Episode 484: The Alleged Smurl Family Haunting pt 2

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. What's the answer, and what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free on Wondery. Plus. Okay, you guys went ham sandwich and ordered so many lunar dials in the pre-sale there.

I was like, Oh my God, you became entire. Ham hoagies is what you were. What's a ham hoagie? what is that?

Isn't it like a sub? But somewhere else there, they call them hoagies. Oh, a sub is a hoagie. Yeah, I thought I was going to say, a hob is a soagie.

Hell yeah, target, target, Barnes and Noble, Barnes and Noble.

And Amazon starting August 1st, and you can buy it there. Baby, play the game, play it, play it so hard.

Go get it lunar dial you bunch of hoagies starting in August, August.

Hey weirdos, I'm Alina, I'm Ash, and this is morbid.

Look at you following my lead.-Ah, that's me. lead-ah, that's me. you're a leader.

I'm a follower. No, I'm a lead-ah, you're a lead-ah, I'm a follow-ah. Literally not at all.

Actually, I feel like we're both lead-ahs. I would like to think that, no, I'm just like balling in my own court. Absolutely, as you should.

Yeah, you know, yeah, don't ball in other people's courts, literally don't ball in other people's courts.

Don't do that, get on your own court, guys. This has nothing to do with what we were just talking about right now. We didn't have a plan going into this for, like, a small talk, but I think I just dropped some good wisdom on you.

I think you did, because usually we have like some points we want to hit and then we just let it go from there. Yeah, we had nothing when we went into this. So we're just I'm flying off the seat of my pants, but I thought about it. And Halloween stuff is out right now. And I gotta tell you, we're almost in August and I feel like my soul is coming alive. It's like an awakening.

Because I feel spooky season is upon us. Actually, the other night I went outside, like, probably, I don't know, like 8 or 9 o'clock. And I smelled the air and I said to myself, that smelled a little bit like fall. And I said that to Drew and he just looked at me, like, what the fuck is wrong with you? He's like, It's July. I was like, not where I'm from.

Not in my soul, not in this court, not in my heart. No, it's not July in my heart.

Although I'm getting a little bit like, not really, but I'm getting like, kind of sad. Because I gardened for the first time this year, like you saw my garden the other day, I did. It's pretty badass, she's fucking thriving.

She is. I feel like I'm gonna be a little so sad when I can't garden anymore. I don't feel that way, but I will feel bad for you. Yeah, you know.

I'll empathize with you, well, I can still garden. Sorry, I was correcting my own. I was like, I won't empathize, I'll sympathize.

I will not empathize, I'm not gonna empathize, but I will sympathize. I'll give you a little sympathy, yeah.

No, I think obviously you can still garden in the fall, but then, like when the winter hits, I'll be so happy during the holidays, but then I'll just be like, my garden is gone. I mean, I'm looking forward to that song that you're gonna create. Do I just sing it to you when I come in, that single that you're gonna drop in the winter?

That's what I'm excited about. It's called ball in your own court, but you know what else is happening right now? Pub day, pub day, Pub Day, it's paperback pub day for the butcher and the wren, and you can go get it anywhere.

You get books, and also it has a sneak peek of the sequel, that's right, it has a fucking chapter from the sequel. Yeah, bitch.

In it, so you can get started before anybody else reading the sequel except me get on it, I read it.

Get on it, not the whole sequel, but I did read a lot of it, some chunks. Yeah, this bitch is a scary girl.

What did I say to you the other day? You did? And I said, put that on a quote on the front of it, why didn't we write it down? I think I said, Oh, I said. Being in her inner orbit truly scares me. Dot, dot, dot, and she's my sister.

Yeah, and I thought that was a great quote. Yeah, it should be on the book jacket, it was something like that.

I think it was a little bit better, to be honest, I liked it. But either way, it's fun to have another pub day. Yeah, pub days are fun.

You guys have been fucking amazing buying the book and buying the paperback and just giving me all kinds of like support and just like support. Hoorah, you know?

And I appreciate it. Is that a hoorah, I feel the Hoorahs, I like that for you, like they really give it to, and I love you guys for that.

Hoorah, you know, hoorahs hoo-fucking-rah, yeah.

So go get that paper book, paper book, and the paperback, even paper book back, you know, paperback book, even if you feel.

Get that as well, and guess what, by the time you listen to this? Alina will have gone into targets across not the whole state or even half of it. Some of them she's going to go into target, though.

Yeah, and she's going to sign some books. So if you're lucky enough to go into a target that Alina signed the book in, you could buy that signed book, you could have that book. It works like that.

That's what happened to me. I've never gone and bought a book that, like the author, signed, so I feel like that's a special moment. Oh, I'd be excited for authors that I love, but it's wild to me that people feel that way about my signature, I was going to say.

You're, this is a crazy sentence, you're an author that people love. Yeah, that still hasn't sunk in there, whoa.

That has not sunk in there. I have just just to end our little chat in the beginning so we can get to the case. No, never end it, never end it, don't end our chat.

Keep going, No, I was just going to say, guys, go read The Troop by Nick Cutter. It's a really good book. she's been talking about that a lot, It's a great book.

I highly recommend it. It's pretty brutal. Didn't even Stephen King say something about it? Stephen King said? It was scary. It scared the hell out of him.

So that's what drew me to it. That's big. And I thought he was. Nick Cutter is a great writer. I thought it was phenomenal. I'm still chugging my way down the Paris memoir.

I feel like we're going to be years later, you're going to be like, I'm almost done with that. I'm trying to start reading for leisure again, because we read a lot for work, obviously, so I'm trying to read for leisure again. But it's not really working out for me. It's tough to shoehorn it in there sometimes in the schedule, but it's important and it feels great it does.

Read your mind, words and books and smells of them. Are you ready to start talking about the rotten meat smell again? That was going down in the SMURL house? I am always ready to talk about the rotten meat smell that's going down in the SMURL house. Let's go.

It's really the only way I could transition to this new conversation that we're about to have. Yeah, there's no real segue. I'm pretty sure we're leaving most of the rotten meat smell in part one, but let's recap there we go.

Yeah, transitions and sugoos, there you go, Who says sugoo? And that's why we drink.

Go listen to them. Yeah, we say that all the time, but do it? go listen, listen.

Listen.

I lost my train of thought. But yeah, so in part one, we were talking about the SMURl family. And I think in the beginning, I was telling you guys, how like this article dropped in this fucking newspaper and everybody was like, Holy shit, this family's really going through it. Yeah, and then I told you about some of the things that happened. We had a small house fire.

As I was telling you about a fire, it got sinister, it got sinister and dark sided, dark sided. So go listen to part one.

Yeah, what if I just did the whole story in that accent? I think some people would stick around, probably some people would.

A few, it's fun, the real ones would stick around, the real ones, the OGs.

But yeah, so we had a small house fire of our own. And then when I left you guys off in part one, everybody was like, especially Janet. Smurl was like, I really need to talk to everybody about this. And everybody was like, I think you're cuckoo nuts, bananas, yeah.

I don't know why I said banana like that, but I did, bananas, bananas. I'm like a minion. And then Ed and Lorraine stepped on the scene.

As they do, as they do, as they are known to do so. As soon as Ed and Lorraine showed up. And you know, it was clear to the SMURLs that they believed in whatever was going on in the house. That was a huge sigh of relief for them because that is something they provide.

A huge sigh of relief. They provide unwavering support. Do you speak from personal experience? I just feel like, if you're going to, if you're going to have something like this happening to you. Ed and Lorraine are going to come in and they're going to go. We believe you.

They're going to say, Breathe easy, baby, like, No, no one else will probably do that, or some people won't, but like most people, didn't.

Ed and Lorraine are going to come in and they're going to be like, We believe you. So they at least give you that. And sometimes at the very least, they're going to bring their friend Rosemary, who also believes in you.

Yeah, and I I mean, it's not real if Rosemary doesn't believe it, so as soon as she comes in, I'm like, it's real only with her baby though. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, and then, but like I said, there were, there was years and years of like slammed doors in their faces. So they were like, Okay, wow, like, cool that you're, you're not doubting us, yeah. But at the same time, the SMURLs started noticing that having paranormal investigators in the house was actually pissing off the vibes a lot more.

And things started to seem like they were getting worse. Oh no, oh my God, they were getting worse. Throw me out a window at this very moment.

I won't do that because I love you. But that was pretty rough, it was pretty rough. I also didn't write that, so I don't know why I said that. No, sometimes it just happens.

I feel that I feel like I have to go shower or something. A lot of times, my mouth will say something in a way that I'm like, I didn't intend to say that at all the other day, actually. I literally just came up here and I started to talk. And I was like, I can confirm, and I was like, That's not what I was trying to say.

That's accurate. Yeah, I used to do that when I waitress, too, I would just walk up to tables and not be able to talk. I love that.

And they were like, Hey girl, hey girl, I don't. Even. The most disturbing event that the SMURLs went through was on June 21st, 1986, after the Warrens had already started their investigation.

They'd eaten dinner together as a family, watched a little movie. They were having a fam-bam night. Adorable, seemingly with no disturbances. They put the kids to bed with no issues.

They went up to bed themselves, they went to sleep. It was great, great, but a few hours later, after everyone else had fallen asleep, Jack daddy-o there.

Jack, Jack, the dad, woke up out of a deep, deep sleep, and he said he woke up with what felt like a violent jolt. Oh, he said. At first, I didn't see anything at all.

I just felt this tremendous sort of panic, I wasn't sure if I was having a nightmare or not.

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like, at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering, super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast, like doubling and tripling. And it's all these girls with a diagnosis. The state tried to keep on the down low.

Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, well, yeah.

It's hysteria, it's all in your head, it's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here, something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline, and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

Hysterical Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts, you can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.

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And like, So this is wild, this next part, and I actually can't believe that I personally have to deliver this to you. Oh, but it's part of the story, and my journalistic truth is driving me forward, it is.

So he essentially strap in, Oh, Mikey is preparing, Mikey's seen this and he knows what's next, because Mikey and Dave spoke about this. Oh, no.

So Jack woke up to a ghost straddling him, Okay, and he said that the figure was mostly human. But the woman also looked like she had some sort of scales, like on her skin, almost like a snake, and her skin, he said, was almost like a translucent white. But like with the scales, of course. And he told author Robert Curran, who I talked about in the first part. She had long, white, scraggly hair and her eyes were all red, and the inside of her mouth and her gums were green.

Some of her teeth were missing, but those she had were very long and vampire-like. Is she a succubus? Is that what's happening here? Mm-hmm, oh.

He claimed that the woman had some sort of hold over him. That was like literally paralyzing him, almost like sleep paralysis. But he was not sleeping and he realized what was happening, and when he did, he just froze in terror, he said. After the woman had, I guess I would say, sexually assaulted him because he was not consenting to this. She looked down at him menacingly and quote smiled, showing those incredible teeth. So she, like, literally took advantage of him and, like, she raped him.

Holy shit. According to him, that's what happened. A scaly, white, translucent woman with sharp spiny thumb teeth and red eyes and red eyes.

And scraggly hair. And then she smiled afterwards, and then later, he described himself as being sore, Oh my god, and he said, like, really sore.

Like he had been assaulted, Yes, exactly, and he said, that's how he knew that. Because when it happened, he woke up the next morning after somehow falling asleep and was like, there's no fucking way that happened. But then he was like, My house is fucked.

I think that happened and now I'm sore, like I'm feeling the aftermath, I've been assaulted. That's what's always shocking to me in these cases is when they're like, and then I just fell asleep.

And then I woke up the next day and I'm like, what the fuck, you just fell asleep. I'd be like, up and at him, we're going to, like the neighbor's house. Yeah, we got to get out of here.

Get the fuck out of there. But then I think about all the times I've had sleep paralysis and I just fall back to sleep after that. But it's never been on that level. No, no, you just see like a creepy guy in the corner with a hat on.

I've never interacted with my sleep paralysis demon. No like one-on-one, no, no.

Even like when I have, like, a nightmare that I know I was sleeping, and it's not any kind of sleep paralysis. I have a hard time going back to sleep. And sometimes I'm like, maybe I should go to the neighbor's house, I should just leave, maybe it's not safe here.

Yeah, it wasn't. It's safe there if you do. Read Robert Curran's book, which I'll link in the show notes. And I mentioned it in part one, too. He goes a lot more into that specific instance.

I kind of just wanted to just show for it. Yeah, it's very dark, so you get the details in the book.

Yes, go read the book, for sure. So, after weeks of again increasingly aggressive attacks on the SMURL House. It was clear to quite literally everyone involved that they needed the help of the church. If they were going to get rid of this infestation in the home, yeah, but the problem was that. While the Catholic diocese was sympathetic and the local parish priests offered to come bless the house, they declined a request for Say It with Me, an exorcism.

Yes, since they ran into a bit of another closed door there, the SMUrls, and they kind of felt like they were out of options. Jack and Janet That's when they started thinking about going public, with the story, basically hoping that someone would hear about them and offer some kind of solution. And Jack also hoped that once they went public, the church would kind of be shamed into helping, Hmm.

Yeah, there's a bit of speculation about more than one timeline, in this case, I kind of talked about that a bit in part one. People question the timeline of the haunt itself, but they also argue over who was the first person to take the story public in this scenario of people.

In their published account of the investigation of the haunting of the SMURL House The Haunted One Family's Nightmare. Ed Warren claimed that the idea to go public with this family story was solely Jack and Janet's decision. He said Lorraine and I believed that Janet and Jack's sudden desire to find a public forum offered one very good possibility. That the Scranton Diocese would have to recognize, at last, that something was going on in West Pittston and they had yet to take seriously. Hmm. So basically, it was like he agreed with Jack's sentiment of like, the church is ignoring this. And if we go public with this, they're going to realize, holy shit, something really is going on and we should have helped. Yeah, absolutely.

But others who became involved in the case a little while later, though, remember things a little differently. So Paul Kurtz, who owns and wrote a piece in The Skeptical Inquirer, said. Indeed, it was apparently at the behest of the Warrens that the SMURL family first released their story to the press about the ghostly manifestations. Hmm, so Ed Warren is being like, No, no, no, no, no, that was fully their decision. Jack and Janet wanted to do this to pressure the church, but Paul Kurtz is being like, No, no, no, no, no. Ed and Lorraine put pressure on Jack and Janet to go public. I wonder what happened?

Me, too, I wonder where the truth lies, somewhere in the middle, I'm sure, somewhere in there. What did they say?

Yours mine, and.

Yeah, yours mine and the truth, yeah, that's what it is, right, yeah. So whoever went to the press aside? When the Associated Press story about the SMURls haunted house started hitting the newspapers, and that was on August 18th, 1986, it kicked off a huge interest in what they were calling the strange goings-ons in the SMURl House.

All right, the strange goings-ons, goings-ons, I like that. I think it was actually just goings-ons. Sorry, that's okay.

Just like making everything plural, we can make it crazy, we can go crazy. But the media in and around Pennsylvania, they were going wild and everybody wanted to be reporting with the latest update, like each little department of reporters. So the next day, there was a bunch of follow-up articles that appeared in local papers and they were getting quotes from Jack and Janet.

In one instance, Janet told a reporter, Steve Corbett, For some reason, the devil wants us, they the demons are making us pay for something we know nothing about. The punishment has to stop. And I was like, Okay, Janet, Okay, Janet.

Okay, Janet, what they're making? You pay for something and you don't know anything about it, That's a thing I don't know.

I'm like, I don't know, I feel like this is just demons thing. I feel like they don't need a specific reason, like they don't have a vendetta. No, I don't think they're into lessons. You live here.

Yeah, demons aren't necessarily like the ghost of Christmas past trying to be like, Hey, you should probably be more generous. Yeah, I think they're just like, let's fuck shit up. I think demons are like the strangers at the end of the strangers. And they say, because you were home, I think that's it. I fucking love that movie.

I don't think there's a reason. I think it's the scary no motivation answer at the end of the horror movie where you go fuck you talking about scream. Yeah, yeah.

Scarier if there's no motive. Scarier when there's no motive, it is fucking scarier. That's why demons are terrifying, That's why demons are demons.

That's what they do. But she went on, just like they had planned to, to specifically name the Catholic Diocese when she was doing her interviews. Obviously putting the pressure on, yeah. So, she said to the same reporter, We are a haunted family who desperately needs the power of the Catholic Church to help purge the evil.

I just want to tell you that that light just came on. Oh, I don't like that. What's happening every time we talk about this? I don't know. This little nightlight just popped on next to me.

We were talking earlier about something top secret and the lights. It was just like a vision that we had, but the lights started flickering on and off. Yeah, it was really strange.

Yeah, like, you were just saying that. And I happened to look out of the corner of my eye at it and it popped on as I looked at it. That was weird, strange goings-ons, yeah.

We're a haunted family, yeah, but now that Janet had named the church specifically, they started, the church started getting contacted by reporters. Oh so, they had to say something.

Yeah, so. A spokesperson for the Catholic Diocese of Scranton, Scranton, told reporters The matter is under investigation. The church takes the reports of demons very seriously, however, a valid case of demonic possession is extremely rare.

Ash just had a demonic possession. I just had a demonic possession. As I was reading that, I was like, I am sneezing, don't sneeze, I mean, I like that.

They're being real about it. They're like, it's pretty fucking rare, it's rare, and they're like, you know, we're taking you seriously. We're not saying it doesn't happen.

We're just saying, it's like, it's rare. Not everybody gets a demonic possession. sure, like the swirls are not cool enough for a demonic possession, yeah.

They're like the the Brendons over there, they're cool. Yours is a common haunting, it's just, but the really rare ones, there's only a few of them. Cute, cute of you to think you're so haunted.

Cute of you to think you're so haunted, so. But now that the case was getting more and more attention, Ed and Lorraine were getting interviews with the press, too. Of course, they were Ed Warren. He would always stand by Jack and Janet, excuse me during their interviews, too. And Ed told reporters the SMURLs are truly a family coming under visual attack.

The ghost, devil, demon, whatever you want to call it, is in that home. Ooh. And he pointed to the 1973 exorcist like the movie, Yeah, hell yeah. He said it was only evidence that added credibility to the SMURLS story.

He said it was based on a true case of history of a boy from Mount Rainier, Washington, back in 1949.

I was there, but as a young man, only in my 20s, nobody paid much attention to me. Yeah, no one pays attention to a young man in his 20s. I was like, What, Ed?

What are you trying to say? There? He's like, what he's like. Proof of the exorcist fun fact I was in Mount Rainier, Yeah.

But nobody cared about me. He's like, Yeah, you know, I was just a young man in his 20s talking about exorcisms and like, you know how they fly under the radar. So it's like, I don't know. I feel like you're talking about two things that are simply not connected and trying to make some kind of connection out of it. But, you know, go off, king.

Go off. But, according to Ed, the family, who lived in the SMURL house before the SMURLs moved in, they were the ones responsible for. Quote, The first of the four paranormal stages, Oh, which he referred to as the opening, That's the first stage.

The opening I do love the theatrics, I fucking love them, I do, I love it.

Now he wasn't able to provide a ton of details because he didn't want anyone getting sued. No, of course not. But he claimed that the previous occupants had quote allowed the doors to open up. That allowed the phenomenon to occur. Which, like, lots of big words going on, lots of like.

Sounds pretty blamey, blaming, exactly going on. But as for how the problem could be resolved, he still said it would require an exorcism by a priest from the Catholic Church. That was the only way out of it. Yeah, it is.

But he also said that the reps of the church in Scranton were young and not knowledgeable about this sort of thing, meaning they wouldn't be of any help. Yeah, so on one hand, they're like, we fucking need the Catholic church to help us, and then on the other hand, they're like, they are unqualified to help us.

So we're kind of fucked. What do you want? But pretty much every day that went by, more and more articles were being written, the SMURLs were being featured in newspapers across Pennsylvania. And even further than that at this point.

And a lot of them were actually front page news, which when you think about that, that's fucking nuts, that is nuts. Imagine you will grab the globe and it's like about a haunted family. That would be pretty amazing.

Tough news week. I would love that, I would also love that. But every outlet seemed to up the ante, of course. Or add some kind of piece of the story that hadn't been mentioned before. And sometimes the new information even seemed like it was intended to add credibility to the claims.

Like, it seemed like the reporters were like, you know what, I believe them. And almost kind of sneaking their own things in there to kind of, like, validate the story. Yeah. On August 20th, for example, Ed Warren claimed that they had extensive video footage of the haunting Ooh.

Exciting, right? I'm excited, let's go well. When he was asked to provide the tapes, he said that he had sent them to someone. But then they were like, Okay, can you get them back?

And he was like, Mm, so like, Can I have those? Actually? The demonic energy was so strong that it, quote, burned a hole right through the tape. Ah, you know, that happens, that'll happen.

That happens also. Which one is it? Did you send it to someone or did it get a hole burned through it? No, it burned a hole through the tape. Wha.

Yeah, they're like, you know how it is, you know how. Just like things burst into flames, kind of like Jack watching TV, I mean, we do know how things burst into flames these days.

That's very true. And how do you argue with that, though? At that point, like, at that time, you're just like, Yeah, I guess. yeah, I guess, you're right.

I would want to see the tape with a hole in it. Who am I to argue that? I don't know? I'd be like, at least show me the videotape with the hole burned on the center of it, you know?

Just give me that, because I would say, you didn't want to inhale all that plastic, so that must have been a demon. That's true, that's what I would say, at least, yeah, good call.

Thank you, you're welcome. But other additions to the story were just plain bizarre. In an interview with Citizen's Voice, a local newspaper, Jack told reporters about a curious incident involving his feet, his feet, I said.

Involving his feet, you said, he said. This is just truly ridiculous. I had my legs crossed at the ankles and my slippers were alongside of the chair. Without looking and not taking my eyes off the television, which apparently they had replaced. I leaned forward for my slippers and went to put them on when I realized I couldn't uncross my feet.

Oh, that's new. You want to know why he couldn't uncross his feet? Why this is? Quotes The demons had paper clipped my socks together from the inside where they met.

The paper clip was opened in an S shape. You try to do that to your socks without ripping them. I can't do it, but I did, but it did.

I mean.

Okay, that's like, that's very fae, that's very mischievous.

It is, first of all. I can't even really picture that in my head. Nope, can't do it. I'm like an S shape. And like, you couldn't. U.N. I think you would just rip your socks if you tried to uncross your legs.

Like, I think you'd be able to, so I think he's right, you really can't, no, but I you would just rip your shit.

You would just rip your shit all up, you would just rip your shit all up, but like, why, what? what do the demons really get out of that?

I don't know, I just I'm like, hmm, hmm, they're just pranksters, you know?

They're like, this is funny, he'll fall also, that's not scary to me. I'd just be like, fuck off, that's silly, goofy.

That's.

Yeah, and it would piss me off to me, at least. That's silly, goofy, depending on my mood for the day.

Yeah, I'd more just be like, that's annoying, I I don't like, like John does this thing that he knows I hate.

To your socks, to my, because I love like, I have to have socks on, yeah, and she always has socks on.

And like, and don't take my socks off. And so he'll run by me if my legs are crossed, and he'll just rip my sock off. And then he'll run around and throw it. You guys are really cute, that's a silly, goofy thing, he just....

But he does it because he knows it makes me lose it. Like irrationally angry, like irrationally angry. But he's just like Woo and just grabs my sock, He's just like Woo.

He just gets overcome with the woo and I feel like he would, so I feel like the demons. Maybe they're Aries, okay, and maybe that's just their love language.

Maybe they took a page out of John's book, out of John's book, you know? maybe that's their love language. It's driving this family crazy.

I like it. I mean, I kind of feel like you're onto something there. I think. So, maybe the ghosts are just Aries, and that's their love language. Well, the Catholic Diocese was not Aries, and they were not John.

I don't know, no, I had to move on. Somehow. That was another good segue, thank you.

So, after being inundated with calls from reporters and very concerned citizens and neighbors, actually. The Scranton Diocese released an official statement on the SMURL case. Ooh, Reverend Gerald Mullaly told reporters We don't know what it is. That's the problem. We believe what the family is telling us.

It's the explanation for what they are experiencing that we are not sure of. We have no idea what the fuck is going on. They're like, Yeah, we believe them, but we don't know what we. Yeah, the whole thing is, who are they going to exercise?

Well, that's the problem, the whole family it's like, because not one person is like, exactly.

You know, like, starting to speak like Reagan or anything like that. They're having things happen around them, but nobody's possessed per se. That's the thing it's like. So what's the point of an exorcism?

Like, you're not going to exercise.

Are you going to exercise the whole house? Is that a thing? That's what I was going to say, and I don't think so I thought you would exercise a person.

Yeah, but like, you can bless a house, or, you know?

Which I think they probably are more apt to do is bless a house, and they did, yeah, so....

But they were like, there's really not much more we can do other than that. Also, what is the what are the? I wonder what it takes to get an official exorcism, like, what are the guidelines that you need to hit?

The benchmarks I think you talked actually a little bit about it when you were doing the Arne Johnson case. We did talk about it. But there's like, like, we don't know what, the actual key points, we didn't talk about, the benchmarks of what it is.

But it has to go up like, really high, like, didn't the Pope get involved at one point or something? Yeah, like in the chain of like, you know, who decides, it has to go up really high? But I just want to know what the requirements are like. What they need to take to all those people and be like, Hey, this family is dealing with all these things.

See, I wonder if there's requirements, or if it depends on the person at the top. Yeah, maybe like what they think of the whole situation, yeah, but at the same time, you would think that there would have to be some criteria.

There has to be something I don't know, I don't know, but they were like, not here, but they said no.

So ultimately, the Diocese did agree to send a priest that was, quote, experienced in demonology and parapsychology to go out and investigate. Okay, and they said that after the priest was through with his investigation, they would decide how to go forward. Okay, so within a week of the first report by the Associated Press, like I said, the coverage, like daily coverage of the SMURLs ordeal, had started attracting crowds outside of the house. Actually.

Like it had got so big, like people were getting together, just looking at the house, and sometimes the crowds were larger than a hundred people. That's fucked up, just like causing a scene.

Especially, it's like people live there exactly. I don't know. I think they might have, like, said, Hey, oh, they liked it.

I don't know, oh, I never talked to them personally. I was thinking, it's weird just to do that anyway.

I think it's very weird to do that, like when people live in the house, yeah, like, don't do that, no, they're rude.

Yeah, because the thing is, a lot of times the police actually had to intervene to disperse everyone and manage the crowd. Imagine being their neighbor. I would be so fucking annoyed, that's the thing.

If you lived on that street, I'd be fucking pissed, I'd be real annoyed. The story, though, actually caught the attention eventually, though, like because of all of this, of Jason Miller, who played Father Damien in The Exorcist. Oh shit.

So he was because he's from Scranton. So one day he went along with a journalist from the Times Tribune and took a tour of the SMURL House. Shut up. That's why I think, like they let certain people in. Oh yeah.

They were, you know, for sure, but, he said of the visit.

Huh.

Like, So I think they were worried that the next step was possession. Yeah, of course, now. While they were in the living room, Janet told Jason Miller and the reporter that there was some activity actually going on in Dawn's bedroom upstairs. And she was like, we should go up there, like, I can actually finally show you something.

Like, it's happening right now. But when Jack took the visitors to the room quote, everything was normal, like nothing was going on. Yeah, yeah.

You know, so by the end of August, I told you, no media training for these ghosts, they don't want to do. They're like, no, no cameras.

They're like us, no videos, no photos, don't take a pic, yeah.

Take a pic, don't take a video, don't take a video. Never so. By the end of August, the nonstop reports on the SMURL haunting started getting a little mundane for readers.

They were like, Okay, there's not a lot really happening here. Nothing new to report, so people are losing interest now, not wanting to lose an audience potentially. Jack Janet and the Warrens allegedly came forward with a new piece of information that they had gotten via a psychic investigation of the House. Oh.

And a possible explanation for the haunting, Alright, which, like, I think you guys already provided that, but go off. But sure. According to Janet Quote, two psychics who spent time in the House believe there may be a link between the alleged spirits and a decades old murder.

Oh, there are two earthbound and one demonic spirit here. one is a woman named Abigail, a friendly spirit who talks to me. Oh, one is a man named Patrick, who is angry.

The other is a demon. Oh so, the psychics told Janet allegedly, that almost a hundred years earlier, in 1898 or 1899, Patrick had murdered his wife, Abigail. Oh shit, and she went on the psychic to explain. Quote. He was supposed to have been hanged nearby and buried here.

Now he's afraid to go into the spirit world because he thinks he will be punished as he should, as he absolutely should. I also was like, why was he going to get buried on his own property? I was going to ask that.

It's only legal in some places. I don't know about Scranton, but okay, but unfortunately. And in the 1800s.

Who knows truth, truth? Unfortunately, though, there's literally no documented evidence whatsoever that either of those people existed or were real. Or any evidence that says a murder or an execution took place in that. Like, regarding those people. Okay, so next?

So there's that mm-hmm all right now. While the SMURLs had gone to the press initially to draw attention to their predicament. And, as they claimed, to get help from anybody who had similar experiences. After a week, the nonstop coverage was starting to take its toll on even the SMURL family. Yeah, of course.

Jack told reporters It's just getting a little crazy. Do you know? We have people climbing up the tree outside the house at night, trying to look in the windows? Yeah, that's fucked up, and they have kids.

Yeah, and like younger kids too, yeah, that's fucked up, not cool, and they have four girls, you know? Yeah, like, that's scary.

It's like, get it together, people now. Even worse than that, though. People were now starting to criticize the story and were talking amongst themselves, questioning the validity of what the SMURLs were claiming. Ah, and Jack said, We're starting to read things that have no truth to them at all. Some people have questioned our integrity.

I don't like that because we're honest people. We never thought it would run away like this. Oh, you wanted to be in the spotlight a little bit, I know, unfortunately.

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So as public interest in the case began to slowly die off, the voices of the critics and skeptics were growing louder. But not all of them were accusing the family of dishonesty or fraud. Stephen Kaplan, the director of the Parapsychology Institute of New York, actually said it was a bit more involved than that. He was like, I'm not trying to make fun of this family, he said. What you have here is someone taking a cause of psychokinesis and blowing it up into a story about demons.

Yeah, he actually believed a lot of what the family had said about the attacks going on within the home. But where he differed from the Warrens, however, was how it came to be the cause. Okay, for one thing, he didn't believe in demons.

And for another, he was suspicious of the Warrens involvement in the case. He had actually investigated the Amityville case himself, and he didn't think that case had anything to do with demons either. And nor do I. And that's why he was worrying about the Warrens motivations going public with this case, too, because he was worried it was all going to take kind of a similar path to the Amityville case.

Yeah, and he said, normally when you investigate a case like this, you don't publicize it. No, like that was his main issue.

That makes sense, okay? So making our way to reverend Alphonsus Trabold, obviously downtown. Yeah, what a fucking name.

Yeah, the priest from St.

Bonaventure University. Yeah, yeah. He was invited by the Scranton Diocese to investigate the matter. Like I was saying earlier, they were like, we're going to send a priest out there, he's going to investigate and we'll decide how to move forward.

So he was very skeptical when he went out there. He told reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the local diocese. I feel like Rachel from Seven Deadly Sinners. Yeah, and I can't believe that I haven't said that yet.

Deadly Diocese and also deadly diocese. Yeah, go listen to Rachel on Seven Deadly Sinners, Rachel and Greg.

And Rachel and Greg on Deadly Diocese? It's really great, guys. I'm serious, it really is. Go listen to it, but I've just never said diocese so much.

Yeah, but so. He told the reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the diocese to determine whether the manifestations quote are true. And not just a matter of misjudgment, hallucination or illusion, illusion, illusion. Is Criss Angel here?

Oh my gosh mind freak.

Oh my gosh mind freak. So among the skeptics who, you know, were less confident that the Smurls and the Warrens were telling the truth. So among the skeptics who were less confident that the Smurls and the Warrens were telling the truth. And, you know, kind of just were like, I don't know about this. And among the people that were like, not shy about sharing their opinion with the press, ah.

Paul KurTz Oh, I mentioned him before. He was a member and spokesperson for the Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims and Paranormal, also known as CSICOP. Oh, yeah.

I mean, I know Paul, Do you know Paul? Csicop? Yeah, that's fun, Csicop.

Yeah, well, Kurtz. He saw a lot of similarities between the SMURLS claims and many other cases involving the Warrens, and that led him to his doubts, he said. It seems to us, you know, over at CSICOP, yeah, Paul and everybody. That a great to-do has been made about it. And we wonder if it's like the Amityville horror hoax, which was based on imagination rather than on actual hauntings.

MM So, despite his skepticism and his general distrust for the Warrens, the members of CSICOP, that's just what I'm calling it, 100, obviously. Why wouldn't you?

They were more than willing, actually, to go out and investigate the families claims themselves and offer assistance if they could. I like that. But those offers were either completely ignored by the SMURls and the Warrens, or just flat-out rejected. I wonder why, me, too?

It's crazy, that's wild, so the thing, yeah. The SMURLs refusal from this large organization with the knowledge and the resources to explain and possibly even end their ordeal seemed pretty strange. Yeah, to most people.

Yeah, like all you're doing, like your whole claim with going forward with this, was to get help. Yeah. And then those people were like, Hey, we're over here, Csicop.

Hi, we have help, we can help you. And then they were like, No, they're like, No, we don't want that, like, that's a little ridiculous.

Hmm. So when Kurtz there reached out to Janet Smurl to offer assistance, she just kept putting him off. She told him, You know, she would get back to him, but she would never call him back. That kind of thing, that's strange.

She was kind of ghosting him. Yeah, that would make me ghosting him. That's funny, oh my god.

I actually didn't even mean to, but like, good catch, I like that. But you know what CSICop was? What was it?

Undeterred I figured I always knew they were, they were undeterred. So, they referred a team of local affiliated investigators to the SMURLS, and after a few brief conversations, the SMURL family actually did agree to let them come out to the house and investigate.

Like, it took a little poking and prodding, but they were like, Which it shouldn't have, it shouldn't. No, it definitely should not have.

Especially when you said, that's your whole goal, yeah, but they were like, you know what, okay, come out.

But when they got to the house, they were met by Ed Warren and Jack Smurl. Oh, and apparently Jack had changed his mind. And he and Ed refused to allow the team to go inside the house and actually demanded that they get off the property immediately.

And to wait until you've packed all your shit right and brought it out to the location. And then you're like, actually, no, but why, bitch, I bought a button up shirt for this?

I got new pants at target, like, what the fuck, what the hell? No, that's not right.

You're just gonna jojo me like that. jojo me. It's a verb, it's a verb, yeah.

So the refusal to allow the team inside, uh, I don't know if you see it this way, but I do as a major red flag. Yeah, I would question that the members of CSICOP also felt that way. They were like, That's fucking, that's weird.

That's suspicious, so the CSICOP investigator, Richard Bush, he told reporters. And I thought of you when I heard this quote. It said Good science says First, let's rule out possible fraud. Yeah, let's be careful.

Let's be critical, let's be unemotional. Today, there are a lot of emotion here and a lot of secrecy. I want to open things up and look at things fairly. He was like, I want to do good science.

I like that, I like that. He's like, I want to remove all the secrecy and the emotional bullshit from this. And I just want to look at what's happening and tell you if it's real or if it's fake. And then when? If I say, I don't know, it seems like it might be real, then we'll delve a little further into this, exactly.

But you're not even letting me get to that point, and I wonder why? Because if it's real, why wouldn't you want me? A pillar of the scientific paranormal community to go in front of the media and say this is real and we need to investigate it exactly, huh? I agree? Also, he's giving Capricorn vibes.

Thank you, yeah, he really is, but so that's the thing. Their refusal to allow CSICOP into the House not enough to stop the organization, like I said, undeterred.

Yeah, they're a Capricorn, so what they did like, they are as an organization, a capricorn. You cannot tell them no.

You can't stop them. So what they did was they just started organizing. No, they didn't start well, yeah, they probably did organize some things. And then they started investigating off the property, offsite, and they came to several conclusions about the SMURLS claims. Now, the biggest issues for the independent investigators now doing this outside of the house? The biggest issues for them were that. The only supposedly documented evidence of the activity in the home was suspiciously unavailable, like we said, and they also were like, the only investigators allowed in this house are Ed and Lorraine or their people. And any attempt being made so far to understand this phenomenon relied entirely and exclusively on a Christian framework. Which, like, that's fine if that's what you believe in, but it limits you.

But it does limit you greatly, yeah, and whenever? The Warrens were asked by reporters on multiple occasions to produce that video that they had, or any photos of activity that they also claimed to have. Every single time, Ed Warren kept putting them off, he said. QUOTE He had loaned them to a TV company, but didn't remember its name or quote. They would be released in time, but only to the Roman Catholic Church. It's like the church doesn't even want to help you here. What the fuck are you giving them videos for?

And also they asked you for the videos and you said, a whole barn threw them. Yeah, so what's the story? what is the story here? And the Warrens weren't the only ones giving weird stories.

The SMURLs also adopted a very vague explanation when asked the same question. They would tell reporters quote they don't own the tapes, and that if they allowed one or two journalists to stay overnight, they'd be deluged, deluged, deluged, deluged. Thank you.

I think you can say it kind of either way, but I always think, like a deluge of things, I like it. Well, they were going to be deluged with requests from other reporters, which I guess is a fair point.

But it's like, at least release some pictures because you're going to the media so often. Why can't you just give them a couple of pics? That's the thing, just give them a little bit, right? So in time, the press, much like the public, started to wonder why the SMURLs were being so secretive.

And now, at this point, they were refusing to talk to any quote unsympathetic members of the press. So like the number one people you don't want to piss off in the story like this are the press. Yeah, especially when they were helping you in the beginning, that's the thing.

And when Janet Smurl was asked about all of this during an interview with an ABC news program featuring Paul Kurtz, Our Guy, Janet claimed that she had been. That she actually had contacted CSI COP a year earlier, but it was that organization that had told her that she had been watching too many late night horror movies. Oh, remember, I had said that earlier, yeah.

That's that's not good, that's not good. But she didn't have any proof of that. Well, that's the thing, and also it's okay to be skeptical at first.

This is your chance to shine, exactly this is your chance to prove them wrong. Like, wouldn't you want that if you are very confident in your own truth, right?

Exactly, that's the thing. But she was pissed off about that, and she was also pissed off that they suggested that she see a psychiatrist. Okay?

Which I can see why, like, she would find that insulting in the manner in which it was said. I suppose, yeah, well, and some people just don't want to be told that exactly, so it's like, you know?

But during the interview, Kurtz actually said that was completely false, he said. Although this sounds like good advice, we have no record of having received such a call. We invariably ask that the caller send us a letter giving all the facts, and we have no such letter on file from the SMURLs.

I mean, whenever you ask for proof of something over and over again and they don't provide it to you, it's probably fucked up. And like, I don't know, it's weird. I don't know when someone's not willing to provide the receipts, but they have them, according to them. I don't know about it.

I don't like it, I don't know about it. I've been in that position before and I've been like, show me the proof, there's been several times that.

I think we've both seen this happen. Yes, where you're like, show me the proof of that, show me that that actually happened. And they're just like, Hmm.

And then, and then I do what. Carrie and Laura from SUP, another great podcast. You should listen to truth. You just say so you say, so you say, so you say.

So you say, so you say, but some people run with it. Yeah, yeah.

They do. But now that the SMURLs seem to be gaining a more, you know, adversarial tone with anybody other than Ed and Lorraine Warren. And more and more inconsistencies were starting to build within their story. This was when the press shifted their tone publicly, and even the public itself started even gaining more suspicions. Yeah, I mean, I could see that.

So, according to Jack, the surgery caused short-term memory loss and that the operation had no bearing on his family's claims that the house was possessed by demons. He was basically saying, two completely separate events. Yeah, okay. And as for why they had become so closed off at this point? He told reporters Jack, if there's action taken in this house, it's got to be from a religious point of view.

So he was like, basically, I don't want anybody investigating this that is not affiliated with or believes in the church. Which, like, Okay, again, I think you're limiting yourself. Yeah, I mean, that's just a limited scope, that's all.

When you're only looking through one lens, it's hard to see anything else, and you're not seeing the forest past the trees at that point, exactly. And so skeptics and all the press and everybody that was starting to get pissed off about this, they obviously disagreed.

And also so did a psychiatrist named Dr. Robert Gordon. We got a doctor up in here, Dr. Gordon.

Dr. Gordon Not the one from Saw. I don't think, what's that?

A Keri Elwes Blade O.o.f. Well. In a prepared statement written on behalf of CSI COP. He suspected that the family might be suffering from a kind of shared hysteria quote similar to that prevalent during the Salem Witch trials. Shared hysteria is fascinating, fascinating.

And we're going to cover more of those because it's a fascinating phenomenon. I think I agree with him on in this particular case, and I believe in demons and I believe in hauntings. That's the thing in this case. I think it might've been a shared hysteria kind of thing, so do you think? And it's like it kind of feels like they believe it.

Oh, I think they believe it, because I think that's part of shared hysteria and shared delusions. They aren't lying, that's the thing they're not like, willingly being like, Fuck you, I'm telling you of fabrication.

Like, they're not spinning you a yarn on purpose. No, they believe what they are telling you, because that's the thing. I think. There's multiple viewpoints on this story as a whole.

For sure, and I think one of them is that they were telling the truth and that like, they got fucked over. Yeah, I think another viewpoint is that like they were not telling the truth and they did this to get famous, yeah.

For sure, and then I think this is the viewpoint that I have. They did this because they were genuinely terrified and believed it, but I think it was a hysteria, a shared hysteria. It was like, I think they they truly did see those things that they thought that they were seeing.

And it could absolutely be a little bit, a little sprinkle of all three as well. I love a good smorgasbord, you know, we love. It's kind of like a girl dinner, girl dinner, that's like a thing now.

Girl dinner, it's a TikTok thing right now it is. And it's, you know how, like. You just will throw together a dinner with, like, you know, fucking chickpeas and some salsa and tomatoes.

Like, just, honestly, that's like a real dinner, random like, just mishmash of things. Girl dinner equals three cubes of cheese, a couple grapes, a Capri sun and a cookie. Oh, that's a girl dinner, yeah.

Girl dinner is just like like random shit thrown together. But it can be like more than like two grapes, right? Oh my, it should absolutely be more than that. it should be like a handful, yeah, like many grapes.

Okay, I was like, Is that what girl dinner is? No, it doesn't mean small, it just means crazy, random. Oh, okay.

I thought I had it wrong and I was like, Oh no, your dinner sounded like it's like I don't like girl dinner. Your dinner sounded like an actually good prepared dinner. Oh yeah, yeah, okay.

Girl dinner is three pieces of turkey, a few cubes of cheese, a handful of grapes, a handful of grapes. A capri sun Always a Capri sun sounds great and like a chomps beef jerky stick, there you go.

Just like some random ass shit, yeah, just like whatever you can cobble together, that makes sense, okay? I just thought I had the wrong idea of it and I was like, Oh, no, am I like no girl? Dinner's great.

I was like, I thought, girl dinner was fun. No, girl dinner is fun, okay, cool, and girl dinner is what you make it. So let's make it raw, it's whatever the hell you make it.

But what was the point? Oh, because I was saying, I was saying the outcome of this, you were saying this, like, really, three viewpoints here that they experienced this for real. They got fucked over and they didn't get the justice they needed. Or that they outright lied to get the media attention and the fame out of it. They knew what they were doing. Badaboom, or the third one, is this shared hysteria. Where they really felt like they were experiencing these things and they were getting, you know, it was just growing within their family. And I was saying, it could be like a little sprinkle of all three to kind of like a girl dinner of all the various options.

Whoop, there it is. I knew there was a connection. But who are we to say, you know, who are we?

I don't know. And Dr. Gordon felt the same because he was like, you know, Jack Smurl is not a patient of mine, so I can't comment on his personal health. He's like, I don't live there. But he did note that the surgeries and potential injuries to the brain often cause lingering symptoms that can mirror those of a psychotic disorder.

Okay.

In a letter, he wrote A shared tension might cause mass hysteria, with shared symptoms, which could involve delusions or hallucinations. Okay, the family. Strong religious beliefs and demonology might serve to bolster the delusional system of belief. Something terribly wrong may be going on in that family system that has nothing to do with demons.

That's true, so I do think I slightly agree with that, like I lean more toward that belief. I could see it, I could see it.

I have no fucking clue, but I could see that absolutely right. So, while Kurtz and members of CSICOP continued pushing to investigate the SMURL home, and, you know, continuing to investigate it on their own, the public and press at this point. So we've gotten. We've gone with them where they were happy and they were, like, so excited. To read more about this. Started wavering, had questions. Then we're met with, kind of like, EW, like, I don't like that.

Now they're just like, I don't give a fuck about this story at all. Because now you've overstayed your welcome, that's exactly what it is. You've pushed back on too many things but then welcomed other things. So I think people get, people get over that.

Exactly, and they're like, all right, you know what, I'm just not going to give it the attention exactly. So people these were like, kind of like their final thoughts.

Yeah, one neighbor told a reporter they're trying to get a movie made in West Pitson. That's all Pitson, excuse me. And then another neighbor, Bernard Radzvin, which is another fucking dope ass name.

He lived a few doors down from the family and he said, it's a lot of malarkey. There's people been living in this neighborhood 30 years and didn't have nothing happen. The kids, rather than the demons, are all that screaming around here. I love Bernard Bernard Radzvin forever.

I really love Bernard, I love that. He's like, I've lived here my whole life and I haven't seen demons walking down this street not once. He's like, kids.

Not a bunch of them, loud little shits, demons. Nah, haven't seen one.

Don't believe it. And even the family's parish Priest, Reverend Joseph Adonizo, took a cautious position on the matter. He said We're going to pray for their peace of mind. We can't pray to remove the demons because we don't know for sure yet that they're there. I think that is as close to a sick burn slash roast that you will get from your local reverend.

I think so, too. It's like, we're going to pray for you, you know what? We'll pray for you. Yeah, we got you.

But the SMURls and the Warrens, they didn't like that. They were becoming even more antagonistic. Now that people are losing interest, they're mad and they're still feeling like they're going through this.

So now they're feeling shunned. Yeah, exactly so. Reporters began taking a far less serious tone when it came to the story, and that's what was pissing them off. And an example of this is Jill Porter wrote in the Philadelphia Daily News. It's a little ridiculous.

She said As a reporter, I think a certain amount of skepticism is healthy. But I can't understand why the public is so suspicious of the SMURLs. When so many homes are beset by similar, unexplained happenings, why? Just yesterday, my friend Ellen was telling me of the demons who have turned her summer house at the seashore into a nightmare. She returned from the beach the other day to discover a paper cup had been stuffed down the toilet, stopping it up and requiring a very expensive visit from the plumber. None of her three sons, aged 15, 12 and 9, had any idea how it happened, of course, though, they were all home all afternoon.

Wow, so basically she was like, you don't have demons, you have kids, I was going to say, So she's literally like, I can't imagine she's just being like. Every home in the country with kids in it goes through the same thing. How can we just ignore that?

Yeah, ignore that paranormal, shun that. yeah, what a coincidence.

She was like, Send Lawrence to my friend's beach house. Is it weird that the kids are home all the time when this happens? No, no, not at all.

No, that's pretty, that is, that's highbrow, that's satire, that's highbrow satire it is.

Honestly, her article was gentle, though, compared to some of the others written and published at the time. Frances D'Andrea wrote in The Times Tribune. Most folks are too sophisticated to say that they believe in demons. No, I mean, I'm not.

All right, that's it, that's what I mean. He got a little step back.

He got a little sassy there. I'm not with you anymore. No, I'm not there either. But he said that, and he said, not the SMURLs.

They didn't try to hide their ghosts in the family closet. No, siree. They told everyone about the visitors from the spirit world and all the nasty things the ghosts have been doing to their family, their dog and their furniture for the last 18 months.

So basically, what he was saying was like, I think they're trying to stir up a story because it's the tail end of a dull August. I mean, yeah, we're entering into fall, you know, fall time, spooky season, get spooky with it. let's get spooky with it. But I mean, that's a lot.

That's one way to say it. That's a lot to spice up a dull August, I would say. And he was referring, when he was talking about this, mostly to a very disastrous press conference held in the SMURLs backyard at the end of August. Most of the comments or questions were at this point, intensely mocking, like the SMUrls, obviously. And one person said, Do you think you can arrange for a night with me in the Succubus?

Which like, that's really mean, and also because especially again. Like if he had this brain surgery and like that happened to be a complication afterwards. That he's dealing with, like hysteria and delusions. Yeah, now you're making fun of him, well, that's the thing.

It's also whenever I see, like adults bullying and bullying other adults, I'm like, that's pathetic. It is like it really like, regardless whether, regardless of whether you think they're pathetic or not, right, you're on their level.

If that's the case, like, you're sitting there in their backyard, exactly. Oh, can you make the ghost have sex with me too? It's like, get out of here, fucking sally.

Like, see you later, exactly, and it's like, Do you have nothing better? Like you're immersed in this shit? So go live your life. What are you saying about yourself that you're sitting here?

Yeah, let them think they have demons. Why is it bothering you? That's the thing people insert themselves in these things and it's like it doesn't have anything to do with you. If you don't want to hear about it, don't hear about it.

Exactly, and just to explain, because we don't always use like this amount of quotes in a story, but just to explain why I had used them. I feel like this story is such an interesting statement on how people in the press and just in general, will believe something so wholeheartedly. One day. And like, feast upon it and then fucking turn the next day, oh yeah, like, it's crazy. Well, that's the like, that's the way they. It's like you hoist someone up and you believe them and support them. And then you smack them down as hard as you can once they've reached a certain point.

And that's exactly what happened with this family, whether they were telling the truth or not. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Like they, it just turns. I just think it's like standing there and like mockingly asking them questions and stuff.

It's like, I don't know why you think you're better at this point, because you sitting there doing that. I'm like, that's that's like, loser behavior, loser, loser behavior, like you're a loser.

Like, just like, just go be like, Okay, I don't believe them bye. exactly like, just talk about it with your friends, yeah.

Kiki I just think in their backyard, to be mean to someone's face is like, Yeah, exactly.

I don't know about that. No, I don't like it. It's just it's spreading more negativity, which is going to create demons for you a little bit. Yeah, exactly.

In the backyard. But, you know, safe to say, that press conference, you know, didn't end on a high note, didn't go well. But the final nail in the coffin came in the beginning of September 1986, when the press reported that what a neighbor told them previously was true. The SMURLs were in negotiations with Star Productions to sell the rights to their story for a feature film.

But again, you, I think you could say multiple things on that one. They're a family of, they're like a pretty big family and they have four mouths to feed. So perhaps this did happen and they need to make money off of it. Yeah, maybe, and they see an opportunity.

Absolutely, or perhaps this was the goal all along. You never know, we don't know. But for skeptics, the fact this fact confirmed the suspicion that this had always been about fame and money for them.

And I can see that, I can see anything. Yeah, exactly. And Star Productions President Ralph Lama came forward and said, We have had several discussions. We haven't signed anything yet, but we hope to.

It's going to make a hell of a movie when it's finally made. I mean, it would. He confirmed it. And Janet Smurl expressed her disbelief at the statement, telling reporters I don't believe this. Obviously the press is making things up now.

We have no comment, so she wouldn't say either way, all right now. It should be said that whether the SMURLs were actually involved in talks with star productions at this time is pretty unclear. But within four years of this news going public, they had not only sold their rights to their story for publication of a book, but that book was adapted and made into a made for television movie titled The Haunted.

So they did get some stuff out of it. And in a later story published with the Philadelphia Inquirer, reporter Bill McAndrew contradicted Janet's claims that she couldn't believe this whole rumor. And he said he actually had been present for one of the family's meetings with the Star Productions president there. So that was pretty much the end of the spectacle, though. As soon as people found out that there was a pending film deal, it shattered their confidence in the story.

And, of course, there was still a handful of family and friends and devout Catholics that went to church with them, that believed them. But the majority of people had had enough. And by late October, the SMURls maybe trying to spice things up. They were calling the press to report that the demonic activity had miraculously ended. Oh, after the movie deal, after the whole debacle.

Oh, and it ended in October. I was like, I feel like the ghosts do not take vacation on October. Or maybe they were, maybe that's their busy season, so they were like, we got to get out of here.

They said on to the next one, they were like, We've got shit to do, Jack and Janet told reporters. We believe that the elimination of our problem can only be credited to the intercession of the blessed Virgin Mary. St. Michael, the Archangel. And to the sacred heart of Jesus who have answered our prayers and the prayers of the thousands of others through the Rosary. Took the words right out of my mouth.

That's what I was going to say, yeah.

Now CSI Cop there, even though they never gained entrance into this house, they were never allowed. They still completed their investigation from afar. CSI cop, CSI cop forever, and they offered insight into a possible explanation for the haunting.

In his report, Kurtz concluded Quote Our investigation of the SMURL case thus far. Thus far points to several possible alternative explanations for what has allegedly been happening. Without the need to invoke the occult or a paranormal one, okay? He said there was a faulty sewage pipe which could account for the strange and horrible odors that were reported by the SMURLs. And that it was a known problem within the neighborhood and had actually been reported to the town managers many times, that's horrifying, horrifying.

And then the team also managed to track down the previous residents of the house. They had lived there for 17 years, and they reported never having any problems or experiencing anything unusual. Okay, so. Ultimately, Kurtz and his team of investigators believed that, at the urging of and with the encouragement from Ed and Lorraine Warren. The SMURls got very caught up in the excitement of this moment. And that it was dramatically increased by the intense press interest and everything took off from there. And they said, As for why? or they, yeah, as for why the public spectacle got so far out of control, Kurtz said. The fact that the SMURLs have signed a book contract raises serious questions about their motives.

I mean, yeah, it does, and it does, I get it. I'm not saying that they're lying.

I'm just saying, it definitely makes you think, for sure, but what an interesting story, because at the end of it, it's an interesting story you really like. I don't know if the house was haunted one way or the other, but like, Wow, they went through it either way, that's it.

That they and they went for it, they went for it and got through it. I guess they threw it all around it, inside it, like, they just they did it, and at the end of the day, they made their fucking movie.

They got their fucking book written, so it's like, you know, they, and it, it's like, they, they. If they were lying, they spun. An interesting yarn, an interesting enough yarn, yeah, that, I guess didn't really like, hurt anyone.

No, you know, honestly, it's funny because usually in like, haunted stories, I'm looking for, like, the haunted stuff. Oh yeah, in the Bobby Mackey story, all the different things that happened there.

I was like, Oh shit, like, that's interesting in this story. I was more interested in, like the like, how people perceived them. And that's, and it's. And it really is interesting to me. That whole, like grown adults will make these things up.

Absolutely, it's happened and it's, and it is very interesting to me, how far they'll go with these stories, like what lengths? And again, I'm not saying they made it up.

I don't know, right, I wasn't in that house. No, but it is interesting when you do find out. Like the Lutzes, like the Lutzes admitted that they that it was a hoax.

Right? And it's like, so you just like, went for it, like, just full send. And it's like, did you guys have a discussion about this? did you game plan it out?

Was there an outline? That's the thing you know, like, especially with the Lutzes too, because you think about it like, you know, young couple, just thriving. I can't imagine just sitting on the couch with Drew and being like, What do you think if we, like, went to the fucking press and were like, this place is haunted as fuck?

You want to fake a haunting like like that. Are you trying to fake a haunting? yeah.

Is that what we're going to do with me? So I know it's real, like, what? just like?

How does that conversation start? That's what I wonder, You're right. It's just very interesting. Imagine sitting on the couch with John and being like, I got a fucking game changer idea.

You know, I got a date night, you want to fake a haunting? I got a date year. All planned out for us. Let's see how long we can stretch this thing. You like the press?

You like the press, they're about to love us. It's so strange it really is, but I don't think their game plan accounted for it going terribly, terribly wrong and everyone turning on them.

I don't think so either. What an interesting story, regardless, very interesting story. The SmURls, the SmURls.

That's all I got for you. With a name like SMURL, it's got to be good. It does so. We have to keep listening.

And we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you're mean to people and you doubt their story right off the bat.

You know, don't do that, it's rude, but like, definitely investigate CSI Cop all the way through.

If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com Slash Survey.