Synced: We’re Back
2023-07-26 01:09:42
Hi, I’m Dax Shepard, and I love talking to people. I am endlessly fascinated by the messiness of being human, and I find people who are vulnerable and honest about their struggles and shortcomings to be incredibly sexy. I invite you to join me as I explore other people’s stories. We will celebrate, above all, the challenges and setbacks that ultimately lead to growth and betterment. What qualifies me for such an endeavor? More than a decade of sobriety, a degree in Anthropology and four years of improv training. I will attempt to discover human “truths” without any laboratory work, clinical trials or data collection. I will be, in the great tradition of 16th-century scientists, an Armchair Expert.
Oh, my god, back in the attic again.
It feels like we never left. I mean, you never left.
Except there have been some changes.
There's been some changes.
The kettle being first and foremost, and the couch, I mean, the chair. Yeah, the couch is accurate. We could both fit in it.
Comfortably fit.
Yeah. It's too big for even Dax. Wow. It's huge. It was a mistake.
How much time did he put into it?
Okay, this is what happened. This was the chair, you know? Now I sit in that chair. But it was causing him to sweat a lot, and he was embarrassed to take the pictures after with the gas. I remember, oh my god, like when he farted on you.
Because he was so sweaty, maybe. Oh, shit.
Sweaty and gassy.
That's the name of his memoir, Sweaty and Gassy. But he was so sweaty, and so he would get really anxious. And so he ordered this one. He thought the print was fun. It's not my style.
We've had some fights over it.
Okay. Have you grown and repaired?
Yeah, I mean, I just decided, whatever. Look at this place. It's a mess.
I actually, so I love the print. I think it's a very feminine print.
Not in a cool way. Like if you told a random person off the street, draw a woman's chair, they'd draw this. But that's patriarchy.
Okay, this chair was written by patriarchy. It feels like the stock image of a feminine chair.
Yes, exactly. Well, what, like men, think. It's a lazy boy.
And does that mean that I'm written by a man? Because I like it? I have the taste that men think I will?
I mean, I guess technically we're all written by a man because we're living in my dad's sim. That's true. He is a man. Yeah, wow.
That explains a lot. It makes me a lot less angry. Oh, good. If it's your dad, I'm fine being written by a man.
Okay, that's really nice. Yeah. He's not machismo.
I think that's actually masculine. I think the warped version we have in our society is not masculinity. He's secure, right? He's not like compensating or overcorrecting.
Yeah, and I always attributed that to like an awareness.
But I think you're right.
I think he's just confident and like kind of just does not care. I've never seen him be insecure, except sometimes when he's ordering food because he has an accent. And then I'm also super insecure during those moments. Like I get very anxious when he's ordering food and he doesn't know how to pronounce anything.
Did you feel like that as a kid? Oh. Was it worse?
So much. It's pretty much gone now. So it's funny when little things like when we're at a restaurant and I still feel a little tinge of it. I'm like, that's still there? What the fuck?
Yeah. Like so crazy.
I grew up in Montreal. My grandmother came from Hungary and she spoke English kind of, but no French. And I remember she needed a stamp or something. And so we were like in this tiny little mall together and she kept asking, I'm going to like say this. I was like, it's such a silly story, but it speaks to how emotional it can feel when you see like a parent or a caregiver or grandparent struggling with the language.
She was just trying to ask where the post office was and no one was responding to her because she wasn't saying it in French. And I remember she was like, what is it in French? And like, I couldn't remember, like I was too young and I just felt very like powerless and helpless. I mean, we would call it secondhand embarrassment as a joke now, but feeling the shame that they're feeling.
And you can't fix it for them. Of course, we're four minutes in and you've already said that you're going to cry.
You always make me cry. It's so on brand.
We talk about our dads. We already, we're picking up small talk right where we left off.
So we're here, we're back. We decided, I mean, really I'll pull back the curtain. Dax said, hey, I think you guys should do an ongoing show because Race to 35 got such a great response. We're so grateful to everyone who listened to that and we've had such sweet commentary around it. And multiple people have said they're egg freezing now with friends.
I just, I love it. It's so amazing. But anyway, he said, I think you guys should do an ongoing show. And so we listened to him and we're going to do a weekly show in which we do this talk. Liz will cry.
That'll be sort of the first half. And then we'll also be answering questions from listeners, kind of, I mean, I actually can't say the word advice. Like that makes me cringe. It's not advice. It's just that you guys will write in and tell us something that you're struggling with or dealing with and we will read it on here and we'll discuss it and we'll just give our two cents and try to help, you know, take some village.
It does. And villages are hard to come about. I kept thinking about how these third places we're always talking about, right? Like you have a first place, that's home, you have a second place, that's work. And then that third place, is it the gym, a community center?
For many people, it's a religious establishment or church or whatever. I was going to say that, what's that workout? that's. ...
Libraries.
The workout.
Some people find communities in libraries, okay?
And I'm like, what's the workout place? You're like, the library. It's the library, yes. The gym? The gym.
Well, CrossFit gyms, I feel like it feels almost like, right, you're part of something. But there's a dearth of those places. And I think so often we feel lost or stuck and we just go to like, it must be me. I must be doing something wrong. And I think so much of it is just a lack of community for so many people.
And that's what Race to 35 felt for me. And I think so many people who shared, they're not even doing egg freezing. There were men who came up to us, right? I know. Clearly not freezing their eggs either, but felt this sense of community.
And I think to me, it's not about advice, it's just about community. Tell us what you're going through. And sometimes just being able to feel heard in that moment and not alone, it doesn't really matter what the person says.
It definitely doesn't matter, because it's sort of the blind leading the blind a little bit. You know, we don't have any degrees in psychology. It's unqualified.
It's unqualified, unlicensed.
But it is our sense. We both are in therapy. What if I started reading these questions to my therapist, like pretending they were my issues, just so I could get really good advice?
Wait, that's a good idea. Okay.
I got to save therapy for me. Speaking of, we should do a little update on how we're feeling post, I mean, it's been eight months.
No way.
I mean, it was August.
Wait, that's wild.
Yeah. Since we finished our egg freezing. And I wonder for you how your thoughts have progressed, if you've even thought about it. since we've done it, what do you think about it?
When it comes up in conversation, I've become now the evangelist. If I overhear anybody being on the fence about it, and especially if they're at a company or somewhere that it's paid, I'm like, I don't leave them alone at the party. I'm like, because I just think- Oh, my God, that sounds rapey. I know. It's very non-consensual and I need to chill.
I do that because I just feel like I wish someone had done that for me. Not that I was at a company that would have paid for it, but I just wish I'd done it earlier. Same. So when I hear a woman say like, oh, I'm like whatever age, but like, maybe I'll just wait a few years. I'm like, if you know you're going to do it, do it now.
And I still tell people, I'm like, yes, it's painful. I was just talking to my friend Ruby about it, actually. She was like, does it hurt? And I was like, yes. 10 for Liz.
And 2 for Monica.
0.2 for me.
Like, I can't do my own shots. And I told her, like, I will help you, I'll do it with you, all this stuff. I've never had a baby, but it's similar to the way that I feel. a lot of women will describe childbirth, which is, it's super painful, but it's so worth it. It almost, for me, still feels like it was a spiritual experience to do it with you.
And I still have my little Liz walking around with me. And that is very powerful. Sometimes I'll still think, like, you know, months go by and I'm still single. Sometimes I'll go back and forth on. like, should I do another round?
And I know that you're doing another one, and I'm like, do I just do it again with her? But what about you? How have you evolved?
Yeah. So it's been a ride. So one of my very, very, very good friends is currently freezing. She is retrieving tomorrow.
Oh, wow.
Which is so exciting. So, wow. You know, when she was leading up to it, I was so excited for her. And on her first day of shots, I went over there and two of our other friends came, and, you know, we eventized it, as we do. You know, I walk in, I'm like, I'm the expert.
I know what I'm doing. I just did this. I can be of service here. And I'm, like, you know, laying out all the things and all this. I just knock it all over on accident, but like all this glass, you know, it didn't shatter, but I immediately,
basically like threw all this stuff all over the floor. And everyone was like, oh, it's okay, but I could tell immediately all the confidence.
they had in me was gone.
And in myself, I was like, oh, wow. It's like when you're on stage and you have a performance and you like blank and you don't. Because she'd ask a question and I'd be like, fuck, I don't remember. And I can't remember so much.
I bet I wouldn't. It's crazy.
I couldn't find our videos, our nail lady videos. So I was kind of panicking. And, of course, what's so fascinating, as we learned during the process, hers is different. She had to take a pill before.
I took a pill, but it was to be adjusted to your cycle.
No, no, like literally before the shot. And then also, she wasn't using Q-caps. She was using that big ass needle. Remember that?
The trigger shot needle?
Remember the big needle that we took off immediately and put on another? She was using that big one to retrieve the medicine and put it in the saline. Like that's, I guess, technically what that's for, but the Q-cap makes it much easier, whatever. So it was just really fascinating because I was like, oh yeah, it's not regular. It just put me back in that headspace.
And my reaction to all of this was surprising to me. and ding, ding, ding, therapy. I talked about it yesterday in therapy because I said to my friends, I got her a tray. I picked out a really good one for her. It's very her.
With the cheeses? No, that wouldn't be good for her. There's one with cheeses, but she's like a bright blue girl. So I got her a bright blue. Anyway, she's been keeping us updated, as she should, as we asked for, right?
And for some reason, when I've been getting these updates, I have this like little pang that happens every time. It was very surprising to me. I was not expecting to feel anything other than just pure empowerment, sisterhood feelings. I want her to get 4 million eggs. Like I, I'm sending so many positive vibes her way.
Everything's going great for her and I'm so thrilled. But it's just like when I see something about like the size, it's not even like, mine, aren't like that. It's not that. That's why I was having such a hard time processing what was going on. And I had to talk to my therapist and I was like, I really don't understand.
It's not that I'm feeling jealous and it's not that I'm feeling annoyed, that I'm being like asked things. It's this other feeling that I, I don't even know what to name it. And we essentially got to, I think I had convinced myself that I had processed all of those feelings, because we did it here. We did it together. We did this podcast on it.
Mr. Perel fixes everything. You know, we talked it out. It's like, great, that's done now. And it's obviously not.
Obviously it's not. But I still have all these lingering feelings around it that I've really compartmentalized. I have slammed the door shut on it. And I think, okay, I guess I'll just be honest. Me and you went to South by separately and you did a panel on fertility and you told me you were doing that.
And I had that exact same feeling. I didn't know where to place it, but I think what it is, is every time someone is forcing me to open that door that I've slammed shut, or like it cracks the door open where I'm like, I'm not ready to enter that. So I think that's what it is. It's just like, I really placed it far away. And of course it's all about control, right?
I thought I had control over that, this uncontrollable thing. I made it as controllable as possible. And then I just get reminders like, oh yeah, you don't have control. So it's good, because my therapist and I are going to like, we're like revisiting those feelings and what's happening and why I'm like triggered. I think I'm still really scared.
I can't have kids.
And how does that make you feel?
Just scared. My periods have been so weird. We've talked about this a little bit. And every time I have a weird period, I'm like, I'm infertile. Like I think that every time.
So I'm off the birth control. I've been off of it since then. I'm just like, it's taking my body a long time to adjust. But also what if it's never going to, I don't know. So it's been kind of a lot.
Yeah. I don't know if I'm going to have kids. Is there a bigger question, right? That if you don't have the answer to it or you have little pieces of quote, not even evidence, but little artifacts that could go to prove that story, right? Of course that's triggering.
Like we're not talking about, you know, you had a scar removed and like, I mean, even that for people like that can be, sorry, that was like so specific. Like someone's like, well, I had a scar, but this is so big. I'm not a scar minimizer.
Also, how can you have a scar removed?
I don't even know. I don't even know why I said that. I don't even know what that is. Did you mean mole? Maybe a mole.
Okay. Mole removed. A non-cancerous mole. And even that, that's not, okay. Cut it out.
I'm not. I'm keeping it. It's not like, should I get a donut or a muffin? or like, I don't know if I'll be able to eat banana muffins anymore. This is such a, you know, fundamental question in your life.
Yeah. And again, I said it on the podcast. Like. I was astonished at how quickly you did quote unquote, bounce back.
Well, turns out, I didn't really.
No, but you did. You intellectualized it a lot because you were doing a podcast about it. And so you had to explain it and understand it. And sometimes that makes us feel like, okay, now that I understand it, I'm over it. Yes.
But that's how ambiguous grief works, too. Right. And you know, I wanted to ask you, like, do you feel like you should be over it? Because it feels totally normal to me that you would be triggered. And it seems like what's bothering you is why?
And to me, there is no why, like, of course you are. And maybe that would make those feelings linger less if you weren't judging the feeling, right? Saying like, I shouldn't be feeling this. It's something I try to do, and I fail at it all the time. Like just being curious about feelings as opposed to trying to figure it out so I can make it go away.
Totally. Totally. No, that's right. I think now is the time where I am going down that road, where it's like, oh, it's okay for me to be feeling this. And maybe it's even more normal than not to be feeling it.
It is still important for me to unravel why they're happening so that I can take some steps, right? I mean, what we talked about was, she's like, okay, so you have fear around it. So does that clarify whether you really think you want them or you don't? That's still a question in the mix too. And so then it's like really getting honest with myself about that, because I think also part of me feeling like, I'm not sure if I do, is a little also self-protective, right?
You know, it's just like taking off each layer of, like all versions, of just trying to protect yourself ultimately. But you do need to know the truths underneath so you can take steps to get what you want.
It's so hard to say what you want, even in your own head or like, there's just a chance that you're not going to get it, or that it's going to be taken away from you, or all those things. I get that. I think I did that for a long time too, with kids. I think the egg freezing made it so undeniable for me. But what was also, and again, this might be helpful, like, okay, what is the worst case scenario?
And not in a-.
Doomsday.
Yeah. Dramatizing it. And we kind of did this with Esther when she came in, right? It's very different, but I was like, oh, what if I never meet someone or whatever, right? And she's like, okay, what if you don't meet someone in the timeframe that you need to have a kid in that way?
And that stuck with me when she was like, you re-imagined how your fertility, why are you not re-imagining family, right? Why aren't you giving yourself the same kind of freedom to get outside of that box? And that actually you might be more happy outside of that box, not just like, well, I'm going to have to do it this way, but that that might actually be a better way. Or maybe there's a way you haven't even thought about. And I don't know if that's helpful to you.
I also feel like an expert could just tell you, like, no.
I know.
Sort of bring down some of these, because, I don't know, are you Googling stuff? Like, I feel like I would just be hours and hours of rabbit hole and just be like, yeah, I have, you know, ovary cancer. There's no doubt.
Well, yeah, I've already self-diagnosed myself with PCOS, like all of these things. I go to a new guy now. She wants me to track my period for the next few months and then go back to her. And I was supposed to get some blood work done, but then I didn't because it was a Saturday and nothing was open. It's like, oh my God, everything around all this feels chaotic.
It's like when we were in it, it was chaotic. And now the idea of doing it again feels chaotic. It's like, oh, fuck. This again. This again.
Yeah. But also, I do think a second time doing it is going to feel much different. I'm curious how that will feel, because it might feel a little more routine. I'm not sure. Okay, I do want to tell people that you are currently icing your foot.
I am, no socks on, barefoot on the couch. Has anyone ever done that? It's so gross. I'm so sorry.
Oh, I think I have.
Okay, great.
But you lost your footing.
Okay, I don't like that term. I'm old, but I'm not that old. I don't even want to say sprain. I twisted, I twistered my ankle. Okay, it just got a little twisty.
I was going down a hill. I may have been texting.
Oh, God.
Probably you. And I fell, and then I caught myself. So I didn't break my front teeth, but I definitely twisted my ankle. But the good news is no one saw me. That's the first thing you do when you fall.
You just look around. Oh my God, I know. And then you get back up and you keep walking. So embarrassing. That's what happened to me when I got hit by a car.
Like on a bike. Yeah. If anyone has been in an accident, obviously, if it's not to the point where you're unconscious or heavily injured, you just get back up. Yeah, you pop up. You're like, I'm fine.
Yeah. It's like a weird survival thing. So I was in survival mode. Yeah.
Do we think that is evolutionary? Because if you're injured and people see, you're weak. You're immediately a target.
Vulnerable. Yeah.
Yeah.
It's like kind of masculine. In a really weird traditional way. Yeah.
It's like, no, I'm still strong.
I'm fine. And I was like glimping and I limped my way here. And then we were laughing about how on brand it was. And then Monica tripped. Oh my God.
When she said it. I know. And almost twisted her ankle.
I was like, we're so synced up as we have been, which has also been a funny thing to track. since is, our whole fertility journey was completely synced, which was crazy. And then, even after so much, it was like, did you start your period today? No. An hour later.
I started my period.
It's crazy. Even once I think I like packed pads, cause I knew you had had yours and then it, like, came in really handy. I have like a period tracker app and it's just you.
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But that's why I love element, because I could just get all the good for my body without any of the bad.
Yeah. And I was just at a pool with some friends and we had just come off of a pretty boozy day. I'll say it. And I force fed everyone element because everyone was struggling, let's be honest. And we bounced back.
We were so ready to go immediately after, because when you sweat, the primary electrolyte lost is sodium. Athletes actually lose up to seven grams per day. And when it's not replaced, it's common to experience muscle cramps, fatigue, sleepiness. You get like a full electrolyte deficiency. So element's an awesome way to replenish that.
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Okay. My favorite podcast, Nobody's Listening, right? They were talking about periods the other day and she said she thinks that's a fallacy, that periods sink up. No. Can you research it, Rob?
Let's make it, let's make the man research period sinking. Wait. Based on what?
Anecdotally, I feel like it's true.
It happens all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But maybe there's just not enough science around it. We should do some experiments.
I feel like there is science around it and it's all about the pheromones and the smelling the hormones thing. Isn't it the nose?
That makes the period change?
Yeah, you're smelling each other and your pheromones, or hormones, are sinking. Oh, my God, Rob knows. Okay.
I can tell. What happened? What is it? Theclevelandclinic.org, there was a doctor that said that it's not true. Okay, but that's one man.
It's a man?
No, Stacey.
Okay. Well, Stacey, can we really trust?
Stacey says no. It could be a male's name. I've heard it as a man. Well, Stacey, he or she says there isn't scientific evidence to back it up. Okay.
So I think- So that's different.
Right. It's like astrology and like moon shit. And it's all true. Oh, I love moon shit. It's awful.
It's all true. Oh my God. Speaking of. Okay. I'm going to, maybe on this every week, I'll read our poster.
Yours? Yours? I was like, that is the most on-brand.
Yeah. So yesterday's, or maybe I'll look at today's. Oh, I'm not allowed to say today and yesterday and stuff on these podcasts anymore.
I got in trouble.
I'm just kidding. She also says the moon stuff's not true either. Okay. Stacey's a skeptic. I don't trust her at all.
I don't.
What's she trying to prove?
She was written by a man. She was written by a man. Stacey was written by a man.
That's right. Okay. Our co-stars for today. So let's remind everyone, you're a Pisces, water sign, synchronized swimmer. I am a Virgo, earth.
I walk a lot. Okay. Now for our co-star, the PSAs. Okay. PSA, Virgo.
You can't fix anyone. I laughed out loud. It's so dead on.
Did it make you mad to read it? Were you like, ugh? Yeah.
I was like, I want to fix you, co-star. I'm gonna. No. I was just like, oh, fuck. It's so true.
I want to fix people. People are bad out there.
Yeah. People are bad and you're good. No, I'm not. I feel like if I was as good as you-.
No, I'm not.
I'm actually not kidding. I feel like I would have your overconfidence that you can fix things, because I feel like you can do a lot. Like if you set your mind to something, I feel like it happens. So I understand how that translates to people.
That's really nice. Okay. I'm gonna keep trying to fix everyone. For you, PSA, nobody remembers that interaction. you're ruminating over.
Oh my gosh. Also, so dead on.
I mean, I told you about my celery. I went on a date.
Your celery. Oh.
I went on a date this week and I was eating a piece of celery. I was like nervous.
Can I ask you a question about the celery? How was it cut?
There were sticks and it was kind of like these-.
Was it like buffalo wild wings?
Like vegan buffalo wings. Okay. Like cauliflower. And then they put pieces of celery.
I remember dipping celery into ranch.
We're pro celery here.
I'm pro celery. Yeah. Big fan. But in that moment, for some reason, celery was like a foreign object. Like I'd never eaten celery in my life.
I was doing it for the very first time and then I put a bit in my mouth and it kept falling out. And I was talking. It wasn't like, oh, they're talking. And so I'm captivating the entire attention. I'm like, look at me.
Look at my mouth. I'm speaking. And then celery is coming in and out. And then, a few seconds later, I tried to prove I can eat it. I was like, okay, that was weird.
But if I eat it well, then it'll make up for that first horrible incident. Yes.
And then it worse. It jumped out of my mouth. It was like the celery was just rejecting me. In that moment, I was like, it's over. And it was like 20 minutes into the date.
Like this is a deal breaker.
I was like, this is never, like the deal is done. And it wasn't, surprisingly.
Surprisingly. You know, I wonder if it was actually a good move, because you're like drawing a lot of attention to your mouth.
No, it wasn't.
Rob, would that be hot if celery is like popping out of your mouth?
Also, like with celery, it was such a weird, not that it would have been better if it was like sauce coming out of my mouth. Like chili.
Chili. Oh, no.
That would be way worse. Yeah, that would be worse. Okay, maybe this was the best case scenario. Yeah. Maybe celery is the best food to be choking on.
Flying out of your mouth.
I'm going to blame the restaurant.
Yes.
Okay. For sure. Because I think if it's good snappy celery, it should snap into your mouth easy. But sometimes when it's a little older, it has those strings. That's, yeah.
Did it have those? It had strings.
And I think I was trying to be cool and like break it and then put it in my mouth. That was the mistake. Don't try and be cool. Okay. Yeah.
Like a cigarette. And what?
It was like a cigarette for you? Like a cigarette. Yeah. Yeah. I was just...
Oh, my God.
So embarrassing.
Oh, my God.
Yeah. Okay. So we're not going to overanalyze interactions and we're not going to try and fix people.
I can only have promise. I'm kidding. I'm really trying.
If you try and think of moments where it didn't work, it'll probably help you.
That's really real for me. Like I've been the sheriff before and it has not served me well. So I have been active in trying to not do that. It's hard, but I think I've gotten better. I do think I've gotten better.
I feel like you've progressed a lot in the last... I mean, I can't believe it's been eight months since we did a show. But yeah, you're doing great, dude. Also, it's not a, you know, coming back to the egg stuff. It's just not a, okay, this is done now.
It sucks, but accepting that.
Work in progress.
Yeah. Yeah.
Literally nothing is done. That can feel really demoralizing. I feel like it can make some people just give up. Like, what's the point of all this if every day I have to work the same amount to get to zero, you know? But also, I don't know.
I have the upside. actually. Okay. The upside is with control and stuff like that, would you really want to live your life knowing how everything is going to happen? Because control is all about, for me particularly, I want to know what's going to happen.
If I were to sit down and watch a movie and know how it ends, would the movie be as fun?
Oh my God. Yes. That's why I've watched Good Will Hunting four billion times and Contagion 40,000 times. It's even better when you know the ending. Well...
Wow. Of a good movie.
Okay. Wait, let me phrase it differently. Okay. If you knew how everything in your life was going to go, would you choose that life over the one that you have now?
No.
Right? Well...
No, no. I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
It's scary. Of course. I'm not saying it's not. In certain moments, because I struggle with this a lot, where I just want to know, I want to know, I want to know. You want to know, because your brain is coming up with the worst case scenario.
Yes. You want to know that it's not going to be bad. Exactly. And so, I tell myself, I don't even know how good it's going to get, as opposed to...
Yeah. I know how bad it's going to get. That's a beautiful way of looking at it.
I mean, it's work in progress. You have to remind myself all the time.
Okay. We are going to read a couple.
Wait, but we got so many.
I know. Also, thank you so much for people who wrote in. We might reach back out to some people to get a little more details on their questions. We want some deets. We want some juicy deets on what's going on.
And we haven't seen those, right? No. Okay. No.
So, that's what's kind of fun is. I'm dry reading these. Okay. Okay. That's the acting term.
Okay.
Dry read.
It means I have not read it yet. Okay. We're going to start with this one. It's fertility-related. Okay.
Great. Family is upset. I won't donate my frozen embryos to a cousin. How would you handle this conversation? Okay.
This is from Chelsea. I'm going to read it. Dry read. My husband and I did IVF last year and we have five frozen embryos in storage. Congratulations.
That's great.
That's huge.
Our plan is to only have one baby. Currently 40 weeks. Pregnant with that baby. Oh my God. Yay.
Our plan is only have one, because we have two older kids and the finances for our larger family aren't in the cards for us. We were on the fence about what we'd like to do with the remaining embryos, donate or discard. But after extensive therapy discussions, we realized neither of us is comfortable donating and we'll discard them when we feel ready. Well, a cousin of mine recently had a full emergency hysterectomy and is devastated. She won't have biological children of her own now.
She's struggled with endo for years and of course my heart breaks for her. I told my mom how much I hope she's able to have a family one day, in whatever form that looks like. And then, shortly thereafter, my mom decided to tell my cousin I would donate my embryos to her. Oh my God. Mom.
I was bewildered why my mom thought that was an appropriate thing to do, because I made it clear my husband and I don't want to donate, and she told us family is different than donating to a stranger. For my husband and I, it isn't, though. We don't want to donate because we came to realize we'd never be able to let go of the idea that the kids were ours. I would always think of that child as being mine, and that's not fair to the parents or kid if I'm unable to step back. So now we're stuck in this huge family fight because so many people think we're being selfish and that discarding the embryos is morally unacceptable.
Wow. Well, thank you, Chelsea. so much for writing in. That's a doozy. And also, I'm sorry that you're in this position, and I'm also proud of you for not being swayed, because you know yourself, right?
Like you know, this is how I'm going to feel in that environment. I'm not going to be able to separate myself from it, and you know, you have conviction around that. And I feel like a lot of people would be like, okay, I feel bad, I guess I don't want people to be mad at me. And it's like really good to have boundaries. I mean, these are your embryos.
Yeah, not just eggs. I thought at first, when you described it, that it was just about giving her the eggs, but a full embryo, that's her and her husband. Yeah. I mean, that's just like a giant decision. And I think that anytime that we're making a decision out of guilt, it's never the right decision for either party.
That's the thing. There's a fight now that you have to get through, but imagine the tension that would exist for the rest of your life and the fights and the negative feelings you'll have forever if you decided to give in to this.
And that the child will feel.
Exactly. And you're bringing a child into this mix.
Yeah. The conflict is the child in many respects. Again, who knows what will happen? Maybe everything goes well, but that child feeling the weight of all of that, no matter what, is also, ew.
This is an interesting sidebar sort of, but I do think that when we talk about fertility often, and not to take it here, but here we are, abortion, right? It is really common to only think about the adults involved. That woman has to have the baby and no one's really taking much time to think about the life of the child after. It's so interesting, because ultimately that's what all of this is about, the life of a child. So you have to take that into consideration when you're making any of these choices at all in life.
I'm thinking about that for myself. It's like when I'm like, will I be able to have a kid and will I have a partner? I'm really thinking about it via my brain and not like, what will the life of my child be like if I X, Y, and Z?
And that the life of their child, I mean, however, you define that, but their embryo is their child. Them having no control over how that happens and the harm that could happen as a result of it. Can we talk about the fact that the mom said that they would do this on her behalf? I think Chelsea and her mom might want to have a conversation. To me, before we even get into the embryo.
and all of that, it's just like, why would?
you- Why do you feel you have the right to speak on my behalf?
Yeah, period. Period. But on something so big and important and that has nothing to do with you. It's her body, it's her embryo. To me, that's the sort of starting point.
It's hard with families. Families are so funny. I think family is the most beautiful and heartbreaking thing. The people in your family, in my case anyway, are just the people who bring me the most joy and the most intimacy and connection, and that I can feel the most pain if I'm not connected. Yeah, there's like dysfunction in all families and even though, yeah, this is a big conversation to have with your mom, which again, I feel like is the first person I would go to and have a conversation with, but these are hopefully moments of growth and repair and connection, even though they're hard conversations.
So how do we think she should approach with the cousin? This is tricky because she's saying, we don't want to donate because we came to realize we'd never be able to let go of the idea that the kid was ours. And that's very honest. That's just so honest and I don't see how anyone could fight that. And if you are the cousin, you would not want to have a kid.
who people are around who think that's their? ... This all gets so complicated. I think there's something to be said in saying plainly, I wish we could make a different decision here, but I know that we will not be able to separate enough from this child that it will always feel like ours and I don't think that's fair to you or the child. I think it will end up causing a lot of conflict and tension.
I'm so sorry. I also think a piece of this, which really sucks for Chelsea, is she's just also going to have to be comfortable knowing they might be upset, but that she made the right decision. And that's the worst part of all of it, is when you know you're doing the right thing and people are still upset.
Yeah. And not all feelings are permanent. Who knows how she'll feel in one year, two years, five years. I feel like there are so many times that I've had blowups in my family where now, looking back, there's a recognition of like, I'm so glad you didn't do what I told you to do. Right?
Yes. Exactly.
And I also feel like when I'm in guilt, I tend to over explain. Over explaining. can be this weird, I don't know if I'll call it like a fawning response or like a coping mechanism, and I'll just talk and talk and talk. And I almost feel like in this case, if I were Chelsea, I wouldn't say that much.
Exactly. Keep it very simple.
You have nothing to explain.
I know.
You have nothing to justify. This is yours and it's weird. What they're asking you to do, and it's a lot and you don't feel comfortable. And that's actually the only thing you need to say. And that's when, in nonviolent communication, with all these I messages, I see that you're really struggling with this, but I don't feel comfortable doing this.
Let me know how I can support you in seeking out adoption or other people who could donate an egg. So let me know how I can support you. It's not just saying like, fuck you. Yeah. And like you're alone.
It's this way to fix your problem is not possible. But I'm here to support you.
Yeah. I'm here to support other options with you.
Yes. And help you figure that out. I think that then you're reframing the problem. Like. it's her problem.
Right now. it's like your problem and it's not.
And this is a really, I think I probably said this on Resa35.. I say it all the time and people are probably sick of it, but I have found it to be the most profound thing I've ever heard in therapy. And it's around boundaries. And this conversation is about boundaries.
Totally.
You hear it all the time. Like you have to have boundaries. You have to have boundaries. And I thought I knew what that meant, but then my therapist said it so clearly. She said, boundaries aren't, you can't do this.
It's I won't do that.
Yeah.
So you're not telling anyone else what to do, what they can and can't do. It's you. Yeah. I won't. I will not sit here and be yelled at.
I will walk out. You can't yell at me like that. So that for me, is such a good framing of it. This is sort of an extension of that. It's.
I have a boundary here. I will not be donating an embryo because it's not an option for me and my family.
Yeah.
And that's it. That's it.
Whether it's an abortion, whether it's having a baby, no one should be ever making that decision for anybody. Again, it's not to the benefit of the person and not to the benefit of any child that comes into the world through someone else's decision. The more strongly you can sit in your decision and being steadfast and clear that it's the right decision for you, that's all you need to do. And yeah, they might be disappointed. Well, she'll be disappointed.
She will be. She will be. Expect it. Exactly. Have some expectations around that.
You can't get what you want. You can't get any embryo you want. I know. This is life.
Hooey, hooey.
We are supported by AG1.. AG1 is a go-to. We've been drinking it for- Ever. Ever since we started Race to 35.. I feel like we felt really bad after the freezing and we needed to replan.
Yes. And I feel like AG1 really was our tool.
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It does. And sometimes I've been throwing it in smoothies, which is a nice little-.
Wait, I got to try that. Yum. Yeah, it's so good.
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Okay, let's do another one. This one's-.
Oh, my God, your eyes.
Juicy. This is from Anonymous. How do you handle becoming close friends with your co-workers, including people who report up to you? I am lucky to have worked hard and climbed the ladder in my profession, and I am now a vice president with a big budget and a lot of people to manage and work with. Unfortunately, I am also a natural connector, and inevitably over the years I have formed some strong friendships with my co-workers and employees.
I mean, we spend a ton of time together and I only hire people I click with. It's impossible. However, it can make things hard when there are serious conversations to be had, and sometimes I feel like it would be easier to have a completely separate work and social life. How do you handle being friends with someone who also depends on you for their income? What do you do when, inevitably, someone else on the team feels left out because they don't have a close friendship with you?
Do I need to just jump ship and avoid this in my next job? And she says, not really an option.
That's a great question.
I literally have been thinking about this for the last few weeks, because I only work with my friends, because I work all the time and I love working. Like to me, it's how I play with people. And it comes with great parts and it comes with not so great parts.
Really hard parts.
Working with someone already comes with all kinds of different dynamics and tensions and complications, and then being friends with someone also, and then you put basically those two together. And so you're amplifying the fun, but also potentially amplifying the amount of conflict and how hard it is to navigate that conflict.
That's the piece, right? It's how to extract yourself, like in a regular workplace environment where you're not working with your friends and there's conflict, which there will be, you can extract yourself. You can go home. You have different places to go and different landlines. When your go-to person is also the person you work with, also the person you have dinner with, it gets very, very, very complicated and it can get very codependent.
I feel like that's the label. And again, codependency can show up in all kinds of different ways.
Can you describe it for people who might not understand codependency? I think you'll be better at describing it than me. Okay. I feel like you're really good at it too. Okay.
You just did it. I feel like... Oh, fuck!
I think some people think codependency is relying on each other.
That's interdependency, which is great. Word program for that. To do that. Yes.
Codependency, you know, this often comes in addiction. A codependent almost is addicted to the person with the addiction. It's their own addiction.
Yeah.
But am I doing a good job explaining it? I only know it because I am one and I feel it.
Well, I love talking about how the term even came about because I think it helps people identify it. AA, as we know, huge 12-step program that's helpful to a lot of people. Ever heard of it? Ever heard of it? AA and 12-step programs is the most successful and free therapy program in the world.
There's like a 12-step program for almost anything. Exactly. I'm in one. We know a lot of people who are in several of them. It's an incredible program.
So in the 80s, I think it was 80s, there were all these AA meetings and this woman, Pia Melody, kept seeing wives, partners, husbands, sisters, kids of alcoholics coming to the meetings. Yes. And at one point, there were so many family members or friends or people in the life of an alcoholic that they were like, we got to create like a separate meeting. They're not here because they are alcoholics. It's a 12-step program.
It's anonymous. It's only people who have that addiction to alcohol. And so it's actually kind of distracting if there's all these other people. And so they created this separate program and this woman basically went, if they need a 12-step program too, because the alcoholics are here because what makes them a little bananas is the drinking. Whereas the other group, they're bananas and they're not drinking.
Exactly. Right? So the substance is the alcoholic.
The person.
So, instead of being addicted to a substance, you're addicted to people. And whether that's a singular person in your life or in my case, it was just like a pattern in many of my relationships. And often it can start in the family. It's basically that your locus of control is outside of yourself. So you're okay if the other person is okay.
That creates all kinds of different patterns of control, of trying to fix, of trying to change, and like truly believing that you can change people. I mean, that was like-.
Ding, ding, ding.
Ding, ding. When I was a child, particularly, like I thought I could, and sometimes I did.
I know that for me has been the hardest part. Is when there's evidence, when it works. Sometimes it works. And so then you think, no, no, but I'm different. I have this ability to help or to change.
I'm the person that can see. You get addicted to that. And that's a really smart way of putting it. You're only okay if the other person's okay and you're just as low if the other person is low. There's no separation from you and your addiction, the person.
That can get very common in these types of workplace friendship, relationships, because there is no separation, right? It all becomes a milkshake. I personally have found that you must, and it's hard, and I don't know, maybe our anonymous sinker. Our anonymous sinker. We got to come up with a name.
Is going to have to make sure that she has relationships that are not at work. She needs to make sure she fills out the rest of her life with other types of relationships and she's going to have to make sure the people that report to her also have that. She can't be the end all be all for anyone, because that's where it gets tricky. And they might mean her having some distance and creating some distance from some of these people and still be friendly. It's really fucking hard.
It's so hard. You can still be friendly and you can still do things, but emotionally, she's in charge. She has a position of power and it is incumbent on the person in the position of power. It's unfortunate, but it's on you to create that distance. Exactly.
Exactly.
Yeah. That's a really good point. I managed some teams when I worked at Vox and I found it so hard because if you are in charge, I think, especially if you're a woman, no one is like, you know who I love and can't get enough of? My boss. Meaning.
I think I spent so much time trying to do my job well and trying to be liked, and very often those two things are not going to happen.
They can't.
And are actually exactly in contradiction with each other. Yeah. Because if you're super liked, then they might not respect you and you might not be able to execute that leadership position that you need to do, and vice versa. It is tricky. I mean, that's why people get paid more when they're in charge of people.
Management, particularly, is kind of like being a therapist. Yes, you're dealing with logistics and tasks, but what you're really dealing with is people. And my heart goes out to anyone who's a manager right now, because it's very hard to keep that distance when people are struggling and people want to be their full selves at work and not be this robotic version. I don't know. I feel like it's harder to be a manager now in many ways.
Yes.
So Emma, who works for us, who I love deeply, Emma worked with me at SoulCycle. That's how I know her. We worked together equally at the front desk. And when it was time for us to bring in someone to help us, I thought of her because she was so good. So now Emma works for us.
She works for me. I do think we've done a very good job of understanding that the work and the friendship is separate, right? Right. So if I'm texting her and I'm just like, Emma, please send this email to X, Y, and Z, have it say this. I mean, that's probably not how I would talk to her as a friend, but we can compartmentalize those two things.
That's great. And it's just everyone going in with that knowledge, right? Like when we're at work, we're doing work. And then maybe we do all go out for dinner after and that can be a little bit more lax and we shouldn't talk about work there. Like really separate those things, especially if there's a power dynamic.
Like it's one thing. if everyone, like when we worked at SoulCycle, we would go out after and we'd talk about work all day long because we're on the same level. Yes. But when people are at different levels, that gets very complex. And so if you're out socially, try to not make it about work at all.
And we do that. When she's out here, she'll come, we'll do like work meetings, and then her and I will go get wine and we'll have a friendship hang. And it has nothing to do with work. And I think you have to have those compartments.
Yeah. That's a really good way to put it. So work is boring. Like, right? You want to have fun at work.
So you do want to joke around. But creating those receptacles or containers for fun, so, like mid thirties. Receptacles are fun. Create a container around your fun.
Get a tray for fun.
Get a tray.
But I mean, look, honestly, we have this.
If I'm sending you a contract, it's a different type of conversation and interaction. that is when we are at the diner yesterday, everyone has to adjust to the different types of interactions if it's going to go smoothly, because there has to be some professionalism at a workplace. There just does.
And there used to be. I feel like we're so much more lax around stuff. When I work with an assistant and she's my bud too, so we'll go and have coffee and we're just talking about dogs and dates and all that fun stuff. And if I'm texting her, it's like friend. If I'm emailing her, it's like work.
I'm not like, fuck, you, do all my, you know, but it's work-less on email. And again, that's why I actually don't like to text her, even about work things. Right. Because I'm like, oh, that's.
You want to keep that separate.
Yeah. That's where we. That's our friend. And like, that's texting you. Whereas, like when it's an email, it's more formal, more straightforward.
If there's, you know, something I want to talk about, or rectify or confirm, we talk about this a little bit of like, okay, let's put on our work hats and okay, now we have our friend hats. The work hats are off and we're just hanging out. Yeah. I think you can be overt in certain cases.
Exactly. I think it's incumbent on you, as the person in charge to dictate this, to have a little bit of emotional distance. I know like that really does suck, but it's required, I think, or things are going to get muddier and muddier and muddier. It's good to start with a little space. A little space just means you're not going to give your life story, you know, you're not going to talk about your poop, yesterday's poop, you know, like, just have some boundaries around it.
And then, yeah. And then plan like work hangs and say when you get there, like we're not talking about work here.
Right. And even the work hangs, like, I mean, Me Too changed a lot of stuff. I was in media for several years and there's definitely like a pre-Me Too and a post-Me Too kind of holiday party. And the holiday parties. pre-Me Too were a limited bar, right?
And just 2 a.m., 3 a.m.
Stripping. Stripping.
Making out. Spin the bottle with the CO. No, none of that. But then, post-Me Too, I thought was a little bit more boring. It was like a two ticket, you know, to drink maximum.
And it started earlier and finished earlier. As much as I was like, oh, this is boring. It actually created more boundaries around it. I liked that the bosses left at one point early enough that they showed up. We had a good moment together, but then they're not like out there all night with us.
I think those little things will make a big difference. I think it's in the small things.
It is. It's remembering, like, you can't really have it all. I hate to say that, but if you're the boss, you're the boss. That comes with some negative stuff. It comes with more money, but you might not get to be best friends with everyone.
Wow. That was a fun one. All right. We'll do one more because we can't get enough. Okay.
This is from Lillian. What's the appropriate way to split costs on a group vacation? I just did this. When there are singles, couples, kids, and varying incomes in the mix. A friend is having a birthday weekend beach trip.
The folks going would be me, single, her and her partner, then one other couple with a kid. She proposed we rent a 3B1B house.
Wait.
Oh my God. Thank you. Yes. She proposed we rent a 3B1B house and presented the cost breakdown showing housing split evenly three ways.
This is like a... What's that thing that you guys do?
Fast math?
The test to get into law school. LSAT. Like, there's three... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like a word problem. Okay. I'm a teacher and this is out of my price range. If it wasn't her birthday trip, I'd invite a friend to split the cost of the room with. I'm talking it through with my other friends and it turns out none of us know what the norm is here.
What's the default for a trip like this? Splitting per bedroom or per person? What about when kids enter the mix or if it's a much longer trip? Thanks. This is a great question.
Wow. This is an age old question. It was literally an episode of Friends.
It's such a good episode. It is. It is where people are eating stupid soups, but then they all split it. The person who wants to split it is always the person who got four appetizers.
I know. Oh, man. This gets heavy, right? Yeah. Because also, I'm taking it a little different direction.
Lillian is not insinuating this, but there can also be a version of this where if someone's making a lot more money that they pay for everything, I actually think that's equally bad.
Oh, okay.
It's counterintuitive, right? Sure. Because it's like, yeah, I should treat everyone. I have the ability. I actually think that leads to some interesting friendship dynamics.
Sure. So I think it is good that everyone in some way put money towards a trip. I agree. That's a little bit different than what Lillian's saying, but I'm just putting that out there.
I even remember dating someone, and not that you always have to do this in a couple too, but I was dating someone and things were weird, and then he got an Airbnb and I remember him being like, no, no, no, don't pay for it. I got it. I got it. I just Venmoed it and it changed the whole dynamic of the trip for the better. Yes.
Because suddenly I wasn't like in his space, and thank you so much, and it just made us equal.
You don't have to be deferential to him. And if he wants to go to this restaurant and you want to go to this restaurant, if he has paid for everything, you can't help but be like, well, he's paid, so I guess we'll just do what he wants to do. And that just leads to weird hierarchies.
I couldn't see the hierarchy until it wasn't there anymore. And that's when I was like, wow, this is why this relationship is weird, right?
That's so interesting. And, by the way, I'm not saying everything should be put evenly, but I think if you're contributing something, you end up feeling better. I know that feels so strange.
It does. It feels counterintuitive. It does. But you're 100% right. And even sometimes what you contribute can look differently.
I know I've been in situations in my life where, like I can't afford the, you know, whatever, so I'll cook for everybody and I'll create a service or contribute in a way that is really meaningful, but that's not necessarily financial.
Yes, absolutely. But to her question, I don't think a single person should be paying the same as the couple. Should they? A lot of this is about sleeping, right? I mean, that becomes like, oh, it's like who gets a bed?
This also is a whole thing if you're with couples, and singles, like couples automatically get the best bed.
They get the best bed and you get the pull out because just you. So you deserve to be the least comfortable one. I mean, it's funny because I just went on a girl's trip to Coachella for the first time, and me and my friend Eliza, we're in the low end of our group and so we're always figuring out ways to save and we split a bed, and I think that we deserve to pay less because we split a bed.
Okay. So in your situation, there's how many rooms?
There were three rooms.
And how many people?
Five of us. So one person had their own room and the two other ones shared beds. And I feel like the person who gets her own room should be paying more.
I agree. Yes.
Whether it's a couple or a person, right?
Like. I think it should be per room. Yeah. And their room rate then was split in between. Yes, exactly.
Between the two of you. So it's kind of like split evenly, the rooms. When we do trips with other families, I'll offer to pay a little more because I want the primary bedroom. Right. Well, right.
Yes. If you get the bigger room because there's kids and all that stuff, that you should be paying more than the smaller room.
But I think we're kind of all saying the same thing. It's like it's kind of the breakdown of the room situation. It's like the nicest room, biggest room, you probably pay more. Yeah. It's a complicated equation where you weigh each of the rooms.
I know. Okay, let me see. Okay. So it's she's single. Then there's two couples and one of the couples has a kid.
Okay. So three bedroom, one bedroom. So here's the thing. The problem is, in this case, she is going to have her own bedroom. The shittiest bedroom, most likely too.
She'll get the shittiest one. Yeah.
Right. Because the couple with the kid is going to get the best room. Biggest room. Then the other couple is probably going to get the second, even though that's not fair, but yeah. And then she's going to get the third.
The cellar with the bed. Let's say, for the sake of this, they're all the same size. The problem is, and I see this, she just will have a bedroom to herself, but she's like, I would need to split that. The one bathroom also complicates it. That is a horrible idea.
That's like a separate rate of like five people sharing the bathroom. One bathroom, they're all sharing. The bathroom, split five ways as well. No. I mean, look, the truth is no one's going to do this type of math.
I mean, to me, it's out of her price range. Why is she going?
They should be making that call. They should be aware that their friend can't afford a third of this.
She can't afford it. I mean, that's where this starts.
People need to make up for that. Or say you can bring somebody else or pay what you can, or we'll find another place or.
it won't work.
Yeah, exactly.
If you can't afford it, you're going to be resentful.
Okay. Last year I planned a trip. It was my idea and I wanted to pay the majority of it. But I still have this sense of what I said at the beginning, which is, I do think, like everyone feels better if everyone's contributed something. So I paid half and then everyone split the rest.
But it was per person, not including kids. But the rest of the adults split. So it wasn't per bedroom. It was per person. I mean, part of it goes into the planning, though, too.
Like if everyone is having an equal say and we're renting this house for this budget, or you're being like, I'm just going to get this baller house, and here's what I want to pay. And here's what I want everyone else to cover. Yeah, exactly. But I guess, like me doing that, I knew that everyone would be able to afford. It's like, you have to know what people can afford and not afford.
But so she wants to bring a friend.
Yeah, but it's that person's birthday. It'd be like if I brought you to, well, and it wouldn't be if I brought you, but it'd be like if I brought Rob to Callie's birthday trip. This was fun.
I mean, okay, if I brought like that guy to Callie's birthday trip, you know, like I think she's saying she'd bring a friend, but that friend isn't connected to these people.
I mean, so would be your boyfriend. Like if you were in a relationship, like. this is the part where I'm like, we're just set up to fail. Why can't we bring a significant other? No one knows.
If I was having sex with that person, then they would be coming. Why if we're not having sex, you know? Although, is it different?
Well, I'm just being real. So it was my birthday. You don't want a bunch of boyfriends.
I don't. And then I'd be like, okay, I'll pay the difference.
Yeah, I know.
If really she can't afford it, she should say like, I can afford this if I'm bringing a person and then see what the group says. And then the group can say, oh, we don't really want to, we'll like, we'll split your difference. Or they'll say, sure. Or they'll say we're uncomfortable, and then you can discuss.
I think so. I think she just needs to be clear. She can't afford it. Yes. As far as just in general, splitting per bedroom or per person, I guess it's case by case.
Yeah. It was in the house entirely. It's a tough one. Yeah.
I mean, I think it's per room. I've done a lot of these, you know, when I'm single and I just go like, this is gonna be more. I mean, traveling single is just more expensive. You know, you're not splitting with anyone.
Default per room. Right. But maybe there's some wiggle room in there. There's some factors because some rooms will be better than others.
Yeah. And maybe that can be a thing. You're like, I'm happy to take the smaller room if I could pay less, so I can afford this. Right. You know, just give options.
Yeah. And also kids, unfortunately, kids don't have money. Yeah. So you have to remove them from the equation. I think so too.
Yeah. It's just the adults you're kind of factoring in. Yeah.
If there's plenty of food costs and groceries, I expect the people with kids to pay more, but that's just me. I would. I wouldn't be mad if they didn't, but if I had kids and I was bringing my kids, I would be like, we'll chimp in more.
What's a head count at that point for the food? Including the kids' heads. Maybe you're doing a half head. Oh, God. No.
It's a lot of math.
It is. Some Excel spreadsheets and you're good.
This weekend, Rupi put us all on Splitsville. No, what's it called? Split. No, it's like, it's an app. It's not sponsored.
It's called Splitwise. You put your Venmo and then, every time you, like I paid for this Uber for all of us to go or, like someone bought groceries and you put it in and then everyone, just like transfers, like, puts you back.
Oh, interesting.
And so there's no weird like adding up.
Oh my God. We went to a bachelorette party a year and a half ago, maybe, and figuring out the money at the end of all this was laughable. It was so insane. And it wears you out. You're ultimately just like, whatever.
So Rupi and our friend Eliza, we went on a trip to Ibiza and we ended up thinking we would all split it. And in the end, it kind of evens out.
Right.
And maybe, yeah, a few bucks difference. But if you do it kind of by ear, you know, it usually kind of-.
If you play by ear. If you sight read.
No, what's the word I'm looking for? Like when you even it out by, we say in French, like with your eye, eyeing it out. I don't know.
Oh, my God. By ear was think right. Yeah.
Sorry. French rabbit hole.
I know what you mean, though. It's like, you can feel if someone's way overpaid or not. And then even that out.
Yeah. Girls trips, it's not even a girl trip, but I feel like there can be so much drama and conflict and I think the money thing, you just want to keep it as simple as possible. But it's so hard not to make it into a thing, especially again, like in the friends episode, where people have different incomes, which that's very common.
Yeah. That's in most group dynamics.
100%. And it's not like one person's always making more. People's situations change.
Yes. Okay. It's okay. We have answered it.
I hope that at least, Lillian, you know that all of this is normal. We're all dealing with this bullshit and they're probably thinking about another version of this, and it's normal to feel this kind of trepidation.
Cautionary tale, because I know that there's some people that are like, well, if you have a lot of money, like, none of this is an issue. I understand. feeling that. Obviously, having a higher income or more money makes things easier. There's just no getting around it.
It does. But, my friends, they went on a birthday trip. It was a person's maybe 50th or 60th birthday or something. Very wealthy person, extremely wealthy person, who paid for everyone.
Oh, my gosh.
Private jet to this amazing resort.
Oh, my gosh.
In Mexico. Okay. Everything paid for. The whole resort was bought out, and then dinners, every night, parties, they paid for face paint or something. I don't know.
Massages. Face paint.
Face paint is so expensive.
Face paint is a big stretch. If you are paying for people's face paint- Private jet's fine.
Face paint.
What?
Anyway.
Okay. But I can't give any details, but basically this party turned where it became a white lotus situation. All of a sudden they're in this environment where they're like, oh no, this is really bad and wrong, but you're stuck and this person has paid and you think you're in this lap of luxury, but then you also feel like, well, I can't say something's wrong. It just can get very complicated. So money can also fuck things up too.
And there are situations too, where someone's offering to pay for everything and then something turns in the trip. They don't feel like they're getting what they need or wanted or expected. They're always, not strings attached, but again, power dynamics, and then you can end up being kicked out or being kicked out. or they changed their mind, or there's an assumption, and then they're like, oh no, actually only this part was paid. And then you get, I don't know, if it sounds too good to be true, very often it might be.
And so I think maybe just being honest upfront is a good move of like, hey, I'm struggling a little bit right now financially, just letting you know. I mean, I'd still love to try to make this work, but I don't think I can afford a full room by myself. Just be honest about that.
Start giving options that you know they won't even really want to go with. Maybe I could come for last night so that I can afford it. So that you're kind of giving them an option if they want to extend any generosity without asking for it. And look, if they don't, then you have your answer and then you'll do a little dinner with them or whatever. Right?
Like it happens. And I think that's a better option than going somewhere where you're being resentful or feeling stressed with money. It won't be fun for you.
Well, it makes it easier for her to say, I'll bring my friend then too. Yes. If they're like, no, this is a hard line. It's going to be more expensive. That could be.
one of the options is, could I possibly bring someone who I'll split the room with? Right. I mean, I will just say here, no one is allowed to bring a random friend to my birthday, to my birthday trip, to my birthday trip, to my birthday party. That's even still, I don't love it.
What if they went on a few dates with this person that are dating them?
I don't love it.
Okay. Then you're consistent.
At my birthday party, house trip, I want to feel the most comfortable. And so, if there's like a new person, no thanks.
Got it.
Even if it is your new boyfriend.
I'm such a pissy. Oh God. I'm like, I'm too.
That seems so mean, but that's me.
No. It just depends.
Yeah. Oh, it's all so nuanced.
Okay.
Well, this was so fun. So fun. I'm so happy to be back with you. Me too. We'll be back to answer more really fun, thoughtful questions.
I mean, every time we do anything at all under our armchair umbrella, I'm always just so honestly moved.
Me too, yeah.
By how thoughtful our listeners are and interesting and introspective. Yeah. And so all these questions are amazing and we're so excited to keep going through them and keep you updated. on Liz's foot. And she did lose her footing.
She hates that, but she did lose her footing. And her celery boyfriend.
And her celery boyfriend.
That's right. All right. We'll see you next week. See you.
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