Israel And Hamas After Six Months

2024-04-06 00:15:01

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5Speaker 5
00:02.56 – 00:05.98

Hamas unleashed the violence of October 7th quickly.

3Speaker 3
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Shocking videos being shared on social media appear to show Palestinian militants shooting

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at passersby in the streets of southern Israel.

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Bloodshed continues now, six months later.

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I'm Ayesha Roscoe.

5Speaker 5
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And I'm Scott Simon, and this is Up First from NPR News.

3Speaker 3
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Today on the podcast, from that October Saturday, the United States stands with Israel.

4Speaker 4
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We will not ever fail to have their back.

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To today, where six months of fighting leaves Israelis, Palestinians, the region, and the

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world.

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Three NPR correspondents who've been covering the war are here, so please stay with us.

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We have the news you need to start your weekend.

6Speaker 6
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Support for this podcast and the following message come from WISE, the app that makes

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managing your money in different currencies easy.

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With WISE, you can send and spend money internationally at the mid-market exchange rate.

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No guesswork and no hidden fees.

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Learn more about how WISE could work for you at WISE.com.

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Listen to Extremely American from Boise State Public Radio, part of the NPR network.

3Speaker 3
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By the time Weekend Edition came on the air Saturday morning, October 7th, NPR's Daniel

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Estrin was already reporting on a historic and shocking attack.

1Speaker 1
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Well, you know, this is something that's been unfolding for about 10 hours now and

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going, and it's just astonishing scenes.

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Both Israelis and Palestinians I've been speaking with have been shocked by what has

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been happening.

3Speaker 3
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The estimates at that moment of the deaths and the attack by Hamas on small communities

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in southern Israel put the numbers at as many as 70 Israelis and 200 Palestinians.

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Those awful statistics would rise.

5Speaker 5
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And the conflict that began six months ago has now become the deadliest war in Israeli-Palestinian

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history, and it goes on.

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We're joined now by some of our correspondents who've been covering that war.

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Of course, Daniel Estrin is in Israel.

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Daniel, thank you for being with us.

1Speaker 1
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Thank you, Scott.

5Speaker 5
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NPR's Jane Iraf is in Beirut.

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Jane, thank you for being with us.

2Speaker 2
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Thank you, Scott.

5Speaker 5
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And Greg Myrie, NPR national security correspondent, is here in our studio.

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Thanks for being with us, Greg.

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Hi, Scott.

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Let me turn to Daniel Estrin first in Tel Aviv.

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Daniel, how has the past half year changed Israel?

1Speaker 1
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Well, it was the deadliest single attack against Jews since the Holocaust, which is how Israelis

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still talk about that day.

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1,200 dead by the Israeli government's count.

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And Israelis speak about it also as a second Holocaust because of the atrocities committed.

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Israelis hiding at home in their closets, burned alive, shot and killed in a field at

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a music festival, corpses decapitated, mutilated, hostages captured.

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The United Nations has documented these details in a report.

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And that brutality really has tapped into Israelis' trauma going back to the Holocaust.

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And it, I think, explains how Israelis have responded since.

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We've seen hundreds of armed civilian squads formed inside Israel.

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And Israelis' hearts have been hardened as soldiers have invaded Gaza, have reported

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on finding weapons in homes and schools in Gaza.

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And you hear a common phrase in Israel, there are no uninvolved civilians in Gaza.

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Israelis are not seeing the horrors of the war that Palestinians are experiencing as

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they watch the Israeli news.

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How do we understand the devastation that we have seen in Gaza and how it's been transformed?

1Speaker 1
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Gaza has been decimated to its core by Israel's bombardment.

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More Palestinians have been killed in this conflict than in any other in their history,

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33,000 and more.

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According to Gaza health officials, mostly believed to be civilians.

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There is no escaping this war for Gazans unless you have lots of money or connections.

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The UN projects imminent famine.

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Most homes, roads, water systems, health facilities, ancient historical landmarks have all been

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decimated, damaged, destroyed.

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And Palestinian public opinion poll recently found wide support still for the October 7th

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attack, seeing it as a triumph of resistance to Israeli oppression.

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But very few Palestinians have seen videos of what happened to Israelis that day.

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And I think you can see this as two societies where each sees themselves as the victims

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and the other as the aggressors.

5Speaker 5
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Greg Myre, let me turn to you now, because wars had a powerful effect in the U.S. too,

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hasn't it?

4Speaker 4
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Oh, absolutely, Scott.

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You know, on October 7th, we saw widespread public support here for Israel.

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Within two weeks, President Biden was flying to Israel and he was greeting Prime Minister

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Benjamin Netanyahu on the airport tarmac with a big embrace.

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But as Israel has waged this aggressive air and ground campaign that Daniel just described,

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we've really seen unprecedented criticism of Israel.

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It's coming from some Democratic members of Congress, on college campuses, among the

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broader U.S. public.

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And in the early days of the war, Biden proposed $14 billion in additional military assistance

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to Israel, and that's still on the table.

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But over the past six months, Biden has gone from totally supportive of Israel to mildly

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critical about its military operations.

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And then on Thursday, we saw his sharpest criticism yet.

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It came in a phone call with Netanyahu.

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He told the Israeli leader he must urgently do more to protect Palestinian civilians and

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allow in more humanitarian aid.

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Biden warned that if Israel doesn't change the way it wages the war, the U.S. will change

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its approach.

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Now, we should stress the U.S. hasn't changed policy at this point.

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It's still backing Israel overall.

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But if you go back to October 7th, this is certainly not what we expected to be hearing

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from President Biden.

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And Jane, we're here in Beirut now.

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What's the effect been throughout the wider Middle East?

2Speaker 2
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Well, Scott, it's brought the Palestinian issue back to the forefront for really the

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first time in decades, the Palestinian issue being the lack of a Palestinian homeland and

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six million Palestinian refugees, 76 years after Israel was created and they fled or

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were forced from their homes.

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In the past few years, that normalization spearheaded by the United Arab Emirates with

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Israel has papered over what countries like Jordan say over and over is instability that

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will last as long as the Palestinian issue isn't addressed.

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And in Jordan, which we have to remember is one of only two Arab countries with a peace

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treaty with Israel, the longer this goes on, the more civilians killed, the more tension

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rises.

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That was a protest last week near the Israeli embassy in Amman, now almost nightly.

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And something else I've noticed is the death toll climbs, more anger against the U.S. because

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of its arming of Israel.

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Here in Beirut, the focus is on the Lebanese border where Israel has been fighting the

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Iran-backed armed group Hezbollah.

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The fear is that after the presumed Israeli attack on an Iranian embassy compound in Damascus

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this week, an escalation in fighting here could spark a wider war.

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Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, a short while ago told his followers they can be sure

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that Iran will avenge the deaths, but they shouldn't be in a hurry to see it.

5Speaker 5
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Greg, tell us about the concerns that certainly the U.S. has about the wider potential impact

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of this war in the Middle East.

4Speaker 4
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Yeah.

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A top priority since day one is that this war does not spread to other parts of the

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Middle East, and it's taken several steps to try to prevent that.

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Initially, this meant putting an aircraft carrier in the Eastern Mediterranean as a

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show of force and deterrence.

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Now, despite this, U.S. military bases in Syria and Iraq came under fire from various

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militia groups.

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The U.S. struck back, and these attacks have largely subsided for now.

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The U.S. Navy is also in the Red Sea off the coast of Yemen.

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It's trying to stop the Houthis from firing missiles at commercial ships.

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These attacks are ongoing, though at a lower level.

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And the U.S.'s Iran is stirring the pot, supporting these groups.

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But so far, the wider region has not boiled over, though it remains very tense, as Jane

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explained.

5Speaker 5
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There seemed to be a real event that stirred things up even more over the past few days

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with the killing of a team of aid workers with the World Central Kitchen in Gaza, including

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an American.

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Jane Araf, what are some of the repercussions we can see?

2Speaker 2
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Well, as Greg mentioned, possibly a turning point in the U.S. willingness to exert pressure

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on Israel.

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Israel has now agreed to U.S. demands that it open up a third border crossing and allow

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more trucks through the existing crossings.

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The reason that World Central Kitchen was delivering food by sea, and the reason for

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the airdrops of aid, which are just a fraction of what could be sent by road, and the reason

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for U.S. plans to build a pier, are Israeli restrictions on aid going by land into Gaza.

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Israel cites security concerns.

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But children are dying of starvation, according to the U.N.

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Half the aid is getting into Gaza than it was before the war, and people need it much

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more now, with so much of the infrastructure destroyed.

5Speaker 5
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We want to go around to each of you for some final thoughts.

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Jane Araf, let me begin with you.

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How is this war different from what we've seen in the past?

2Speaker 2
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You know, at the Lebanese border one day, I was watching a man sitting in a plastic

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chair in the courtyard of his damaged home, surrounded by shattered glass as he looked

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out across the border.

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And for decades, people in countries around here have expected everything they build to

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come crashing down because of the region's instability.

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This is the first time that I've heard hope that there could be a Palestinian homeland

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emerging from this somehow.

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It's also unprecedented, Scott, in terms of media coverage, because Israeli restrictions

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have made it almost impossible to cover the war on the ground.

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You know, I and many other journalists covered the U.S. invasion of Iraq and the major battles

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afterwards on the ground.

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The only way to see what's happening, we're barred by Israel from seeing what's happening

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in Gaza.

5Speaker 5
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Daniel Estrin in Israel, what are your thoughts?

1Speaker 1
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I'm left with one image, Scott.

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A couple months ago, there was an Israeli commando raid that rescued two Israeli hostages

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in Gaza.

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And the Israeli military unleashed bombings to provide cover for their commandos and killed

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many Palestinians.

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And I was driving in Tel Aviv as our producer in Gaza sent over some sound that he recorded

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of a mother wailing over her child who was killed.

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And while I was driving, I saw an Israeli driving on his motorcycle with a bumper sticker

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on it that said, Go IDF, Go Israeli Army.

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And I think that just encapsulates the two worlds that Israelis and Palestinians live

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in now.

5Speaker 5
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And Greg Meyery?

4Speaker 4
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You know, I first covered the Israeli-Palestinian fighting in Gaza in the early 2000s.

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And it was very bloody, Palestinian suicide bombings, Israeli airstrikes.

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But it simply wasn't on the scale of what we're seeing today.

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I mean, there's this clear need to stop the killing and ease the human suffering.

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But it's also important to think about what comes next.

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I mean, if there's a ceasefire, but Hamas remains in power, it continues to hold Israelis

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hostage and poses an ongoing threat to Israel, that's not going to be acceptable to Israel.

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And from the Palestinian perspective, as Israeli troops remain in Gaza, if there's no plan

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to rebuild the devastated territory and no political horizon for Palestinian statehood,

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that's not going to be acceptable to the Palestinians.

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You want to end this war as soon as possible, but you don't want to leave in place conditions

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that could lead to another conflict a few years down the road.

5Speaker 5
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NPR's National Security Correspondent Greg Meyrie, NPR's Daniel Estrin in Tel Aviv,

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and NPR's Jane Aref in Beirut, thank you all for your fine work and for being with us today.

4Speaker 4
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Thank you, Scott.

1Speaker 1
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Thank you, Scott.

2Speaker 2
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Thank you.

3Speaker 3
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And that's Up First for Saturday, April 6, 2024.

13:15.34 – 13:16.56

I'm Aisha Roscoe.

5Speaker 5
13:16.58 – 13:17.50

And I'm Scott Simon.

3Speaker 3
13:17.50 – 13:21.88

Fernando Naro and Michael Radcliffe produced today's podcast.

13:22.26 – 13:24.46

Ed McNulty and James Heider edited.

13:24.84 – 13:27.68

We had engineering support from Patrick Murray.

5Speaker 5
13:28.10 – 13:30.12

E.B. Stone is our Senior Supervising Editor.

13:30.30 – 13:32.72

Sarah Lucy Oliver is our Executive Producer.

13:33.30 – 13:35.38

Jim Cain is our Deputy Managing Editor.

3Speaker 3
13:35.84 – 13:42.32

NPR is collecting coverage and analysis of the war between Hamas and Israel at npr.org

13:42.32 – 13:43.84

slash MidEastUpdates.

13:44.36 – 13:49.24

You can hear voices from Gaza and Israel, the wider region, and from here at home.

5Speaker 5
13:49.46 – 13:54.28

As well as facts, figures, differing views, and the latest news on the conflict.

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Again, that's npr.org slash MidEastUpdates.

13:58.62 – 14:01.70

Tomorrow on Up First, what to expect from Monday's eclipse.

3Speaker 3
14:02.26 – 14:03.10

Thanks for listening.

14:03.30 – 14:07.16

And remember, you can find us on your radio every Saturday and Sunday morning.

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Find your station at stations.npr.org.

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Support for this podcast and the following message come from WISE, the app that makes

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managing your money in different currencies easy.

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With WISE, you can send and spend money internationally at the mid-market exchange rate.

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No guesswork and no hidden fees.

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Learn more about how WISE could work for you at WISE.com.

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