Synced: Trips & Falls & Pies & Creams
2023-11-08 00:59:37
Hi, I’m Dax Shepard, and I love talking to people. I am endlessly fascinated by the messiness of being human, and I find people who are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and shortcomings to be incredibly sexy. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to growth and betterment. What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training. I will attempt to discover human “truths” without any laboratory work, clinical trials or data collection. I will be, in the great tradition of 16th-century scientists, an Armchair Expert.
Little hat. Maybe I won't wear headphones then, once we have hats.
We have hats. Okay.
Hats replacing headphones. I really like it.
We should just wear— Happy Halloween. We should just wear head wraps. What are these called? Headbands? Headbands.
We should wear seasonal headbands every week.
I am down to do that for the rest of the year because today, to me, is officially kickoff of holiday season. Oh, holiday, holiday.
Like Thanksgiving and Christmas. Holidays.
Yeah. Okay. Like we're in it as of today. And what do you— Well, this is such an.
obvious question, because Halloween is my Met Gala. It goes, you know, I know how much the Met Gala means to you. Sure. It's fine. for me.
It's like a 3 out of 10.. When it's the Met Gala, I'm like, okay, I'll see the nice dresses. But Halloween is a 14 out of 10..
And why do you think? Where does it come from? Have you always been like that?
I did always— I mean, any kid, you're like, wait, what? Like? we just get to dress up, we get free candy, we can stay up late, and then we can kind of just eat candy for like a month. But as I've gotten older, I think what I really enjoy about it is just seeing everybody— It feels like everyone's a little bit more free. You can be anybody and you don't have to explain it, right?
It's just like, oh, it's Halloween. Of course I'm an astronaut. Yes. And I think it just allows people to be very playful and be like kids for a day.
It is fun.
And yeah, I get so much out of it. Just even like when I'm in New York for Halloween, I'll just go to the parade on my own. Like many years, I've done that where no one wants to— You And I'll just go and watch people and I like— I'll honestly get emotional. Like I'll cry.
Wow. Shocker.
Yeah. But what do you love about the holidays?
For Halloween, it is so funny because this morning I was looking at the cut. They had all these people dressed up in Halloween costumes and there's one of Channing Tatum in like a baby. And it is just so funny to think that he and Zoe Kravitz that day like, got— or she's like, but he, like, took the time to put it on and he's walking around the world as this big baby.
And what is she?
So here's something. Yeah, let's go. When I hear songs, it takes me a long time to understand what the song is. Like a minute in before I'm like, oh, it's that. Some people can hear it immediately.
I don't have that sort of recall. I also have like Halloween blindness. I almost never know who people are.
Oh, under their costumes.
No, no, no. I don't know what anyone's costume is. And I have to pretend like I do.
Okay. What does that look like? You're just like, oh, you're—. what a fun—. what do you say?
No, I'll just like, you look great.
And then pivot to something else. Yeah. Immediately.
Unless I know ahead of time, if that's helpful. But when I'm out trick-or-treating with the kids or something, I don't know what anyone is.
What were you as a kid? What was your favorite Halloween costume?
Probably Charlie's Angels with my two friends. That was really fun. As an adult, I was Dora the Explorer. That was probably my best outfit. I've ever had.
My best costume. Okay, but let's do this test, okay? Okay. So I'm going to send you this article. And don't read the answer.
Because, like, I think, in the caption it says what people are. But I want you to look at it and see if you know what everyone is. I know.
Okay. You know me and trivia in general.
But you know Halloween.
It's true. And you know pop culture well. Okay.
So let's start at the beginning. That's David Beckham. Okay, yep. Okay, this is Ed Norton as David Beckham. That one I felt strongly about, but I wasn't 100% sure.
Okay, go to the next one.
Obviously, Kill Bill. See? I don't. You don't? Okay, that, I don't know what movie that's from.
Why is he her baby?
Wait, which one? Channing?
Channing. I don't think I know that reference.
Okay, good. Because there's a-.
It's a scary movie. I haven't seen it. And I never will.
It's a baby and a woman in a white dress.
Rosemary's Baby. Oh, Rosemary's Baby. Oh, my God. Good job. I mean, feminism.
Oh, wow. Toxic and Britney, obviously. Come on.
Who, Paris? Yeah, I didn't know that.
See? Wait, that's so funny that you don't know.
I have face blindness for Halloween. Face blindness for Halloween. What David has, but I really, I don't.
Have you talked about it with him? Does it follow the same-?
I bet it does follow the same guidelines. If there's context, I could know, but out of the blue, my brain just can't file.
Okay, that's so funny. What is this one? Bob Dylan and- No. What?
Andy Warhol and Edie Sedgwick.
It is? Oh, yeah.
Also, what are you guys talking about? You're like, oh, it's so obvious. What? And then is she Betty Boop? Yeah.
Okay, thank God. I got that one. And I only knew the last one because I read the caption on accident. The V for Vendetta? The Flintstones?
Oh, the Flintstones, I got. I got the Flintstones. Anyway, this is, I think, the first time I've admitted to this, that on Halloween, I'm a little lost out there.
I think you're not alone. There are certain cultural touch points. Like, I was going to dress up as Haley Bieber and Justin Bieber going to her makeup launch event, where they were dressed like they were going to two different events. And a lot of people didn't know what I was talking about. I had to send the photo.
Yeah. You know, people are like, oh, okay, I get it. But that's the fun of it. You know what I've been saying this year? And this will probably be so boring because we're just talking about Halloween.
I know, and it's over. So anyway, but it's just. people have gotten really creative with video Halloween costumes.
What's that mean?
It means they're recording their costume as a video rather than posting it as photos. And some of them, like, remember that lady that falls in the snow?
What? One of the top 10 best people falling. viral videos of all time. The reporter's like, oh my God, you're out there, you know, running in the snow. What's the trick, you know?
And then this woman, which was such like a smug, like, the snow, is, what does she say? I don't know this thing. You haven't seen it?
Yeah, I don't know this. Oh my God, I'm so jealous.
Okay, so she goes, the snow is, it's perfect. If you pat it down with your feet, it's not slippery and it's not that cold. Like, basically giving this news reporter, like, you know, a lesson in winter sports. And then she ends her talk. She's standing with her boyfriend.
They start running off screen. And then the reporter goes back to the camera and starts talking. Like, and then in the background, you see her just immediately slip and fall. And it's really funny. So I saw people recreate that.
So people have been doing video costumes. I feel like last year, I didn't really see that.
Of the viral videos, of the videos that pop around. Yeah. What's the type that makes you laugh the most? Is it falling?
That's a great question. It's definitely the people falling. Okay. Or the people laughing in a serious situation once are really funny. I could just talk about viral videos all day.
But there's this video of, like, this woman needs to do, like, she's in nursing school. And she just has to do one of those videos where, like, for, like, I guess an assignment, which is wild, right? Like, to think about that. we never did that. So she's using her sister as, like, a fake patient.
But her sister just has to sit there and do nothing. But of course, she's seeing her sister be, like, taking her temperature and, like, pretending to be a nurse, so she can't stop laughing.
Yeah.
When you were in high school, did you find it so hard not to laugh in class? Like, it was a constant battle for me. Everything was so funny. Yes.
I mean, I had that a little bit less in class, but more in actual bad situations. Oh. One time, this was so bad. It must have been in high school. So kind of old for this to have happened, I guess.
We were upstairs hanging out. And her brother came upstairs, her younger brother. And he opened the door, and he looked so sad. And he told us that his teacher died. She got in a car accident and died.
And we... No. You saw us laughing?
We knew we couldn't, but we were both, like...
I don't know why.
We both had the instinct. Okay. I think... I mean, I do, in retrospect. No, it just came so out of the blue.
It's almost one of those, like, no.
Oh, okay.
Life isn't like that. So you'd laugh? Like, I'm trying to make it better for us, when I think back on it, that we were just in shock. Because obviously, there's nothing funny.
I think it's nervous laughter. Because I relate so much. Even when I do on-camera stuff, and I'm like, look at my face. This person just said something so traumatic. And I'm like, I'm not laughing, but I'm almost like...
Because, yeah, it's like a coping strategy of sorts, which is not a good one in public. It's not a good one.
Like, why did we evolve to do that? That's so horrible. It was so bad. And we, just, like, needed him to leave so we could laugh and get it out. It's so bad.
It is. There's also something about... I don't know if boys have this. Rob, you have to corroborate or deny. But I feel like girls, especially teenage girls, we have the giggling gene.
That is so universal. It's contagious, too.
Exactly. That's probably what's happening. I just feel like... Okay, so...
Oh, no. It's happening now. Tell us. I'm scared. It's just...
I have a perfect example of, like...
It's not a perfect example. This is lore. Family, lore of mine, okay? So my mom famously doesn't close lids, okay? Doesn't turn the lid all the way.
It's, like, on top, so it looks like it's...
Oh, shit. Like a pickle lid or something?
Yeah, pickle lid, orange juice, yogurt container, whatever it is.
She just doesn't twist it closed.
She doesn't twist it. She doesn't fully press it down. So it's like a booby trap. And I also... Me and my mom are cut from the same ADD cloth.
And my dad is the complete opposite. on the spectrum of, like, everything must be organized and predictable. And all disasters must be avoided by being overly careful. And so he often would refer to our fridge as a booby trap. Like, he wouldn't know what he would be doing.
And...
This won't be interesting to anybody.
It's cute that you love it so much. I can't...
I, like... It happened 25 years ago and I still can't say it without crying. So me and my best friend Kat are sitting. We're 13 at the time. There's V8..
Like, a big...
Oh, God. And my dad is in front of me and I grab the...
Oh, my God. Wow. This is so great.
This is bringing me so much joy. I love it. It just never... Oh, my God. Now it gets funny.
It's like a movie in my head that I can just play anytime I want. So I take the V8 and...
For some reason, I shake it. Like, this.
Like, instead of even just, like, any other way.
Like, and so I go...
You shake it out. Out. Oh, fuck.
Of course, the lid wasn't properly on. I just get this visual of my dad going, like...
Like, just like that. Oh, on him.
In his face.
Straight shot.
Straight shot.
Oh, God.
And my best friend and I, just, like, are... And my dad is so upset. And my mom... Everyone's just, like, he's so mad. And my best friend and I are just trying not to laugh.
And we were, like, okay, let's get towels. And some of it reverberated onto Kat. For sure. And so then we're, like, oh, we'll just go upstairs and change our shirts. And we got into the bathroom and just, like...
Died.
Died on the floor for, like, 10 minutes over... Like, put up the sound of the faucet and the water running so he wouldn't hear us. But, yeah, that was when...
That's great. That's so great. Because he couldn't laugh at it.
He was so mad about it. And still to this day, I can't really bring up that story. Because for him, you know, it's just that fight over and over again. And that he, you know... Because you bear the brunt of your partner's bad habits, you know, sometimes.
For me, the videos that are the most funny... Yes. ...are when a wife or girlfriend tricks the boyfriend. Yes. They pretend, like, something scary is happening.
Or that there's a bug, or, like, a rat. They just, like, start screaming.
Yep.
And then the boyfriend immediately also starts screaming and freaking out. What? What? But then they're, like, jumping up on the counter. Just seeing people in their true element.
There's something... And I guess that's the same way with falling. There's just something so human. When you see people just being so human, it's great.
Yeah, it's very primal. It is. Right? In all of these cases, right? It's laughing in a serious situation.
Or it's just, you know you can't do it. But your body is almost betraying you. Yes. And so with falling, right? You don't want...
And it's the funniest is when people try to catch themselves from falling. That's the funny... It's funnier than the falling part.
Yes.
Where they're just...
Stumbling across is so great. Wow. Anywho. Okay, so it's holiday season. Yes.
So what does that mean for you?
That means we're on track as of today, for every day feeling cozy, feeling in the mood, having festive things to do. So this weekend, I bought all these... I was late on this, but I bought pumpkins.
Oh, fun.
Cute pumpkins put by my fireplace that will lead me through Thanksgiving.
What's the rule on pumpkins?
For me, it's through Thanksgiving.
Okay, then they go.
That's fine. They still count as Thanksgiving decor. Okay. We have Halloween tonight, and then we head into fall dinners. Fall dinners.
I love hosting some fall dinners. And then Thanksgiving, and we do it. We always normally do a fun Friendsgiving. And then that weekend is packed with tradition. So we do Friendsgiving.
We do secret turkey, where everyone in my little group picks names, and then we give a little present. It's so cute. Then the next day is Black Friday. Right. I have Black Friday tradition with Callie.
We go to this one shopping area every year, and then some years we go to a movie. I thought maybe we wouldn't be able to do it this year because of the new little Bambino, but we are.
Okay. Is the Bambino coming with? No. No. Good.
Bambino stays with dad. I like that. And then we're going to go shop our little hearts out in search of, quote, sales. But this is not so much a sales type of shopping market. So everything's pretty much full price.
We still buy stuff.
You do?
Yeah. It's just super fun. That's so fun. And then the next day, Saturday, Saturday after Thanksgiving, is Pig Day. Pig Day is huge.
That's the day Jess and I go. We get my Christmas tree from Home Depot, pick it out, then we set it up. That's always fraught with stumbling and dropping stuff. I always get a huge tree, and then Jess has to kind of carry it in for me, and it's very sweet. And there's trips and falls and pies and creams.
And then we set all that up. And last year we watched a movie. We watched Edge of Tomorrow, because all year he wanted me to watch that with him, and I said, no. I was like, I don't want to watch that. And so I'm not gonna.
Can't make me. My body, my choice. But then on Pig Day, I said we can. So we watched it, and then we went to Houston's for dinner. You met us for Houston's that night last year, on Pig Day.
You did meet us.
It's true.
Then I think maybe the next day we saw a movie. Anyway, it's just like that. weekend is one of my favorite stretches of time throughout the whole year. It's so festive and so fun. And then my house is decorated for Christmas.
Yeah.
I'm in the spirit. I love it. Do you have traditions? What are your traditions? Oh, my god, no.
I love this so much because I came from a very ritual family. We had a lot of rituals. And I've been re-watching Friends, which I want to obviously ask you about. I'm sure you've talked about it on our show too. But I was just thinking about why is this such a comforting show, right?
And now that Matthew Perry's gone, it's happening. I'm re-watching the whole. It's like I'm not gonna resist. I'm not watching any new thing that's coming out for the next three months. Don't even ask me.
Don't.
I'm re-watching all of Friends. And what is it about this show? And I think there's a few things, right? The fact that there's no phones and they're never elsewhere. when they're there.
They're always present with each other. And they have a third place, which we don't have anymore. Third location. Third location. And it's like, see you at the coffee shop, right?
You shouldn't go to a second location with people, but you should go to a third location.
That's our rule. That's our motto to stay alive in 2023.. And they also, again, you see, they always have a Christmas episode, a Thanksgiving episode. And they spend Christmas together, right? We live such different lives.
And we don't, I don't know, there's a lot. It's not fully formed at all. But also like they're in their 20s, but they look like they're in their 30s, right? And a lot of them are single at certain points. They're obviously in relationships.
But their core relationship is not to their families, but to themselves. Yes. And sort of each other.
To each other, yeah.
And again, these rituals of celebrating these big holidays together and what you're laying out. Like, I feel like you're so good. You're the closest person I know that has friends, that lives that life. And, I can tell, makes you very happy and your friends very happy, right? You very luscious and rich, I think, friendships.
And so, yeah, like how do you come up with rituals? How do you make sure that people do them every year? How can we become better at creating rituals, not just for the holidays, but for the rest of the year too, right?
That's a good question. I mean, look, I do feel that I, in some ways, made this requirement for my life when I started watching that show and was so moved by it. And it was my safe place always to go to. And I felt so comforted by it. And I did feel so comforted by this group protection they had of one another.
I'm still always seeking that. And so I have built that in many phases of my life, which I'm so grateful for. And it's so lucky. But I don't know. it's like 100% an accident.
I think, knowing at an early age, I want that. We sort of made it like even in high school, we had a really close group of friends. And it's a group, right? Like that's sort of the basis of it. We're this group of friends.
But high school is, of course, different. You live with your parents. And it's not the same. But once we went, we all went to college together. And that sort of also cemented that group family.
We just did everything as a unit. And at one point, we all moved into off-campus housing, my sophomore year. And it was three of us girls in a house next door, three of our boys. And it was friends. We just like, bopped in and out.
What's funny is, I can only see that now. It was exact. It was an exact replication. And I'm so grateful. It's so lucky.
I mean, that is. the true privilege of my life is that I've been handed so many beautiful people and friendships. And sometimes I do think about this when I think about my lack of romantic partnerships. I wonder, sometimes like, is that a trade-off? Is that something I gave up?
Is that something my dad said? She doesn't have to have that, but she'll have all of this when he did The Sim. And that's the right choice.
Oh, wow.
I would prefer to have all these loving people than one person that I'm fully reliant on.
or whatever.
Anyway, and so that happened then. And it definitely, I was like, well, that's a once in a lifetime. You don't get that type of thing again. And I do have it again. And it is so lucky.
But you do have to water it. Like, I will say, the older you get, you really have to water it. Because people have their own families and stuff. You just force it. It's like, we're going to have girls' dinner.
I'm hosting it. You're coming over. Like, we're going to figure out what day works. And also having some flexibility. If this person can't come, it doesn't ruin your night.
Because that's also contingent to the group dynamic. People. do let you down and mess up and do things. Like, it's a family. You have to have acceptance across the board of all things.
Synced is supported by Element. I just had a couple girlfriends over for dinner.
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You feel great. I also had a couple friends over for dinner the other night. And was giving them some things. I said, oh wait, hold on. Everyone needs to take.
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I am such a sucker for tradition and ritual. And if something awesome happens, this is like a sort of an addict deep part of my brain. I'm like, when are we doing that again? We're doing that again. We're doing it next year or we're doing it next month, or, you know, I want to keep that going.
I don't think that's addicty at all.
A little bit of like, oh, this feels so good. Like. I don't want this to end and we have to make sure we do it again and again, and again and again.
You're not unhealthily clinging to, I don't know. I don't know what an unhealthy version would be. But you're not yelling at people to line up and be available on this day, this time, even though, you know, you have the flexibility, you have the openness. But you're like, this is meaningful. I mean, again, you were like, I got handed.
friendships. Like you are such a good friend. So you have people around you that reflect back the amazing friend that you are to them. And I feel like you also manifested it.
I kind of do think that. Some people have to do this more actively than others. I think, being very much in touch with your body and your mind in moments that make you truly happy. And so, like the first time that Jess and I, it was an accident. It wasn't like, okay, we're going to go have a tradition now.
We were at Home Depot, I think maybe with Kristen and Dax. Oh, no, I know. It was the very first time. Dax wasn't even there. Kristen and the girls, Jess and I, were at the house and she was like, I think we should get our tree.
We should go ahead. It was kind of like a task we had to do. So we all went to get the tree and it was so fun and delightful. And then the next year we went again and I was like, I think I want to get a tree. And he was like, okay.
And so then we picked up that. You let yourself feel the feeling of like, I feel so happy and so good and so safe and so cozy and so warm. I want more of this. Yeah, I think that's maybe my tip is connecting to the moments where you feel really good. That's in our Friendsgiving too, with the secret turkey.
Two years ago, it started and one of the kids in the group, she's so funny and amazing and wonderful. And she'll always put on plays with the kids. And then we all have to watch the plays or movies. And for a while, it was like, oh, God, like there's always something to do. Like we always have to do something.
And so when it was Thanksgiving, she told us all to pick a name out of the hat. Or maybe at that point, she assigned us or something. I think, maybe she assigned us, and it was like, Monica, you have... I don't remember, but it was like, oh, it was her. She was like, Monica, you have Lily.
And you need to write a letter of all the things you like about her. And I was like, oh, my God, what is this? And then everyone had, like, Kristen, had Laura and had to make her an origami. And someone had to write a poem for someone else. But I just sing a song.
In retrospect, I was so happy. I had to just write a letter of things I love. And then we went around the table and did it. We're all like, let's just like, do this for Lily. Let's just get this out of the way.
We got to do it. And then, by the end of it, it was the most life affirming, heartwarming feeling of love. I'm like, oh, my God. It just was very, very special. And so, of course, then last year we said we need to do that again.
Lily, make sure you give us all names. So she did a random generator and handed out our names. And she didn't tell us what we had to do. this time. We got to decide.
And it was so fun. And I hope we'll do it again. But I think it's because we all had that sense of, oh, this is so worth doing. Like, take 30 minutes out of this day where we're just sitting around playing cards to think about somebody else in the group and make it special.
Yeah. And you're right. It's not a task, but it's probably a little bit how I didn't grow up going to church, but a little bit church, right? Where, like on Sunday, you don't necessarily want to go. You want to, you know, hang out and stay in your sweatpants.
But you go and you dress up. And by the end of it, and again, some people were like harmed by the church. I don't want to lump everyone in there. But doing like a spiritual thing, right?
In a community.
In a community. Exactly.
That's the big piece.
I had a weird year, maybe 2016.. I went to church every Sunday. No. I was a little broken. Like, I woke up one day, it was like one of those dumb, like, we went out to this club, which I never go to clubs in New York.
I was like 29.. Like, it was too old to be at a club, but went to this club for like a birthday party. And then, like invited this guy I had a crush on. And then he, like, brought a girl, right? One of those just like, ugh.
And so I woke up the next day. I felt so gross about my life. And then I lived right on the corner of like second and 10th in New York. There's a church, St. Mark's.
And I just walked in.
Whoa.
Like a weirdo. Like, and I just sat there. And they were christening dogs and cats and pets. And it was a female priest. Okay.
And there was a Black Lives Matter poster. I was like, is this dope? And so, and then I went every Sunday.
What? For a year? For a year.
And then I made my parents go to church for Christmas that year.
Wait, this is, wow.
And they went with me. And it was the same thing where they're like, really? And then, like, we all went.
I feel shocked and shook. Do you? I mean, I do and I don't.
But wow. And what did you get? Do you feel like you?
Oh, yeah. I got so much out of just being in a space with other people that I don't know. That don't know anything about me. Don't need anything from me. Except just being with each other and singing songs.
It was like going like this weird camp. And I think I was overwhelmed, definitely. I was working all the time. I was in unhealthy relationships. I was drinking a lot.
I think it was this kind of cleansing thing I would feel like I could do. And I think I lacked community. I mean, I had community at work, which is the other thing, right? It was my third place, but it's still work. Yeah, I think I needed spirituality or community.
During the time, did you believe in God slash Jesus?
I mean, I felt like I was bad at it, but I would pretend. It's like when you're falling asleep. Like, you have to pretend to be asleep until you fall asleep.
Hey, you were trying to fake it until you made it.
I would do all the things, like all the prayers.
And you're working at Vox at the time. This is so bizarre. Wow. This is kind of great and very open-minded.
Okay, I like that. Yeah. I mean, it was kind of nice, because it's a little bit how I feel about being part of a 12-star program where I'll see people out in the wild, sometimes in the neighborhood. And it's not... Even yesterday.
What?
What? No, sometimes I wonder if people are... Okay, now. I know. Now I have an example.
Not in the 12-star program. I know you sought that for a need. But do people ever, just like, show up at these meetings? and they don't... They're not an alcoholic or a codependent or whatever, whatever.
They just go because it's like friendship.
I 100% think so. And actually, someone recently told me... I think it was in another 12-star program, but they were like, I went to AA even though I didn't drink. Had no issues. And I had no issues.
And I just was like, cool. We're working on ourselves. And I didn't have an alcohol problem, but I did the steps and I did that. Got a sponsor.
But do you think it ever tips into? then you're lying and making up that you had a vendor or something?
Oh my God. I've never thought about that.
Because then you're on the spot and you feel that you have to share. And at this point, you're too far in to admit. So you have to say that you killed your girlfriend's dad.
Yeah, for sure. That's specific. There must be people.
I think about the arm cherries, because all we do is talk about addiction. And Dax does make the program sound so lovely and special and wonderful, which it has been for him and so many people. But I was like, sometimes I'm jealous.
It is amazing.
But then I have gone to some other meeting, tangential meetings, not in AA, but similar ones. And I don't have that.
Wow. I remember even like my first meeting, it was virtual because it was during the pandemic. And I literally dropped into, now I'm kind of in a meeting that was recommended and upfront, right? Like you sort of find meetings that dive with you and with people who are not the same as you, but kind of, yeah, it works well if you feel at home, basically in that group, whatever that means, right? And so they often say, try a few meetings before you decide it's not right for you.
But I remember going to my first virtual meeting. I was like definitely in a crisis situation. And I just went on the website and I found a meeting. I dropped in and I didn't have my camera on. I didn't have my sound on.
And just seeing these people that I didn't know, that I could have seen at the grocery store, that could have passed me on the street, share things that were relatable to me. I just cried continuously. And of kind of relief, but also feeling understood, even though again, didn't share, didn't even.
have my camera on. Yes, yes, yes. No, me too. I also, it was also virtual and I didn't have anything on and I had. no, I was not going to say anything.
But yeah, it is beautiful to be immersed in, how universal a lot of these sadnesses and hardships and triumphs are. It is really beautiful. But when I went, I wasn't like, oh yeah. Like this is it. And I have to, I have to join this club now.
But even though I did leave with some good takeaways and stuff, but you know, Dax just really makes it sound like a really fun party.
It is a fun party. I mean, it's a real party. I actually get uncomfortable if it's too surface for people. So be chill and not ask people, you know, not go into such deep conversation. But so much of the Tall Step program is a belief that you're powerless over whatever is difficult and that there's a higher power that is actually in charge.
And that's religion, right?
Oh, literally.
It's so similar. It's basically a 12 step program feels like going to church, minus, you know, religion. Yeah. Essentially. I mean, it's funny, because at the end, some groups might not do this, but we all hold hands and say the surrounding prayer.
And that part, though, always makes me uncomfortable. And sometimes I'll leave right before because I don't, I'm like, because I don't, it's almost like I don't want to be seen. I don't want to be perceived. I don't want to. Yeah.
So sometimes the handholding, even though you're a very physical person, I know it's very vulnerable. You're all looking, you're all in a circle, all looking at each other, you're all holding hands, and there's something about it where you're too exposed. Sometimes I want, I just want to.
I was thinking this the other day. I think I definitely have a mechanism built in where, if it tips into too overwhelming of an emotion, I really just fully shut down. Like I think there's a actual, when the steel doors close, that happens in my body. Normally, if it's about like my parents or something, I feel it shut because my body and brain knows it just can't handle it. So it's this weird protective.
I've been more in tune with that lately.
Interesting. Yeah. And what's the trigger? What is the situation? Because I'm sure there's situations in real life that remind you of these situations.
Yeah.
I mean, I think right now a little bit is when I'm home, everyone's just aging in a way that makes me so anxious. And my grandpa is really old and has full blown, they don't call it Alzheimer's, but it is. I mean, it is. I don't know. I think my mom and her sisters can't say that word, but that is what it is.
He doesn't know any of us. You know, he's tiny and so fragile. He looks like a completely different person. I mean, he's like, you know, he wears diapers. It's that level.
I can feel myself start to go there and then it stops. Like the steel door has closed. because I was so close with my grandparents, so close. And I spent all my summers in Savannah with them. Then they moved to Atlanta and lived in our neighborhood.
I went there after school every day. Like, bus dropped me off there. He's like one of the only men. You know, it is too much for me to see him and know it's him that we're losing. You know, I've compartmentalized in a pretty crazy way.
that I'm acknowledging is probably pretty crazy.
You're not crazy. It's a crazy situation to be in, right? And it's that ambivalent concept of he's still there, but he's different. And he's not.
He's still there, but he's not there.
He's not there. And you have to live in that reality every day.
And then you spiral. It's like, oh my God, my mom has to do this every day. And she has to like take care of her dad in that way. And then you start, then I'm like, oh my God, what about my dad? You know, it just starts this emotional onslaught.
And I can't, the door gets shut. And I'm not doing it on purpose, but I just realized, well, why am I not feeling anything? It's obviously my brain has protected myself from it.
And even your body, right? Again, if you were like, I can't move and then I stay in for a week and I can't leave my house, I'd be like, okay, that sounds like not. maybe a healthy coping mechanism, but it sounds like you're just protecting yourself, because what is the point of going to that place?
But it almost feels like it's not fair to him that I haven't gone there and I haven't really honored what's gone on.
Do you feel like it's also harder because it's your grandfather? Because I think I'll have so much trouble seeing my dad.
Oh, you mean over your mom?
Yeah. I wonder if there's a part of you that's like, I don't even want to see him as weak as he is, because that would be not how you would want me to see him.
There's a bit of that. There's definitely masculinity tropes with it. Like, even when I was in London with my mom and dad, we were at Starbucks. I don't remember the details. I just remember, I think we must've had a lot of stuff to carry or something.
And I said something like, I'll carry it. I don't remember what happened, but basically my mom kind of shamed my dad and was like, yeah, if she can do it, you should obviously be able to do it. And he was like, not necessarily anymore. Like he had that awareness. My mom just said it so flippantly.
And then, you know, there is this second after of all of us, sitting like, oh, time is passing. Life is so fucking fragile.
I know, I wanted to ask you about Matthew. Yeah, how do you, cause? you know, we did text and stuff, but I wanted to know how you were feeling.
It's so heartbreaking. It just is. But I posted a thing, a small thing, and I really mean it. And that when I, if I see that there's someone who, who just, life, is a struggle in a way that for others, it's not. Um, there's a small piece of me when they pass, that feels relief for them.
There can be peace, because in, in this life, there wasn't any, it's just like, why, why, why can't we all be given a level of peace on earth? You know, it's just very, very sad. And I was at this party with sober friends and immediately for me, it goes into them and I'm so scared that this will happen to them. And then all my stuff, how do I stop that from happening to them? Remember, we all need to be so hyper, aware that this could happen.
And, you know, all of the stuff that I carry all the time is just back, so instantly. So it's just like coming down from that a little bit while holding this, just like this very special person is not here.
Wow.
Oh, also, by the way, real quick, because you were talking about friends. from here until the end of the year, I'm in friends mode. So, like, I'll be watching Halloween episodes today and this week, and then into all the Thanksgiving, Thanksgiving episodes are the best. So I'll watch that. Yeah.
And then Christmas. So I'm just in that mode, always, every year, at this time. And so, but anyway, how are you?
No, I mean, that's, yeah, that's a lot. Um, and I obviously like immediately thought of you and then I, I wanted to text you and I was like, oh, I don't want to. I know she's at it.
Anyway, so it was really sweet. A lot of people did, which was really good. And also kind of like, wow, I, I talk about this so much. Like everyone, everyone knows how impactful that show is to me, which is also like, maybe I should shut up.
No, it's such a beloved show. And we love to see. you love something that much. And the show meant a lot to me. And yeah, it was funny.
rewatching. I mean, I got way more emotional than I thought I would get. And I think, yeah, a lot of people were. And what struck me was just how rewatching it. He's so pivotal to every scene.
He's so talented.
He's so talented and amazing. But also sometimes the story was about him, but often it wasn't. Often he was kind of the B story. Or he would say the thing to the character in the A story to like, develop their character or develop their situation. And the other thing then that I started feeling was I started feeling almost guilty because he helped us through so many things, right?
And whatever friends means to you, or sometimes it's for some people was like, oh, it was a time in my life where I binged a show and this thing happened. Like for me, it really was a continuous thing throughout my life. And I would rewatch the shows constantly. I've seen every episode, probably 10 times. It's always been my go-to thing, but yeah, I got sad because I was like, oh man, like.
the only person in the world who didn't have a Chandler bang is Matthew Perry. Very often, I think, especially for people who are so talented and who, with their art and the way that they express themselves, help so many people laugh. or, again, just artists that help people understand their lives better. They wish that they had an artist like them to help them with what they're going through. And thinking about him and also how he doesn't really want to be remembered for Friends.
Like Friends was really painful for him. And there he is doing it for us and he's not even enjoying it. So it's been a little bittersweet rewatching it, because I've been like, oh, he was not just suffering, but he's doing this for us when he needs so much. Yeah. And he's not asking for it.
I will say, though, I think he did have Chandler bangs, and I think a lot of addicts do. But when you're in your addiction, you can't receive them and you can't take the help and you can't have the friendships because you're tied to this other relationship with your substance. So I do think he had the opportunity. Unfortunately, it's just a very sad disease. That's just for me every time.
It's so sad.
Yeah. And that you said, you know, that night you were like, he was just too sensitive for this world. Yeah. There's this clip going around of all of the cast members saying what they love about him. And they all say like, he's so funny, you know, and Jennifer Aniston says he's so sensitive, and most people don't know that about him.
Addicts are. That's a major takeaway of what I have learned in my relationships with addicts. They're the most sensitive people in my orbit. They can be the most tense and like the hardest to penetrate, and they can have the biggest, just speaking of wall up, but it's again, because they are so sensitive, it's so fragile. Like their ecosystem is so fragile.
It is.
Yeah. So it's just important to remember that.
Yeah.
It's really sad. Okay. Well, we should do a couple questions. Okay. Let's do this because this feels important.
How do I make sense of the mistake I made? This is from Haley. In August, I got arrested for driving while under the influence. I had gone over a year without drinking, not due to addiction, due to me wanting to be the best physical and mental person I could be. I've gone to therapy for four years once a week.
I'm in grad school and I'm almost done. I'll be graduating to be a licensed therapist. I have a 4.0 in honor society. I'm healthy in all respects. My life is the best it's ever been.
I've traveled throughout Italy this summer solo, but this arrest is making me think my entire life is over. I fear I won't ever get a job. I feel as if I will forever be tainted because of an awful mistake. I totally own that it happened and I deserve the punishment, but I can't seem to move on from thinking I deserve nothing but bad things from here on out. How do I give myself grace?
Oh, Haley. It's so easy, when you're not in it, to just be like, of course you deserve grace. And have you ever met a person who hasn't made a mistake? No, no. And I think a way to look at your mistakes, and especially in a case like this, is, wow, it could have been so much worse.
I'm really lucky. And that has taught me that. Like, I'm really lucky. I'll make different decisions so that I don't end up in this one again. But you're doing everything, like, you have to cut yourself some slack.
Because also, sometimes this type of stronghold on perfection leads to these types of mistakes.
Yeah. You know, I have a little affirmation in my phone that says, even your mistakes are perfect.
Oh, that's lovely.
And it's a reminder that, yeah, this mistake happened for a reason. And that actually set you on a different path, that maybe you would have harmed more people or harmed yourself if you hadn't been caught, right, quote, unquote. And so, even though you made a mistake, and I'm almost happy that you did.
I know. Mistakes are crucial. This is the thing. And I understand why, in 2023, it feels like if you make a mistake, your life is over. You're canceled.
You have no redeemable qualities. You'll never get hired. I understand that, because the world kind of does tell you that. But it is really not true. They are crucial for building character.
That's all you have at the end of the day is who you are as your character. It's not your job. It's not your money. It's who you are left with. And mistakes are the thing that get you there.
It's funny, because I was just talking about this in regards to kids. When I was home, my friend was asking us for advice because her daughter, a beautiful, sweetest girl, six years old, had this issue on the playground with another friend. And it was sort of race related. And I feel like everyone handled it beautifully. But I was like, yeah, guess what?
Humans aren't downloaded with all the proper information. You learn it through mistakes. That's actually the only way. Someone just tells you something. You can hear it.
But you won't feel it until you've done it improperly. And then you know. So it's actually a requirement.
And how you react to that mistake, or how you redirect, is way more interesting than even the original mistake, right? Again, Haley's talking about hiring and jobs. I would much rather hire a person who's like, yes, this is on my record. This is what I did. This is what I learned.
I feel deeply this was a bad decision. And here are all the ways that I've learned and grown as a person as a result of it than someone who maybe doesn't have a DUI yet, right?
I feel like that's the only difference.
And if you were coming to us and saying, this happened. It wasn't my fault. I'm now engaging in all these bad behaviors as a result of it because I'm resentful. That would be a different conversation. But you clearly have learned a lot from it and grown as a person.
And how wonderful is that?
Yeah. Go easy on yourself. Get yourself a massage or something. Do something nice for yourself.
Do something nice for Haley. Yeah.
These are great. God, these are. I love. I love our listeners.
Okay, we're gonna do this. one. Boyfriend keeps nude photos of other women in his phone. Can I be upset?
Oh, I'm gonna go with yes.
But please go on. This is from Camille. Hi, Monica and Liz. I'm writing in because I recently found nude photos of other women in my boyfriend's phone. I like to think we're an evolved, right word choice couple.
We watch porn together and have communicated to each other that watching porn is okay. However, I find it to be a different case entirely when there are photos on our phones. The way I explained it is this. He has intimate photos of me in his phone and I don't want to share that real estate with other women. Watching a video on a website is very different from having those photos in our phone.
Is this completely unreasonable or is there an ounce of logic here? He says he doesn't see how it's different. But maybe the sync squad says otherwise. Thanks in advance and I truly enjoy listening to your dismantling of patriarchies and uplifting of an array of voices and experiences. Thank you, Camille.
No, your boyfriend is wrong. Yeah.
Like. there is no gray zone.
He's wrong. if you've said I don't like it. Then that's it. When it comes to these types of gray areas, openness, I do think we're in a moment in time where everyone's trying to be extremely evolved, which is great. And I also think, if you really feel like, I think it's totally fine.
if my boyfriend looks at nude pictures. I actually really don't care. That's awesome. Good for you. But you have to believe it.
The problem is, I think a lot of people think they should be evolved. I have a friend who is in this position a bit where she feels that she should be the cool girl. And I love her so much. She's not. She's not.
And it's okay. It's not who she is. She doesn't have to pretend to be something she's not. And in fact, pretending to then be that always fucking boomerangs back at her and the partner because she ultimately can't sustain something she's not. So it's knowing yourself.
It's about safety. It's how safe do you feel in that relationship. I feel fine with porn. I don't feel safe with pictures of other women on your phone, which I'm going to go ahead and say 95,, if not 99.9% of people would understand and agree. It's not actually a negotiation.
These are where my boundaries are. I don't feel safe in this relationship with that happening.
Yes. And I think sometimes we approach it as like, well, you could do it. I wouldn't mind. But that also doesn't matter. First of all, it's probably not true.
When people say that is also, yeah, it's not happening. So of course you can say that. So it's easier sort of said than done. But second of all, to your original point, it doesn't even really matter what the thing is. I mean, some people are uncomfortable with their partners watching porn, period.
I'm not saying that that's right or wrong, but that's who you are. And if you're in a relationship where that's not happening or that's not at least interested in meeting your needs, then that's the issue, not really the porn and the photos and whatnot.
Yeah. You make the rules of your relationship. You and your partner make rules and things go off the rails when people are not abiding by the rules. The rule can be everyone can do absolutely everything they want, but it's okay to have boundaries. And it's also okay to feel like, maybe this open, polyamorous situation doesn't work for me.
Why do you have to keep them on your phone? You can't even Google.
Are they people he knows? It sounds like it could be.
Otherwise, he could just search it. So once, okay, I was dating this guy. I was young. I was maybe 22 or 21.. He was a little younger, so he's still living with his parents.
And so I talked over. We weren't boyfriend and girlfriend.
Was he 16?.
He wasn't 16.. I might have been 20 and he was like 18 or something.
He was definitely over the age. On the edge. No, maybe he wasn't. Okay. I'm kidding.
It's fine. It's fine.
It was legal. And so I was at his place and his mom was at the dining table, which is so funny to think about those situations as an adult. Like now. how weird that would be.
Did she make you guys breakfast? Probably.
Like, you know, it was normal. And I was talking to his mom. And at one point, I had to get like a train ticket or like a bus ticket, or I don't know what I needed to do. And he was like, oh, here, use my laptop. And I pull open his laptop and it is just naked photos of she's a singer in Quebec.
And so she's kind of known, but he knew her as a friend. And all these nude photos of her were on the laptop. And I'm facing his mom and I'm just seeing this. And that was a deal breaker for me, even though we had never talked about it. We'd never, maybe I hadn't explicitly said that I didn't feel comfortable with that.
But to me, that was like, I can't go back from that. Once that happened, if he was the love of my life, maybe I would have been able to surpass it. But I just think also it shouldn't just be a thing of, hey, I don't like this. I think you should be like, why do you have this?
Right.
It shouldn't be you having to kind of explain why that.
Don't explain yourself. That's the thing. He's the one that has to explain.
And it seems like from the conversation, he's putting it on you.
Which is such a defense mechanism. He obviously feels freaked out that you're upset and doesn't know. And he's like, well, it should be fine. We do this other thing, so that should be fine. No.
You're allowed to say, I don't like that. And why wouldn't you just Google? Since we have this other thing, we allow, what's the point of this?
Yeah. There's something very intimate about that. Is that just a girl thing?
If it's like ex-girlfriends, like that's the only. Oh my God. No, I think she would say that.
That would be crazy.
But you don't really use your photos to download things on your phone. Like it's photos you've taken or you were sent.
Saved. Right.
It's not like you're going on Google image search and downloading photos. Well, unless he, just like, wants quick access, that would be. But that's so lazy. It is. But it kind of feels like that's sort of what it is.
And why to him it's like, whatever, I could just Google.
Right. But it's different.
But yeah, it's also okay. if he thinks that. Right. You can say like, I understand that to you, it's like such a fine line. But to me, it's actually a really strong line.
Right.
How would you feel if you were in a relationship and.
Naked ladies.
Naked ladies.
I'm fine with porn. I mean, I feel bad because I have people in my life who really are against it.
Oh, really? Yeah. Who are against their partners watching it. I used to feel that way when I was young. And now I'm like, it's unrealistic to.
Right. But then there's like porn addiction, whatever. It's a whole thing. So exactly. Barring that there's porn addiction happening, I'm fine with it.
And I guess, if I'm. If my boyfriend had like a porn star or something, a porn that they loved. And then there was like an image from it or something that they love. No, I don't think I'd like it. Well, also.
It's so hard. It is hard because I think it would be very dependent on the image.
And the person maybe.
If it aligns with your taste.
Definitely, obviously, definitely no one, they know. But if it's someone they don't know. Look, I hate to say this, but I'm like, is it someone who, like, looks so different from me? That would trigger me. In a good or bad way?
Bad.
Oh, you want them to look. So if it's a porn star that looks like you.
Because for my ego, it would be stressful if it was like this whole blonde, flat chested person model. I would feel, oh, fuck, like they can't have that. They're obviously not getting that with me. So they'd have to go seek it out over here. But if it's someone who like, looks like me, I think I could say, like, man, they just love my type.
They just love my type. That's so funny.
So if they look like you, then you like it.
That's a good rule.
If the porn star looks like me, it's okay.
That's just my own personal. What triggers me versus what doesn't trigger me. If they want to look, get porn, I guess I prefer that it's someone who looks like me. Yeah. Because then I'm like, they like brown skin girls.
Yeah. Well, I would see how even sometimes exes, right? You've seen who they've dated before and you're like, it can breed insecurity if, again, it's very different from what you look like or how you are.
But it goes both ways, right? Actually, because sometimes if I know someone has dated like a couple other Indian girls, then I'm like, they just have a type. And that's annoying.
I never understand your eye rolls when that happens. Because I've been on Instagram with you. You're like, oh, of course. And I'm like, wait, why do you like him less?
Because there's something that feels like, is it a fetish?
Oh, okay.
And I'm so not interested in being that for you. I want you to like me and then find me attractive and like those parts of me, like the diverse parts of me, but not seek me out because I am.
You have a weird thing. It's small.
I guess it's like a small caveat. And then, yeah. So back to the porn thing, if they're just searching Indian women, I think I like that because I do have such an insecurity about that part of me. And there's all this vestigial stuff like, well, you just can't be as hot as a white person. You just never will be.
So the idea that someone on their free time, they're like, is searching for this look physically. I like it. But then, yeah, why don't I like the other thing? I'm saying two things at the same time. I recognize that, so I don't really get it.
I mean, my response is also, the most beautiful women I know are Indian women.
It's just a fact. Well, then, you're the type.
No, it's not because I'm weird. No, I don't mean that.
I don't mean that. I'm not putting you in the positive category. There's now two categories. There's the type who are looking at Indian porn, who I like. And then there's the type who are just dating Indian women, who I don't.
But you could say, if I'm dating someone and he's only dated tall white girls, I could say, oh, that's a fetish. It could be the same thing, right? He just wants me for this.
You know, it's not. Okay, okay. Because it's not. This is a minority group, but very specific. And there's also something about when it's dating versus when it's just sexual attraction.
Oh, I see.
And dating is like, we're not all the same, bro. So like, why are you just picking this visual? If you're dating someone, you're going to get different. You know what I mean?
No, yeah, I do.
It's so specific. Right. We've got six minutes and ads to do.
Well, my God, we're going deep.
So deep. I love it. But yeah, porn. Anyway, I think we answered it. You're allowed to have your boundaries.
Totally. And you should feel empowered to have them. We don't have time to do any more today. We'll be back. And we should do a tradition.
We should. In between now and next week.
I love that.
Let's establish. Even though I said that's the opposite of how you should do. it is deciding you're going to have one. We will.
We will. And share, if you have ones with your friends and how you keep them alive. Yes. Yeah. So we can get.
Also, we were supposed to talk about if you gave anyone compliments, but we didn't have time.
And I got sick.
And you were sick.
I know. I'll do it this week.
Okay. I'll do it. this week. We have a lot of homework.
A lot of homework. I love it, though. Yeah, it's fun. It's a whole syllabus. Okay.
I'll see you next week. Love you.
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