"Adam Driver"

Sean, when was the last time you had three hot mics? That was like in my early 20s. My early 20s. Yeah, yeah. And by the way, it was confusing.

We didn't know which end was up. I bet. None of them wanted to be called Michael. No, uh-uh. Mike, Mike, Mike.

All right. And they were all equally hot? They were all equally hot. Okay. Well, welcome to SmartLess.

Smart. Less.

Smart. Less.

Smart. Less.

Um, that was fun that we got to see each other today. I know, just a half an hour ago. In person. Yeah, listener, very rarely will the three of us actually see each other in person before we start doing this. And, uh, we didn't, we didn't, we didn't expend any magic that we wouldn't have left for the show.

Yeah, we saved. We kept it real dry. No, no, the magic got saved, for sure. I gotta say, Jason was not feeling well and he was on the other side of the table at this big conference room. And I got home, I got a little tickle on my throat.

You do not. I don't know. It's in your head. Do you really? My virus has great reach on it.

Did it? Well, I don't know. But, Jay, that was so, like, Wilson, that was so nice of you, if you're feeling sick, to go to the party on Saturday, too. Yeah, it was nice of you. Well, but I didn't really feel it just yet.

I wasn't really sure, you know. I would have never known. you were in a good mood and lovely on Saturday. Jason did this game, he did this game. What game?

I was standing outside, Sean, and you had just left. We didn't see each other, but Jason came out and he was holding two cupcakes. One was a big, normal-sized one and one was a tiny, baby one. Today, when we just left? No, no, no.

At the party on Saturday. And he's got these cupcakes and he's doing a whole dance with it. And he's, like, eating the little one. And then somebody said to him, Why did you have, well, I'm just gonna eat the little one and I just got this one. So he continued to talk and he put the big one, normal one, down.

And he eventually, well, first of all, he was like, have you seen this before? And he took the top off and he turned it upside down and ate it like a sandwich so that you always get an icing bite. But then he put it down. Then this person said that he put it down. Then he put it a little further away.

And then he just went over and he walked it over to another table. Is that right, Jimmy? Because you were like, it's too tempting close to you. You don't want to have a grenade near you. Wait, I did not know that there was cupcakes there.

Yeah, well, Sean, that was not the point. Here's why you don't know. Fuck me, man. Well, first of all, you drifted over, you know, I gave everyone a very useful lesson as to how to eat a cupcake, which a lot of people don't know. I didn't know that.

You twist off the top, you flip it over, you make it a sandwich, and then you don't get frosting up your nose. That's A. B, the reason you don't know there were cupcakes there, Sean, is because you did what you always do, very rudely, very rudely. You're the first one at a party so that you can say you were there and that you can't get yelled at when you leave early because you've put in a bunch of time and you get your food and then you pack up your shit and you leave before anyone is even there. yet.

You know what, Sean, it's not about you. You're like, I want to go home, yet. Everybody does, man. There was a birthday cake that came out later and some singing and love. So why did you go at 7 when it started, and then leave so early?

Me and Richard were there and Jenny were there. Richard and I. Tricky, Dicky. And no, I enjoy going to those things. I was happy to go.

I don't have a long fuse for parties. I'm the one with the short fuse because I can't get into my cups, like everyone else, and start laughing at shit that doesn't deserve to be even smiled at. Did you have the chili? I had the chili at the time when everyone else had it. Where did you get the cupcakes?

JB goes,

I gotta get out of here. He said, where are you going? I got a gummy and a Lakers game to get into, man. That late at night on a Saturday? He was taping.

I recorded the game. Jason's beard and hair is growing so gloriously long. It's crazy. It was the talk of the party. Yeah, it was.

How I can't really grow facial hair? No, you look good. Shut up, it looks good. What do you see in three more months when it looks really bad? No, thank you.

Also, I doubt it. I think it looks really good. Whose guest is it today? It's my guest, and guess what? You're going to be real psyched.

Hey, guessed what?

It's true. You guys are going to be... Let us guess. We've never really guessed. Male or female?

No, guess. You're going to narrow it down. Five guesses to nail it down. Male. Actor?

Older or younger than us? Younger, decidedly. Not decidedly, but yeah. This is a person who is a America or the world... He has to get ready for this.

His awards nominations has its own Wikipedia page. Really? This is mostly film or television or music? Mostly film, some television, but mostly film. Two Academy Award nominations, two BAFTAs, four Emmys,

three Globes, five SAG Award nominations, Tony Award nomination, Critics Choice, up the wazoo. I'm nervous. now. Here I'll give you a list of the names of all the directors this guy's worked with. Tell me, if you like any of these names.

Ridley Scott,

Terry Gilliam, Steven Soderbergh, Martin Scorsese, Russell, J.J. Abrams,

Noah Baumbach,

Adam Driver, Shawn Levy. Did I get him? Bring him on out.

That's my brother. That's my sweet, sweet brother. That's why I said you're gonna be... You guys know each other? We worked on a project together.

Adam, you were awesome on Saturday Night Live. Amazing. I just watched it. Hysterical. Hysterical.

It's just like when you get a real actor in there doing Saturday Night Live, every sketch works. This guy's making choices. Yeah. Yeah, and I noticed... I don't know.

I think he's just sensitive to the material and he's a funny dude, obviously. Well, he's making choices. Good choices. I've seen some good actors fucking bomb on SNL, let's be honest. Yeah, that's true.

Adam, you were so good. You were so funny. Your timing is so fucking good, dude. We are dating this episode, but all good. What about the piano playing?

That seemed very real. I know. I was blown away. Yeah, it was real. Is that you?

I'd love to see a piano off between you.

and Sean. I don't know if they use that. Yeah, that's a term. Adam, tell me about that. How long did you play piano?

Did you study? I played since I was a kid, but my mom tried to teach me, so I didn't stick to it. I feel like you're supposed to... You could cancel, huh? You're not supposed to...

You're not supposed to have a parent teach you how to play piano because you never actually stick with it. Is that true? That's why I dropped it.

My parents thought they were being real crafty when I said, I don't want to play. I hate practicing. They would make me... And you have the same material for a week, right? Because you have lessons once a week.

So they would say, we're going to find out whether you're practicing or not. You're going to record your practice and we're going to play it when we get home from work. And so I just record it once on the Monday and then just playing the same tape all week. And they never figured it out.

There was not a lot of progress from Monday to Sunday. Really? Yeah, that was it. They weren't bright, but they were strict. And you've always been such a fucking shit.

Yeah, I know. You've always been just a little shit since the day you were fucking born. That's not about me, though. Let's talk to Adam. Adam Driver.

Dude, I'm so stoked to have you on here.

You're just such a talented dude. Everything you do is so fucking great. Thanks. And then when I start to find out, when I look back and look at your background,

it seems to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, you're from Southern California, right? Were you raised in Southern California? No, I was raised in Indiana. I lived in San Diego until I was seven. So you were raised in Indiana.

Then 9-11 hits. You join the military. You go into the Marines. And I know you've talked about it before. But you go in.

It just seems like you had to go a long way to get... But you knew what you wanted to do. You wanted to go to Juilliard the first time, when you were 17.. Is that right?

And then you ended up going later. Walk me through... What I'm sort of driving at is... You will get to talk at some point. I swear.

I'm fine. I could just listen to you guys. You're just a dude who is destined... You knew what you wanted to do and you were just going to get there, no matter what. Kind of.

I did. plays in high school and then I auditioned for Juilliard because they didn't check grades. That was the prerogative of colleges that I was going to. I knew that Juilliard had a reputation of being the best acting school for theater. Then I didn't get in.

Then 9-11 happened. I feel like a lot of people, a lot of friends in Indiana, thought they were going to join, but then none of them did. I was the only one that did. We all got riled up. I was the only one that actually walked through the door.

Then it wasn't until I was in the military really that I'm like, if I get to be a civilian again, or when I get to be a civilian again, I knew I wanted to go back and try again to be an actor. Was that ever in question? by the way? How deep did you get into your military exploits? I loved it.

The whole plan when I was in the military was to make a career of it, was to retire in the Marine Corps. Oh, really? It was only because I had a mountain biking accident and I broke my sternum that I tried to train on it, so I could still go overseas, because all of the guys that I went to boot camp and then SOI and then went into the fleet with it was all the same kind of core group of people, and then they were all going to go do a Westpac of Iraq and Afghanistan, and again I was kind of trying to train on a broken sternum so I could go with them, and I got dropped to a different unit and all my friends went, and so it was not good. It was taking a long time to heal, so I had to be medically separated. You didn't get to go?

So you joined the Marine Corps as a response to 9-11, or you wanted to do it anyway? It was kind of two-fold. It was a response to 9-11, but also I wasn't doing anything. I was working odd jobs. I had two telemarketing jobs and I was working at a...

I'd love to hear a little bit of that script. One was for a basement waterproofing company called Ben Franklin Construction. You probably... Are things smelling dank downstairs? Don't hang up.

I used to have to read that same script, but for a different business. For a different business. Sure, sure. I know. Wink, wink.

That was kind of it, and I got something in the mail and my stepdad and I were having an argument about me being a loser and not having any jobs, and he, kind of like offhandedly, said maybe you should join the military. and again it was in the same time of everyone kind of being like we want to get involved and do something. so it kind of all kind of coalesced and I think I made the decision by January and by February I was gone. So much so that they were like are you on the run from the law? Because usually people take a...

You're very eager, Mr. Driver. Wow, that's crazy. How's your relationship with your stepdad now? It's surprisingly good.

Is he proud of you?

I guess you won the question of whether or not you were a loser.

You overachieved. Not only am I going to join the military, but I'm going to go through boot camp, I'm going to become a marine and then I'm going to kick ass in the completely opposite end of the world as well. Become a fucking movie star. It's pretty remarkable. You come back from serving, you leave the military or you get discharged, as you said, and then you're like what?

Back at square one? How do you climb the mountain that you've climbed? You reapplied at Juilliard, yeah? I reapplied at Juilliard. Actually, I should say before I left for the military, I tried coming to LA and doing the whole acting thing.

That totally failed. I had a Lincoln Town car and I was paying rent in the back of my parents' house and I loaded up this massive car and I drove across country to California and I broke down in Amarillo, Texas, and wound up spending all my money fixing my car. so by the time I got to Santa Monica not even LA I was here for 48 hours before I had to turn around and drive right back because I didn't have any more money. I had no money to stay. I drove out too from Chicago and my car broke down in Colorado like around a mountain, and I was dragging the muffler for, like the last part, and I had to pull over.

it cost me a thousand bucks, but I made it. Oh, really? Yeah, same. I flipped in my car. it was outside of Amarillo, Texas, and I hitched a ride into town and then took my car and got it fixed.

but that was all my money. I had just 200 bucks left, which I knew from having just made the trip was enough gas money to get home, and I made a whole production about saying goodbye to everybody back in India. Sure, and then, 48 hours later, you're back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't believe that.

You know, Adam, a lot of people would, after an experience like that, which is, I mean, that's not traumatizing, but it's a lot like you go through, like you said, you make a big production out of, I'll see you guys later. you give your farewell to the troop, as it were, and then, a week later, you're back or less, and then you go and then you go into the military. a lot of people would be like, you know what the universe was trying to tell me something. or it's a lot to pick yourself up again and to go, no, I want to fucking do this, this is kind of what I'm getting at at the beginning, which is like no, you're determined. you knew that you had a purpose in this world, especially doing this.

Not really, no, I still. I still didn't want to. the idea of being an actor was like being an astronaut. I had no connections to anybody in the acting world in a small town in Indiana, so I just kind of put that idea to bed. I still liked movies, but I just kind of gave up on that when the Marine Corps came along.

I fully threw myself at that and it was only during the military where I felt like, well, in comparison to the Marine Corps, civilian life, I think, should be pretty easy. I knew that New York was kind of what I wanted to do. if I ever got out and having, I could sleep in Central Park. I felt more confident that I could be an adult and survive. How did you know you were any good at acting?

In high school? the response I got from people was positive, but it's a high school in Indiana, I didn't really know until I auditioned for Juilliard the second time. How did that happen? You get out of the military, how do you audition the second time? What was that process like?

I got out and I went to a school called University of Indianapolis. then I started getting parts and plays right away. I knew that the audition date for Juilliard was, they had three days, four days in New York, they don't do this now, but they used to do four days in New York, four days in Chicago and four days in L.A. I knew they were auditioning in Chicago in February, so I drove up and I stayed the night and I auditioned in Chicago and then I found out I got in two months later. Did you enjoy your time in the Marine Corps and while you were there, were you thinking about acting the whole time?

No, I enjoyed it until a point.

really, because I was on the verge of being separated, all my guys kind of left.

then I'm like okay, maybe I shouldn't. I'm not long for this. That's weird, because the whole time Sean's acting, he's thinking about Marines. Hey, so, listen.

Like a yin yang thing. I get it, Adam. So you go to fucking Chicago, it blows me away. man, it's just like not long shot, because you're obviously a mega talent to do. but you go and you audition, and then, two months later, you find out it's your fucking dream.

what's your reaction when you find out? you get into Juilliard like I was beyond. I was working full time at a Target distribution warehouse and going to school full time at University of Indianapolis. so I was kind of pulling all nighters and then going to school full time. so I was beyond jumping and screaming.

It must have felt like this is your chance. you're going to get pulled into this, out of your world and into this other world that you've been trying to get into and you've been dreaming of. this is about to happen, it must have felt like that, but I wasn't even thinking of like oh, now I'm going to be an actor in plays or now I'm going to be in films. just the idea of going to New York was enough and.

you know the alumni of Juilliard I was very aware of and how you know it's a conservatory and it was a great place to put a lot of energy. you know I was in the early 20s. Did you have a good idea of what I mean? obviously you've got a very good idea of what it would be like to live in New York. we all see it in TV and movies and what not.

but Juilliard itself, did you have a pretty decent idea of what that experience was going to be like and if so, did it match with that idea? once you got there? No frame of reference for what living in New York would be, well other than films, but no frame of reference of like an acting conservatory. a lot of the kids in my class were four years younger than I was and kind of had gone to performing arts schools or they were there for their graduate degree, they don't do this anymore. even if you went to an undergrad program, you would get your diploma, but now it's a graduate program also.

so people had come from performing arts backgrounds and I didn't, so when I moved to the city the summer before I started and would go to the performing arts library and try to read plays that everybody knew that I didn't know, like Tony Kushner plays and David Mamet plays, and I'd watch the performances in the video library at Lincoln Center. Yeah, that's so cool, You know. I know you did Burn This in 2019. I did that in college. of course I played Larry, he played Pale.

of course we would have been a brilliant match. we would have been great, but a friend of mine was in the play and they didn't, on the huge marquee downtown LA, he did Burn This and they didn't separate the letters. so it looked like burnt his, and so that's what we referred to. That's LA theater for you. That's LA theater.

And we will be right back. Hey, it's Guy Raz here, the host of How I Built This, a podcast that gives you a front row seat to how some of the biggest products were built, and the innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists behind them. Every week I speak to someone new, stories like Justin Wolverton's, a lawyer who just wanted a healthy alternative to ice cream, so he created Halo Top in his Cuisinart, or Todd Graves, who grew his fried chicken restaurant, Raising Cane's into one of the most successful fast food chains in the U.S. All of these great conversations can help you learn how to think big, take risks and navigate crises in life, and work from people who've done all of that and more. Follow How I Built This on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen to How I Built This early and ad free right now on Wondery Plus. It's all a lighthearted nightmare. on our podcast, Morbid. We're your hosts. I'm Alina Urquhart and I'm Ash Kelly, and our show is part true crime, part spooky and part comedy.

The stories we cover are well researched. He claimed and confessed to officially killing up to 28 people with a touch of humor. I'd just like to go ahead and say that if there's no band called Malevolent Deity, that is pretty great a dash of sarcasm and just garnished a bit with a little bit of cursing. This mother f***er lied like a liar, Like a liar. And if you're a weirdo like us and love to cozy up to a creepy tale of the paranormal, or you love to hop in the Wayback Machine and dissect the details of some of history's most notorious crimes, you should tune in to our podcast Morbid.

Follow Morbid on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and ad free by joining Wondery Plus and the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Nancy's love story could have been ripped right out of the pages of one of her own novels. She was a romance mystery writer who happens to be married to a chef. But this story didn't end with a happily.

ever after, When I stepped into the kitchen, I could see that Chef Brophy was on the ground and I heard somebody say, call 911. As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries, so when suspicion turned to Dan's wife, Nancy, we weren't that surprised. The first person they look at would be the spouse. We understand that's usually the way they do it, But we began to wonder Had Nancy gotten so wrapped up in her own novels. There are murders in all of the books that she was playing them out in real life?

Follow Happily Never After Dan and Nancy on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Happily Never After Dan and Nancy early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Alright, back to the show Now. Adam, I've never met you. I'm a huge fan. I'm like chomping at the bit to ask you about Star Wars, which I'm sure you're sick of talking about. Just cool it.

Sorry, we apologize, But you do seem like not knowing you at all. You seem to be a very kind, sweet, down to earth, intelligent, yet introverted person, and so what is it like doing something like Saturday Night Live, which is the opposite of being introverted, and it's just going balls out like, is it scary? And is that why you wanted to do it? Or is it just another job? It's kind of theater, I mean.

in a way, That's what I at least try to remind myself, But it's terrifying. But I enjoy how it feels like theater on film. I like those old school plays on tape that they used to do live Richard Burton doing Camelot. That's the only modern day equivalent of a show that does that, And I really enjoy the pressure.

But I'm also on my best behavior in things like this and in public. the real egomaniacal asshole that's just waiting to come out all the time. We can't wait to meet him. I spent a few weeks with you. Bring him out, please.

You did seem.

beautifully relaxed. There was an energy there, for sure, but you certainly weren't terrified. No, no, no, The first time I did it I thought I was going to pass out, but this time I felt at ease And I enjoy the pressure, and I like it. when there's a lot to do. When the pressure's on and there's a lot of text and a lot of moving pieces and a lot of things falling apart, I actually kind of enjoy it.

It reminds me of theater. I noticed you're not really reading the cards that much either. Did you try to commit certain lines to memory so you could perform them? well? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like it.

usually when you can kind of tell that someone's reading the cards and it kind of destroys the illusion, and when they're well written it's easy to memorize. so some of it, it's not that difficult. They hate it when you don't read the cards. though, Is there one sketch that you particularly loved doing last Saturday? There's one that I really liked that was cut.

It was this one called Court Case, and it was this three-page speech. that's not funny at all, and it only works if it's played as if it's absolutely serious and we cut it. but then they released it online afterwards, but I loved that at the dress. I loved the dead air and how awkward it was in the audience. Wait, are they doing that now?

Are they putting the dress online? Yeah, some of it. Oh, that's cool With those, there was two of them that they released Court Case 1 and this one called Actor's Journey. For Tracy, dress is short for dress rehearsal. That's such a cool idea For Tracy, let her know that they do dress rehearsal earlier on Saturday night.

It's like a full performance of the show with some additional sketches and they cut a couple sketches before the live show. Dress usually is over by about 10, 10.30 and then the live show is 11.30, but I think that's cool because there have been so many great.

sketches over the years that were cut after dress for various reasons, and not always because they didn't work, just because, sometimes political, They also don't like the term skit either, it's sketch. Oh yeah, never say skit, But I like it, I like Lorne, I like the, yeah, it feels like a, you know. Yeah, you're very comfortable in it. You're so great at comedy too, Do you have? you're not a strategic guy.

you're so beautifully down to earth with your career, it seems. but do you ask your people to look for comedy versus drama and try to keep a balance there? or is it just kind of like the best script wins? Yeah, lately now, because I'm trying to change, because I was working consistently, basically all through my 30s, and now that I have two kids, I've been trying to switch. of how I've been working, you know, where I'm now.

I'm just, like I can't be gone that long and I don't want to be gone that long anymore. so I'm trying to probably like game the system, and for me the only way is now is trying to work on things from the beginning if I can, but I'm not against it, it's just whatever.

no one's really asked me to do something like that and I haven't found anything that I really wanted to do, but if something came along, I would totally do it. But you don't sort of like wake up in the middle of the night and stare at the ceiling and go like I need to do a comedy. No, no, no, I'd like to, I mean I'd like to, but I also don't want it to be bad, you know, so I know that you know, the Albert Brooks to me is like you know, the top. there's not a lot of people that are writing like that and you really got to find them. Yeah, they're tough to find.

How old are your kids? Eight months is my youngest and six is my other one, so six My kids are five years apart. Is that good for you? Yeah, I mean it's good because one gets to help you take care of the other, or at least they think they are. But then, like, you know, hanging out, you know, at a certain age is like, it's not.

you know, when they, what are they now, 17 and 12, it's, you know, like they're going to be closer when they get older. but there are times when that five year gap is not worse. I will say. one of the nice things I've seen a couple times is your 17 year old dropping your 12 year old at school because they go to the same school, and that's pretty funny. watching Franny drop Maple was one of the funniest fucking things.

I don't like it, though. I miss it. How are you liking dad stuff? I love it. I'm in what you're describing as science fiction to me, the idea that one kid will, even now he is very protective over her, and I feel like we gave him, you know, six years of attention, and he's totally fine.

And if you're like me, you missed changing diapers, you missed swaddling, you missed, like, I was so excited to get to do it again. No,

this time I'm like we forgot how much babies suck. you know, they don't tell you anything, they get runny noses and it just destroys the next three days and they have sleep progressions and they're teething. I mean, I am more aware this time that I'm like oh, this is finite. I have to remember this because it's going to go away quickly. I was so anxious for him to get older that I wasn't.

And also the first time, you're not because you've never done it, you're like is this normal, should he be sick this much, should he be not eating, he hasn't eaten for two days, Jesus fucking, you end up having those, we have a three and a half year old and we've just kind of, just emerging from it again after my older kids are teenagers and I'm like, fuck. man, I just forgot exactly what you're talking, I just forgot all that shit, waking up in the night, all the fucking, I'm like, fuck, And they're durable, I mean the first one you don't realize how durable they are and the second one you're like. it's fine, she's fine, she's okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Force Awakens.

I just want to. Well, let's talk about how you diaper your dog, Sean, Real quick. No, I just want to get through it, so you guys don't have to suffer And then we can move on. Do you want to call Scotty in here? Yeah, I did, I texted him and he said, yeah, he said he wrote, well, everybody knows, it's no secret that me and Scotty, Sean's husband, Scotty, is like, the two of them are like the massive.

Adam might not be up on you and Scotty's, you know. Yeah, that's okay, that's what I'm saying. No, everybody who listens is listening. So, Adam, when you Again, that's like 25 people, here we go. Question, please.

25 people, We're good. So, I have the obvious stock stock questions, which is Is it real?

Please don't tell me it's not real. Yeah, Please tell me it's all real, Totally real. I'm there now. I'm there now. No, I want to know, like, were you a fan before?

What was it like getting, you know, like getting that call to be like? Yeah, you can ask one at a time. Okay, sorry, What was the first one? The first one was like, were you a fan? Were you a fan?

I grew up, my dad was more of a Star Trek fan than a Star Wars fan, but I did have a couple Star Wars toys that we got garage sale. but I was a fan of the movies, yeah, but then to be asked to do it was. I thought about it a lot because, again, I didn't want to be bad in it. So you got an offer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got an offer, but there was no script to read, which I'd never done before.

so you had to commit to it. JJ walked me through the whole thing, but there was no script. that you could actually see how that played out. But also, Adam, I'm sure you thought at the time because I was certainly we had just finished working together I was very well aware of you, your talent, your position in the community, what your potential was as far as jobs and fancy directors and all that stuff. I'm sure at a point you must have thought, even though you're not a strategic thinker, annoying like that, you must have thought I don't want to sign up for something where this is going to be louder than anything I'll ever do in my career, am I tying myself to this for multiple films?

Did any of that go through your head? I'm sure it must have, a little bit. No, actually no, I never thought that this was going to be the only job I got. I don't know why I didn't think that it was going to be. I didn't think I'd do anything bigger than that, but I I'd hoped, I was optimistic, that I would work after it, and hopefully not, you know, I wasn't thinking that too far, too far ahead like that, of what the end result of it would be, because the end result could also be you were in a movie that everybody saw and nobody liked, and they didn't like you in it and they didn't like the movie and the idea that a movie of that scale that anyone would actually watch it.

I was just coming from Girls, and this is where I leave you and Trax. You were so great in that movie and it was very Impassionate people about it. like Sean would be like. what is he doing in this? and he's ruining the franchise.

you don't want that? No, I would never. but it's got to be cool to go through the process of seeing the drawings of your character, the fittings, the costume fittings and touching the props. all that stuff must have been so surreal.

Don't wreck your pants, Sean.

Jesus Christ. That'd be so cool. By the way, you're one of the few people that I turned to Scotty, and I said I have such a massive talent crush on that guy because you're so good in everything you do, especially in that franchise. You know what is amazing, and also this fits in, Jason, a little bit with what you were saying. you you do like these Star Wars, one of the most.

I don't know if there's a bigger brand in terms of film, maybe sort of the Marvel cinema universe and all that kind of shit. but you do that, and not only does it not paint you into a corner, it kind of does the opposite. it opens you up to all these people globally, and then you continue going. I said at the start, when the boys were trying to guess who my guest was. if you look at the list of directors that you've worked with, it's almost peerless.

in that way, it's remarkable how many of these incredible, some of the greatest directors of our time have all wanted, have all asked you to come and go on these creative journeys with them, and that's got to feel very, and I guess I also noticed the way you talk about stuff like yeah, you are not a strategic thinker. it seems like you are like you, just kind of go with what inspires you, am I right about that a little bit? Well, yes and no, I'm not strategic in that. I'm like this needs to make money. so we I should think that way.

I do get now that you don't do movies that make money. they'll stop asking you to make movies. that's what I've been told, but in my mind it's a filmmaker's medium. so I'm strategic in that. well, isn't the goal then to work with great filmmakers and?

sometimes I feel like, if I connect with it, then I can, but people that I've wanted to work with where the thing that they wanted to do I knew I couldn't do or I felt like I wouldn't get there. I'm not really answering your question, but I am strategic in that. it's a filmmaker's medium. it's a plays or a playwright's medium. TV seems to be a writer's medium.

those are the people that I always wanted to work with and I made myself available to to try to work with them if it came up. you've also in the last two years, played two very significant, portrayed two very significant Italian men, one a designer and both incredible creative minds, if you think about within their thing right you played Maurizio Gucci and now you're playing currently Enzo Ferrari. I guess that's a good example of not being strategic in a way that I probably should so many people have been like it, just kind of worked out that way. I think someone probably should have said maybe because it's going to come up a lot, but I'm like well, it's Ridley and it's Michael and, in my mind, some of the best filmmakers who gives a shit that there's two Italians back to back and also, like you said, two incredible filmmakers and two great stories. so who gives a shit?

what it is? you'd make ten in a row, probably if they were great stories and great directors. well, probably not Italians anymore, because I'm surprised how much it comes up. you have a thing and I'm like. it's two, it's two Italians.

I'm like. alright, you know, these things are not a place this is, but press isn't a place where you have a nuanced conversation. that seems like a hard idea of what is it with Italy? well, I mean it's less to do with Italy, although I like it, but it's more about Ridley Scott and Michael Mann and the projects themselves.

Italy is not the first thing on my mind. you're not calling your agents. hey, give me another great Italian role to play. Campari, I hear is not done in Italy.

were you into car racing at all before hand? I was into cars. I knew of Ferraris, mostly from Miami Vice.

but it was unattainable. it wasn't part of my upbringing. well again, Michael Mann, right there are you like a sports guy. you play a lot of sports, boxing. I know I like watching.

I'm kind of stuck in time a little bit with the late 90's, Michael Jordan. so I'm just now. only recently, because I'm trying to work less, I've gotten back into going to basketball. but basketball is my sport. does that make you a Knicks fan or a Pacers fan?

I think it makes me a Nets fan because I'm in Brooklyn, a Nets.

so basketball is your thing, but you're not like a watch football all day, kind of guy. no, no, I wish I did. sometimes I watch football all day, but not really. I'll watch Tyson highlights, Mike Tyson highlights, but I won't keep up to date with. I miss the Tyson Fury fights.

I'm not a full man. I miss Mike Tyson. remember Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was just like. it was just horrific watching what he would do to people, and I could not stop watching.

we haven't had a boxer like that since him, have we? no?

no, I mean what's his name, the guy, the English guy.

Tyson Fury.

he's been fairly dominant, but not in that same way. his last fight didn't he get knocked down twice. it's all UFC. right, it's all UFC. I can't, you know?

I'm sure we'll have some fans who are like grow up, but I find UFC to be so dark. the energy is so dark for me, I don't know there's something about it. I used to watch it right before I go to bed in the middle of the night. in my dream I thought I was in a fight and I threw an elbow at Amanda and I just missed her freaking nose.

I just whacked a pillow that she was sleeping on because I was in a fight in my dream because you're watching UFC right before I went to bed. it was like the stupidest thing I was like. I might as well have a big steak too. I didn't end up killing somebody, I don't know. anyway, we digress.

we'll be right back.

and now back to the show.

Adam, is there any more talk about more Star Wars stuff? oh boy, look who's back.

they're doing stuff, but not with me. you're done because the character's done, yeah.

but wait, did you? but would you? but if you did, what character do you think you would fight? but if they came to you tomorrow and JJ was really nice about it? no, I want to know.

can you just give me one good story from filming that was great or went wrong, or something that was surprising, or you know what I loved, this is what I loved. it was at the end of Force Awakens and you're doing the final battle with Rey. it's like he's stuck in an elevator at Comic Con.

it's your fucking nightmare. I just want to say I'm never going to run into the guy ever again. I hope I do, but when you're wounded, when she got you and you're walking around in a circle and you start banging the side of your hip like this, trying to get the pain away because you're bleeding, whose idea was that? Such a cool specific actor? I've never seen that, so cool.

thanks, I will actually legitimately say that was mine the idea that how it was pitched to me again, none of these were written, but at the very beginning his journey was supposed to be the opposite of Vader's, in that he starts almost the most, as opposed to someone who's the most dark from the beginning and then, by the end of the series, becomes the most vulnerable. he starts the most vulnerable and becomes little by little.

more committed to the dark side. I feel like eventually they, I think, got rid of that idea. but in my mind, as I was playing it, that's what I was working towards. so all of this stuff is anytime that, even abstractly, by the end of the movie it starts anything that starts to come into his world, that reminds him that he's vulnerable. he has to get rid of it, I think, just in an abstract way.

it was... so when you got wounded and you were bleeding, you were like I gotta get rid of this. yeah, it wasn't very conscious, I wasn't consciously thinking of it. I think that's just.

he's trying to snuff out anything. he's getting more and more so by the time after he kills Han. hopefully that you see in his face that he shifts into.

he's made a choice that he's going to commit to the dark side. how did you like the pace of that, all the effects and stunts and things like that? I would imagine, because of their luxury of schedule too, that you didn't have to shoot a lot of pages every day. I just remember, working with you, that you like to keep a nice momentum going. you stay in it and you're ready.

how were you able to throttle up and throttle back with the slow pace? there's a massive adjustment. even when this is where I leave you, I hadn't quite figured out where to be economical at all the breaks in between. I never figured out the language of a film set, so I was still figuring it out, so I was wasting a lot of energy trying to keep something like kind of an engine going. I made Star Wars was way more exhausting for me than I made it more exhausting than it should have been, because I hadn't quite figured out the momentum of a set that was that big before.

all the things I'd worked on were really small and they moved pretty fast. what did you learn? I love that idea. I remember somebody saying coming off Arrested Development and then doing a couple movies, I was like fuck. making a movie is so boring because it would just take so fucking long and you have all this big time in between, especially making a comedy.

it's so hard to make a good comedy movie because there's just no momentum and you need that to keep it up. and so what did you do actively to kind of train yourself to perform in films that was different? did you have something like a technique? usually the director sets the pace of the set. I don't like to be the person that tries to control the pace or rhythm of a set.

I kind of let the person, and so I have to adjust, like Spike Lee and Soderbergh, shoot really fast. for me that's not comfortable, but it's their movie and their film. so I adjust to what it is that they're doing. so things like that I won't go back to the trailer. I'll stay on set mostly and then, if I need to escape.

a conversation, a side conversation, then I will just to try to stay focused, like questions about Star Wars. some fucking uber nerds, you're trying to get into being. Enzo Ferrari, one more thing.

when they were on planet Voltan? was it true that the Caribbean sun burned their helmets off? Sean? of all the characters in all the Star Wars universe, what character do you think you would have liked to have played the most? me?

C-3PO, Luke Skywalker, of course, Luke Skywalker? yeah, of course. well, with a lower octave maybe.

what's that?

something about the Tosche station. we wanted to go back to the Tosche station. Mark Hamill says it really whiny. it's such a funny line. everybody makes fun of it.

now, do you know what I'm talking about? I wanted to go back into town to pick up some power converters at the Tosche station. I remember that.

Adam. but last we're done with the Star Wars. are you so happy to not have to talk about it at length? I know we did a little bit here, but are you like, do you try to avoid? do you try to focus on moving forward?

no, I don't. honestly, not a lot of people talk to me about it. when they do, they mostly ask me. even what you're asking is different than what most people ask me, and the only thing about it is I would talk at length, often about some movie that you're trying to support, and then you say one thing about Star Wars, and that becomes the thing I'm like. what the fuck was the point of?

yeah, yeah, do you miss shooting a series in Brooklyn? I do, do you really? I bet you'd love that, because I'd be close to home. I didn't realize how luxurious that was. wait, you said this already.

where are you from? originally? Indiana? oh look, who just joined the podcast? we talked about it a few times.

he was in a blackout trying to form a Star Wars question. you know most people when they talk in the conversation, they don't spend all their time thinking about what I'm going to say. when other people are talking, they just listen. that's how conversation happens. so what's your feeling about?

I think it's fascinating. when people would you ever move to Indiana?

you would never live in Los Angeles. it's just not your speed. well, he did.

it's not my. I enjoy the four seasons. I get it. God that's been coming up so much lately with us about LA and New York. right, JB, we were talking about it the other night.

I lived in New York for over 20 years and when I left when my older kids were little, I moved to LA and I was like I don't know if I ever want to move to New York and now, these days more and more, I'm like I've been dying to live there since I was 16.

why'd you stay? I would just love to. because of the seasons, because of the. there's so many different industries that are centered there. so the people you talk to have something to say about so many things you know nothing about.

it's not a company town like LA. LA's such a company town. it is boring in that way. we always say that if all your references are just about this, hey, what you working on? that's what I feel when I come here, because every time I come it's for something that is related to that.

I've actually never spent time here, so I can't really say that. but it feels that way with New York, there's just so much other shit going on that has nothing to do with it. it's stimulating.

everybody's working doing something that you don't know anything about. it's very interesting which, if you can, it's also nice to get out of the city, because you can just be sitting in your apartment and feel the energy of the place outside and feel like you need to be doing something which can be exhausting. but I know I love New York. I'll stay all over. I have a question for all three of you, because you all three have kids.

when you take your kid to a school for the first time, it's got to be like. I don't want to deal with the.

I have to meet everybody. how are you? and then they are asking to ask you dumb questions, like I'm asking you, Adam, dumb questions or whatever. you're going to find yourself trapped by teachers or other parents. how do you deal with all that?

because you're a known person. you're in the public eye when my son was born.

before he was in school. I didn't really go outside with him much because I didn't want people to bother him. and then the one time I went out with him in Italy, we were like oh it's the pandemic. clearly no one's following us, and boom, they got us and people took pictures of my kid, but then it was to a point where I should go outside. I'm missing out on all this shit.

do you get hassled? by paparazzi and stuff like that? not paparazzi necessarily, but people, and it's all good. it's fine, but when you're with your kid and you're trying to do something, he's at the age where he's starting to track. put it together.

so what does it look like for you? I do want to ask you a little bit about Ferrari. I can't wait to see it working with Michael Mann. what was that process like for you? because it was pretty all-encompassing.

I imagine it was prosthetics that we didn't realize were going to be as involved. we had no money, not a lot of money for how Michael wanted to do it and not a lot of time. so it was very 17 hour days, sometimes a couple times 20 hour days in Modena, where everything was happening, where everything happened. for Enzo, it's like the barber shop. he went to the grandson of the guy who actually was his barber, the actual factory, the place where the crash was.

everything is very meticulous and authentic and incredibly thoroughly researched, going to the factory and seeing the engines shipping in some of the actual cars that won the Mille Miglia, some of these $70 million Ferraris that he would just bring there just to get the sound and hook up nine mics to them and drive it through a tunnel. it's very thorough, you know you kind of get it, but at the same time he's not. he's very researched but is after something pretty abstract.

he's famously well researched and very meticulous about clothes and sound and all of the details, but then is very good about making shit up in the moment. you mentioned Miami Vice, I was a huge Miami Vice fan. you were? of the show. I was a young teen.

did you dress like them? I'll bet he did, and DJ, Don Johnson knows this. I've told him he knows this. when he shaved his head, that third season went to a buzz cut. I did it, that's how into it I was.

I thought it was so fucking cool. I'd never seen anything like it and part of it was A, Don is great, it was so cool, but the way that Michael Mann understood the making of the film, the balance of?

cool set ups, really cool shots, really making the most of it, setting the tone that he was able to set and with the music he was the first guy who made really cool. it was almost like a lot of those shows, were almost like music videos in the middle that had these incredible montages and it was just breathtaking to watch him do all that shit. there's that really famous one where they have In the Air Tonight with Phil Collins, that whole sequence with the camera set up on the side of the car. you're watching the wheel and then it's going down the thing and then it's the reflection off the hood and then he goes to that phone booth that's miraculously at the end of a pier, all by itself calls his ex-wife, calls his ex-wife great shit, and you watch that. that was like 1984 man just elevated shit.

he's very into re-watching his movies now.

he's obsessed with internal life. he really believes in it. that's cinematic and interesting enough when I watch Last of the Mohicans or Heat, Last of the Mohicans in particular. they don't have a lot of screen time to really fall in love, but because you can tell they're so filled internally, you totally buy it. he's really into that.

all of his notes are about internal stuff. he's rare in that way. not a lot of directors really talk about internal shit and that he trusts that the audience can kind of read your mind a little bit. if you're really cooking inside, you don't need to say it. they'll lean forward and try to read you.

and is that about staging and the way that he shoots it? that to him in order to kind of reveal, to get into that inner life he's all about. all of his choices are about. there's this thing where he's obsessed with ties. there's a lot of famous stories about him.

someone will say an offhanded comment and I'm like oh, that's a nice tie and he's like what'd you say? and they're like oh, I was just saying that he had a nice tie and he's like okay, we gotta go find another tie and they'll spend two hours finding the right tie. and then you ask him and he's like well, if you're looking at the tie, then you're not looking at the actor's face and I want you to be engrossed in what's going on. he's like the blacks in this scene are right. they need to be 50% darker, because then you can really get into the pupils.

it's all about internal life he wants to see, which I think is that's what makes those movies rewatchable and timeless. there's a lot of respect that people will get it.

he's also got. he's got a Michael Mann three quarter shot, a handheld. that's right behind an actor's ear and it just kind of creeps around a little bit and exposes just one of the eyes and it gets you inside an actor's head or a character's head. he uses that quite a bit. I love that.

I don't know if there's a camera invented yet that would be able to reveal any inner life on Jason. I don't think that would. it's like a fucking, just fucking dead. it's like a dial tone inside. you hear like a wind going through an old outhouse out in the middle of the desert.

that's the sound. I fall asleep, real easy. you talked about. you talked about driving, about Ferraris and stuff. had you ever driven a Ferrari before?

no, no, no, never driven a Ferrari. do you have one now? would you ever get one? if they gave me one, sure, yeah. are you like a motorcycle guy at all?

yeah, I have a couple of motorcycles. you've got children now.

let's get rid of those. did you guys know this? that I had a Ferrari for a few years? is that right?

did somebody fucking buy you one? it's a long story, but I had one. I was gifted a Ferrari, but it was one of those old, the 412. it kind of looks like a coupe. do you remember that car?

at the beginning of Rain Man? Tom Cruise is driving that when he's going out to Palm Springs and he gets the phone call and he's got to turn around with the windmills in behind. it's a beautiful car.

so you sold that Ferrari, the gift to you, and you turned a little profit. I ended up selling it because if you didn't drive it all the time, it would sit there and you would constantly have to repair shit. that's just the way it was. what a relatable story. so you just pocketed.

what did you get? about 150 grand for it? no, because I paid so much a lot of taxes, Adam, it's been such a pleasure. it does seem relatable, though. no, by the way, when does Ferrari come out?

Christmas day? just in time, like a gift from Jesus. yeah, himself, Adam, I could just ask you I'm just fascinated. I'm such a fan of what you've done, and I'm just so happy for you. you do seem like such a genuinely good guy, big talent, crush, like I said.

like Jason said, I wanted to say this before when people run into you, it's not like you're just like some. there's a difference between being a celebrity and being an actor, and you're such an actor, and I mean that as such a compliment. you're such an artist. hate using that term, but it's true to you, that means a lot. you are amazing, man.

so glad that you joined us today. thank you for doing this.

I'll look you up when I get to Brooklyn. he's good, man. he's super busy. you're gonna love it.

thanks, Adam, such a pleasure to meet you, Adam Driver, thanks, buddy, thanks for taking your time. thanks for having me alright, see ya, bye.

wow, right? JB, I knew, you knew him. yeah, I'm surprised, what didn't come up was some sort of tie-in to his last name and the Ferrari movie. who's gonna do that? one of these critics are gonna do it, right?

somebody writing a review or something. Driver really drives this driving movie, something like that? they can go ahead. if they're gonna do it, it'll probably be a little bit sharper, probably something like that. anytime you said that word, something like that.

he's really cool. it's wild to meet him, it's really cool. he's a very, very good dude. yeah, he seems like he's got a very generous spirit. like you said, he's an actor.

he's an actor. yeah, he's an actor. he's so good. he's gonna be with us for a long time. he's gonna be like one of our great actors until we're old and grey.

I don't know, there's something about. I love the fact that I don't feel like he did a good job of getting into it of like this the way that he just kept. he applied to Juilliard when he was 17, but then he went into the military, but then he came back to it. he went to LA and then his car broke down and he fucking went home, but he came back to it. he was not gonna be.

this is what he wanted to do and he knew he had a gift for it. you don't stop until you get it. he's a serious person, but also he's got a great sense of humor. yeah, he's really funny, really, really funny. first of all, I didn't know he was in the Marine Corps and that's why I asked him he did like a TED talk where he talked about it, I saw that I don't follow all the TED talks.

it's really. you're not up in your TED talk. I'm sure he's not the only actor that's been a Marine, but you don't hear about it a lot. there's not a lot of the whole time he was there. that's why I asked him if he was thinking about what's that?

Rob Riggle, that I knew. but yeah, you don't hear about it a lot. so you didn't know. he was in the Marines, and I like what he said about Michael Mann too. you always buy into it and everything that Adam does.

I think every part that he plays, every part that Adam plays, you also buy into it? I was gonna say less sloppy and just easy way out, as if you're late for a bus. I'm gonna say hearing what he said, those were really words to live by. acceptable, we will allow.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Bennett Barbaco, Michael Grant Terry and Rob Armgirf.

If you like Smartless, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.