America This Week, January 12, 2024: "Presidents, the Most Dangerous Game"
2024-01-12 00:30:30
Welcome to America This Week, with Matt Taibbi and Walter Kirn, the national news wrap-up so true, we recommend you stow all sharp objects before reading. <br/><br/><a href="https://www.racket.news/s/america-this-week?utm_medium=podcast">www.racket.news</a>
All right, welcome to America this week, I'm Matt Taibbi.
And I'm Walter Kern.
Walter, how are you?
Good, found out. I don't have a fistula. People who devoutly follow this show will remember that a Canadian dentist diagnosed me during a TV appearance as having a fistula in my lower left jaw. I went to the dentist and told the receptionist I needed an emergency appointment because I'd been diagnosed over TV. And she said, Oh, you're like that guy on HGTV who somebody saw and wrote in and said, I think you have cancer.
And he did.
Helpfully, she said.
Yeah, exactly, thanks man. So Matt, I want you to cough away, I want to hear your all. Your bronchial spasms amplified. And then we can get a helpful call at the end and find out that you have emphysema.
Well, I can't just do it on command, it's going to have to be spontaneous. I apologize, but if it does come, you know, if there are doctors out there among you, let me know how bad it is, how long I have to live. And I promise I won't kick your ass if it turns out you're wrong.
Right?
I promise nobody will kick your ass.
You're sure it wasn't just the Iowa freezing, as you say, nad nad freezing weather of.
No, I got tested and everything and this, you know, Covid is an unusual disease, it doesn't feel like a regular illness. It feels like a mix of 90 different things. And and they all happen in the first 72 hours. And then it just suddenly the clouds part, and it's like it never happened.
It is the weirdest thing and I don't know, but it happened, it's over.
Glad you're back with us.
Thank you, thank you.
Because this is really the official start of the 2024 presidential campaign.
It is, and it's, it's already, it's already so bizarre.
It's already, there are already so many stories, so many things and themes that we've lived through before that. Let's just say the media, priesthood and the political establishment are pretending have not happened before, but they're trying it again.
With Nikki Haley and Rhonda Santos, this is like the umpteenth time that we've been sold on. This idea that somebody is on the Republican side is actually going to somehow unseat Trump at the last minute. That there's going to be a surge of sort of organic support that knocks Trump off the GOP ballot. So that we never have to deal with them again. I mean, it was, it was literally funny. I felt bad for for Jake Tapper watching him moderate that bizarre discussion between Nikki Haley and Rhonda Santos last night. First of all, was it clear to you that the two of them really do dislike each other? the Santos and Haley?
I'm usually not a Rachel Maddow fan, but she said they clearly hate each other and that's spot on. There was just they seized with mutual hostility and disdain.
What's weird is I think they hate each other because they're so similar.
They're vying for the same, you know, archetypal spot. And so, because two bodies can't occupy the same space, according to Isaac Newton, they repel each other.
And I always thought that Desantis problem was that he would never, he would never be able to be likable enough in any election. I mean, I hate cliches like this, but it's a reality. In presidential campaigns like this, audiences have to feel some kind of warmth emanating from the candidate, they have to be able to connect with them on some simple emotional level.
DESantis always seemed to me very tough to access for an ordinary person. But on stage, next to the next Nikki Haley, he was like, Richard Simmons, my god.
She, she is, she is the frostiest, most unlikable person, politician you could possibly imagine. I mean, she, she sat there and that, I guess we're not supposed to talk about how, how female politicians dress. But she, she looked like she.
She was giving off this vibe like she didn't want to talk to anybody, she would rather be anyplace else. But in that one spot, she hated him, she hated the audience, she hated Jake Tapper.
It was there was this thing that just emanated from her that somehow made Ron DeSantis likable. It was like a magic trick I never thought would have been possible, like, if Penn and Teller did that trick, I would. I would have thought that was like the masterpiece of their career.
So one one line she used last night, or one idea which I found particularly apt in terms of what I dislike about her. I guess I just came out and said, it was when she said, Ron, you're jealous because the donors that used to support you have all come to me.
And I got the sense that that other place she'd rather be is with her donors. The people with whom she feels, the people with whom she feels most comfortable. Enjoys the finest food at the most relaxed conversation, and it was just a pure Junior High lunchroom move. You know, everybody at my table now, Ron, I know why you hate me, don't hate me because I'm beautiful. To donors.
Do they not know how that goes over with the people who actually matter in this situation?
The voters of Iowa in particular, of Iowa in particular. Yeah, so the thing that happened last night to me was that these two very similar characters called each other liars. Over and over, disdained each other. Personally, as you say, gave off ice cold vibes and pretty much convinced me that whatever stratagems are in the works, their history. I did not see a an insurgent candidate there, I saw two quite inert.
Political figures from the 1980s or something standing side by side, and, you know, as you say, wishing they could be anywhere else. Without any consciousness of what was going on in their own party and with the presumptive leader of their party, Donald Trump.
It's not like they're all running in the same universe. Even Trump talks about entirely different things in a different way, he gives a different account of where America is.
I didn't really even get the sense that they feel they're running in any critical period. They were very.
I don't know normal in their in their estimation of what needs to be done, government needs to get smaller, we have to project strength, et cetera, et cetera. And they went down the Republican checklist like they were right.
This could have been, this could have been 1996.
Yeah, right, yeah, they could have been, Bob Dole could have been on that stage.
And for a man, a man who did project warmth now that I think about it in comparison.
Compared to them.
Yeah, yeah.
And we used to joke about how, you know, I just remember all those pornographic jokes about Bob Dole and hookers with pen marks in the back of their Never. I'm not going to go there. But he was considered like a legendarily hard to embrace candidate. And compared to these two, I mean, he, he would elap the field, but basically he. They were talking about the same stuff that Republicans have been talking, sort of establishment Republicans have been talking about forever.
And the stuff that wasn't that were just these really sort of dime store kind of insults. Ron's lying because Ron's losing. Uh, you're so desperate, you're just so desperate. Go to my website, desantislies..com. How many times does she say that?
16.
Somebody counted.
Somebody counted, Yeah, I mean, it's like a drinking game.
Well, no, she used the term drinking game. she said. Uh, to the Drake, University students don't start a drinking game based on. How did she really run Ron DESantis's lies? Because you'll be over served by the end of the evening.
Um, so that's a bad thing.
Yeah, I, I. I kept a list of some of her zingers.
Um, Ron had one particularly awkward singer. He said, that she was an expert in ballistic podiatry, in other words, shooting yourself in the foot. Hardy, har, har.
Um, that was stick podiatry.
Yeah, yeah, it was so rehearsed. I mean, dude, it was so latin. Um, uh, it's hard to pronounce unless you've rehearsed, though.
Ballistic podiatry? Yep.
Yep, so so here's some things. She said. She blamed him for spending too much on his campaign. Her, her fiercest criticism of the night was for his campaign, saying that it had wasted money. Um, that was really her, her, her most, uh, acute charge against Ron that he'd wasted donors money.
Um, she, quote, stayed in residence inns. um, I guess that portrays her as a person of the people.
Um, I mean, if she stayed at a nightstand, I'd be impressed, but right?
A residence in Yeah.
Yeah, I had a super eight motel with, you know, I don't know exactly, I'm sorry.
I'm, I'm a red roof in where all the perversions go on, according to Glitter. Um, but she asked if he's wasted so much money on his campaign, how is he going to handle the economy? Um, boy, it was that, um, uh. She pointed out that it's taxpayer money, not your money, when the government spends money. Um, no Republicans ever said that.
She says It's time for a new, generational leader who's going to make America proud again. Um, so she's Mapa, not MAGa. Make America proud again. She's portraying herself as young that that seemed to be part of her pitch, even though, you know, the Santas is young, too.
Um, how old is she?
That age, that certain age. In novels, in Henry James novels, they would call her a.
Woman A woman of a certain age, right?
Um, it's really hard to tell. 51 Okay, well, she Republican candidates clothing store, which makes you look 51 no matter how old you are.
See, I would have guessed, I would have guessed 65, and I didn't think she looked bad, but it's just she's not 65. No, no, she's 51..
She really is.
She, she really is.
I guess that that was a number off the top of my head.
Really.
Yeah, so she's dressing her age just exactly bullseye.
Right, I mean, it's, it's that, it's that costume that's been handed down from Republican candidate to Republican candidate over the years. That just adds years and kind of frost your demeanor, you know?
Lest anyone accused me of sexism, though I accused, or I made fun of Ron DESantis's outfit too. On Twitter last night, I said, Yeah. He reminded me of people I used to debate in Minnesota during regional debate tournaments who wore clip on ties.
Uh, his tie looks like a clip on, even though I'm sure it's knotted. Uh he, he, he. He did look like he was a little bit in Sunday school to me. Uh, he, he, he's got. He's got that kind of bad youthfulness, you know?
Yeah, he was, he was a little sunnier than normal, that's true. I think when, when Desantis is feeling good, he's hostile.
Um, and he looks down on people. You know, when he's really, you know, feeling in charge, when he's when he's feeling like he's got he's got, you know, a ways to gain in the race. Then he starts being nice and, um, ingratiating. And it wasn't terrible, I have to say yesterday. Between the two of them, he came off as like the.
The less loathsome, I would say.
Yeah, yeah, I, I, I. I think he won the debate personally. Um, though, I don't know that it matters on, not that it matters, and I can't say on what grounds. Um, because, uh, you know, as we said, it was just Republican truisms thrown back and forth. The only daylight I saw between them was on Ukraine.
Um, she's a pretty, she's a pretty hard liner. As far as support for Ukraine, and Ron seems to be backing off a bit. Um, she, her, her, her. Only proviso in terms of support for Ukraine is that we not send them cash, only weapons. Um, because you don't know where cash goes, uh.
You said, I don't think we should send cash to any country.
That did you see? Jake Tapper? Sort of, um.
Instead of asking each, almost in an encouraging way, like, Hey, are you going to build a wall? or what?
Why was he doing that?
I I think he wanted to show that, hey, these these two are just like Trump, except they're not him.
Right?
Right?
Trying to put them in a corner with that wall business.
Well, they, uh, they both kind of went beyond that. If I remember correctly, it was it was some really bizarre answer on both of their part. Like one of them said yes and the other one said something like, yes. And then I'm going to add, like, you know, a force of storm troopers that will patrol the border forever, I don't know.
It was bizarre, um, but it was. It was just very strange to see Jake Tapper, who I don't have really have anything against Jake. I think I think Jake has tried, uh, harder than most in his job in the last eight years. To, um, to not be a complete, you know? Um, who's the character I'm looking for? the one that was, uh, played by Andy Griffith in that famous movie? Uh? Facing the crowd, facing the crowd, he's he, he's. He's been trying not to be that, like, you know, 100 propaganda organ kind of commentator for a while now. I think I think he got a little freaked out by something in the middle of the Trump years.
Um, but it was. It was still a little weird to see him, kind of in an ingratiating way. Ask about the wall, like, you know, sort of hoping that they would go there. Uh, see, Republicans, you can have somebody with the same views as Donald Trump. it's just it wouldn't be Trump.
Well, I've got my Nikki checklist here. Sorry, uh, she did try to do something gender wise that no man would dare. Um, she said, These fellas don't know how to talk about abortion, so she did two things.
He used fella, you know, she's at one at once, the immigrant to America, she points that out, or as part of an immigrant family, but she's also just another Southern gal. Um, and and these fellas don't know talk, know how to talk about abortion. Was, you know, casting Ron as just another one in a group, you know, as if he'd said, These gals don't know how to talk about war. Something. Um, so it's clear that she's trying to split off, you know, female voters on the basis of their femininity.
But is her position on abortion markedly different than the others?
Uh, not sure. uh, Florida has a Florida actually has a um time limit on abortions, as I understand it. That even Trump last night, in his uh, solo town hall with Uh, Brett Bear criticized, uh. Trump staked out a kind of reasonable and, um, I don't know, uh, moderate position on abortion for a Republican last night.
Um, uh, so Ron's being kind of isolated as the ultra pro-life guy. By by both, um, but oh. And she said about Ukraine, this is about preventing war. It's always been about preventing war. Our support group, um, uh, the war that, you know, the supposedly depleted and on its knees and led by a man who might be dead. Russia is going to wage across eastern Europe as soon as he gets his way in Ukraine. I'm still not understanding that, but I guess we're there just as we, just as we're in the Middle East. So we can fight them there rather than here. Uh, we're in Ukraine to fight them there rather than in Poland, the Baltics, I guess.
You can just interchange the country, and, you know, right?
And that's that, and that's really it's all plug and play. And you know, when you think about Trump's appeal in the Republican Party, or among Conservatives or whatever, I think it might be half that. He makes up his own similes, you know, that he, that, that, that he actually does he, yeah, he, he. He invents his imagery rather than just pulls it from some kind of, you know, ai, uh, and uh, you say, Boy does he. Did you see evidence of that when you were in Iowa?
I mean, I, you know, I, I was. I've probably covered 30 Trump speeches over the years at differing times. And Sioux, Center, Iowa, over the weekend to catch Trump his address there. The runtime on that address was was an hour and 48 minutes, which if you've covered campaigns, that's an eternity for a stump speech. I mean, that's that's long. Even if you figure in all the people who introduced, all the people who introduced, the people who introduced the candidate. You never, you almost never get over an hour, even if you include all those people. Trump's own speech was an hour 48, all right?
And what's significant about that? And this is something that that, uh, I caught, uh. From the first time I saw him in the 2015 2016 cycle is that he gives off this vibe. I like, he loves this shit, he loves being out there, he really enjoys playing to the crowd.
He likes interacting with them, people yell things at him, He engages. Sometimes people yell hostile things at him. He knows when to ignore those folks. He's like a good comedian, like good comedians know how to go in and feel out the crowd.
But he, he loves doing it, he and he has a million stories that he likes to share, and some of them are. They're just hilarious. I mean, there's no way around it, they're completely original.
They're bizarre, uh, they're often insulting, like, He, you know, I, I called it, you know, Triumph, the comic insult, president Um mode. He was definitely there last weekend.
He really doesn't like Ron DeSantis, even though Desantis is kind of a non-factor for him. Polling wise, I think Trump is going to enjoy kind of going back in time and stepping on his corpse, even if he's out of the race. Still. Um, Nikki Haley, he went after her half a dozen times, called her a bird brain.
Um, you know, uh, saying she was in the pockets of the of the open borders, you know, people.
And she's a globalist.
She's, she's, she likes, she likes the globe. Uh, it was totally just Jeff Spicoli, you know? That scene where he goes in and and Mr. Hand is doesn't want to let them in class. And Sean Penn is like, This is U.S. history.
I knew it, I saw the globe like it was that exact line. But he does these amazing routines. I mean, have you have you seen the the Joe? Biden can't find the exit shtick that he does?
Where he faces the back of the stage and he sort of walks around like he's blind and.
It's amazing, I've never seen it in person, yeah.
Um kind of a Marceau routine.
Right, right, so Trump doesn't do voices, at least not well, right? Like sometimes he'll, right, he'll do like a whiny voice to represent the media or some other group he doesn't like.
He has to watch that. That's how he got in trouble for supposedly making fun of disabled people.
Right, the Saras Kovalevsky thing, which, uh, I, by the way, I never bought that alternative explanation. Um, but there may be something to the fact that he actually does do that all the time. He, he has a tendency to make that same gesture a lot. Um, but this whole shtick that he does with Biden not being able to find the exit, it's, it's like the funniest thing.
Like, there's, there's no comedian in America who's doing something as funny as this, um.
Jackie Green just died, Rickles is not with us. Um, uh, yeah, you see the other thing about Trump, you know? And I'm just going to go for it. Because whenever I show affection for his UM skills as an insult comic or a performer, um, I'm accused of, you know, being a Putinite. Um, now I just love that, so I'm going to do a little of it, uh.
He, he, admits to less than noble, um, less than noble emotions and motives, which the others will not. You know? He says. Yeah, I can't wait to, you know, grind them to dust or take revenge, or, you know, they betrayed me and I'm going to get them back. You know, the the other people on Republican side never admit to having human feelings, especially this latest to the the. The ones that's come down to. Um, and it's like two different species, and I think it's going to. It's going to be weird if we ever see them together. Because, uh, you know, with his strange, uh apprentice, uh bread knowledge of TV and performance and drama, uh. Trump May, for some reason, suddenly decided to bait the two of them. And and that's going to be like some long postponed, you know, title match.
Uh, can you imagine when Trump finally agrees to debate what will happen? I mean, he'll have every American watching. And in a in a primary debate, and, uh, I, I. It won't go well. For those who wish you were on stage, you know, supposedly wish you were on stage with them.
I predict, uh, it never, it never does. I mean, we saw this in again, we saw this in the 2015 2016 cycle. The the various politicians who on that gigantic slate of candidates, in that ridiculous race, they pick two strategies for dealing with Trump. One was the high road, and those who picked the high road fared really badly. If you remember, remember Jeb Bush, uh. His campaign basically imploded when he. He tried to, uh. Ignore the Donald Trump's insults about his mother by saying, My mother is the strongest woman I've ever known. And Trump interrupts and says, Why isn't she running?
And that was it Jeb was done in that moment, there were there, there was no longer any campaign. But then the some of the others tried to do like antics, you know, uh, like throwing water. Or they, you know, put out videos of, you know, shooting the tax code or whatever. It was. Um, and it just didn't work. Like, you know, Trump's does this stuff off the cuff.
I mean, there was an incredibly funny moment. Emily caught this, I didn't, I didn't even catch it at first.
Trump takes this whole idea of Rhonda Sanctimonious very seriously, like he loves the fact that he's given Rhonda Santas this name. The full name is Florida Governor. Rhonda Sanctimonious. the only acceptable abbreviation is Rhonda sanctus. Uh, apparently I haven't been able to find the clip, but apparently Fox accidentally introduced him as Ron Florida governor.
Rhonda Sanctus. And Trump has just been in seventh heaven ever since that happened. Anyway, he's telling this story. And in the middle of the story, some fan of Trump's yells out, Um, Rhonda snooze fest and. And Trump immediately looks at the guy and he goes, No, it's it's the sanctimonious, actually.
Like, like, he can't even let his own fan have fun about it. But it was, it was so like, uh, it was so perfectly like, um, in tune as a as a comic, like, that's exactly what that person would do. Uh, in that moment, uh, it was, it was, yeah.
v1.0.0.260408-1-a910ba6_os