Eric Dane

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Padman.

Hi. Hi.

You're in the middle of a giggle.

I was laughing because I just opened our paper that says who we're doing this intro for and the credits and stuff, and gives us a refresher. And it just says, Eric Dane is an actor, period.

Yeah, Rob really phoned in this description.

It was Emma.

Emma.

Oh, it was Emma. Yeah, it was Emma. Let's give her credit and let's be mad at her. Now. she didn't phone in because I'll never say anything disparaging about Emma, but, Rob, he of course is.

Yes, most importantly.

We have a very funny beginning of our friendship.

Yeah, it was tumultuous.

It really was. We had a very tumultuous start, but we love each other so much in the nicest way. But of course, you know Eric Dane as, well, from Grey's Anatomy as McSteamy.

And boy is he, he's still steamy.

Oh, also Easter egg, he was one of the two handsome guests that Monica was dealing with the height of her.

My peel.

Your peel.

God, that was embarrassing.

And this was the one that we agreed. I should have just brought it up. Yes. Because I know him well enough. Yes.

Did he ever bring it up?

Maybe if he's listening now, he's finding out for the first time that you were wrestling with a peel.

Eric, I had a peel that day.

She doesn't normally cover her chin that much when she's talking.

And I normally don't have my face falling off.

Well, he's like, I really like that, Monica gal. She always covered her face when she spoke, which is interesting.

Okay, I have a question. If he had texted you and said, hey, what was going on with Monica's face? Would you ever tell me? Knowing the way, we've been talking about it and it's been out in the open.

Probably not. I don't know how that would make you feel. That would be helpful to you at all. But I can tell you, honestly, there was no such text. In fact, I've never, ever received a text that asks what was going on with your looks.

wrong with their face. You've said that people have texted that.

They want to hook up with you.

Yeah.

Yes. So that. But I'm not doing that anymore, though. I know. Yeah.

You love them.

All right, love you. Everyone. enjoy, Eric Dane.

He's an armchair expert.

He's an armchair expert.

He's an armchair expert.

Hi, pal.

I swear to God, I was about 14 seconds away from texting you this morning when you texted me.

Oh, really?

Oh!

Good to see you.

Good to see you too. I really like this. Thank you. Yeah, you look very handsome. So great to see you, man.

Have you been offered all the drinks and everything?

I have this thing, which is unreal.

Cream top.

I don't know what that is. What kind of alien fuckery is that? It's really good.

Very sexual title, isn't it? Cream top?

Cream top. Yeah.

God bless him for naming it that. What are we driving? We're driving a matte black Beemer SUV.

I was gonna bring the Grand National.

When did you get that?

I got it last year. Had 19,000 original miles on it. It was in exquisite condition. I put a great suspension in it. Oh, sure.

Be cool radiator, probably.

Rebuilt the motor, redid the exhaust. Oh, boy.

Oh, I must see this. Why didn't you drive that? I don't know. I don't know. This feels very disrespectful to me.

I was like, does Dax want to see this car? Of course! Jesus, man, it's so beautiful.

I don't know if you know Chris Pine, but I didn't know him. In fact, I had run into him twice and I had this whole story that he didn't like me, right? So then we interviewed him a few weeks ago and he rolled up in a 69 911 green. Oof. And I was like, oh, this is gonna cut through everything.

We might've gone for a ride.

We might've gone for a ride. We might've also had to get out one of my stupid cars and gone for like a cruise. I can't believe you didn't drive it, but I'm gonna get past it.

By the way, we've known each other for 300 years. There'll be a time when we both get in that car together.

Are you still in the same house? I last visited you?

Yeah.

Is there a garage there?

No, it's just out in the elements.

So you and I could go anywhere today.

We could, let's go.

I almost feel like we're gonna have a sex scene and we need to have a boundaries conversation.

Is Monica the intimacy coordinator? I love that, I would love to do that.

Well, I am ultimately, because I edit the show. I think we should go places and if you want things cut out, you tell me.

You know, you might be inclined to think like, oh, it's easier when I interview friends, but it's actually harder.

I don't know, you're awfully good at this. I told you this when you started. I'm like, you're really good at this. So I'm confident that today is gonna go smooth on. this little ride we go on.

But when you're really good friends with somebody, we know a lot of stuff about each other.

Right, what do we discuss?

Yeah, and I don't really know what anyone's comfort level is in public. You know, I had Downey on. It's like, where are we gonna go? All the way?

All the way.

Also, comfort levels change throughout time. One time I brought up that Dax had an orgy and pooped and he got so mad that I brought it up, even though he brought it up.

some months before. Oh, I bring it up.

So it can be testy.

Yeah.

It's scary out there.

Eric's definitely heard that story.

I don't think I have, but I don't know if we need to revisit that one.

It might come up organically, I don't know.

It certainly did on the day.

So, dude, the last time I was here, your yard was a radio-controlled car track. Yes. That's how long ago it was.

It was a dust bowl. What do you think of the progress?

I think it's beautiful. I love this house.

Thank you. I love where you live. It's got so much style and character, but you have a lot of style. I think what would be really amusing for people to hear is the birth of our relationship.

Oh, my God, okay.

Because these are my favorite kinds of relationships. Do you share this?

Let's go. We've discussed this and we've laughed about it. Do you want to start, or should I?

Go ahead, I'd love to hear your perspective.

Dax and I had sort of a contentious beginning. Love it. We were at a meeting at a friend's house, somebody's living room.

A nice house.

An AA meeting, can we say that? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, we're both sober, we're both public about that.

It wasn't a business meeting, it was an AA meeting.

We were in an AA meeting. That actually helps the story. So we're at an AA meeting in a very nice house in Bel Air, very civil environment. And somebody I brought to the meeting with me was sharing and just did not stop, was droning on. And there's a timer and Dax's friend, his sponsee actually, who I didn't know.

Can I already say, you're being very generous about your telling already. Okay, that's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm impressed with this.

Okay, so his sponsee was running the timer and he kept resetting the timer to like 15 seconds. every time this guy would go over. And the timer went off like seven times.

He was letting him continue.

Yeah. And this may be our first disagreement on the history, but I think he was more setting, like a good 30 to a minute. Okay. But regardless.

Okay, but this guy was droning on. Right, right. And he did not pay attention to the timer, to the point where I was even like, dude, that timer bell is for you.

You have the anxiety of having brought a new person to that meeting, which is kind of insular.

And, by the way, I brought a person who probably shouldn't have been at that meeting. Okay.

But I'm stressed for you.

I'm already in the hole a little bit, right?

Your intel, yeah.

I was not in the best space.

Sure. Let's just say that.

So let me remember where you guys are.

I may not even have been sober at the time.

That's why you're there.

And this poor kid buzzes the buzzer one more time. And I said, if you buzz that buzzer one more time, dude, I'm gonna stick it up your ass.

He said, I'm gonna throw you in that fucking candle. There was an enormous candle. Yeah, this is how civil the-.

I'm gonna throw you in the candle. What a threat.

That's how civil this meeting was, that there was a very expensive multi-wick candle burning in the middle.

Yeah, so I was gonna set him ablaze with a candle. Got it. And Dax stands up and points at me and points outside. And I'm like, okay, motherfucker, let's go.

This has been brewing, to be honest.

It's been brewing.

I don't know why we had this thing. Do you remember? Yeah. You can provide that backstory. I'll just continue on with this.

You have a shared sponsor.

We have a shared sponsor. He gets in between us. He's like, what the fuck is going on?

You guys are about to fight in the driveway of our host's home. Right. I don't go outside to talk. It was on. We were gonna fight at this AHA meeting.

And I gotta be honest with you, Dax probably would have fucked. It would have been a drudging. Really? Yes, a drubbing.

A drubbing? Again, very generous of you to say. Do you fight?

I mean, I can fight, but Dax is a unit. He wants to fight. This guy looks for fights.

Exactly, well, yes.

Look, man, I have no notes. That was such a generous retelling of it.

Pepper in some stuff.

Yeah, I'm gonna throw you in the candle. I think I said outside, motherfucker. And we got outside, and again, we're at someone's house who I love and want to respect me. For sure. His opinion of me is very important.

I just have to ask you. Yeah. Were we about to fight?

Oh, I was, yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

I didn't know. I thought we were just going outside to have words.

Oh, you did.

Oh, see. Well, look, dude, you're a big motherfucker. We would have scrapped a little bit. But I'm not going out to argue until you throw the first punch. It's on.

Oh, Jesus. Well, cooler heads prevail.

Despite that, over time, I start falling in love with you. It's the craziest, and I can almost remember a couple of the moments where it happened. You came in one time and you had a share. that was so fucking humble and honest, and I relate so much to you. Come to find out.

You acknowledged something I said in your share and you actually proclaimed to the group. You said, you know, I hated you for so long, but I've come to really love you. And I think I might have returned the favor in the middle of the room.

Which must have been a relief for all the other going. Oh, no. For everybody else, right?

Because they're waiting for one, too. They're like, a storm is brewing.

I mean, how funny, we obviously showed up the following week and just rolled past that whole thing. I know. I'd be bad at putting a time on that. Do you think that was 10 years ago? For sure.

Yeah, humbling experience.

I want to almost compare it to like gambling addiction. It's been explained to me that these guys who get really deep in the hole, at the end of their addiction, they're not trying to win. They just have a fantasy of, they just want to get back to zero. And it's almost like having a lot of time and going out, it becomes this huge thing over you. Like, will I ever have that again?

Trying to get back to that number?

Yes, you and I were never trying to get to that big number, which is how we got there. But then this paradigm shifts where now you're trying to get back to this number and hope that you can exceed it and then find some freedom again.

And you're not going to experience the freedom until you get to that number. In my case, it was like, I have to wait nine years to experience that freedom again.

Or even if I'm being dead honest, there was some self-esteem I got from having been someone at that meeting who had some amount of time. I'm sure that led to some of my judgment of you early on. To let go of. that is really interesting and hard.

Because you know, it's interesting. The first time we actually met, I had given you a ride home and I had just gotten a new car. And when you jumped in the car and you were like, ooh, that new car smell. And we started discussing cars. And then you shared with me, do you still journal every day?

Do you remember? I went and got your motorcycle for you?

The Ducati?

Yeah, you had a hyper motor. That's right. That needed to get picked up at Beverly Hills Ducati. And I was like, yeah, I'll go do that. That might've been the beginning.

I was not in any right state of mind, Dax.

Yeah, and I just remember, I can be very honest. I felt kind of insulted. Like God, I'm somehow became this guy's errand boy. Like I have his motorcycle.

Or taken advantage of, which is your issue.

Big trigger, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Long story short, I adore you. I adore you too.

And I've had some of my kind of favorite moments in sobriety, calling you and then going over to your house and shooting the shit. And that's the crazy gift. How do I articulate this? Caring about someone and wanting someone to do well is a foreign feeling for me. And I went from somehow seeing that you were an adversary that was gonna attack me, that I needed to fight, to someone I deeply rooted for and wanted to win.

Me too. And I can't say that about everybody. You were an anomaly. I typically get along with everybody, but I don't root for everybody.

Yeah, right, that's hard.

You're somebody I really root for. In all your successes, I've genuinely gotten a warm feeling from it.

But in these trips to your house, weirdly, as much as I knew your sobriety story, I didn't know your life story. And I really remember leaving one time thinking, oh man, my friend has had such a ride.

Correct my memory. Did you grow up in the same sort of dynamic that I did, where I didn't really have a father figure or somebody to model male behavior?

A thousand percent. So my dad left at three and I had an older brother. That was helpful. But I was really looking around at the other boys and going, oh fuck, what are they doing? Oh, they're jumping bikes.

I always had fear surrounding connecting with other guys, boys, then young men, and then men. It was always something that was difficult for me to do, to establish that connection. My father passed away when I was seven. I think it's because I never had anybody to show me how to interact with people of the same sex.

When you're really searching and trying to claim your masculinity because it wasn't passed on to you, I just think it sets up a kind of precarious situation.

Precarious is a good word.

The specific part of your story that I heard that broke my heart and continues to break my heart, for you is the notion that you were encouraged to be strong and brave.

Let me bring Monica up to speed. So my mother woke me up. I was seven years old. She woke me up at like five in the morning, hysterically crying. So already I was terrified.

Like anger?

Tears, anger, frustration, rage, you name it. And I made some April Fool's joke. And I don't think I slept, but I went back into my room. And my father passed away from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.

Oh boy.

Just to add extra trauma to it.

Abandonment.

But also my grandmother, who we lived with, who was a major maternal influence in my life, died of an aneurysm four months later.

Oof.

Seven was difficult to say the least, but I also think it set the tone for the next. however many years I've been around. I'm still dealing with it to some degree.

Yeah, well, loss is inevitable. It can happen at any moment, will happen at any moment. That's what it teaches you when you're a kid.

It teaches you, oh, don't really trust anything. Everything can go away in a second.

Exactly, nothing's stable.

Yeah, correct. And the other shoe's always gonna drop.

You just don't know when, but it is happening.

And I was old enough. I remember my father very well. I loved my father. He took me fishing. I remember the last time I saw him, I was at soccer practice.

Was he a big, handsome dude like you?

He was handsome in his own way, I think. He was more of an artistic.

Bohemian?

Yeah, he was an architect.

So smart, but really creative.

Yeah.

The notion that you had to compartmentalize.

You couldn't be a kid.

No, because everybody around me was telling me, you're the man of the house now.

Well, and you've got to protect mom now. That really resonates of being hyper aware. I've got to act a certain way for mom. She's now my gal. I'm now responsible.

But I don't have any idea how to do that.

I can barely get myself ready for school. But I'm now in charge of this person's emotions. But I just remember hearing that in your living room and literally wanting to hug you and apologize that I would have ever been a force again in your life. that's threatening you.

We actually may have had that moment.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just incredibly sad and touching. What happens to you in school? Do you start acting out any weird way?

I start trying really hard to be friends with people. And as an alcoholic, somebody who deals with alcoholism, I was a chameleon. I was whatever I thought you wanted me to be. I overcompensated in a lot of ways.

Oh man, I love you. You're such a sweet boy under all those muscles.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I mean, kettle black.

I know it's comical how similar we are.

Do you have brothers and sisters?

I have a younger brother, Sean. He was two, so it didn't really affect him. But I'm not so sure. I don't believe in big T, little T.

What's big, T, little T?

Like big trauma, little trauma.

Yeah, I agree.

I think people aren't all that unique and we all experience sort of the similar feelings at different levels of intensity. But the same feelings surround the circumstances.

Yeah, but when you're feeling like a chameleon, I guess, did you have any sense of, cause. you know, this is a character defect. Like this is how I've come to admit that I am culpable in a lot of this. Which is like, I had a sense of justice and I felt like what was happening to me was unjust at times. And I felt entitled to a lot of stuff.

I did too. Okay, that's comforting. I felt like the world took something from me and I was owed.

Yeah, it really loosened up my morals.

Mine too.

Yeah, sometimes I couldn't even locate them. They got so loose.

Oh, my God, that's so funny.

So your ride through school, you moved to high schools midway.

I did. This was actually good for me because I was a really great water polo player. And that's all I wanted to do. The school I went to, the team absolutely sucked. We moved districts.

And now you guys were competitive and you won matches. Yeah. Did you have fantasies of going and playing in college? I did.

I didn't have the grades, though.

It's so interesting because you're so fucking smart. What was happening academically?

Academically, I just couldn't focus and settle down and I didn't have great study habits. I always tested well, but that'll only carry you so far.

And when did you start experimenting with stuff?

Junior year. It was marijuana at lunchtime.

Wow, and you chose to try it at school for the first time.

Oh yeah. So my water polo season ended early, which doesn't imply that we made it very far.

I gotcha. Prematurely.

Not deep into the post-season.

And I had to fill a fifth period elective, so I took drama because I knew the gal who was in charge of attendance and I could just leave school at lunch every day.

Oh, beautiful.

Great plan. I got into smoking marijuana, didn't really like it, but the people I was hanging with really enjoyed it. So I did what they did.

Well, it's a turnkey group of friends.

Oh yeah.

I think people underestimate that part of it.

Yeah, I just jumped into a team that had already been together for a long time.

Us drug addicts will take anybody as long as you wanna party. Right. Yeah, yeah. You must have seen American Movie, that great documentary.

No, what is it?

About Mark Borchardt, he's making horror movies in Milwaukee, this is like 20-year-old doc, it was the greatest doc ever.

Oh yeah, I think I did see that.

And Mike Shank was his buddy and he was sober, but he was addicted to scratch-offs. Yeah. He's explaining why he became friends with Mark Borchardt, Mike Shank is, and he goes, I used to really like to drink vodka and I always wanted to drink a lot of vodka and no one really wanted to. That meant Mark, he was like a wild dog, he always wanted to drink vodka. And that was it, that's the foundation and I totally relate to it.

Whatever you're doing, if we're doing that, we're buddies.

I'm sure you and I have hung out with some hit stars.

I had a moment of clarity, I went to this guy's house, well, I mean, are we being totally honest? I went to the dealer's house to pick up whatever it was I was picking up. He's sitting there and I'm in this house, it looks like the fucking Sanford and Sons. The living room? No, their garage, not even their living room.

Care package.

Care package. And there's stuff on this table. and he points to this stuff and he's like, hey, you wanna try this? And I stop and I go, wow, I've made the big times. I have arrived, I am in this absolute salvage yard and this guy's offering me a substance off something that I don't know what it is.

You just learned the name of it.

I'm about to do it.

Yeah, yeah, cause fuck it. It's preferable to how I feel.

Were you already successful at that time? Yeah. That complicates it too. Somebody could see me walk in and out of here.

But also it's just like, I have some great friends and I've managed to surround myself with people who are very smart and successful and really great people, and I'm sitting there going like, what am I doing here?

Watching yourself from above yourself?

Yeah.

That's me like walking into random crack houses in Detroit. Look at this guy. go, he seems to not be afraid at all, but I'm terrified up here.

Oh, my God.

Okay, so weed wasn't my first thing, but I was late in it cause my dad was an alcoholic and I was not ever gonna drink. So I did not try it till much later than I think all my friends did. But in 11th grade, I decided I'm gonna drink. And I remember getting three beers out of my fridge and I really did have that moment where I was like, oh, this is exactly what I've been looking for.

How do I stay this way for the rest of my life? That's the function of addiction right there.

So how old were you when you got sober the first time? You must have been 26..

That's young.

Monica, that was part of my rationale for picking up was like, I got sober when I was young, maybe I'm not an alcoholic. Yeah.

Who were we just interviewing? that had been sober, since they were a kid?

Bobby Lee.

Bobby Lee. He had done a really long stretch, from like 16 years old till 30.. I'm more impressed by those dudes than anyone else. I say dudes, I mean women as well, but I go to all men's meeting just to clarify.

Well, look at our friend who broke up our scuffle.

Impossible to me.

18, 19 years old and never looked back.

Yeah, it's impressive. Cause the voice in my head's like, well, you were much different back then. You were scared a lot and you had a lot of discomfort, and all these reasons why I'm now, magically, a different human being.

It's gonna be different. this time. You seem like a gentleman. I'm in a different station in life. We're not gonna get off the rails with this.

About to do a drug. you just learned the name of. Oh God. Okay, so somehow, though, this drama class, is this what leads to you doing the Arthur Miller play?

Yeah, I played Joe Keller in All My Sons. That was another moment where I was like, I love this, how do I do this for the rest of my life? That's a good one.

Right. And so did you immediately think that's the goal and not the water polo?

Oh, I pivoted real quick. Cause, water polo was over. It was.

Cause you weren't gonna go to college.

I wasn't gonna go to college and play water polo.

Again, shocking to me. I think you're very, very, very smart.

Well, thanks. College is probably something I would do well in right now. Yeah. At 51..

Maybe it's time.

Well, our friend, Eric.

You know Eric. Yeah. Eric goes to UCLA extension class.

He takes, like microbiology and all this.

Oh my God. That's amazing.

Of course he does, but it's cool.

By the way, Eric's another guy. This is what I'm saying. my favorite people are people I started out, not liking. I hated Eric when I met him. Did you really?

Oh my God. He's like one of your best friends.

Yeah, I couldn't love him more. He's so goddamn flawed and he's just my favorite person alive.

Talk about sweet underneath.

Yeah, he's a sweetheart. I like him.

We're all kind of sweet turns out.

Despite the rough exterior and hard to crack.

So you moved to LA quick, couple years out of high school. You move in 93?.

92, 93.

Okay, what was happening in the year between? Because I moved out here two years after I graduated high school.

So I had a manager that managed a couple people in San Francisco that would hold these intensive workshops and bring casting directors from LA, legit people to come help run these workshops. And eventually she moved me to Los Angeles.

The manager did?

Yeah, little known fact, Alicia Silverstone and I went to high school together. Oh, you did? We moved down to LA together.

No.

Whoa. She was a freshman, I was a senior and we lived in the same house with this manager, who was actually really great. At 19,. I couldn't appreciate it. All I wanted to do was party.

So what year did she do Clueless?

She actually started working pretty fast. I wanna say two, three years after we moved down here.

And it just took off for her.

I was her like minder on a Pizza Hut commercial. You were. I was. I was sent to be the adult in the room. Which is wild.

By the way, I would have never known this about you, but I have such great envy. now. Some of the roles you picked up in the early years, which is you are on Saved by the Bell. This would have been a dream. I was like at home.

It was my first job.

I liked the show a ton. I would have been so excited to be on it.

I wasn't that familiar with the show, but I remember there was kind of a weird experience on that. I learned something very valuable on that set. We did some take, and I think I was getting hit by a volleyball and falling out of frame. And I didn't like the way that I had done it. And I yelled, cut, cut, cut, cut.

Oh. Oh.

And this director, I swear to God, he had an ascot on. He pulls me aside, and he's like, listen, I'm the only one that's allowed to say cut on this set.

Eric, I did the exact same thing. No, you didn't. And without a paddle, because I had never been in anything. I was on Pond, and there was no action or cut. It just went on for 40 minutes while we're doing the bit.

Yeah. Well, my guy wasn't as nice. He was a little bit more abrasive than Steve.

Well, if he knew he had to spend another three months with you, maybe he would have. Right. Who was in the scene? Was Zach Morris in the scene?

No, it was Leah Remini. Oh.

Leah Remini. Was this at the beach club?

Yeah, I had the evil volleyball player. Wow. Black shorts and all.

I'll go back.

Legs look great, I bet.

On the water polo. No, terrible legs.

Wow.

Was there a meme? my wife described me as, I look like a man riding a chicken?

Oh my God. Have you seen that meme of that pug standing up, and it's like old guys wearing skinny jeans?

What's your temperament during that period before things really hit? Are you optimistic? Are you a pessimist? What are you thinking?

I'm insecure.

Doubtful that it's gonna happen for you?

Well, that's the one thing I always thought I was going to will into some sort of reality. I always knew that at some point, just outlast everybody, the war of attrition, and I'm gonna get somewhere.

You also did Married With Children and Roseanne. When you went to Married With Children, now here's where I'm really arrogant and cocky and too optimistic. I would've been like, wait till Kelly Bundy meets me.

Dude. I thought we were gonna settle down, picket fence, super high episodic fee, because the episode of Married With Children I did was supposed to be a spinoff, to be a new series.

Oh, my goodness.

Yeah, it was called Radio Free Trumane, and it was about a college radio station, and it was me and this other kid and Keri Russell. No! Yes.

Dude, I love her.

Yeah, she was great even then.

I don't know how you were that age, and just every set I went to, I would've fallen in love with someone there.

I still do.

Yeah, yeah, it's a really romantic setting.

I have a question. Did you feel guilty about leaving your mom?

I didn't. She's a pretty good self-contained unit. She was always good at taking care of herself.

I was excited. I adore my mom, and we have a great relationship. You do? Number one gal. Additionally, I was thrilled, literally what it felt like is, I was about to be single for the first time.

Were you on your own when you moved here? Yeah. So that's the difference. I actually went from one mother to another mother.

Not the manager or girlfriend? The manager.

Oh, the manager. We all lived in the same house. Oh, sure, yeah. I had a soft landing.

But again, I was thrilled about mine. I was like, yeah, I'm only gonna think about me now.

The training wheels are off.

Yeah, and by the way, she didn't ask me to be that way. I just was that way. It's not her fault. My mother was also very stable at this point and married and happy. So I didn't need to be worrying about her, but I did.

I don't know if I felt that way initially. I think eventually I adopted the love for thinking about me. That's something I grew into.

That's one of my favorite subjects. Me. What would make me happy.

Yeah, enough about me. Let's talk about me.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

Okay, so I'm gonna consult my timeline. Charmed is the first time you're a series regular.

Interestingly enough, so I was dating Alyssa.

Congratulations. I imagine, did you also grow up watching Who's the Boss? I did. I was so in love with her.

I had a massive crush on Alyssa when I was like 14.

Oh, just 10?

Well, we broke up. Okay.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

My time on Charmed was. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Was that the first time, though, that you had some economic stability?

I had done a show for ABC called Gideon's Crossing with Andre Brouwer before and we had gone a season. Oh, okay. And then Fox had given me a development deal. So I was already kind of economically, for a 28 year old, pretty comfortable.

Right.

I wasn't wealthy, but I was paying the bills as an actor, which was nice.

Is there a moment you decided to get sober? Was it your first attempt?

It was my first attempt that stuck. I went to a treatment center in Pasadena. I didn't have two nickels to rub together when I was 26 and I went to get sober. And I had some friends who had gone through this place and they had put me on like a state bed. It was like a behavioral modification center.

Oh, that's a good stretch.

It was a good stretch. And I got out and it was a soft landing again. My best friend had gotten sober three months before me. So we all moved into a house together, went to meetings.

So that kind of makes sense. Cause you got sober and then things take off in a kind of substantial way.

A year sober. I think that week I had gotten that TV show. Wow.

The promises only took seven days for you.

Yeah. Things happened pretty quickly after that. I mean, things really took off when I did that episode of Grey's Anatomy.

Oh man.

So what's really funny is I'm reading about that. I guess I didn't realize you had guest starred on the 18th episode of the second season and that the response from the audience was so awesome that they made you a regular for the third season. Yeah. Now that towel scene, I know it inside and out. I've never watched that show.

Yeah, that was something. I just put the towel on and they had some steam coming out. I've put a towel on a million times.

This would be the one.

I was just telling Rob this, that season two of Grey's Anatomy.

Because you were a Grey's.

Huge. That was perfect timing for me. I was in college and loved it.

That show was fun to work on.

That's a very unique experience for you to have had, because you've been at it for a while. You come out of a shower, you put a towel on and now you have a nickname. Yep. And the whole country knows of you.

It was wild, man.

What did that do to you mentally?

It was wild. But also I had been sober for three or four years already. So I had my wits about me and I sort of knew what reality was and what reality wasn't. And I was able to differentiate between the two. And I was able to sort of conceptualize what that was, keep it in its place, enjoy it, dip in every now and again and come back.

Because you relapsed in the middle of that. Oh yeah. But do you think that was part of why?

I think it may have been. It was overwhelming, and I think I just wanted to pretend that it wasn't and that I was comfortable with it. Act like you've been there, but you haven't been there.

In fact, very few humans in the history of mankind have been there.

You haven't been there and it's very hard to sort of digest.

And you're just trying to start acting, the part. You're like, oh, now I'm making some money and now I'll drive this car. Now I'll live here.

You go to like Rome, and you get up on stage and there's 5,000 people screaming and you're like, oh yeah, this is comfortable.

Naturally, this would be happening.

Yeah.

And being known for being so hot. Like what a weird.

So that was weird for me, because I never saw myself as that. It was a real source of self-doubt.

You felt fraudulent in that role?

Yeah, I felt fraudulent. Wow.

Again, back to Chris Pine. This guy had all this judgment on. I saw him in Star Trek. I'm like, of course, this motherfucker is the lead of Star Trek. I'll never be the lead of Star Trek.

My exterior did not match my interior.

God, that's so hard to believe. Even though I didn't even see the show, I saw you in that towel. Yeah. I was like, look at this motherfucker.

Yeah.

Of course they're calling him McSteamy. The guy's a babe.

I saw me in that towel too.

But also the character was this hot plastic surgeon.

I stitched myself up and you know, they really laid it on. Was he arrogant? A little bit.

I guess so.

Because Monica has had to admit to herself, she has a certain attraction to guys on screen that are arrogant. Like she was watching a Bradley Cooper performance, and she's like, God, this guy's a dick. I wanna fuck him so bad.

I did say that. And it's hard to reconcile when you think you're a feminist, but yeah, it's tricky. But you're also like, McSteamy was fixing babies.

Dr. Mark Sloan. Let's be respectful.

Thank you, Dr. Mark Sloan.

Also want to name Mark Sloan.

Yeah, babies that have been in car accidents.

Saving lives. Yeah, I was doing a lot of corrective plastic surgery.

It kind of counts. No vanity projects.

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Fixing kids. The hot kind.

Yes, of course you're walking down the street like, I'm not that.

But that kind of bums me out because I haven't met you yet. I'm looking at this guy in this towel and I'm like, I wanna party this guy's having. Every girl in America knows he's got a great chassis and they've already whipped up a fan. Like what a gift. Kind of breaks my heart.

It's so funny, you're describing that and I'm over here, I burped. You know, it's like, it couldn't be more polar opposite.

And, by the way, I already kind of have clues from when I did finally meet you. You talk about Dempsey was such love in your heart. It's very clear that you like him and you think he's a rad dude. Yes. How do you get on with people?

You kind of little brother it because I'm a lot younger than he is.

And they're calling you McSteamy right out of the gates. Well, he was McDreamy. I'd rather be steamy than dreamy.

I know, but Patrick knew it was his show.

He's very confident.

I don't think he ever felt threatened by me. It was apples and oranges.

Did you love? Can't Buy Me Love as much as I did as a kid?

I loved that movie. Just the young coming of age, teenage rom-com.

He betrays his best friends to be cool. So heartbreaking. I think I've done a little of that at times.

What was his name?

Great question.

Is it Arnold Miller? Yeah, because they would say- Ronald Miller. Ronald Miller. Ronnie Miller.

They couldn't believe Ronald Miller was with her. And remember Seth Green's little brother, and the dude farts out the window at the party and Seth Green's spying and it knocks him out cold. Oh my God. Once I became friends with Seth, I re-watched that movie. I was like, oh my God, you were in my favorite movie.

I didn't leave so much as I think I was let go.

At that point, you were struggling.

I was struggling. They didn't let me go because of that. Although it definitely didn't help. I was starting to become, as most of these actors who have spent significant time on a show, you start to become very expensive for the network. Yep.

We interviewed her and I thought she was a radical.

She's radical. I love Shonda Rhimes and she protected me, but I was probably fired. Okay, all right. It wasn't ceremoniously like, you're fired.

Right. It was just like, you're not coming back.

You're not coming back.

Was there an inciting incident for the relapse? Because here's where I think you and I are similar, which is it can almost be dangerous for us to shore up some safety and security. Because, like when you have that, and that racket in your brain stops, I gotta have a job and I gotta know what I'm doing next year and I gotta be financially situated. When those things are cleared up, I start thinking maybe there's room for a little dance, for a little play.

Well, I had also gotten sober when I was really young. And I think it was just post that writer's strike. And as a result, we had a short season. I think we did 18 episodes instead of 24.. So I had a lot of time on my hands in the off season.

Yeah, exactly. It's a great place. I don't even know why I'm gonna leave it. I'm quite sure. as I tell you this, why would you leave it?

And I smoked that joint and in the nine years I had been sober, weed had changed. I had gotten so stoned, I could only answer any question with yes or no. Whatever the question was, it was yes or no, because that's all I could muster. So then, after that, I was like, weed's not for me, but maybe wine, instead of going like, okay, dude, you're a drug addict and an alcoholic and you need to be sober. I was like, maybe I just did the wrong thing.

Yeah, I've never tried to drink, not to get drunk, but to enjoy the taste of it.

And I did for a little bit.

You and I also, I'm gonna add one more thing. We are similar in our addiction, I think from my assessment of you. I have friends where, if they go out, they're gonna be in the hospital a few days. So there's this misleading level of control. It's an Achilles.

Absolutely. I can make it look good for a while and it always catches up with me, but for a while I can make it look like I'm fine.

Yeah, I'm kind of a control freak and I can make it work. It's not a lie to myself as much as a reality. I choose not to even question is like, well, how will I feel when I'm pulling it off in quotes? Well, I feel good and I will not feel good. I feel morally bankrupt.

Eventually, but in the beginning, I feel good. It works for a little bit.

I don't wanna say I wish I had the other version, cause I don't want any other version, but I do think if I paid a little harsher consequences, probably the ride would have been different.

I'm gonna agree with you on that, but I'm also gonna push back gently, regardless of the consequences, I think the feelings are probably very similar. Some people just need to go further down the ladder to experience those feelings.

That's a good point. But you know, we all know people, we've gotten sober with people where it's like, they smoke that joint and then they're on skid row shooting dope in 72 hours.

For sure. They're in a hotel downtown smoking crack.

Yes, that's just not how it happens for me.

Not how I do it either. Which, you're right, is misleading. It is.

It is, but you're also probably not pulling it off as well as you think you are.

Right, right. There are people who see me.

and they're keeping their mouth shut, or they're not, but they see.

I don't disagree with you, Monica.

Had to say it.

You know. what's funny is, I've seen this over the years, 20 years in AA, people become friends and they'll actually go like, oh, I wish we partied together. I have so much gratitude that you and I have never partied together.