The Campus Protesters Explain Themselves

It's Friday, May 17th.

My name is Mustafa Yao. I'm 20 years old, and I study at the University of Texas at Austin. I study civil engineering. I'm a third year.

It's a second home to me, but my roots are in the United States.

But we had air conditioning. The bills were paid. I had guitars. My dad bought me guitars, so I was comfortable. But I didn't really have a lot.

I didn't know any Arabs. I knew very few other Arabs. My high school was mostly Hispanic and African-American. It wasn't, weren't? a lot of white kids and no Arabs or anything like that.

I always enjoyed, always more of a community. I felt a lot more tight-knit than the United States, where you just don't have that close-knit of a community as over there.

Lamb, koussa, got the TV going, whatever crazy show they're watching. No, no, no. Dramatic soap opera.

Because the city's small, it's meant for walking. So I'd just walk around and just going around, seeing the city with my cousins, just following them around, hanging out. I would go outside the start of the day, and I wouldn't come back in until I go to bed.

And then the stars are a lot clearer. The cool wind is blowing at night. It's beautiful. 60-some, 70-some degrees. I'll be in a sweater.

Just looking down at the city, looking at the mountains, trying to notice details, trying to see where I walked that day, trying to map out the path and recognizing buildings, that sort of thing. And then the beautiful sound of the Adan. It echoes through when you're up high. It's got that natural reverb, that natural delay, which is always cool.

Breaking news now from the occupied West Bank.

There would be conflicts or the IDF would come in and arrest somebody or something, and it would be throwing rocks and it'd be chaos. And I was too young to comprehend it. And then I saw a raid, an IDF raid up close. And you could go after they left, you go. look at the door that they blew off with a grenade and, like this big metal door mangled and twisted.

As obviously the IDF driving off, people throwing rocks.

So, to answer your question, no, because, like I said, every single day, that's reality for them.

But recently, when I was in high school, more and more illegal settlements in the West Bank and Israel just taking over all the highway systems and travel systems. there. You do see traveling city to city. The car has a yellow license plate. Then it's Israeli settlers.

We're seeing all the billboards and the tanks driving by us and the yellow license plates and the settlements. I remember talking to him about what Israel's end goal is, like. what, in his mind, and the Palestinians, what do we want? Like, what's the ideal situation from us? Practically, practically what, what could happen?

He spoke of it as if I asked him what the weather was. He explained that the cities can't expand. So they want to, again, move us out of Palestinian land into Jordan or into Egypt and have us as refugees. But he talked about how most Palestinians want the West Bank and Gaza. They want that two state solution and not be annexed by Israel like they are now.

And it's scary to think about, because obviously, I mean, that's the other half of my family. And, you know, that's why I'm so invested in it here, because it matters so much.

After October 7th, there was some increased Palestinian demonization, or, I guess, racism, if you want to call it. There were a couple of things in West Campus. Somebody, like a Muslim guy, got stabbed by, it wasn't a Jewish guy, it was just a white guy. And then there was a Palestinian Solidarity Committee meeting. And there were two IDF soldiers that infiltrated the campus building and, like, harassed the people outside of the meeting.

I'm not doing anything. Don't be violent. I'm just saying you are fucking terrorists. No violence. Showing your true colors.

No, no, no, no violence. This is your fucking terrorist, that you're a fucking terrorist. No violence.

What is fucking Palestine? It doesn't even exist. You don't even know the history of Palestine.

So I participated in the protests through downtown Austin. I saw the stuff on it for social media or on social media. So I walk from campus to the Capitol. And then I come into the Capitol, whatever part of the Capitol lawn it was, just see this huge crowd. Wow.

Just the giant mass of people taking up the entire road. And then holding signs, chanting people with their kids. And then you look up at the parking garages and buildings, you got people waving Palestinian flags. I've never seen anything like that in America before.

And to see it, it's totally different than what you can imagine. It's like I show you a picture of the beach and you're like, yeah, it's going to be nice. And then you go there and then you see the beach. You're not surprised, it's pretty. But, you know, it still means something when you actually go see it.

That was before campus protests began. But within the Palestinian Solidarity Committee, we held more events, more teaching events. And then a march to the tower with more chanting. And that was a few hundred people. Students, all students.

I remember talking to it with my Arab friends, how we were surprised that it wasn't just Arabs and it wasn't just Muslims at the protest. It was like regular students. we saw, you know, regular white guys that could have been in a frat or they got on their coats and their backpacks. And they just, they don't look like they're part of any group. that would have already been conscious of the situation.

And it was very surprising to see that. See that many people take the time out of their day for it to be that important to them. Like it is important to me. It's definitely meaningful.

Kind of one of the reasons that I wasn't as present in the Arab communities, kind of like how I described back in Nablus, the Israeli occupation is just reality. But to have this reaction, it felt like this cause is not hopeless.

So it'll be people holding Israeli flags and their intention there is to show their support for Israel and kind of be Israel's voice in this situation. You can go up there and talk to them and that sort of thing.

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And that's something that people misunderstand about Jews is that we're not just a religion, we are a people, and we've always considered ourselves to be a people, right? The first covenant is with Abraham, I'll make you a great nation.

I'm studying Middle East history and Arabic language. I also studied Hebrew my whole life, and I feel like, as somebody who's studying the Middle East and wants to, for my life, participate in Middle East diplomacy and conversations about the future of the Middle East, it was necessary for me to both learn the history from new perspectives and learn Arabic language.

And that was very good for my Jewish religious literacy.

It's like the saddest day of the year. And so one of the things you're not allowed to do is, you know, watch a comedy or do things like for pleasure. Can't watch The Office on Tisha B'Av as much as I love The Office. So when I was younger, what that meant was watching movies about the Holocaust. And I remember, in like sixth grade, probably, I watched for the first time The Boy in the Striped Pajamas.

and the German general tries to get there in time, to stop it and doesn't get there in time.

And I was just bawling at the end when you see his face through the window, the tiny little window of the gas chamber. And the German kid, who, by the way, tragically dies as well because he followed his Jewish friend, because he didn't understand the difference, because he just saw him as a human being. And my God, did that stick with me and still has stuck with me in terms of just understanding how brutal and inhumane the Holocaust was.

I read Rashid Khalidi's Palestinian Identity. I also read Dershowitz's book called The Case for Israel and Yossi Klein-Halevi's Letters to My Palestinian Neighbor and Daniel Gortys' Israel. Kind of foundational text on both sides of this. And I would come to the dinner table and be like, all right, well, what the heck happened in 1948? You know, whose fault was it that many Palestinians had to leave?

And at the end of the day, it is definitely clear that it's complicated.

So I came to Columbia in search of an academically serious environment with peers from different backgrounds who, because of our different backgrounds, we might learn so much from each other. But what I'm feeling right now is some of these people don't believe that I have a right to be at that table.

What the hell are you talking about? You're planning a rally on October 12th. Like, we were literally still bagging bodies in the South, Israelis who were massacred.

To me, that was like the most inhumane, unsensitive, really just morally reprehensible thing that I had ever seen in my entire life. And it really, really pissed me off.

And as a Jewish community, there was a conversation. What do we do about this?

And then got into a big circle and just sang songs of peace and unity and perseverance.

It was really a moment for community, and it was also so disheartening to see our peers celebrating October 7th. That was really, you know, that was a wake-up call to the fact that we have.

We spoke a lot about narrative and the importance of narrative to history. And I would stress the importance of the Jewish story and be open to hearing, obviously, the Palestinian side.

When the protests on Columbia's campus started, we were already hearing, globalize the Intifada.

Now, as somebody who knows the Jewish story and the Israeli story, I know what Intifada is. It means violence against Jews. The second Intifada happened between 2000 and 2005.. Over a thousand Jews were killed, thousands were injured, and it was basically a series of bus bombings, suicide bombings, stabbings, shootings, perpetrated, perpetuated, by Palestinian terrorists. So that's what I hear when I hear Intifada.

It is a call for violence against Jews everywhere, very, very simply. So I raised that concern and I said, please shut it down, because this is a threat against Jews and it's going to normalize violence against Jews. And I was told no, the Arabic root of Intifada is Nafada, which means shaking things up. And I said, well, you can't use etymological roots to reverse what the meaning has become. And I was told, well, we're not calling for violence.

And I would say, well, what are you calling for? And there was never a concrete answer. We've had this conversation probably 10 times over lunch, in passing. We're not going to agree. It is a call for violence against Jews.

There is no way that any other minority could get his claims of discrimination denied by the use of an etymological root. Everyone who has to go through DEI training is taught that a microaggression is something that you say, but you didn't mean to be racist, but maybe might come off as offensive. And we're taught that the impact of your words matters more than your intent when you say it.

Now, I'm saying, well, here's the impact of your words on me. Here's how I experience them as a Jew, as a minority. And I'm being told, no, no, no. The intent of the speaker matters more than the impact on you. What kind of double standard is that?

I don't know who they are. I don't know who they are, but I do know that they do not know the Jewish story. They just don't know it. They are signing statements and leading protests that are celebrating the murder of Israelis and of Jews.

How, in good conscience, as a Jew, could you possibly do that?

But I know it's not true. I know that it is not an accurate portrayal of me or my feelings, but that it is an accurate portrayal of other people's fear and desire for safety. I also want my people to be safe, but my desire for safety is not built on the idea that it has to come at someone else's expense.

My name is Jasmine Jolly. I'm 25.. I'm a student at Cal Poly Humboldt. I'm a student of the Child Development Department, and I am at home in Arcata, California. I grew up in Sonoma County.

I'm of Ashkenazi descent on my mom's side. My dad's a high school teacher, and my mom ran a daycare for years, and my parents were both activists. They took us to anti-war protests. Like, when Bush attacked Iraq,

they had us at protests, and my mom made us all shirts. Like, I think mine said war is bad for toddlers. My sister said war is bad for babies. Hers said war is bad for moms. My dad said war is bad for dads.

and, just, like, historically, for me, holding on to that title of Jewish and being able to pass it on to my children one day is really, really important. So, yeah, like, I'm raising Jewish babies, one day, for sure. But I have been... I've been in a lot of spaces where I didn't feel Jewish enough,

and I've also been told a lot throughout my life that I don't look Jewish. I look like the Irish, English, Scottish side of my family. So yeah, like, I don't, in a lot of ways, fit Jewish stereotypes,

and I've never been targeted because of it. And that, at least, is, like, I'm sure, partially because of how I look.

And then, two, three years ago, I had been giving a lot of consideration to the idea of birthright. Birthright trip is a free trip that anyone who can prove Jewish ancestry is given to Israel. It's seen as a birthright of Jewish people. And then, in my mid-late teenage years, I had read about people walking off of their birthright trip in protest, and that sort of sparked, like, a bit of a deeper dive beyond the, honestly, very little that I knew about the country previously.

And I started reading about that, and I started reading about settler violence in the West Bank. And I looked at, like, historical maps and historical treaties, and I was like, there's things here that I wasn't, like, told, that people didn't tell me.

And that was when the severity sunk in.

I come from a people who are historically expelled and I felt like I was watching Israel do what was done to my family. And that was the end of any way I could support that country for me. I felt like I was watching them enact a vengeance out of fear. And I know exactly where that fear of like exile and extermination comes from in Jewish people, because I feel it for my family.

when they had to leave Eastern Europe, or for the few who went to Western Europe instead of the US when they had to leave France and when they died.

And the lesson I learned I feel like from my history is that I have a voice that is powerful. I feel like my Jewish family especially teaches me to ask questions, and that is what I am trying to do.

So I thought that if there was any way.

that my voice could influence an end to violence, I would try to make it loud.

So we had a couple of vigils for people who have died in Gaza, where we read testimonies of their stories or some of their words. That was when I got more involved with Humble for Palestine up here. And eventually we shifted to being at the Eureka Courthouse on Fridays, and we have been there every Friday ever since.

I will not stand in the same group as a swastika. I like adamantly refuse. I cannot do that. I will not stand here with any Nazi symbolism. This is going to bring more violence and vitriol aimed in our direction.

We already get coffee cups thrown at us. We already get spit at and yelled at. And in order to keep the people that we are inviting to these protests safe, we knew that that was not the time and place for it.

I read Muslim takes on the word. I read Miriam Webster.

And.

I realized the similarity in that call of there is only one solution Intifada revolution. I realized the similarity to if we don't get no justice, they don't get no peace, no justice, no peace. When people are occupied, resistance is justified. And yes, it is. It is still a word that means these like specific actions that were taken against Israel and a lot of them harmed civilians.

And that is sad. But it is also a word that inspires people. It is also a word that makes people feel like they might be capable of change.

And, and yeah, I will use it thoughtfully.

I feel like. I feel like there's people who feel like Zionism is Judaism, you know, or that to be Jewish, you must be Zionist. But there's nothing that has come across to me as anti-Semitic. if you are able to pause.

and remember that Israel is not Jewish people and Zionism is not Jewish people.

I have definitely felt nervous about expressing some of my views in front of family. My grandfather and I, this was a couple months ago now, we were exchanging, like, 1,500, 2,000 word emails, asking each other questions about our opinions. He was a history professor. This is my Jewish grandfather. He was raised labor Zionist.

So I was asking about how he was raised and the ideologies that he was raised with.

he.

he made a really good point. And if you have the time, I would like to try to find this line that he said and read it to you.

Most importantly, the existence of Israel has never really been under threat, nor have the most fundamental conditions of existence been an issue for Jews. Those things are not a part of your worldview, as they are mine and my generation and, to a lesser extent, your parents. I do not imagine you can fathom the importance of Israel in the hearts of people of my generation, nor should you. I would not ask it. That would be an unfair burden.

That said, here are the things which I believe we might both agree on, or, at the very least, productively argue about.

I theoretically understand why Israel was created, why this idea of a Jewish state was considered a good idea for the safety of Jewish people right after a genocide. But emotionally, like he said, I have been safe. I have not been afraid for Jewish people's safety, the way that I think people in other generations may have.

So that comment, I do not imagine you could fathom the importance of Israel in the hearts of people of my generation, nor should you. I would not ask it. It would be an unfair burden.

Really just hit my heart in a nice way in this, like, his understanding that I will have my own perspective and he will have his own that lead us both towards a place to like understanding each other better.

Here's what else you should know today. On Thursday, the Supreme Court rejected a challenge to the way that the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau is funded. A decision that protects the agency from conservatives seeking to undermine it. In a seven to two ruling, the justices found that the way that Congress chose to finance the Bureau is constitutional. Had the court ruled otherwise, it may have cast doubt on every regulation and action taken by the watchdog agency since it was created 13 years ago under former President Barack Obama.

And during a second day of cross-examination, lawyers for Donald Trump sought to portray his former fixer, Michael Cohen, as a serial liar who constantly changes his story. Their goal was to undermine the credibility of Cohen's testimony so far, which is central to the prosecution's case in the hush money trial. In particular, defense lawyers seized on Cohen's claim in a different court case that he had lied under oath. Their suggestion is that Cohen might be willing to lie under oath again during this trial.

Also, a reminder to catch the interview tomorrow, right here where you get The Daily. This week, on the show, David Marchese talks with scientist Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson about why she thinks we can't give in to climate doom, even if we feel it.

That's it for The Daily. I'm Sabrina Tavernisi. See you on Monday.

And Opus sets new intelligence industry benchmarks. Learn more at anthropic.com slash clod.