If You Follow the Trends You’ll Fall for the Traps

Thank you.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically, winning with your money, winning in your work and winning in your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number, 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour, and we're here for you.

That's a great two-fold plan right there.

That's my goal when I'm on the Ramsey Show. I needed to tell James. It's just help you make more money. That's my role as a Ramsey personality. When you need more money, I would try to help you figure that out.

There's very few financial situations that wouldn't be helped by making more money.

In today's inflationary kind of environment, everybody's sitting there going, I need some more money.

Even those that are debt-free are going, hey, I still have aggressive financial goals. How am I going to do this? There you go. Ken can help on the work and career money side.

The more money, baby. That's what we're about. Let's go to Sonia to get us started, or Sonia. I never know.

Sonia, Sonia. We'll find out.

I'm going to go, Sonia. Let's go to Syracuse, New York. Is it Sonia? Oh, I hit the wrong number. I apologize, guys.

We're doing great so far. Hold on.

There we go. Sonia or Sonia? Which is it?

Sonia.

Sonia. Oh, I was wrong. Dang it.

If I had a nickel for every time, Ken was wrong.

Hey, Sonia. How can we help today?

So long. story short is, I am a stay-at-home mom of two, and for the last eight years, my job has been my babies and taking care of them. My husband is an amazing provider that we were able to live off of his income, but we are stuck in an apartment thanks to the economy and the housing market. And I am now able to enter the workplace again. I started being able to realize all the things I've been doing, that I've been wanting to do for the past eight years.

Are you talking about sewing?

Sewing garments.

Yeah. Okay. So it's a YouTube channel focused around sewing and crafts, and you want to just have a fun kind of entertaining way to educate people.

Yeah. And there's a whole vocabulary on sewing clothes and using the right tools and techniques and things that I don't think anyone's using, for, you know, like, oh, this is what this word means. Oh, this is how that works. Yeah. And things of that nature.

Well, are there other YouTube channels that have massive followings and seem to be doing well in that world?

Yes, but, again, they all use jargon and vocabulary that is assumed to be already known.

Well, here's, so a couple of things before we get into this. You're looking to make how much money, because the way you presented this question is we want to get out of our apartment and in this economy right now, which we're seeing this every day, it's harder and harder to get a home. So how much money would be a number that you guys have discussed, you've got in your head to say, all right, this would help us move from apartment to house at some point in time. What's that number?

Any. Anything.

Well, it's not any. No. There's a specific goal that you have to have.

I mean, is it $20,000?

The thing is, we have a big down payment already. We have close to 20%, including closing cost, emergency funds, things of that nature.

Okay, great.

We have close to all of that already. We have, right now, our savings and all of those things, the giant pot is close to 80 plus thousand.

Okay. So then what do we need the additional money for?

Because I want to give my children braces and I want to be able to have a little bit of money to buy fabric.

I get it. So here's the deal. I don't want to belabor the point and get you stuck. I'm not trying to put you on the spot and make you lock into a number, but just give me a round number and then we'll move on, because I want to cover two of the things I've heard here. So how much more additional money would we like to make?

$20,000 to $30,000.

$20,000 to $30,000.

Yeah.

All right. So let's shed that. We've got to shed that. That's a coat you're wearing. Now, real quick, here's what I'm going to suggest, George, and I want you to weigh in real quick in about a minute.

Because the truth is YouTube, it might be three years before you see a dime from this thing. And so you have conflicting goals. One is I have a dream, and one is I need money to cover the braces. And one day they could coincide. I agree.

So, so, so, so, you see what I did there? Sonia, that's it. Start sewing. Everywhere you can. The guys in the booth didn't like that.

Ken, we've got to taper this segment off. We do. Let's just go ahead and hem it right here, because we've got to go to commercial break.

Let's put a safety pin in it. We'll come back. Sonia, you could do this. Let's start making money now, sewing everywhere we can. And maybe you're going to reap a lot more money, says the ranch.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're here for you this hour. Excited to have you with us.

Can I guess?

Yeah.

Total money makeover weekend.

How did you know?

I just felt it. We got that ET connection.

We have that kind of chemistry. We've known each other a long time.

You had that total money makeover weekend look in your eye. Okay. Wow. I tell you, what. A glimmer of hope.

I need to stay away from the poker table. I'm so easy to read.

I caught you bluffing.

I'll tell you what. Well, listen, we're very excited about our brand new event, Total Money Makeover Weekend. It's happening May 10 and 11 right here in Nashville, on our campus, at our sparkling, beautiful Ramsey Event Center.

Still got that new event center smell.

It does. It does. It smells like a new car in there. That's always exciting for George. If you're wondering what is this, this is a weekend where you're going to get a crash course on everything.

How about that? Is that true?

It's absolutely true. I will be in attendance. Let you know, right here. Yeah. A little bit different than what people.

Your greatest wealth building tool, your income.

We're going to talk about what does it take to make money in the short term? Think Baby Step 1 through 3, I've got to be gazelle intense, and then how do we make money? How do we really start to multiply into Baby Step 4 through 7??

Not just a temporary side hustle for a season, but how do you actually amp up your career trajectory? That's right.

How about that for a little tease?

I'm excited about that. Well, I'm planning something new. We just met to talk about it. Can you tell us? I can only tell you this.

That's right. They're going to go fast. Early bird tickets start at just $99, so you'll want to jump in right now, ramsaysolutions.com slash events. Okay, let's go to Boston, Massachusetts, where Chris is awaiting. Chris, how can we help?

Hey, so I've been listening to the show and reading the books, and I realized kind of where my wife and I have messed up. We just kind of never accomplish baby steps one, two, or three, and we're just kind of spending money as we made it.

Those are pretty important steps. Good ones to not gloss over.

So in December, I got laid off, and kind of everything started to catch up a little bit, so we never really got into trouble or behind on anything, but it brought to light kind of how the lack of preparation just didn't serve us well. So I am starting work back up on Monday, and I was given the opportunity to cash out stock options from a startup I worked at previously, and that hit my bank account this morning. So I took the money that I had that got in my account this morning. I set aside $2,000 for an emergency fund. I paid off all of my debt outside of the house, and then I also have six months' worth of bills stashed in an account as well now.

What a productive morning, man. I'm lucky to get my shoes on and get out of the house. This guy's been getting checks and cashing out debt. By 6.30.. Way to go.

Yeah, and it made me feel so good. So now the next thing is, it's like, what do I do next? So the situation we're in now, we have $165,000 left on the house, but my wife's lease of her car is up, so we've been leasing as well. My wife's lease of her car is up in two months, and we have a, my youngest is 17, and she's going to be starting college next year. And she's been, and like.

Yeah, you got a lot going on and you've done a great job up to this point. And so your next step, you are in Baby Steps 4, 5, 6, and they're in order, but they are, you got to do them in priority here simultaneously. So, Baby Step 4, invest 15% of your income into retirement accounts. So how much do you guys make a year?

So I make $140,000, my wife makes $80,000.

Great. So dial that to 15% for your wife, dial that to 15% for you. You've got Baby Step 4 locked and loaded, you move on to 5, and that is putting money away for college. Obviously, this is a dire need right now. So this might look like, hey, we're going to shovel as much money as we can to cover this next semester or two.

Hand it back in and get something. So that's what I was wondering, like, do you use the six months of bills, like the finances, basically to use that to pay off the car and build that back up? Or is it okay to go into debt if we know that we can pay it off?

We're done with debt.

Okay.

So yeah, the key here is whatever we can afford is what we buy. And that might be a real crappy car right now. But pretty soon you get those paychecks in and you don't have any debt payments except for the house. So you're going to be able to stack up money real quick to get that used new-to-you car.

Okay.

So I would figure out what the buyout amount is for her car and see if that's something that's feasible, or if you're going to have to just give it back and then buy something used for now. that's in that maybe $5,000 to $10,000 range. How much money do you guys have outside of the emergency fund that you can use?

About $5,000.

Okay. When are the taxes due for your stock option? cash out?

It'll be next year. So I did it this morning. So it'll be due next year.

Okay. Because what I'm wondering, if we use that money right now and then we save back up to cover the tax bill when that comes due.

Okay. That's another thing I was wondering. Okay, cool. Like taxes, scare me. Oh, I agree.

I want you to be prepared, but I'd rather you cover the taxes later and save up than go into debt for a car right now.

Okay.

And then, having the hard conversation, and Ken, jump in here with the, with your daughter, you said going to college? Yep. You got to say, Hey, listen, mom and dad, we don't have the money to cover all four years, but we're going to come up with a plan so that you don't go into student loan debt. And that might mean she works part-time while in school. It might mean she treats scholarships and grants like a part-time job, applying for those that go crazy person.

Is she a good student? She's got a lot of options via her, maybe her GPA and her SAT or ACT.

Yeah. So, and it sucks, like it doesn't suck, but my oldest daughter, we didn't worry because she got a full scholarship, and then all of a sudden everything happened at once. You never plan on losing your job. and then it happened and it's like, Oh my God, we, yeah, we're not ready for this. So she's got scholarships to some school, not full, but then she just got, I think what the name of the booklet is, where she can start applying for scholarships and grants and all of that.

See, she's got options.

She's been doing that.

Yeah.

She's got options. And so you've got to explain to her. It'd be one thing if she just had no options and the only place she could get in, and then it was way too much. Now you're going, man, my kid really wants to do this. And now you're trying to go to their dreams and all the cultural pressure, if all their friends are getting into their favorite school and all that, in your situation, she's got options.

Is she going to go in state?

Her self-esteem is feeling pretty good. I would help her see, Hey, babe, uh, nobody really cares where you get your degree from. And so let's go where, financially, you get to come out of this. deal with your life in front of you, not your degree hanging on behind you because of all the debt. And I think that's just helping her see, Hey, uh, you've got so many options.

And Chris, I'll tell you, as a former Bostonian, I commuted to UMass Boston and lived at home in order to save money. Instead of going to Emerson, which I got into, it was going to be 200 grand for four years. And even then, not knowing Dave, I went, that feels like a stupid amount of money to pay for a film degree. Let me go ahead and go to this in-state school. that's a fraction of the price while living at home.

Yeah. Really good stuff. Thanks for the call, Chris. You're on your way. Stay with the process.

You'll get that house paid off, but let's wait and figure out investing in the car and college. Then we can figure out paying down the house. Yeah.

You're in good shape. All right. Don't move. A couple of quick commercials and we'll be right back. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life. We want to help you make more money and then keep it. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. When you're looking to buy a home and need a professional inspection, trust the Neighborly brand. house master.

Today's question comes from Jake in Ohio. This is a juicy one. When will Dave Ramsey and Ramsey Solutions admit they were wrong on Bitcoin?

Never.

Jake. Never. Gosh. Is this a real email, James? That came in?

Yeah, and Jake thinks he got us.

Well, I doubt. his real name is Jake.

Jake's a very.

Ken, we're going to take the high road and give him a real answer, despite his fake question.

Well, his question was, will we admit that we were wrong?

I don't think this is a right or wrong thing, and our stance on crypto and Bitcoin has not changed, and it's not out of sheer grit. It's that we were never angry at Bitcoin. The problem is people cashed out their retirement accounts, betting on a coin. And if you ask anyone who actually knows about cryptocurrency, they'll tell you, oh, it's not an investment. It's speculation.

So it's back up to its all time when people were going crazy over it.

And not long ago, Ken, it was, this was, let's see, let's go back to September of 2023.

Yeah, highly risky. And that's the whole point. And it's not proven either. This is a new situation that is not regulated. And I hate government regulation as a whole.

And I think it will soon be regulated.

Once it's regulated, this is something that probably needs some good, old fashioned fundamental regulation to protect consumers. And so that's the reason why we're like, look, be careful. This is, as you like to call it, a trend with a trap.

That's it. And so, again, if you want to invest in cryptocurrency, be my guest, but only do it after you're already investing 15% into tax advantage retirement accounts. and you're doing this with fun money. Dave calls it the burn test. If you burn that amount of money on the kitchen table, would it change your life for the worse?

Yeah. Wow. Might as well. buy lottery tickets.

I mean, there's not much different. And so I bless to all of you who want to troll. And if you're going to do it, give us a real email. Don't be a coward.

Yeah. Hiding behind the bushes. Very manly. All right. Let's go to Landon, who is joining us now in McAllen, Texas.

Hey, Ken. Hey, George. How are y'all doing?

Good. Good. What's going on?

Hey, so my question is, how do I bring up pay raise structure with my boss when it was never brought up in the interview process?

Is there a annual meeting that is part of the normal rhythm there at that company, where they meet with you annually and kind of go over your growth and where you've been, where you are, any of that happening?

Not that I'm aware of. We just... I mean, obviously, the end of the year just happened and I was working here at the time. I've been here about six months, but no, not that I'm aware of, and that's kind of what I'm asking. How do I bring that up with my employer?

I wouldn't bring it up in the context of a raise. I would bring it up, hey, I've been here six months and I know I've only been here six months, and I realized that when I got hired, we didn't really talk about a performance plan, a growth plan. Do you do that? And if you don't, all the time, if it's not like a formal process here at the company, I'd love to... Do we do an annual meeting?

Right. Yeah. And that's kind of what I was aiming for. I wasn't going in to this thinking I want to ask for a raise, I just want to know what the process is.

What's your role?

I'm a construction superintendent for a general contractor.

Okay. So, in your industry, in your field, what does it look like to kind of climb that ladder with growth? What would be the thing you're aiming for three years from now, five years from now?

So I could move into like a more of a general superintendent role, where the pay would be higher, but I'm new to this type of role, so I'm not expecting that kind of growth in the next five years. I'd probably be in the same role for the next five years, just with pay increases. Okay.

So it's less of a growth plan. as far as I want to be in a different role and more, just like, hey, as I'm here over the longterm, what does growth look like even in this role? Right.

Exactly.

Yeah. Again, I love it. I would just wait until 12 months, because even if you go and say, look, I'm not asking for a raise, but I'm asking what raises are like, let me tell you what the leader's going to hear. And listen, most leaders, when there's not some type of structured way of dealing with these type of issues, like an annual meeting where we talk about promotion and raise, they can get defensive pretty quickly if you hit them this way. And that's the last thing you want to do.

One can come across as entitlement, even when that's not your tone or your heart. That's right. And so that's what we're more concerned about, especially a young guy coming in for six months, the eager beaver who's like, hey, give me the raise. What can I do? Put me in, coach.

That's right. That's right. And here's a fun little exercise, I think, to play off of what George said. You know, what would you need to see? Put yourself in your boss's shoes and say, what would they need to see over the next six months where they just feel like, man, we got it.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. And we are here for you, America, to answer your questions about money and work and relationships. And you know, it's that time of the day for us.

Getting the sleepies.

And on the commercial break, Georgie boy told me that he was fading a little bit. So he's got his cold brew in here, and this has become one of my favorites.

You ready for the sound of nitrogen escaping this can? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That was like a rocket ship taking off.

That was fantastic. And that's what listening to The Ramsey Show is kind of like. You listen in, you watch on YouTube, you listen to the podcast, and it's like that. You know, when you start listening, that it's just that sound. And the goodness has been opened.

I knew you'd find some way to make this inspirational.

And you get a little jolt out of it.

That's good.

It's real good. Just like George's cold brew. In fact, this segment is brought to you by George's cold brew. Man. It's not a thing, but it should be a thing.

I think this shows that we're human. You know what I mean? We need caffeine, just like the rest of America. Yeah.

So cheers. Yeah. And you, by the way, I need to get in that. I need to get in that habit. I don't think you need it.

A little afternoon cold. You get too jittery. At your age, it's dangerous. You gotta watch your caffeine intake, Ken.

Oh, I can't wait.

I can't wait for the age jokes from you. Ken's gonna beat me up in the parking lot.

No, I love you, George. All right, let's go to Abby, who joins us down in Atlanta, Georgia. Abby, you are on The Ramsey Show. What can we help with today?

I want to figure out how the best approach would be to eliminate my debt and be able to, you know, get out of debt.

I'm curious, Abby. How old are you?

I am 23.

Okay.

And what is it with you on the age thing?

Well, it helps me to know, are they 43?

Can't you just help her? Why do you got to be so focused on the age?

I could tell Abby, she was a young buck, ready to take on adulthood, going like, all right, it's time to clean up my debt. I want to be a homeowner. And knowing that she's 23 just helps with the paradigm. Okay. You know?

Most of my debt's medical debt. It's about $40,000 in medical debt, and then about $3,000 to $4,000 in personal, like, credit card debt.

Okay. Wow. Are you okay? That's a lot of medical debt.

Yeah. Tell me about it. That was with insurance.

Wow. Well, medical debt, I have the most empathy for, because it's not something anyone wanted to take on.

She didn't go out and decide to go shopping. Yeah.

It wasn't like you just bought a new car. You're like, I don't know what to do. So, this is a tough thing. How old is the medical debt?

Most of that accrued around 2019 to 2020.

Okay. I'm wondering if they'd be willing to settle for a lower amount if you're unable to pay this in due time.

I have tried, and they are just money hungry. Northeast Georgia does not like anything but money.

Okay. So, you've been making a minimum payment? What's been the payment plan for this?

Honestly, right now, currently, I'm in between jobs. Last year, I made about $30,000.. And then, I also have my boyfriend that we're both trying to save as well.

Save for what?

For a house and try and pay off all our debts individually.

Oh, boy. You're going to buy a house with someone you're not married to?

Well, right now, we just want to get our debts paid off, and we each save up individually. So, we can purchase the home at that point.

Okay. I would not do that until you're married. And it's not from like an old folk moral high ground. It's from a legal, financial standpoint. It's very risky to do that.

Well, currently, I am just doing babysitting stuff, and I'm only making about like $400 to $500 a week. But prior to that, I made $30,000 last year.

What were you doing?

I was working as a VPA, as a scale operator.

Okay. And do you have a college degree, or what was your level of education?

Just high school education.

Okay. So, I'm going to have Ken jump in and help with the career side. The key here is income. It's fine to dream about a home, but it's going to be hard to do that from babysitting money. And it's going to be hard to pay off $40,000 in debt when you're at the poverty line, essentially, making $400 a week.

Oh, yeah.

So, we need to get income up before we talk about this other stuff.

What can you do where you know, okay, listen, forget about confidence and connections and those things that kind of trip people up, but let's just say that I could put you in a position today where you know you could make more money. What are the things that I would be able to say to all my friends out there going, hey, let me tell you why you need Abby. This is what she brings to the table. What could you do?

I've excelled in all the career paths I've ever took, whether it be manual labor, best jobs, financial jobs, anything. Okay. I'm a jack-of-all-trades.

Listen, that's great for making money. Because, listen, this is about transfer of skill. So, I get paid for the skill that I bring and the experience that I bring. And I love that. you gave us three categories.

Anything in the business field, I would think would be the best financially.

Okay, then. So, here's what we're doing. We're getting out there. We're looking at what's available. We're going to go look at job sites.

Yeah, because the job that I was working at, I was working six days a week, probably about 60 hours a week.

Was that manual labor?

It was doing scales as a VPA.

Yeah, I don't know what that means. You said that earlier and I honestly have no clue what any of that means. What do you mean scales?

18 wheelers, they come across scales and get waived.

What does that pay hourly?

I was getting paid $18.

And so were you getting overtime with the $60? Time and a half?

Yes.

Great. So what keeps us from going back to that?

It wasn't feasible with all the hours.

All right, but here's the deal.

With my health and stuff, it just wasn't feasible.

Are you living at home right now?

Me and my boyfriend live together at his parents' house to save money.

Okay. So it's hard to save money when you don't make much, and so we need to get the income up.

I think you're too comfortable, Abby. I don't think you're urgent. And I'm not criticizing.

I've probably put in, just in the last month alone, I've probably put in close to 100 to 200 applications.

I get it. I get it. But just putting out applications, it's like sitting on the shore and waiting for the fish to bite. No, no, no. We're going to go catch them.

Hi. I just have a question about a career path, for the most part. Okay. A little bit of background. I have a master's degree in aviation and transportation, and I was actually originally going to college to become a pilot.

What's your income?

My husband just got his new management position this year. So going forward, our income is his $82,000 minus $60,000.. And then, with overtime, I bring home almost $86,000 last year, and then I also just got a second job as well, so that we can try to pay off the debt faster. Okay.

All right. So what's your—?

My question is I'm concerned with moving the kids around, but should I go and take additional loans and go back to school and finish my pilot certification and obviously go and be a pilot and make a lot more money, pay off the debt faster, or I would have to get into more debt to do that?

No. No, I think, because right now, think about what you're— Or should we stay where we're at? I think you stay where you are as it relates to paying off the debt. Stay where you are is only referring to, let's not take out any additional loan for becoming a pilot. But I would love to work out a plan that says, okay, how much longer if we stay where we are financially and we get serious about paying the debt off, how long before we're in a position where we've paid the debt off, we have an emergency fund, three to six months, and we're beginning to invest 15% of our income.

So how much is it going to cost?

Sorry, George, one other thing. You've got to figure out how you can increase your income with that master's degree. now. You're making, let's call it, $83,086,. I thought you said.

So what is the schooling going to cost?

For the rest of the certification, it would be $70,000 to $100,000.

It's insanely expensive.

So I want to paint the picture of what happens if you go down this path, because you're like, well, make more money, it'll be great. Well, now you're $250,000 in debt with no savings for the foreseeable future, hoping that we can then clean up this mess. And so what we're saying to do is let's go slow so we can go fast later. Let's clean up the mess. Let's get some savings in place.

Yeah, that makes sense.

And so I know that's not the exciting news you wanted to hear, and I believe you'll be a pilot. How old are you?

35.

Okay. So we're talking about how long is the schooling going to take, from when you start to when you're actually flying. What does that look like? How many years?

I already have all of the education basis. It would just be the flight time and certification.

Okay. So we're talking a few years?

So you're looking at probably about a year, year and a half of certification for flight time purposes.

Michelle, I'm wondering, have you heard of any airline or maybe private aviation company essentially paying for someone like you because they need pilots and so they're willing to, if you're going to sign on with them, they would either reimburse you or they would pay for your education. Does that happen in that industry? I just simply don't know.

Yes, they do that. The minimum qualification, you have to obtain your private pilot certification first.

So what's that cost?

That would cost anywhere from $4,000 to $10,000 for me to get that.

So you're telling me you spend $10,000 and you will get the rest covered for free from a company? Correct. Let's pursue that path when the time comes.

That's what I'd be doing. George, let me ask this. I'm okay with her trying to cash flow that while paying off debt. I guess my point is I'd put that in the budget. I would still work the snowball, but I'd cut.

Have a separate fund.

I would cash flow that because that's about increasing the income and she could save the $4,000 relatively quickly. Yes, Michelle?

Yes. Yeah, it would take a few months when my husband's looking for a second job as well.

What's keeping you from pursuing that?

Right now, all the debt we have, every penny that we're making right now, is just allotted into that.

Okay. And again, that's the way we teach.

But you made $26,000.

That's what I do. George, are you okay with that?

I like this plan.

Maybe the second job?

Are you going to be able to continue working while doing this pilot certification?

Yes. Yes, I can.

Okay. If it doesn't give you a gap in income, I think this is the plan to help you get ahead faster while still paying off the debt. And I do believe your husband working extra as well for a season, you guys can be out of this debt within a few short years if you get focused.

And it's going to go faster while we're paying off debt and we get a big, big shovel in the form of a massive promotion.

She buried the lead there. We're getting this covered, Ken. I like this plan.

That's right, man. Dude, you and I are like little detectives.

Tiny detectives.

Tiny little detectives with our little magnifying glasses walking around looking for clues. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, George. How are you guys doing?

Doing well. What's going on?

Not a whole lot. My wife and I are currently on Baby Step 2, just turning through that debt. We last month just paid just about $15,000 off, and I still have about $7,000 in my stocks that I have from my stock purchase program at work. We're just not sure what to do with the remaining $7,000.. We have about $22,000 left in our debt snowball.

Cool. This would definitely speed up the process to liquidate these stocks. What's holding you back from just selling the stocks and being debt-free faster?

Yeah. So, you know, it took me about a year, maybe 18 months, to get my wife on board with, you know, the debt snowball and just kind of following the Baby Steps each part of the way. But, you know, it's just that safety net of just having that extra money. Like, we have the $1,000 emergency fund, of course, Baby Step 1, but just having that $7,000 in case something were to happen unexpectedly. We do drive older cars to not have car payments.

Well, let's play this out. And I'll tell you this as a guy who did the exact thing you're doing. I had some employee stocks when I worked at the Apple Store, and to finish off my debt payoff, I sold those stocks. And my nerd friends are like, I can't believe you know what those stocks would be today. And I go, you know, it really doesn't matter, because where I'm at now and the level of wealth I've built, because I got debt-free faster and I got that pep in my step, I don't look back at the what-ifs.

It's actually the same stock that you were just mentioning.

Oh, it was Apple. Okay, there you go. Which, historically, you know, Apple's got enough cash. They're not going to go bankrupt anytime soon. But I don't think you're going to have the—.

Yeah, that was all from the same bucket. I had $22,000, and I sold 15 of it. to really just speed this up. We paid all of my wife's credit cards off, and now we just have our student loans.

And you freed up payments there. And so if you liquidate the stocks, you pay down your debt, you're down to $15,000 left, right?

Yeah.

Okay. How quickly will you pay off the remainder of the $15,000 at that point?

Well, my babysitter's on my phone, so I'm not going to go on speakerphone.

But are we talking three months, six months?

I'd say it'd probably be more of maybe a 12-month situation.

What's your household income?

We make $115,000 combined. That's before tax.

And you can only put $1,000 toward the debt if that's your only debts left?

I believe so.

I think we can do better than that.

Let me rephrase. No, I'm so sorry.

Okay. And I think you can do even better than that once you free up some more of these payments and knock out some more of these individual student loans. Because if we're talking, let's say, seven months at $2,000 a month, this thing's about knocked out. And so that becomes the goal. How do we find $2,000 in margin every single month?

Okay. I agree with you guys 100%. I think having this conversation and kind of hearing it from the horse's mouth, so to speak, would carry it a little more weight.

I'm the horse.

Well, I don't know.

She's not going to be convinced by a guy on the radio or on YouTube. Thank you. Out of the camel's mouth. Yes.

But, if I may, if I could ask you one additional question that I wanted to ask.

We will allow it today. We will allow it because you're such a good guest.

I really appreciate that, guys. So we ironed all this debt out. We did our three to six months of emergency funds. I currently work full-time, same with my wife. I'm in school right now part-time and was wondering, would you say it would be okay if I were to drop to part-time work and full-time school to expedite my career path?

Okay. How quickly would it make this expedition happen? And then, what would be the financial benefit of this?

Sure. So I'm currently doing three classes, going three semesters a year. It would take me about four years, four and a half years to get my associate's degree. And if I go full-time, it would take me about 18 to 24 months to get this done. And I would be going for my mechanical engineering technologies degree.

So what do you estimate? I know you can't give me an exact number, but what do you estimate the bump in salary would be after the 24 months?

If I assume I make about $50 right now, well, I can assume. I know I make $50 right now. I would assume I would make at least $60.. I would be surprised if I didn't, but...

Yeah, I would be thinking $75 to $100 with that mechanical engineering degree.

Well, it's associate's degree, so I should be working for that four years.

I see.

Are you cash-flowing all the school? How are you paying for this?

So I have an Ohio 529 account that my family was nice enough to start for me. It's enough to get me started. And then my work pays me back about $52.50 a year. And so right now it's been covering it just fine.

So if you drop down into part-time work, it's not going to really affect your budget that much?

If we're debt-free, I would assume it wouldn't at all, because if we have so much margin to get ourselves.

Then I would do that.

So, once you're debt-free with the emergency fund, then you can drop down to accelerate the schooling and cash flow. the rest. That's the key.

Yeah, that's when I would do it. If that's how you're going to do it, I'd say do that, because I think you've proven to us that it's a real fast-forward button.

And now selling the stocks becomes a part of that plan to accelerate the schooling. Because the faster we're debt-free, the faster we can go to part-time, the faster we get through school. There's a domino effect there.

I like it.

I think that's the story that you talk to your wife about, not, hey, Ken and George said. It's, hey, think about it. this way. I can get through school this much faster. So let's get out of debt as fast as we can, which means we're going to liquidate the stocks.

I have to take responsibility for all this? No.

Yes. But the good news is it's on YouTube. You can have her watch it back. That way she's not just hearing you say, well, I found out from the camel's mouth, or whatever it is.

Ken's face does all the selling. It's the moneymaker right there. Is that right? I hope that helps you, Thomas.

Yeah, I think it's a good plan. And I think the key here, just a little marital or maybe some relationship communication advice. When doing something like this, if there's a little bit of pushback, then you always have to assume there's something fear-based there. So instead of just trying to convince and persuade, step back a little bit and go, what would be the concern or fear with this idea? Let me ask.

It's like the opposite of a politician. Instead of just dodging it, you're actually trying to get to the root of the problem there.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And that'll help with this. And it's a little bit of vision casting to say, hey, this may feel risky, but let's look at all sides. Yeah, because when he asked us the question, should I do it? What is the first thing we do?

Address all the concerns.

That's right. And then I think you're going to be much more effective. Good stuff. By the way, have you ever looked into a camel's mouth, George?

I haven't too closely. You don't want to get too close.

Because you rode a camel, didn't you?

They're pretty gross. They don't brush their teeth. I floss twice a day.

Do you really? Yeah.

I got my dental cleaning tomorrow. Can't wait to tell them.

It's going to be a good report. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys. Yeah, I'm calling in because I am currently trying to figure out a career path. So, I was in medical school and did not pass. So, I now have $50,000 currently in debt. But I have the option to go back to medical school in August.

Well, I've got to dig. What was the cause of you failing out?

I mean, it was close. I just didn't quite pass.

Well, hold on a second. Hold on. I'm not trying to be unkind. But there's not such a thing, as I didn't quite pass. You failed.

I feel like it was more had to do with just not having the right study plan in effect. Because I was doing really well in the beginning, but I think I did bad balancing, like studying and actual, like, balance with, like, making sure I'm still, like, taking time with my wife and doing other things in life. I think I'm just so focused on the school that I've burnt out. Because I started off top 10% of my class.

Oh, okay. That's what I'm getting at. Here's my point. I could never pass medical school. And it would have nothing to do with burnout.

Correct. So, forgive my ignorance, but what is the process to retake the exam? Do you have to go all the way back through, or what's the cost and time?

I have the ability to come back. I don't have to retake any exams. So, I was in medical school, didn't pass the first year, but you're able to go back to repeat as a quote-unquote, like remediating student. So, I can go back and start in August at half tuition for that year, but then every year after that will be the same price.

So, what's the bill?

For the four-year education, it's $50,000 tuition per year. So, $200,000 plus the $50,000 I have, so it'd be $250,000..

Yeah, I just, ugh. Okay, let's look at the alternative path. So, the health administration, what's required for that?

So, I could get a two-year online degree and then work full-time. So, it would just be doing the online degree in two years because I have a bachelor's in biology.

What does that cost?

It would be $14,000 for the whole degree.

Oh, that's fantastic.

I like that plan. And then what would you be making in that field? Obviously, less than if you were an MD.

Right. I'd be making, once I'm out, estimated like $60,000 to $70,000 a year to start.

See, and I always answer this question. I don't know if you're familiar with what I teach here at Ramsey Solutions, but I mean, I want you doing something that you were designed to do.

Yeah, I feel more that push towards being a doctor, but I definitely have an overall passion just for healthcare, which is why healthcare administration I wouldn't rule out. I think I feel that passion, though, more for just being a physician. I guess my question was, because, I mean, I'm married, so we're trying to make this decision together. I'm just trying to figure out if it's financially even smart, because for the four years of medical school, I mean, I come out with $250,000 to $300,000 debt. Then you're three years in residency, making $60,000 a year.

Yeah, you're buried.

I have to start paying back for that. And then, after that three years of residency, now I'd be out making $300,000 a year. But with that salary, I don't – I'm just trying to say, is that salary? – No. If I know I can go through and get it done, it's not worth it still?

I don't think so.

You're never going to hear us on the show say, yeah, go $200,000 into debt. It'll be fine.

Well, it's going to be $250,000, first of all. And then, several years later, you're finally making $300,000.. You start running the numbers. And how much of that income are you going to actually be able to keep? The answer is just bare bones.

Gotcha.

Is your wife working full-time right now?

Yeah, she's currently working full-time.

How old are you?

24. Yeah.

Oh, man. So I got to tell you, I was sitting there going, I don't know how he's feeling about that plan. But now, at 24, I want you to go with me here for a second, Paul. If you do what we just said, how old do you think you are? where you've saved up the money to cash flow, med school?

I mean, that would take forever.

Would it? George, help me out.

And the thing is, it's competitive. Well, first off, it's competitive to get into it, but then all my schooling and stuff, I would have to repeat, a bunch of stuff to even reapply, to get back in in the future. And I think that would be... Especially if I wanted to have like...

Well, you got in once, Paul.

Right. And Paul, we're talking about doing the thing that... But listen, there's no other way except for the debt. And I don't think that's worth it. But I do think it's worth you saving up the money.

Yeah, what's your household income?

We're $66,000 together right now. And then we have no other debt other than the loans. We have a mortgage on our house that we have, and we own both our vehicles.

Okay. So you have $50,000 in debt. You're making $66,000 household.

But we need to get his income up. Yeah.

Is that with you just in school and not working?

No, that's with me working full-time now, because I just went back into like basically an entry-level medical job. Yeah, but again...

Entry-level. So if we get that income up, combined income up to, let's say, $90,000 to $100,000, George, I just want to map it out for him.

It changes the numbers to where you could put away $30,000 a year. And that's right now. Over the course of time, you're going to start making more, you and your wife combined. And so that allows you to put $40,000 the next year, maybe $50,000.. And all of a sudden, you're like, five years, we can cash flow the rest of med school.

The point is you're 29,, 30 years of age, going to med school. And, by the way, you got no debt.

Absolutely.

Well, what's your answer?

Absolutely.

I think it ought to say absolutely. I think I'd put a freaking in there.

And Paul, we talked to those people who come out of med school with $200,000.

But 34, an MD, no debt? 34, MD debt-free. That's your new T-shirt.

Oh, I like that.

I mean, 34.

And he's not even a doctor.

I'm not a doctor.

Right. It's going to take time, but it's going to be worth it.

Nine years. And I did it because I stayed the course. And it was absolutely worth every second of the wait, in the sense of I was doing something and waiting for the arrival. And I just really want you to take that path. I think you're going to be so happy, so fulfilled, and so wealthy.

George always likes when I point out this is our worldwide headquarters. It is. We do have a lot of international fans, which is really fun.

We have people traveling from all around the world to come see us in the lobby. And so here we are. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. 888-825-5225..

Thank you.

Have you heard that before?

I've heard it. Not quite like that. Not that bad.

That's what we like to do. All right, Chris, how can we help?

Hey, guys. Appreciate you taking my call. I need some advice.

All right. We have plenty of that. I don't know how good it is, but, boy, we have plenty of it.

I'll give you a short back story. A couple of years ago, my wife and I started listening to you guys and getting angry at our debt. And student loan payments were coming around. And we buckled down, paid off $119,000 of student loans, and are super excited about that. We had our eyes on the truck and the boat, and there was an unexpected cashing of a very close family member, who we were lucky enough to be left $150,000 in cash, along with $250,000 of mortgage.

So, you want to keep both houses, move into the inherited one, and keep the one you're in right now as a rental?

Correct.

Okay. Well, there's a method to the madness here. So, the person that passed away gifted you the house, and along with that, the mortgage?

Correct.

Okay. And there was also $150,000 in cash. What happened to the $150,000 in cash?

We still have it.