Episode 486: Murder of Sophie Lancaster

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast. What's the answer, and what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

Hysterical, a new podcast from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free on Wondery. Plus. Hey weirdos, I'm Alayna.

And I'm ash, and this is morbid.

Whoa, hey, that's new. heyo, What's up girly pop? Hello. We saw some of you last week in New York City in the Big Apple Baby.

And you guys were delightful and awesome, it was so fun, it was so fun to talk about the book with you guys. And I got to have Ash there because she's my, you know, emotional support. Ash, yeah.

I take her everywhere, no matter what, I take her everywhere, no matter what. But it was really cool to see you guys and you were awesome and you were such a fun audience, and it was cool to be on stage again.

Yeah, it was so good to see you guys. And thank you for all the people that gave us gifts. Oh my God, that was so nice. People gave us sunflowers, we got crystals.

The kindest? We got a bunch of Taylor Swift bracelets, some cool notes that were just really kind and awesome looking, nice notes, yeah.

Um, cool cards. I was just really thrown back by all the people that gave us their Taylor Swift bracelets. Because I think those things are, like, fucking important. Yeah, I had no idea. So I'm. It's like a love language between swifties, as far as I'm told, so I'm feeling the love.

And I hope you guys are dug the, uh, the sneak peek at book two in your paperbacks. It's cool that you get to read it now. You're all part of the club now. With Ash, I feel weird.

I feel like I feel like my club was taken from me in an instant. No, now it's just a warm, fuzzy club of people. No, I'm kidding, I'm. I'm like, pretty stoked that you guys got to read that, cause that's a bomb ass chapter.

And fun fact I've read a whole bunch of the second book, so it's fucking terrifying. What did I say we should put on the front of it as a quote? For me, not actually. Sometimes you're terrified to be in my orbit, yes.

I said, I'm very terrified to be in Elena's inner orbit, and she's my sister. Um, I like that. I'm also going to start carrying a note around in my pocket and I told John that he should probably do the same, okay?

I love that effect I have on you guys, you're welcome, but thank you, I don't know you're welcome.

Today I have a very, very, very tragic case. Um, this is the case of Sophie Lancaster. If you've never heard this one, it's like, I said, very tragic, and if you had, then you know, a very sad tale. I know the background of this one, and it is a horrifying story.

It's gut-wrenching, but I think it's honestly like a really important story to tell, as are all of the stories that we tell. And I think we should just dive into it. Yeah, so, Sophie Lancaster was born November 26th, 1986, to John and Sylvia Lancaster, in the Rosendale borough of Lancashire, England. And I looked up how to say that.

Good job, thank you. At the time, it was not necessarily the best place to live in the world. Uh, Rosendale was being hit hard by a dwindling economy. The area was falling into a bit of disrepair.

Just like not the best vibes. But Sophie's family, which was made up of her, her parents, Uh, and her older brother, Adam, they had a really happy life together. Like a a core four home unit kind of thing. Oh, Sylvia, um. Sophie's mother said that Sophie was so intelligent and sensitive, and she told reporters how much Sophie loved to read how she was interested in social justice issues. And she just really wanted to be involved in making the world a better place for everybody in it, which is so much more tragic.

So much more tragic, uh, Sylvia, Sophie's mom, she worked with kids, so she was pretty familiar with all the different kinds of phases that kids go through while they're growing up. So it really didn't come as any surprise to her when Sophie started, you know, dressing differently than other kids at her school. And started getting more into heavy metal and kind of hard rock music. Good for her, yeah.

She was just like, it's par for the course, and Sylvia said. As Sophie entered high school. And kind of entered this quote unquote phase, which really wasn't a phase that she, quote, knew it was her way of marking herself out as an individual. What a cool mom. Yeah, what a cool mom.

And what a cool kid. Yeah, you know, that's really cool it is. And obviously she felt very supported to be able to, like, confidently, go forth like that.

It definitely seems like it. And luckily, eventually, Sophie did meet other kids who shared her same interests and her taste in music. And that was when she really leaned more into what you, I guess you would call the Goth aesthetic. She loved to wear, quote a long black leather coat and lace gloves and tops.

Oh, hell yeah, and I love that, like she made it her own. What a cool chick, yeah.

Like with the lace gloves, I love that nice little touch. And then from there, her style choices evolved, and eventually she would, you know, dye her hair all different kinds of colors she would add, like facial piercings that were cool.

She, I saw a picture, she was so cool, she's a cool fucking chick. So some parents might've worried about, you know, the dark clothing, the heavy makeup. I remember when I started wearing eyeliner and black nail polish, my dad was actually very concerned, which is really funny to think about now.

Hi dad, Yeah, um, and you know, parents might like fight against that kind of thing. But Sophie's parents, Sylvia and John, they really didn't think much of it. They were like, they're cool parents. She's just expressing herself and we're happy that she feels comfortable doing that.

She's not hurting anyone, she's not hurting herself. Yeah, and actually, they gave her credit. They were proud of her for being so comfortable, asserting her individuality. Especially at such a time in her life where she was probably going to be judged for doing it, you know?

Sylvia and John Sylvia and John, Fuck yeah forever. But still, according to Sylvia, Sophie was a quote unquote, typical, rebellious teen.

And, of course, they would find themselves in arguments, just like any other mother and teenage daughter, teenage son or whatever have you. They would fight over small infractions like sneaking out to concerts and that kind of thing. Yeah, the youge. So Sophie eventually met a guy named Robert Maltby through her friend group.

And that was when she was in her junior year of high school. And they just hit it off almost instantly. By all accounts, they shared the same taste in music, they shared fashion choices together, and they both had really thoughtful, sensitive personalities.

And it seems like Rob was pretty welcomed by Sophie's family, not just her friends, her family as well. Sylvia said. They were such a sweet couple and they were totally devoted to one another. Oh my God, that is like.

Like, this was a young, beautiful love. Oh it, it hurts. So Rob and Sophie quickly became inseparable, and Sophie actually kind of became Rob's artistic muse. I'm loving this, it's it's beautiful.

He would paint one portrait after another of Sophie that Sylvia actually displayed in her in her home until she passed away. Oh my God, in 2022, that is heart wrenching. And if you look them up, he's an incredibly talented artist.

These are like beautiful paintings. Rob told The Guardian in 2017. We'd see friends at weekends, but day to day it was just the two of us. It was always just Rob and Sophie. Oh, I love, love so much, I love that.

Now, Sophie and Rob had found some solace and support in each other because, you know, they could bounce ideas off of each other. They had these similar tastes, they had a deep connection and love for each other. But that didn't mean that they didn't still deal with a ton of discrimination and abuse because of their interests and their appearances. And particularly in the relatively working class suburbs of Rosendale, they were different and people didn't like that. That's ridiculous.

It's basically just that they didn't go along with the with the grain. So Sylvia remembered that Sophie had a lot of problems at school when it came to fitting in the other kids, girls especially, and we all know how girls are in high school. Yeah, it can be tough, it can be very tough.

And these were the kind that weren't into, like the goth thing that Sophie was into. They treated her just like she was shit, they treated her like a weirdo. And because it's threatening to see somebody so confidently being themselves, it is.

Because people like that don't know who they are yet. Nope at all, nope. And so Sophie did have feelings of isolation, but at the same time, she did know who she was.

And, like I said, was confident in that. Yeah, she wasn't like those other kids, and she really didn't want to be. Yeah, she was somebody who actually became vegan when she was six years old.

She started getting into the goth and metal scene when she was 11, and she was really open when it came to talking about what she found interesting. Hell yeah, cause sometimes, like kids at that age, they can squash you from expressing any kind of passionate like for something. Cause you feel like they're like, Oh, you're such a nerd, you're such a geek.

You're into that so much like, so you're just like squash, all that. It's cool that she was just like, No, yeah, she just let her personality and everything about her just shine through.

But unfortunately, her confidence in herself did not save her or Rob from some pretty shitty and horrible situations. They both had been subject to verbal abuse, people yelling rude comments at them, and sometimes it would actually escalate into minor physical violence. Imagine giving a shit that hard about what somebody else is doing that affects you in no way whatsoever. Couldn't be me, honey, like, what what a weird creature these people are.

Like, it's so weird. No, it really is. But luckily they both fell back on their confidence and I would say, probably their love for one another. They had each other and it wasn't like a relationship where it's like, it's us against the world. It was just this beautiful, deep love and they supported each other.

Exactly, and so they just kept on expressing themselves freely. Now. In 2007, Sophie and Rob actually moved in together into a small apartment in Bay Cup, a small town in Rosindale. Rob had just started his first year at Manchester School of Art and he was working towards a degree in illustration, which is really fucking cool. And Sophie? She had decided to take a gap year, but she was looking forward to starting work on an English degree the next year.

So they had plans, just artistes, artistes, and they had plans. They had a really promising future ahead of them.

They were actually even starting to talk about getting married, like just planning their life together, and it seems like they really were meant for each other. Yeah, absolutely. But all their plans for their future came crashing down in the early morning hours of August 11th, 2007. Because of some of the world's most disgusting monsters. Awesome.

So on Friday, August 10th, 2007, Sophie and Rob actually went to just go hang out with a friend. They went to visit their friend Jonathan in Britannia. The three made plans for a nine o'clock or for nine o'clock, and spent about two and a half hours at Jonathan's apartment. Just having a drink, watching some TV, just hanging out with friends. And then after that, Sophie and Rob headed home a little after 1130 p..m.

And at about midnight, they stopped into an all night service station because Rob wanted to buy some cigarettes. And then, on the way out, or while they were there, actually, they ran into some kids that they knew, chatted for a bit and then walked as a group to a nearby section of Bay Cup. Known as the Fudge Factory, which is actually a reference to an old candy company that had once occupied the lot. Oh, that's cool, it made me think of Willy Wonka, the chocolate factory. But after spending about 20 or so minutes just chatting with their friends there, Sophie and Rob said their goodbyes. And they continued on their way home. And they were going to walk through Stubby Lee Park.

Okay. At about 110 a..m, Sophie and Rob came up upon a group of teenagers, including 15-year-old Brendan Harris, 16-year-old Ryan Herbert, brothers Joseph and Danny Holm. I think is how you say it. They were 16 and 15, respectively, and 17-year-old Daniel Mallett. Remember those ages? These are all young kids, not even one of them is 18..

Now, these five boys referred to themselves as the Bay Cup terror group. Wow, super scary. And they had previously been at a local cafe and arcade known as The Cage, where they each had around four pints of lager. And did shots of peach schnapps. Okay?

So they were loaded now. Just before Rob and Sophie had entered Stubby Lee Park. This group of teens had made their way down to the skate park with a bunch of other people, and that skate park was near the center of the park. And that is exactly where they were all hanging out when Rob and Sophie walked by, just minding their own fucking business walking home.

Walking home. So Rob felt a little bit nervous because one of the boys approached him and asked for a cigarette. And it just something about it. I think his flight or fight senses just kicked in. Yeah, like, couldn't explain it, but just like it's got a vibe.

Got a vibe, exactly. He had a feeling that they should just keep going, but being a nice guy, he stopped. And as he reached for his pack, this 14 year old girl, who was with a group, overheard one of the boys say, Shall we batter him? What the fuck?

Just giving someone a cigarette just stops, like, like, super fast. And then out of nowhere shall we batter him? I don't like you have nothing better to do. The human species truly gets worse and worse every day.

Aliens take me away. Truly then, not actually, though, then, without any warning or any kind of provoking. Brendan Harris stepped forward and just slapped Rob across the face. What a tough guy, you just slapped him.

Yeah, so it caught Rob off guard, and honestly, probably out of just sheer confusion, he laughed. Of course, you would cause.

You're just like, What the fuck cause you're pathetic? You piece of shit like you literally just stepped forward and slapped me in the face and he was probably just like, with no warning, like you idiot, yeah.

Like, taken off guard and just like, What the fuck are you doing?

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I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like, at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering, super bad. I'm like, stop fucking around. She's like, I can't.

A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast, like doubling and tripling. And it's all these girls with a diagnosis. The state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back.

Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, it's hysteria.

It's all in your head, it's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem, or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here.

Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline, and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical Follow Hysterical. On the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts, you can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

So as soon as he laughed, the other four boys in the terror gang lost it. Oh, no, they can't handle someone laughing at them. No, no, even more pathetic, truly.

And I just want to say this is when it gets particularly graphic, so if this is something you want to skip by, I totally understand. It's really violent. So somebody jumped down from one of the skate ramps and kicked Robin the head, knocking him to the ground. And this is just out of nowhere.

They just walked through, they just walked through and stopped to give someone a cigarette, to do something for someone, like, So scary, it's so scary. So he fell to the ground.

And once he was on the ground, they all of them just started beating him relentlessly. They were laughing, they were taunting Sophie and Rob as they just kicked and punched him, punched him over and over and over again. And he's laying on the ground trying to protect himself. So Sophie obviously runs over to Rob's side and yells at this group to just leave them alone.

She's like, stop. But that only further encouraged these sick fucks, and they turned on Sophie, a woman who fucking raised these animals.

Probably not great parents, and I feel confident saying that because we'll get to it later. Yeah, those are fucking animals, animals.

And the other thing is, it's like, where are your parents? You're 15, 16, 17 years old in the middle of the night, just at a skate park.

Violently beating people as they pass through, like, what the hell is wrong? If you want to be at a skate park, skating in the middle of the night, sure, that's your prerogative. Leave everybody alone, exactly.

Mind your fucking business. So, one witnessed a 15-year-old boy who was there and tried to get them to stop. Because it's this group of teenagers, but then it's like just some other teenagers hanging out and watching this. Like, Oh my god, what the fuck is happening? Thank goodness, somebody tried to get them to stop. That was pretty brave of that other 15-year-old.

Multiple people did, actually, and this one, like I said, 15-year-old boy. He just yelled at, he tried, he yelled at them, trying to get them to stop, and he later said. They were running over and just kicking her in the head and jumping up and down on her head, what the fuck?

Out of nowhere, they did this to this couple. Oh my god. Another girl among the group later told detectives. I started crying because I'd never seen anything like that. They were all just booting them, they were making loads of noises, screaming noises.

They were booting them in the head, swinging the leg back properly, booting them like jumping on them. Like animals. Honestly, not even. I was just going to say, not even animals will do this, not even animals, exactly.

Shit. The attack on Sophie and Rob lasted a few minutes, but it must have felt like hours for them. Because I, I've never heard of anything like this, I can't believe this like this is just so, oh, it's, it's sickening, it's like it truly is.

So once they decided that they were done, the boys just casually walked out of the park and left Rob and Sophie laying completely brutalized, unconscious on the ground. What the fuck? Months later, a witness would describe them to the jury. The the teenagers, as quote, behaving in a giddy way, hyperactive and bouncing around, doing silly things as they left. I have no words. It's not even humane.

It's not even animalistic. I don't even know how to describe what they did, I don't. And as they left the park, one of the attackers stopped a boy going in and told him they had just beaten up two people in the park. And then another in the group chimed in.

You want to see them, they're a right mess, like. And then they gave the boy Rob's phone, which they had stolen from his unconscious body, and then just left the park altogether. Just went about their night after leaving two people, I'm sorry.

They didn't even know if they were dead or alive. These kids need to be caged up and like, throw away that key, throw it like that is some unhinged.

Beyond, if you're capable. This is one of those things where obviously, obviously this isn't not in the U.S. But and while I was doing this, I was thinking like, Oh my God, what if they get out because of that whole Constitution thing? And then I was like, Oh, wait, it's not in the U.S. Even here. I'm like, if you can do this at any age, this is like a young level of violence and a level of like there was no provocation here.

None whatsoever. That wouldn't even be okay with provocation. No, but the fact that these kids are just walking through the park and this happens. Like, that's something you can't like, you can't take that out of someone like, that's, that's scary.

That's that's inside you and that is deep rooted and I don't. How do you work through that? No, you don't, I don't think that is.

That's beyond now. Even though the boys who had attacked Sophie and Rob had left the park, there were several teenagers still remaining at the scene. Just in absolute shock. Multiple of those people called for an ambulance. The first call was placed at 1 17 a.m. and the second at 1 19 a.m. And the calls for an ambulance triggered an alert to the local police with a message Assault in a park, in a park, Park road, sorry, possibly near a skate park, so they didn't have a legit location.

While police and ambulance services tried to locate the scene of the attack, more calls were placed to emergency services. Because they were like, Where are you? Like, you have to get here. Another one at 1 23 a.m. and then finally another one at 1 29 a.m. Thank goodness, these kids are calling.

Yeah, seriously, you know, like, thank goodness, they stepped up and like, did some cause. I mean, there's adults that won't intervene even enough to call an ambulance, you know what I mean?

So I'm glad that they all came together and were like, we got to get somebody here, for sure. So Jonathan, the friend that Sophie and Rob had spent the night with, hanging out that very night. He was woken up by his phone ringing at about 1 30 a.m. And he saw that the call was coming from Rob's cell phone. So he answered right away, of course, but heard nothing on the other end.

And he just hung up after a minute or two, probably assumed that it was like a butt dial. Yeah. But he, after he hung up, texted Rob's phone to be like, Hey, like you good man, but he didn't get any kind of response. The phone rang again about a half hour later.

And this time, when Jonathan answered the call, the voice on the other end was not Rob's. It was a teenage boy who said, Have you got two friends down in Bay Cup Park? And the caller told Jonathan, There's two moshers here and they look like they're dead, holy shit before just hanging up the phone.

Oh man, that just gave me chills. So Jonathan rushed down to the nearby park and he obviously found it was filled with police and emergency service workers. But no one would tell him anything because they just couldn't in that moment. But he's looking on, hearing like that. His friends were just attacked and look like they're dead, and he can't have any way of finding out what happens.

So paramedics did arrive at Stubby Lee Park at one 20 in the morning. And they were absolutely shocked to find Rob and Sophie in the state that they were in. They both suffered obviously severe injuries to their heads and faces, and Quote were so badly beaten. Police had difficulty establishing their sex. Oh God.

So they were rushed to, Uh, I believe it's Rochdale Infirmary, where they both received emergency care and were stabilized. Luckily, before being transferred to larger hospitals for inpatient care, Rob got transferred to North Manchester General Hospital and Sophie to Fairfield Hospital. They both had serious trauma. They were unrecognizable to their families. I can't even imagine this.

But at the same time, their injuries were not considered to be life threatening at that point. So, while they both arrived at the Rochdale or Rochdale infirmary and an unconscious state, they actually were both expected to recover. Oh God, so the extent of their injuries was just like unimaginable. You can't even begin to fathom the state that they were in.

Like I said, they had both been beaten severely about their face and head, so there was really, really intense, very serious swelling. Which would have been horrifying for anybody knowing them, like their family members, to see, I can't, and their parents, can you imagine seeing your baby like that?

I can't, I can't either. And they were. Also. They had been bleeding from their ears and noses. That's how bad it was. Rob suffered internal bleeding and bleeding on the brain.

And Sophie, this is horrific, had deep boot impressions on her face, and this is very graphic. I'd quote a piece of flesh missing from her head, where her attackers were are believed to have yanked her hair out.

Animals, not even the scariest kind of animals, like, I can't. Even this is outrageous.

You would? This is one of those things where you say you'd see it in a movie and you'd be like, no way. Like, that's too much. Yeah, now, once, poor families, too.

Like, I just like, truly to have to see your loved one like that. This is beyond your worst nightmare. Your brain, I don't even think, could come up with this on its own, I hope now. Once the pair had been stabilized, Jonathan, the friend, was brought to the Rochedale Infirmary and he was actually asked to identify Rob.

Oh my god. But he was not allowed to see Sophie at that current time. They were still doing a bunch of stuff you need to know.

Exactly so, because the dispatcher hadn't been able to provide a precise location, the police actually initially went to a different location. They went to Park Road and Edge, uh, Edgeside, and then they were redirected to Stubby Lee Park, where they arrived at 1 45 a.m. That's tough.

That's really tough. That's a big span of time it is now. Initially, the remaining teenagers at the scene were being sketchy and they didn't want to talk to investigators, so the motive for the brutal attack wasn't obvious.

Cause there is no motive, there isn't one. But because some personal belongings were missing, specifically Rob's cell phone, detectives considered that actually a robbery might've been what prompted this assault. Because of course, the police are looking at this and they're like, something had to have started this, like, how does this just happen?

Out of nowhere. But after interviewing several witnesses, they concluded Quote The two people who were attacked followed the gothic trend, and potentially this could have been a motive.

That's not a motive, that's not a motive. You don't kill people because they're gothic. Yeah, now. Luckily, even though some of the witnesses at the scene weren't comfortable disclosing any information, a few were willing to tell the detectives what happened.

And they actually identified three of the five boys responsible for the attack. So by late morning, Uh, police had begun rounding up those that they believed to be responsible for the attack on Rob and Sophie. Starting with Ryan Ryan Herbert. The arrest of Herbert was followed a couple hours later by the arrests of Brendan Harris and Daniel Mallett. And then detectives would arrest Danny Holm at his parents house the following day, and his brother Joseph would later turn himself into police a few hours later.

Yeah, I bet you did, yeah, a scared little boy now. The following day, Monday, August 13th, all five were brought before Burnley Magistrate's Court, where they were each charged with two counts of grievous bodily harm with intent. Now, on Wednesday, August 22nd. Rob Maltby's condition had actually improved to the point where he woke from his coma because he was in a coma. But now he was stable enough to visit Sophie in her hospital.

So he was able to visit her and then he was transferred to a hospital closer to his parents house so that they could, you know, take care of him. I can't imagine having to see somebody you love like that, him having to see her.

No, that poor. Oh, I'm sure he probably wanted to, but you almost wish that he didn't have to see her like that, you know? Like, but then, at the same time, what your brain could come up with? I guess I just feel for him on every level you can feel for him.

You, you do, you really do so. Detectives, they were really hopeful, actually. That now that Rob was awake and no longer in a coma, that he would be able to fill in some of the blanks. And any kind of missing information about the night that they were attacked. But again, he just woke up from a coma after considerable brain trauma, so he was quote disoriented and confused. And he actually didn't really remember much from the attack, which I'm grateful that he doesn't have to remember.

That, like, he should never have to remember that. The fact that they caused that much brain trauma, that is, that's that's so significant, like it is hard to cause that much trauma. Oh yeah.

His life is changed forever in so many different ways. Because of these five fucking pricks you can't even like. Nothing you call them is satisfying, exactly because they're, they're that evil.

They're beyond truly. But unfortunately, his memory seemed actually to be even worse once he was taken off, taken off the sedatives that he'd been given early on. According to one of the nurses tending to him, Rob was very restless, difficult to speak to, very repetitive and disoriented. His brain had just gone through.

So much, so, so much like incomprehensible. So the police continued to work in the background, and they were particularly interested in why. Rob and Sophie actually went through Stubbly Park to get home because they only lived a little over a mile from their friend, and they could have taken a more direct route back to their apartment. But, according to their friend Jonathan, it really wasn't that unusual for Sophie and Rob to take a long way home late at night, because Rob and Sophie enjoyed that time of day.

Of course, and they just like spending time with each other. Like a nice nighttime walk. And they should be able to live in a place where you can go on a nice nighttime walk through a park, through a park.

Yeah, like an area there's other people bopping about. They should have been safe, but other than that, nobody came up with an alternative explanation. Because that's good enough.

That's the thing. People take scenic routes all the time just to spend more time together, especially as a couple who clearly enjoyed their time together all the time. Yeah, and they like the nighttime, they're night owls.

They wanted to just walk through the park together, like, and they should have been able to do that. That troubles me. So the case ended up being assigned to Detective Inspector Dean Holden, and he immediately recognized several of these names of the boys who had been implicated.

Because they're little pieces of shit anyway. yeah, they are pieces of shit, yeah. According to Inspector Holden, Ryan Herbert was a local menace, local Prick Ryan Herbert.

Yeah, known for years as a bully at school and a bully in the neighborhood where he lived, thought that kid. He came from a large family and several members of said family were also well known to the police. And police knew that he would act out aggressively or inappropriately to get attention. Wow.

Now, like Ryan Herbert, Brendan Harris was also a local troublemaker and very well known. Actually, weeks before this attack, 15 year old, please remember the ages here. 15 year old Harris had transferred schools due to his behavior, and he was often barred from clubs and establishments for aggressive or inappropriate behavior. But let's not, uh, figure this out before they hurt someone. No, never.

At school and inside his social circle, he was known as a bully who, quote, would pick on others he labeled as geeks. Oh, fuck these kids, you're a fucking geek if anybody's a geek.

How pathetic, how pathetic, truly. Brothers Joseph and Danny Holm lived at a traveler site in Bay Cup, where they shared a trailer next to their parents. So they lived on their own with one another, just right next to their parents.

People were not shocked to hear that Joseph was involved in the attacks on Sophie and Rob. He had quite a reputation for himself, he was actually the leader of the Bay Cup terror group. Uh, self-proclaimed, I'm sure. But people knew he was a very scary kid. But they were actually very surprised that his younger brother, Danny, had also been involved in the attack. Sounds like Danny was just a follower.

Yeah, yup, and that's not the kind of thing you want to follow. Nope, like, what the fuck did you get yourself into here?

This was your time to actually do something. I was just going to say, this would have been your time to, like, stand up on your own. Exactly. But he didn't, nope.

Uh, so he wasn't the only one who surprised Danny. There wasn't the only one who surprised the public by being involved. According to Catherine Smith, who was the editor of the Rosendale Free Press at the time, Daniel Mallett was quote and this is a different Daniel. He was the person least expected to be involved in a crime of this nature.

By most accounts, Daniel was a fairly good student, actually. Uh, his parents had divorced a few years earlier, but they maintained a good relationship and they were a pretty stable family unit. That's scary, that's so scary.

But there were a pretty good number of Daniel's classmates that had noticed some recent changes in his personality. Starting about a year or two earlier, they said that he started to show quote unquote violent tendencies. That's really scary, out of nowhere.

Now, with the public starting to learn more about the case. Back at the hospital after nearly two weeks in a coma with no signs of life at this point, Sophie Lancaster had to be taken off life support on Friday, August 24th, 2007.

That's horrific. So because she had murder, she'd been killed. Her death escalated the assault now to a case of murder. And the Lancashire Police made a statement saying the charges will be reviewed with the Crown Prosecution Service. A murder charge is an option for all five of the youths.

Yeah, charge them all, charge them. So. Two weeks later, all five were again brought before Burnley Magistrates Court and they were charged with the murder of Sophie Lancaster. Rightfully so.

Glad, though, I'm so happy that there wasn't any kind of like, fuck shit with that. Yeah, so to, quite literally, um, nobody surprised. Throughout their interviews with the police, all five of the boys either claimed that they didn't participate in the assault. Or they just pulled pointed fingers at the others for the bulk of the responsibility.

Oh, no, you're not tough guys anymore, huh? No, not so big now, huh? Scared little boys, yeah. The first two times that Joseph Hulme, who again was said to be the leader of the game, was interviewed.

He blamed everybody else for the attack. That's what a good leader does. Yeah, oh yes, turn on your friends.

Yep, not so big and tough now, nope. But the police wanted to know if he wasn't involved, then why were his fingerprints frowned on Rob's cell phone? So weird?

That's pretty weird, yeah.

She struck him with her motor vehicle, she had been under the influence, and then she left him there. In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police coverup, if you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a coverup to prevent one of their own from going down.

Everyone had an opinion and after the 10 week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision to end in a mistrial. It's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case. In Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

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Now, at his third interview, he gave the officers a prepared statement claiming his fingerprints were found on the phone. Because another teenager had handed it to him as they entered the park and asked him if he wanted it, and he looked it over but declined. Yeah, I just turned it over in my hand and then I gave it back. You're a fucking idiot, like, come up with anything better, or just, um, tell the fucking truth.

How about that now? When Joseph Joseph's brother Danny, was interviewed, he also denied any involvement and he blamed the entire assault on Ryan Herbert. In fact, in Danny's version of events, he claimed that he, quote, tried to save Sophie by pulling Ryan Herbert off of her. You know what would have been like the sickest way to save someone? Calling the police in an ambulance immediately upon the start of this, if you were trying to stop it.

Immediately, Yeah, yeah, cause you, uh, didn't do the job.

Good try, Danny now. Like the Holm brothers, Daniel Mallett faced multiple interviews in a short amount of time, and in each interview he admitted to only punching Rob one time. Yeah.

It's so weird, I don't know how any of the other stuff happened. Like, even that is fucked, you don't punch somebody randomly for no fucking reason for walking through a park.

You're still a piece of shit. I just only punched him once. Yeah, I just punched him just for walking, yeah.

And then you watched and can and joined in as you murdered his girlfriend and your friends did ridiculous. So he denied any involvement in laying a finger on Sophie. He said. he had nothing to do with that. He also blamed Brendan Harris and Ryan Herbert for the entire assault on Sophie.

Now, meanwhile, in his interviews Brendan Harris. He repeated a prepared statement which essentially pinned the entire killing on Ryan Herbert, who was refusing to answer any questions from investigators. I think Ryan sounds like he played the biggest part in all of this. Ryan certainly sounds like, uh, the issue here. But everybody was involved, absolutely.

To be clear now, even before any of the details about the attack on Rob and Sophie were made public. The assault prompted a ton of different shocked and outraged responses from the media and just anybody who was hearing about this. Some people directed their frustrations toward the Bay Cuptown government. They were complaining that stubby Lee Park had become quote drunk, violent yobs, and a yob is a rude, noisy and aggressive young person. So they were like, basically, the park is full of little assholes who make everybody's lives miserable.

And they made comments like quote If we had a park range, if we had park rangers, then maybe this tragedy might not have happened. Solid point. I do need something there, yeah, especially if the park is going to be open that late.

Yeah, and there's nobody there monitoring it. Yeah, there's several layers here. Yeah, exactly.

Now, others directed their criticisms just more broadly at society as a whole. One resident told reporters. I think the real issue is why these teenagers were allowed to be out in the early hours of the morning unsupervised and drinking alcohol. True, yup.

But regardless of where people placed the blame, they all agreed that the attack in the park was just further evidence of a national problem of increased violence. From what they were calling disgruntled young people. That's the thing it is, it's it, it, and especially during that time, that's scary, it is scary.

Cause they were like, what the fuck is going on here? Like, we need to get some programs instilled in this city, we need to get some park rangers put at the park. Yeah, clearly an overhaul needs to be happening here on every level, precisely.

All the way down to home, all the way down, yes, exactly, even at home, yeah.

So the attack on Rob and Sophie happened at a moment in UK politics, actually, where people were getting more and more concerned with what. Then Prime Minister David Cameron referred to as quote unquote. Our broken society Now Prime Minister Cameron's point about the broken society was mostly actually focused on a series of unconnected crimes that were happening throughout the UK, where children had committed shocking acts of violence. Just like the one we're talking about, so scary, against other children and even against adults. And he, he was correct.

There definitely was an issue regarding violence, especially when you hear that on the night that Rob was attacked and Sophie was murdered. Three teenagers in Cheshire kicked this man named Gary Newlove to death in front of his family after a night of binge drinking. What the fuck the same night a man was kicked to death in front of his family? And then, several months after, everything we've already talked about at this point. Three teenagers stabbed another boy to death in London after a minor argument between their friend groups. Oh my god.

So everybody was getting really, really nervous about what the fuck was going on here. So Prime Minister Cameron's comments about a broken Britain, they became an important talking part of excuse me, talking point in a push for increased law enforcement and social restrictions. Yeah, but even outside of the political spotlight. The attack, the attack and murder of Sophie and attack on Rob, was triggering new discussions. About the effects of intolerance on Alt communities in UK and everywhere throughout the world. Yeah.

When details of the attacker's whole anti-goth motive began kind of circulating amongst the press, that's when Sophie's death took on a greater significance. Especially for activists that were promoting tolerance. Yeah, so there was a lot of different social issues connected to this at this point, for sure.

Now, by the end of 2007, Sylvia, Sophie's mom, had actually established. Stamp out prejudice, hatred and intolerance everywhere, which the acronym for that, if you didn't notice, is Sophie again. Stamp out prejudice, hatred and intolerance everywhere. I love that, Sophie. It was a nonprofit organization dedicated to raising awareness of the effects of hate crimes and advocating for policy changes.

The fact that this woman was able to do that by the end of the year, that she had lost her daughter, her only daughter. She is a badass. So, through social media lecture campaigns, branded items like wristbands, t-shirts, Sophie still works to promote quote a greater understanding and acceptance of all people. Oh, I love that. That was Sylvia's mission, but it also seems like that was Sophie's mission, like when she was here, you know? Within weeks of her death, the social media pages for the organization had attracted thousands of followers.

Everyone was offering condolences, people were sharing stories of their own experiences with intolerance. And the organization and its message held special significance among the heavy metal and the goth music scenes. In particular. Because those people were constantly aware of the abuse and violence that had been directed at Sophie and Rob, because they'd gone through it themselves. That's awful. And then it went national like, or national international, it went international across the world.

It did across the world, musicians, artists, fans, everybody. They were writing songs, they were creating memorials to Sophie in places like Bay Cup and Whitby, where the annual Goth Weekend is held. Love that there were still all kinds of memorial signs up for Sophie.

There were commemorative benches, other installations like that was not going away. No, so. In the years since her death, tributes to Sophie and the commemoration of her her memory have only grown. They grow and grow, and grow every year.

Now there's actually high profile memorials at events like Bloodstock. Open Air, which is an annual British heavy metal festival. That's amazing and thousands of people attend that festival every year, so that's so cool. Sophie's legacy lives on.

And you know, she loves that, oh, like, that is. And she deserves that. She deserves that to be taken from this world at such a young age and with her whole life.

The most senseless shit ever. And her whole life, and like plans ahead of her, you know, it's nice to see that she can live on in some way now. Sylvia, her mom, was determined that her daughter's death would not be meaningless, but at the same time, she also didn't want Sophie to become a martyr.

So Sophie campaign manager Kate Conway Greenwood told reporters Martyrs choose what they do, but Sophie had no choice. In the horrible way she died. That's the thing. She did not want to be here, she did not want like, like.

We just said like, she would love to see all those, you know, that's how she's being at memorials. But she, she didn't want that. No, she wanted to live, she wanted to be there, she had goals.

At that festival, she didn't want to be, you know, the center of a memorial there. Like, it's amazing that that's happening, but it shouldn't have to happen. She didn't ask for this.

No, so, instead of being remembered for how or why she died. Sylvia and everybody at Sophie. They worked tirelessly to make sure that Sophie's life served as a platform for spreading a message of tolerance and acceptance. And I just think that's really amazing that they were able to do that, for sure. So back to the case here.

As family and friends began the work of promoting Sophie's memory and legacy. The police in Bay Cup continued the slow, methodical work of interviewing more than a hundred people who had come forward with new information. Detective Inspector Dean Holden told the press I'm grateful for the positive reporting we've received. And, according to him, because so many of the witnesses and others with information were children. The interview processes required additional time because there was a lot of different protocol that had to be followed and that wasn't usually required in the process of interviewing adults. Like consent and all that.

Right, this is a very different case and a very different way of investigating. But still, the turnout of information actually had been surprisingly good. That's great, useful.

Yeah, and investigators were working on a strong case against Rob and Sophie's attackers. So, in January 2008, all five boys appeared before a judge at the Crown Court in Preston, Excuse me, Crown Court at Preston in Lancashire. Where they all pleaded not guilty to the charge of murder in the case of Sophie Lancaster, as well as not guilty to the charge of grievous bodily harm in the case of Rob Maltby and Sophie Lancaster. Wow, okay.

It's like, you're going to do everything that you did to them, and you know, you did that. And you're not even going to take responsibility, not even going to take responsibility. Like, how fucking low are you?

Yeah, so since their arrest, Daniel, Mallett and the Holm brothers, they had actually been released on bail. WOW into the custody of their parents and were expected to adhere to a 9 p.m. curfew.

9 p.m. That's what I said. Okay, I'm glad I wasn't crazy. 9 p.m.

They can go troll about the streets until 9 p.m. I know that you, uh, murdered an entire person and attacked two people, but, uh, just be home by nine. Damn, are you kidding? holy shit?

And the other stipulation was that they were not to have contact with any witnesses in the case. Oh yeah, I'm sure they adhere to that shit and no contact with Rob Maltby. I can imagine how Rob and Sophie's family, like how Rob felt that they're just trolling around out there.

And then how Sophie's family felt, cause Rob probably felt in danger, I'm assuming, but I would feel that way and angry, I would be so angry.

And he's trying to recover, yeah, he's trying to get his whole life back in order, everything he's gone through. And these fuckers just get to run amok, yeah.

They can just go out and do their regular thing that they're doing. I'm like, Do we not know what happened? The fuck? Wow now? Luckily, Ryan Herber and Brendan Harris, I think they were the ones that the police were most worried about.

They remained in custody. I think they should have been worried about the entirety of them. Yeah, absolutely. But because all were under 18, their identities were protected in the press, but anyone, even the press who attended the hearings, had been privy to their names.

And even actually had taken photos of them entering and exiting the court, so Press was ready with content when the ban on identifying the attackers was eventually lifted. They just were like, Here you go, and they were like, Boom, this is who did that now. A trial was set for all five boys on March 10th, with a pre-trial hearing scheduled for February 22nd, 2008..

On February 25th, Bay Cup Police held a press conference led by Superintendent Mick Gradewell and Detective Inspector Holden. Where the press and the public were finally provided with more details on the attack and the murder, Holden told reporters This was the most horrendous crime I have seen in 14 years. And he went on to describe the four, Excuse me, the five boys as feral Feral is a perfect way to describe them truly they are.

That really is feral beasts. I'm glad he came up with that word because that really, really is it. It truly is. I can't even actually think of a better word.

Yeah, that's really perfect now. He also went out of his way to explain that neither Rob nor Sophie was in any way responsible for this attack. They had been targeted because of their appearance and for no other reason. Locked up is what he was saying.

Now, finally, both Gradewell and Holden told the press they believed 15 year old Brendan Harris to be the quote unquote primary offender. That's wild. And then they criticized the parents of all five boys for failing to take the matter seriously and taking a flippant attitude as investigators interviewed their children. The parents didn't give a shit. I'm going to stay quiet.

Yeah, that's why when you said something earlier, I was like, Oh, don't even feel bad, because they were pieces of shit, and I'll say it so. Throughout the investigation, he explained, most of the parents had laughed about the charges, attempted to provide false alibis and were generally hostile and belittling of officers in investigating the case. You shouldn't fall far from the fucking tree here.

Fucking ashamed of yourself. And the sad thing is, they're not, they're not. Wow.

Beast I My brain won't even come up with words for them. That's that's truly abhorrent, like that is.

I am, that's a great word for it. I am beyond words for that, laughing about the charges, laughing about them.

You're laughing about a murder charge on a young girl's head. They don't care. Can you imagine not caring about that? No, because I am obviously a figure of speech.

I know you can't, but it's like, just like flabbergasting, No, I can't, and just disgusting, truly disgusting, that's despicable.

Like I said, apples didn't fall far, No. Several weeks later, Gradwell again publicly criticized the parents of the accused, saying The only thing these lads think they have done wrong is to be caught. It was almost as though they were laughing and joking about what they had done. Parents have got to take much more responsibility.

Fuck yeah, because it's like, where the fuck were you when your kid was stomping on someone's face? Well, look at you, you're laughing about it now, right?

So, like it tells everybody everything they need to know, it does now. When the investigators had finished speaking, Sylvia Lancaster also was able to make a statement to the press. And she told reporters about Sophie's life, Sophie's passions and about how her murder had affected her family. She explained that she had spent years working with young offenders herself. Actually, and even despite what had happened to her daughter, she told them I haven't lost my faith.

Wow, that is a strong fucking line. At one point, when Sylvia said she knew Sophie's appearance had made her a target in the past. A reporter asked Did you never ask your daughter to change her appearance so she might not have faced prejudice shown to her that night? And Sylvia said, Why would I ask her to change what she was? Ooh, I just got like a full chill.

Why would you ask your daughter to change? Why not? why would we be asking the person attacked to change and not the attackers? Oh yeah, Sophie should have changed.

It shouldn't be these feral little pricks that need to change. Like, if we're talking about change here, I think I know exactly where we start. How dare somebody even ask her mother that? how dare they? yeah?

Now, by the time the trial began on March 10th, 2008, a few things had actually changed. In the course of their investigation, investigators had discovered, quote forensic evidence of blood from both Rob and Sophie. On the pants of Ryan Herbert, the pants that he was wearing, obviously on the evening of the attack. So that provided a direct and damning connection to the murder as a result. Scared little Herbert there realized he had to change his plea from not guilty to guilty on both counts. How do you like those apples?

Yep. Before accepting the plea, Judge Anthony Russell wanted to make sure that Herbert understood quote The sentence of the court is fixed at life, meaning there wouldn't be any negotiations for a lesser sentence. Good, and Herbert's defense attorney explained he accepts responsibility for the attack on both victims.

Oh, what a big guy. He accepts responsibility when we found the actual physical evidence of it on his goddamn pants, right? Like he accepts responsibility now that there's literally no way to argue against it.

You should have said he's been forced into accepting responsibility, he didn't do that on his own volition, precisely. But at that point, the plea was accepted, and he was remanded back into the custody of the crown months later, after the trial had ended. The press found out that detectives had actually gotten recordings from phone calls that Herbert had made to his mother from Lancaster Farm Young Offenders Institute, where he was being held.

And he admitted to her in those calls that he had actively participated in the attack on Rob and Sophie and the murder. In another recording, where he did not know that he was being recorded, he actually admitted to other things like quote kicking Sophie Lancaster like a football. Oh, no, never let him out, never, never let him out. Now. With him pleading guilty, the four others stood before a judge and with regard to the charge of grievous bodily harm to Rob Maltby. All four now pleaded guilty, leaving only the murder charge unresolved.

Now, the prosecuting attorney, Michael Shorrock, I believe, is how you say it. He concluded that although there was evidence that all five had participated in the attack on Rob, there was no evidence actually directly connecting Daniel Mallett or the Holm brothers for the attack. Slash murder on Sophie.

So because of that, Judge Russell delivered a verdict of not guilty in the cases of Daniel Mallett and the Holm Brothers. Wow, so that left Brendan Harris as the only individual to stand trial for Sophie's murder. Wow.

Because, um, because Ryan had already admitted to it, exactly so. All of their attorneys, the Holm brothers Daniel Mallett and Brendan Harris's, wanted their clients to be out on bail rather than remanded to the custody of the crown.

Who the fuck do you think you are? I'm also like, I'm. I'm thinking, if I'm their defense attorney, I'd like them to remain in jail or being held. Because I don't know what the fuck they're going to do out there to make this case even more difficult. That's the thing like, you trust them out there, right?

You trust your job that much like, Damn, all right, wild.

But luckily, the judge was like, Ha ha ha, I am unmoved by that. And they were all taken into custody until they appeared for sentencing. Now, with the new pleas out of the way and the grievous bodily harm charges settled, the trial of Brendan Harris got underway March 12th, 2008. In his opening statements, prosecutor Shorrock told the jury how Rob and Sophie had been targeted for their appearance. By this group of teenagers, who quote acting like a pack of wild animals, savagely and mercilessly beat the couple while quote encouraging each other and laughing, That's the thing.

They're all involved in this, whether they were physically involved. They were encouraging someone to stomp on someone's head and laughing, That's a problem. That's it makes you want to throw up.

It does now, through witness after witness. There were actually nearly 50 in total, the jury learned the sequence of events. That started with Rob being slapped in the face. And then that escalated quickly to the vicious beating of both he and Sophie, which again obviously resulted in Sophie's murder. One witness testified Herbert was bending over Rob and punching him in the face.

All five were having a go, Sophie was trying to push them off. Others testified to the laughter, the mocking comments being directed at Sophie as she was trying to protect an unconscious Rob from any more blows. Before they began directing their violence at her, which started with Brendan Harris delivering a kick to her head as she knelt beside Rob, cradling his broken head in her lap. She was just tending to her love and then he kicked her in the head. And what kills me is that that last thing that Sophie witnessed in her life was this.

Yeah, like that's was like the love of her life being. It's brutal, it's like, that's, it's really unthinkable. There are not words for this case.

This is really unthinkable, it really is. First responders also testified that when they first arrived, arrived. Excuse me, Sophie's injuries were so bad that, like I said earlier, they quote, could not distinguish Miss Lancaster's sex. Wow. Throughout the trial, the jury heard the recordings of the calls made to 999 by witnesses at the scene.

And that provided insight to the jury on just how chaotic and absolutely terrifying that scene was for everyone involved. At one point, jurors listened to a call that was made while the attack was still underway and a hysterical girl could be heard screaming for help amid the chaos. And while she was testifying on the stand after the recording was played, she became so emotional on the stand. This poor girl that the judge actually eventually determined that she was in no fit state to continue. Wow.

And had to adjourn the court for the day. Wow, it was that emotional. And it actually was not the first time or the last time that members of the court or the jury had to take a break after the emotional testimony. I'm surprised they were ever able to get through this trial.

This is just unbelievably senseless, and it's so brutal. It's senseless and so brutal exactly. And it's just there's something about someone using what they've got, their hands and their feet, yeah.

To do this much damage, it is that close in proximity to someone literally minding their business, that is so brutal. And just like what a human can do to another human with their own, with all of the same human parts that we all have.

You can just kick someone in the head and stomp on them. When Brendan Harris finally took the stand, he remained as defiant as ever, Oh, fuck you, claiming he played no part in the attack.

He said all the witnesses were lying or mistaken. Of course they are you idiot, and you know, they must've just figured out a way to fake those phone calls. Yeah, absolutely. His claims were clearly bullshit.

There was plenty of witness testimony and evidence that actually connected him to the crime, and the prosecutor Shorrock told him during cross-examination. You recall very well what you did that night and you do not want anyone to know about it. You were there until the very end, you kicked Sophie, you and Herbert caused those horrible injuries to her.

Now, it was during this cross-examination that the jury learned. This was actually not the first incident of violence that Brendan Harris had committed in the park. Four months, four months before Rob and Sophie were attacked. Ryan Harris and Brendan Herbert Oh, excuse me, I just flipped their last name, sorry.

Attacked another boy in Stubby Lee Park, stomping on his head and kicking him before his own mother dragged him away and reported the assault to police.

Wow, four months earlier, and I'm sorry. Kicking him and stomping him in the head. Does that sound familiar? Now? Are you ready?

This is outraging. They were given community service for this assault. That's failure, failure, that's pure failure.

Failure closing arguments were given on March 27th, and the jury retired to deliberate before sending them away. Judge Russell instructed the jury on their task and said, If you are sure that the defendant took part in the attack on Sophie Lancaster and he did intend to kill her or cause serious injury, then he is guilty of murder. Although he was drunk at the time, provided you are sure he actually formed the intention to kill or cause really serious injuries, then he is guilty of murder now. After deliberating for a little less than three hours, the jury returned a guilty verdict.

Thank God, can you imagine? Oh no, now. Obviously there was a wave of relief throughout the courtroom. People were like, erupting and a loud yes from Sylvia Lancaster.

Now, all five boys were returned to court on April 28th, 2008, where they were sentenced for their respective crimes. For the charge of causing grievous bodily harm to Rob and Sophie, Daniel Mallett was sentenced to four years and four months. I'm sorry, what? four years and four months, because it was grievous, bodily harm, not murder for them.

Joseph and Danny Holm were sentenced to serve a minimum of five years and 10 months.

Now, luckily, Ryan Herbert and Brendan Harris were sentenced to double life sentences for the murder of Sophie and causing grievous bodily harm. Brendan was actually required to serve a minimum of 18 years, while Ryan was sentenced to a minimum of 16 years and three months. Because he got the lesser sentence there, because he pleaded guilty. Wow. And for the attack on Rob, Harris and Herbert were sentenced to five years and 10 months, which was to be served concurrent with the life sentences. Wow.

Now, before passing the sentence, Judge Russell addressed the boys, saying This was a terrible case, which has shocked and outraged all who have heard about it. At least wild animals, when they hunt in packs, have a legitimate reason for doing so. That's what I was thinking, too. I was like, this isn't even animalistic because they usually don't attack unprovoked, and they don't attack their own.

Yeah, yeah, he said. You have none, and your behavior on that night degrades humanity itself. Wow, it's like, true.

I'm going out for that judge, I like that now. On October 7th, 2008, all five had the fucking nerve to appeal their sentences to the Court of Appeal in London, who delivered the response two weeks later. In the case of Brendan, the court felt that Judge Russell hadn't given Quote enough allowance for his plea of guilty. Excuse me.

And as a result, they further reduced his sentence to 15 years and six months. The other four appeals were rejected, luckily. But in their report, the justices reprimanded all five for their participation in what they described as chilling, random and mindless brutality. And they praised Sophie Lancaster for her remarkable courage demonstrated in her attempt to help her. Or, excuse me, to protect her boyfriend, that's the thing, because she could have run away.

Of course, and she didn't, and seriously, that's that really is, and that tells you exactly who she was now. In the year since his sentence was passed, Brendan Harris has appealed his sentence multiple times.

His appeals, filed in August 2016 and January 2020, were rejected on grounds that he had not made significant progress and he was not deserving of consideration. Good the fact that after all that time in jail, you still haven't made progress. We know what he's doing in jail, in prison, excuse me.

And in February of 2020, Ryan Herbert's appeal was actually considered by a high Court judge, who found that he had made exceptional progress while in jail. Including efforts to further his education through the University of Cambridge, where he was taking law courses. Oh, I'm sorry, he's taking law courses to find a loophole in all of this, and also he's taking law courses.

What Sophie got to do while Sophie's gone? And while Rob has probably the most tragic case of PTSD, one could imagine, Okay, cool. In March of 2022, the Parole Board determined that Ryan Herbert's progress made him a good candidate for parole and granted him conditional release.

Sylvia Lancaster was obviously fucking outraged by this decision and told reporters once again, We have a justice system that fails to deliver justice truly. So they all just suck. That is, I can't. Who made that fucking decision now? Sylvia Lancaster continued, speaking out against hate crimes and promoting the message of tolerance.

Through that organization, Sophie, and eventually, through that work, she was appointed to the Order of the British Empire. WOW, which is a prestigious award given to citizens promoting social good in the UK. Badass.

Now, sadly, on April 12th, 2022, actually, Sylvia passed away from a rare complication that she suffered after a surgery. Her death came as a complete shock to the community that she supported. Sylvia and Sophie left a legacy of tolerance and unity that spread around the world through musician, artists, anybody who embraced this cause. Now, in general, Rob Maltby avoided the press. And I 100 understand that he just focuses his attention on the long and hard process of physical and emotional recovery.

Now, not surprisingly, the trauma he experienced during and after the attack derailed a lot of his plans for the future. It left him paranoid, afraid to venture much further than his family's home. But in 2017, he did finish his illustration degree, which like, Fuck yeah, Rob. And in an interview given to The Guardian, he said that he'd finally begun a new relationship with a young woman that he met online. And he was planning to spend time with her in the U.S. But he also told The Guardian he had always been frustrated with the narrative that Sophie was killed because she was goth.

He told a reporter No, she wasn't, she was killed because some arseholes killed her. Why can't we ask what it is about them that made them want to murder someone, not what it is about someone that made them be murdered? And I think that is the perfect place to end this case.

On Rob's fucking phenomenal point of stop asking me why she was killed, for what she looked like. And ask why they did it, and ask why they fucking did it. Yeah, that's fucked up.

This is one of the most tragic cases I've ever read in my life. That was very painful. I want to, like, do something in Sophie's name, like, seriously? But yeah, wow.

Hopefully we can do something haunted next week, cause that was really brutal, cause that was brutal. Yeah, and we love you guys.

Take care of yourselves. Yeah, be nice to each other, do something in Sophie's name this week, you know, I just think that'd be awesome.

Don't, don't be mean to people, don't make fun of people. Yeah, just everyone is dealing with their own shit, exactly.

So deal with yours, yeah, and keep listening. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it. Weird. I am not even telling you not how weird to keep it, because you already know.

You already know.

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