YOU Control Your Financial Destiny, No One Else Does
2024-03-11 01:57:00
The Ramsey Show believes you can build wealth and take control of your life—no matter what stupid mistakes you've made with money. Join as Dave Ramsey and his team of experts answer your questions on the top problems holding you back. Listen now or ask your question live by calling 888.825.5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET. Learn more at www.ramseysolutions.com
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Number one best-selling author and host of an ever-popular YouTube podcast, George Camel, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We appreciate you hanging out. Open phones at 888-825-5225..
And let's just start off with Dave not pushing the right buttons. Anna is in Detroit. Hey, Anna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi. How are you? Thanks for having me.
Sure. What's up?
Well, a little bit of a situation, and I'm hoping maybe you can give me some advice. My husband bought our house from his mom 19 years ago. She had quite a few houses at the time and decided that she could sell one of them to him. He was 19 at the time, went through a closing with a proper close agent, and signed all the papers. He is the only name on the warranty deed, and has been responsible in living in this house for this past 19 years.
A couple of years ago, she had asked us for quite a sum of money, and we said we couldn't afford it. So in retaliation, she went to the county clerk and filed a fraudulent quick claim deed on the house, claiming that our house is now her house.
There's no checks and balances with that system.
So-.
And it went through, and everybody-.
Oh, yeah, the checks and balances are. you put her in jail for fraud.
Yeah.
Because she's a freaking crook. She's a criminal.
It's been two years, and we're still fighting, and now, instead of getting our day in court, they're saying that it's going to either cost us $20,000 to take it to court, or we can pay the ransom, and maybe settle for something less, and just pay to get rid of it, to pay to get out of it.
You mean pay her?
Yeah, a settlement, right?
So why have you not filed criminal charges?
Well, we went-. I talked to the county clerk, and she said, oh, you need to get an attorney to-. Yeah. You know, the quiet title. So that's what we did.
And-.
And your attorney needed to tell you, to advise you to fire criminal charges. Someone stole your house. It just happens to be that you know the crook.
Right. That it's related. But he said, well, that would be a separate lawsuit, and that wouldn't get you the quiet title that you need to free up your house. That would be a whole separate matter.
I disagree.
I'll help you to get your quiet title, but then maybe on another point, and I'm like, man, we've always spent so much money trying to get the quiet title, and so now we're really looking at maybe just calling the police and starting a report.
Yeah. I think I would. Okay. I think I would file criminal charges on her.
And that's the thing. We thought. maybe it was just a misstep.
Because obviously this is not someone that you have- that your husband has a relationship with his mother. No mother-, No. Not anymore. In her right mind would act like this. This woman is deranged.
How long has he known? she's crazy?
A couple years. Well, now it's been two years.
He didn't know she was crazy before this?
No. He was young and a single parent, right? So you can't really-.
How long have you been married?
About 16, 17 years. Yeah.
How long have you known? she was crazy? Because I figured it out in about 30 seconds.
There was a lot of, you know, kind of red flags when we were first dating, but I started dating him when we were 16 years old. And so we were so young. I think we were very- I don't know. It was just-.
Well, you don't want your mom to be a crook or crazy. Nobody wants you to be a crook or crazy. Nobody wants that for their mom.
Exactly.
But some people's moms are, because obviously there's crooks and crazy women and men out there. So sometimes the dad is a moron, you know? I mean, it just is.
Very strong Christian raising to honor your mother and your father. And I think there was a lot of things that we just said, no, you know, she just needs help. No, if we can just pull her through. No, if we can just, you know, be there and help her get up on her feet. We did that for a lot of years.
And then, finally, I said, you know what? I told my husband, either our household or hers, but we can't be the man of both. Yeah. And he chose our household.
Good choice.
That's when the crazy came out. Yeah. Sure. I guess that's when it really came out.
When you set boundaries with crazy people, it accentuates they're crazy. Henry Cloud teaches us that in Boundaries 25 years ago. And now, yeah. Exactly. Okay, so you've got some choices.
Obviously, there's no relationship left, and it's a very sad situation. So what is the most practical process here?
It doesn't cost much to file a criminal complaint. Okay. There's not a lot of cost involved in that. That's why I'm shocked that this attorney in quotes didn't recommend that you do that as a part of the quiet title. Because here's the problem.
If your attorney that was quieting the title, quieted the title, and then said deranged mother-in-law decides to file another one, you get to do it over again, and he stays in business the rest of his life. So I want her having an incentive to stop this crap, and that's called jail.
Yeah. Well, yeah.
She's not going to jail, by the way. Darn it.
No.
She should. I don't. But they won't put her in jail. They'll settle with her. But she will get the message not to screw with y'all.
Yeah.
Okay. So who said it would cost 20 grand?
Not to file a criminal. It doesn't.
No. No.
You said they told me.
Yes. Our attorney, we've already paid him 40 over the past two years to get a quiet title. And now we're to the last bit of it, and he said, you either settle or we take this to court.
Yeah. Or fire him and get a real attorney. That's another option.
I've called different attorneys, but they said I'm too far into the matter to get another one.
No, you're not. No, you're not.
I've gotten all these stories, and I guess I just need some real good counsel.
The problem is sometimes when you're dealing with lawyers, they took the class on, they're always right, and they forget that they work for you. Right. He's your employee. He should do what you tell him to do, or she should do what you tell him to do. And that's what lawyers are supposed to do.
But instead, they took the class where they tell you what to do. And some of them are really confused by that class. So sometimes us real people have to explain to them, lawyer does not mean you do what you want to do. It means you do what I want you to do, as long as it's within ethics and within the law. And so, yeah, this has not been aggressively enough to suit me in the discussion I'm having with you.
If this happened to me, and I own a bunch of real estate, I don't care who filed that, I would have filed criminal the next day.
Okay. And I thought maybe I needed to get, you know, basically a judge to say, yeah, this is fraud, before I could go to the criminal and make that accusation.
If the judge says it's fraud, it should quiet the title instantaneously.
Right.
Because that invalidates the, it invalidates, take a judge ruling a fraud over to the county clerk and go, judge says this is fraud, you need to take this quick claim down. They'll take it down. That should quiet, that's the quieting of the title. That's what it means. It's just the cleaning up of a dirty title, because it's a fraudulent thing.
God, man, some people, who does this to their own kid? You whacked chick, unbelievable. Go to jail. Do not pass, go. Do not collect $200..
Go straight to jail. Monopoly.
She's like, good enough. It's over.
Just like Monopoly. This is the Ramsey Show.
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George Kemp, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. George, you know that we're going to be in business forever. Why is that? Because God keeps making people.
Are you insinuating that people are not the smartest all the time?
Some of us aren't. Some of us in this species have to start over. every so often. I do a lot of stupid stuff, but my personal rule is not to do the same stupid stuff over and over.
You evolved.
I try to.
. Well, I've evolved my... It's a higher level of stupid. There we go. Because the past level of stupid has been grown upon.
It's always right below the surface. You gotta watch out.
PhD in DUMB. I have graduated. Wow. There you go.
Deloney has two of those, I've heard.
He's not in that. He's got real ones. But there you go.
That's a good kind.
Today's question comes from Jason in Connecticut, who's also not evolved. Can we start treating Bitcoin the same way you would treat single stocks? Crud, son. I understand you're not a fan. No kidding.
Where'd you figure that out? But an asset with $1 trillion market cap is not a beanie baby.
No, but it's still thin air. Ask people like Warren Buffet, who says if he doubled the amount he had put in Bitcoin, he would still have zero, because that's the amount he's put in Bitcoin. I'm going with Warren on this one. Not saying you have to add it to your portfolio, but it's a good enough asset to invest 5%. No, it's not.
Okay. I don't know where the 5% comes from.
I don't know where the trillion dollar market cap comes from. Mist and smoke and mirrors, like the whole freaking concept.
While you were enjoying some time off, Bitcoin has shot from the ground to the moon and probably back up again. And so now everyone's getting... They're getting loud again. No way. No way.
Because it's hit all time highs, and so now everyone's going, see, Dave is wrong about this. You know what?
We've got something else that repeats itself, like gold. See, I've been doing this show for 32 years, and every so often gold goes up and everybody goes, see, Dave, I told you. And then it goes down, and those people just disappear. And then it goes up, and they go, see, Dave, I told you. You don't understand gold.
You don't really understand. Gold has value. Like what? Why does it have value? Because of people like you.
It's a commodity. That's where people get value. The only reason gold has value is two people agreed it had value, and they fought over it. That's the only reason. The same reason that green paper has value.
Two people agreed it had value, and they fought over it. That's what gives something value. So commodities are exactly the same way as currencies. And Bitcoin, someday, all kidding aside, all sarcasm aside, someday it may level out and become a thing. But, Jason, it's not there.
It's not there. I wouldn't wish a Bitcoin investment on somebody. I really dislike.
That's saying something.
I really wouldn't. I mean, I don't even want those people to lose money.
Well, even then, I see single stocks very differently, because stocks are based on a company's performance and revenue being created.
Well, that's because you're intelligent.
I didn't have to think that deeply to get there. And so, again, I'm not mad at Bitcoin, but to say Bitcoin is the same as a single stock is just not true.
No, Bitcoin is a currency.
It's speculation based on hype.
Currencies have no value, except for their track record. that indicates that two people are willing to fight over them. That's why the yen versus the dollar, the pound versus the dollar, the Deutschmark versus the yen, these things compared back and forth. It's the faith that people have in something. And of all the currencies, Bitcoin has the least faith.
It's the most.
I've heard a lyric once. You've got to have faith, Dave.
I wasn't going to go there. Oh, yeah. There's it. I mean, you just... It's not...
Yeah. So, it's going to continue to be volatile until it's not. And even then, I don't invest in the Iraqi dinar because it had Saddam Hussein's face on it, and no one has faith in that currency anymore. I don't invest in confederate dollars from the civil war because no one any longer has faith that they have value, except as a collectible. I no longer...
I do not invest in things where people have not established a long track record of faith. And even then, on a currency, I don't invest in a currency. I would utilize it. I would utilize it. So, to the point that I don't trust PayPal to be an exchange, that's a trust mechanism.
I don't use PayPal for an exchange. So, I don't even use Bitcoin for an exchange because it's too freaking out there for that even. But it's a currency, honey. It's not an investment. to George's point.
Well, Dave, you just don't understand the blockchain technology. And once you get it, you'll change your mind. That's the line I hear all the time. This guy doesn't understand the blockchain. It's the future.
Maybe it is.
You know, when you say stuff like that, it indicates you don't understand investments. So, we're going to help. Today we've launched a two-night virtual event, online event, of me teaching my personal playbook on investments. It will not include Bitcoin, except to trash it thoroughly further. So, if you want more entertainment...
That's worth buying a ticket just for that.
If you want more entertainment, come join us. George is going to help me with this event. It is Dave Ramsey's Investing Essentials. A lot of the TikTok goobers have been asking about my actual real estate portfolio, my personal actual formulas that I use. We're going to go into those, the real estate stuff.
I'm going to show you what I do. I'm going to show you what I invest in. I'm going to show you what people that I walk around with that are personal friends, invest in. that have $10, $20, $30, $100, $200 million portfolios, millionaires, not your broke brother-in-law living in his mother's basement with an opinion because he's on TikTok. Don't listen to people like that.
You're going to be as broke as they are and look as dumb as they do. Don't do that. Guys, I don't know a lot. I can't fix your car. I used to get a Turner Wrench because I'm an old redneck, but now, when I open the car, it looks like a spaceship to me, so I can't help you with that.
But this, I do every day, personally, for me. And I have walked with people who really do it and who really have substantial assets. And so there are some basic principles and processes, investing essentials, we could call them, to picking an investment, sticking with it, when to abandon, how to analyze that real investors, not get-rich-quick morons, use. And so we're going to go into all that. It's May 21st, 22nd.
Tickets go on sale. today. It's at our website, ramsaysolutions.com slash events. I'll just turn this into a big old ad right now.
And it's completely virtual, which is cool because you can join from wherever you are.
We will not accept payment for this by Bitcoin.
That would be hilarious. We will not.
And we will not accept payment for this on a credit card, because we don't take credit cards. We don't believe in those either. Because we actually do the stuff that we teach around here. We're not hypocrites and stuff. So I actually live this way.
I have four pieces of plastic in my pocket, a debit card on my business, a debit card on my personal account, my driver's license, and my handgun carry permit. That's all that's in my wallet. I don't have anything else. And all the rednecks just said amen. But that's it, man.
That's all you need. That's all you need.
That's all you need.
That'll work.
That'll work. So we're going to cover the basics. We're also going to get into the specifics that Dave mentioned, from mutual funds to real estate, how to maximize your 401k.
That's a starting point.
And Dave's personal strategy. And then investing trends. What's going on out there? Which ones should you avoid? Which ones are actually good?
And get your tickets. Because it's virtual, so this event can't technically sell out. But there will be a limit to the technology.
You can't decide that old people are out of touch or they have more experience than you.
Which is it? Because I've seen four cycles in my adult life of the nothing down real estate. come and go. Four cycles of it. We're in the fourth right now on TikTok.
And a little bit on Instagram. But I've seen four of them. Some of you aren't old enough to have seen one of them. And so you're going to fall headlong into it, like I did the first time, and bloody your freaking nose. So you can decide, do old people have wisdom from their experience?
Or are they out of touch and they don't understand blockchain technology? You don't understand because you didn't grow up with an iPhone in your hand. You didn't use it as a pacifier, so you don't know how the world works. See, you can decide that if you want. Or you can decide to actually freaking, learn something.
I don't care which. I'll be okay either way. But we'd love to have you come to this, because we're going to have a lot of fun. Can you tell? I'm a little jacked up about this.
Yeah, I'm getting excited, just dreaming about what this content will be.
Good stuff. So join us.
Ramseysolutions.
com slash events.
Oh, it's $199 for two nights. We're going to do about two hours each night. So do it. Figure it out. Like $50 an hour is what you're going to have in this.
Your spouse can join?
Yeah. Get the neighbors over. We'll all watch it on the... It's like pay-per-view. You can watch it on your blockchain.
I mean, on your Apple TV. You know, whatever it is. You can do that. I'm kidding. I actually do know how to do that.
I watched a movie on Apple TV last night. Look at you. Off of my iPhone.
Old dog can't learn new tricks.
I did do the mirroring, the whole bit, so just shut up.
This guy's airplane over here. Yeah. Don't say he's out of touch.
A friend of mine that just funded a movie, sent me the whole movie. It's not out yet. Asked me to watch it. It was fabulous. This is The Ramsey Show.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey, good folks. It's Deloney. And with back-to-school madness on deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise, and date nights, and counseling, and all the other things that make our life even worth living.
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George Campbell, Ramsey, personality, best-selling author, is my co-host. Open phones this hour, in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. In addition to a couple hundred of our best friends drinking our free coffee, eating our free cookies, on the debt-free stage, Eric and Amanda are with us. Hey, guys. How are you?
Doing all right?
How are you today?
Oh, you'll be okay. We've never lost a patient. Okay. You'll be all right.
I haven't either. That's good.
That's good news. So, where are you guys from?
Right now, we're living in Memphis, Tennessee.
Okay. What's right now? Where are you going?
Military. So, we've moved around quite a bit. Ah.
We've been all over.
Thanks for your service. Which branch? Navy?
Navy. Yeah.
Figured you'd be in Memphis. Okay, cool. Good to have you guys. So, how much debt have you paid off?
$73,000.
Wow. How long did this take?
About three years and four months.
All right. And your range of income during that time?
$99,000 all the way up to $110,000.
Excellent. And, Amanda, what do you do for a living?
I'm an operating room nurse.
Oh, so you haven't lost a patient either. That's what you're saying. Yeah. That's good. Well, we have this in common, then.
Yeah. It's very good. Although, yours were more at risk than mine. But, yeah.
What do you do in the military, Eric?
I work as a data scientist for Navy recruiting.
Ah, very neat. Ah. Yeah. So, an after-military career that looks very lucrative to me. Well done.
Good for you guys. Good job. So, what kind of debt was this $73,000?.
Oh, we had mostly my student loans, Eric's student loans, his little Miata. we had to pay off.
His little Miata. Yeah.
He really wanted to. So, we did pay it off. I had to ask him if he was sure he wanted to do that, but we did. So, we're still driving it. And then we had some medical debt as well.
Ah, very cool. Very cool. So, how long you two been married?
We had our wedding in 2021, but we got married in 2020.
Pandemic.
OK. All right. So, you've been married four years, and three years and some change. You've been working on this. So, how'd you get connected and decide to do this Ramsey journey stuff?
I was the Ramsey person before I met Eric. So, I actually met him when I was a traveling nurse, and it put me in Charleston, where he was at the time. So, we met out there, and I was already doing this Ramsey stuff, and then we were dating for a while. And the pandemic hit, and we were talking about possibly getting married, and we had to have some serious conversations about what I was wanting to do financially, what our goals were together. We had to come up with a plan together, and I kind of got him bought in on the Ramsey stuff.
So, Eric, she wanted to have the define the relationship. DTR. That's right. Discussion here.
So, you were like, well, I want to become debt free. So, if you want to be with me, you want to be with me.
I was grinding. It's always like, this has got to be a part of your life, too.
I'm travel nursing in the pandemic, so this is real.
Yes, yes, it was serious.
It was good money, but it was real scary. There was a lot of crap going on.
I was terrified.
Wow, I guarantee you. So, Eric, she comes in and says, I kind of like you, but we've got to get aligned. What did you say?
At first, I thought I knew everything about money. Turns out, I was not financially literate, and the concept of positive net worth really made me angry for some reason, because I didn't have positive net worth at the time. You were a financial genius who was broke. Exactly. We know a lot of those.
I let him know gently, though. It was nice. It's good. It's so nice.
You just seem sweet and nice. I mean, better than delivering him up to us.
You're passive, aggressive. It's a little, Miata.
It's a little Miata.
That's fun. So you guys get married, and it was just like combined incomes, let's go. Did it give you hope when you saw the numbers as you laid out your first budget? It did.
Yeah, life was really confusing, because he was getting moved again in the military, and I was like, I'm not going unless we're on the same page. And so it was really muddled for a while for us during the pandemic. I was terrified. In surgery, the nurses were not getting as many hours, so I was working as much as I could, because I was afraid I was going to get fired. So everything was just really terrifying for us.
And so, once we decided to do life together, it really just took off from there, and it was such a relief to get on the same page.
Wait a minute, you were doing travel nursing in the OR?
Yeah. Yeah, that's where the money's at.
OK. But not during the pandemic. The money was other places. I was traveling. We had some nurses that were making unbelievable money standing on this stage during that time.
But in surgery, it was a little bit different.
Yeah, because a lot of it's elective, and they just say, well, just wait.
Yeah, we can't do this right now. And so we were dropping like flies out there on the OR side.
No pun intended. That's careful, careful. I could go bad on a sound bite. That could be really bad. Way to go, you guys.
All right, so you get together, and you say, we defined this. We're going to get after it. And you paid off $73,000.. What do you tell people? the secret to getting out of debt is in three years?
I think, stop taking advice from broke people. And you definitely have to be on the same page. It just makes, not just with money, but with life. It just makes things so much easier.
Finances are like a small part of it, but you really have to get on the same page. But it really helps if the financial part isn't the struggle in your relationship. Everything else seems to work out. But yeah, you've got to be on the same page. And then baby steps, too.
When people want to ask me about getting out of debt, it's like, just follow the baby steps. They're not that hard.
Yeah, it worked. I'm proud of y'all. Well done. Thank you. Who was cheering for you?
Mostly ourselves.
She was. She was the biggest cheerleader. She was my biggest cheerleader.
And families just kind of looking on, thinking you're weird?
Yeah, a lot of people didn't get it. We had a lot of naysayers, but mostly just people that didn't get it. They were just like, oh, OK, yeah, if that's what you're going to do. And I was moving around a lot, and people didn't understand that either.
I did have some friends in the Navy, though, that had recently become debt free when we decided to get married. So shout out to Nick and Alicia Cordell for being some cheerleaders for us.
Yeah, because they got debt free, and that's what finally brought them into everything, because I had preached a lot and was waiting for him to patiently understand what I was doing. But then I think his friends becoming debt free really helped him.
There's nothing like having somebody walk up in front of you and go, I just did this, and it's not theory.
Yeah, it flipped a switch for him.
Yeah, it does. It does for me, because I'm pretty cynical. I mean, it takes me a minute to come around. And I know you can't imagine that. But then, when you see the actual proof, and that makes a difference.
And that's the difference in someone tuning into the show today or tuning into the show 30 years ago. It was just me on the air trying to get people to do this stuff, and nobody had done it. Now we've got thousands of debt free streams.
Get the social proof.
Yeah, thousands of debt free streams on YouTube, yeah. So way to go, y'all. So proud of you. Excellent job. Thank you.
Hey, we've got a couple of every dollar gift cards for you that are one year subscriptions, one for you guys to tie into the bank and keep working what you're working so you can hit that Baby Steps Millionaires next step, and one for you to give away and get somebody else converted and get them going in that direction. So to say, thank you. And again, thanks for your service, both of you, for what you do. You both serve society. It's a strong thing, and I'm glad you're prospering as a result.
It's very, very, very good. Eric and Amanda, Memphis, Tennessee. $73,000 paid off in three years and four months, making $99 to $110.. Count it down. Let's hear the debt free scream.
Three, two, one. We're debt free!
We're debt free! We're debt free! There we go.
That'll wake you up. There we go.
That was like 70 milligrams of caffeine restrained to the main vein right there. I needed that.
You know, if people, all the old people out there, are going, I've been married 25 years. I've been married 35 years. I've been married 45 years. I wish that I was like that young couple that started back then. When we first got married, we had this, we're debt free 100%.
We're not even 30, and we got the rest. Oh, you're going to be so rich.
Blows my mind.
Be so rich.
And it started with-.
It was kind of like you. You were that way. Oh, yeah. You got started, you know.
And I relate to Eric, because I had to swallow my own pride and go, oh, maybe I'm not a financial genius, because I'm over here looking at my net worth, trying to brag about my credit card rewards, and how I got a free flight paid for.
But you even had it worse. I mean, you had to come to work here every day. You're like an intern. Brutal. And, you know, well, I mean, you're in the midst of people, all that actually believe this stuff, and actually are doing this stuff.
You can't not be confronted accidentally by it.
No. And like you said-.
It's a hard place to work.
We're not hypocrites around here, and people so badly want to go, I know, I bet those Ramsey people have a credit card. Nope. I mean, you can check my wall at the door. You ain't going to find one, because I not only believe this stuff, I've lived it. I've seen it.
I've had the experience of going, life is better living this way. Living without debt. Not playing this game set before us by society.
Well, I mean, because the Miata dealership, they'll get you.
That little Miata will get you. That's what I've learned.
They'll get you a little, Miata.
You're going to start saying, look at Georgian's little Tesla. It's going to be your new line.
Oh, it's paid for. Even if it burns up, it's paid for.
That's true.
I mean, even if it catches fire.
What insurance is for?
Even if the battery quits working and won't be recharged, it's paid for. You can just get you another battery, can't you?
Yeah, they're out there. I think Duracell makes them.
I think so. Run down to Walmart on aisle three.
Amazon two-day Prime Day.
Oh, I forgot. That's fun. There we go. This is The Ramsey Show.
George Campbell Ramsey personality, is my co-host. Thank you for joining us, American. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225..
All right.
Tyler is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Tyler. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.
Hey, Dave. Hey, George. Thanks for having me on.
Sure, man. What's up?
Well, I'm looking to get maybe some career advice on whether or not I should change a career field. So I'm a counselor in Dallas. I own a small private practice and my wife is a teacher here. We're planning on moving to Oklahoma here in the next few months to be closer to my wife's family. I'm trying to decide if I should try to rebuild my practice there or if I should try to aim for a more corporate, steady job with benefits in order to help kind of increase our income and provide some stability as we make the move.
Okay.
Well, I mean, it's kind of the question of, do I want to work in a corporate environment, a quote, unquote, steady job environment, or do I want to own my own business? Sure. Cause, running your own private practice is running your own business, right?
Correct. Are you solo right now?
I am solo. It's essentially a 1099.. I have an LFC that I run through, an S corp. So, you know, there's some tax advantages with that, but I've really been struggling with the instability of not knowing really how much it's going to come in each month. It's an up and down field.
And it would essentially take me about a year to rebuild a practice back to what I make right now. It's just about 75 to $80,000..
Okay. Um, there's no instability if you're booked up for six months in advance with a waiting list.
Correct.
So you've not built the business to that level of prosperity. It's not the business model that's broken. You don't have a full pipeline, and that's where the instability is coming from.
No, that's a good point.
I, I'm self-employed. I don't know what my income is going to be. It's not a steady paycheck. Thank God.
He likes it this way.
Cause it's, it's working out for me, you know? So, uh, yeah, that that's, that's, that's the answer. And sometimes, when I hear people on straight commission or that own their own business, we do a lot of work with business folks in the entre leadership brand and they say, well, you know, I can't handle the insecurity of it. It's no, what you can't handle is not making any money. You need to make some money.
You start making a lot of money. You can handle the insecurity. I mean, if you were bringing in the, if you're, if your volatility was between 300,000 and 400,000 and it was going to land somewhere in there, you could exist just fine, but that's not your, that's not your reality, right?
Correct.
So, if you are going to restart your counseling business in Oklahoma, you need to address that issue and you're going to have to spend a larger percentage of your time on building relationships that create referrals. Called marketing, um, to get your pipeline brimming full. I have friends that do that have solo practitioner counselors that you cannot get in to see. And they make ridiculous hourly rates. They're very, very good at what they do, but they built a practice and a reputation around town, among pastors, among teachers, among policemen, around anybody who makes a referral to a counselor that they really help people transform their lives.
I'm sure you do, but you're just young enough in the profession, uh, that you've not built that strong a reputation to get your pipeline brimming full. If you're going to go this route, you, that's, that's what you'd have to commit to, but if you don't want to spend any time working on the marketing stuff, or that makes you nervous, all you want to do is sit in the chair, then you probably do need to work for somebody else. And that's not a bad thing. It's just an, it's just an observation of who you are and what you want to work on.
I think the part that I'm struggling with is knowing that my wife will take about a $15,000 hit per salary versus, you know, Texas, versus, um, Oklahoma. And I'm struggling to know if, uh, which is the right move of, you know, if I can wait six months, cause that's about how long it would, uh, it takes on average.
Do you have the money to wait six months and eat on her 15% reduction?
Uh, it, it would be a stretch, but we could do it.
Okay. Well, that's what it takes to open a business and make the move to be near her family.
So see, part of this is you want to, it's all romantic. We're going to go for her. We're all going to be moving and be with family and back home. And I'm all warm and fuzzy. Oh, wait, there's no food in the cabinet.
And so the warm and fuzzy goes away pretty quick then. And you start facing the reality of what this move means. And so the two of you probably need to talk about that, that if we're making this move to be near your family, which would probably be her request, most likely then, uh, and that's okay. It's an okay thing to do. And I'm not saying it's morally wrong or something, but you need to also embrace what goes with that, which is I'm going to have to take a job or I'm, or we're going to have to go live on beans and rice for six months until I get some, get some, uh, uh, some time booked, your license is transferable from Texas to Oklahoma, I assume.
Uh, not necessarily. I have to redo the licensing process, which is another complicated piece of it. But it should take about three months.
Okay. Uh, the career gig you're looking at, uh, is it in the counseling field?
For a corporate setting?
Yes.
Uh, no, it would be, uh, an insurance brokerage.
Why?
Um, not necessarily that I'm interested in the field itself, but I just would provide probably a little more long-term stability in terms of not having to, uh, uh, being a salaried employee and having 401k in retirement.
Please don't do that. You will hate yourself. in three years. You're taking a job only for the money and the benefits and the quote unquote stability. And I'm trying to remind you that stability is a method, is mythology.
It only comes from a full pipeline, by the way, if you're an insurance brokerage and you don't do some insurance brokerage, you're going to be gone. They don't keep you. There is no stability.
And you don't, you don't even like it. You were just doing it because it's there for food. Yeah.
I mean, there's zero excitement in your voice when you mentioned it. That scares me.
I almost went to sleep. Yeah, it was bad. And just, no, I, yeah, don't do that, man. You need to, you need to be on the, cause. you're counseling makes your blood flow, dude.
It does. You're right. Yeah. It's been a long time in school to do it.
And, and you like it, you like the, you, you like guiding people as they transform their lives, and you're probably good at it.
I hope I'm, I'm still relatively new in it. Um, so which has been one of the reasons why it's taken me so long to build up the practice.
I would love for you to land something that adds substantial income, even if it's a full-time gig, to your household for one year, but not as a long-term play. I don't care if it's insurance, brokerage or anything else, but going there with the idea, I'm going to work somewhere for one year while I get through the licensing process, get my practice set up part-time, in the evenings and on Saturdays, and start to fill up my pipeline. and let's take a year and make the move and not put our family on bread and, um, then, but let's have a plan to where, within 24 months, you're opening your practice. And it's a little bit more of a solid handoff than this zero or from, you know, the level of practice. you've gotten out of zero, and then you've got to rebuild all the way from scratch.
And you do know how hard that is because you did it once.
And the cool thing is, there's a lot of virtual appointments happening now in the counseling world to where, who knows, he can move a lot of those people with him to Oklahoma.
You know, I wonder if those virtual folks that Deloney endorsed better help. I wonder if they would, if they do contract on the side, if you could just cut into contract, contact with them and join as one of their, just join as one of their counselors, I think they probably do. that's probably what their.
network of counselors that they trust and vet. And so I think it's a great option for him as well to get started.
Probably not some kind of big non-compete there for building your own practice on the side. As long as you're not stealing their customers. And I was, I would think that's the kind of thing I would look for. Now. check better, help and see if they're hiring on a contract basis.
And if that'll fill in the difference while you get your, uh, license moved, of course, you probably got to get the license moved if you're going to move physically before you can do that. But anyway, yeah, to the point, it's not reciprocal. It takes three months. He said, so, okay. Anyway, you can just kind of work through your logistics here, but where you need to end up as doing something you love, dude, you were put on this planet to help people with the, with your counsel skill.
Now fill up your pipeline, and that will do away with your need for benefits and stability, because those are an illusion. Benefits and stability both come when you make money, lots of it, fill up your pipeline over full over full, raise your rates, hourly rates that are the highest in the market. Cause you're the best in the market and you can't get into see old Tyler for six months because old Tyler's the best. And that's where you need to set yourself up four years from now. This is the Ramsey show live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions.
It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, number one, best selling author, and a host of multiple YouTube hit shows, including smart money, happy hour on the Ramsey network. He's my cohost today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Brianna is with us.
She's in Las Vegas. Hi, Brianna. How are you? Hi, I'm actually Brenna from, oh, it's my fault. They spelled it right.
And I pronounced it wrong. Can't blame the phone screen or my fault. Brenna. I see it now. I'm sorry.
What's up?
That's okay. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I'm so excited to talk to you guys.
You too.
So the root, the root of my question is, are we financially ready to buy a car? Because the thought of it is making me super nervous. Um, here's our numbers. We've got, um, about 50,000 saved in the bank. Um, separate from that, we have our emergency fund of about $30,000..
We took home last year between my husband and I about 115, and we have one car right now, um, it's a 2020 Honda CRV. it's worth about, uh, 20 to 23,. um, I looked it up like last month and we it's, it's running fine, we've been a one car family for about eight years, but we've got a little one now and the juggling of the car and work and all that has been a little bit of a headache and it would make our lives easier to have that second car, buy a freaking car.
What are you waiting for?
It's just making me so nervous to like give up that money.
And then you're a hundred percent debt-free, right?
We are. Yeah. We have a house. We're on baby step four, five, six. So we've got a house.
Um, what are you thinking about on, what are you thinking about on the car? What price?
Um, I'm looking, I'm looking for like 25 to 33.
. Cause we do want a bigger car. Cause we're thinking about expanding our family. So we want something with maybe some extra seats. But the other factor is my husband works very sporadically.
Like he works for the movie industry. So he'll have a good, like six month run and then he'll not work for maybe a month or two. And we do really good at saving money during that time.
And you average 115.
Yes, that's. And we've had years where we go down as low as a hundred and up as high as, like one, 50 or more, but like last year, we were, how is the?
car going to cause that to crash?
That's a great question.
It's not because you're not, you've never dipped into your emergency fund. When he, when he doesn't work, uh, you do, he does something else, brings in a little bit of money, or you, you tap into savings just a little bit. I don't know how you, how you survive him when he's not working.
We save money when he is working. So we just budget like, so that we'll save money.
And that, that account will have $25,000 left in it. If you use 25 of the 50 to buy a car.
Right. It just makes me so nervous.
Well, what were you saving? the 50 for? Cause? I think money should have a goal. And I think the problem is you were just saving to save, and now it feels weird to use that money on a car and it feels frivolous, I guess that's true.
I'm, I'm very frugal.
I can tell.
I feel it. And I've been in your exact shoes where, as we made more, we became debt free. It's still hurt to write that check. And the car market is still stupid, expensive, but you are the prime demo, for it's time to buy the car. You've been a one car family for eight years.
This is a very reasonable purchase. It's not a big part of your world and you're doing it the right way.
You're not borrowing money. You're not justifying, you're not over buying to where you have $80,000 tied up in cars and you make 110.. That's dumb. Don't do that. Everything you, everything you brought up, every single number is aligned with what we teach.
And we're pretty stinking conservative. I think the difference is, yeah, this is popping an emotional bubble. That's all it is. And you just said it out loud and that's okay.
You've never written a check this big, except for probably a house, right?
Right. Only our down payment.
Yeah.
So it's more emotional than it is tied to reality and facts.
Yeah. That's okay. The richer you get, the better. at this you're going to be.
Cause you're going to get used to it. And, by the way, you're going to get rich because the stuff you're doing is so wise. Everything you've outlined. What, how old are you guys?
Uh, I'm 33.
. My husband's 38..
Yeah. You're going to be millionaires by the time you're 40.. So you're in really good shape.
You're going to look back one day and go, remember when I was freaking out over that $25,000 car?
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So. you're great. Listen, Brenna.
You just breathe by your car, breathe in by car. You're in great shape. I would, I, it's George Camel endorsed.
That's right. And I'm really frugal.
And yes, you are. That's true. You might, you are tighter than me.
But I married a very bougie, wonderful woman who I just bought a, you know, we bought her a new to her car and it hurt to write that check. It was cash, but it still hurt emotionally.
And you're not worth over a million.
And, and again, it was just the aspect of going. This is a lot of money.
Just the fact that you're a tightwad.
Exactly.
Exactly what it was.
But she deserved the car. Yeah.
That's all it is. I love it. She did deserve the car.
She deserves more than that.
No question. You, you work like a maniac. That's true. Y'all? don't know George's work schedule, man.
He works. So he earned it. Way to go, guys.
But I, like, I, have a hard time spending and it's hard for people to let go of that a little bit.
Dustin's in Los Angeles. Hi Dustin. What's up?
Hey guys. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. Well, how can I help?
Well, got a question for you. Uh, so, a little quick backstory on me, uh, 35 years old, small business owner, uh, started my business. I was 20 years old. Um, all of my twenties kind of lived on rice and beans. because I had no choice.
Um, grew the business and about 30 years old, the major lifestyle creep really started setting in. Um, started making some real money and just living way too high on the hog.
Um, made money and spent even more.
Uh, twice as much. I was the guy I'm like the poster guy for, for some of the dumb stuff you hear out there. So long, story short, about a year ago, I kind of found you guys, uh, right about the same time I got married and me and my wife said, we're done with this. We're done with payments. And in the last year we have paid off at about $350,000..
Look at you, dude. How can we help today?
Well, here's the thing. So we have our primary home and we also have our, our vacation home, um, pretty good equity in both. And we think we can afford both. My question is, do you think it would be wise just to sell off the vacation home?
Almost primary mortgage.
So, on the vacation home, I owe about 500,000.
. Uh, 400,000 on the primary, worth about a million.
What's your income nowadays?
How about four? Uh, household about 400..
So you got 900,000, you make 300, you paid off 350,000 in the last year. Correct. If you stayed at that rate, you'd be debt free. How are both houses? in three years?
You're not going to stay at that rate, but you could do it in three to five years.
And that was kind of our plan. Just do everything. Say we, our goal is five years, paid off and we're done.
I would do it. And if, if you hit a bump in the road, sell the vacation home in an instant. Don't hesitate.
We'll be done with it.
But as long as, as long as you're, as long as you're moving smooth in a three to a five-year plan, I would hold it and do it. Pay off your home first and the vacation home second. And then, if anything, if the business hits up, you know, if you have a pandemic problem or something, you know, and it just stops one day because the Fauci pandemic comes back or something. Hopefully Fauci won't come back, but his pandemic might. But anyway, it's all of that.
So yeah, pay off the vacation home second. And I think you're in good shape. You're doing good work. Proud of you. Hey, we're giving people permission to live here.
I can't believe it. What a fun row.
Wow.
Who says we're funny daddies?
Ah, just the daddy. This is the Ramsey show.
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George Campbell Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you are here. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Christa in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Hi, Christa. How are you?
Hey, Dave and George. I'm, I'm a little nervous, but excited. I hope y'all are doing well.
Better than we deserve. Happy to help. How can we?
Okay. So my question is, um, what to do if we have a loan that they won't let us make extra payments? So we've kind of come up with our own solution, but I just want to know.
Who's your loan with?
It's a, it's a 401k loan.
Oh, none of them allow extra payments. Okay. That's a standard part of the regulation. Okay.
So we, our solution, um, do you want me to just jump into it?
No, it's a, yeah. Tell us what your solution is.
Okay. So, um, the total on the loan was 18,000.. We've got it down to about 16,900.. Um, my husband just got a bonus and then we got, um, an income tax return. I know, shame, shame.
But we went ahead and went through our bank and took out a personal loan to cover the difference. To pay off the 401k loan. Then we can throw as much as we can on the extra payments towards the personal loan.
So you took out debt to pay off the debt.
So you've already done it. Great. So really what's your question? I mean, you've already done that the proper way.
You said you couldn't make extra payments.
They can't.
Well, we have enough to pay it in full. with the bonus and the tax return, we were just a little short. What's a little, uh, like right around 4,200..
And then you're just going to attack that and pay it off very, very rapidly. Right. Yes. It's not the end of the world. It's not what I would have done, but it's not the end of the world.
Okay. So what we tell folks to do is just set up an account, a savings account. This is your last debt or the place you are in the debt snowball. And just pile up money until you've got 16, nine in there and then write them a check, they will take a lump sum.
Okay. Yeah.
Which is what you're discovering.
That's what you would say. But yeah, I was just nervous to have the money sitting there where we could get to it.
You know, we're still, um, we've got to build that habit separately. Because you're always going to have some money sitting there.
I got a lot of money sitting there. None of it makes me nervous, but I've been in control for 30 years after I was out of control. So I don't know how long, how long have y'all been in control?
Uh, since about December.
Okay. Well, that would be normal to be nervous. then. Would you take out all the years prior to December, you were out of control and you got what? Three whole months of in control.
So that, yeah, that makes sense that you're nervous.
But the bank loan doesn't get rid of it. I mean, you still got the debt, so, you know, it's, it was just an illusion, but here's the thing, just work on going forward. Like you are managing money well, and then manage money. Well, act like you. act like you've made these adjustments and they're permanent in your behaviors.
Okay.
Yes.
Yeah. You've done good. You've done great.
I'd be nervous thinking about it.
Is this all of your debt? You have other debts?
Um, so we started in December. We actually took your class once in 2016,, once in 2017.. Um, but yeah, obviously it took a few years to get, get back on it. 50,000.. I am.
We are right now. Okay. We are right now. So excited about that. But, um, yeah, so we started off with 50 in December, um, 4,000 on a credit card.
18,000 was the 401k loan and 28 on a car loan.
Well, and we just made the last payment on the credit card. Personal finance, as you know, from Financial Peace University, is 80% behavior. The reason you're nervous is you flunked the class twice, right?
Exactly.
I mean, it's not being mean. You just, you did not change your perm, your habits permanently. So now you're going back for a third time, and that's made that, you know, your, your pattern of not following through is rattling around in your brain. And it should be. that's, that's wisdom.
So yeah, that's okay. But I, I don't think that, um, but, but what I want is I want your future to be better than that. Cause we love you. We want your future to be peace, because you are in control. Your money is boring, not stress inducing, because it's doing everything it's told to do, instead of you wondering where it went.
You no longer dread you misbehaving, because it's been so long since you have misbehaved. And so I'm have the benefit of it being 30 years since I went bankrupt. 32 years since I went, no, it's longer than that. now. It's gosh, but it's 36, but yeah, anyway, so I've got a lot of years of behaving after my, after my extreme misbehavior.
So I'm real calm about it nowadays. But back in those days, nobody was happy with what Dave was doing, including Dave or his wife or anybody else. Right. So I get it. I understand.
And now Sharon's always happy with Dave.
Well, hypothetically, but you know, let's not push it too far, but.
And now that you broke down.
Yeah. It's money, money wise. Yeah, there we go. So, but yeah, it's, it's a pretty simple thing, but the long it's, you're building trust with others and yourself with your, um, steady, positive behaviors. And that matters a lot.
It changes everything.
Well, people think my identity is I'm bad with money. No, you've been bad with money. You've made mistakes, but as long as you believe that you're never going to change.
You know, uh, James Clear is going to be speaking at the entre leadership summit this year, the famous atomic habits book. And, uh, I've known James a long time before. he was this massive author. That book has done so well. I'm so proud of him, but it is a great book.
And the whole concept there was. not, I'm going to grip my teeth and change my habits. Basically, the core thesis of part, at least part of it, on atomic habits is I'm going to change my identity. Craig Rochelle. And I talked about that on his leadership podcast.
One day. we're talking about James and the, this idea of, I'm going to start saying this is who I am, not. that's who. I'm horrible with money. I, I'm not good at math.
I, I have no impulse control. Uh, you know, I'm bad at Amazon. I don't know. Whatever it is you say about yourself, you know, you just start. the first thing is you have to say, not me, I'm not that way.
I'm an intentional spender. I'm someone who doesn't do life with payments.
I mean, there was a period, there was a period of time during the Fauci pandemic that, uh, I ate every donut in a 50 mile radius. And so, um, cause I was stress induced, donut eating. Right. And so, uh, yeah, but I had to decide. I'm a guy that doesn't eat too much.
I'm a guy that doesn't overeat and is not going to be grossly obese. I had to decide that because I became grossly obese. It was crazy. So, cause I ate every donut. And so I haven't had a donut.
I don't eat donuts.
That's who you are.
I get up, and I get up on Saturday mornings when I'm at home and I take a half dozen donuts to each grandkids house and I don't even eat one. That's how good I am.
I actually tried to tempt you the other day with a donut. And you said it was a get behind me.
Do something else. that's evil and bad, but it won't be a donut. So you just self identify, right? That's all I'm saying. And I'm saying I'm capable of doing stupid stuff too.
You are, everybody is, but you start going, I'm just, I'm just, I'm like, I'm there. And the one I love is where you go. It's like a besetting sin from your family. Our family has always been, it's like, what's going on? I mean, there's, you know, don't marry your cousin.
Stop it. You know, this is going to stop now. You don't have to replicate these stupid decisions. You can change the gene pool or the one people, people that grew up in my neighborhood. Well, somebody got out something in the water, you know?
And it's like people that are my race, people that are, that there are immigrants, people that aren't immigrants, people that are bald, people that have great hair. I mean, whatever it is, everybody's got like, that's your excuse. You don't understand. I've got a bunch of kids. Well, so what?
People, a bunch of kids get rich all the time because some of them have to, to feed them all. And so, you know what I mean? It's like, don't tell me, everybody's got like some reason. Don't self-identify with failure. That's the point.
And that's not some muckety-muck positive thinking deal, although it is, but it is. It's the reality of people who are wealthy. It's why you become who you hang around with too, by the way, because you're self-identifying with those people.
Our millionaire study, we found in a millionaire study, 97% of them believe they control their financial destiny.
And 69% of the public does. Belief. Ta-da! There it is. There's a correlation there and it has a causation.
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George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey. solutions on the debt free stage. Brian and Joanna are with us. Hey guys. How are you?
Great Dave. Great Dave.
Good to have you guys. Where do you live? Toronto, Ohio. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville.
And how much debt have you guys paid off? $215,000.. Wow. How long did that take? 61 months total, but we did 120 in the past 10 months.
Woo. Getting it. Okay. All right. Big time.
And your range of income during that, uh, 61 months started at 150,000 up to 240.
. Cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a family physician and Joanna's home with the kids. Awesome.
Very cool. So your practice took off. I went from the Navy to a private practice. Oh, that'll do it. Okay.
All right. Good. Good for you guys. What kind of debt was the 215?.
It was our mortgage. Pay it off your house.
Looking at weird people.
I love it. Way to go. You guys. Awesome. What's this house worth?
About 380,000.
. I love it. Oh, and it's out in the country. Yeah. You got some acreage with it.
I saw it just pop up on YouTube here.
We have a farm. Yep.
Yeah. How many acres?
About five.
Oh, very nice. It's a good place for kids.
Exactly. Excellent.
Excellent. Very cool. So is Toronto a rural area? I don't know that city. It is.
It's about 40 minutes West of Pittsburgh. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. I know the area.
Very cool. Good for you guys. Okay. So what made you decide? we're paying off the house and everything?
Well, our story starts about 17 years ago, when we were engaged, we took financial peace. I dragged Brian there, kicking and screaming.
A newly graduated MD.
Actually, we were in college. We were seniors. in college. We met at Franciscan University and we were not on the same page about money. And so I convinced him if I paid for it, would he go with me?
And so we went and after the first class he was sold. and that's when we really put this as our goal. Someday we want to have a paid off house. We want acreage and we want a large family, and it's kind of surreal that we're here now.
What happened, though, was during COVID. I almost lost my job because of the vaccine mandate. And so it really put a fire on us to make sure that we were completely debt free, including the mortgage. So that, no matter what happened, we'd be safe. Okay.
So they were mandating you get one, and you didn't? Correct. Okay. And so you're in private practice now where you control that? No, I mean, I work for a hospital system up there, but so they were mandating it through the government.
So I had to fight that back. Oh, I got it. Okay. All right. Wow.
That got you, that got you a fire, lit that fire in that last, what was it? 10 months. You went crazy, huh?
Yeah. We actually had built up a bunch of cash reserves in case Brian had to open up his own practice suddenly. And so when we came through that time, we said, okay, let's get really busy about this house. So we're not worried if something happens again. And so we decided to take that big chunk of change.
We had been saving aggressively in case he needed to leave his job quickly. And we put on the house and we drained everything except retirement and our emergency fund and threw it out the house in these last 10 months. And then we've just been scraping everything we can. Brian's been teaching butchering workshops. We raise all our own meat now to, on our farm and butcher it on our farm.
You know, I wish you had said that first.
We have six kids. A doctor giving butchering concerts, I'm just, it's bothering me.
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