Maisie Williams

Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard. I'm joined by Monica Lilly Padman. Hi. Hello.

Ooh, Aria, no, she's the best.

She's the best? Yeah. Okay, I like them both so much.

Sure. I mean, there's so many good characters.

The Hound's great because he's a bad guy and he's good at times. That's a very infectious archetype for me.

Well, Aria's the opposite.

She's a good girl.

But she can be bad.

She's a naughty girl, too. Well, Maisie's been in a bunch of stuff other than Game of Thrones. The New Mutants, Pistol, Doctor Who, Then Came You, and she has a new series out now on Apple TV Plus called The New Look, which tells the story of Christian Dior, Coco Chanel, and their contemporaries. This show is made for Monica. Let's just call it what it is.

And it's timely, because it was just Paris Fashion Week.

Oh, perfect.

And do you wanna hear something?

How are they timed that?

If they were smart, they did.

Yeah, they're pretty smart at Apple.

Well, listen, The Row had a show. Okay, The Row show? Uh-huh, but they sent an email, or in the invite or whatever, they told people no social media.

Oh, so what does that mean?

So no one took pictures and posted, which, like most of these shows, it's people have video and pictures, and it's a whole.

Do you think they took people's phone when they came in? They must have, because how would you control that?

Well, I think they just, it was like.

You're entering into agreement by coming? What's it called?

Like faith's honor system.

Honor system, the faith's friendship.

And they provided everyone with a very fancy pencil. Okay. Black ink pencil. I did end up buying some after I heard about this, because I needed them. Do you write with pencils?

Oh, so they were free to draw sketches of what they saw. Well, Maisie's a veritable historian on fashion as well. She was totally invited. She knows her shit. Yeah.

Lovely to meet you.

You too.

Thank you.

Were you offered all the beverages?

Yeah, I just was kind of freaking out over this. that looks like a beer, but it's water. And there's any beer.

There'll be a wardrobe change for the big picture.

Oh.

Oh, you have a t-shirt. Are you a fan? Oh. Okay, wow. Come on.

Have you ever met anyone who wasn't a fan? Yeah.

Really?

Yeah. They were not.

Not a fan, just not seen it.

But that's like two people in the world.

Well, I don't know.

There are a couple. But also, what a good litmus test. If they go like, oh right, I never saw it. I would go, wonderful, have a good life. And then I would just turn around and walk.

Or maybe you might like it. Do you like it when people don't know you?

It is sometimes quite nice. I feel like a lot of my friends are people who have no idea.

Yeah, and that's kind of nice, some non-fan friends.

You know, Monica's making this weird decision to not watch a certain boy's show because she might date him. And I think that's crazy.

Do you get it?

I get it. Yeah.

Tell me how you get it.

Well, I don't know. Everyone I've ever dated don't have a clue. They don't care. I get to introduce myself.

Yes, you get to win them over organically. You get to earn it. But I'm talking about the reverse. Would you protect yourself from seeing, let's say, I met you. You're gonna have to play along.

Yeah, I feel like. then I would be like a little starstruck around them. And that is not good for dating. You're wrong.

I'm wrong. I'm on a roll of being wrong.

Yesterday I was like. So. do you think that like if you charmed someone.

Can you imagine?

And then would you like it if you were kind of charming a girl, you know that they hadn't seen something. Would you find it kind of flattering that they went away and watched the whole thing?

Here's what I think. And a lot of people wrestle with this. This is a debate that comes up in here all the time. And I think I can sum it up. Although you're gonna be an anomaly for this.

Once you're dating, you can- Post-coital? Yeah. Four or five dates in, you can start the show, but not at the beginning. You don't understand about playing it cool.

I know, I know. But I also do because I did okay in high school.

That was all so long ago.

How about this, though? You meet a boy, you like each other.

If you're interested in boys.

Both. That's great.

You meet a boy or a gal, it doesn't matter. You meet a human being. And there's sparky sparks flying. In learning about one another. at dinner, you go like, well, yeah, for 12 years of my life, I was very busy doing this thing.

And they're like, we can't hang out. I have a lot of seasons of this show to get through.

Yeah, I will see you in six months.

But what do you think about that? Does that not feel flattering?

I can imagine me being a little flattered, but only if they didn't, then pedestal the whole thing. You know what I mean?

Yes, if there's a huge power imbalance in any relationship and one person's a fan and in awe of you, well, that's a deal breaker. But I think that person would be that way with her without watching the show. I think they're either prone to that or not. I'll do interviews in the very well-intentioned good morning America or whatever. Like, don't you just worship your wife?

But you weren't a fan of hers before. You were exactly the opposite. You didn't know her worth.

Well, I wasn't not a fan. I hadn't seen Veronica Mars.

Maybe that's why I weren't.

Exactly, you didn't go in with any expectation. Once you were together, then you saw the show. And then you're like, oh, this is a good show.

True, but I think it would have worked both ways. I wouldn't have been peeing my pants because she was Ron Mars. You sometimes pee your pants when they're- Name a time. I peed my pants, it was like three.

Yeah, there are people. I don't want to say, because sometimes they've come in here.

Well, like Lisa Bonet. Oh, you must know, Lisa Bonet. I'm gonna ask you some questions in a minute and thank you for your patience.

No, it's great, I love this.

I think I'm in the phase of trying to win you over, because you're young and I'm old and I'm insecure.

Don't be insecure.

Have you ever tended to elevate someone up to a level that wasn't tenable?

I don't know, there's like Beyonce.

Sure.

God, she's, yeah.

I think that I definitely get starstruck more than most famous people do. Right. But I do understand that everyone is just a person, but I think that I'm kind of just awkward like that sometimes.

But don't you think, after like two months of dating and they pooped with the door open and they brushed their teeth, don't you think it would wear off?

Definitely. Oh, it would wear off on anyone, but it's just that immediate thing. And maybe it's more that whole thing of how I should be acting or should be feeling. And you're not in your body actually really at that moment, which is why you're getting so like, I can't believe this person is in front of me. But actually I think, if I were to just like, zip it in, yeah, obviously they're just a normal person.

Now, that's a great point. So if the person's celebrity or their talent has the outcome of you feeling self-conscious, then yeah, you shouldn't do it. Is that what you think might happen? Is like, if you love this show, then you might find yourself being self-conscious. Like, I hope this goes well.

That's so me. It makes me thrown a little bit in myself. And then I'm like, oh, I feel like I'm getting further away from my own destiny here.

It shakes your confidence.

Yeah. And then you can't really be you.

Exactly. Like. I wouldn't want to watch things. I wouldn't want to do things because it would just put me in a place that it was not as authentic as it was before. It would amplify.

Yeah, I think that plays a part.

Eventually, it would be so funny.

Exactly. But that's why you just have to get through that first hump.

Oh, bigger deal than me, I'm literally like.

Ha, ha, ha.

I have an armchair theory on why you're starstruck.

Okay, go for it, please.

There's the obvious thing that you were really young when you started going into these things. But I think, beyond that, if ever there was a show that was so physically removed from Hollywood, do you shoot that 10 months a year or something?

Depends on the season, but yeah, a lot of the year.

And you're out in the fucking forest, right? You don't even know if people watch the show.

It is not glamorous at all.

So then you take an airplane ride, I'm guessing. You're nailing it. From a forest in Ireland or wherever the fuck y'all are. And then you land in Hollywood and then you go to the Emmys and it occurs to you, everyone in this town is obsessed with this thing and wasn't sure it's on.

That's exactly it. I was so far removed from the glamor of this industry and the celebrity. And then that part of my life was so tiny, and compared to how long we would spend making the show and doing school and everything else, it felt like that was the reality and not the excitement side of it.

Did you feel like when you were at the Emmys, that you were like, somehow I've teleported to this thing. that cannot be real?

Definitely. I feel like I would just float through and just not really have any idea what was going on. I actually think back to those nights and I'm like, I just don't know really where I was.

You weren't. Disassociated.

Really. And I remember, even after we won best show on the final season, we were all backstage doing all the interviews and I just literally remember being the whole time just like.

Like a doe-eyed.

Yeah, fully. And then it was like, we're all gonna go out. And I was like, I think I just need to go home. This is really overwhelming.

Also, here's another guess I have about how abstract the experience was, is acting's acting. Whatever lines you're given, in whatever show you're giving, you're trying your hardest to do the best, and then you need to feel connected to your scene, partner or not. Now, then the show can have this otherworldly magic, and it can be so big and impressive that I might feel a little disjunction between what I do in the woods, which is pretty simple. I like talk to people. I cry sometimes.

Yeah, the preparation, the time, and the dedication. And when something's got, the distribution. Went to the Screen Actors Guild Awards and it was crazy, because it was the year of Jennifer Lawrence and she shot past all of us and was like, I love your show so much! She's like the biggest star in the world. I mean, still is, but that was unbelievable.

Aren't those events insane?

Just bizarre. Now I think that they're so fun. I don't know, my brain is closed over.

Well, you've practiced.

Yes, exactly. And now I think that I can just laugh at the absurdity of everyone standing in these insane dresses, with fans sweating, like the behind the scenes of it. I'm just like, this is brilliant. This is a movie in itself. But before I think I used to just really be very earnest with it and think this is the most prestigious thing and the best night of my life, and I should be so lucky.

There is a version that's highly enjoyable, but it's actually not the one you go in with, thinking. What you just said, which again is more disjunction. This is supposed to feel like the most incredible thing in the world, and yet I kind of have to poop and I'm a little hungry. Why haven't I transcended the human plane? Until you get to the point you're at, which is, oh my God, this is so comical.

And then it can be enjoyable again. But it's true, you're like, when am I gonna feel like this is the best night of my life?

Yes, we interviewed Jenna Ortega last year. Do you know her? I mean, you know of her.

Yeah, exactly. I heard that episode.

Oh, you did? Oh, you've heard the show?

Oh, that's nice. Oh, wonderful.

So the thing I really, really sympathized with her, because I had it on a much, much smaller level, but I had it, which is, everyone around you has this expectation that you should be feeling. Because we've all succumbed to the fantasy. So you're having it and you almost feel like you're letting everyone down around you, that you're not elated. Do you have any of that?

It's funny, I was speaking to my mom about coming on this press tour. She used to come on my press tours with me all the time. And I always used to talk about how they were the worst part of it for me. And I really didn't like it. because exactly that.

Mad at yourself.

Yeah, like fully. And then I was saying to her, I'm so excited for this press tour. I can't wait to see everyone. She's like, that's really funny to me, because you used to hate that part. I was also a kid, but now I just feel like you can just ease into that a lot more.

Yeah, once you accept it all, everything gets way more fun and manageable. The quicker you can get to that. Or I used to be so obsessed with my privacy. When paparazzi got Chris and I out, I was furious. I'm like, what is this?

Now you call them.

I call them every time we leave the house and I just pray they'll put us in something.

I have the nicest outfit on today, come on.

Yes, I just worked out, please photograph me.

But you're in such a weird position because you're so young and yet you are more experienced than most of the older actors working. Kind of like the May Whitman thing, where people think of you as a kid, but you're like, I've been working for longer than you.

It's such a strange part of it. I still feel like there's so much that I don't know and I still feel very green. And especially because of COVID and strike, I feel like starting all over again in a sense.

You're very grounded. I'm impressed.

Verdict's not on her yet. Oh, we don't know yet? We're almost there. We don't know yet. She could definitely do 12 impressive minutes.

Okay, you're right, you're right.

And then she can start asking Robert weird things. Once we get into an hour, we'll know. I had asked for a six bean salad. Is that around somewhere?

But just in a sense, being on set, hitting your mark and all of those little technical things, I feel like a pro. This feels kind of good, knowing what I'm doing.

Your job, you're good at your job.

Totally, and being in my light.

Yeah, Justine, if you notice the camera, you're blocked a little bit and the camera guy's so happy and grateful for you.

Yeah, he wipes the bead of sweat and I'm like, you know, I've got you, don't worry about it. So that sort of thing is great. Otherwise, I just feel like I'm always learning from other actors and I feel like I've done so much, but then I've been working with Ben Mendelsohn on this show and he has been acting since he was like eight years old. So I'm like, okay, I know nothing, actually.

Well, how old is he? He's only got you by four years on the start.

Yeah, true.

You started at 12, he started at eight.

He's like, I don't know, in his 50s, I think.

Is everyone, you're 27?

About to turn.

So you're 26.

Yeah. I have to imagine. There's like the ruling.

So let me get this straight. You're gonna turn 27,. you must be. Yeah, you're still at an age where, I have to believe, everyone over 38 is just vaguely 50.. Right, isn't?

So sad. They were?

Yeah, kind of crazy. I feel like I'm getting way better at that, actually. I have a brother who is in his mid 40s and then my mom is in her 60s. So I feel like I have a good barometer. now where I'm like, where do they fit?

You can speak my language. You have some of my references, hopefully.

It's quite crazy that you said at the beginning of this interview, you're like, I'm old. You are not old. I wanna go back. Okay, let's go back. Yeah, you're not old.

Well, listen to me.

There's still so much.

Wow, I love this.

There is still so much left for you to learn.

This is a great tongue lashing and I've earned it. So I just, I accept it. But it also makes me think of my new favorite quote I just heard. I know this is probably the second time I've said it on here, but my therapist just told me this quote he saw hanging in someone's office and it was from a female prime minister of Israel. I can't remember which one.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's a nice saying. I like that. Don't be so humble. You're not that great.

If I'm being fully honest, there's a weird evolution. You move through phases and you go like, all right, I couldn't date a 27 year old. That time has passed. And it's interesting to be incompatible in that way. And I don't even know why that crosses my mind, but it does.

Yeah, right. It's changes who your options are. I mean, you have zero options. Well, right. Just reminding you.

That ship sailed.

They're 24.

Yeah. That's probably not. You get used to being like the youngest and you get used to, I'm so naive, I don't know anything. And then you're all of a sudden like, well, I better grow up now.

Because everyone else is around me. Do you happen to, I feel like you would, for some reason. Have you seen the show Colin from Accounting?

No. Damn.

It's a great Aussie show.

Okay.

And it's about a couple. And there's a big old age gap.

Is this new?

Yes. Oh, I don't know it. Well, I think they're doing season two right now. Oh, my God, it was just recommended to us and we're like blowing through it. It's unbelievably charming and cute.

True.

Which I think is funny.

That's what you gotta do when that happens.

I feel like I've been recommended this before.

How small, I mean, how old are they?

Yeah, she's two foot three and he's seven foot one. On the show, I think she's playing 29.. They haven't said his age, but he seems to be my age.

Okay, 49.

But they're a real life couple.

Oh, they're real life?

Yes, I started following them on Instagram. I love them so much.

That sounds brilliant. They're working through something on that.

Yes, yes. Well, they need to be together. Their chemistry and their snap, snap, snap is so intoxicating. Okay, let's go back to England, 1997.. This is when Little Maisie arrives.

Hello.

Hi. And mom and dad are divorced at four months old? Yeah. Yeah, so you're in my boat. You don't have any memories of your parents?

No, I didn't know, they even met.

Okay, right, and you're not-.

In my mind.

Pining for them to get reunited or anything?

Oh, no, no, no, no, no.

Did you have a relationship with your dad?

Yes, until the age of eight.

Okay, we'll end that there. Yeah.

Yeah, really lovely.

He hit the jackpot.

Yeah, and you, no.

No, no, I didn't. Well, the last one was really nice.

Okay, cool.

There were a couple of doozies in between, though.

Yeah, my mom had a couple of boyfriends who were always great fun, and I really loved them, and then she met my stepdad. He was really lovely.

This shouldn't be a compliment for a man, but it is. Any dude who walks in, there's four kids on the scene already, and he embraces that. I just like that person.

Yeah, that's true. It's a lot. We were, well, we were. Yeah, yeah. He also had two kids of his own, and so we blended our family.

There were six of you?

There were six of us. Wow. Oh, my Lord. In a three-bedroom house. Oh, my Lord.

You're the youngest of the four that you're biologically related to. Where were you with the other two?

They were younger than me. My sister, Amy, she was, like, she still is eight months younger than me, and then my brother, James, was two, three years younger than me.

And what age were you when the family blended?

Eight or nine.

So the little girl who's eight months younger than you, did. you know her at school already?

No, so they went to school with their mom, so they would come on the weekends and stuff. It wouldn't fully, fully blend.

Are they still together?

No. Oh. I know.

These things happen. That's a bummer. I know.

It is. Yeah, my mom, this is what I mean about age, in her 60s, has started again and again.

Is she on apps? Because my mom is banging apps.

But her sister met her now, partner on Plenty More Fish or something. Oh, wow. And they are perfect for each other. I feel like it's coming at some point.

Yes, have you talked to her about apps?

Yeah, a little bit. She's like, nope.

Not doing it.

She's got her dog. She also looks after my dog, and she goes cold water swimming, and she's like, that's it. That's what I do.

Okay. I love cold water swimming. Yeah. So my mom was on the apps at 72.. She was fucking busy.

That's fun.

Yeah.

And she has a boyfriend. now, like a new boyfriend. There we go.

Yeah, they've been on a vacation together. They've been together a year now.

That's nice.

It is. Okay, but back to England. How far out of London were you? You're in a town of 1,500 people, like tiny, yeah?

Yeah, yeah. So the closest major city was a city called Bristol. Do you ever watch Skins?

I never watch.

Do you ever listen to Porter's Head?

Oh, yeah, sure, sure, sure.

Massive attack.

Oh, EDM?

Striking out. Is that an EDM?

Sort of, yeah, yeah. There, where the railways were founded. Oh, really? Isambard Kingdom, Brunel, icon, legend. We love him.

Bucolic, is it like pastoral, or is it seaside?

Seaside, import, export type situation. I lived 20 minutes outside of that. My dad lived in the city. My mom lived outside of the city, and I'd do every other weekend with my dad, up until the age of eight. But I wasn't, you know, conscious even at that point.

Right.

Hard to remember.

You weren't even alive yet.

Mom was an administrator at a college? In Bristol, I presume?

Yeah, I mean, my mom's done all kinds of jobs, but that was the most prominent job that she had while I was growing up.

Okay, so you originally wanted to be a dancer?

Yes.

Based on who? Me. Was there, someone you were looking up to, or anything?

No, I never really had any idols. I think people would talk about idols, and then I would manufacture them into my life, but I hadn't been shown a lot of things that I was like, that's what it is. It really came from within. I loved to dance, and that was just what I always wanted. Since I can remember, I've never wanted to do anything else.

Really quick, did you not idolize your older sister? I put you in a bad position. Yes, absolutely. Because I wanted to do anything my brother did.

That's true. My sister had all the coolest clothes, had all the coolest friends, always showed me all the coolest films. as well, played me Titanic. She's like, this came out the year you born, and just get ready for this.

This is the greatest love story ever told.

Yes, exactly, get ready for this. So, yes.

This is Leonardo DiCaprio, he's the hottest guy to ever live.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I was like, oh, you're right.

Oh my God. But she didn't dance.

No, she didn't dance. She sang. We were all kind of artsy. Yeah.

Okay, so you're dancing, and then, maybe this is apocryphal, but Game of Thrones is your second audition of your life? Yes. Okay, that's absurd, but tell me about the first, and how did we even get to where we're gonna audition?

I went to this local dance school, which was spoken about in the area as a really good one, and it was because the teachers were so amazing. It was called Susan Hill School of Dancing. Shout out. Shout out. And her son, George, had been a professional dancer for years, and so they really understood what it took to go to the next level.

All the way.

Yes, and they were really, really supportive of me, and they said you should go to stage school and do this. But my mom had no idea how, and so they helped us with everything. Gave me the audition piece, helped me burn music onto a CD.

Worked with you on the sides?

Exactly, did the whole thing.

Have you bought them a nice Christmas present as a thank you at this point?

I actually have never got them a nice Christmas present as a thank you. I am the worst person ever.

You might need to get them a hot tub. Yeah. We're talking about your brother.

We're still actually really in touch. George has helped me with audition pieces in the past for things that I've done in movies and stuff. I'm still close with them. Oh, that's nice. Which is nice.

What was the first audition for? Oh, no, back up. If you could objectively say what your skill level as a dancer was, out of 10..

Listen, passion, enthusiasm. Counts for a lot in this world. And magnetism was a 10, for sure. But I had not been training as long as a lot of these kids had.

Could you do the, what do they call it, toe point?

Oh, yeah.

You could. Oh, yeah.

Okay, I was good, like, you know.

Well, I don't know much.

I did grade six ballet, which is the highest. I was in intermediate ballet. If you're being a professional dancer, you've done that by the time you're like 16.. And I feel like I was just kind of getting to that point then.

Did you see Billy Elliot when you were young?

Oh, actually, tell a lie. If I had an idol, it was Billy Elliot. Oh, yes. It really was. Love that film.

Did you do it in the ballet? Oh, did we get a kick out of the way they were saying ballet here?

Ballet. The ballet.

Okay, so the first audition, sorry.

I don't go to stage school. I don't go. Well, I got in, but it's too expensive. Okay. But I start doing all these other things, and I get an agent who sees me do acting and says, you should do that instead.

Nanny McPhee 2, The Big Bang.

Yeah, did you ever watch Nanny McPhee? I did, yeah. Emma Thompson?

Yeah, it was, I don't remember.

Get that on for the kids. I loved it.

You guys are much closer in age.

I'm still a lot older.

But you're not terribly close. Okay. I'm sorry.

Just stop. Just, okay.

And so, I try and do. Nanny McPhee 2, The Big Bang.

And that was the first audition. And did you get nervous, or was that easy for you?

I used to get really nervous for auditions, more so than dancing. But it was kind of my process at the time. We would get to Reading on the train, and then it's 20 minutes until we get to Paddington. And I would start freaking out and crying. Not like, loudly.

Your eyes, I'm sitting here talking to you, and they've already had three different levels of moisture in them in the last like, seven seconds. Have you noticed that?

Very dynamic.

Do you have the option of like, eight centimeters diameter, or 26 centimeters?

Yeah, they do that.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ha.

And that's genetic.

Yeah, those are your eyeballs. Yeah, and I think my mom, at some point, was like, is this really what she should be doing? Because with the dancing, it was never like that. But it was just part of it, I think. I just was being judged in a way that made me feel a little more insecure than the dancing.

I also think it's easier to make your body move through muscle memory, in a way you've practiced, than it is to go control your voice and your delivery.

Right, and the point is, is they go, can you do it differently now? And you go, well, maybe, but.

Right, I've been practicing it this way for the last two days.

Yeah, and you did a ballet thing, and they're like, all right, girl, now do that as a jazz ensemble. Okay, now, do that as a line dance, right? You'd be like, I didn't practice that. Yeah, it's nerve wracking. Now, when you got Aria, the script, and I'll be honest, we watched the pilot of the show, and I was like, I don't know, man.

Not for reasons to not let me do it. We're very fortunate, lucky people, but not really from a place where opportunities come around that often, and we had really been pushing for this. I just knew it was what I wanted to do, and I was so lucky that my mom was down for me to do it.

Did you feel a little bit safety netted by it being HBO? Because again, you could read the same-.

I had no idea who HBO were. You didn't. I had a friend whose part of her family lived in the US, and she was like, HBO is apparently good. And I was like, okay, well, that's good.

Let me dig into this a little bit.

Yeah, we're not cinema fans. We're not television fans. We're not aware of this world at all. There's things that have cut through. This is not the world that we are familiar with.

Yeah, that makes sense.

But it turned out to be this, which is like unbelievable. No, it's kind of- Kind of ridiculous and insane.

Yeah, there's only like a handful of these. I always give the example, and I don't know why, and again, you didn't follow TV, so this would mean nothing to you, but Ashton Kutcher's very first audition was that 70's show, and it ran for seven years and was syndicated. You might act your whole life and never get out of a show that ended up getting syndicated. And sometimes that just happens.

Wait, and so how old were you exactly? I forget.

I was 12 when I got the part, like 11 when I was auditioning.

Oh, so, maybe it was at this time of year, as we approach your birthday.

It was. I have it tattooed on my arm. It was the 7th of August, 2009, when I got the part.

Oh, I love that you have that tattooed.

That's lovely.

And it's 789,, which is cute. I mean, here you guys would do 879,, but you're wrong.

You're right. I was just filling out a visa application today.

Oh, did you do it wrong?

Well, I was on the verge of doing it wrong, but luckily there was a dropdown menu, and then I had to acknowledge we do do it wrong, because it makes no sense. It's not in ascending order here. Here, I would say I was born 1-2-75, January 2nd. But if you think about it, I went month, day, year. It should go day, then months bigger, then years biggest.

Except it's sort of like the big bucket, and then the smaller bucket, and then a big, big bucket. Yeah, you're right.

It doesn't ascend, and it should.

Yeah, but it's also because you guys say January 4th, January 5th, whereas we would say the 4th of January. So it makes sense already, because you're saying 4th of January, when you're doing it shorthand, and you're going 4-1..

Well, what you've robbed yourself of is May the 4th be with you.

Exactly. I actually had an ex-boyfriend who was born on May the 4th.

And was he American or English?

He was English, but it didn't make sense for us to be like, 4th of May. be with you.

Right, you were totally robbed of that. That's one thing to think about. Yeah, that's true. I wonder what things were missing.

I bet a lot.

By doing it in the wrong order.

Not a lot.

Armchair expert, if you dare.

Northern Ireland.

Which was how far away from where you lived?

It took like 45 minutes on an airplane.

So that's not bad at all.

No, it was great. At the time, it was the furthest away from my house I've been. Actually, I tell a lie. I went to Disneyland Paris.

You did. What do you rate it? I've only been to Disney World and Disneyland.

I was in a push chair. But there's a really funny picture of me.

Oh, you were in a what?

A pram, stroller. Oh, a stroller.

Oh, I thought you were in a wheelchair.

Oh no, that's what I wanted to clarify.

What did you injure?

I was in a stroller. But there's this really funny picture of me next to Tigger, and I look really, really, really happy. Like, the biggest smile.

And were you like one?

I guess.

Parents will really take their kids to Disney. I mean, my mom and dad took me to Disney in those strollers. For years.

What for?

It's beautiful because right out of the gate, you're trying to give them everything you can. I know, it's sweet. It's really sweet. Totally wasted on them. Look, our kids went all around the world and they don't have a single memory of any of it, you know?

That is so funny.

Yeah, what are you gonna do? Did you feel at all lonely during any of that? Because everyone's a bit older than you.

Not lonely. I was having one-on-one time with my mom, hanging out with Sophie, who has become my best friend.

How much older is she than you?

A year.

Oh, okay.

We got to stay in a hotel with a pool and a sauna and a spa. And we would go shopping with the per diem. I was like, mom, how much of that per diem do we have left? Because if we shop at Pizza Express again, then we can go to Topshop and get more clothes.

Mel, look, the show had so many incredible characters, but for sure, yours is one of the ones. Like you, really got, I don't wanna say lucky, it's you. It was a very cool character.

She's cool.

She's got her needle.

I love her needle.

I love her needle. And she's a tomboy. You're not supposed to say that, but in all my research, they kept saying it, so now I'm gonna say it. But yeah, it's like going against this frilly kind of other side of it. You're counter-programming within it.

She was. I only am now really realizing that, because I think people would say it a lot, but I was so disconnected from it. When House of the Dragon came out two years ago, I re-watched Game of Thrones, because I haven't watched it since it was televised. Yes, yes. And there's some episodes that I haven't even seen.

Yeah, you're already. She's like, you are.

Well, congratulations, because you've been doing it for four years.

And so I think now I can look at it and go, yeah, I just feel a sense of pride.

Yeah, you're playing a badass, and a little badass. It's also very Natalie Portman, professional. Very. Did you ever see that?

I did, yeah. Breakout role. I actually met her at a film festival once. It was a cool moment. I could gauge a little bit that she knew who I was.

Now, the only episode I want to ask you about is, it's kind of a cool distinction to have, that you were in the longest fight scene that's ever existed in a movie or on television.

Wait, which one?

From the Long Night episode. Oh, yeah. That's the longest battle scene in film and television history. My question is, A, what was it like? How many days did you shoot that?

So the prep on that was unbelievable. We had started filming in autumn, the year before. We got to that episode in, I think it was like the February of the year after. And we shot for three months at night time. Oh my god.

Nothing.

Yeah, kind of just messing around. And then there's a big fight thing that I do through one of the battlements. That was another bit. I twist my ankle quite badly that day. Because I had to run away and they had all these fake bodies on the ground.

How about this? How would you compare your real life athleticism to Aria's?

Oh, I was so much fitter when I was playing Aria. I enjoy exercise, for sure. But it's got to be something that I love to do.

Amusing a little bit.

Dancing.

Yeah, right. I've got to be doing something. that's fun. And when I was doing that, I was loving, learning the sword fighting. But I was working with a team every single day.

And you were using your left hand, even though you're right handed, which is adorable.

Yeah, I know.

I was right handed in a movie. Well, I didn't even say.

But you're left handed in real life?

I'm left handed in real life.

Love that.

Oh, thank you so much. I'm proud of it.

Yeah, it's one of the coolest things.

It's like being an elf, kind of. But I...

It's funny that you're proud of it. I am. No, it's great.

It's like my dyslexia, my left hand.

I know, but okay. I know, but...

It's something I overcame. The world's designed for, right handed. Oh, okay. Yeah. No, no, no.

It's cool because it's rare.

Of all people, you love rare.

I love it.

I love that you're left handed. I think it's a little funny that you personally are proud of it. I am, I am. That it's not something that you...

A win's, a win. Did.

Yeah, that's true.

I guess, let's just take what we can.

Yeah, exactly. I certainly didn't earn it. I just was born this way, but I'll take it, you know? I get it. Okay, so, back to the left.

Oh, God.

Arbitrarily decided, well, there's no way that guy would be lefty. He's not artistic. He's like a crook. I did not practice really at all. I just was, I'm going to be right handed.

Was that kind of in character? Like, was the character stupid? No, I was pretty cool.

I know it's a tough guy. You should see that movie.

I haven't seen it.

I'm kind of hurt. I've seen a lot of your movies. Maybe I should be flattered because you're not going to see that guy's movies. I don't know which way to go. Did you ever do anything stupid yourself because you weren't good with your left hand?

Well, kind of. It was sort of a combination of people's fault. I don't want to say it was fully my fault, but there's a moment where I'm jabbing the hound in his chest plate with my sword. And obviously it's like not going through because he's got armor on. And they wanted to get a nice close up shot of the sword warping.

And if you were using your right hand, maybe wouldn't happen.

I don't know. I think it probably still would have. I think that was actually just me.

That's a great behind the scenes moment. Like you have these scenes, you see them on shows and you don't realize to your point, there's 65 fucking people involved in this one little thing. Someone's adjusting the collar on your shirt while this is going on. Not only are too many people talking, but all of a sudden you're like, who's pulling on me?

Yeah. And they're like, oh, your mic packs on the floor. You're like, okay, fine. Go, go, go, go. Someone's like dabbing some anti-shame cloth on your face.

Cause they were always sweating.

Yeah. We had to be dirty. Oh yeah. And oh man.

Glycerin, right? Is that what they're using? Yeah.

And just fake mud. And Aria, she was so dirty.

You were one of the dirtiers.

For the longest time too. They got the Emmy, so well done. But they wanted every bit of skin that was ever shown. So if I wasn't wearing socks and they were dirty, like up to here on my ankle, all the way up to my elbows, around my neck and my chest. And then they'd put on this huge collar thing, and it was great.

I remember that so much because you're negotiating with them. You're like, just so. you know, I don't know if you read the whole scene, but I never pull my pants up to my knee, nor do I move in a way that that could ever happen. Yeah.

I'm like, you're never going to see it. Please, please.

And then they have this stupid bag. They just keep blotting your clothes with the bag of dirt.

Yeah. And it's like, did you like your lunch? Okay, well, let's put some more dirt on you now.

Let's pig pen you and surround you in a cloud of dirt.

This is why acting is hard. People can act in their bedroom in a vacuum. A lot of people can.

Self-tape.

Or even just, I think, a person at home, when they watch a movie, they think like, I could do that. But the thing is, is doing it and being believable and being in character when all that's happening, when people are all around you and you're taken out of it to then click in so quickly.

It's like Agony Natural while getting attacked by a swarm of bees.

It's so much harder than people think, that piece.

By the way, whenever there's like the fake food on set, there are bees too.

Right. And you're always like, do I ignore that? Clearly, this flies in shots. So should I acknowledge that as a good actor or do I ignore it as a good actor?

Yeah. Do I want to interrupt the take, even though I know that this is a ruined take?

Yeah, maybe I can salvage it by acknowledging there's a fucking fly.

Yeah, there we go. Okay.