Synced: The Pins Have Pins

Vintage. Yeah. It looks so cute on you. It's Pink Floyd.

And I'm obsessed with those shoes. Those are the shoes, remember, you almost fell in? Remember when we almost sinked completely?

We did, because you fell, then I fell.

You know, my ankle's still not a hundo.

Really?

I'm not a hundo. Oh, so I heard you hate this candle. Yeah. Do you mind if I take it? Of course.

I wish. $6,000..

You know what you could do? It's not.

It's very reasonable.

There should be a feature on you of not the high end stuff that you get, but the little things that you figured out, the best high end way to do it.

I do feel like they have Amazon lists.

Yes.

Can't you do that? Where you can put out your list? Yeah, you make like a wish list type thing, but it's recommended. I mean, you could probably get a contact at Amazon to set up a proper shop.

Influencers have that, right? They're like, look at my shop.

I don't know. I'd have to look. Anyway, well, I'm glad that the air mattress is serving you well.

It's so wonderful.

You've been on it for a while now. Two weeks. Yeah. How are you adjusting to Los Angeles?

I love it because I love you. I love our show. I've been very social. Good. I feel like in New York, I was always too tired and overstimulated.

What have you been doing?

Going on dates, because I'm always doing that.

You went on one yesterday.

I did.

How did it go?

It went well. But I was like negative about it to you.

Before?

Yeah. I am at a place where, like, I feel really at peace and I feel like I would hear people say that and I was like, oh, I wish I could feel that way. But I do. I feel like my life is really full right now, actually. Yeah.

I did. We started construction on my house. Finally. It's a very big day. There's a picture of me with a sledgehammer.

Wait, you did an actual crack. like you took the tool?

Yeah. I'll show you a picture. That's cool. Yeah. It's like a rite of passage, I guess.

Is that what people do? I'm not a homeowner. I don't know how it works.

Yeah. I mean, I'm doing a huge project. I think that's why. It's essentially like I'm demoing the house. You know.

Is this the first time you held a hammer?

Well, that's-. Is that a hammer? It's a sledgehammer.

Oh, my gosh.

I've obviously held hammers. I have to hang stuff. I have to hang art.

I mean, how many times have you held a hammer?

In my life. A regular hammer?

10 times. 10 times? I don't think I've held a hammer more than six or seven times. Wait.

Are you not hanging stuff?

I don't trust myself to do that. So there was this app called Handy. Oh sure. Remember Handy? Yeah.

I have held a hammer upwards of 14,000 times in my life. I held one literally two days ago. I was- For what? Hammering this little mirror.

Okay. Little mirror.

Yeah. And a small, tiny mirror goes in a tiny spot, and I had to hang it.

With a big hammer.

Well, that is a sledgehammer. That is probably the first time I've held a sledgehammer. When else would I have held one? Maybe for like a shoot, I'm trying to think, would I have held something?

Oh, as a joke?

Well, as an actress. As a prop. You know, people really know me as my role, as Mary the Construction Worker.

Okay. Do you know about that? No, I don't.

It's like my biggest role.

Okay. That was a lie.

It is? Yeah. Well, it was a joke.

Oh, my God, I'm really gullible. in L.A. I feel like this keeps happening. People are more sarcastic. Or like my radar is down because I'm too happy or something.

No, I've never played a construction worker yet. Oh, but-.

Put it out there. Exactly. Manifest.

I will. Anyway, okay, back to your date. Where was it?

At his house.

Did he cook dinner? No. Did he just have you over to chill?

We watched a film. What film?

We're not going to say who it is. I don't even know who it is. Is it someone?

Yeah, it was. ... I'm trying to make a joke. It was Jeremy Strong and we were watching the last episode of Succession.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. Lucky.

Super fun date. I learned a lot. I do think, all the time, about the people. There are people who have seen the season finale of Succession. Like, there are people walking around amongst us who have seen it.

And they gave her a. ...

I have a story.

I highly doubt it. Really? Like, I know for White Lotus, zero people.

Is it like the Oscars? Like, they? just, like, don't. ... Yeah.

Especially on a huge show like that.

Right, right. That people would know. Okay.

I mean, the director, the actors know what happened.

Well, you know that they. ... Well, I learned this on your show. They're writing it while they perform.

Yeah, but they're a little bit ahead.

Sure. They know how it ends.

Yeah, because how many more episodes are there? One. That's it. Oh, well, see, you know, I'm behind. I'm a, ...

Oh, my gosh. I'm so jealous.

I'm actually a couple episodes into last season. Oh, God. Well, it's good. I need to hop back into that, because I felt like it was getting repetitive. ...

Yes.

... at the beginning of last season.

It does.

And I kind of fell off of it because of that. Okay.

Well, it doesn't. It takes a turn at the end. That's really, really exciting. And then the beginning of this season feels like repetitive. The first episode is the worst one, I think.

Oh, whoa. Types. I definitely had a pin in this from like two episodes ago. We started. ...

Six foot six?

Seven? Seven? That was also a lie. He's not the tallest man alive.

Okay, thank God.

Yeah. You believed it. Yeah. I feel unethical about lying to you or making jokes because you just believe it.

Well, you should see how far you can take this. If I were you, I'd have fun with it as long as. ...

Well, whatever.

I don't want to hurt anyone or harm anyone. Yeah.

Okay, anyway, so we had Nicholas on. Incredibly fun episode, great guy. So good. And we released it. You texted me and said, oh my God, Nicholas Braun, he's so hot.

I wish. Not I wish.

Well, that's what we'll get to. No, no. I'm not taking it out.

Meaning like, no, no. When I say that, it's that I'm done with my Nicholas Braun obsession, but I was really. ... I think I've DM'd him. I think we could actually go in and see what stupid thing I wrote.

You were one of the girls, one of the New York girls.

No, I wasn't. I never made it to that tier, but I definitely wanted to.

You should have gone to his bar. I did.

Oh my God. I would have gone to Ray's. I know all the bartenders. It was only a matter of time, and it didn't happen. I think once he became very, very popular, I was like, now he knows.

You think maybe it went to his head or something?

That was my perception, based on absolutely nothing.

Okay. Based on no information.

Based on no information in my own imaginary relationship.

Let's put a pin in that, because that's going to circle back to something we also want to talk about today. Okay. So, you said, he's so hot, I want him to spray our eggs, I'm in love with him. And I said, no, you're not. What are you talking about?

Oh, my God.

Remember? I said that. And you were like, no, he totally is my type. That's my type. But Liz.

What?

That's not true. Everyone you date is very classically hot.

Nicholas Braun, I feel like I'm in a different universe. The sky is purple. I feel like this is what you're saying to me right now. Nicholas Braun is so hot. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Wait, Rob, you don't think he's hot?

He's not a conventionally attractive man. He is an attractive person, and he has a good vibe, and he's flirty, and all of those things. But if we're having like, I hate this. He's like a dorky, nerdy guy. He's not the athlete.

I dated one athlete. I really only dated one. No, no, no.

I'm using athlete as a metaphor, right? You date the hot jock in high school, and Nicholas Braun is not that. He's the funny theater guy. But you date the hot jock. That's who you seek.

That is not who? Oh, my God. Matt Damon?

Of course. No. Paul Rudd.

Of course they are. They're both on the football team.

No, but he's so nice.

He is nice.

That's like Saracen, and I never remember his name. Taylor Kitsch. I've never seen this show. This is so ding, ding, ding, because Nicholas Braun did this. Tim Riggins.

I remember him bringing it up, but I didn't know what it was.

Okay. Well, this is the classic battle. Saracen, he is very cute. Nice guy versus Tim Riggins. Sort of bad boy, hot, a little bit greasy, haired, a little tortured.

I have, but-.

Well, they end up being tortured, but that's not their appeal.

Because they're with me, yeah. No.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You realize they're tortured, but it's not- Sure. They're not leading. No. They're not brooding.

I don't think you realize how many people I go on dates with. The spectrum, that's been a joke. with my friends. I will have giant crushes on people, and my friends are like, this five foot four, curly haired, professor of history, and go from that to, yeah, an athlete. So I do have a range.

I guess I'm just thinking of the last three relationships I know of with you. Also, let's tell another story. That's really fun.

One of them was not pretty. The egg freezing person, yeah, I think so.

A little on that greasier end, like I'm saying. I feel like we can't release this episode.

This should be a segment every week.

No, it just reminded me, because very pretty people. So there's a very pretty person in the zeitgeist who you're attracted to. You don't know him, though. Okay. You know who I'm talking about.

He's not my number one, but my number one is taken, and it's okay. Brian Gosling is my number one.

Oh, yeah, that's right.

But unavailable and very happy for him.

Yeah, when we're talking about our number one celebrity crushes, we don't have to like qualify whether they're taken or not, because this is like, ruins the fantasy, and it is a fantasy.

I did.

And can you tell us what happened?

I think this story's funny. Okay. It's where we differ. When I go to something or I'm somewhere and I see someone that I think is amazing, I tend to go up to them or like find a way to connect with them, and that stems from the time that I saw Chris Martin and I didn't talk to him. That stuck with me for years because we had intense eye contact.

Oh, where were you?

We were at a smoothie place in Santa Monica. Oh. This was pre-Dakota. So, again, I'm very aware of not stepping on anyone's toes. in my fantasies.

Same.

Really love, and I still think they're great, and I think he's great. He's always very involved and trade not aid. on his hand. I was like, my God, he's so dreamy. So I walk into the smoothie place, and I just do a scan.

Oh, right, white. savior.

White savior, and it's also not recognizing the fact that it's our trade deals that are disadvantaging these countries. Instead of giving them aid, change the trade deal so that they're not at a disadvantage.

Okay, that's great.

Yeah, I just thought he was very invested and involved, and I thought we'd be perfect for each other. Sure. And so I walked into the smoothie place. We lock eyes like in the movies. There's no one else, and all of a sudden I'm like, oh, my God, this person that I think is so amazing, and then he locks eyes with me.

What?

In his face? What? Spit?

I don't know, like drool on accident or spit?

Oh, probably. I had no control of my bodily functions at that point. I probably did. And then I got my smoothie, and then I stepped out, and I was outside, and he was inside. And there was still eye contact.

He wanted to talk to you.

Yes, but he was with an entire group of people.

Oh, a posse.

And then, yeah, he walked out, and then there was that sense of when a hot guy walks out of a coffee shop, but it's Chris Martin, and I didn't say anything. And then, yeah, for several years, it was like that was my in, and I didn't take it. So anytime that the universe presents an opportunity, now I just take it. I'm like, this, is it.

This is my moment. Oh, you think it's like redemption for the last time.

I think the universe is offering you an opportunity, and are you going to take it? Okay. Like, what are you going to do?

That's a great spin on it. Maybe. One life.

I prefer to regret, and in this situation I'm going to talk about, I'm happier that I did it, and it didn't work out super well than if I hadn't done anything. Okay. I have no, hashtag, no regrets. I think it's better to just do it instead of living with what could have happened.

We do differ here. Okay. Oh, you do.

You prefer not to know.

Depending on the situation, but let's hear it so we can uncover it.

So I have this crush on this person, who's very famous, but there's like a few degrees of separation, all right? He works in a certain industry where I have friends who are friends with him, and so I did try, through those circles, to get a date with this person. Oh, you did? I did. I inquired.

But you look great in sweatpants.

Thank you.

Yep.

But, you know, there are days where you travel and you take care of yourself, and there are days where you really are like pajama mode.

Yeah, we should put a pin in travel outfits.

We need to. I feel like you're really good at it.

Rob, will you write down all the pins? We've got so many pins. We've got so many pins. Is that our first pin?

I feel like the pins have pins. now. They do. Yeah, so I'm in the lowest version of Traveling Cute. I see him in this public place, and I'm like, perfect.

You were acting as if you had already met him.

And that he'd already given me my number and forgot that he'd given me my number. Correct. And that we know each other.

Yeah.

And so I wait a few minutes. There's no response. And so then I start getting nervous because we're in a transient public place. No public place, really, unless this is where he lives. So I start getting nervous.

Right?

If he looks down and he's like, oh, yeah, did you just text me? I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I basically walk over. And I, by the way, I just want to say I am nervous. I'm not a sociopath.

This is next level. Next level.

I'm really not good at lying, and I'm not a good actor, but this is what I'm going to need to do in order to make this happen. And so I march on over. I go up to him and interrupt his conversation with his friend. He looks up, and I can already tell he's like, she's a fan.

He classified you. Yes.

He's not, like, looking up at me and looking forward to this interaction.

Falling in love with you.

Yes. He's not yet falling in love with me. So I'm definitely already, oh, this is not great.

Okay.

And so I say his first name. We'll call him Peter.

Peter.

I say, Peter. And I'm like, it's Liz. Oh!

Oh, my God. I don't think I knew this part. Yeah, yeah.

I'm like, it's Liz. Remember?

You said, remember. Of course.

Of course.

No, no.

I feel itchy.

I say we've met before. I'm really close friends with, and then insert the name of people that I am close friends with who know him. And he's like, oh, was it at, you know?

Oh, my God.

He asked? Yeah, yeah. He was truly like, I've met you. I've named specific people that we have in common. And again, there's a award show where we would have met, given these people.

Great.

So, I'm about to do a little girls weekend, because my best friend is coming into town, and it's such a fun little party bag. So, I had a bunch of snacks, and then I put some Element in there, too, so that we're still feeling good, even though we're going pretty hard in the sun. Maybe we're drinking a few cocktails. And what's great about it is that it's healthy, right? There's none of the junk.

Yeah. It's been a joke a lot for me that I think electrolytes are, one, the future, two, the solution. I just think they're everything, and it's all there. It's just amazing. I always feel so much better after I've had it.

So, right now, Element is offering a free sample pack with any purchase. That's eight single-serving packs free with any Element order. This is a great way to try all eight flavors. They're all so delicious. Or share Element with a salty friend.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Me and you, we are sponsored. We are sponsored by therapy. That's pretty much what this whole show is about, is the things we've learned in therapy that we're now talking about.

Yeah. We, again, you know, we're not licensed, but BetterHelp has licensed therapists, which is why they are far better than us. And it's such an incredible service. So, you know, whether you're dealing with decisions around your career or around relationships or anything else, therapy really helps you stay connected to what you really want while you're navigating all of these challenges in life. And you can move forward in your life with, you know, confidence and being excited about your life instead of, like, afraid of it.

Exactly. And I think me and you, I mean, I would say 90% of our conversations start with, well, my therapist said, my therapist said. And it's really helpful. I notice it when I even skip one week of therapy, truly. Like, it really makes a huge difference.

Mine, too.

I immediately said, no. All caps. Yeah. But you had already done it.

Yeah.

I guess for me, and this is a difference. This is such a big difference between me and you. I'm looking at 400 steps into the future. Okay. So if you do this, then what?

Everything was winging. Yeah.

I couldn't wrap my head around what that scenario would be, where he would be asking real, legit questions. And you'd be in this position to have to sort of lie. You know, that for me is so anxiety provoking. That's why I don't approach for so many reasons. We're just on such opposite ends of the spectrum where I'll find the teeniest reason to not.

Okay.

You know, I'll find any reason to not do it. Sure. That's also stupid. That's unnecessary. I could just go up to someone and talk.

Yes.

Yeah. You're like searching for the reason to do it. And it's so interesting.

I will say that I would have never done this to an actual stranger. We do have friends in common. And I have been in those circles. I mean, it definitely was not true that I met him. Yeah.

I mean, that's what I was going to ask you. What would happen if he fell in love with you in that moment? Yeah. Very possible. Sure.

And you're sitting there like, oh, no, I would tell him way before.

I would never let it go that far. No. And then, though, do you feel like, is it weird to have started a relationship on this? I mean, I feel strong. But what if it was reversed and it was you and you found this out?

I think that there's something sweet about it, that the person is so interested and invested and thinks you're so great that they went to great lengths. When someone finds an intricate way into my life and puts a lot of effort into it, I like that. Okay.

Do you? No. Okay. Not at all.

What?

To me, that's creepy. If they know a lot about me.

But they do. People do know a lot about you. They do. Yeah.

And that's why this gets in a tricky public person, realm, right? Where he, Peter, is used to people being infatuated with him. Sure. And I know for you, you're like, well, no, but it's different. And it is.

For sure.

It's tricky.

So if I could redo it, I would have never done the number thing. And I didn't like that part. afterwards. I deleted it and I was like, I don't want to have this information about him. But now, looking back, I'm like, that wasn't necessary because I got advised and I took the advice.

Again, it's true. Exactly.

And I think that would have even kind of been enough. Of course. And I would do it differently. That sets you up to also have a more positive exchange. And again, I just want to make it clear.

I mean, I think for me, there's also a stubbornness that happens where I don't even want to give that person power. To me, going to those lengths, what you did, all the parts. I read that and I think, Liz, you don't need to do that. You have enough to offer that, you don't have to do this.

Sure. Okay. That's a very valid point.

I think that is more for me. It's like all of a sudden, he has all the leverage, all the power. You are pining for him. Right. Nothing feels equal about it in any way, shape, or form.

Yeah.

But that part gets so tricky. And I think I'm stubborn about giving anyone else that power. I'm also allergic to people giving it to me.

Oh, okay.

I can feel it. I can feel when they have put me somewhere else.

How can you tell?

I don't know if I can label it, necessarily. There's someone I know who has me on a pedestal. I run into this person every now and then. And it's so obvious in every interaction. And it's very sweet and kind.

Why aren't you attracted to that? To someone thinking you're amazing?

But it's not about thinking I'm amazing. It's not that. It's about thinking my world is amazing. My life is amazing. Me, but it's not just like I talked to someone for ten minutes and they were like, You're really cool.

Strangers are interested in listening to you talk. And I'm not equivocating. A ten-minute conversation, one-on-one with a person. With a conversation you're having on a podcast that they're listening to. But what is the difference?

Because that's a parasocial relationship. And the other one is a real relationship. The other one is actually connecting based on whatever mutual thing we are talking about organically. Not just hearing what I have to say about who knows what. That's not real.

But then, if they're meeting you in person, it's becoming real. But it's based on having such a fondness for you and the conversations you're having behind a mic. Why is that not attractive?

Well, maybe there's a sense of I'll never, I don't know.

What was that sense? You can't live up to?

I was going to say that, but I don't think that's right. But I'll say it, I guess. Maybe I can't be the person they think I am because I'm just a real person. That's like a therapy version of it, but I think that's not it. I think I just don't find it attractive when it's based on something not present or not connected to them.

How do you know, though?

Well, there's a stranger. I have no connection to them. They have a connection to me. Until, yes, if we meet. I'm not saying this is a blanket statement, but that's a big hurdle for me.

But I guess what I'm trying to disentangle is why someone admiring you is unattractive to you. Isn't that the exact type of person you want to date? Someone who admires and respects and loves listening to you talk and thinks you're amazing?

I don't want them to like listening to me talk, not to them, though. Maybe just because I have lived so many fantasy lives.

Do you think you're projecting that onto them, that maybe that's not what they're doing?

Maybe. But I think it's a really slippery slope. I think your idea of Peter is a fantasy.

100%.

And we all do this. I don't think you can help it when you are attracted to this person who you've never met, but you feel like you're connected. Sure. You're not connected because you've never actually made a connection. You just like the person.

Okay, can I push back? Of course. And this has happened to me, with friendships. Going up to people that I admire and love their work and telling them has resulted in romantic relationships and so many friendships, actually. Yeah.

So same, right, for you. I knew of you and your work, and it was like, oh my God, Liz is so smart and cool. But when I'm with you, I'm not thinking about Liz, who's a writer and smart, and on MSNBC. We have a relationship. now.

But does that happen to you a lot? That's the thing. I'm wondering where that's coming from, because I know literally so many people who love you for you and listen to this. And I guess, because maybe some people have put your life on a pedestal, or, again, your connections or what they imagine your life to be, on that pedestal, instead of valuing you and loving you for who you are and what you're doing and the work that you do. I think that's a majority of people.

I mean, in talking about it, I'm definitely wrong, I think. I mean, I do think it's not a great way to go about relationships. When it's friendships, though, I am much less of it. I still – I need a friendship to be based on something real. But I'm not as perturbed by it.

No. I think you also find out in person how that feels. I've had romantic interactions with people who I can tell, like, oh, you like that, I'm, like, shiny. And then there's other people that are, like, really interested in what I'm passionate about and what I care about, and the essence of who I am and the essence of my work, as opposed to the shiny aspects of it. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right.

You have no idea how many people text me or want you to come to stuff. Galas? Galas, yeah. We need a gala invite. Well, Monica, really more than me, because I don't have a dress yet.

I have three dresses that I need to wear to galas. And so I'm putting out a reverse invitation. I'm putting out an invitation for an invitation. Yes. To three galas.

Plus ones. I would like to go.

Obviously. Plus ones. Plus ones.

But also one of the galas that you're going to go to is a person that is very cool and was like, I love Monica. Oh, my gosh. And then I was like, yeah, I'll introduce you. People love you.

I hope we can go to that gala. I hope so, too. It seems like a really fun one. I think it's going to be top notch.

Peter might be there. Peter might be there. And I will pretend like I was not the person in the public place. Wait.

Okay, Liz. One more question about that. Logistically. Because what if you guys do at the gala talk and really connect? And he's like, hey, can I get your number?

Oh, that's a good question. I don't foresee that happening. But I think I would kind of play. This is what I do. This is what I don't like, because every time you lie, it's a problem.

It has 17 other lies attached.

Exactly. The lies just grow and grow. I think I would look truly off the cuff. I would be like, I think we have each other's number. I think I already have your number saved.

That's pretty good.

Really? Okay, great. And then if we go on a date and then he likes me and I like him, because that's also important.

100%. I want that to actually be reversed. You like him and he likes you.

That's a whole episode, I feel like, for women. I think some men do that, too. But I don't know if it's like a factory setting for women that you have to unlearn. But then, once we've established that this is maybe something we want to pursue, I would come clean. Within the first few dates.

And he'd probably laugh.

It probably would be fine. I'm sure it would be fine.

Yes. That's just really funny.

Because then he likes me and there's other information as opposed to just the information of like, I stumbled across.

Yeah. Well, we have pins. We have pins. But we're going to have to save them for next week because we have to get into a couple questions that people have written in. Let's see if any of them are ding, ding, dings.

Oh, my gosh.

Your favorite thing. A mediator, etc. And I love it. I love that people need me or know they can come to me and I will be there. I pride myself on those traits as a mother, daughter, sister, wife, professional, and friend.

How do you think we do it in different ways?

I actually don't think I'm a people pleaser. generally. It's not that every person I come across, I need them to, I mean, I do want them to like me a lot. But it's mainly for people in my close proximity, in my life, that I am very codependent. And then I felt that I was starting to go there with you.

Yeah.

We talked about this, obviously. But a while ago, there was a situation in which nothing, really, you just weren't texting back, which wasn't that common for us at the time. And you weren't doing anything wrong. You just were not responding. And I spiraled out.

You know. It got to my therapist.

Emailed. Somehow, somehow. Finally, yes. That was the last straw. Because I did convince one of our mutual friends.

Physiologically. Yes.

That my well-being is so hyper-connected to another person's. And you can't live like that. So I had to really take a step back and be like, I can't do that. And she's a grown-up. I texted Dax.

Happiness, moods. Exactly. And I was also very codependent on you. Yeah. And mine looks like latching on.

Well, I have many.

Well, we all have many, right? I think codependency is kind of a controversial take, but it helped me. Codependency is, I think, kind of the most narcissistic of the things. And it's not because you're a bad person and you're selfish in all the ways that we tend to think about narcissism. It's that you're so overwhelmed by what's going on internally for you.

Yes.

Or my mom loves me, but she has to go to work and do three jobs, and she's never around.

And my behavior will affect how happy they are. And when you're a kid, you are connected. Totally. Like, there is no boundary setting. when you're a kid.

And it's not even just that boundaries don't exist. At a certain level of age, your parent is not a separate person from you.

That's what I mean. You're one being. Yes. You are totally, actually dependent for your livelihood and survival on them.

I feel like when I'm in a codependent spiral, it's that. It's literally like there is no separation, and what's happening to them is happening to me. And unless they're okay, I'm not okay. It gets to the point where, yeah, you'll do things that you, you know, afterwards you're like, that's crazy. But at the time, it's so overwhelming.

Exactly. It's not like toxic. I know. Codependency is obviously across the board. And people pleasing is too.

I think that's a really good tip. Part of codependency is just saying yes right away. Yeah. Sure. Where you don't even pause.

Yes.

And so that can look like literally taking a pause or taking a breath. Or even saying for a while when people ask you for stuff, let me think about that and I'll let you know. Even just that. And then it gives you a buffer to actually sit with it and not just do things kind of reflexively. And I think the other thing is to, like, examine the shoulds and the have tos.

Do you really have to do this?

I'd be like, oh, I have to do this. And then it was just my therapist being like, well, what if you don't do that? Yeah. Like, let's just go through the motion of this thing you absolutely think you absolutely have to do and you cannot have, you know. And then get to the point where, like, oh, I guess I could not do it.

I've just also sort of adopted, just being so honest. Yeah. The other day I was supposed to have dinner with two of my very best friends at their house. It was scheduled for last week and I had to cancel because of a real reason. And then we rescheduled it for Tuesday.

Yeah.

I can't go do this today. I need a night where I am just sitting in my bed and recharging. I need that right now. And I did feel really bad because I had already canceled once. Of course.

Of course. If they love you. No one is like, I'd rather you come at gunpoint. Exactly. That you're holding.

Not that specifically, but this behavior can lead to a lot of resentment.

So if you have resentment in your life, that's a very clear sign. You're not saying the truth or you're not obeying your own truth.

Yes.

And I think that, the way you put it to me, it was also a very big epiphany where I was like, I'm just going to tell the truth about how I feel, about when I want a conversation to end, about what I think about what someone said. There's so much that you end up withholding and you're like, why am I withholding this? Based on an idea that this will make the person upset, because I've decided. There's so much of it that you're playing out in your head. And so much of it is internal.

It's okay, actually. Yes. Because if it's a relationship you care about, even if they're mad at you, they'll not be mad at you at some point. Or they'll talk to you about it.

They'll talk to you. That's actually, so, our mutual friend, Kate, we were at dinner this week and she was like, the only time where I'm dysregulated and I have all these codependency things and like these weird sort of toxic behaviors is when I'm around people who aren't communicating their emotions directly. Yes. And then I'm like a crazy person. And so that's a big part of it too.

Totally. And one last thing I will say on this is I think that we can flay, if you're a people pleaser, if you show up, like that, people will like you. And I don't think that's true. I think what it does is reiterate that behavior. It'll reiterate, oh, she'll always be here.

Oh, they'll keep pushing it.

Like. you've taught them that you will be this person to them. So if you want it to change, that's on you a little bit.

Yeah. It's hard. Okay.

Well, that was good. That was good.

That was great. Great question.

Yeah. Great question. Okay. Here's a quickie, because then we got to wrap it up. This is from Carly.

Oh, my gosh.

Carly. Hi, Carly. Hi, Monica and Liz. Both of you dress so well, and I feel like you express yourself so wonderfully through your outfits. I would love to make my wardrobe more stylish and expressive, but I feel like I gravitate toward the same T-shirt and jeans combos.

Oh, my gosh. Great Q. I love this Q.

Yes.

You're the style queen. You should start.

You have a great style, and it's very specific. And I think both of our styles are specific.

That's true and different.

Yes. Yes. I learned a hack. I mean, if we're just going practical, I learned two hacks recently. One from Nicole Chavez, who is a stylist to the stars, Kristen, and many other people, and is a friend.

R.I.P.

Really sad. Shouldn't have said that. Yeah, that was specific.

I mean, her style will live on. That's what's amazing.

Exactly. And she's an incredible style icon. So, okay, I'll change it to, is this sweatshirt colorful, sophisticated? And then that can help you narrow everything down when you're at a store. Does it fit into what you're trying to do?

Smart.

Or another person has said you give your style three words. Casual. Put together, that's a hyphen. And tailored. Ooh.

Yeah. What do you think? I love that. It's so funny because I'm like sitting here, I'm like, what is my advice? What's yours?

Oh, you like more minimal?

Not even minimal, but having a set few pieces that are your go-to's or staples that you can even spend a little bit more on. I think a leather jacket is a perfect example. Every time I'm like, oh, it's so expensive. Do I really need to buy like a... No.

Price per wear.

Price per wear.

PPW.

PPW. Beige pumps for me. Oh, yeah. So expensive. I get more out of that than a $20 pair of jeans because I wear them and they elevate any kind of outfit, right?

Or inform your mood.

Yes, it can transform your mood. I'm not good at makeup and I feel like that's how some women approach makeup. They're feeling shitty and they'll just do an amazing... Can I? Yeah.

I love that. Also, I don't think clothes should have pejoratives necessarily. Because even looking at it and saying, is this too weird?

To me, weird is not even a negative, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out there or something.

And I'll say, to add to your point, when I was at Vox, I had my first opportunity to have a stylist, Pam Shepard. Ooh. Shout out. The best. And one thing that I remember, because I came in and I was like, I want to be comfortable and I want to be sporty and I wear leggings and big sweaters.

Yes. And mood boards are great and slash Instagram, slash Vogue or Pinterest, any of these things. Copy people. I literally got a sweater Rihanna had because I want to be her. It's great.

It looks great on you.

So you see a thing, you like the person, you like their vibe. Get it. Get it or get a copycat version of it, or something. Okay. So what are your three style words?

Oh, my God. It's such a good question. Definitely comfy. I feel every, I can't wear wool. So yeah, for me, materials, actually, they're just important.

Yeah.

It doesn't have to be like very fancy material, but if I don't feel good in what I'm wearing, even if it looks incredible, it's not going to look incredible. Even shoes, right? If you're wearing shoes that are gorgeous, but you can't walk confidently in them, it's.

not worth it. No, agreed.

So I feel like something can look amazing, but is it comfortable? Do you feel like you can move and be yourself in it? Yeah. I think it's really important. Comfortable.

I think those three are a great synopsis of your style.

Color, comfort, sporty. Okay.

Yeah, that's good. I like that.

That's what you're today, your outfit is yelling. I'm like, I really want the outfit you're wearing.

Yeah. This is pretty cash.

But it's beautiful cash. It's like giving me like Aspen- Oh, gosh. Apres Ski vibes.

I love that.