Patience Always Pays Off in the Long Run

Thank you very much.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, find and do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Mr. Ken Coleman, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.. If you've got a question about money, about your work, about your purpose, the impact you're making out there, or you just got a conundrum and you need a third party, maybe an unbiased party, to just give you some advice, Ken Coleman's got lots of wisdom for you.

If you don't know what a conundrum is, that just means you got an issue where you feel a little stuck, and George and I, we're gonna shoot you straight, and we're gonna have fun while we do it.

That's the goal.

That's our MO.

That's our promise, if nothing else. So let's get to the phones. Victoria kicks us off in Destin, Florida. Victoria, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing?

Good, how are you? How can we help today?

I'm all right. I'm a little nervous. I'm just calling because about five months ago, I had a stillbirth.

So sorry.

At 39 and a half weeks.

Understandably.

On the work side, just this past month, I recently, you know, just built up the courage to go get another restaurant job, and it turns out that they're just running it unethically, and the manager and owner are in the pit pool and basically stealing money from servers. So I'm just kind of at a point where, like, I just reached the courage to, like, go work again, and I live in a tourist destination, so I was even surprised to get this job, because most places don't hire till February, before spring break. So I've tried to start a few different businesses in the past, and it just never turned out good. I've tried, MLM. I've tried...

Yeah.

You know, I owned a child care, my first business when I was 20, I started nannying for tourists, and that did pretty well, but I, at this point in time, I just can't be in the child care realm. Of course. You know, I've tried starting a sticker business. I've tried several different things, like, and I just don't know what to do. The internet is such a big place.

It's overwhelming, isn't it?

Getting the internet aside, you know, I've written a grief journal, but it's like I don't even know how to go about, like, publishing that and actually making sales, because that's, you know, Dave talked about it, like, writing a book and publishing it, unless you're on your guy's platform, is not a short-term thing.

Well, let me...

It's like I'm in the middle of grieving.

Absolutely. So, let's simplify this for a second. Do you need the income? Do you and your husband need your income, or is that considered extra?

We are... Our shovel is not very big.

What is he making?

I would say we bring in... He just started a business at the beginning of this year, so...

What is the business?

He does lawn care.

Lawn care. Okay. Okay. Is it already successful? Is it...

Yeah, I mean, he doesn't have... Yeah, we started it with cash. We've never been in debt for it. Everything's paid for. We're saving for more equipment.

Sure. So, the answer is you do need your income. It's not like you're...

We need... We need... We... Our bills, and our life is paid with his income, but there's no extra.

Okay.

So, my money is just for extra.

Okay.

So, we're gonna reverse engineer this, okay, with a couple rapid-fire questions. So, what would be the amount of money... Forget what you're doing, okay, but let's say we're taking restaurant business off the table. What would be the amount of money that, if I snap my fingers and you were making that it would... You would go...

I mean, my idea, if I would... My idea would be about $6,000 just for savings. Our living situation is not...

$6,000...

A month.

$6,000 a month. Okay. So, that's pretty... For... Are you talking about for the two of you or just you?

For...

Well... I'm talking about just you. What would be an income? I'm trying to get to a baseline. What's the number that you would really like to make?

$4,000..

$4,000 a month?

$4,000 a month.

Okay. Great. All right. So, I think that's an important number to kind of put in the whiteboard of your head, if you will, or write it down on a piece of paper and go, okay, that's what I'm looking for financially. That becomes our goal.

Yes, sir.

Okay, great. So, here's what I'm suggesting. And I know the area that you're in, love that area. It's one of the greatest areas on the planet. Our family goes down there a lot.

Yeah. We just don't really... Everything here is luxury stuff. We just don't have... We don't have...

Well, forget the land right now.

No, no. I'm not talking about the land.

Can you get a job at the Lowe's in Destin in the gardening center?

That's what I'm saying. Like get around the plants and get in that space. Like work for a very successful farmer out there who's... They're growing this stuff and selling it. I think you need to try to get in that space because it's something that you really enjoy.

Yes.

That's what I think you should focus on. You need some income. You need to heal. Okay? And so, instead of trying to start a business or even worry about that right now, now is not the time.

Get some stability with that full-time job close to what you want to do. while you build this thing on the side. I'm going to send you some resources. Hang on the line. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Get Clear assessment.

Speaking of money questions, I'm really proud of you, George. Your new book coming out in January.

That's right.

And this is really fun. It's called Breaking Free from Broke and he's got a copy of it right there.

Let me see this. This is the actual cover, Ken.

We got it in. This is the actual cover. You look great in your little denim outfit there. I shouldn't say little. I don't know why I throw that in there.

It's little on the cover.

Yeah, but let me tell you what. This book is not little. It's got a lot of great content in it. And this book is a little bit different. And I want people to know this.

Well, this is my personal experience and tons of research on how the system, the financial system, is designed to screw you over, how it's designed to keep us broke. That's right. And how I broke free from it. And it's controversial in today's world, Ken, to tell people, oh yeah, I don't have a credit score. Yeah, I don't use a credit card.

That's exactly right.

When you look up at all the excuses we can make and what the system is doing to us. So this is the book I wish I had when I was in my twenties.

It's very practical. It's going to feel like he's reading your mail as to what you're dealing with and how to break free from it. It's available today for pre-order for only $20, and you can get $100 in free bonus items, including a talk that George does. It's great. It's called Show Me the Money.

Thank you for that kind endorsement, Ken.

You bet. By the way, I noticed my endorsement didn't make it on the back of the book, so it's a.

little awkward.

We found some other, bigger names, it looks like.

We thought we could have Mike Rowe or Ken. Who are we going to choose?

I guess I see where I stand. On the old George Campbell totem pole of friends.

You know what? You were quoted in the book, Ken, to be fair. Is that right? Yes.

I didn't even know this.

Maybe multiple times.

I must have missed that.

You'd have glazed over that part.

I glazed over that.

You're too upset.

Tell me what page number that is. I'll get to that tonight. That'll be exciting. I'll FaceTime you.

Your kids will be like, Dad, you're so cool. We'll read it together. You made it to George's book.

They like George. My kids think you're cool.

That means the world.

Not me.

Well, you're a bit older than me, Ken. I get it. A bit. I get it. Not by much.

Hey, guys. I've got a question for you. We are moving from Salt Lake to Texas in June, July of next year, 24, and I've just got a question about should we continue paying our monthly minimum on our student loans in efforts to try to save up for a house purchase that we know we're going to have to make in that June-July timeframe, or should we throw everything that we can at our student loans now and then see what happens in June-July for a house and where to live?

What's the total debt amount you owe?

We just have... It's $135,000 in student loan, and that's the only debt that we've currently got.

Well, that's plenty. I don't think we need any more. Yes. Okay. What's your household income?

Right now, it's around $120,000, but in August, it should double to about $240,000..

So this is a job in Texas, or are you remote?

My wife's actually in residency right now, and residency's ending in June, and then she'll start a new job in August at a clinic, being a full-time practicing doctor, and that's why the income increased. Love it. And that's why the move as well.

Doubling the income, I would assume, is it a similar cost of living? Is it going to be cheaper in Texas slightly?

It will be cheaper. Okay. We're currently paying $2,200 a month in rent, and we would rent, but there's just nowhere to rent, and we're moving to a pretty rural...

Hold on, hold on, Jared. Now, them fighting words right there. You're telling me there's not a single place to rent in Texas?

Not one. There's...

In this town, there's not very many places to rent.

Let me rephrase that. I would feel comfortable living with my baby. Jared wants to buy a house.

Yeah.

Am I right? You're just itching to buy a house. It's okay.

We would like to buy a house.

Okay. So here, you called our show. We're going to give you our advice, and it's exactly what we would do. I would not buy a house before these student loans are paid off.

Dum, dum, dum.

I know that stinks, because that means we're going to aggressively attack these student loans until we move, and maybe after we move, and we're going to rent for a year, maybe two years, because then we still got to get an emergency fund in place. We still got to get a down payment.

What's the timeline on that, George?

Well, most people pay off all of their consumer debt in 18 to 24 months using the debt snowball method. And with your income doubling, how quickly could you pay off $135, making $240??

A year at the very latest.

Love that. Wow. Now, you're not making that $240 for a little while, and so that's going to slow this down a little bit. Do you guys have any savings?

We've currently got about $15 in savings.

Okay. So that could be a head start on this debt payoff, and that'll help you knock out this debt faster, help you get back to a fully funded emergency fund, which may be $30,000 for you guys. I don't know. And beyond that, we start saving up for the down payment on a house. I imagine it's going to be expensive in that area to buy a house.

A small starter home would be around $300,000, and that's what we'd like to move into, just a relatively updated starter home.

Okay.

So here's my question, Jared. If you follow George's advice, and you should, how long would you be renting?

We'd be renting for, we'd probably have to do a year lease and rent for a year.

That is nothing. My wife and I rented for two years when we moved from Atlanta back to Nashville. We had three kids, so we really wanted to make sure that we were landing in the right place. I just want to point that out, that you're going to be debt-free and in your first home, and that is such a better prospect than if you do it your way. I agree with George wholeheartedly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I know you might be limited in options of where you're going to rent. that's nearby, but it's only a year. You guys sound young. How old are you two?

We're 29, and we've got a three-month-old.

Wow.

That's exciting. It's a three-month-old. He doesn't care if you're living in a box. So you get there on the ground in Texas, and you get a lay of the land. I like it for a lot of reasons.

What are the school districts like? You know, all of that stuff is you need to just take your time with it. So, even if you were in a good financial position, renting is still a wise move when you're moving across the country to figure some things out and settle in.

Yeah. And we know we want to be there for the long haul. The place she's working is a clinic that we could buy out eventually. Cool. But we don't want to plan for that.

Rent, rent, rent. It's right financially, and it's right emotionally to make a decision you feel confident in. If you guys want to be there long term, I would absolutely rent for a minimum of a year to go, where do we want to plant our roots?

And all of that's going to help you make different decisions down the line. when it comes to buying out this clinic, and you don't have debt payments weighing you down, and you've got a bunch of money in the bank, and you've got a reasonable mortgage payment because you waited until you had a solid down payment. All of those things are going to affect the rest of your life. And so I want you to make decisions now that you're going to be proud of a decade from now, where you go, yep, that was the right move. It delayed us two years, but, man, it catapulted us for the future.

I know. Look at that. Yeah, and you look remarkably rested today, I must say.

So much.

Things are getting better. Caked on makeup.

Oh, is that what it is?

That's all it is. You look fantastic.

I would be more tan if I had makeup on, let's be honest. Hey, more of your calls coming up, 888-825-5225.. This is The Ramsey Show.

You know, I think about it two or three times a year, because it could cause a home fire. if you don't get that cleaned out. I'll bet you don't even know where yours is, because I didn't.

I know the location. Do you? Yeah.

Oh, that's more than I...

I clean out the lint every time, if that's any consolation.

I now do, but several years ago, I had no clue, and my father-in-law said, you should probably clean that out once a year.

No clue where it was. Here's why it's important. Those clogged dryer vents are the cause of thousands of house fires every year.

That's what I just said.

So let the experts at Dryer Vent Wizard clean yours. Don't let Ken Coleman do it. He'll do a terrible job.

100% do not want me.

Yikes. Yeah. Let the pros handle it. Visit Neighborly.com slash Ramsey to schedule service today.

All right, today's question, George, comes from Nick in Wisconsin. I just graduated college with a finance degree and got a job offer from a real estate investment firm to be an agent, but it's only commission, which means I wouldn't see money for 6 to 12 months. I want to know if I should stick with this job and get a remote part-time job or find another job. I want to work for myself but don't have the money and don't know where to start. Wow.

B.

Would the part-time job distract you from crushing it in that first 6 to 12 months to where you're building your pipeline and you're getting going? These are questions that I would ask. You've got to get the answers to these questions, George. Because they really determine whether or not the part-time job is even an option. Can you financially survive in a straight commission job?

Yeah, finance is a wide space.

Don't put all your eggs in this one real estate basket.

Yeah, finance is such a wide space. He may go, you know what? I really want to be in the banking sector, or I want to be a financial analyst or on the investment side versus real estate investment. So I don't think this is a bad move, but you're probably going to have to find an evening job to just pay the bills. And if, six months down the road, you're like, this, isn't it.

Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. And here's something else, too. You know, get around people that are in all different areas of finance. To your point, the banker, the investment advisor, you know, whatever, all the options. And just get around at this stage in your career.

And now's the time. When you're a young, single college grad, that's the time to try out all the things. And no one's going to miss you if you're working at night. So it's okay. You did that.

You did.

Thanks for the question, Nick. Appreciate it. All right, Cameron is up next on the line in Knoxville, Tennessee. Cameron, what's going on?

Hello, Mr. Campbell and Mr. Coleman. How are you all doing this afternoon?

Doing well. How can we help?

It's an absolute honor to be able to speak to the two of you all today. I've been listening regularly to the show for about four years, so I'm trying not to fangirl too hard, but no promises.

George is used to it. George is used to it. He handles it with grace.

I'm 19 and currently studying construction science and management at the University of Tennessee. I absolutely love it. I've been working construction for a few years now, but decided that I wanted to run a business. So I started a little construction and handyman service here in Knoxville. I recently learned how lucrative this kind of business can be.

You broke up on us, Cameron. Speak directly in your phone. Sorry.

I'm sorry. Can you hear me a little better?

There we go.

What was the last thing you heard?

You said you were chasing money instead of your relationship with God. That's the last thing I heard.

Yes, sir. So that moves me to my question. I'm calling today not necessarily for money help, but more so for spiritual guidance. I want to work hard and build a good life for myself and my future family, but I also don't want to live a life focused on my worldly desire for wealth. How, in the chase for success, have you each personally dealt with prioritizing your relationship with God?

I'll jump in first and just say that I appreciate the question,

George? Yeah, I think this is going to take a reframing, Cameron, to go, Alright, money's not evil, wealth is not evil. 1 Timothy 6.10 says, The love of money is the root of all evil. And so we've got to search in our heart and go, Where is this greed and fear and pride coming from? Is it a scarcity mentality?

That's true. I don't know if I'd choose the word gentle.

Well, you're not the type to get angry and yell at a caller. You'll rant about an issue. That's right. But with callers, I think you're a kind soul.

We're here to help.

That's it. That's it. And hopefully entertain at times.

We're going to try to be fun today.

Let's see if we can do that here with Tammy. Who's up next? Tammy in Chattanooga is up next. Tammy, how can we help today?

Thank you for taking my call. I'm hoping I can get some advice from y'all today.

Oh, you're going to get advice. Whether or not it's good or not is up to you.

Well, in August, my husband and I jumped on the Ramsey train. And since August, we have paid off $22,000 in credit for that vehicle. Choo-choo! Awesome.

That's awesome.

We now currently owe on our house, and we only owe $150,000 on it. Wow. I showed it by figuring. it looks like we can pay this off in two and a half to three years. The problem is we both currently are not investing 15% in our retirement.

I think you're seeing this as a black and white A or B issue. I want you to do both of these things. You should be investing 15%. Whatever money is left over, let's throw it at the house. Now, to your point, that might slow this down by six months or a year, right?

Possibly a year to a year and a half.

Okay. I'm all right with that. Because that money is going to compound for you for the next 30 years in those investment accounts. So, I don't want you to delay investing at the sake of paying off the mortgage a year early. Okay.

No, no. Our pension, we are both in public service.

Okay.

So, we have a pension through that.

The problem with pensions is that they're out of your control and they perform very poorly. And so, I don't want you just relying on the pension. You should also be investing in that 401k up to that 15%.

Okay.

How much is being taken out percentage-wise right now for the pension?

We don't have to invest in the pension itself.

Okay.

Yes. We only contribute to the 401k, but it's like 3% that we're putting in our 401k right now.

I would bump that up. And how old are you two?

55..

Okay. The good news is you also have catch-up contributions that will up your limits in that 401k, which is great. So, I would take advantage of those while you can.

And that means putting more in there?

Putting even more in there.

So, we need to catch up?

Yes, exactly. Okay. So, what's your household income?

Bring home is about $86,000.. Before taxes is like $136,000..

Awesome. All right. So, let's do 15% of that and make sure that that's the total amount you're investing over the course of the year. And that will help you guys retire with some extra dignity. Because I don't want you just relying on this pension.

I'm not really. I'm thinking I'll bring home with the pension would probably be about $2,500 to $3,000 a month for him once he retires. Which is not much less than what I would say probably bring home for a month would probably be between $3,000 and $4,000..

Okay.

So, it'd be a little less than he's making now. What's the house worth? Yes.

About $260,000..

Okay. Yeah. We just don't know what the future holds, what expenses will be, healthcare costs. Are you going to want to upgrade and house later on or downgrade? We just don't know.

Okay. Well, let me ask you one other thing. We have two IRAs.

No. Okay. Let that grow. And in fact, if you look at our investing strategy, it's match beats. Roth, beats traditional.

Hi. How are you?

Good. What's going on?

So, I just have a question about a family business. I have worked for my dad for as long as I can remember. But this past year, the business is really bad. He already sold off half of it the previous year. And now, this year, business is bad again, so we ended up closing for the season.

What's the number one priority with this? And what I mean by that is, do you need to go back to work? In other words, if the season comes back around and you don't have a job, is that going to affect you guys tremendously? Or could you make it without it? And is that your priority?

I love what I do, and I love working outside the home. Right now, we're on babysit three, and we should be done babysit three by March. So, our main goal is, just like everything at like, what we can to save up. We do expect to have another child at some point fairly soon. So, I don't know.

I would work, based on what you just told me, George. That's my quick opinion on that. Based on what you said, I think the answer is I would work. I wouldn't wait.

Yeah, things are going to be tight. if you decided to stay home today. What does that budget look like?

So, right now, we have about $2,000 that we're just throwing into savings. So, my husband brings home around $80,000.. So, we're okay, but extra money would always be helpful.

I would go into every dollar and make a fake budget and pretend like his is the only income, and let's add that other. kid in as a line item in the budget, the diapers, the expenses, and see what that would do monthly for you guys. If that's going to feel tight, if you can't, then invest 15% of that income into retirement, and you can't put anything away for college, and you can't put anything toward the house, then that tells me things are too tight, and we either need to find a way for him to make more money or for you to work part-time in order to close that gap. Okay. Does that help?

Yeah, that helps. I haven't ever done another job other than what I've been doing since I was a kid, so I don't really know.

Yes, but you do have some skills that are transferable and experience that's transferable. So, think about how the skills and experience from what you have done can be translated. Hang on the line. Let's get her the Get Clear Career Assessment, which will help as well.

Thanks so much for the call, Emily. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. My thanks to Ken Coleman, my co-host, all the folks in the booth, and YouAmerica will be back before you know it. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm, George Camel, here with my co-host, Mr.

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. How can Ken and I help?

I am fortunate to have a parent who wishes to help me out a little bit. I'm in a tough situation right now with my vehicle, and I have a parent who says, I just found out that she has a bond that she had purchased years ago with me in mind and is offering to cash that bond so I can get a vehicle, a safer vehicle, a better vehicle. And while I'm very glad of that, there are going to be strings attached, and I'm wondering if there are points that I might be able to diplomatically make with her to convince her that I am mature enough to shop and find a vehicle on my own without it being relegated to my brother, who is 1,000 miles away. She and my brother live 1,000 miles away. There's an interesting family dynamic.

What are the strings?

The strings attached are the money is only for a vehicle only if they buy it. And I know how I drive and the things that I like to do, and I would like to have some agency in picking it. And on the outside, chance that I can find something nicer, you know, nice enough for less than the full amount of the bond, perhaps I could put some of that money away for maintenance or for a little saving.

And you've told them this? You've told your mother this?

I have. I just found out about it. So, no, I just asked if it had to be a vehicle, if they had to pick it, and she said yes.

Yeah, that part's confusing. It sounds like she doesn't trust you.

No, she's controlling. It's always been like that. And while I am very grateful for the potential gift—.

How much are we talking here?

Possibly up to $10,000..

Okay. And are you in debt currently? What's your financial situation?

I'm not in debt. However, I am unemployed, and I'm living off my savings. I am, you know, I'm worried and struggling and trying to get a job, and, you know, I don't know what the future's going to hold for me, just like everybody else, but I'm really—I'm not in a good financial position. I saved and worked my butt off and put money away, and I've been living off savings, but—.

Are the strings attached over? Like, let's just say, they just gifted you a car. You had no idea about it. It was not the car you would have chosen, but it's a free car, and you're going to take it.

Okay. You know what? I get the point.

I would just be like, hey, a free car. It's amazing. It's not my dream car, but I'm going to—. Now, here's the thing. What if you saved up, and you were like, you know what?

It's possible. I don't know.

Because that's the part that worries me, is that we're not done. There's more strings attached to this string. That's the part that scares me, where I'd go, you know what? Thanks for the offer. It's very kind of you.

I want to dig a little bit more. Can I? Because I think George is on to it. He's got a great spidey sense there.

My spidey senses were tingling.

When he asked you, would there be strings attached if you upgraded, meaning you sold this car? they gave you, and down the line you said, probably, but I'm not sure. It doesn't feel like there would be a whole lot of blowback. That wouldn't be your answer if you thought it was going to be a big deal. Am I right?

You may be right. Actually, I think part of my hesitation in answering was simply because, wow, I hadn't even thought of it until you started leading up to that. I was processing what you were leading to, and I was thinking, well, why couldn't I just do that?

We've just seen it all on this show, and no one thinks through all the different angles and what's going to happen three years from now and all the relational issues that could pop up. So I'm just thinking ahead, going, okay, but what if?

I love your scenario, George. So, Rebecca, what if you did what George said, and now this is an upgrade responsibly? Is there any scenario by which your mother would get upset over that?

I don't think so. I don't either. I'm just like, I hate to speak. I guess there's a trust issue. I don't trust them to get a good car.

Let's get her this.

Isn't it your call?

Isn't it your call, though? No.

I missed that.

I think it's going to be up to him.

I've got to bring George back in here, knowing what we know. I've either missed that. But if the brother's buying the car and he's got a track record of buying garbage and she doesn't get to buy the car, that makes me nervous.

Yeah, because then it's going to be her problem that she's driving around and then paying for repairs and maintenance.

I wouldn't do it. If it were me, I would not take the car.

I would say we can have parameters on, hey, I'm going to get this car inspected. Here's the amount I'm going to spend. I'm not going to spend it frivolously on other things. But outside of that, this is my decision. Answer, George.

Do you think the brother would allow you to do that? The car he picks, he's got to take it to a mechanic?

I don't know why this is his business. He's clearly not a car expert.

Well, because he's the designated mom, his designated brother is the expert. Is that what I'm guessing?

I think so. And there's a very codependent relationship. It's almost like they're an unhealthy marriage. There it is. It's mother and son.

This whole thing just feels weird, over $10,000.. I would tread very lightly, because I think there's more where this came from down the line. And he's going to be talking to mom about what you did with that car. And it's going to just cause more relational drama down the line. So you just got to be prepared for that if you choose to do this.

I'm out.

I'm out. What about taxes?

Rebecca, I'm out. If I were you, I wouldn't do this. This stinks.

Well, you'll pay sales tax on the vehicle. Yeah. And if you're registering in Florida, it would be the Florida sales tax on vehicles. That's right. So you'd have to factor that into the equation.

I'm so sorry. Yeah. Would there be a tax just on her cashing this bond? Will there be a tax to me if it says POD in my name? Because I don't think that I'm actually on the bond.

If she's the owner of the bond, that would count as income on her. And so I would look into that as well, because that could count as taxable income for you. It's not going to be a deal breaker, but it's something to think about as you file taxes. I'm out. We're out.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's. And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too. Comparison is wired into us, but comparison can also become the thief of joy, because we can feel like we're not enough and begin acting and thinking in ways we would never think otherwise.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. You've probably heard us talk about EveryDollar. It's our world-class budgeting app that helps you manage money the Ramsey way. And it simply works wherever you are, iOS, Android, or online.

Hey, thank you guys so much for having me on the show. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. What's going on with you?

So, to get to the point, about three weeks ago, my job was dissolved. I put that in quotes because I was laid off, and that's what they told me was the reason. And so I'm out. I listen to your show every day. I've been listening to you guys for years, first-time caller.

Yeah, I think it depends on your financial situation, is the answer to that question. Do you guys have the ability to live off of her income for a few more months, if that's what it took?

It would be pretty tight. We'd probably have to sell some stuff. We're Baby Step 2, and we've gone... We went from ish to full-blown, so we've gotten rid of all of our extra money and put it into all the bills that we had.

How much less money would you be making if you take this current offer than what you were making? How much money less?

Over $20,000..

Okay. Less. So the question then becomes, could you make that amount of money with a couple of part-time gigs and not take this full-time gig? That's one question. The other question is, if you take this full-time gig, that's paying you less, things aren't going to be tight.

No, and that's something that my wife had brought up.

I'd do it.

So it could be something I actually love for.

I would do it. I would do it. Yeah. Here's why. It's going to stabilize you financially and emotionally.

Yeah, I'm with that. I would take this lower-paying job, especially if you've got to make this decision soon. If you don't have time to go, look for that better offer, I'd rather you take this one, because what we've seen is people call the show and they go, well, when's the last time you were working? Well, it's been six months, and I've just been looking for a job. I haven't found the right, perfect one yet.

So, yeah, I'll be going from Friday one job, Monday to the new job. But what if it's something I end up loving? And I know that I've heard Ramsey say, he talked about, well, and I even heard you guys talk about if you can make more, go to help get a bigger shovel. But what if I end up loving this job and it's not the biggest shovel? We can still make it and we'll still have, our margin will still be somewhat decent to get out of debt within two years.

The key here is to not slow down your gazelle intensity. And so if that means picking up an extra side job on top of that to get out of debt by your debt-free date, you guys had in mind, that's fine by me.

I agree with George. What I would tell you is if you love this veteran's job, you know what you do? You go get yourself a freelance tech job, IT, because you're good at it. You're freelance.

I've been doing it for 25 years.

You're very good at it. Very connected. So yeah, I think George is absolutely right. I just pivot and I go, I stay in the veteran's job, serving veterans. I love it.

And then, once you're out of debt and you're in a better place financially, you get to make the call. Do I drop the side job? Do I, you know, is this enough to keep our bills going and help us accomplish our goals? So thanks for the call. All right.

Hi. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

So wanting to know if it makes sense to sell our current home in California, which we still have a mortgage balance of about $650,000, use that equity that we've gotten from depreciation and buy a house in cash out of state and have zero debt? Or does it make sense if we try to keep the California house rented out and then take out a second mortgage loan for a new home that we potentially be moving to and living in?

Well, I'll tell you which one sounds more stressful. Option B.

I can probably guess. Yeah.

Double mortgage, trying to be a landlord, long distance, all of that is going to not really give you a smooth move. And when you land, you're not going to have as much peace as you would. if you had no payments in the world. And you got to then save up. And if you wanted to buy an investment property in your new location, you can do that because you don't have a mortgage payment.

Sure.

And I assume, even if we look to have one of the property management companies where they take 10% of the monthly rent, still going to have the headache? Still not worth it. Is that your opinion?

Yeah. And I don't think there's been a call on the show where we said, yeah, go ahead and keep it. Just be a long-distance landlord. In almost every case. And if we could go back in time, I'd tell you, don't do investment property until you can pay cash and your primary home is paid off.

Sure. No, that all sounds and makes sense.

One man's opinion. Ken, do you think anything different here? I know Ken, he loves – he's like, I don't sell it. Don't sell it.

Yeah, I don't disagree with you. Okay. I think you're absolutely spot on here.

I've just seen too many where people said, we kept it as a rental. We thought it was going to work out.

I thought your metaphor was strong where you just said, we'd never tell you to buy two houses, and I think financially it's the same thing. I thought, what do I add to that?

Magnum opus.

You dropped it and I went, okay.

I just wanted to make sure. No, I think you're right. You look pensive over there like, oh boy.

I was thinking through it. I was thinking through the motivations behind all of it. Patience is what I was thinking, but I think the financial advice is great. I would agree with you 100%.

Wealth is patience. I'm more of a tortoise, Ken, and some people find that advice controversial these days.

You know what? tortoises aren't? Financially risky.

That's true.

They're steady.

But they make it. They always make it eventually.

You look like a tortoise in that shirt, by the way.

I don't know if that's a compliment, but I'll take it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hello. How are you doing?

Doing pretty well. How are you?

I'm doing good. Thanks for taking the call. I like listening to you guys, and I'm surprised I got a call in. I was able to get accepted, so that's cool. Welcome.

What are your current walkaway options? What does that look like?

Short sell.

How much damage is it? Are you getting quotes on what it would take to remediate or fix it?

That's correct. Yes, it's pretty extensive.

Is it everywhere? Tell me, paint the picture.

Yeah, it is everywhere. We do suspect that there was fraudulent activities going on in the home prior.

And you've got a professional mold inspection already done?

Correct, and a hygienist. And, you know, I did all the proper precautions pre-purchasing the home. And the home inspector found a minor spot, you know, in an area that wasn't even in that general vicinity. So, you know, that's kind of, you know, sometimes you'll find that with purchases. So, you know, he figured, all right, you know, that's not, you know, we could deal with that.

So you're telling me, though, the seller knowingly concealed this mold problem and provided false information?

False information.

If that's the case, I would be going to a real estate attorney. I think you've got, you could have a case here. What did they say?

We've already gone down that path. And then the other thing is just my concerns. Like, I want to speak with you guys in regards to more information. I've just been kind of nervous, just because there is a process that I have gone, you know, down some of the routes that you just discussed. So that's one of the things, you know, like, you know, I don't want to say the wrong thing.

Sure. I mean, I don't think you have any recourse here except legal recourse. Right. I'd rather you fight this thing. And in the meantime, you're going to have to find a different living situation.

Right.

But I'd be looking at all the options and seeing your legal rights are going to be the big piece of this equation to see if they'll, you know, compensate to basically gut this home and do the mold remediation.

Right.

You've got some trauma now.

Well, let me say this. I ran into a situation with our current home, and it was a crazy situation. We were just doing some basic remodeling and found a wall with a good amount of mold on it. And it was coming from an area off of the roof that had not been flashed properly. And so once we figured it out where it was coming from, then we're able to address the situation.

Oh, yeah. And it's from fraudulent activities, too, that we suspect that it's not a natural experience that homes go through.

What does that mean?

No, we don't know what you mean.

Are they spraying the walls on purpose? I don't understand what that means.

So, as far as what we suspect is, you know,

OK, so they have. so they have. it's not a greenhouse, but they were treating it like a greenhouse and extra moisture to grow illegally.

OK, yeah, there you go. That's the worst. That's the worst suspect.

All right, then. So, my friend, let's focus on the future here.

That's all right. That's I need to. I need the future. Yeah. Let me tell you something.

You have all the evidence in the world from these remediation companies that there is mold all over the place. That was, I would you absolutely have got to you find the right lawyer who sees the basic evidence as we've heard it, and they get rewarded. When you get rewarded, I would absolutely get a bulldog on this and fight.

I mean, yeah. All right. A lot of what I've been learning is not pro bono, too.

That's the other thing. Nobody said. pro bono. Do you have money to pay for a lawyer?

Personal injury lawyers get paid on the back end of situations. And so I guarantee you can find a lawyer who goes, we got something here and I'm going to. I'm going to take these clowns to the bank and I'll get paid nicely. Yeah, you sound like a wounded, wounded dog and I get it. Oh, yeah.

I do.

You don't have any other option. Don't take it laying down. You got you were you were a victim here. Go find a lawyer who sees it is going to go to the. go to the mat for you.

So what's the total mold remediation cost?

Oh, that's hefty. We're looking at about three over three. That's just remediation. That's not rebuild.

Over three hundred thousand dollars.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's, we're not going to do that. What's the house worth?

I don't know if I believe that.

It's worth one point one. It's a big, big place. Yeah. And it's totally covered in mold. They found it every in every wall and infested.

Right. Who are the? do you know? Do you know the previous owners?

Unfortunately, yeah.

What are they reputable people like out there in the community? And this was a side. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Probably not. They're not, probably not. I wouldn't.

Well, but I mean, that's my point is, is we pursue suing them. Like, can they even come up with it?

Exactly. That's what I'm dealing with, too, that what I've heard is I put a lien on, you know, the home. And, as you guys know, being well-versed in finances and mortgages and homes, and what such, the mortgage company gets first.

So they're getting paid before you do, man.

That is it.

Mike, Mike, Mike, I'm so sorry you're going through this, man. This is just a bummer all around. We are not lawyers, but I hope you find a bulldog and you fight this thing and you call us back with some good news, man. We are wishing the best for you in this mold situation. This is the Ramsey show.

Hey, you know, shameless plug here. Don't forget your co-hosts. You know, you're starting out the new year. That's right. Hey, I want to do where I finally want to pursue this work that I love.

And many of the audio books are on sales for as low as five bucks.

If you prefer to get five dollars as low as I'm not making any money on that. Dave, what's he doing?

I listen. I don't call the shots, Ken. I just report the facts. That's fine. So Ramsey Solutions dot com slash store is the place to go.

Good afternoon, George. How are you guys doing?

How are you?

I'm not too bad. How are you?

What's going on?

So my question is and I called in about three years ago and Dave just kind of hammered me and I never really got an answer to my question, but I'm back in a similar situation.

OK.

Basically, how do you handle financing, the retention of a lawyer and, obviously, ongoing fees as you go through, you know, whatever it was originally was a divorce. Now I'm going through, you know, fighting over my kids. So just how do you maintain that? I mean, I just blew through my what I had saved as my emergency fund on the first lawyer. And it's like now you're back to zero again.

How much have you spent so far on legal fees?

So the divorce cost me 60.. So I paid that off back to back to no debt, no credit cards. And that's how I got through. that one was. I ended up getting two credit cards, paid them off, got back to zero, had eight grand saved, heading towards my, you know, 25 or about 20 grand in the emergency fund that I needed.

And is this custody battle soon to be over? What's the timeline look like? I mean, is it just never ending?

There's not. And that's the, I guess, issue with the system is they tell you that it's over, but then anybody can go back to court and, you know, file fees or whatever and paperwork. And then it just obviously just compounds time over time.