Episode 443: The Horrific Murder of Marina Calabro with Jonathan Van Ness

Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free on Wondery Plus. Oh my fucking God. Jonathan Van Ness was on the show today, people.

Guys, this was such a fun episode. I'm still. What's the word reeling? reeling, reeling?

Reeling Jonathan Van Ness is a sweetheart. We love them, we adore them. We from my dreams.

We kiss the ground they walk on. Truly, this was amazing, such a delight. We had a lot of fun.

We were laughing, we were joking about a lot of stuff, but we also had a really gnarly true crime case pushed in there somewhere. But I just want to let you guys know, we have a lot of chit-chat, we talk about vanderpump rules. Oh, I had to fill JVN on the T, but don't worry.

I feel like me and you are going to have a more detailed discussion next episode. Yeah, I think we are. We can't get over this vander, this, the scandal of all of it all, scandal of all. But yeah, this was a lot of fun.

This was definitely, definitely a chit-chatty episode, but I promise you guys, there's a very, very intense true crime case thrown in there as well. Yes, and the reason why we picked this specific case is because it was in Quincy. And Jonathan is from Quincy. So we were thinking like, Oh, let's tell him about our Quincy, cause he's from Quincy, Illinois.

We did a Quincy Massachusetts case, see what we did there, see what we did, see what we did there. But I mean, without further ado, here it is.

Like, you learn to be a gymnast, you are a standup comedian, you're a hairdresser, you're a beautiful soul. You're also from our dreams.

Welcome to the show.

Morbid like, super, I'm literally like, I love you so much. I love you so much. I. you're like, I, I can't believe I'm here.

Yeah, you know, it is, yeah, yeah.

But like I told you earlier, I only watch Bravo.

There's a giant scandal happening right now, a huge scandal.

But she didn't do anything, she didn't do anything, she's an innocent bystander, she is.

Nine years ago, they've been together for nine years, they literally have a house together, essentially common law married, right? That takes up what?

Seven years, yeah, I mean, they're for all intents and purposes together. So then this girl, Raquel, joins the show.

Fun fact name is not even. Raquel found out recently on the TikTok that her name is Rachel, so we're not calling her Raquel anymore, We're calling her Rachel because she's a dirty gal. And she has been carrying on a relationship with Tom Sandoval, who has been with Ariana Maddox. I don't know if it's Ariana or Ariana because they interchangeably use it on the show, but we love her regardless.

I fucking team Ariana all the way. But he has been carrying on a relationship like behind closed doors with Raquel for seven months at least. I also just found out today, on good authority, that they spent Christmas together.

So that's not good. Ariana is sitting at Tom's show last Wednesday night because he also has a cover band called Tom. And the Most Extras, or something like that. He is extra and his phone slips out of his pocket.

She grabs it off stage so he doesn't step on it. What a kind soul Ariana is. She's scrolling through the phone and she finds an inappropriate video of Raquel and then discovers the whole seven months, all the receipts.

All of them. And it was at the same time that Raquel was on. Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen in New York, alongside Sheena happening at the same time, who has also been on Vanderpump Rules forever.

And we do not condone violence on this podcast. No, allegedly no, I'm just kidding. So Sheena is Ariana's best friend.

But has also been friends with Raquel because she doesn't know what a dirty girl she is, so they're out and about. And then Ariana calls Sheena her best friend, and is like, Sheena, like, Are you with Raquel? I need to talk to her because what the fuck is going on? So Sheena finds out, and then allegedly she throws Raquel's phone into the street.

Throws Raquel up against a brick wall, punches her in the face, and then the rest, we don't really know.

Or Tom Tom, Okay, Tom tom.

And, um, it makes me want to ask her, like, what she saw?

It's like, No, you don't love her. No, you don't. What happened?

Can you please text me the full story? And in the next 20 minutes, please?

That was terrible, thanks.

Get the story, goodbye. That was terrible.

So it was like, big deal even for that. But then when it turned into Tom Sandoval, it's like, Well, he's currently in a relationship. So Rachel has now, like, I don't even like, what's the word like? defied two of her friends. Yeah.

And Ariana was like her best friend, one of her best friends.

She struck him with her motor vehicle, she had been under the influence, and then she left him there. In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of family? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion and after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision to end in a mistrial. It's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

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OK, four brothers and sisters.

It's giving scandal. Oh, brother, sister, they're both married. OK, brother and sister are married to their own partners. OK, sister's got a husband.

Brother's got a wife. oh, sister's husband, brother's wife start having an affair, and I have a whole affair.

And how you got? It's not. It's always not true, like sometimes people do have horrific affairs and then they do end up together.

You don't even fucking know about the Atlanta fucking Games. The first time that a women's United States gymnastics team won a gold medal in an uncontested games. Were you so busy watching Bravo your whole life that you never even got into the Olympics? Not once?

Don't watch it.

Resounding bad? No, that's actually terrible.

OK, wait, what's the last thing?

Which is such, Oh my God, it is, it is the. It is probably one of the most iconic Olympic moments in history.

So amazing.

No, no, but that's all.

So I could have taken us to the Olympics like she could have been my momager if she would have just done that.

And I don't know.

So I believe.

That's that's actually how I figured out how old I was going to be.

I'm December 28th of 1985, so like, I'm right.

And you're the sprinkle of glitter on top.

Remember when a random lady on your street gave us snappies and we ate them with no questions asked? She said. I grew these in my garden and we said, Okay, and then later we were like, What? Yeah, I think we talked about it on the podcast.

We did that night, we were like, Oh my God, do you feel funny? I feel fine. Do you feel fine?

We felt fine. She really grew them in her garden, they were good.

It seemed like a farmer basket. You should go buy her. Yeah, she was great.

No, I didn't do that, I took them. How can you take a lady's snappies and not eat them? Yeah.

Well, we should chat about all the happiest things in the world because my story is not wholesome. No, it's not happy.

So it all started on December 19th, 2001.

Anthony Calabro returned home to the house that he shared with his great aunt Marina in Quincy. Of course, Marina from Quincy. Rest in peace, Marina from Quincy. Because when he walked in, he found his aunt dead at the bottom of a flight of stairs.

Now? Initially, the authorities believed that the 84-year-old had slipped and fallen to her death. Because obviously, that's a pretty rational thought to have. Sadly, a lot of older people living by themselves can fall and hurt themselves and worse things can happen. But just 10 months later, the authorities came to a very different conclusion. The scene had been staged and Marina had been placed at the bottom of the stairs to make it seem like her death was an accident.

Scary, I hate this already. Yeah, it's pretty rough. So in time, detectives came to realize that her death had actually been orchestrated by her 19-year-old great nephew Anthony. With the help of his two teenage friends, he killed Marina and they staged a cover-up in order to inherit the money that she was going to leave him in her will.

Because always, always, it's always about money in the will, always. So. The murder obviously completely shocked the residents of Quincy. And it left so many people wondering how three teenagers could brutally kill an 84-year-old woman in cold blood like this.

That's what always amazes me is when these people can get in a group like you can get more than one person. That's like, let's murder this 84-year-old woman, and they're like, Yeah, that's a great idea, like, how do you get like-minded people like that?

That's the thing that's so scary that all three of them sat there one day and had that conversation, and then had further conversations to plan the whole thing. It's like, what?

So Marina really was well-loved, and her neighbors were especially surprised and obviously very disappointed when they found out that she had died. She was well-known in town. She had retired in the mid-90s, but before that she had been a fixture at the Marvel beauty Salon, where she worked for over 40 years. Oh my God, Marina, a hairstylist like us.

Now, when she retired, she focused all of her time on maintenance and upkeep of a multifamily duplex that she owned on Bedford Street. And she had inherited that from her parents when they passed years earlier. So she really wanted to, like, take care of this place. Her neighbor told reporters. She was a champ. Her lawn was always kept nice.

And even when it snowed, she was out there, shoveling. Marina and other neighbors said they loved her. She always had a pleasant presence and she would always flash a quick wave when somebody passed, and she always had candy for the kids.

Oh, stop it. She fished out a little caramel or a little strawberry, one of those little strawberry hard candies. Hell yeah, Marina, I do too.

I love those so much, I actually want those right now, and I love a Werther's going to CVS after this now. Marina, she was a bad bitch.

She did not let retirement slow her down at all. She kept in shape, walking everywhere. She was constantly doing her own yard work, like we know, and she just like, wanted to do things around the house constantly. She was like a doer.

So people were shocked when they heard that she had slipped down the stairs. They were like, I don't know. She's in, like, really good shape, and she's constantly doing stuff like, agile, exactly. So they were confused. But the medical examiner concluded that it was a straightforward case of blunt neck trauma from a slip and fall accident that had resulted in her death.

And that was all there was to it, he said. Until 10 months later, when the authorities kind of started to grow suspicious of Marina's great nephew Anthony. Because he had been spending a lot of money not long after her death. It's like, Idiot, you're so dumb. So two years earlier and this is the thing. She had invited him and his two friends to stay with her at her home, so they'd been living there for like two years.

And after her death, the three of them continued living in the duplex on Bradford Street, and the neighbors were not thrilled about it. One neighbor said of their time there, they would throw out trash from the second floor balcony. And the house. Just went to pot after that, which I've never heard, went to pot, you've never heard that.

No, that's funny.

Anthony even had a new puppy, which, like, What are you doing with a puppy in that environment? Take that dog away from him immediately. And he already had a dog. He had one dog, and then, after his aunt was killed, he bought another one. How do you have dogs and kill an old lady?

I have absolutely no idea. How do you reconcile those two parts of yourself? That's like a dichotomy in half, that's a lot it really is.

I hope so, too, I would, I absolutely would, Marina would, no doubt.

In my mind, Marina was in those halls, Marina from Quincy was haunting his ass, for sure. Yeah, she had her blow dryer turned on all the hours of the day.

She was like, Fuck you.

I was just going to say they were close enough that she did that. That's a big deal. She put him in her will, and she invited him to live there with his friends, like, come on now.

He was supposed to get more than $200,000 cash once she had died.

Yeah, like, just really. He got big screen televisions and this is a quote. More than $80,000 on military equipment, including grenade launchers, for Ware, Lally and himself.

Those are his two friends. I'm sorry, what?

No, my grandma would be so proud of me, my grandma. You pronounce every freaking syllable, so that's probably why I say it, exactly.

But it's also so interesting, like looking at you guys when you talk, cause I'm like, wow, like, now, you know, now, you know, who says what that whole time?

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like, at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering, super bad.

Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here, something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline, and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.

Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

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They're buying grenade launchers, and, according to their friend Jim Morrill, I hope I'm saying that, right. The boys had quote "'dreamed about becoming mercenary soldiers, which is what the whole grenade launcher was about. And now that they had the money, they were stockpiling weapons at this point, weird.

Now Jim, he had spent three or four days a week at Anthony's house, both before and after Marina had been killed, and Jim had dreams of becoming a professional musician. And he actually played in a band with Anthony and his friend Weir, and the band was called Electronic Kill Machine. Which, like, honestly, lame name, if you ask me, yeah, that one doesn't do the whole like, Hello, Cleveland.

We are electric kill machine. No, I'm out, I'm leaving, it doesn't work. Yeah, I've already left.

Left the building now. Apparently they were doing all right because they had already released a CD, a compact disc, and they were hoping to release another one now that they had the money. But Jim's enthusiasm for the band and his friends, it took a serious nosedive in late October of that year. The thing that, like, really turned things on their side was when Anthony confided in him that they had all murdered Marina, the great aunt.

Jim didn't really love that. Well, good for Jim. Yeah, I'm glad Jim did not love that, But Jim had questions. He was like, Why did you kill great aunt Marina?

Like, why would you ever do that? I would also have that question, and Anthony was like, Yeah, like, I can't just wait around for her to die of natural causes. Oh my gosh, like you're a disgusting human.

You can't just wait around. He's a vile human. Why don't you spend time with her? Why don't you find out what she did in her life? Why don't you stop being a dick?

Ask her about the salon. Yeah, right, ask her about running this duplex. Well, and as we know, there are so many good stories in a salon, I can't imagine 40 years worth of salon stories.

Could have said something.

Good Jim, we love Jim. Jim is who we're fighting for. There you go. So, actually, and he had to sit through a whole car ride home with Anthony first.

To make a report, kid, to make a report. So, Jim worked with Quincy detectives on a plan to get his friend's confession on tape, and just a few days later, that plan was set into motion. Is there a wire?

There's a wire, mama, Oh, I love a wire. So Jim meets up with Jason Ware, one of the friends at McDonald's in Norton. I have been there, I used to go there all the time in high school.

Damn crazy. I wasn't there when this happened. No, Jason didn't know it, but Jim was wearing a wire.

And he was about to hear exactly what had happened the day that Marina was killed. Can you imagine how stressful it would be to wear a wire? No, I can't even fathom it. Especially in a scenario where, like, like, in a scenario different than this, where, like, somebody could potentially, like, feel you for a wire. Yeah, or in a place like, not a public place.

If you're like, in their house, or they're in your house which happens, or in a car or something. Oh, terrifying. Have you ever watched Good Girls?

So this is what happened. It happens in the wire, too, that makes sense. That's also a great series. I need to watch that.

I've been meaning to watch that, that's a good one. Yeah, well, great theme song, too.

Agreed, so on the afternoon of December 19th, Anthony, Thomas, Lally and Jason Ware. They drove to Marina's house. And Anthony waited in the car with his dog, the one that he already had, while the other boys went inside. So he couldn't even do this himself. By the way, I'm kind of glad, I guess, but I'm not glad at all because the story is awful.

I hate all of it. So Marina was out that day doing what Marina did. She was probably giving children candy, taking care of her lawn. She's like being an amazing human being. And when she got home, she was surprised to find the two boys in her kitchen.

And even more so when she saw that there was newspaper lying everywhere on the ground and all the surfaces. The newspaper had been put down earlier because they decided it would soak up the blood now. As she moved closer into the kitchen, she was met by Thomas Lally, who was holding a cast iron skillet that he had taken from the cabinet. Marina was obviously terrified, so she was like, What are you doing with that?

And he replied, This is what I'm doing with this. And brought the cast iron skillet down on her head. With such force, this is a quote that the handle broke off.

Also, you're fucking gross, like, I love that he had the whole like. This is what I'm doing with this. Like, fuck off, you're a 19 year old. This woman has lived her whole fucking life for you, you piece of shit and garbage to do this to her.

And they're 19.

Like, 19 is well above the age, of course it is, and one of them, that shenanigans should be happening. Yeah, they were like, two of them are 19 and one was 17..

Yeah, it's like you are way too old.

Get fucked.

Oh my God, and he's yelling, she's yelling for Anthony for help. Oh, that hurts my heart. So she started screaming. And he, Lally grabs a yellow tea kettle from the stovetop, and he beat her with that, even after she fell to the ground. And when she was down, he climbed on top of her and started to manually strangle her with his hands.

But she was fighting back, she scratched at his face, she bit his arm, and she was screaming. So when he realized how difficult it is actually to strangle somebody, he instead held a small pillow over her face, yelling Let go, given Anthony wants it this way. Oh, like, that's what she heard in her dying moments was that her great-grand-nephew had wanted this to happen.

Just was like, Wow, like you are a soulless piece of garbage. You should never be allowed around people ever again, never so.

Before doing anything else, they thoroughly washed Marina's body. They were trying to get rid of any kind of evidence, but she had scratched. I was just going to say she took some evidence with her, though, and she bit him.

Then they carried her to the top of the stairwell and dumped her body down the stairs to make it seem like she'd fallen.

Wild, I'm also like-.

That's true, which means any of those wounds, you could tell whether they were done post or PERI, or even PERI. So I think the medical examiner probably was like, Oh, like, look, she fell down the stairs and, like, didn't look too much further. I was going to say, that's like, not good.

I feel like a lot of them are randomly curved, or they're just like really long and thin. So like, I guess that could cause a lot of damage. Especially if you went, you know, head over feet, right, exactly, but like, but still like, pre and post. Like you were saying, it was going to take time to wash her up and everything.

There would also, I feel like, I know that they put down the newspapers, but it's like there would be some spray. Like that hit would cause some kind of splash. Well, and especially if she had, like, pulled it back, yeah, yeah.

I'm like, no one found that. It sounds to me like they were just very ready to, yeah, open and shut. Found her at the bottom of the stairs. She's 84. She fell. Work here's done, wow.

And I don't know about the crime rate in Quincy, but I'm sure it's not like a very quiet area. No, so I think they probably were like, maybe overloaded, you could think I could see that. Yeah, so.

So they did all of that, unbelievable. Later that day, they cleaned the apartment, they gathered up the bloody newspapers, and then they drove to Norton, where they dropped Weir off at his parents house. And Anthony and Lally went on to dispose of the frying pan and the tea kettle in a pond before heading back to Quincy. Now. Anthony and Lally waited at the apartment until 11 o'clock at night and then called the police to report that Anthony had come home and found his beloved deer. Aunt. Like this, wow.

So police found out from the Weir that that's exactly what had happened, and they were all three arrested. So he was just like, Yeah, he told the whole story, Wow. Now. When it came time for the trial, all three of them actually pleaded not guilty. Which I'm like, Honey, is that you on the weir?

Because, like we all heard that, yeah, now. Lally pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder. Anthony for first degree murder. Accessory before the fact to murder and conspiracy to commit murder, and Weir for first degree murder and conspiracy to commit murder.

But all three trials actually were hung up for, like, years and years because of administrative and pre-trial matters. All that kind of stuff, bullshit, stupid stuff. But by March of 2006, all the respective hurdles had been cleared, and Thomas Lally was the first to go on trial. Bye Lally.

Bye now in his opening remarks, I have to laugh when I say this because it's Norfolk.

Norfolk County District Attorney Robert Nelson There's like, no other way to say it. Yeah, that's how you say it. It's not Norfolk, right? it's Norfolk.

Yeah, Norfolk. The district attorney, Robert Nelson. He told the jury about how the boys had planned the murder months in advance. So this was months in advance. They planned this. They developed a strategy after visiting websites and watching TV shows about how to get rid of forensic evidence.

Oh, God. And according to Norton Calabro, Anthony there and the other boys did this because they thought they were going to inherit more than 700,000. When Marina died and they would split, they said that Anthony told the boys they would split it evenly.

It's like, number one, I don't know who you think you are. Like, you're not getting $700,000 and clearly he's not gonna split it equally with you. No, of course he's not. And also that's sweet Aunt Marina.

What the fuck are you doing? yeah.

Now, in exchange for their participation, Weir was expecting a $28,000 pickup truck and Lally thought he was gonna get his amount in cash. But at the end of the day, Weir only received $6,500, which still is a lot of money. And Lally got somewhere between eight and 10,000. Because he had been the one to do everything, wow.

So, you know, that was like, nine, something. If that, it's like, also, no amount of money is worth it. To murder a sweet old woman in her home and to like brutally while she's calling for her nephew.

Yeah, oh God, that part, that's what kills me, like that part, yeah.

Marina from Quincy. But now the good thing? Well, it's like a good and bad thing, but it works out. Because the evidence against Lally, it was largely circumstantial, but it was just circumstantial, excuse me. But it was still significant when the police arrived at Anthony's house on the night of the murder. They actually had noted, which, I'm like, you noted this, and you still said that it was not a murder.

They noticed that he had scratches on his face and a bite mark on his arm. And they asked him about it that night, actually, and he said he got them during a fight with Anthony earlier that day. No, no, like girl.

You check that, I have to go, you check that. But later on, they ended up searching Lally's home and they found scraps of the newspapers that had been laid out. And Jim was able to direct them to the pond, where they had dumped the cast iron skillet and the tea kettle.

And they recovered those items with the help of a dive team. So these boys, I wonder where the pond was were fucked. It was in Norton. Oh, it was one of the Norton ponds.

Holy shit, I bet you know which one it is. Ooh. So the most damning was the testimony from Jason Weir he actually agreed to testify against Lally in exchange for a reduced charge.

He was gonna get manslaughter with a maximum sentence of 10 years. So on the stand, Weir admitted to being in the apartment. And he said he may have tried to restrain Marina and actually even handed Lally the pillow. That was what killed her, but it was Thomas who had struck her with all those blows that had killed her.

I'm sorry if you held down an 84 year old who had already been bludgeoned, you're a fucking monster, too. And also to sit there and be like, What's his name, Jason, Jason?

Yeah, and also to be like, Well, I may have restrained her, but I don't remember. It's like, Fuck off, you don't remember murdering someone? Oh, I do.

Jason, I hate you just as much. I hate Jason, I hate Thomas. I hate everybody. fuck you, Jason.

But yeah, so he said that, and then he told the jury in the days leading up to the murder that Lally had made several comments to suggest that he was actually excited about going through with this and that afterwards. Ware was so scared to report the crime because of all that, and he feared retaliation from Lally. And that's why he didn't tell anybody.

It's like, No, you didn't tell anybody because you held her down and you handed a pillow that smothered her to death. I was gonna say, that's the thing, you know, you were a pivotal, you played a pivotal role in this whole thing. That's why you didn't say anything.

Exactly, don't play with me, Jason, fuck off, don't fucking play around here. So arguing in Lally's defense, which like, I don't know how you do that.

Attorney Robert Griffin told the jury that the police and the prosecutor had gotten everything wrong. He said Jason Ware is the one who killed Marina Calabro. No. But he told the jury that the DNA evidence collected at the scene was not a match for Lally, who had simply gone along with his friends. It's like, I love that.

That's a defense, sure. It's like this 19 year old was peer pressured into brutally bludgeoning an 84 year old to death, like, I'm sorry, am I supposed to go? Oh, okay?

Don't throw him in jail, then it's fine. Yeah, make him pay a fine. don't worry about it, he'll get over it.

And also, like she had had plenty of people over in, like the days and stuff before that, like that could have been anybody's DNA. We all know what happened here, yeah. They continued living in her house and using her money to buy grenade launchers.

Jesus, we know what happened. Yeah, he said. He was not the mastermind Anthony was.

And he was not the murderer. Jason was, oh he, just nothing to do with it, exactly so.

Finally, Thomas Lally there took the stand for himself in his own defense, and he told the jury that it was Jason Ware who had killed the woman. Oh my God. They were like, Okay, okay, okay, sounds good, and then they deliberated for five hours.

And when they came back, they found Thomas Lally guilty. Oh good, okay. On first degree murder. I was like, I swear to God, if you give me a not guilty. We're like, I will leave, don't you do it?

And the Superior Court Judge Charles Grabow, I wanna say it is sentenced Lally to the mandatory sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. And then the Norfolk District Attorney. There was a lot of emphasis on that there. Sorry. He said that he was satisfied with the outcome. But, he, quote, remained troubled by the savagery of her death, which, like, same very savage now. It seems like Thomas. Lally's conviction definitely put some fear into Anthony, because in June of 2006, just a couple of months after Lally was sentenced, Anthony ended up changing his tune.

And he decided that he was going to be pleading guilty to the second degree murder of his great aunt. Please, it's like, first degree, you planned it, he cried before the court. He said he played a role in her death.

And he said, I'm disgusted with myself, I'm disgusted with my lack of action and attempting to stop it or anything else for that matter. You mean, when she was calling out for you and also like to stop it, like, you continued. Even after she died, you divvied out her money to your friends who you had hired to kill her. Yeah, he's so sad that he didn't stop doing that.

You're sorry you got caught? Yeah, your tears mean nothing, exactly. And that's how the judge felt, too.

And he sentenced him to life in prison, with the possibility of parole after 15 years. Hate that?

She got fired for that damn now. In January of 2022, Anthony was granted parole.

Yup, fuck. He had been denied once in 2017. But given his age at the time of the crime and his record of good behavior while in prison, probably because there's no old ladies to kill. The parole board felt that he had been rehabilitated and was a suitable candidate for parole. And they specifically cited his participation quote in numerous prison programs, including one called Alternatives to Violence. It's like, Well, I'm glad he participated in that.

So then like 21, he was like 39..

What are you capable of for somebody you don't know? Now? According to the terms of his parole, he'll be released to a minimum security facility. And he was gonna stay there for a year and then after that he would be released. Quote on a home plan that would include a curfew and electronic monitoring. So we have that to settle our stomachs.

Okay, now, in May of 2022, so pretty. Recently, Jim Morrill's story of being a voluntary undercover agent on behalf of the Quincy Police Department was featured on the Discovery Channel. Series I went Undercover, Oh, and the series producer told the Patriot Ledger This series is all about regular people taking great risks and going undercover. When we heard about Jim's story and his bravery, it was a natural fit for the series.

So yeah, that is the story of two, three actually fucking crazed individuals, three pieces of shit who murdered sweet sweet Marina Marina. May she rest in peace.

Because that was really sad.

Like, he loves that.

Love.

Do you put ice cream on them? No, but that sounds great. Butter. You put a little butter on the crust. Oh no, you put butter on the whole last thing.

Okay, good, you know what I do?

Same and I am getting married in 33 weeks and these hips, they do lie, they do lie.

Yeah, we'll actually do it.

It's kind of like an uneven.

But then once I understood, like, what it looks like in real life versus what it looks like on TV, like in an unscripted way. Now I like, I appreciate more of like lighting and like, how long it would have took. Yeah, there's like more art there that I think you would appreciate if you just would give yourself the chance.

Oh yeah, okay, yeah.

Elena doesn't, nobody does, no way, nobody has time for two weeks.

JONATHAN But not so weird that what?

I just did it justice.

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