JRE MMA Show #138 with Cory Sandhagen

Mr. Sandhagen, How are you? I'm good, How are you doing? You're on top of the world right now, dude.

Thank you, really great fight. You're like on top of it right now, man. It's really exciting to watch.

And this, like higher, being, better version, like best, no thinker, just actor was running the show. Like, it's almost like I was watching the thing happen while I was in the fight. And there would be bits of me hopping in and being like, Hey, throw this combination, hey, take a little bit more of a risk, hey, do this.

And then that would get completely just watched. And this whoever was fighting that night that didn't even feel like me was the person that was fighting. It was fucking cool, man, wow, it was cool, dude.

It was like, you know, like a psychedelic experience, feeling type of thing. it was cool.

And then kind of during the Yawn fight and then definitely I tried to be that guy against Song. And it was like too much of a distracting feeling. Where now my mindset's going into the last fight because it was such like a distracting feeling. And just feeling like I have to get myself to a point of anger or up-ness. Before a fight where it just became distracting, where it was helpful, before it became distracting, in that song fight, I bailed on that.

And I just tried to be as mindful and as present as I possibly could. For like. And I know that those are like, kind of corny words now, but there is some real substance to them when they're like, really done well. And I would say, maybe about six weeks before the fight. I had this moment where I was sitting on the couch because I put a lot of pressure on myself and I want to be a world champ. Real bad where I was, to the point where I wasn't enjoying any part of the camp, any part of the experience of fighting or anything. And I was sitting on the couch and I just like, I think I was crying a little bit. And I was like, I can't fucking do this for the next five years of my life, you know, like, I can't do this for the rest of my career.

And I was like, Well, what's got to change? And I was like, I got to lose. I got to take this pressure off of me and I got to start enjoying every day a lot more than I am right now. And from that, like six weeks before the fight, I started doing that, and I really think that that carried into the fight. And it made me be a lot less tense, a lot less tight, and it made me be able to fight with. Just like a completely free way of being.

Am I doing, am I putting the right amount of pressure on me? That's totally a part of the journey, but I'm kind of more in the part of the journey. Where I've matured a lot as a fighter, I've matured a lot as a person.

I'm getting married this year, like I'm a little bit older. We're looking at kids, probably in the next couple of years. And so I had to start thinking, like, what's sustainable, like, what's like a sustainable way to continue doing what I love, but also becoming like a more mature adult.

And that's just part of the journey that I'm in right now. And I don't think that anything was wrong with the way that I was doing before. But it just is like a moving target all the time.

And so going through that had its purpose. Man. Like, I had to figure out what it was like for me to be like a vicious killer, you know? Because in society, that's like, not cool, you know? So like, almost like the shadow self or whatever is like the subconscious term for it. I had to, like, experience that.

I experienced it, I figured out that it was no longer serving me, it was being distracting. So what do I need to do now? Now? It's like, Okay, you figured that part out.

You can be that guy whenever you want to be that guy. But now we're being present, now we're enjoying it and you don't really need to be that guy. Until you walk into the cage, and even when you do walk into the cage, you don't need to be this like, really dramatic, super emphasized, like vicious guy.

Like, be that guy. But you don't have to overdo it, and when you're learning something, I almost feel like you have to completely overdo it in order to learn. Like, where that cutoff is like, even in technique. Like, if you could do an armbar and win every single time with an armbar, why would you ever stop doing armbars? It'd be stupid. So, like, you figure out how to, like, do something way, overdo it, figure out where the cutoff is and be like, Okay, I can't do it.

In like those situations, you pull back, you figure out what situations you need to do it in, and then you move forward.

My headphones cut out. hold on, check, check, check, check, check, check. something happened over here. Jamie. I don't know what's going on, but I lost the headphones.

We'll be right back, folks. Sorry about that. No, that's okay. So so where were we at? So what was it about the other way?

You were approaching it where, you know, last time you were here. You had just embraced this idea that you went in there with the intention to fuck people up. What was distracting about that?

And then for 20 minutes trying to sustain that guy and that's like a long time to be that up, you know? So even in the in this fight, because there's no preparing for that last hour before you go walk. Like, I don't care what type of guy you are, how zen you can be, or how confident you are. That that last hour before a fight like, your mind's going to fuck with you a lot.

And it's going to go to you thinking that you're the God of the universe, to you thinking that. Like, you're about to go get slaughtered. And, uh, in the back. Before, if I started to feel like I was, you know, having those like impulsive thoughts of like, fear, or you're about to go get slaughtered. I try to just cover that shit up real quick by getting, like, real pissed, um, and that's like a lot of energy to do so.

Before the Cheeto fight, I was super proud of the way that I was able to handle those feelings. Because those feelings are like, real as hell. When you're in the back and....

And so I just took it. Okay, right now, I'm getting warmed up, okay, they said. 10 more minutes till we walk, okay.

I'm having the sense of fear, still, that's okay, I'm still in the back. And then step by, step, by step.

Okay, I'm, I'm, I'm walking out now. cool, okay, looking across from him.

Okay, touch gloves. Now we're fighting. It's literally it sounds super fucking simple, but it's just step by step by step, man, just like, Okay, I'm having that sense.

I'll just watch that and not really ignore. I mean, you acknowledge it, but you don't. I didn't. I don't try to cover it up, or I don't try to, like, be someone else. I just kind of watch it as if it was just someone else. It happened into someone else and then just move on.

Was the overwhelming? Like the amount of information you were throwing at him? You were constantly changing levels, constantly threatening takedowns, constantly switching stances, and everything was. You know, there's fighters kind of, sometimes they'll fall into a pattern, and you can kind of predict that pattern. There was no pattern with you. It was all over the place and it was so overwhelming.

When I was watching, I was like, Jesus Christ, like, this is so high level and I don't, I mean for like, a casual. I don't know if they're seeing that. But for someone who watches a lot of fights and has been around martial arts, you know, my whole life, when I was watching, I was like, this is about as high level as it gets, thank you. Like you were mixing shit up so well, like the way you were choosing your attacks. Whether it was the low kick or whether it was punches and the switch stance to punches, the shot, it was amazing, man.

It was really fucking good, it was really fun to watch. Because it wasn't just that you were doing that, but you were doing that for five fucking rounds. Like, you never varied, you never slowed down.

There was never like breathers, it was just a full on assault of all of his reactions and all of his, you know, ability to read you. It was like attack, bang, hit there, okay, trying to settle.

Boom, this coming in and now there's a shot. It was like there was no, there was no breaks.

I think that that's always going to be. One of my stronger points is that I can make decisions a lot faster than other people. I honestly think that that's what makes good people from great people, because good people can do. They can make the right decisions and continue to make them, continue to make them, continue to make them. But at some point, the person that's better at doing those things is going to surpass that person eventually. It might not happen early.

You know, like it could take some time, and against some of the best guys in the world, it's going to take some time. But eventually, your processing speed will outpower theirs, you know? And I think that I do that really, really well, I think that my training has a lot to do with that, too.

The first week I just knock the rust off, you know, and then I do two seven-weeks or two seven-round weeks. So we spar Tuesday, Fridays. I do seven rounds those days and then the next two weeks I do eight rounds both of those days.

And then I'll do like six, and then the rest of them five, because I want to get used to five. But in those seven-round weeks and those eight-round weeks, those are hard as fuck. Man. Like, I get, like, I try to get so tired where I'm, just like, I can't. I don't feel like I can make decisions anymore. And I really think that having the concentration to focus for those 40 minutes makes it way easier for me to focus in the 25 minutes. You know, like, it's, you know, I don't really know if that's science or not.

But I definitely think that if I can stay focused for 40 minutes, 25 minutes will feel like nothing, so I really push myself there.

Christian Allen has always been my coach and he's an interesting guy. Like a lot of his philosophies are really traditional martial arts philosophy, like he turned me on to a lot of, really.

Like people like Bruce Lee, of course, like Krishnamurti, like, just like free thinkers. So he always instilled in me this and tried to empower this ability inside me to think for myself. Because I think that a lot of people don't really do that in the sport, to be honest with you. I think that a lot of them get their hand held by their coaches. Which is totally one way to do it. And honestly, a lot of people do need that.

But I was never taught to be that way. I was taught to be the quarterback of my own game. Not like someone that takes orders. He instilled that in me big time. So I kind of tweak things and handle a lot of the way that I do things in camp by myself. I, of course, have people around me that I know, love me a lot and care about me enough to tell me what they think I should do.

And I will listen to them if I think that they're right. But a lot of it is like me, just kind of being like a lone wolf in life. And in martial arts a little bit, and me just figuring stuff out myself.

But even maybe more important, do it yourself.

And I think it's the way to do it, man, I really do. When I think about other sports and how they compare, I don't think like at the very highest level. When I watch interviews of Kobe Bryant or Michael Jordan, or Tom Brady, and all of those guys. Those guys are interacting with their coaches much differently than a lot of other players, and coaches will interact with each other. Where it's not, the coach isn't telling the player what to do.

The coach and the player are interacting. I think when you get to a certain level, me and my coaches, sometimes we'll get into it. I'll be like, Hey, man, I don't think that's a reliable way to go about doing things. I use the word reliable a lot when I'm coaching people because you don't want tricks, tricks are okay.

You want things that are reliable.

That's what I shoot for when I'm trying to learn techniques and learn different things. Is this reliable, or is this a tricky thing that will sometimes work? I always shoot for reliable. I'll get into it with my coaches sometimes, like, Hey, Banks, I don't know if that's that reliable.

I think, honestly, it happens a lot more in striking. I think that because people really don't understand the inner workings of how striking works, people want to use tricks. Tricks will work a lot until you get someone that catches on to your shit, let's say, for example, in striking. Any combination, really?

It's not a trick, but it's a set thing where things have to go really right in order for it to work 100 of the time.

I don't really think that that's the approach that you should take in striking. I think that the approach to striking should be reliable things. It should address space, it should address position, it should address angles.

Those are the three areas of striking and the inner workings of striking that don't really get talked about. Because a lot of it is taught in a very tricky way, because tricks are very digestible for people where the inner workings of things are very conceptual and hard to understand.

I hear people talk about rhythm all the time. rhythm is just closing space, going away from space, closing space, going away from space. Space is key. Because striking happens with your eyes. striking is like, we're playing this game, like, Hey, hit my hand and I'm moving it around. That's why switching stances works so well, and we can get into that in a little bit.

But space is your reaction time, because striking happens with your eyes instead of grappling. Like, if someone's leaning into me, I have the proprioception to feel they're leaning into me, let me move like this. It doesn't happen with your eyes in striking, it happens with your eyes. I see your punches coming, I know to block.

So the more space I have, and the better I can maintain and control space, or manipulate space by closing it quickly or using it at the same time. You close, I close where I can be twice as fast, the more success I'm going to have.

I just don't think that people are understanding space in a way where it's like it is your reaction time. So if you get closer to, like, if you're standing over there and I'm standing here. It's not scary if you throw a punch at me because I have plenty of time to react to that punch. Where if me and you are standing right next to each other, that's super scary, no matter who you are.

So space is reaction time, and I really don't think that a lot of people see space like that. They see space. Like, Oh, yeah, you're at the end of my jab, that's when I can hit you. Everything is about like, Can I hit you? This and that where the defensive piece of striking isn't really harped on as much, because again, it's not as digestible. And then there's, of course, like position, like my position, and then your position, my position, according to your position.

So, like, lefty, righty, righty, lefty, lefty, lefty, righty, righty and all of that is important. Because if you're in a different stance than I am, the targets change, like, what you throw is different than. Like, the attacks that you'll have are very different than the ones that we would have if we were in the same stance, if we were in the opposite stance. I don't think that people necessarily pick up on those things, too. I don't think people super understand position as like my guard, like, where am I open if I stand like this? and where am I open if I stand like this?

The advantages like being a little bit outside your shoulders on each side so that I can take angles a little bit easier. If I'm standing over here, I know you're going to correct yourself here, so I'm going to step here, you're going to correct. I'm going to step here. And then eventually I'll be able to build off of attacks. But that, to me, is what striking is.

Striking is a positional battle, and it's a battle for space, and it's not like combinations, and it's not set things.

But there's something about that. If you're accustomed to standing Southpaw, or you're accustomed to standing Orthodox, and you're accustomed to facing fighters that are Southpaw or Orthodox. You get used to attacks coming from different places. But when you're doing it, you're mixing shit up so much that you can see this overwhelming thing that's happening to the opponent. You could see like one of the things, Chido said. He couldn't get started, but the reason why he couldn't get started? In my opinion, he's a great fighter.

But it was you, it was because you were constantly feeding him with reads and information, and it was never ending. So there was no break where he gets to find his openings, no break where he gets to initiate. It was just overwhelming.

Like, your right kick is going to land on the outside of my leg. If I switch lefty, it's going to kick to the inside of my leg. I know that, you know this, but if I'm constantly switching those targets all the time, it makes for a hell of a time for you. I started switching really, really early.

I used to really like watching Nenito Diner The Boxer, and he kind of switches a lot, like a lot of his steps are switches. I used to love watching Nenito Diner, I thought he was super creative.

Like, switching stances now at this point, I think in martial arts is almost like a non-negotiable. You have to be able to do it. But it just changes the target, it changes my weapons so much. Where if you can't keep up, it's just going to fry your brain.

And I felt that with Chido, I felt like anytime he started to understand my movements. I would just change, or I would start level changing, or I would start doing something different. So that he couldn't get an opportunity to be like, that's what I need to do, because then I would just change it and then he'd have to figure out something else.

And he didn't have answers to some of them, and you had answers to his problems. And that's a mental game and that's, to me, what's so fascinating about fighting, that people don't understand from the outside. That are just casual fans. This is a complex interaction between two people that move very fast.

And any error that you make one way or another, running into a right hand, running into a knee, running into this. And you're really good at setting people up for that. Like, the Frankie Fight's a great example of that. That, to me, is what's exciting about MMA. And so when I see a guy like you that I clearly see, like, Oh, this motherfucker's on another level, like you hit something.

Like, whatever it is like, were you talking about this mindset change, or it's just this stacking upon skills and layers and experience? Till you get to this championship form, there's a really exciting time when a fighter comes into that championship form, and that's what I saw in that fight.

I took a lot of pressure off my shoulders. I'm like a phenomenal learner, to be honest. Like, if I do toot my own horn, I think that that's something that I'm really good at.

In first grade, they used to take me to another room to learn how to read. I used to have to ask my mom, why do I read different books than the other kids?

So I'm not a smart guy, I never did good in school.

But I'm thoughtful, you could use the word obsessed, too. But I think I'm incredibly thoughtful about the way that I'm going about doing things. Like in life, in fighting, I try to be super, super intentional. I make notes every Monday and Saturday.

I make notes on Monday. I make notes of the things that I'm working on, like a to-do list, like sometimes how I'm doing and all of that stuff. But I'm super organized in the way that I'm trying to learn and the things that I'm trying to progress in. Whether they're technical things, mental things or whatever. And then I recap all of those things on Saturday, made sure that I did them.

And then I write down what worked, what didn't work, what I need to continue to drill, what I should pull back on. Because I don't think it's really worth the time because there are so many techniques and some things just aren't worth the time at certain points. So I'm super thoughtful, I'm super organized, and I think that that's probably one thing that separates me is because everyone wants it kind of the same. Everyone's a really good athlete.

Everyone works really hard physically.

But there's got to be some X factors. It has to be everything if you really want to be a world champ, like I say that, I want to be.

That's like me being the quarterback. I take full responsibility for everything that I do in life. If I'm not getting takedowns, it's not my wrestling coach's fault, it's my own fault. Because I know I'm being taught correct things. I've surrounded myself with good people that are teaching me the right things, so I don't ever worry about not being taught the right things.

If I don't get good at something, I almost feel pathetic because I'm like, man, this guy's.

Like with the wrestling, if Banks has to tell me something. Week by week, by week, I start to feel pathetic. I'm like, why am I not getting better at this? I take responsibility for every single thing. That way, there's no one for me to blame except for myself if I lose.

That's another thing that I don't know, that a lot of people are doing too. That also causes me to get into it with some people sometimes too, which is fine. Also because they know I love them and I know that they love me. It's not really a big deal when we do get into it. I write down week by week what I'm doing, what my Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday looks like. When I'm doing my visualizations, I incorporate a decent amount of self-hypnosis-type things that I like doing, too.

I write down when I'm doing that, I write down when I'm flying, training partners in, when I'm going out to Virginia to train with Ryan.

It's pretty much to the T written out.

I do a decent amount of those, which sounds a little bit funky and a little bit weird. But I've had some super intense experiences. By just literally laying there, put my headphones in and listening to this dude talk on YouTube.

I feel like when you're at your level. And one of the things that's exciting about what's going on right now in the band and weight division is that there's so much talent. It might be the most talent-stacked division in the UFC. It's hard to say because 55 is great, 45 is great, there's a lot of amazing divisions, but for my money, I think 35 might be the motherfucker because there's just so many guys.

There's Murab, there's Piotr, there's Marlon, there's You, there's Al Jermaine, there's.

So who goes in there now? And there's all these guys coming up too that are super high level. Chris Gutierrez There's some fucking killers and everyone recognizes that the level is so high in that division. And they see a fight like your fight with Marlon or Murab's fight with Piotr, and it's like, Jesus Christ, man.

If you want to compete in that division, you got to have everything right. You have to dot your I's and cross your T's. You got to get that fucking exact amount of reps, you got to do everything, everything.

This is just the most insane pressure cooker that I think any division has ever had. Because I feel like there's like eight world champions competing for the number one spot. Any one of these guys could be a world champion, any one of these guys and in another time period would be a world champion. But because of what's happening in MMA right now, because the skill sets are so high and the talent level is so high that everyone's recognizing that. And you're seeing these fucking insane breakthrough performances like every time from these guys like Murab versus Piotr, like you versus Marlon.

These breakthrough performances are just like where everybody else is like, God damn, got to go back to work because it's just so pressure intensive.

When I reflect on that, it's awesome, and it also is like, it's literally going to bring out. It has to bring out the best in me for the next rest of my career, like it absolutely has to like.

It's not one of those divisions where it's like, I'm going to beat that guy, I'm going to beat that guy. Like, literally all the way up, like past the outside, the top 15. I'm like, man, if you're not on your PS and QS and you're not working your ass off like you were a 21-year-old kid, you're going to be fucked and so like that. I wouldn't have it any other way, man. Like, that's what's going to bring out the best in me.

And I'm like, super, just grateful that I get to be a part of it. While it's actually happening, it's kind of, like, feels surreal that that's the scenario.

And these guys, they all fed off of each other, but it was only a few of them. Like the UFC right now, it's a goddamn carnival. I mean, there's a fucking massive crowd of assassins that are all competing. And you'll see these new bantamweights that come into the UFC and they might have 16 17 fights outside the organization, and then you'll see them in their debut. You're like, Jesus Christ, this guy's world class.

World class already first fight in the UFC. I mean, that to me is so exciting because this sport is the only sport that you could really name that. If you go back to 1993 and you look at it from 2023, you're looking at a massive evolution in the game, massive.

I mean, not even comparable. There's not a single person from 1993 that looks like they're a world champion in 2023. But if you go back to 1993, in boxing, you got a lot of world champions. You got Oscar de la Hoya, Julio Cesar Chavez, you got fucking assassins who can compete in any division or in any era, at any time.

In boxing, you don't have that, in the UFC. You have this complete new kind of thing that's emerging and evolving. And you're seeing these top performers that are just reaching total new heights.

Where I feel like in MMA, we're not at that point yet. We're all in this discovery. Who's going to figure out how to make this thing work the best? That's almost what I feel like the race is right now.

Where the race is like?

Like I said, man, everyone works hard, everyone's pretty athletic, everyone kind of has their little quirks and the ways that they do things or whatever. But who's going to figure out how to be the best system of MMA? Because every other sport, I feel like, has done that?

That's why most soccer games look like all the other soccer games, but in fighting, not all the fights look like the same fights. And I think that that's just because it's in this realm of just full-blown creativity. Which is because we're just trying to figure out who's going to get the best system first. It's pretty fun.

Like, you're doing punches, kicks, takedowns, but unexpected. So you're finding a way to deliver these things inside of these spaces and movements and stance switches. It's fucking wild to see, man, and it's just it's so exciting to witness this growth of this. What I think is the greatest sport that's ever existed, and to watch it blossom and bloom and become what it is now.

But how inspiring is it when you watch a guy like Volk go fight Islam up a weight class? How inspiring is that? Sometimes I wonder if that's just me, but I don't really think it is, man. I think it inspires the world.

I can't, it's two fucking days away, man.

He's older, I think. Did he say he's 38??

37 or 38?

You know, at a certain point in time, you can't do it anymore the same way.

I don't ever have like an interesting story, you know? I'm like, Well, I used to watch Kimbo knock people's eyeballs out in backyards. Remember that video? Dude? Holy shit, that was crazy.

Where it would just be like fight compilations and I would just watch for like 40 minutes. Just like people beat the shit out of each other on the streets, and I thought it was so awesome. That's like, what got me into fighting? That's crazy, I want to fuck some people up like that. That looks cool.

Just kos.

Everything gets tested.

MMA is like, how do I not be scared of getting tired as hell because it's the most tiring shit in the world? Especially when you're coming up and like, you're nervous in fights and you don't really know what you're doing, your technique isn't as good. I can't think of another sport where they really, where you have to go in and be. Like, Man, if I get tired, I'm going to get my ass kicked, like, literally get my ass kicked. That's like another thing that makes MMA cool.

And now I don't have the gas tank and this guy's coming after me.

I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, do you know how hard it is to get someone to the ground? And if that person is having a hard time on the bottom, they should probably get up, figure out how to get up. But for you to just the booze of the casuals and you're like, come on, stand them up, stand them up, and you just interfere in a fight. It drives me nuts.

Now you have to eat up the gas that you were trying to conserve, and now you're moving. It's unnatural, it's like you. There was an unnatural intervention in the exchange and that was a referee.

Like, there's so much ambiguity happening that, unfortunately, because it'll mess up some other things. I almost feel like you have to add in rules where like, okay? So I get stood up if I can make it so that this guy can't punch me for 30 seconds or whatever amount of time it is or something. But I almost feel like those types of problems only will get solved by rules, they won't get solved by this. Like ambiguity. Where, like, the ref can kind of make whatever decision, and each ref is different and each crowd is different and they're just making a bunch of decisions. So I think that someone not me should sit down. And really think about, you know, making it really clear and really straightforward about, like, the rules, so that that kind of stuff doesn't happen anymore.

I think that's ridiculous, that should never take place.

A loser like, scratched my head, like.

So whoever the fuck that judge is, you're not doing that anymore. Like, you could ruin careers, you could take away win bonuses, you know?

They need a universal commission. Yes, like, I really think that that should, because I almost wonder, like, why the UFC hasn't done it yet?

Because if I was the UFC, it would be in my best interest to make sure that everyone's on the same page. So that someone doesn't like, mess something up because that fight very well. If one other person got it wrong, just one other person, I could have lost. And then, like, that would have changed a lot of stuff, man, because it just would have, you know?

Like, people care about wins and losses, I almost feel like there, you know? Someone should look into making a universal commission so that the rules are laid out clear. We have ten judges that we use at this time.

The judges are completely 100 on the same page about what's winning, what's not winning. That way, all of the fighters know that. Because right now, it's just commissions from different states just deciding on whatever rules they want to do, and I really think that, like, step one is universal commission.

You have just punches, you have a bunch of different ways to apply those punches, but you have a left hand and a right hand, that's it. There's so many more things going on in MMA, it's exponential.

There's takedowns, there's submissions, there's ground control, there's being able to dictate the pace. There's so much that happens in MMA.

That doesn't happen in boxing because of all the different skill sets and the different weapons and how they get applied. And what's more valuable than the other thing. I think it should be a very comprehensive system. And I think there should be way more than three judges. I think there's a real good argument to have something like ten judges and experts. I mean, if you can get, I don't know.

For us, a hobby would do it. But that level of expert, the guys like Saif Saud, these fucking world-class coaches and trainers, have guys like that. Judge fights. You'll get a real solid understanding. And if you have ten of those 99.9 of the time, you're going to get the right winner. But if you have three, no disrespect. But some of these people just shouldn't be judging. if someone judged Marlon winning over you, they should not be judging an MMA fight. Because either they're not paying attention, maybe they're on drugs. But they definitely didn't see what I saw. So it doesn't make any sense to me. Even with the ten-point-must system, which is a fucked-up system, but if we had a system that tallied?

All the different takedown attempts, all of the different strikes, and it was a point system. So instead of ten-nine, you're dealing with 162 versus 120, the next round, 195 versus 170. And you look at it in that way, where you could tally it up at the end and look at it. I also think there's something that Pride had that we really should take into consideration. That you judge the fight as a whole, and that the last parts of the fight are probably the most important parts. When you saw Volkanovski on top of Islam at the end of the fight, pounding on him, that is fucking gigantic.

He won that fight.

Like, why not make takedowns points like how they do in wrestling, and then why not make it almost the same as collegiate wrestling? Where if you get up, that's a point, too.

So what is significant strikes? Maybe significant kicks versus significant punches? Maybe some kicks are worth more, like a head kick is worth more, a calf kick. When you see damage, when you see someone limp, that's worth more, like, how many points is that worth?

But even then, like.

I mean, you can't ever, really tell how hard someone's hitting, ever, even a guy like Perea. I was watching some of his highlights and stuff earlier this week. The way he punches people, it doesn't like they come from here.

And they don't like.

They don't like, look like this, but when he hits someone bro their head, snaps back like, it's definitely so. You can never really tell, I guess how hard....

Those types of things you can't.

It would be super hard to like, judge from a subjective point, but I definitely agree with you that there needs to be like a clear set. Like this is worth more than this, this is worth more than this. Like, if I get a takedown, but I've been beating you up for a minute and you get a takedown on me, actually....

Like, what's the balance there? So that I don't have to fucking guess? While I'm in the middle of, like, trying to, like, beat this guy up, yeah.

That seems.

It's just such a different sport than boxing. 10-9 makes sense. in boxing 10-8 he got a knockdown, makes sense.

It does not make sense in MMA because like, you'll see guys get knocked down and win the round. Yeah, you know, it's like, Well, how hurt was he on that knockdown? And what should that count for? You know, we don't count knockdowns in the same way that boxing counts knockdowns where you....

Like, if you're watching like Caleb Plant and Benavidez, if Benavidez knocks Caleb Plant down, you know, that's a 10-8 round, everybody knows. Oh, he's got a 10-8 round, he won that round. That is not the case in MMA. Where there's a clear-cut thing that you could point to and say, you know, there's so many fights that are so goddamn close.

Like Sugar Sean and Piotr Jan. Perfect example. Like Jesus Christ, that was a close fight.

I'm like, Oh, wow, he won, Hmm, but I was eating. I was backstage at a green room after a comedy show, hanging out with friends. But watching it alone, I was like, Okay, that is a complex fight where it's close, but I think they got it right.

No one's making this 10-9 thing. We just adopted it because when we wanted to be sanctioned in the initial part of it, you had to get through the athletic commission, Nevada State Athletic Commission being the best and all these other ones being secondary. But they had a system that was already in place, so we took that system from boxing and we applied it to MMA.

Yeah, yeah, that was crazy, I know.

So that guy was judging or reffing a fight of my guys along. Maybe like four years ago. My guy was in a my guy was in a rear naked choke, but it wasn't sunken in. His angle was right, so it was like, you know, it wasn't in. We're yelling at the guy like, Hey, don't stop it, don't stop it, don't stop it.

The guy stops it and then, you know, I'm like, Hey man, you really screwed that one up. And maybe I didn't say it that nice. But that same reff was the judge that scored it for Chito. Oh so, I don't think he liked me that much. Maybe that's all speculation, of course, but....

Yeah, and then you look at like, 99 think Corey won.

Okay, that's not smart. It's not like judges are so fucking expensive that we can't afford five of them or six of them, yeah.

Like, Glory has five.

Oh yes, dude, that fight has just like disappeared in history, but that was one of the most awesome, epic fights that's ever happened in history.

I mean, they just fucking went to war.

They're essentially they feel like MMA gloves, except without the gloves, I think eight's.

That seems like the right number specifically for these guys, but there's a lot of these guys out there in the world like Cedric Doumbé just got signed for UFC.

When you watch Cedric do a bay fight, one of the things he does. He melts people. He just keeps that. He's got crazy power, super intelligent, very creative inside there, but also just melts people with that pace.

CEdRiC Doombay shoots down reports of UFC Deal Oh no. The rumors of Cedric Doombay signed to the UFC cropped up after the fighter shared a cryptic post on social media. Cuz I know he was about to be signed at one point. So what the fuck hasn't happened yet officially? Is all? So? You got a call from Dana White and he sent a picture of it. Yeah, here's his tweet about it.

He's okay, I don't know. You want to see me at the UFC? I really want to make you love. But the choice offered me is really not easy, and at 30, it will be the last choice of my life. What can I spell choice?

That's right, that's French, is he spelling it in French? That's what it is, Chua, this is my chua.

Well, fuck man. I hope they figure that out. Because when you get guys like Pejeta or get guys like Cedric Doombay, you get to see elite striking. Yeah, and it's also you get to see this problem like with Pejeta. You saw it with the Adesanya fight. Doesn't really know what to do and guys are wrestling him. Mm-hmm, you know, and that was a big problem.

When is? He got his back and he couldn't get out of that? It's like, Wow, he was a very sluggish on the ground. This is like a market difference between the fluidity and the efficiency that he has on his feet. And then went out of sign. You got him on the ground. You can say, like, Whoa, he's gonna have a problem with. Like the Robert Whitaker's Of the World or the Marvin Vittori's big fucks that know how to wrestle.

That's like a really cool thing about, I mean, everything comes more natural to people, of course, like striking came really natural to me, but I had I started everything at the same time. But jitsu is so proprioceptive that it like it wasn't natural for me, like I grew up playing basketball. Like everything is hand-eyed coordination, you know, moving your body.

But like wrestling and grappling, it's like it's almost like when you you learn a different language and you always have that accent. You know what I mean, where it's like, Oh, that that guy didn't grow up doing that, you know? Because I can see, by the way, that he just does like, really small nuance II things. And you can't get rid of it unless you just like clock, hours and hours and hours of it.

Yeah, and a lot of them, like the big, bulky guys, have a really hard time picking up fluid striking. Yeah, definitely, definitely. But if you like, you see a guy like Floyd Mayweather or something. Started when he was a little kid. My god, it's like a part of his point, it's like blinking.

It's just like completely natural movement. Yeah, yeah, I mean.

There's no shortcuts. No, no, especially at the elite level.

Seriously.

Like my nervous system, you know, like when you're like wanting to fight over and over and over again, I feel like your nervous system never really gets to chill. Because it's like, I, it's like thinking a couple months ahead, you know, yeah, but my nervous system feels good right now. Like it's excited to think a couple months ahead now, that's great.

I don't really remember what happened in between the corner because I was so like, Oh shit, like I just got rocked. And for the first time ever in the fourth round, my eyes weren't lower, my legs weren't listening to what my eyes were seeing. So like, I felt like I would see punches coming and my body just wouldn't get the fuck out of the way, which was crazy. So I got my ass whooped in the fourth and then when I went after the fourth before the fifth. I remember taking this like deep breath and being like, Oh, okay, like now I'm back to being myself. But then in the fifth, I kind of had to fight like a little bit compromised because I was like, Well, fuck. If I get hit like that again, that could be like lights out, you know?

But that actually helped me a lot in the song fight, because in the song fight, I got rocked pretty early too. Like, just got, like, really excited, like, wanted to, like, crack him with the right hand. When I saw an opening and that motherfucker song is fast, dude. Like, I had never fought someone that I think was that athletic and that fast in my life. So I threw a right hand and song like, fucking chambered his shoulder and threw like a hard left hook. As I was turning back in. And it rocked me and it didn't faze me anymore because I had been through it in the on fight.

So even though the on fight, I of course was upset because I lost, like, I took that away from it. And I feel like it actually helped me win against Song Big-time. Because after I got rocked, I was like, Yeah, I know that I'm okay, you know? Which is like, when it happens to you the first time, you're like, Oh, fuck me. I'm like, am I gonna get knocked out now? So it, so, it helped but.

Yeah, I was like, more or less happy with how I did. Just got dropped, was compromised. I'll get it, I'll get out of them again.

Yeah, I would imagine for Elite Fighter, when you're fighting a big opponent like Song You Dong, it's a very important fight. That you would want a giant, roaring crowd and you want it to be at the t-mobile. But man, as a fan, to be able to, especially where I get to sit, like at the desk, nice. I'm sitting there right there, watching the cage and I don't have to work, so I'm just listening and watching. And fuck man, what a what a great experience it is watching world-class fights in that environment where you can hear everything. Because there was only like a hundred people there, like, maybe right, it's like only people to get invited.

So you're, you're sitting there and watching world-class fights, almost like it's in a gym.

This is gonna be like a cool fight, you know, like it's gonna be exciting.

Yeah, I mean, he really is.

That might just be something that I think, and there's no science behind that. But I almost feel like I can, like, tell. But when I watch Suhudo fight, I'm like, Oh, man, that guy's locked in, man, like, that guy is locked in.

He's a hell of a competitor. Yeah, I'm an elite competitor, won a gold medal at like 18.

When he gets pushed to a certain level, the wheels fall off, and it's very interesting. It's I don't know if it's psychological, I don't know if it's because he cut so much weight, if it's physical. Like he doesn't have a large gas tank. I don't know what it is. But if I watch that first round, like, Oh my god, this guy's a world beater, yeah, like Jesus Christ, Marlon Marais is fucking Henry Suhudo up, Yeah. And then the second round, Henry made an adjustment, just started putting it on him.

You know who else is to those Sterling bro? Oh yeah, Sterling gets slept on as like the champ, and he's a hell of a competitor. Yeah, he's a hell of a better.

And then he goes and fights again, yeah, and then dominates, that's a big deal, big deal. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I just like I went into that fight all wrong, like, I was just like, way too calm, way too like I got this. Like, just being a douche, you know, like a frickin, you know? Like, if one of my fighters was being like that, I'd be like, Hey man, you were kind of a douche, you know, like?

You thought that you were just gonna walk through that guy, like you didn't get up at all, like, you know? And and part of it wasn't, because I thought that I was like, so much better than how to mean. I think part of it was just probably just like a compensation inside me, that was like, somehow afraid to lose.

So I was just trying to be like, some type of character or whatever, you know. But long story short, I wasn't up enough at all. And Al-Jumein was up here. And I was like, here and here is not where you want to be for a fight. So it just made for like, I remember being in that fight and being like, Is this fucking guy on my back right now, you know? Like, I was like, How the hell did he get there?

Like, this isn't how this is supposed to be going, just like dumb shit, like that, like adolescent competitor type shit. And that's actually after that fight. That's when I was like, I'm getting this shit down now, like, I'm figuring out how to show up every single night.

And like, what do I need to fix so that that shit doesn't happen, you know? And I'm like, constantly, always asking myself those types of questions where I'm just like, look, man, if like, say, you lost tomorrow, would you change anything right now? And like, I asked myself that, like, a lot, a lot, mm-hmm.

Well, yeah, what did I mean? Maybe not, because now that I'm on the winning side of shit, it feels pretty good.

So maybe I don't mean that, but.

As far. But it is, like, the better way to, like, become, yeah, great, you know, it's a better way to become great, like, even, even like. I was wrestling with banks the other day before we came out here and I was like, Hey, like, I'm fucking this up, this up, this up, this up, like, I need to get better at this, this like. These are the next steps. But, you know, so I have really embraced that. I'm glad that I don't actually have to feel like a loser because that shit really, really sucks. But yeah, I, this shit is a marathon man like.

It's a marathon, ultra-marathon, it's an ultra-marathon, and it's gonna last for, hopefully, the next six, seven years of my life.

Yeah, when was it? It was a long time ago, it was when Anderson Silva fought Damian, Maya and Dang, that was a long, fucking time ago. And then, you know, you think about those wars that he had with Grey Maynard. And all the fights that Frankie's been in. And to see his kids in the audience for that fight.

I'm like, Oh God, they're gonna come see this fight dude. And Gutierrez is he's nasty, he's so good, so he is really slick, bro.

Yeah, it's, it's fucking cool.

Yeah, it is weird, hmm.

He's into Legos.

Yeah, and then, uh, yeah, what was? Perea was wearing like some Pokemon Jean jacket or something?

It was like an hour 30 just to the airport. Wow, yeah, yeah, so. But anyways, dude? I shook that guy's hand and it was like shaking, like one of these things, man. It was like his hand was like this big.

I was like, Yeah, he's a genetic freak, yeah.

Like, the danger is so high. He's got that one punch KO power, one strike KO power. And he's so intelligent about how to place it on a chin. He really knows how to hit people there. And then on top of that, he's fucking enormous. Yeah, he's big, you can't believe that guy weighs 185 pounds.

You know, I walk around, I'm probably 200 pounds. How the fuck is that guy 15 pounds lighter than me? He's so much bigger than me, He's huge.

And then you see him get into the cage, he's like 225 when he, when he fights, when he rehydrates, which is just bananas. Seriously, I.

The way that it went a little bit is because when someone that big compared to you is standing there, kind of like this. And just like marching you down with their hands down. It's a little bit intimidating to just be like, Well, do I just like, nail this guy, you know? Because if he slips and I like, don't hit him, he's gonna like, chuck and fuck me up. So I think that that's a little bit of, like a giant advantage for for that dude.

He's just top, just throw it, and it doesn't come out of anywhere. You're not, you're not, you're not seeing any reads.

Is he retains his title? So it's one of those things is like, I, this is not a mismatch. And it's not like, Boy, I feel sorry for Izzy. No, it's like, Whoa, how is this gonna go down?

Yeah, how is this gonna go down? And when you got a guy with a mind like Izzy's where he's so fucking determined, it's so smart and so laser focused. He thinks he's got the solution, he thinks he's got it.

He's gonna figure it out. And then you've got this other thing where when someone becomes a champion, there's a this sort of school thought that they almost immediately become 10 or 20 percent better. Yeah, I.

So is he's the favorite?

I went to Las Vegas and I like lost 20 bucks in like three minutes. I was like, Fuck this, yeah for me.

I know, dude, I don't like games where I can't use my body in some.

Just you can play.

I like things that you do with your body at me too, I'm the same because it's it's also mental, because you have to control the body, they controlling the body is like. One of the most exciting things about competition is that you know that there's a lot of pressure.

No, it's like that little black and gold game. It's like a little net that they put on the their ground, and it's like a park game. You you hit the ball at the net and then it's two, verse two. You never seen that? No, that's our game, dude. That's gonna be my second career.

Really, oh dude, I love spike ball, bro. We play on the team, we'll get a bunch of the guys on Saturdays in the summertime.

It's this game, so it's pretty much like volleyball, yeah, it's like two verse two, but it's a 360-degree game and it's like volleyball. But instead of hitting it over the net, you hit it at the net, huh? But dude, it is so like, look at like, you just dive around, you, like, pass the ball back, you get three hits.

You hit the board, Oh, that's why, dude, this game is so fun. that does look fun, it's super fun.

Yeah, that's my, that's like.

It's a little new, it's like picking up some steam. Oh, there's be a good game for the beach. Look at this, this is crazy.

It's been on ESPN and whatnot, dude, it's so fun, that looks fun, it's super fun.

That's gonna be next thing, I think. So you got to preserve your knees if you want to play that, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of cutting and jumping and moving around. Yeah, yeah, we, yeah, we play.

That's your shit, it is my shit. Wow, I love it. Wow, I don't have any other hobbies like.

I'm thinking about starting fishing, just cuz I like doing shit outside, but we live in Colorado, a lot of great fishing. Yeah, I just don't know if it's gonna be my thing or not. You know, I can stand there, you know? Yeah, I don't know if it's my thing, but spike balls, my chain bow hunting, really.

Fuck, I got my old roommates super into bow hunting, that's dude, I've done a lot of shit.

They scream.

That's what they sound like.

Every year I like to go to Colorado, I'm gonna try to get to Arizona either this year or next year. They got elk in Arizona. Oh yeah, where do they live?

Well, they a lot of them they have in these Apache reservations. Oh cool, and you know, you be by tag from the reservation. Mm-hmm. And they're fucking enormous. It's the most exciting thing. Like Derek Wolfe, who, you know, won the Super Bowl, competed in the NFL.

He said The stacking Tom Brady's great, but it's not as fun as elk hunting. Oh cool, it was just crazy. like shooting an elk with your bow, he said. is more exciting than sacking Tom Brady. And then you gotta go, like, find it right. Well, hopefully you don't have to fight it for now. Generally with a good shot.

It's not going very far. Okay, it's really just about practice, and it's really just about, you know, bow hunting is one of those things where you look at it like, Oh, you just shoot an arrow at the animal. And then once you start doing, you like, Oh, there's so many layers to this thing. And there's also layers to execution and archery, which were requires constant practice. Archery is something that's a completely perishable skill.

So if I take like a few weeks off of Archery and then I go back, I'm like, Oh, it's all. It all feels weird, mm-hmm. But that if I'm practicing every day, I kind of know where. That arrow, yeah, I want to release that arrow, I just watch it. There's something about shooting an 80-yard shot and watching it go right into the center of the target, it's amazing.

It's it's exciting, it's primal, and the meat is sensational, and you know, you have fucking a year's worth of meat from one animal, yeah.

It's all about all the different physical things that have to be in play. Your elbow has to be high, you're pulling with your back muscles, you're relaxing your shoulder, releasing like, let the grip has to be light, but yet you're still stabilizing the bow. So it's just like this dance of muscle and thought, and then with perfect execution when you watch that arrow.

They don't just like send out fleets of people with horses and just mm-hmm, don't be good in so many things. They were horrific they were. they were incredible dude.

Old school war was old school isn't the right term for it, but like, yeah, old school war. old school war was bad war.

It's really a podcast, but it really is more like an audiobook. Dan Carlin's hardcore history.

That's all this.

It's something crazy, Jamie will find it. But when he was alive, they killed somewhere between 50 and 60 million people. Jeez, Yeah, like 10 of the world's population. Yeah, like one out of ten people on Earth was killed by the Mongols.

That's gonna take me a minute to digest. So, 2003 studies sound evidence that Genghis Khan's DNA is present in about 16 million men alive. Today. The Mongolian rulers genetic prowess has stood. That's a nice way of saying he raped a lot of people.

It's genetic prowess has stood as an unparalleled accomplishment, but he isn't the only man whose reproductive activities are still so significant genetic impact centuries later. Yeah, then what's crazy is that that was like one of the superpowers of the world, that everyone was terrified of, the Mongol Empire, and now?

They sent him back to his camp. This guy like glues on knives onto his hands and then just commits the rest of his life to. Just like killing all of these people. That I did that and that to me, that's great. Yeah, this might be him.

Spaniards ordered him to return to I can't say that word. How's that? Well, I say that word, Copacabana, Copacabana, to urge him to surrender.