JRE MMA Show #140 with Gillian Robertson
2023-05-31 02:15:55
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
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How long do you have to stop smoking weed before you'll test positive?
Usually about five days.
Five days before a fight?
If you're smoking straight flour. But if you're smoking like oil, dabs, anything like that, then you need a little bit more time.
You got down to a science?
I figured it out when I tested positive one fight. Because I was smoking oil and I stopped five days out.
Oh, smoking oil. Those wacky kids and their dabs and oil. You guys go too far.
There's way too many ways now, I feel like.
You go to dark places. You do dabs, you go to dark places.
Especially with dabs, that's the next level, extreme.
Yeah, I'm not interested in that. You just get too far gone. You don't even know how to move your hands right.
There's this stuff that, I'm a medical patient in Florida. And there's stuff you can get from the dispensary. It's like little nose drops. And that shit makes you, literally I feel like I can't form sentences.
Is this a spray?
Yeah, it's just like a nasal spray.
There's so many wacky people in Austin spraying ketamine up their nose. It is a real issue. We had a girl go into a K-hole at our comedy club the other night. And her boyfriend's, like, she, just did a lot of ketamine. And we're like, Jesus, fucking Christ.
Do that at home, you nuts. They're doing ketamine and going to see comedy. From the moment I got here, it's been offered to me frequently. What is going on? How's ketamine?
Ketamine's a fucking tranquilizer, right? It's a powerful psychedelic, too, right? It's also available in clinics for people with PTSD. I feel like there's a lot of people that are doing it like every day, though. Have you done it?
No, no, I've never messed with anything like that.
I took a little at Duncan's. Duncan had one. I think he made it in his bathtub. What did it feel like? Do you remember?
Weird. But it was very little. Just take one pump. I took like one pump. I was like, this is odd.
But I know the source, and I know where he's getting it. And it's all medical grade and legit. But it's like, what is that?
Yeah, I don't know. I like a lot of natural things better.
THC nasal mist.
Well, yeah, I guess marijuana is the ultimate natural thing. I was just saying that I hurt my back a little bit. It tweaked a muscle, and it was locked up. And I put on this CBD MD Recover Cream. I mean, that stuff is insanely good.
It's incredible. how much better I felt. That's crazy. It's amazing that CBD has that kind of power.
Yeah, I've never used a topical cream like that. But I've used pills and things like that with CBD, and I feel like it definitely does make a difference. I don't know. There's a huge difference.
Huge difference. My friend Dave Foley had real bad arthritis in his hands. And he started taking CBD, and all of a sudden, his hands started working fine. It just took a while. Your body is filled with inflammation.
And CBD is just an awesome way to get rid of inflammation.
Especially as a fighter.
Oh, yeah.
It's like everything's inflamed constantly.
Who needs CBD more than fighters, right? And who needs marijuana more than fighters? Just to fucking chill the fuck out. The stress that you go through on a regular basis is so bonkers. If you really think about it, you're around all these other human beings that are going about their day, driving their cars, going to work.
You're preparing to throw bones at girls. You're preparing to strangle people. You put people to sleep for a living. That is a wild thing to do, sister.
It's like pre-fight when I'm sitting there and I'm feeling all my nerves. My boyfriend, he's told me, he's like, you need to be thankful for this, because he's like, most people don't get to experience shit like this in their life. Most people don't get to experience these kinds of feelings, like these extreme feelings, because they just have their regular jobs. It's like what I'm doing is something crazy.
It's so crazy. It's so crazy. When you do it in a place like when you – Was it in London with Molly McCann? Was that London?
It was actually Liverpool.
Liverpool.
Yeah. That was crazy.
That was crazy. When you got her back and put her to sleep, I was like, oh shit.
That was pretty much – It was my first fight out of the tough house. My UFC debut was technically against Emily Wittmeyer, but it was still – we were in the tough house. We didn't have our actual fight kit, things like that. So Molly McCann, I feel like, was really the first fight where I was like, this is a real UFC fight for me. And my flight was delayed.
Everything – she missed weight. I feel like everything went wrong that week. I got booed, walking out. So it's like – I don't know. Just to get that success.
after that, I feel like, was such a great thing for me.
How did they treat you when you got out?
After I got out, honestly, everybody was great. Even Molly invited me to her after party. My brother flew out there, so I ended up going out with him. Oh, that's cool. And we were just walking around Liverpool, and everybody coming up to me trying to get pictures.
The Liverpool fans were 100% supportive. It was great.
That's cool. Of course they're going to boo you.
Yeah.
It's their girl.
Oh, yeah, 100%. I expected every minute of it.
Plus, what a personality she has. She's awesome.
I absolutely love her. Probably out of all the girls I've fought in the UFC, Molly's definitely probably the top.
She's a character. Her and Patty together are fucking amazing. It's hilarious. This should be a reality show.
She's absolutely a genuine sweetheart of a person, and, like you said, an absolute character as well.
And she can fight.
Yeah, 100%.
She can fight her ass off. Her stand-up is nasty. She's so tough. She's so tough.
All girls, I feel like, from that area, they got that extra toughness to them. And she definitely is superior in that.
Yeah, for her it just feels like grappling came like a little later for her, and that can be a problem with someone of your caliber. You know, the thing about, like, grappling is, God, it takes so long to catch up, and while you're catching up, that person's still getting better. If they're training every day, it's like when someone is at a super high grappling level, and if you're just getting into grappling now, like you're just surviving, and it's a long time until you're doing anything other than surviving, unless you're some athletic freak, unless you're some just unbelievable specimen of a human that just learns quicker than everybody else. Most of the time it's, like, really hard to catch up when you're a pure striker.
Yeah, there's just so much to learn in jiu-jitsu. Even, like, I got my black belt, I think, two or three years ago now, and I feel like I still don't know anything. I feel like it's just like there's so much to learn, so many different styles, different things. Even, like, leg locks, I don't know deep into that game. I know good defensively, but offensively, I feel like that's a completely different world.
The leg lock game is crazy, because that just took over. It was so amazing to watch something that you used to get booed for. Like, if they went to tournaments, especially in Brazil, people would boo you. They did not like when you were doing stuff like that. I guess, because it really messes people up in training.
Like, they had to know it was really effective, but too many people had to ruin knees, and they just decided, like, hey, this is a bad idea. And it might be a bad idea in the gi. You know, in the gi, it's like, whoa, man, you can't get out of that. very well. At least in no-gi, there's, like, a little bit more maneuverability.
When someone's, like, grabbing your legs, and they've got your pants, and they're holding on to the cuff in here, it's like, ooh, that's tight for a leg lock. That's scary.
I'm almost more nervous competing no-gi now than versus fighting MMA, just because no-gi girls are so well-versed in leg locks, and that shit's dangerous. It's like that can put me out for six months a year plus, where it's like the worst thing I've ever had happen in a fight is I got 11 stitches in my nose. It's like, besides that, and even that, I grappled a month later.
Who was that woman, that heavily tattooed woman? You got her back, too. She had a crazy nickname, like the Demon Slayer.
Oh, Maria Agpova. Yes.
She has a wild nickname, right?
Yeah, it's something like that, yeah.
When you were fighting her, she hit you with a bunch of, like, really hard elbows while you were trying to take her down. That was just a maze that you just stuck with. the path. You just kept, you're like, uh-uh, I got you, I got you, uh-uh, you're not getting away with this, I'm going to hang on to you, and I'm going to drag you to the ground, I'm going to get you. And when you finally did, I was like, damn, that was systematic.
But you endured, like, some hard shots.
Honestly, I don't think, like, I don't know, I didn't really have much damage off of those shots. I didn't really feel a lot of those, and they weren't really, like, the only reason that I even thought about them is because the ref was like, you need to do something, I'm going to stop this. And I was like, oh, shit, I've got to change something up. But I was initially going for a knee bar when she was just hitting me with elbows, and then I gave up on that because of the ref.
Isn't it interesting how subjective refereeing can be, in that there's some referees that are really good at letting people just fight out of stuff, and then there's some referees that, like, just getting hit even with a few hammer fists that aren't going to stop you if you don't defend them. Some refs will just stop it right there. It's just completely subjective. Like, for that ref to tell you that, like, you can't endure these shots, it's you don't get enough time. Like, actually, they're not that hard.
It sounds bad, but it doesn't really hurt. I'm okay. But you can't say that in the middle of a fight. So there's this weird, like, communication issue. Like, he sees you getting hit, but I saw you getting hit by those shots.
Jesus Christ. See if you can find that. See if you can find that. Because in that exchange, when you're trying to take her down, like, Jesus. Those are some hard elbows.
Travis Brown was the master of that.
Oh, yeah.
I feel like no one had more power than him when he was delivering those elbows.
And I think he kind of invented it, or at least he popularized it. We call it the Travis Brown, because he would drive down those elbows when you were trying to take him down. That was a horrible place to be.
I don't think I've seen people drop like I have with Travis Brown.
Well, he obviously drilled it. It wasn't an improvised thing. At least I don't think it was. It just seemed so well-timed. And the force that he could generate because he's so big and long.
When you're a long person, like a John Jones type person, the amount of extra force that you have and all that length and torque.
Yeah, so somewhere in the clinch. We're going to get a view of your whole fight here. What is it like watching yourself fight? Is it weird?
I guess, I don't know.
I do it a lot. I use myself as motivation of how I should perform. A lot of times I watch my past wins just to really, I guess, relive that kind of feeling. So then it gives you something to chase the next fight.
Oh, that's brilliant. That's a great way to do it, especially since you've got these well-documented, awesome videos from the UFC of your wins. It's one of the coolest things ever to be a fan. right now. You can just watch fights at any time you want.
Anytime. Anytime. Instantly. You're watching fights.
I'm a huge fan of the sport, just in general. So just being able to do that, look up any fight, anything you want. I'm like, it's crazy.
I love it. It's like the best time ever for high-level kickboxing. It's the best time for amateur wrestling. It's the best time for submission grappling. There's never been more people that have been more interested in submission grappling now.
I think we got past the elbows here. This is where the chokes happen.
First round.
Yeah, first round.
Oh, is that round two?
We can still watch that, though. I still want to watch that choke. Just skip that. I'll come back. Okay.
Yeah, so is right here. he's telling you you have to do something?
No, I had her butt on the floor by this point because I actually knew she had an injured knee going into this fight.
Oh, how did you know that?
She talked about it in interviews and I actually knew a couple people she trained with who told me. Oh, a bunch of rats. Yeah. Dirty rats.
Dirty rats. Do you feel bad taking that information? It is what it is.
I definitely utilized it.
Yeah, you have to.
I try.
You'd be crazy not to.
I probably wouldn't have committed to the knee bar so hard if I didn't know that that knee injury was there. Right. So it's like I started going for the knee bar and she just kept on hitting me with elbows. And then, once we were on the floor, I think he thought I was injured because I was committing to the knee bars. I was trying to put my hips down.
So that's when he told me I needed to move.
Why is it going in slow motion? I don't know what's happening. Is someone breaking down some specific? No, it's on ESPN's website. Oh.
It's just freaking out. It's the Russians. The Russians don't like Americans winning. They don't like it.
Okay. So at one point you were getting drilled with elbows. I don't know if we're going to find it without watching the whole fight. But it was just an awesome performance overall. That and the Molly McCann one.
You've had a bunch of them. I think. I was equally impressed with the Rose Namba-Yunus grappling match. That was so slick. The way you took her back and controlling the position.
You never lost an inch. You just kept progressing until you got the choke. It was awesome.
I feel like my choking game is definitely different than anybody else's. It's a feel that I've been working on for years. I feel like I still haven't even perfected it. But I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to making it perfect. I think the Rose grappling match was probably one of the opportunities where I feel like I really got it just that little bit more close to perfect.
I wasn't even on her throat at first. She had her chin tucked. My hand was in poor position. I feel like I was just able to walk it closer and closer until I was able to make that hold tighter. She had to give up her throat at that point.
What I was super impressed with was your use of the shoulder. How you're using your right arm to control the shoulder. Because you don't quite have it, but you've got a nice grip on the cup of the shoulder. And you're using that leverage. That improvised.
Then, when you switched to the gable grip, I was like, oh shit. The gable grip was it. But when you were using her shoulder, I was like, that's brilliant.
Dean always tells me, if her chin is tucked, you should be able to break it. It's like the goal is to break the jaw. Just creating that pressure with just closing the circle. Trying to make that circle smaller. I'm just inching my hand deeper and my head deeper until I can really just make it so it's too small.
I love what you said, that you have a feel for it. I think people would think of it like, oh, it's just like, you know the movement. You do it, right? But it's just like everything else. It's like playing guitar.
It's like any other thing that you learn how to do. that's difficult. There's like levels and levels, and levels, and levels and levels. And when you watch really high level black belts going at it. Going back and forth and trying to keep up with each other.
You're watching the craziest kind of game ever.
I've taught my choke to multiple people. And I feel like people just don't get it still. Because it's something I've worked on for years.
What's specific about your choke?
It's just the way that I have my pressure. I feel like I can generally finish it with one hand. I never really look for the hooks. I'm usually just searching for it opportunistically. So I get it whenever it's almost too late to defend it.
And even just like the pressure of my choke, though. I think it's something that anybody could learn. But it's just a lot of patience. Because it's something that's so basic and so simple. But, like I said, I've drilled it a thousand times.
And I don't think I have it right yet. So I think it's just you really have to put the time and effort into one specific motion. Which a lot of people don't have time for.
So you just over and over again drilled it? Or you just over and over again used it in training? What sparked this strangulation reign that you've been on? How did that start?
It's definitely both. I feel like a lot of my technique comes from Dean Thomas. Dean's the man. Yeah, he's the engineer behind a lot of whatever I do.
And he kind of devised this way of going for the neck. And just off-balancing opponents and attacking the throat. And we've been drilling it for years and years and years. And I feel like the way he's described it to me hasn't really clicked until recently. Where we've been drilling it for years.
And now it's like, all right, I kind of get this.
Yeah, the way you do it is so brilliantly, the way it progresses. What's beautiful to watch, especially the Rose Match in particular, is the squeeze that you put. The progression of it is what you want to see at a really high level. That's what you want to see. And when someone executes and executes it on someone who is a champion of the UFC, it's really incredible.
I mean, that was an amazing showcase for you.
And into MMA. it just plays in perfectly. My last fight with Piera Rodriguez, I was in mount throwing elbows the whole time. And every time she tried to turn her back a little bit, her coaches were like, no, no, don't give your back. So they're just making her lay on the ground and take elbows to the face instead of giving up her back.
So I'm like, it's the worst of two worlds there. You get your choice.
Do you have, is the rest of your game as strong as your choke game?
I think so. I think my top pressure in jiu-jitsu is definitely something that a lot of girls especially have. Even a lot of guys, I feel like I get a lot of compliments. I feel like in the jiu-jitsu world it's the only place where you can tell a girl she's heavy and it's a compliment.
Right. You got heavy hips. What?
Yeah. Everybody tells me that I'm really heavy. I feel like it's that kind of top pressure, which is going to be dominant in an MMA game.
Yeah, it absolutely can be. I mean, you look at the guys from Dagestan, all the Khabib disciples, Islam, Akachev, Khabib, those guys, they just crush you. They get on top of you and crush you. And when you see where really good high-level submission artists get smushed by guys like Khabib, you're like, wow. That's some crazy – it's like there's layers and layers to everything.
And we didn't know the layer of controlling the legs with the legs until Khabib came along and did it. And when he would do it so thoroughly, you'd be like, Jesus Christ, he does this to everybody. He didn't even have a bad moment until there was like – the Gleison-Tebow fight was a pretty close fight, I believe. And then one round with Conor. But even that round was like a round.
he took off. It's like that guy. But the squeeze that guy had, it's like everybody that trains him says, you don't understand. It's like he weighs 400 pounds. It doesn't even make any sense.
Yeah, that top control is just completely different. And it's like – I always say I'm like people hit a lot less – they don't hit as hard when they're on their back.
Right, of course.
So I'd rather have somebody on their back than stand face-to-face with me.
And you're draining them.
Exactly. It's exhausting.
That person carrying your weight, it's exhausting. You're always moving to try to defend. It's very difficult to get out of. And, especially if it's a superior grappler in the scramble, it's just going to take your back.
Exactly. Always looking for the submissions, the strikes. And if I'm on bottom, it's strike, sweep, submit, or stand up. We're just working for the finish constantly.
Well, that's what I love about your style. And I think that's what makes it so fan-friendly too. It's so exciting. And I love the technique. The technique is so sharp.
But you were saying something that I wanted to ask you to elaborate on. You said you don't even go for the hooks. You're so concerned with the choke that you'll take the choke, even if you have no hooks, and then get the hooks later.
The hooks aren't even – that's like last priority, or I don't need them even. I don't think I had any hooks when I choked Rose.
But I have such a unique grip with my head and hand position on my choke. So it's just – it doesn't really matter. That's where my control point is. It's not on the lower half of the body. It's on the choke.
And usually when I have the choke before I get the hooks in, it's like people aren't ready to defend it. Usually you put the hooks in and people are already here. And now you have to hand fight, and you're there for who knows how long. Right. Where.
if I get my choke first, then it's like if I need the hooks for control, I can get them in. But you're already choking, so you're worried about that.
So is this Dean's coaching? Did he coach you to do it this way?
Oh, yeah. He definitely came up with a whole game plan of that, where it's just going for the choke, just opportunistically.
Just because you're so good at it.
I feel like literally. I've worked with Dean since day one. So I think it's – he kind of also just molded this game plan for me.
That's awesome. He's the second best dressed guy in MMA. It's like neck and neck with him and Bruce Buffer. I think you've got to give the nod to Buffer.
Yeah, I think you have to give it to Buffer.
He has such crazy suits. He has suits with pictures of Elvis inside of them and shit. He's like every suit is weirder. They're crazy. They're so beautiful, too.
They're all perfectly tailored. Oh, yeah. He must have 100,000 of them. I mean, how many fucking suits does that guy have? He changes multiple times now, too.
Oh, he's a maniac. Main card suit. Yeah. Bro, his tailor must be balling. Because it's all custom made shit.
Look at this one. It's beautiful. Oh, that's Miami? What's in there? That's him.
Oh, Vegas. Oh, it's all him.
He's his own lining of his own jacket. It's a comic book. How dope is it, though, when that guy yells your name?
I know. Literally, last fight, I had to think to myself. I'm like, all right, that's Bruce Buffer. Just focus on the fight. Just think about Pierre right now.
Is it weird?
It's definitely weird. I don't know. Everything is weird about this. for me. It's just like I'm just like, I guess a socially awkward kind of don't really put myself out there.
Well, I do with fighting, but it's like I've never really put myself out there in life. So, it's like to be in these kind of positions, it's all a lot for me.
Wow. Well, it's amazing the way you handle fighting. You could handle this the same way you handle fighting. You just get comfortable with it.
I think that – I don't know. For me, social situations are a lot harder than fighting situations. Wow.
That's crazy.
Oh, yeah.
Has it always been like that?
100%.
Since you were a child?
Yeah. I feel like I've always been the socially awkward kid in the back of the class, like the nerd. Well, I still am at the gym. But I volunteered with animals my whole life. I volunteered at, like the Humane Society, a horse rescue, wildlife rehab.
Just like animals were my thing. And then it was just kind of left field. I started kickboxing when I was 16..
Just for fun?
Yeah. I really don't know where it came – like what the idea was.
Where did you start? What gym?
At Dean's gym.
Oh, okay. Wow. You got lucky.
So, exactly. One of Dean's pro fighters worked for my dad. So, I wanted to start kickboxing. And then my dad found out that this guy was a pro fighter for Dean. So, he ended up finding his gym.
And that was the first gym I started at.
Wow. Well, what a great place to start. And so, then you start kickboxing. And how long before you decide, well, what about this MMA stuff? How long was that?
I think it was probably like four or five months before I started taking the MMA class there. But I wasn't like thinking about fighting. It was just. there was a kid who was on the wrestling team at my high school who started training at Dean's gym. And he was like, oh, why don't you take the MMA class?
And I thought, okay, I'll have a partner. Why don't I try it? And I just kept on doing it. And then I was training like every day, for like three hours a night, you know. And they're like, all right, well, why don't we just get you a fight at this point?
Wow. Wow. What was it about fighting and martial arts that you became so obsessed with?
I really think it was when – I don't know what it was at first, because I didn't start jiu-jitsu, especially in the Gi, until like a year after I started training. But when I started Gi jiu-jitsu, I fell in love with that 100%, where it's just the technique of it and the little tiny details of jiu-jitsu that matter so much. Like if you put your thumb on this side of the hand or on this side of the hand, it makes a huge difference. It's like the little tiny techniques that can make the difference. where now a 115-pound girl at the time could do whatever she wanted to a 200-pound guy.
I was manhandling these guys around the room. And I'm like, just because of these techniques that I learned. And I thought that was awesome.
Yeah, that is an amazing thing. Jiu-jitsu is the one martial art that delivers as promised, where the smaller trained person can defeat the larger, untrained person. Whereas a lot of other martial arts, I mean, you have a better chance. But when they're really big and some guy is swinging it, if he knows how to punch a little bit and you get clubbed with one of those giant hams, you get fucked up. But if you get into a struggle, like some sort of a scramble, and you knock into some chairs and all of a sudden you get a hold of this person, now he's fucked.
That's what's crazy. It's like that a small person can physically control and submit a much stronger person regularly. It happens all the time. It happens with black belts.
Even in striking, it's like a person cannot know anything. But if they're big enough, they throw their hand the right way, they can knock you out. Yeah.
If you get hit with Francis Ngannou's pinky, you're in trouble. There's certain people, they're so powerful. The idea that you're going to stand and trade with them is crazy. They're going to hit you once and you're dead.
It just doesn't work that well.
Jiu-jitsu, it's just. there's not the variant of space. So there's not that element of guessing where it's like. I can control and I can feel what you're going to do by touching you. It makes it a lot easier.
You're not guessing what that space is striking.
You're also not guessing the variables like how fast is this person? How fast am I accustomed to people punching me? Is this person much faster? Do I have to anticipate that? Because if you ever see like street fight videos, the most horrific ones are some poor asshole who wants to start a fight with someone who's a train fighter and the train fighter fucks him up.
But you could see like they have no idea how fast things can happen. I'm sure you've seen a Joe Schilling one.
Joe Schilling, one is ridiculous.
But there's no way that guy could have known that that could happen that quickly. There's no way.
And people don't expect like for someone like me, a lot of times I get, I would never guess that you're a fighter. For someone like. Joe Schilling is still even like, oh, yeah, you wouldn't. Looks like an axe murderer. You just see him walking around.
Most people. you don't expect that. they're. Joe Schilling. you don't expect it?
He looks like a psycho to me. Yeah. But say like Ryan Hall.
Ryan Hall is a great example.
You don't expect him to be a fighter, but it's like you never know what somebody is capable of when it comes to sports like this.
Oh, for sure. With Jiu Jitsu. Mikey Musumechi.
Yeah, exactly. That's the best example.
Mikey is a stone cold killer. And he looks like a guy who comes over to fix your computer.
He's the friendliest, super nerd. Oh, this video is horrible. This is a street fight in a parking garage. Have you seen this?
No.
These guys start fucking with this dude in a parking garage. The guy is trying to get away. No, he fucked the other guy up before this. This is the shorter version. Okay, this is the shorter version.
So this guy, he's trying. He's like, come on, you want some? And he moves forward. This guy leg kicks him. And then this is where it gets ugly.
Punches him. Bam.
Yeah, you don't want that.
It's awesome to see that stuff works, right, for people. Like, hey, this is real. Someone tries to attack you, you have an upper hand. But also, what are you doing? These fucking people.
I've never been in a street fight in my life. Good for you. I don't intend to ever. It's just, I don't get it. I don't see a use for fighting outside the cage for me.
A lot of people, anger management issues. And then there's criminals, too. Bad folks.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff in the world. But I, just, for me, I think it's fascinating that you are more afraid of social interaction than you're afraid of cage fighting. That might be one of the greatest lines that anyone has ever said. I think that's going to get you a lot of fans.
For real. For me, it's just, like, literally, I never really did any kind of interviews or media or anything like that until I got in the tough house. So, that's going from absolutely zero to 100%.
What was that like? You were like 22 at the time?
Yeah, I was 22. And I was having interviews every day, cameras on you 24-7.. Literally, after every single interview, I had to go and change my shirt because I'd be dripping sweat like I just got out the sauna.
Whoa.
I was just so nervous after every single interview.
Do you think they brought you into the house knowing that you were nervous, too? That, like, you're a little socially awkward in that regard and, like, that, maybe that would make good television?
I guess I never thought of it that way.
Obviously, they brought you in because you're skillful. Yeah. But they also cast that show as a reality show. It's a very cleverly done show. You know, like, it's smart, the way they do it.
Like, even with what they're doing now with Conor McGregor and Michael Chandler, it's great. But perfect shit talking when Conor tells them, you'll do as you're told.
It's amazing. I hope that fight takes place. But it's such a show, right? So, it's not just an athletic competition. It's also.
they want to make sure the people are fun.
Oh, yeah. Our season seemed pretty, like, tame, though, I feel like, in general. We had a lot of, there was me and Montana De La Rosa. were the two, like, younger girls. And then everybody else, I feel like, was, like, older and more mature.
Like, around, like, at least, like, 30s. And, like, they were, like, I don't, nobody was trying to start drama. Nobody was trying to, like, get in each other's faces or we didn't have any altercations. It was, like, it was a pretty chill season.
That's great. So, no one ever encourages, like, any bickering or anything like that? They don't ever tell you, hey, you know, this bitch has been saying some shit. Does anybody ever do that?
No, nobody ever really does anything like that. But it's just, like, the boredom gets to you, if anything else. It's, like, I feel like.
No phones, right?
No phones, no TV, no music, no books, no nothing. No books. Nothing at all.
Oh, my God. Nothing?
So, it's, like.
Can you have a notebook?
You're allowed to get a notebook. And then they gave us, we asked for coloring books and they gave us sketch pads.
Oh, my God. I think I would go nuts. That sounds like one of those, like, anti-tech retreats, you know? Exactly. Where they try to weed people off their tech addictions.
I was just talking to one of the boys who's actually on the Conor McGregor season over the weekend. And he said the exact same thing as me. He was, like, it was the best and worst experience of my life. Because it's, like, when you're in the gym, there's so many highs. It's so great.
But then when you go back to the house, you're just sitting there for hours and you're bored and it sucks.
What do you guys do to kill time? Can you play games? Do they have, like. They used to have pool, right?
Yeah. I think they had a pool table and a chess table. And then they have, like, the list where you can order anything. Oh.
So, you could order, like, Monopoly?
Yeah. So, we would order a bunch of bullshit just to try and entertain ourselves.
God. Did you have good conversations?
Or was it weird because you're all competitors?
It's weird. Well, not because we're competitors, because I'm weird.
That's awesome.
I felt like I, especially back then, I wasn't able to just, like, I don't know, acclimate to that. Going into a house with 16 different girls. that I don't really know.
Right. Yeah. A completely alien experience. And you're feeling a little bit awkward, and you're also 22.. And then also, bam, now you're on TV.
And it's my first time, like, really, like, leaving home, I would say, you know, for a long period of time. So, it was definitely a big experience. Like, a lot, to take on.
How long ago was that now?
Six years.
Six years. So, would you say that now you're entering into your fighting prime? Do you think that's happening right now?
Oh, yeah. I think this is, like, just the beginning of my prime. I'm just getting into where I've really found the right combination for everything. And I feel like I'm just getting better every fight.
Are you ranked right now? And where are you at?
My next fight is against the number 15 girl, Tabitha Ricci.
Interesting. She's tough. That'll be fun. That'll be a good one.
Yeah, I'm like, it's coming up quick, June 24th. Oh, wow.
That is quick. How many would you—what is, like, your ideal camp size, like, in terms of weeks?
I would say probably about six to eight weeks. I like just to get focused on that opponent, really start breaking down their style and game planning for them specifically. But it's like with the UFC, you never know what you're getting.
Right. How often do they call you last minute?
I've gotten a handful of last minute ones. I feel like it's almost just as bad getting, like, the one 16 weeks out and things like that, because you're just sitting there waiting for so long.
Or you run the risk of overtraining. Have you ever done that? Where you peaked too early in a camp?
I feel like I train year-round, no matter what, so it's like it's never really, like, we're— I know, we pushed it the last couple weeks, but that's about it.
Really? So? you're just always training so hard that you can essentially take—well, that's great. if you want to take a short-notice fight.
Yeah.
Because you're always prepared.
I train probably about four or five hours in the morning and about an hour at night, even if I'm off camp. Like, in camp, out of camp, it doesn't matter. Wow. On the same schedule.
Just obsession.
Yeah, I got nothing better to do.
But, I mean, what an amazing way to get better. You know, I mean, when you think about grappling and you think about Gordon Ryan, no one doubts that he's the best no-geek grappler ever, right? But no one also doubts that he works 365 days a year. Like, that's an insane work schedule, and these are insane results. And you're essentially doing that in MMA.
That's what I think you see with, like, a lot of black belts or, like, people who are at a high level, is they stop drilling. They stop doing the stuff that, like, Gordon, Ryan, still drills every day, and that's why he's so good at what he does. And it's, like, people at a high level in MMA, they're just doing what the black belts do and sitting on the side until it's time to roll. You know? Yeah.
And it's, like, you've got to be drilling every day. You've got to be putting in the hours. Like, my coaches are there with me every hour of the day if I wanted for them to be. You know, they're willing to put in the work. And, like I said, as fighters, we've got nothing better to do.
Literally, this is what we do. Like, you've got to treat it as, like, you're going to school, a doctorate. You know?
Well, I think that approach, your approach, is perfect. That's the right way to do it. I really do. I mean, but everybody's different. You know?
People have, like, different ways of fighting and different ways of approaching fighting. Some are much more chaotic than, like, you and your style. But I think that's the best way to look at it. And I think too often people love to roll, because rolling is so fun. It's so fun that you just don't even want to do all that other stuff.
Let me get warmed up a little bit and let's fucking go. Let's go. You just want to go, because it's so exciting. It's the most fun thing. And it's exercise.
So it's, like, engaging intellectually. It's physically. It's emotionally engaging. It's, like, sometimes you're, like, fuck. Like, you're going to tap and you don't.
And there's a lot going on. There's battles going on. And it's a great workout. And if you can do it, and if you can do it on a regular basis, it could change your life. It could change your life.
And it's available to everybody. Like, this idea that it's all brutes. When you go to 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu, you see these, like, dudes that look like skateboarders and surfers and they'll strangle you. It's weird. It's, like, they're super nerd assassins.
There's a ton of them. And you're one of them on the female side.
Yeah, I feel like that's, I don't know. For me, it's, like I said, I've never been, like, someone athletic. I volunteered with animals growing up, you know. I was always the quiet kid in the back of the class. And it's, like, just, I don't know.
With Jiu-Jitsu, it's being able to be that, like, I don't know, be that voice in a way, you know, being that way to express myself. And I feel like it was just, like, completely not who I was when I was little, you know. So, it's a complete, yeah, out of left field.
But it's you, you know. You're just growing, you know. This is the new you, right? I mean, it is you. Yeah.
And you're going to, if you continue and you become champion, you're going to have to do a lot of this shit.
Oh, yeah.
You're going to have to do a lot of this shit, you know. I mean, how many fights do you think you are away from a title shot? It's a stacked division.
I don't think I'm too far away from it currently. I think that after this fight, I would, like, I'm not looking past Sabbath at all, but I'm also, like, looking at the trajectory of where I'm going. And, obviously, Mackenzie Dern just put on a great performance a couple weeks ago. And she has the second most submissions in women's history, and I have the first. So, it's like, I think I would like to, you know, just solidify that.
Everybody calls her the submission queen, even though I'm like, I have more than her.
Well, she's pretty awesome, but you are, too. That would be a crazy fight.
And I think, then, after that fight, I wouldn't be too far away from the title fight.
I was very impressed with her against Angela Hill. Angela Hill is so tough. She was taking so many shots. Like, oh, my God. And just can't fight, would not give up that armbar.
Like, so many times, Mackenzie came so close to getting that armbar, and Angela was just not giving up.
But, oof. I think that's the best Mackenzie we've seen so far.
Ever. Just, like, it was incredible. Incredible performance. And super aggressive, too.
Exactly. That's what I feel like was so beneficial for her. She doesn't have to worry about getting taken down, typically, you know. So, she can be a little bit reckless and come in with those strikes. And that's exactly what she needed to do with Angela Hill, and she was able to do it.
And she's dangerous on her feet now, too. It used to be just the ground. But now she's winging bombs. She hit Angela with a knee. You know, she's very dangerous.
She says she doesn't have to be scared, you know. So, she can throw, overcommit to any strike, throw with all her power. And it doesn't matter, because it's like, put me on my back. Like, thank you. Like, come into my guard.
Yeah, there's guards, you know. And then some, I mean, her guard, is fucking nasty. Her guard is so high level. Everything she does is so high level. It's like, when you can watch jiu-jitsu like that in MMA, like a real world champion, when it goes to the ground.
Like, her, like, moving from position to position to position to finally securing. It's like, whew. It's so quick. She's so good. So good and so technical.
You know, her dad's a legend. It's just like, that kind of, like, high level jiu-jitsu in MMA is some of my favorite shit to watch. You know, there's certain people that just have either one or two elite high level moves that they could pull off. And when they do it, you're just like, you're doing this to the best of the best in the world.
Yeah, I feel like with jiu-jitsu, it's just like, I don't know, just moving with people so much. I feel like it's so impressive to watch how people can just float on top of people. It's like knowing when to control and when to release, almost, you know. When you really need it. I don't know.
Some people are specialists at control, but, like, for someone like me, I feel like I'm better at flowing, you know, and letting people fall, make their own mistakes and fall into things. Whereas, like, someone like Khabib, is that pressure kind of fighter.
Right. You're better at finding the openings as you threaten them in different areas and just move into position, hold it.
Or, not necessarily me threatening them, but them falling into their own mistake. I feel like I like to, like, I'm just sitting there doing damage until I see the opening, until I see my opportunity, until I see that one mistake that you made and I capitalize on it.
And is this how you've always done it? or is this something you're doing now better than you've ever done before?
This is something I'm definitely doing now, better than I've ever done before.
Was this the same approach that you had in the beginning of your career, when you first started?
I don't think as much, just because now I feel like I went from a jiu-jitsu girl who did MMA to an MMA fighter more. Whereas, like, now, I don't know, like, a lot of my early submissions were arm bars off my back, where I was just comfortable playing guard, I didn't care because I was good at jiu-jitsu. Whereas, like, now, I'm always looking to do damage wherever I'm at. Typically, I like to sit on top and do heavy ground and pound and heavy top pressure until they're like, alright, we need to get this girl off me, I need to stand up, and then that's when I capitalize. Typically, a lot of times off, the stand up is where I find my choke, or if they're just staying on their back is where my arm bar open up, or, like, head and arms, other opportunities where I just don't like to give up that top position.
Yeah, top position's so important. It's just, if you can control the top, it's just much easier for you than it is for the other, and it's also kind of humiliating. Someone's on top of you, in front of all these people, punching you in the face.
It's also just a lot to carry on top of you, it makes it, you gas, makes it heavy, yeah. And that, like, I feel like nobody understands the cardio that it takes to get up and get down and get up and get down in MMA, versus, like, if you're just doing jiu-jitsu or you're just doing kickboxing rounds. It's like once you mix it all together, it's just, it changes the pace.
Clearly, yeah. I remember one of the most brilliant things that, when George St. Pierre fought BJ Penn, he wanted to grapple with him immediately. He wanted to really get a hold of him right away to wear his arms out. He goes, I want his arms to be filled with blood.
So, like, it changes it. It changes your ability to throw punches. It changes your ability to get snap off, to explode. You're kind of gassed out, because you've been pummeling and trying to avoid being taken to the ground. When people don't know when they see, like, your fights, these exchanges against the cage, those are some of the most grueling moments in all of MMA.
Just the battle to see who wins this thing.
Yeah, exactly. Especially against the cage. Honestly, a lot of those battles, I'm just like, if we can find an opportunity to break off, I'm willing to. Because it's like, if I didn't get the takedown initially, then I'm just going to be grueling. You said it's going to be hard work to get them down.
Where it's like, let's break off, reset and find the opportunity, find the right timing for the takedown, instead of sitting here and just grinding it out and just tiring both of us out.
It's such an interesting time for MMA. Because you're seeing people like yourself that are young and grew up with it and got to watch it on television. What was the first MMA fight that you ever saw?
I think the first one that I ever watched was John Jones, and I think it was Rashad Evans.
So you're watching it at a very high level, as opposed to a lot of the people, even John Jones. The stuff he got to see was stuff from 10 years before that. And the kids of today, kids like yourself, like you, the people growing up now, you guys have the most amazing library of champions to study in all the different forms of martial arts. And to see people like yourself that are putting it together so obsessively, and to watch it succeed over and over again inside the octagon, it's fucking cool. I love it.
It's such an exciting time.
I feel like it's the beginning of MMA as a sport. For so long it's been jujitsu guys who do a little bit of striking, or wrestlers or strikers. But now it's people putting it together and making styles and systems based upon these things. I feel like, honestly, Dean, obviously I work with him, but he's one of the best in trying to innovate. And that's why I appreciate his mind so much of just trying to make it MMA as a sport.
Whenever he, on the techniques that he has me drilling. Where I feel like, it's like Donaher innovated the no-gi game with leg locks. It's like we need to change this from being kickboxing, jujitsu and wrestling to being mixed martial arts.
Dean always has awesome input whenever we're doing the shows. And that they cut to him, he'll always point out something that I probably missed. And when you're watching these high-level people that are coming up right now, there is still the room for the specialist. There's still the room for the Anderson Silva style striking. The problem is with all fights is they all start standing up.
And if you are standing up with a guy like Alex Bejeda, you're in a world of danger. It's a terrifying world. So there are still those specialists that are so goddamn dangerous at this one aspect of the game that they can get through. And the problem with like, I always wonder, will there be, because Israel is a striking specialist too. Will there be an MMA fighter that is complete everywhere, to the point where they can stand with a world champion kickboxer?
Is that a real thing, or is that only a few freaks? Or is that, it seems like in order to be a world champion kickboxer, you have to really dedicate yourself only to striking. The timing that's involved, the distance, you're not thinking about takedowns, you're not thinking about anything else. For you to be a world champion MMA fighter, you have to be well-versed in so many different things. Do you really have the time to dedicate to get to the kickboxing level that this guy is?
And every fight starts kickboxing. Every fight starts way apart from each other. And when you got a guy like Bejeda moving towards you with that crazy style, you're like, oh, Jesus Christ. Or Adesanya, standing in front of you, moving, you're like, this motherfucker has to be three moves ahead. We haven't even started exchanging yet.
Yeah, I guess you got to hope to get those guys on their back quick. That's what I'm saying.
But it's interesting to watch the evolution of Robert Whittaker. Because, Robert Whittaker, he evolved so much more from the first fight to the second fight. He got so much better.
Yeah, I don't know. It's definitely when you have a good striker, it's hard. Obviously, like we discussed earlier with the space, you can never guess what's going to happen. But it's just like I feel like if you are a good grappler or a good wrestler and you are able to get his smack, you can be that much more effective than having a good striker in front of you.
Yes, well, you certainly can. The difference is you can control what's happening. If you can get someone and you get on top of them, right? What I always wonder is like I wonder if there are the people like Pejeta or, of that ilk, Cedric Doumbé, who I think is now going to fight for PFL. Have you ever seen that guy fight?
Holy shit. He's a glory world champion kickboxer. And he's a bad man. And he has a crazy work ethic too. He used my gym when he was in town.
And he has a coach. And they do these strength and conditioning routines. Excuse me.
They do these strength and conditioning routines where it's like one round of sprinting on one of those self-propelled treadmills. And then one round of going hard on the bag. And then one round of plyos. And they're just rotating back and forth between all these different exercises. His cardio is off the charts.
And he's like, that's it. That's the game plan. The game plan is you put heat on them with technique and athleticism and strategy. But you put heat on them, they can't keep up. Because they're not going to work that hard.
If you get to that level of fitness, like you can have this extra thing that other people just don't have. And Cedric Doumbé has that extra thing. But can he wrestle? Like? is he going to be able to stuff takedowns?
How are these guys going to deal with getting him to the ground? Because as you're moving in on him, any second, you can get knocked unconscious. You can come out of nowhere. And he might just take a wild shot at you because he doesn't want to get taken down. Maybe he says, let's see.
Let me just throw a head kick. It's like. I like watching that too. I love watching someone like yourself. I love watching these MMA fighters of today.
These full, complete artists. Get some of his highlights. Not the training highlights. But I know he's been doing a lot of MMA training. But go to his kickboxing highlights.
His kickboxing highlights are preposterous. He's a bad man.
And he's got some vicious knockouts. And he's just clever in there. He's just clever. I love the way he's fighting. That guy's.
Niki Holtzkin, who's a beast. I mean, Doumbé is constant pressure. Like you, don't get breaks with him. If you get a break, it's because he wants you to have a break. I mean, he just swarms on dudes.
I just feel like, if you look at that pressure in MMA, it's like it would be impossible to maintain with the variable of takedowns.
Look at that slip. It would be impossible. You're true. It's absolutely. Watch this when he misses.
Look at this.
Just chilling. He's actually a comedian. Oh, wow. He's a comedian in France.
Oh, wow.
It's crazy. He's one of the best kickboxers alive.
Multi-talented.
Very multi-talented. Super funny guy, too. And he, you know, if he can figure out the grappling, my question is always like, is it better to be well-rounded or is it better to be a specialist? I used to think it'd be better to be a specialist wrestler. I felt like, and I still think that to a certain extent, that at least the base beginning of amateur wrestling, those guys seem to be the toughest.
They seem to be, they have the most mental fortitude. The grind of becoming a successful wrestler is unlike any other athletic pursuit that I ever, I only wrestled in high school for one year. It was one of the hardest things in my life. It's fucking hard. But these guys are, it's particularly good at the most important thing, getting the fight to the ground and getting on top of people, right?
That's the number one thing. Those guys are the best at it. So I felt like that's like the cornerstone. But every fight does start standing up. And so then you get a guy like Mirko Krokop who figures out how to stuff takedowns, and now you're dealing with one of the most elite kickboxers alive.
And it's horrifying, right? So I always wonder, like, what is the best approach? Do you think it's to be a fully rounded mixed martial artist, putting all your time in all these different things? Or do you think maybe there's some room for the idea of like the world champion specialist?
I think it's best to focus on everything. Try to make yourself a mixed martial artist. I think if you are a specialist to begin with, say, like someone like him who's a world champion kickboxer, you probably shouldn't be investing all your time into jujitsu. at that point. You should probably stay the specialist, you know, like.
go to MMA and learn how to defend takedowns. You shouldn't be learning how to finish arm bars necessarily, you know, putting a gi on day one. It's like you don't need to learn that at this point. You should focus on what you're good at. But if you are day one, I think you should focus on everything and putting everything all together, because it's like I can have someone who is a better wrestler than me, but I can guarantee you they won't want to stay in my guard, you know.
For me especially, I think the two most important are striking and jujitsu, because they are the finishing element. So it's like those are the ways I can take people out of the fight where it's like wrestling. I can control a little bit more, but I don't have any finishing options.
Well, that's a brilliant way of looking at it. I think you're right. I think, if you're starting from the beginning, I think learning everything would be very advantageous, because you wouldn't want to think you're, you know, you wouldn't want to think you're safer than you are, and then someone takes you down at will and you're like, oh, Jesus. You're like if you just learned martial arts, like striking martial arts, and you don't know.
Maybe I should learn jujitsu.
Maybe I need to learn a little bit of this stuff.
That's probably not the moment to learn.
No. But I do think there's some room for people that, at least if you come – maybe it's like if you get to a certain age, maybe at a certain age you must go all in on all MMA. But if you could be a specialist early in your life, like if you were a specialist in striking, I think, maybe early in your life, you would have a – like if you look at all the best kickboxers and even all the best boxers, for the most part, a lot of them start when they're very young. It seems to be like striking. for some reason.
I think there's freaks. There's people that just learn it, and even when they're in their 30s, they can learn it and they get really good at it. But for a lot of people, there's something about the timing of striking that if you don't pick it up when you're really young, you don't really achieve this sort of – there's like a plateau for a lot of folks. Have you ever noticed that?
For me, I'm like – striking has never been like my – I started striking before I started jujitsu. It's just jujitsu just clicked for me. Striking. I feel like it just takes that little bit more of like athleticism, I guess, where it's like, I'm not the most athletic fighter. So it's like I feel like I can't really use my mind to just make quicker decisions in striking as much as I can in jujitsu, where it's easier to.
Well, that's a brilliant way to do it. I think, especially for your mind and your approach, striking is just a means to an end, right? You're just trying to strangle people.
Yeah, exactly. And it's like. I'm not going to say I'm never going to have a knockout, because obviously I want – that's the goal is to be able to develop power. But it's just – it's so much easier for, like a heavyweight, to just throw his fist and knock somebody out where someone – a girl like any of the 25ers, 15ers, the smaller girls. It's like it's really hard to develop that kind of power unless you're born with it.
Well, that's why Valentina is so scary. Valentina Shevchenko, when she landed that head kick on Jessica Iles, that was nasty.
Yeah, nasty knockouts like that with girls, I feel like it's just – they're not common. So when you see them, it's like you've got to have respect for that girl.
Yeah, well, Valentina, that fucking left high kick, holy shit. And she set it up to the body before that. She's so good. And she's always like light on her toes. Her style is so interesting.
It's a very – when she – she lost the title. now, obviously, and I would love to see the rematch, because the fight was awesome. But if you look at her like the best moments in her career, she's like always moving, always on her toes, perfect technique with striking.
She's rarely out of position. I feel like that's one of the things I've always admired about her. It's hard to do. what Alexa did is to be able to get her out of position and be able to capitalize on it, get her to like mentally, not be there for a split second and be able to see that opportunity.
Isn't it crazy that she did it off a spinning back kick?
I feel like Valentina was just kind of like, this chick won't go away. I thought this was going to be easier. And she started making like not the smartest decisions.
You really think that's what happened? You don't think? maybe it was just fatigue?
I think, a little bit of that, but a little bit of frustration, maybe too. Just like Valentina was winning the fight and had a lot of good opportunities. But Alexa – like Alexa was the only one walking in there, knowing that she was going to win that fight, no matter what that night.
Well, is that real? Couldn't? you know that you're going to win no matter what? You could have that attitude. You could say afterwards, I knew I was going to win, no matter what.
That's two world titles that were essentially lost to a spinning back kick. miss. You ever see Chris Weidman?
When Chris Weidman fought Luke Rockhold, he was winning the fight. It was like a really good fight. And then he throws a spinning back kick. And he misses, and Luke Rockhold takes him to the ground and beats the fuck out of him. And it was a horrible beating.
It was a really dominant performance by Rockhold. It was hard to watch. And that – he lost the title. And then you look at Valentina. Same thing.
Spinning back kick, misses. Alexa Grosso gets her, gets her back, chokes her. Crazy. It's like two world titles on a spinning back kick miss.
I feel like it was just like – I don't know. It wasn't a smart thing. It was just like a lapse of thought for her for that second where she was just like, alright, I'm going to throw this. And Alexa just capitalized. She saw the opportunity and took it.
Well, if she landed it, then it would have been something different. She has a nasty spinning back kick. She really does. So this is Wyman. They were in the middle of this fight.
Wyman was moving forward on Rockhold.
And this is – Wyman was the fucking man. This was a tough fight. Very tough fight. But Wyman's putting all this pressure on him, kicks him to the body. Looks like he's putting it to him.
Head kick.
So, right there. Right there. One – it's like he's beating him up. Like he's big brothering him, right? And he throws a lazy wheel kick.
And he gets taken down. And now Luke Rockhold's, a motherfucker on the ground. And that boy's big. Luke Rockhold's big. He made 185 for about 15 seconds.
He's well into the 200s, I'm sure, when he's fighting. He's a big fellow. Big, long, strong as shit, with crazy top pressure. And so here you go, Wyman's exhausted now, and they can't believe he's in this position. It's a terrible position to be in.
Rockhold's training with DC. He's training with Khabib. He's training with all those people down there. All those animals in AKA. Cain Velasquez.
It's just a savage soup down there. Yeah, exactly. And so Luke Rockhold, people forget. People see some of his losses and see him in the later stages of his career. When Luke Rockhold was a champ, and it's right here that he won the title, this motherfucker had staph.
He came into this fight on antibiotics. He's just gotten over staph. You know how hard it is to get over antibiotics. Antibiotics, fuck you up. And to be winning this fight in this way is fucking incredible.
And all off of Wyman missing one shot, really. Look, I mean, he's just beating the shit out of him. It's hard to watch, man. Because Wyman is, like, really kind of helpless at this point. And he's so battered from these elbows.
And he's too tough. He's so tough. the guy will never quit. And so this is one where I'm like, maybe this could have been stopped earlier. You could stop this at any second right here.
You know what I'm saying? Like, don't you think? Bro, this is crazy. This is crazy. That might have been the round.
Unbelievable punishment.
Ditch out.
I think it was the round, even. I think they keep going. What? Yeah, yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
What?
Again with that kick to the body by Wyman.
It went on after that. That's right. That's right. And it gets, oh, my God, it happens again, though. It happens again.
That's right. Last round. Oh.
How tough is Chris Wyman, that motherfucker? So tough.
Woo.
But sometimes careers can change off of one missed technique, which is one of the wildest things about MMA. Careers can change.
Okay, anything can happen at any moment. I feel like it's like you can go in and you can be a better striker than the person. You can just get caught. It can be their night. They can show up better.
It's like there's a lot of my fights where it's like I feel like I am the better fighter, but they showed up that night.
It's always a learning process, though, right? Like every experience that you have, you're putting into your mental database of how to deal with different conditions, how to deal with different thoughts that come in your head.
Oh, yeah. I feel like it's a huge learning process. And for me, I think I didn't really get a lot of regional experience. I was three and two when I came into the tough house. Wow.
So my next fight will be my 15th UFC fight.
So you go three and two, tough house, and then Liverpool.
Yeah, exactly.
That's so crazy.
Oh, my God, what a wild ride.
Yeah, so a lot of my learning experience was in the UFC.
In the UFC in front of the whole world.
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Weidman, when he knocked out Anderson Silva, that was another one of those. how did that happen, what is going on? moments. Where, like, everybody, thought that Anderson Silva was untouchable at that point. That was that moment where, you know, you realize, like, this sport is nuts.
Even the people that you think are the greatest of all time, they can get cracked and knocked unconscious. Like Leon Edwards, when he knocked out Kamaru Usman in the last round, like, what? What? Kamaru? When he lands that head kick and you see Kamaru, who's, like, one of the most durable guys that's ever lived, he gets cracked, he gets back up, he seems fine always in every fight.
And this one, he gets put out. It almost seemed surreal. Like when Tyson got knocked out by Buster Douglas. Like, what? Like, what is happening?
It's crazy. It's like, like you say, you can be the better fighter, you could win that fight nine out of ten times, and then just that one time is that night. That's what happens.
Especially at a high level, right?
Especially at a high level. It's, like, you can't make any kind of mistake. It's, like, on a regional level, say you make a little mistake, but they're not going to capitalize on it because they're just not smart enough, maybe, you know? It's, like, a lot of, or, like, whatever it is. But then once you get up to a high level, it's, like, these people are good.
If you make that one little mistake, then you're getting knocked out, you're getting subbed, you don't have those kind of opportunities. So it's definitely a learning experience there.
There's also the difference between people that are fighting that train and people that train like you train. There's a big difference. The fact that you do it constantly and consistently, it's just such an advantage, I believe. Because, you know, I mean, I know it just from training in jiu-jitsu. Even when I was training, like, four days a week, like, really regularly, I would be with those guys that are training five, six, seven days a week, and they would be getting better than me.
And I knew it. You could tell. It's in your head.
Like, how are you going to balance this? They're going to get better than you. It's impossible to stop. It's just a thing that people do. If you can dedicate enough time and focus to something over long periods of time, if you really stay true to it, you get better and better and better.
And when I see someone like yourself that does that and goes from the tough house and goes to that fight in Liverpool, to me that's, like, one of the great American success stories. That was fucking – I mean, that's really amazing. It's an amazing thing. To be this person who's a socially awkward kid, and then all of a sudden you strangle some girl in her hometown in front of the whole world, in this crazy arena, like, that's wild.
Oh, no. It's 100%. Everything is surreal about it to me. So it's like – for me it's like I'm just a kid who loves this shit. I love this sport, and that's about it.
I love showing up every day. I love going to the gym every day. And it's like even on my bad days it's better than going to any other job. Like, I love training more than anything else. Like, I can always remember.
it's like I've worked at vets offices. I worked at Chili's right before I got into the tough house, and I'm like there's – my worst days at the gym are better than any day. I had to go to one of those jobs.
Of course.
I remember, like, getting off of a shift at Chili's, getting off of a shift at the vets office, working, like, 10 hours a day, and just going straight to the gym, and there's nothing better than the feeling of the mats underneath your feet. Wow. Like, that's just what I love more than anything.
You can't beat that kind of dedication. That dedication trumps everything. Because even if you're really, really disciplined, you're enthusiastic too. Like, there's – like, discipline will get you through, like, a five-mile run, you know, but, like, it's not going to – you're not going to learn as much just with discipline. Like, you kind of – enthusiasm and discipline is really the right combination.
You can't just be disciplined and just kind of trudge through it, because the person that's more interested in it, that's more passionate about it, more excited about it, that person's more jazzed up. They're going to learn it quicker, and they're going to put it on you quicker. It's, like, it's the ultimate testing ground for ideas and focus. It really is.
I don't get people who don't train out of camp. They're like, oh, yeah, I took, like, a month off, or something. Like, what did you do?
Do you do anything other than train? Like, what is fun time?
Nothing, really.
No hobbies? You don't play golf?
I have, like – I live in Miami, so it's like I'll go out paddleboarding, sometimes, things like that. But that's really – like, training is so much of my life, and I feel like it's, like, a lot of the times I'm not training, I just don't want to do anything because I'm tired. I'm exhausted from training.
Yeah, I think Masayama said that about his karate students. I think they were talking about why they don't – I think it's Masayama. It's not that they're more noble. They're tired from training, something like that. I might have – I'm pretty sure I fucked that up.
But, yeah, if you're training all the time, like, that's why street fights seem so stupid. You know, like, oh, my God, that's, like, more training.
Like, fuck out of here.
More training with danger and weapons.
Yeah. No, I'm like – I don't get how people are so confident to get in street fights.
Crazy, right?
Like you said, without weapons. Like, that's the crazy thing to me. You don't know when somebody has a weapon.
They shoot people. People shoot people. Just be nice. It's not a fight. Exactly.
There's so many fucking loons out there, though. Have you ever had, like, a girl, come to the gym specifically to try to train with you?
To come train with me? Yeah, definitely. I train at a smaller gym, the Goat Shed in Miami.
That is a wild place that you train at.
Yeah, it is.
I love that you train there. Those fellows are wild.
Yeah, my coach, awesome. He has, like, a controlled chaos going on in there.
But they're getting good.
Oh, yeah. We –.
Everybody's getting good.
We're there at 8 a.m., 10 a.m., 11 a.m. Then I'm doing cardio after. Everybody's there focused, working. It's like – I feel like people see all the crazy shit online and don't think we're actually training. We're actually working.
But it's like, there's so much technical, like, ability that's behind all the chaos that you guys see. Oh, yeah.
No, for sure. You could see that on Instagram. But if – to the casual observer, I see what you're saying. But the infectious energy in that gym is so apparent that it comes out through Instagram. Like, that's how you know.
it's a legit gym. It's a little wild.
Bas Rutten. seminar. Bas Rutten.
Basito. He was just here.
Yeah, he was there.
He's the fucking man.
Last week, I want to say, we had a seminar.
He's the fucking man. I love that dude.
Oh, God. Some girl had her legs open. I don't know what that was all about. Don't look at that one, Jamie.
Yeah, Miami's a wild-ass place. It's actually not that close. It's not? It's clever. It's clever?
She's selling sunglasses. Oh, you click it and it's something else? Oh, she's selling sunglasses? Oh, glasses.
That's a genius. You've got to entice them, you know?
Yeah, there's a lot of dirty people out there.
Get the click bait.
What do you think about Fighters starring OnlyFans? Is that nuts?
Yeah, I don't know. It's not my thing, definitely. Obviously, I have friends who do it, things like that. But it's just, I don't know. I feel like you've got to decide what you want.
I feel like it's hard to be committed to fighting when you're into doing it. If you're taking pictures and looking cute and doing things like that, that takes time, where it's like, I don't have time for that shit.
It's not just that. But then that probably makes you as much money as fighting.
Yeah, that's also a thing about it, too. Or more money. There's a lot of girls making more money than fighting.
I'm not knocking that. If I was a girl, I'd be in my underwear, for sure. I'd be like, come see this. Give me money.
Especially when I was young.
If you're a young girl, I'm not encouraging anyone to star in OnlyFans. But I am saying, what is worse? What is worse? Someone looking at your butt? Or you having to work some stupid job for four months?
I can't remember who it was, but there's a girl. She had an OnlyFans, and she was a fighter. She tweeted once. She's like, you guys can pay me to use my body to fight people, but you don't want me to pay me to use my body on OnlyFans. Like, you guys are justifying.
Someone was telling her not to do it?
Yeah.
I don't believe in that. I don't think you should be able to tell anybody what to do with their personal life. Especially, like, social media. personal life. Like, do whatever you want to do.
You want to show everybody your butt? Go ahead. You know? I mean, the thing is, then your butt's on the internet for the rest of your life. And that's okay, too.
I think. probably there's going to be no privacy in about a decade or so. I think we're going to be like, remember back in the day when you had privacy? I think people are going to know every thought that everybody has. There's nothing hiding.
You're not going to be able to hide taxes. I think the way our lives are getting more and more interconnected with technology, we're going to come to a point in time where I don't think there's going to be anything to hide than anybody has. And that's going to be a weird time to be alive.
I swear, I think about things, and my iPhone tells me. Oh, yeah, for sure. It's like, oh, why don't you order this? I'm like, how did you even? I swear, I didn't say it out loud.
I just thought of it. And it comes up there.
I was Googling something. And then the thing that I Googled started showing up in my Instagram feed.
Very specific. It's a very specific thing. I'll tell you what it is. It's a 1968 Bullitt Mustang. Tell me how specific that is.
That's really fucking specific. That never showed up in my Instagram feed before. But I was Googling the scene from the movie Bullitt. You ever heard of the movie? Yeah.
It's Steve McQueen movie. It's filmed in San Francisco. It's the greatest car chase scene ever. And Steve McQueen has this 1968 Highland Green Mustang. And they're going through this.
See, if you can find it. It's fucking wild. It's a wild scene. And this is 1968.. Cars drove like shit.
So I Googled this. I watched this chase scene. And I'm looking at, like, builds that people have made, where they've made replicas of that car. Including this company called Revology that makes this sick Mustang. And they make, like, a new 1968 Mustang.
Instead of it being a 1968 Mustang, it's like a 2023 1968 Mustang. But with modern technology in it. So this is Steve McQueen and this dude getting this wild chase scene in San Francisco. And it goes on for a while. This is when movies didn't have music playing, when shit was happening.
Look at this. It's just the sounds of the car. Steve McQueen's face. And now they'd be fucking this up.
But back then they knew how to make a fucking movie. But look at that car. Look at that car. That's a 1968 Mustang. That's a 68 Charger.
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