#2100 - Cameron Hanes & Steven Rinella

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Thanks for having me out, man.

My pleasure. Cam, explain that ridiculous thing around your neck.

What are you talking about?

Oh, this?

That thing.

Oh, I know. Where am I? What camera am I? Right there. Yeah.

Oh, reclaimed?

Reclaimed, yeah.

Oh, okay.

So they're not ruining the planet to get it. This is like reclaimed gold, but it's solid. And then there's six carats of rubies on there and black diamonds, so.

So the rubies, if people can't see it...

This is a ridiculous thing. you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah, okay. That was it.

Yeah. So the rubies...

That's a lot of pawn shop wedding rings laid up on there, old man.

I know, a lot of failed marriages there. Failed dreams. This, yeah, this is probably...

That's where that came from. Pretty sure.

Like 50 failed marriages right here.

And the rubies look like blood. So what they did was, it's pretty fucking dope. They made the rubies, if you could hold it up for the camera so people could see it. The rubies look like it's dipped in blood.

There's black diamonds too.

Oh, nice. That's a lot, dude. You're balling out of control, son.

I know, I know. It's crazy. So the last, I had that one from Scooby, the CH. He made me, I've never worn it since, but I wore it here. And the last time I had, my son had an ivory from a bull I killed in Arizona.

Cody Garbrandt gave me one that has my dog's face. on one side. Yes, I saw that. And the other side, it has the JRE logo. I'm like, either.

Carved into an ivory?

No, no, no, it's solid gold.

Oh, solid gold. I was like, that's some intricate carving.

Yeah.

It's so ridiculous.

Hey. No, there's no limit now, obviously.

Do you got any jewelry, Manila?

Come on, Steve.

Uh-uh, no. Nothing? Uh-uh. What? No tattoos, no jewelry, man.

Do you have a rubber wedding ring? Do you wear one of those?

Well, I went from regular to silicon to nothing. Yeah? I don't wear one anymore. My wife doesn't wear one very often. Oh, yeah?

I'd yell at my wife. Yeah, but- Where the fuck are you going?

Well, I know, but- Put that leash on. It's not like anyone comes and scams on me. now, you know? Right. I just smell like a married dude.

I get it. I don't know. I just always, I don't mind wearing it. And I love these silicon ones. These are great.

I had a couple accidents with snagging it and then arced it on a battery, the metal one. Yeah. And then I got on this thing and people were sending us all these pictures, too, of what they call degloving.

Sheathing.

Yeah, where you pull it off. Man, we got just people sending horrible pictures, like guys catching them on a ladder rack on a truck and then like jumping down.

Endless.

And that cured me forever, that metal one. Yeah, the metal one-, I kept the metal one in a little baggie.

I will wear the metal one if I go to dinner with my wife.

Oh, really?

Or if I'm doing the UFC, I'll wear the metal one if I have a nice watch on. But I never wear it other than that.

Oh, that's cute that you put it on at dinner. I'm going to do that sometime. We do date nights. You put your ring on. Yeah.

Well, I always wear my rubber ring, the silicone ring, but the metal one, I'll put it on when we're going out. That's a nice one.

Dude, I'm going to take that little tip, man.

It's a good tip. It's a good tip for date night.

I had to use mine for this.

Your wife's like, where's your wedding ring?

Wow, you know that necklace I got? I still have it.

It's just assumed its final form.

I wear it all the time. I'm wearing it right now.

My buddy in Alaska, his wife kept all of her jewelry in this little box in her house, burnt down, and he later went and found all that stuff. It melted into a blob. So, she took that blob and took it to a jeweler and had that blob turned into a big old necklace. So, it's just like this amorphous glob.

Oh, the glob, with no change to it?

This amorphous glob of gold that she'll put on now and then. It was like all of her stuff in this little pile that melted together.

That must have been a fucking hell of a fire.

Oh, yeah. Oh, no, it was for sure. She didn't wear it, wear it, but she would get it out and be like, oh, here's all my.

little lumps.

Here's all my stuff.

Yeah, the jewelry thing is a weird thing. One of the things we're going to do for Protect Our Parks, we've been talking about doing this, is get grills like the rappers wear. Oh, yeah. We're all going to wear grills during the podcast, so we're going to get fitted with like diamond grills. They take like a little diamond dust and you smile like Paul Wall and you have a full mouth full of diamonds.

I'm like, I think it'd look badass. That's my next move.

Just fangs.

I have a tooth that got knocked out and it's like one of those calves. And one time we were drinking and I, when I was younger, we were drinking and I was trying to open a, there used to be that company that made tequila that had like a sombrero for a lid. And I was opening one of these bottles and broke that fake tooth off. And all night I'm going on about how I'm getting a gold, because it's gone, you know? And all night I'm like making a plan, talking all this.

So you opened it up with your tooth?

Yeah. Broke that tooth and then, like, got fired up about getting a gold one. And no, never did it. That'd been the closest thing I had toward jewelry, my gold tooth, but chickened out.

That would look sick.

Yeah. I've thought about a gold tooth for brief moments, generally while drinking. Getting one of them.

They have those, they just put a little diamond on it now. Yeah.

My old man told me that during the war, guys would carry around dental picks and he fought World War II. He said during the war, they would carry it around and they would go and get all the, they would get the gold out of German's teeth and save it up in a bag. And there were certain guys who were just into it. I remember as a kid, I asked him like, Hey, would they ever get it from an American? And he goes, that'd be a good way to get shot.

Yeah. Very macabre. People used to dig up graves to do that, right? Yeah.

Well, the original fillings, the silver ones, were those lead?

Don't know.

Because they used to have fillings that were metal. And I remember people were saying, Hey, those are fucking terrible for you. They figured it out years later.

It's like living your whole life with a fish and stinker in your mouth, man.

Have you seen, you saw Shane Gillis last night. Yeah. How funny is that, dude?

He's hilarious. He's so funny.

He had a bit about George Washington. And it's one of the funniest bits I've ever seen in my life. And, George, it's a whole bit about going to the George Washington Museum because he's a real history buff. But one of the things was George Washington's teeth. Like George Washington's teeth were set in lead.

Horses, donkeys, cows.

Just fucking. You have to see the bit. It's very funny. Folklore notwithstanding, Washington's false teeth were not wooden. He obtained them instead from horses, donkeys, cows, and human beings.

That's pretty intense.

Pretty intense.

Having another dude's teeth in your mouth too, is wild. I had a cadaver bone in my jaw for a while. And you'd get little pieces of it. And you're always spitting out little pieces of some guy. Whoa.

You had it for a while? They took it out?

Well, no. It just heals up.

Oh.

So they drill a hole in there. And they fill it full of cadaver bone.

Whoa.

And I asked who the dude was. They can't figure out who he was. I have not. You're like all over your office or whatever. You're like some little chunk of a guy.

My right knee is a cadaver ACL tendon. But it's not anymore. What happens is your body proliferates it. Yeah. So it just acts as a scaffolding.

They ever give you info about the person?

No. No. I just don't. Get me a Viking. Get me some fucking gigantic dude who's been swinging a battle axe his whole life.

Like peeling string cheese.

Yeah, exactly. And then they take a chunk of your kneecap and a chunk of your shin. So they pull that out. And then they open you up like a fish. And then they screw it in on the top and screw it in the bottom.

Hmm. Well.

Both of them are fine now. But if I had to tell people if they're going to get the operation, get the fucking cadaver. Get that dead dude.

That's risky. Now, what if you get a vegan? that's a vaccinated cadaver?

Like flimsy string cheese. Like when your bowstring is getting frayed. You're like, damn, should I replace this? Like when your D-loop.

It's fucking vegan. Scrape me on this ligament.

Yeah. Poor vegans, man. You want to talk about people that have been sold a bill of goods.

Not very durable, are they?

It's not just that. It's like. there's so much propaganda that that is good for you. And there's so much evidence that it's not. And this mindset that these fucking people have where they're, just like they believe the China study.

I was trying to explain correlation, causation, all that to my kid. the other night. I was telling him about stuff like this, like education levels and divorce rates, right? I'm like, no one's going to untangle what it is. But you can look at these things and see that there's something going on, but no one knows exactly what, right?

Yeah.

So, with this stuff like that, it's like, so. did you eat a lot of meat? Uh-huh. Yeah. It's like, okay, well, yeah.

It's not even what form. It's. what else are you eating? They're only looking for red meat. So they're asking you, in these studies, like, how many days a week do you eat red meat?

Well, what I used to do is go to McDonald's. So, yeah, I had red meat because of the burger, two plain hamburgers, large fry, apple pie,

Just think about all this bullshit.

And they're like, do you eat a lot of meat? Yeah.

Blame the meat. Right. It was like, look, to your point, look at all that other shit, sugar and carbs.

Exactly.

That oil and that meal right there would probably kill you. Yeah. And some people, it's the same people going through McDonald's or Burger King or Wendy's every single day getting their go-to. Yeah, so those are the people that you're asking about, do you eat red meat? Yeah.

I found that people also have, I was talking to this the other day with my buddy Seth, where people also have a tendency to find, there's so much conflicting dietary information that people also will find something aligns with their aesthetic.

Yeah.

Right. Or that aligns with their political sensibility. Meaning someone, if your general tendency is to be opposed to meat production, certain agricultural practices, and you see an article where it says high meat diet correlates with cancer, they're going to read that with great enthusiasm. Yes.

Yeah, confirmation bias.

Because they're going to be like, oh, this lines up with a bunch of shit. I already think. Yeah, exactly. And so when we were talking about this, I was sort of teasing out, I like to have a garden. I like to hunt.

Yeah, but it just makes logical sense.

Yeah, it does, for sure.

You understand the building blocks of human beings and what's necessary to promote. All the things that you need that only come from animal tissue, B12, collagen. There's so much stuff that you can get from meat that you're just not going to get from anywhere else. So whenever I see an athlete that starts going on a vegan diet, I look at it the same way as like a snake handler. Like, okay, let's see how this plays out.

Plays out the same every time.

It's like I have a friend and he was, like, my girlfriend's, going to let me do threesomes. The moment I hear things like that, I have the exact same feeling as like someone coming up to me saying, hey, man, I started making my own bombs.

I know a guy that went through something like what you're talking about. I remember when he broke it out for me about some deal he had arrived at in his marriage.

It looks good on paper.

You're like, I can't fucking, never seen an example once of it working.

I can't tell you how I know, but I can just tell you that this is not a good idea.

It never worked. Yeah.

I mean, if you just sketch it out right here, it might look all right. Yeah.

She's going to kill you in your sleep, bro. This is not going to work. This is real.

God. Get out now.

Yeah. But, you know, the vegan diet thing, it's just, it's so unfortunate that people have been. It's like, it's such a, I get how you could come to this sort of idea where if you just eat vegetables, then you're not as responsible for killing. But one of the real problems is, well, first of all, there's a real problem of farming, you know, especially industrial monocrop agriculture. God damn, they kill a lot of things to get that crop out.

I've read that about willows. I never checked to see how valid it is, but that a willow will send root tendrils in the direction of the sound of running water.

That makes sense.

I know, it's cool. Sorry, I counted me to step over you there.

Oh, no, no, I was just saying, so it's sound, and also you said, before you said it was downwind.

Yeah, downwind too.

So it's scent and sound.

It's a bunch of things that they don't understand because they don't have noses. They don't have ears. How does the sound of caterpillars eating leaves change the chemical structure of these plants? How are they knowing, okay, time to let loose the poison. How are they getting it?

I can see where you're going with this is that sometime down the road, there's going to be some tough decisions for people who are looking for general well, like not wanting to harm creatures. And when you have to face the fact that here's this like semi sentient communicative plant.

that you're yanking out of the ground. It just can't move quick. And it does move. And if you watch high speed images of plants growing, you know, and moving with the breeze, you're like, Oh, it's just a different kind of movement. Like it's, it's clearly growing.

Yeah.

Yeah. I'll, uh, like, you know, I'll hunt all manner of stuff. And I used to work as a tree surgeon and with fell trees, but at our place in Southeast Alaska, which is in the, uh, coastal rain forest. And we're in an area of old growth where our stuff's at. Um, I'm not like in no way condemning people to do, I would not be able to put a chainsaw in one of those trees.

Yeah.

So people, you know, you find these, you find these lines.

Well, there's also the renewable resource of bears. You know, if you're going to kill a bear and eat a bear that bears nine years old, nine years is not that big a deal.

Yeah. Ain't 400.. Yeah.

I mean, there was a, I was in Scotland recently and they, they had this tree, like. this is the oldest tree that, that, you know, is in Europe. And I was like, how old is this fucking tree? And they're like, it's like a 5,000 year old tree. I'm like, how is that possible?

Yeah. 5,000.. A huge tree.

Google says 2,000 to 3,000 years old. Okay. So the sign says 3,000.. Well, back when they made that sign, what kind of fucking carbon dating did they have, you know?

Some dude said, man, that tree must be 5,000 years old. Put that on the sign.

Look at the image of it. That's what it looked like. See the image of it to the right, Jamie?

Yeah, fuck that ugly tree.

That tree looks dope. It looks dope.

That's not the tree Steve was talking about.

I think they look cool.

No, that tree looks old. That tree looks like a gnarly old man.

Yeah, like some old dude. I'll tell you what it was like when we rode horses everywhere.

Hey, so, Steve, I was thinking, like, so what's the difference between a person who you said you wouldn't like to cut that tree, or you wouldn't?

But, like I said, I don't say that to cast judgment on a logger, that does. I'm just saying, like, I personally.

No, I understand that. But then there's some people who take that to, I'm just trying to, I don't know, reason with myself. Because around here we've had people chain themselves to trees. Sure. You know what I mean?

No, because the passion's not that. Right. The passion's there, but it's not that deep. Right.

Yeah, it's just, it's weird thinking about, I understand what you're saying. I totally get that. I would probably, I think, I've never cut down a tree. I've never been a tree surgeon. But I would probably feel the same about maybe a 400 or 500-year-old tree.

I might be like, you know, man, Cam, you cut it down.

When I was in Northern California.

I don't want to have to deal with any repercussions.

We were in the redwood forest and there's a tree that you drive a car through.

Yeah.

You cut a hole in the tree. And I was like, why did they do that? But it was like 1920 or something when they did it.

Yeah, they didn't care about anything.

They didn't give a fuck. Yeah. But when you're around those trees, they're so big. It's so crazy how wide they are. And when they're gone, that's it.

Yeah. It's a tough one, man. It's tough on looking at those trees, but it does seem like, uh, you know, some of those trees you look at, it's like, you're looking at, it almost seems like some approximation of God, you know, and look at some of those old trees, man. Just astounding.

Yeah.

Yeah. We, that's in Oregon. That was a big thing because we had the spotted owls in late eighties, basically. And spotted owls lived in old growth. So we had the, the, whatever timber activists or whoever those people are.

Spiking trees. Yeah.

And, or living in them. They'd like, well, we live here or we chain ourselves to them, but they were up there and so the loggers would get there to cut, you know, do their cut. And there's people living in the trees. Yeah.

That one gal spent, her name was like, Joe's, probably had her on the show.

I would have her on the show. It was like Butterfly or something, right?

Yeah.

But, I mean, I guess my point is it's like, you got people, whatever their passions are, they will go to the ends, you know, like we defend hunting till the end. Right. That's our passion. That's what we love. But yeah, it's like all these different factions of people, that, man, you'd have a hard time saying you're wrong and believing that, because that's just what they believe.

You know, the one thing that I never really thought of until I started hunting was the aspect, the hunting that's, it's an, it's a part of it that it's almost indisputable when you experience it. Like, when you first experience it, when you first start eating an animal that you, like. the first time you ever took me hunting when we were in Montana. And I remember when I was eating that mule deer and we're sitting over the fire and I was like, this is so different than any meal I've ever had in my life. It's so different.

What year was that?

I don't remember that specific conversation. That was 12 years ago. Oh, was it really? I was going to say 10 years ago.

2012..

Okay. And then you bow hunted in 2014.. Yes. Okay. So, so did you kill?

I have two people in this room that introduced me to hunting, and that's our Montana mule deer right there. That's him. That's him. That's the one we lost.

Someone lost the nose bones.

Oh, the ones out there? Yeah.

Well, he's missing his too. Yeah. You need to shake Jamie down. He might have a pocket full of those nose bones.

I think they, I think they, they boil it out too long. I think.

Is that what it is?

Yeah. Yeah. I always glue them back in. But anyways, sorry.

But that guy is very special to me. That guy is very special to me.

First kill.

And I remember when we were eating him over the fire, I was resorting my schedule. I was like, okay, how many times a year can I hunt now? Okay. How long is it going to take to eat a deer?

After the first time.

Right away. Eating it over the fire. Like right away. I was like, oh, I'm doing this forever. This is what I do now.

I've taken quite a number of people on their first hunting trips. I've never had, I mean probably dozens, maybe dozens. Either way, I've never had any of them regret it. Like no one's ever said, I wish I hadn't done that. But I would say the majority, definitely a good strong majority did not pursue it.

Well, it's difficult. It's difficult. You know, and that's the thing I think that is the impediment. for a lot of people. It's like time consuming.

I'm going through that with my kid right now. I'm going through that with my kid where my older kid's very interested in bow hunting, but it's just, I'm like, man, you have to appreciate the level of discipline, dude, that you got to shoot, right? Like I'm perpetually rusty. Like you can't be like me. And I actually pulled the plug on him this year where I said, if you shoot every day, like he'd been shooting throughout the summer.

It's unfortunate, but I think, you know, there's no way to teach someone that. There's no way to really like, get it into their head how hard it is. Unless they're in the field and they're drawing on an animal. And then they realize like, unless, there's some ways to mitigate that. Like, you've had Joel Turner on, which you have, you've had him on, right?

No, I'd like to, but never.

Oh, I got to connect you. Do you have his number?

No, but I'm familiar with that. He's been recommended by many people, and guys I work with are familiar, but I haven't had him on.

He's absolutely got it.

And you've recommended him to me. Yes.

There's a thing that happens when you're in a high-pressure situation that I recognize from martial arts, from a lot of other things, where you do not have full control of your faculties. And your body is operating on anxiety and adrenaline. And when it's completely unique, like a bow-hunting thing, where you have hours and hours, and hours and hours and hours of preparation and thinking about it for seconds of action. And it boils down to this one movement, where you're like, yikes. If you don't have a strategy for managing your mental state while that's happening, the odds of you flinching or moving or doing something stupid are really, really, really high.

Struggled with himself.

He was always choking.

Yeah.

And then, when he became a SWAT instructor, he's on a SWAT team. So he was telling me this one story where he had to shoot this guy that was holding a young girl hostage. And I think it was with a weapon. I forget. A knife or something.

Yeah. I get it. Like. the final thought you have is that you're going to swing the bat.

Yeah.

I don't know if a professional, I don't know if a friend of mine, is a real homerun hitter. I don't know if he would agree. But in my mind, yeah. It's like you've decided to swing and everything else is just nothing.

Well, you're not going to stop it in the middle of the swing.

Yeah, you're not thinking about, oh, I'm going to go a little higher,

a little lower, right? Yeah. It's like punching. Punching, when you're fighting, punching comes, it's an automatic movement. Like you slide back and you don't even realize what's happening.

Dude, I've been there.

Yeah, everybody has. But there's a way to mitigate that with this. So it's not just the practice. The practice is great. You have to practice.

I just know, if I keep the pin there, the arrow's going to hit. good. What happens is people drop their bow arm a lot. I mean, that's what happens a lot. It's that drop that bow arm, they hit too low.

Oh, you're telling yourself, be conscious of keeping the pin on it through the shot.

Yeah. Not moving. Because the moving thing is like, I hope I hit it.

I hope I hit it.

Things go left, right, fucking three, four feet. You're like, how?

You know, where people realize that they have a problem? Is after they make a shitty shot. And they're just like, why didn't I practice more? Why didn't I listen to Joel or Joe or whoever? Because then it's real.

That's an interesting thing between in talking to people that blow a shot with a rifle and talking to people that blow a shot with a bow. People will blow a shot with a rifle and they'll assure you they did everything right.

Guns on.

No one blows a shot with a bow and comes away saying, I don't know what happened. I did everything right. Because you fall into, like you're saying, you fall into this despair and guilt and you're trying to review in your head. I've accidentally landed on a thing. It's not fail safe, but somehow when you say keep the pin on them, I've landed on this thing like, remember your elbow, remember your elbow.

The elbow?

If you do the part and then that elbow goes up and then everything else sort of like takes care of itself, you know. And if I take a shot, I might review in my mind, like, I never did that thing. I never did the elbow deal. Yeah. Which drives all the other actions.

There's something about staying in a conscious state and being able to maintain your composure during that high pressure situation. Maintaining a conscious state where you're talking yourself through it and not just being a reptile.

People black out.

They black out. They really do.

They don't know what to do.

I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened.

I think you use it up. I felt that, if anything,

Experience for sure.

I'd be curious if some dude started, like if some dude at 60 years old, you know,

Depends on who they are.

Or is there something that's like their brain's already chilled out?

I think there's a part of your brain that, like, there's a part of your brain that Andrew Huberman talks about. I forget what the exact section is. Yeah, that when you force yourself to do things you don't want to do, when you force yourself to get up in the morning and run in the cold and get in the cold plunge and all these different, it literally grows larger. This part of your brain that is able to do things that are uncomfortable, that you don't want to do, actually grows larger. And it seems to be that that's a muscle, just like every other muscle.

You know, that's kind of similar to how people feel bow hunting elk for the first time. I mean, that bull's coming in. Yeah. They lost. Yeah.

Brr!

When you're there,

and they're like 30 yards doing that, the sound is so nuts. Like, if you're not a person that's ever been around elk calling, when they do it, when they bugle, it sounds like Lord of the Rings, man. Yeah.

It's such a crazy sound.

It's so crazy.

It can be intimidating if you're not ready for it.

There's a thing Derek Wolfe told me when he was talking about the stress and competitive stress. He told me a thing that had never occurred to me before. He talked about getting in the ring to fight Mike Tyson or whatever.

Yeah.

Picture. you're an incoming player, and you're real young, and all of a sudden you're like, hold on, I'm supposed to go tackle Tom Brady. Yeah. Who, I've been watching. Right.

There's the goat.

You've got to sort of put that out of your head. You're like, hey, tight, let me get his interview, let me get his autograph, then I'll come back, and then I'll tackle him.

Yeah. I mean, the goat. You've heard how he's the best to ever do it, and then all of a sudden, it's almost like, I'm a big fan, I'd like to meet you. Sorry for having to do this.

But isn't that also the case with bow hunters, where you've been hunting your whole life, hoping to see a 200-inch buck, and then one day, you're in the mountains and this mule deer steps out, you're like, oh, this is it. You're imagining, taking the photo, smiling on Instagram, you're imagining, you see this wide mule deer buck, this is crazy, this is a real one, I can make this happen. You're like,

Clay Newcomb just did a bear grease episode about a guy, a poacher, and he interviews the guy at length, and this guy played softball on an army base. They had an athletic complex. And a couple times, he sees this giant buck, and the people were aware of this giant buck, and he was trying to figure out if it was possible to kill it, as he calls it, kill it right or kill it legal.

So was he in the wrong unit?

He was on a military base where you can't hunt.

Oh, wow.

And not only losing your mind as you're drawn back, he lost his mind in the whole thing, getting his bow out of his thing and kills the buck. And then, the minute he kills it, it occurs to him what he's done.

So what did he do?

It's two episodes about just horrible. I mean, you got to walk a real fine line. I mean, he did like, as he admits, you know, I mean, he did a criminal act, and it's not like sympathetic of the criminal act, but it winds up being a story of the unraveling of someone's life about just a mistake. But being that sort of lust for that animal.

Right. I guess we should be thankful that Derek Wolf never saw Tom Brady out of pizza then.

I got him,

I got him.

Imagine that, he's in line in front of you at Burger King, he'd just fuckin' go for it.

I lost my mind.

It was Tom Brady. I just fuckin',

I don't know, I've just been programmed to tackle him. Yeah.

No, but that, I think I was thinking back to on, you said when you're not ready for it. My first two year, my first year bow hunting, my first year rifle hunting, I was 15 when I was rifle hunting. We did this drive, we used to do drives, right?

Oh, hell yeah. Not really hitting pans. I'll talk drives with you all night.

not really hitting pans, but not far from it. So you send the guys, and then put the, whoever, the shooters, on the stand.

Mark, could I ask you real quick? Did you call them? What were the names you used? We debate this all the time. What?

Yep, that was it. Okay, you used pushers and sitters.

It's very regional.

Or on the stand. Oh, on the stand? Yeah, you're on the stand, and then we're pushing to you.

Okay,

yeah. But, so I was there, had this, let's see, 300 Savage, just old gun, but 15 years old, doing the push. Okay, go here. I didn't even know if I was in the right spot. I'm just like, God, I'm by myself.

shot,

no clue.

I don't know. I never, probably never saw it in the scope. It was like, probably, it seemed like from me to you. And I was just like, had no idea what happened. Was I prepared to kill that buck?

But that's where I think Joel Turner comes into play.

because I don't know if he could have helped me. I don't know if he could have helped me. At that time,

he'd have had to be like, give me that bow.

Yeah. It probably wouldn't. You probably weren't totally ready for that at that moment. But if you have a certain level of proficiency and a certain amount of experience in mitigating high pressure situations, then I think you could get through it.

Because I've been teaching a lot of people to shoot a bow for the first time on the Lifter and Shoot show that I do. Joel Turner isn't going to tell them anything. No. I mean, it's like there's so many basics you have to get before that. Oh yeah.

It was so attractive to me when I first started shooting a bow. I was like, God, there are so many. You get lost in this. Like, there's so much going on just in your yard when you're shooting at a target. There's so much mental and physical, and there's so many things that have to align.

Not like boots,

socks. No, no, no, no. I got all that. That I'm terrible with too. I just stuff everything in there.

You take way more than you need.

A hundred percent. If I was going to go on one of those backpacking mountain hunts where you're carrying your whole camp on your back and you're walking in for fucking 20 miles, I'd be the guy that has like the 80-pound pack, because that's throwing extra batteries and extra broadheads in case that happens.

Hiding stuff in the bushes on your way up.

Two knives, just in case. You know, meanwhile, like Adam Greentree has been doing it forever. That motherfucker saws his toothbrushes in half to cut weight. He's got it down to a science.

You would do that one time.

One time. Yeah, exactly.

That's how you learn that. Everybody's learned that.

So my process for packing is just fucking. shove it all in there and mostly like that. I always have two range finders and two binos in case I drop something. You know, remember that time we were hunting in Canada and I broke my wrist?

I did.

My wrist snapped? I did. But I had a whisker biscuit. I was ready. I was like, ha!

Oh, that's good.

He was being obsessive out there with his wrist, just like wrenching on it for hours and changing and doing all this, and ended up stripping something out because he's like got too crazy on the rest. Well,

it was fucking up on me. It was fucking up. The rest wasn't dropping all the way, and so, like my arrow, was catching it, like the fletchings were catching it, and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And then I was like, oh, look at my wrist. It's like slightly up above the riser.

Oh, no.

Oh, no. But whisker biscuits, man, I know they take a couple of seconds away from your beepers, but boy, that was fucking easy to tune.

Oh, yeah, it's a lot less little stuff to go wrong.

I know some fucking high level hunters still use whisker biscuits just because they don't want to fuck around with anything. It's like,

for that hunt, it's perfect. You're going to be shooting at 10 or 20 yards or a whitetail hunter, they're shooting at 20 yards. So if you're going to be shooting long distance, a fletch going through with all that contact through the whisker, basically, that's going to impact long distance.

Well, apparently, it really impacts it when you have helical.

Yeah.

Right, so if you have straight, so helical, for people that are listening, there's an angle that the fletchings are placed in that accentuates the spinning of the arrow, which makes it more accurate, and, you know, that's what you want, right? So some people don't use that. They just have straight up and down fletchings, which is still good. You know, you can still shoot very accurately with straight up and down fletchings, but most, like, really good archers, prefer a helical. Like, you have a helical.

Yeah, give a little direction to that energy, so the arrow won't plane.

Right. But that whisker biscuit accelerates. that spin, makes it immediate, though, right?

Well, it fucks up the fletchings because it's twisting as it's going through all those hairs. Yeah, yeah. Whereas if you have a straight, you know, straight fletching, it's just going to pass through. It only takes a few feet. Tim Burnett still hunts with a whisker biscuit.

The last thing I did with mine is I put it on my fishbow, but it won't float a fiberglass arrow, I realized.

Too heavy.

You know what I'm saying?

I was like,

man, this is going to be genius for fish hunting. Right. But it just, the arrow just goes,

right through it.

Right through the hairs, yeah.

That looks like a lot of fun, like bow hunting for fish. Oh, I love it, man. That looks like a lot of fun.

The problem is,

Right. Like gar and carp and stuff like that.

Down in South America, you're hunting like the best, the best of the best fish. Yeah. With a bow? Yeah. Oh.

Isn't it wild that carp are like prized in Europe?

Yeah, I know. It doesn't make any sense.

They, like, they, go out of their way.

I would say it doesn't make any sense that they did it, but I don't know where we went. I don't know how we went so wrong. Yeah, it's weird, right? They put them all over, thinking everybody's going to eat them all the time. It, just like, did not take off.

Well, they ruined lakes. Where I live, on Lake Austin, there's a buddy of mine who's one of my neighbors, who's a fisherman. And he said, man, you should have been here before they brought carp. He goes, there's all sorts of vegetation in here and the bass were everywhere. But now he goes, if you can get a camera and look at the bottom of this lake, it looks like the bottom of a swimming pool.

But the fact that it was intentional. There's so many non-native, there's so many invasive species that were unintentional. But the fact that for the most part, the common carp was, they were doing everybody a favor.

I think they thought they were doing a favor for rich people on Lake Austin. Because I think they wanted people to have less vegetation so they could take their boats out. Got it. That's what I think. And that's what he thinks too.

You weren't yelling at him? No.

I've seen that on your show. No, I like it. When I see those guys, they're always a little nervous. So I was like, how you doing, man? You're like,

oh man, this guy's going to yell at me.

I was telling this guy the other day that there's this four pound bass that lives underneath my dock. I go, hey man, there's a pretty good bass that lives underneath the dock. And he was like, really? I go, yeah, go ahead and fish it, man.

I started talking to him.

But my friend Alan, shout out to Alan, who's my neighbor, he catches, all he catches is big bass.

He goes, I don't even try.

He uses a big ass fucking Rapala. He has one of those jointed Rapalas, and it's like fucking six inches long. He's like, I don't even fuck around. He goes, I just want big bass. Because there's like 15, 16 pound bass in that lake.

We used to, me and Roy used to be addicted to carp hunting. Because we'd go, they'd be spawning in the spring after we poured concrete. He had a construction company. We'd pour concrete, then we'd go, and go try to get carp for bear bait. So before they outlawed it in 94 in Oregon, we'd get carp, catch these giant carp, have a wheelbarrow, get them all back, put them in a, like a 55 gallon drum, put the lid on it, and then we'd make stink.

Have you ever seen those videos of when whales explode on beaches?

Yeah, when they, well, I've seen them. when they blow them up. Yeah.

This is when Alan just caught this in front of my house the other day.

God dang, that's giant.

Yeah, he catches some big ass bass.

That's a real nice fish, man.

Yeah, I think that.

That'd get me interested in bass fishing.

Yeah, he catches a lot. Here's another one he just got. And whenever he catches one, he sends it to me. Yeah. We're homies now.

Those are a big fish.

But yeah, that's the weird thing. is the dock thing. I encourage it. I'm happy when I see people, like. I love all manner of outdoor activities.

Yeah. I think it's a repulsive behavior.

It's repulsive. Yeah, it's not. It's not your. It's a dock. Like, let people fish.

Yeah. Or it's like, well, you're going to have to move your dock because there's a fish under there that I'm not going to fish for.

But this is the situation where. that's where they go. They go where it's shade. They go where they can ambush and they all go under docks and, you know, hanging trees and anything they can get, because they fucked it up with carp.

Yeah.

I was living in Seattle for a while and there's a weird fish, small mouth and perch and stuff in this thing at Lake Washington, which is like right downtown. And there's this, I was in this neighborhood where they have these apartment buildings that are on pilings. So there's just full on apartment buildings out over the water, built on piers. And they would cast shadows and fish would collect there. And you'd be in a boat, man.

Yeah.

That's weird.

That felt weird, weirder than, you know, like I said, where you got a house, then a yard, then a dock. Like, that's not weird. But you could get where you could basically like awkwardly wave at someone in their bathroom while you're trying to fish.

Yeah, just don't make eye contact. Sitting there, taking a shit, looking out the window.

Yeah, the dock thing is a weird one, man. It's a weird one because I get it if you're not a fisherman and you're just some asshole that just doesn't want anybody near your house.

What they're going to tell you, what they always tell you is that some guy's going to take a lead head jig and chip the paint. Chip the paint on the boat, ding the dock. Like, that's their claim.

Okay.

Is that they're going to whack your stuff with a lead head jig.

I feel like that's the same as if you're driving off-road, like, and you're worried about pebbles. We've got to get these fucking pebbles out of here. Like, you're driving off-road.

Yeah, be like, well, don't put your stuff out over the public water.

Yeah, and what are you doing? A boat's not a car, man. Like, it's a boat. It's supposed to get scratched up a little. You don't want your boat scratched up a little?

Some people don't, no.

What the fuck? I don't get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you've got, like, if you're on a ranch and you've got those stripes down the side of your truck.

Arizona pinstripes.