Huge Wins Happen One Small Step at a Time

This is the Ramsey show, thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life. We're taking your calls, walking you through practical steps so that you have some hope and some action items. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr.

Let's sing and dance, Ken.

Sing. and... Okay, great. I'm down for it. I'll do the singing.

I can't dance. I'm an incredible dancer. You got good rhythm? No, I'm terrible.

Yeah, I've never seen you dance.

It's very intentional.

Yeah, I'm terrible. I mean, I'm really bad.

Yeah, I am. I don't know what the deal is. I'm embarrassing.

Yeah. I can catch a ball, throw a ball. I cannot dance to music.

I feel bad for my wife.

Yeah.

Me too. I just see a guy kind of glide through a room, and you just think, I'm sorry, honey.

Which is why I watched Dancing with the Stars for years, because I felt so bad for Stacey that I couldn't dance, that I caved in and watched that.

Yes, I gave that to her. Atrocity. Here's what this looks like, honey. Sorry.

Yeah. Sorry, I can't do it, but I'll watch other guys do it. You know, it's kind of one of those deals. All right, we're going to have some fun today. We always do.

Yeah. Hi, guys. So my question is, well, you know, I've watched a few segments of your Ramsey show and heard a few things about other individuals who have a similar situation that I do. And I'm in a blended family, and we both have adult children. And I find that my lovely husband tends to financially support his adult children a little more so than I feel is necessary.

And.

Yeah.

You're super talking around this with my lovely husband, who's just a little bit more than.

Sure, sure. Well, he... I don't agree with the situation right now that his decision on, or his lack of a decision, he's not sure what he wants to do. So he's not sure if he wants... So his son recently got into a situation where he was schemed into opening up an Amex card, taking out $10,000..

How old's his son?

His son is 20.

Well, I don't see where the big mystery is on how he got an Amex card. They let 16-year-olds fill that crap out. So let's get over the mystery of how he got the Amex card. He probably applied for it in two minutes.

And let's call a little bit of bullcrap on.

Now, here's where this gets tricky, Doc. We've got his kid, his boy, but I'm assuming you guys are joint finances, as we would teach and recommend, Julie. You guys are in the same bank account, so it's our money, not his money and my money. Is that right?

We've got separate accounts. So he has. the house that we live in is under his name. It was his house prior to us getting married. And so we have everything.

What's the open, honest situation look like as it relates to this HELOC thing? Have you told him everything? you're telling us? How you don't like it? Yes.

I have told him, and I said, if he decides to do that, then we need to sign a post-nup that that belongs to him, should anything happen between us.

Yikes.

Julie. What are you doing? Wow.

A post-nup.

Yeah. You can't triple stamp or double stamp. Here's the deal. You have to go all... You haven't fully been honest with him.

Right. Right. No. Yeah. I agree.

I agree. You and your husband live like me and Ken do, except y'all share a bed.

I got an uncontrollable shiver here.

I'll Venmo Ken money if we go out to dinner. And if Ken bought something and I was going to participate, I would help pay for that. Like, you see what I'm saying? It's ridiculous how y'all set it up and expect it to work united. So of course he's going to make his own money decisions because he's caring for his own money.

You have to be honest with that. And can I say something too, to add to this list, Doc? I think that she's forgetting that she's a very different person than he is. And had they had kids together, they would still see differently on how they should parent.

Absolutely.

And so this is part of the issue too. She's coming in with, well, I've got a past, my kids are older, his are older, and I think John's hit something here, Julie, but I think you've got to realize you guys don't see parenting the same way.

Oh, no, not at all.

And let me just say this, Stacey and I have only been married to each other for 26 years, and our oldest just graduated high school and we're having conversations all the time about, as we look back on his 18 years, how very different we still see things. And we've learned how to parent on the same page, but rarely, John, are we on the same line.

This morning, I said, I'm going to do X with my son and my wife said, no, you're not. And I was like, well, I guess we're going to have to. But here's the thing. We have a context for that relationship. You don't.

We've been married for a little over three years, but together over 10.

Okay. How y'all have avoided some of these harder conversations, I don't know. Did this 21-year-old live in your home 10 years ago?

Yes. Well, 10 years ago, we weren't living together. We started living together in 2020 and then we got married in 2021..

But still, he's 17.

Yeah. Once you get into the post-nups and this is yours, but that's mine, you're in a whole new, your relationship moves to even thinner ice, and it's already on.

Right.

Are there other things that he does that you've lost respect in? It can't just be this.

No, it's not. Yeah.

You need to be honest with him.

Yes. Yeah.

He sounds like a clueless husband who's plugging along, trying to keep his kid smiling. And that's not always the best gifts we can give our kids, but he doesn't realize that he's losing his wife.

Right.

Is that true?

At times, yeah. I try to get over it here and there because I...

How's that working out for you? Just get over it?

Well, it's a temporary fix. Yes. I can see that. Yes.

It's a Xanax. It doesn't fix the problem.

Right. Right.

And so I think you need to sit down and say, I, not you, I am struggling in this marriage. I'm losing respect. I'm struggling with this and this, and this and this. And, by the way, the money with your 21-year-old son is just the cherry on top of the sundae. But there's bigger issues in your relationship now.

I feel like, John, this is old school, define the relationship, like high school style. They actually need to be married all the way through with everything. That's the bigger conversation, Julie. That's what the doctor's telling you, and I agree 100%. I know you called about a $10,000 potential loan on the house, and you just got a whole buffet of things you got to deal with, but I think that's the play.

I was sitting there. I was talking to... What's happening is. I'm getting married on May 17th, 2025, and I've been talking to people about joining bank accounts with my fiancée. It's hit or miss.

Yeah. Let me ask a question on that. Are you saying that you're asking, should we join bank accounts now, as in we're engaged, or... Oh, okay. So this is not...

No. I was thinking about... I mean, if we're getting married, we might as well before everything comes out on the table.

So I would tell you, I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got engaged ended up getting married.

Okay.

And I wouldn't have a job if everyone who got married stayed married. And so I would tell you your impulse is right to absolutely join checking accounts. And the best... I can give you the data that says it's going to be better for your marriage long-term and it forces you to come to the table and join...

Join bank accounts while they're engaged?

Oh, no, no, no. That's what he's asking. But I'm going to tell him, don't do it until you get married.

I agree. Okay, good. I didn't know where you were going with that.

So I get what you're saying. Like, we're going to get married, so we might as well do all this stuff up front. I would wait until you have that legal protection before you start joining stuff up.

Okay. Yeah. She doesn't know the extent. Like, I've been listening to you guys for the past year now, so like I paid everything off except my house. And I'm like, I don't want her to know how much is in retirement yet.

Don't start keeping secrets.

Well, I sold off my company about six years ago, and I made a lot of money and then put it in an investment, you know, towards my retirement. So I was talking to her the other day, and I was telling her, that was the other thing. I was like, I want us to be retired by 55.. And she just started laughing at me. And I forgot what she said.

Let's go back. Because we didn't give you a chance to answer the real, why do you not want her to know how much money you got stacked away?

I mean, I've just been kind of weird about it. When I talk to other people about it, you know, some of my predecessors when I started my own company before I sold it, they were just kind of, you know, don't let her know until it's a done and over, you know, until we're married.

That's a cop out.

Yeah, that's nonsense.

You. just, let me tell you what you just said to me. You just said, you said, I said, why? And you said, well, because some other guys that sold their companies, they said not to. So it's all their fault, Ken.

Uh, I think, uh, last relationship, cause we have, you know, kids from separate, uh, separate parents. So the last relationship didn't go too well. and think, you know, I wasn't married. So there was no legal obligation except my son there.

So you think going into a new marriage with a bunch of money and a bunch of secrets is going to be the better path?

No, you're, you're right on that.

That's like, that's like, man, my last diet didn't work out. So this time I'm just going to put pizza in the back seat all the time. Like it doesn't, it doesn't make any sense what you're saying. Like. the only path forward is to be completely honest and integrity.

Uh, and funds and my bank account, since I paid everything off.

How much do you work?

Just total bro.

1.

Okay.

And she has no clue of that.

Uh, she knows a little bit. She just doesn't know how much I have in neutral funds, investments.

How old are you?

36.

That's, that's a good chunk of money. It's not, it's not a bajillion dollars.

And she already said yes, without knowing how much money you got stacked. So I don't know what your fear is. I mean, she's not a gold digger. Yeah. Right.

Are you scared that she actually likes you?

That might be the issue too.

Bro, why don't you just let her love you?

Yeah, that's, that's true too.

I think that's it.

And that's the issue. I tell you right now, if you think you're better than her, cause, you sold a company and made $1.3 million, you might as well just break this engagement off now before it costs you half of that. Cause you're going to lose it. Cause this relationship won't make that sort of ego arrogant, um, approach to love and connection and vulnerability. It won't make it.

Yeah.

I just, uh, well, I know I love her or I would never propose to her, cause I've never proposed to anybody. I mean, I do know that and I definitely know I'm not better, or she's a way better person than me. But you know.

Well, we knew that without even meeting her.

So hey, here's what love looks like. Love looks like, this is all of me. Do you still love me? And you hope that they say that back. And you'll take that risk for the rest of your marriage.

You're exactly probably right on that, or stay inside me. That's the way she is.

So let's, let's circle back to the initial question. Is she on board? I know you get, you've been out polling people, and John and I are the latest people to poll.

You can quit polling people. Stop polling.

That's a, that's a good point. But, by the way, we're honored to be polled. We, John and I, love few things more than our own opinions. So, so that's fine. But where's she at on joining finances?

We both are there. Okay, good. And she thinks it's a great idea. The only thing she brought up to me and we were going to talk about paying it off this week is she had some medical debt, like seven grand. So she was scared that someone would put a freeze on the bank account.

Okay. Does she have any money to pay that off?

We had been working together. I definitely make the more money part. So I've been trying to, you know, let her do her own thing. But I was more than willing to pay it off and she doesn't feel right with me paying it off.

Neither do I. Yeah.

If she's behind you and it's about to go to collections and it's going to collapse from things and you've got $50,000 in a checking account right now, I can see you helping out your fiance. But if she's paying bills...

Well, every time I asked her about it, she was, uh, no, I want to pay it off myself.

Okay. Didn't honor that. Yeah. And here's the deal. If, for some reason, Joe, she doesn't get it paid off, but she's trying and you guys get married, then it's a we thing, and then you can do what John's saying.

You're probably right.

I know I'm right. That's my situation.

Let me tell you this. There's some research on this. It's called choice psychology. Yes. Essentially, our brains cannot process.

Yeah, I do.

And you ask so many opinions that, no matter what you do, your brain is like, oh, you should've done the other one. You should've done the other one. Are you right? Is this good? I don't think it's good.

That's a good call.

I want you to have one or two mentors that you trust deeply. And I want you to begin to trust yourself, man. You've done well up to this point.

He needs one of those old cloth bracelets that were hot several years ago. WWJD. We just change it to Joe.

And trust.

What would Joe do? Right. Joe, you got a brain. I love it. The Doc's laying down, man.

You ready to rock?

Good. I can't tell.

Don't join bank accounts until you're married, and that day, join it all up, take care of your debts, and you'll move on into the future.

And tell her how much money you have, Joe. She'll be fine.

All right, don't move.

Couple, quick messages, and we'll be right back with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

Why Refi is not licensed by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. Why Refi is not authorized by the New York State Department of Financial Services to service any New York loans. Funding may not be available in all states.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So how many of you out there are feeling like you got to stay on the sidelines in this whole real estate situation? You're looking at rates and you're going, should we sell? Should we list and sell our house, or is it time for us to jump in and buy? And that's a legitimate question in today's real estate market.

Better than I deserve. Thank you.

Oh, there we go. We got a Ramsey Solutions, Ramsey Show fan there. So why are you so good that you had to call us today? What can we help with?

Well, life is good, debt is bad.

Yes.

So I am currently in baby step two, the snowball, my consumer debt, car debt. Then I have about $88,000 in student loan debt spread out over 13 different loans.

How much in consumer debt do you have? Let's go back a step.

Consumer debt, about $7,500.

And what is that in?

Various credit cards.

Okay. Okay. Keep going.

And then I have a new vehicle we got earlier this year. that's $26,000..

Okay.

I do plan on having the consumer debt paid off by the end of the year. The student loans are currently in an income-based repayment. Those are on pause. at the moment. I don't have a payment on those.

What's this vehicle?

It's a Suburban. We were blessed. We have a baby coming next month, so we needed to upgrade it in a vehicle.

From what to a Suburban? What did you have before?

We had a truck.

Is this first baby, second baby, third baby? What are we talking about?

Fourth baby. Oh. After many years, of ... Our other children, the youngest is eight.

Okay. Did you put any money down on the Suburban?

We did.

So what kind of equity is in the car? $26,000.. What's it worth and what do you owe?

It's probably worth $28,000.

Okay. So you're not much equity. Okay. All right. How can we help?

I got the car and the snowball and the consumer debt kind of out of grasp, but these 13 different student loans is just .

Well, the number's the number. Whether you got 13,, 23,, 300 loans, the number's the number, and the number you need to focus on is the $88,000.. So, even though it's spread out over the 13 and you got this income repayment plan ... I

actually like it, spread out over 13, because it gives you a bunch of small wins. It's digestible.

But either way, my point is either way, you've got to knock them all out. So I don't know what's paralyzing you there.

I guess just the fear of seeing the 13 different ones. So I guess maybe I should look at it as like consumer debt goes the smallest to largest on those.

That's it.

Yeah, it's a snowball.

Okay.

And I mean, that's the reason the snowball exists that way, because most people look at like they'll do interest rates, and this is why most people fail paying off their debts. They look at interest rates, their student loans might have the lowest, and they'll have an $88,000 hill to climb. They'll put 3,000, 3,000, and then they'll have given six grand of their life away, and that's still have an eight in front, right? It'll still be $80,000.. And you're like, this stinks, I'm done with this, versus you have 13 loans, with $3,000.

Okay.

What's your lowest? Let's just walk through this. Give me the lowest number on the 13 loans.

Let's round it up to 2,400.

All right, so that's your first one. So you think, oh, well, I'm going after the $7,500 in credit cards. Well, I'm sorry, those credit cards are spread out too.

How many credit cards do you have?

Six.

Okay. Yeah, this is a snowball. Let me give you an example. It's a spreadsheet. It's a spreadsheet or a whiteboard, or a piece of paper, and we go smallest loan to largest loan.

Can I tell you what I want you to do? I want you to do what me and my wife did. We got one of those, we got a bunch of construction paper, like children, and we cut them into, we made a paper chain, and we hung it in our bedroom. I hung it in my bedroom. She was not a huge fan of that, but I just need you to see it every day.

Yes, it does.

Yeah, get it out of your head, and get it on paper, and look at it, and say, okay, I got 20 of these little things. They get smaller, they get small, and they get bigger, but we're going to get the small ones down. And you're going to have two or three left, and they're big, and they're going to suck, and you're going to get them knocked out.

What's your income, and what do you do?

I'm a delivery driver. I make $22 an hour, 40 hours a week.

Is your wife working outside of the home?

No. Well, she was starting to start a new career, then the baby surprised us, and at the moment, she's not.

Okay. Well, the only thing I'm going to add to this equation is you need more income, and you're only working 40 hours a week, and I understand your wife is pregnant, and that's a conversation between you two on that deal, but I know if I was you, I'd be driving, or I'd be doing something else to the tune of 22 or more dollars an hour, and let's double my income, because if I double my income, I double the rate at which I'm paying off. these loans. Make sense?

Yes, it does.

And here's the deal. John gave you a great prescription here on the chain, the piece of paper, however, you want to do it, but you've got to get some more income right now, and you work as many hours as you possibly can, physically, emotionally, and relationally, what your responsibilities are with the kids, but you can do more, and you need to be doing more, and I mean like right away, because more relief comes when you start knocking those debts off, and every time you start kind of moving those payments, rolling those payments over, and the bigger the payment gets, as I knock off each smaller debt, and all of a sudden, I look up six months, 12 months from now, and I'm making some serious progress.

Got it.

All right. You fired up, or are you still overwhelmed?

The motivation's there.

Okay.

Kind of taken back by the call, but the motivation's there. I want to, you know, another baby. You know, we got to start thinking about our retirement. We're getting, you know, we're almost 40, so.

There you go. I want you to keep these two words in your mind, little wins.

That's right. That's why, by the way, Dave came up with that concept that really took off baby steps, because what he figured out in such a genius way of listening to his audience many decades ago is this idea that I get that little win through a baby step, because I realize I can do that.

And it feels good.

It feels good. I can pay off $1,200.. I don't know if I can pay off $200,000..

Yeah. You can't just pay off $200,000.. No. I'll pay off $200,000.. I'll pay off $700,000..

That's right. Yeah. That's the magic. Good stuff. Alfred, hang in there, buddy.

Thanks for having me on. You bet. I am currently 982K in debt. Whoa. I got two mortgages on that, which makes up the large percent of that, but it is still roughly about 100K in consumer debt.

Okay. Give us the details. Let's stop right here, so we know what we're dealing with. You are in the Detroit area. Where is the rental house?

Seattle.

How much do you owe on it, and how much could you sell it for today? I need those three answers.

Okay. It's Seattle, 0475.. Okay. I believe I can. ...

All right. I like that number, 650.. Okay. And you owe 475 on it. So your question to us is, should I sell it and take the profit from that and put it to my debt?

Yeah. I may be able to make it out of that sale and straight into Baby Step 4.. I think that might even give me enough for my savings and to pay off the rest of my debt.

I would hang up with us right now and call a realtor in Seattle and have that house listed within the next 30 minutes, if I could.

The question is because I have tenants currently living in it, and I'm not sure how that works.

Well, tell us. What do you got? What's your agreement with them?

Well, we have a 12-month agreement that started on April 1st. April 1st, I believe. Just off the top of my head. Twelve-month agreement, and I told him that if he were to make the payments on ... because he wanted to do 24 months.

I think you got to figure out what Seattle's, what Washington's rules are on tenant law, and are you allowed to sell the property even though it's under contract, and how much notice you have to give them, things like that.

It's worth paying a lawyer, somebody who knows what they're doing, because things change. And I totally get the conviction here to not do these people wrong, but I think there's a middle ground here. I don't think. just ... let's say that you find out that you can just willy-nilly sell it.

The right thing to do, yeah.

And I would try both. See what your options are legally, but still be, ... and by the way, you're a good person. That's why you called. So I'm not worried about you doing something wrong to these folks.

This is just me looking at a quick look on the internet. It says to sell a rental property with tenants in it. in the state of Washington, you have. ... you can wait for the tenant's lease to expire or negotiate with a tenant regarding early move out.

So there's your option, looks like.

So maybe you give them, say, hey, I'll give you a free month, but we're going to need to cut this thing short because I got to sell this property. My finances aren't what I thought they were here in my new town. Or you honor your 12-month agreement, and you learn a long, harrowing, frustrating lesson. And hopefully this is a good tenant. It's a good person, a character, and they pay every month.

I know it's a ignorant thing to say, but I do trust the tenant will pay because he seems like a good tenant that I have in there now. Another option was possibly a lease option, where I get a large chunk of change down now to lock in the price at a later date. So that way, the big chunk of change helps me pay off the debt and then. ...

Can I just interrupt you? Yes. You've tried to do these little whoop-de-do's and rigamaroos, and that's what got you in this exact situation. Just don't get cute with it. Just let the lease roll out or negotiate with the guy and then sell the property when it's free and clear.

Yeah. Are you really tight as it relates to your margin right now, and that's why we're doing this? Or can you make some momentum, keep going on the snowball while we're waiting to figure out this purchase? ... I mean, excuse me, the sale of this property?

We're not tight. It is ... We make $250 a year.

My point is, you can still make progress, and what John and I want you to know is you need to be attacking the debt while we're figuring out. ... Don't just put it on cruise control and wait for the sale of this house to make everything clean. Make sense?

Yeah. I was watching a different podcast, and I saw a brand deal on there, the Theovon podcast, and that convinced me to sell my truck.

Good for you. Wow. Way to go.

Yeah. I'm still waiting for the check to clear, but that's an extra $21,000. I'm able to drop down on the debt.

So then you got it. You're on this, man. Thanks for the call. By the way, I'm going to highly recommend, since Rachel Cruz is in the kids book thing now, you should, after the whoop-dee-doos and rigamaroos, I feel like that's your next installment. It's kind of your own, Dr.

And the kangaroos. That's right.

Whoop-dee-doos and rigamaroos.

Ken the kangaroo.

If I could have a title character, I would really appreciate it.

I'm going to roll with Ken, the kangaroo and the rigamaroos. I love it. It's going to be obnoxious, insane, financial hula hoops people find themselves in.

It had a ring to it. I wanted to call that out. We'll put it on the table for John's next few product lines. All right. Next is Catherine in Milwaukee.

Hello. I've been watching you guys forever. I love you and also listening. And I have every one of your books.

Catherine, we love you.

We're going to make you the head of the fan club, rather. We appreciate you.

We're up against the clock.

I have all of your books. You guys are amazing. Thank you.

We've got about two minutes to be amazing for you. What's your question?

Thank you. I actually have three questions. Uh-oh. Two of the questions are regarding my niece and my nephew. I became guardian over them two years ago when my sister passed.

No. Not that much. Okay. You're telling me they have $175,000 when they turn 18?.

Yes.

Yeah. They're good.

Okay. They're good. The 15-year-old actually is going to do what I did, and I keep telling him to live his life, be his best person. When I was their age, he's 15, he's actually going to be starting college. accelerated courses.

Well, here's a great gift you can give him. If you can steward your niece and nephew, if you can steward them to still not just rely on this money, but you steward them through this process, and then they get through college debt-free, they have a $175,000 launching pad to start their life with. Yeah. Can you imagine? No.

I mean, it was an amazing gift that she left them. That's right. And they want to honor her. Yes.

And you do too, and they are really lucky that they got you as their guardian. You're an amazing woman.

Yeah, awesome. Catherine, what an awesome story. Love it. Great, great call there. Paying it forward.

Hey, John. Hey, Ken. How are you? I am looking for permission to build a second home in the mountains. My wife and I have been super intentional for over a decade, and I think we're in a position to do it to pay cash.

Well, we can't give you that. We can walk through the decision-making process. So did I hear you say you've got the money set aside right now to build this house cash?

Correct.

Okay. Do you have any other debt?

No.

Okay. What's your net worth?

$3.

And how much is this house going to cost?

$1.

Yeah.

I would be with a builder tomorrow.

I know. I don't see. Is there some fear, or is this doubt? I mean, what is the holdup with the two of you? And are you both on the same page on this?

We're both savers, I think, and it's been a long road to get to this point. It's a dream we both have. We both want to do it. We just don't want to be stupid at this point.

Yeah, but what evidence do the two of you have that this purchase is stupid?

Not a lot, which is why we're going forward with it.

Oh, okay. So I was going to say not a lot. I'd love to know what's on the list.

Yeah. I would tell you. the thing we can give you permission to do is sometimes you have a dream and a goal of something for five years, ten years, and you get there and you realize that life has shifted. And so you have permission, even after dreaming and hustling for this for a decade, you have our permission to not do it. If you all got here and you're like, you know what?

Yeah.

But if you want to build this house and you've been saving and you got the money, go build the house, man. Yeah.

Here's a fun exercise. Aaron, why don't you guys just envision for a couple of days, just literally go, okay, you know what? We're not going to do this. We're going to just bank the 1.2.. So what would you do with the 1.2 if we didn't spend it on the house?

Put it back in the market. Yeah.

And many years from now, would you be wondering about this house in the mountains? Or would you be so excited with all the money you made off the 1.2?.

I would definitely rather have the house and all the memories and the proximity to all the things we enjoy.

Then I think that's how I play this. Every time doubt starts to creep up. in a situation like this, I would flip through and go, okay, if I let doubt win here, I doubt whether or not we should spend the 1.2, because I think this is doubt. And I think if I start to doubt that, I'm going to go, all right, let's look at the alternative. If I don't spend it on something I've dreamed for, by the way, you guys have worked really, really hard.

Yeah, for sure.

So then, I think you have two conclusions. We worked hard. We saved. We got 1.2.. And we did it because we wanted this dream house in the mountains.

And can I tell you, I'm a nervous spender too, okay? Can I tell you how I make this decision? This is not a Ramsey thing. This is not a math thing. This is a Deloney get out of jail card, okay?

Yeah.

And let's say, the market implodes. And this house is only worth half. And you sell it. You're forced to sell it someday. You're still getting $600,000..

And you got the memories to boot with it.

Yeah, it's definitely not a financial thing.

There you go.

Good.

Kind of an emotional, you know, like you said, we worked so hard to get to this point.

Hey, did you grow up with? not a lot?

I would say middle to lower.

Okay. Because sometimes second homes are for those people. And we're not those people. Or million-dollar properties, yeah, those kind of people buy million-dollar properties, not us. And sometimes we have these limiting identities that we tag ourselves with.

I got another question on this, John. Is there some type of psychology condition where this is the first big, giant, this is the first purchase that's this big for them, I'm guessing. Is that right, Aaron? This will be the most expensive thing you've ever paid for in one month?

For sure. For sure. Our primary residence. we purchased for under $200,000.. Okay.

I'm wondering, is there some just basics? It's a million dollars. It's just part of the, this is the biggest thing ever. Yeah. He's not been there before.

And Dave has helped me, because I would have never been there. And Dave has helped me personally with sticking to the ratios.

Yeah, so it's just normal. It's normal. The point is, this is very normal, Aaron, because your brain has never processed $1.2 million in the form of a purchase. That's 10, that's almost 10x what you've spent before.

Do you have kids?

I do.

You got their college funds funded? I mean, I'm trying to think of anything else that down the road you might go, oh no, I wish we had this cash.

Yeah, so first two, either out of school or have Fulbright scholarship. The youngest is still in high school, but yeah, we're fine.

Hang up the phone and tell your wife, hey, we're building a house. You know how fun, man.

Aaron, this is a deal where there are people that live in this YOLO world. You only live once and they're making foolish decisions and they are rationalizing those foolish decisions based on this. But this is the reverse. This is the chance to live a life that you can reminisce on, not regret. And I'm telling you, if you don't build this house, you will get to the end of your journey and you will not reminisce.

I mean, the point is, is that a place to make memories with your family? That's it.

That's what this is about. Aaron, man, we're proud of you. My goodness. You don't need permission at all. You don't answer to anyone.

Good on you, man.

Wow. Fantastic stuff. That's the dream right there. By the way, it's not uniquely American. That is just the human dream we just heard.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, good folks. It's Deloney. And with back to school madness on deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise and date nights and counseling and all the other things that make our life even worth living.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So glad that you are with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr.

Liz asks, I've been married for three years. My husband has a history of making large impulse buys. Two weeks before our wedding, he bought a new pickup truck on a whim. And since then, he's made several smaller impulse buys, like hunting equipment. Recently, we had a disagreement because we had started to put some money away each month to eventually purchase some land.

He's just a big old boy.

Yeah.

How big a boy are you, right?

He's a toddler in a grown man's body. Yeah. Yep. That's frustrating. Ken, what do you think, man?

Well, we have to retreat back to the budget discussion. You have a bigger problem going on, and I'm sure you can speak to his behavior thing. But I think in her situation, it's her husband. She can't be his counselor, his therapist. She's got to be his wife.

When I put her as the adult and I'm going to act like a child. Right. Right. Yeah. And this – he has a history of making large impulse buys.

Tough stuff, but it can be done. But you've got to draw some lines in the sand and appreciate the question. All right, let's go to Fairmont, Minnesota, and Eric is there. Eric, how can we help?

Hey, thanks. Long-time listener to the Dave Ramsey Show. So my wife and I are kind of in a tough spot here, and we need some advice. Big believers of Dave Ramsey's principles. To make a long story short, our son, who's three, may be ineligible for insurance later in life based on some things we're going to have to have done soon.

Okay. So I'm sorry you're going through this. What's happening? And do I hear you properly that they do expect a 30- to 40-year lifespan and beyond? Is that what you're hearing?

So we don't know. We don't have appointments scheduled, but we need to make some appointments to get him in to see what's going on. He basically broke his leg. They saw some spots on his bones, and they did a full-body X-ray and found lots of spots. And they've said it could be one of two things.

Okay.

I'm going to keep my opinions on life insurance companies to myself, because it's disgusting.

The very fact that what's the point of having insurance if life insurance won't actually take care of it? It's just the biggest racket.

Anyway, so let me ask you this, Eric. What's the purpose of life insurance? Why do you and I have life insurance on ourselves?

It's basically so that if something happens to me, it is replacing income for my family. That's right. You know, that kind of thing.

And so I think you have probably done what I would do and gone to DEFCON 1, worst-case scenario.

That's right.

Because, as a dad, when somebody tells you your 3-year-old may have fill-in-the-blank, we instantly want to solve it and fix it and cover every variable as quickly as we can. And we go way into the future. And the scientific or the pathology there is called anxiety. We're trying to solve things in the future that haven't even happened yet. And so can I speak real frank?

Sure.

If he is given a diagnosis of 20 or 30 years and he passes away as a 20 or 30-year-old young man, he won't need life insurance.

Sure.

If he is given a, okay, this is actually cancer, and we can cure it, and you're going to have a long life of 60 or 70 years old, he may need to know. as a young man, I'm not eligible for this, so I'm going to have to live differently. That's right. I'm going to have to plan and save differently, because this particular thing isn't going to be, but he's got a 60-year runway if he actually needs it at that point. You see what I'm saying?

And practically speaking here, just jumping in real quick, Eric, you don't have to do any of this, I agree with John, but if you had the money and you had the margin, it would be better off starting a mutual fund for him. now that he eventually takes over, and that's becoming self-insured. Makes sense? So that if you teach this boy how to invest, how to save, stay out of debt, that to me takes care of this, just on a practical note.

And so I've worked with parents with children with special needs for my whole career, and one of the things they do early on when a young child has special needs is they say, here's how the world's going to work for you in your particular situation, and they begin teaching that way. And so what Ken just said is wise, if, when your 3-year-old becomes 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 and you say, hey, here's the set of cards you were dealt, I opened a mutual fund for you, and so we're going to start putting this much in it for the rest of your life, because this is what you're going to leave to your family down the road, that's going to be your responsibility as your dad. But I want to challenge you to stay present. That's right. Stay with your 3-year-old little boy and your wife right now, in this moment, and let those things unfurl as they unfurl.

It may be 10% that he develops something later, but it's 90% that he won't. That's what I'm hanging on to. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I was just working on our baby steps. My husband and I have finished paying off our debt. But I'm wondering what happens if you're a cosigner on a loan, if that's included in your snowball or if we can officially move on to step 3..

What's the agreement you made with your kid?

So it was that he was going to be paying it. And, obviously, we did not find all of these solutions on how not to have a student loan debt before he went to school. But so it's expected that he's going to pay it. I just don't know if that should be our next debt that we focus on or if we can move on and get out of that debt part of it.

Well, you just answered your own question, didn't you, Jennifer?

Well, what if he doesn't pay? I guess maybe that's where I'm feeling stuck.

Do you think he's not going to pay?

If he doesn't, I don't think he's the most responsible child of my children. How about that?

How much did you sign for?

It's about $25,000.

How old is he?

He's 22.

Is he living with you?

But he's not.

Are you still funding his life?

I am not.

Has there been a conversation about this?

I'm sorry?

Has there been a conversation between you and Dad with him about, hey, congrats, buddy, you got out of school. What's that repayment plan look like? What's the conversation been?

Yeah, he's very wishy-washy about it. He's sort of like, yeah, I know, but he doesn't make any plans. You know, obviously, since he's just gotten out of school, nothing has technically been due yet. But, you know, you get the six-month grace where he should be paying it anyways. So I'm just concerned that we're getting farther and farther away, and now we're going to be on the hook for this money.

All of those things are correct.

So I guess I'm just wondering, you know, like I said, we have everything paid except our house.

Can you write a check for $25,000 right now?

No.

How long would it take you to pay that off?

That would probably take us a while, because, you know, our income and our expenses, we're still trying to get more income. We're working on that too. But that would probably take us a while.

I mean, you're right on every count. You signed for somebody that you knew didn't have integrity and you felt bad as a mom, for whatever reason, or a dad or whoever signed for it. And you all felt some parent guilt, and some this and some that. Maybe he'll go to college and maybe he'll learn. And you kept signing, because you have to do that every year, and you kept signing.

Right.

And so here's what I'm – he is, as a 21-year-old, is burning his relationship with his parents, and he doesn't even realize it.

He definitely takes advantage of it. I know that.

But he's been taking advantage of you guys your whole life, because you all have let him. Fair?

Absolutely.

Yes. So it's one of those like –.

You make a lot of excuses for him.

I mean, yeah. So if you had $25,000, I'd probably tell you just pay the stupid thing off and have your lesson learned and never give him another penny as long as he lives. You don't have that. And so the reality is you all are going to have to put on your debt snowball, probably.

Yeah. I got to jump in here.

Or let it go to default.