You Can’t Complain Your Way to a Better Life

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my fabulous colleague and friend, the Jade Warshaw. Getting the polite golf clap from our studio audience there, like you, hit a nice par putt.

You know, Ken, I'm just.

Very nice people out there today.

I'm just going by Jade now. Oh, just Jade? Yeah, just the first name only, like Prince.

Well, I will say this, you have the personality, you got the charisma, and the name. to pull that off. I don't. If I just go by Ken...

Ken.

I get the jokes. Ken. I am Knuff, though.

You are Knuff. You see what I did there? You're a Knuff there, Ken.

The Barbie movie has ruined my name forever. But hey, I digress. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.. And, as I mentioned, we do have some folks joining us in the lobby today, and it's a great way to mention that. if you'd ever love to come watch the show, we come out a couple times an hour, say hi, take pictures, sign books, tell jokes, whatever it is.

Listen, I'm going to start baking some goods. You should. So that they can get out there in the lobby.

That's well, I thought you might bake a good for your co-host and friend.

Not today, Ken.

No sampling of food today.

Not today, but I'm speaking the other part into existence.

But it's blowing up on the Instagram, at Jade Warshaw, and occasionally she put, they put one on my feed, at Ken Coleman on Instagram. But I will not be sampling any food today, unfortunately, but the good news is we will be coaching and answering questions. And John is going to lead us off in Santa Barbara, California. John, how can we help?

Hey guys, thanks for having me.

Sure. What's going on?

Well, I've been looking at paying off my mortgage. But you know, with the high yield savings rates right now and having that money earning interest for me, it just, I keep doing this dance of like, should I just pay it off? Should I put a little bit more of like lump sums towards it? I'm seeing what you guys might think towards this.

How much do you have sitting there? Like, how much is it going to take in order for you to pay off your mortgage if you were to?

I owe $280,000 on the mortgage.

And that's, is that exactly what you have in your high yield, or is it more?

I have $500 in my high yield.

Let's go. Way to go. Can I just ask a couple questions? How long did it take you to save that?

Uh, like probably 12 years.

Wow. That's amazing. And what caused you? I'm just curious. What caused you to save that in a high yield savings account?

I've had it in, in like, like low, I'm sorry, like a low cost index funds and stuff. But it's just over the last couple of years, I've kind of moved some stuff around and I needed, to, you know, to buy the house, I had to like come up with a down payment. So that's kind of where it all ended up right now.

Sure. Okay. So I'm assuming there's no other debt. It's just your home, correct?

Just my home. Correct.

Okay.

Can I ask real quick, Jade, what's your investment portfolio look like?

Well, I have, I have it broken out into two, two different buckets. I have my retirement accounts, which is all like, like low cost index funds.

How much is in there?

My retirement side is 565.

Cool, cool.

Fantastic.

How old are you?

So that's, I'm 48.

Way to go, John.

Tell me about the other bucket. So 565 in retirement, what's the other bucket? How much in there?

The other bucket is my high yield savings slash brokerage bucket that, you know, when I bought the house, my wife bought the house.

Oh, but you already gave us, you already gave us that number, correct? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So you have over a million dollars between the retirement and this high yield savings account. And you owe 280 on the house?

That's correct.

Listen, if I'm you tomorrow, here's the thing. I can tell like you're, this is the numbers guy, though. Like he's very, he, low risk. He likes very methodical. Like you can hear that in the way you're speaking about this.

I was just going to say, and the thing that it's my interest rate on the house right now is like 2.

So that's the dance I'm doing. Listen, 2% is a great interest rate, but 0% is better. So my thought here, if I'm you, even if you didn't have the other money in retirement, by the way, if you just were like, Jade, I've got 500,000 in savings. What should I do? I would tell you today to pay off your home.

Right. And I appreciate you guys. It's a, it's a dance. you do, you know, and I know that I've, I'm in a position to do that. And then it's all, you're always like, well, if I do this, or, but then what if I do that?

Hey, John, so I got to ask you a question. Jade gave you great advice. So we're past the advice stage. Why'd you call? Were you leaning one way or the other?

I think I just wanted to hear some perspective here.

Yeah. But which way were you leaning? Which way are you leaning?

To pay it off.

Here's the good news.

Matches up with my friend's advice. Do it. Stop thinking about it.

And the good news is this, you're not locked in. Like. if you, if you're like Jade, I'm, I'm worried, because if I take your way, I'm locked in. No, you're not. If you, if you pay off your mortgage today, John, and you're like, man, I hate this.

Jade, that was tricky. I like that.

But it is good to know that. And I, I mean, it's funny to say it, but it is good to know that you can always go back when you make these decisions. Like, wait a minute. That wasn't good. This is one of the few financial decisions that you can actually go back and say, and undo it if you don't like it.

Let me throw one more at you, John. How much is your house worth? If you sold it today, give me a rough estimate.

1.

Bro. So here's the deal. If you pay it off and you go, man, I want to get a better, you could sell that sucker and go wherever you want to go. Dude, pay this off. That's what you wanted to do.

I think you should do it. I love conversations like this. When all roads lead to financial freedom. Listen, that's called options.

Sell it. Wow. 1.5 mil.

My guy, he's doing right.

280 left. Go ahead, my friend. That's a great investment. That is absolutely guaranteed. Great call.

Hello there. How are you guys doing today?

Good. What's going on?

All right, so I just have a couple of questions. I work, I have a job, and I make around $87,000 per year, and my wife owns a marketing agency company where she makes around $85,000 per year, so basically, our household income is roughly $170,000 per year, and we do have some debt, so I would like to know how would you guys would tackle this debt, and I also have another question, which is how much money should we save for taxes monthly for the company?

Cool, so let's start with the taxes first, so we can actually think about what you'll have left over for your debt. So both of you are self-employed. I know you said your wife, that was her business, but yours is your business as well, right?

No, she's self-employed, but I work for a company. I'm actually a head of support in my company right now.

Okay, so if I were your wife, my husband and I were also self-employed. My husband still is. He runs our business, and we always set aside 25% to 30% every quarter. It's part of his business sheet, and that's part of it. It just automatically goes out, and 25% to 30%, and that way it's like out of sight, out of mind, you're not touching it, and then, when it's time to file those quarterlies, it's there ready and waiting, and then we have a bookkeeper that helps us with everything else.

Yeah, so basically just 25% to 30% monthly, because it really fluctuates the number of clients that we get. So it's possible that right now it's $7,000 per month, but next month could be around $10,000 to $12,000, depends on the number of clients we get, right? That's right. So you set aside 25% to 30% monthly? Every month.

Because whenever you're receiving that money, set that portion aside, because, like you said, every month is different. So, rather than saying, hey, every month, I just put $700 aside, that's not going to work. It's got to be based off the income that you're actually bringing in. And so that's what I would do.

Is this her first year in business?

This is actually her second year.

Yeah, I would also.

We had someone to do our taxes, yes.

Well, I would also consult that tax person and go, okay, based on last year, where did we go? Did we pay too much? Did we take too much out? I mean, do you recall that?

The very first year was kind of like, it was a break even year, because we had a lot of costs to pay the employees and also the office.

So you didn't pay anything?

No, because we broke even the first year.

Yeah, I think Jade gives a great rule of thumb, but I'd also be consulting that tax professional every quarter. Start where... I'd say my point is, Jade gave you great advice, start there, but I would also be watching that, because I ran a company as well as my wife and I did, and we were checking in quarterly.

That's good, but sometimes it's more expensive because you're paying for more of their time. Yeah, it can be. So, depending on what you're... I think that's whatever you want to spend, I think that's up to you, but Ken makes a good point in making sure that you're. just...

Yeah, I just wanted to maximize the dollars, so I didn't want to hold back too much or hold back too little. So that was the only reason I was checking in.

And a lot of times. by the final quarter, you're kind of like, okay, you can start to see...

Well, you start dialing it in. And to your point, I think you make a good point, but we weren't spending a half day, or it was maybe one quick phone call. Yeah, that's true. It was not a heavy fee. and to do it.

So got that wrapped up, squared away. Okay. So now with the debt, how much debt do you guys have?

Okay. So I wrote down three here. So the credit card debt is around $6,000 and then we have a personal loan that is around $13,000.. So $600 monthly is our pay. Okay.

So the best way to pay off debt is to use what we call the debt snowball method. There's other methods out there, but this is really the best, fastest, most motivating way. So what we do there is we pay minimum payments on everything, right? You have to satisfy that minimum payment. So you're not late or delinquent or anything like that.

Yeah, it does.

And so then you can move a lot quicker that way. And it's nice because you kind of feel that excitement of when you pay off a debt, you're like, yes, I did it. And now you want to go do another one. So that's what I would say.

Okay. That's perfect. That makes sense.

Hey, real quick question on the car. What do you think that car is worth? Are you upside down in it? What's going on with the car?

So, basically this car was a Corolla, 2020 Corolla that we got. And the car actually appreciated because we got in a very good timing, right? So the car now is worth around $18,000 to $17,000.. I don't even know if maybe it's a good thing to maybe sell the car.

That's what I want Jay to weigh in on. What do you think, Jay?

Is it your second car? Do you already have another car, or do you have...

Yeah, this is the second car. That's my wife's car. Okay. So I drive another car, yeah.

And the other car you have is paid off?

No, it's a lease that I have.

Oh, you didn't mention that. You didn't mention the lease.

I'm sorry.

Uh-oh. Listen, debt is money that you owe to anyone for any reason. For those of you listening, that's not to get onto you, Mateus, but a lot of people, they're like, I don't have any debt, just my student loan. And I'm like, no, that is debt. Okay.

So this one, that's my car, and it's $450 a month. And it goes until June of this year. That's when I'm done with the car.

Okay. So, in June of this year, you're out of that lease. We're not redoing it. We're not, that's it. So are you going to try to buy the car?

Just turn it in? Yeah, just turn it in and try to get something cheaper per month.

Okay. No, no, no, no, not per month. Okay. I'm glad that you said this, because we're getting to the root of it. The whole thing, and this is not just for you, so don't think I'm griping at you, although I am griping at you a little bit.

I agree. I'd sell the car, by the way, the $18,000 value. That is rare, that a car goes up in value. I'd get out of it. now, get a decent little car, get you A to Z for five grand.

I did. I wanted to clarify from the last caller, because he was saying that his wife was self-employed, and he wanted to know how much to set aside for taxes. And so we were talking about it, but I don't think we clarified, Ken, that the money that he's setting aside, the 25% to 30% that he's setting aside every month for the quarterly taxes, that's of his payroll. It's not of everything that the business brings in. And so that's why I was kind of saying, if you can have your payroll set as the same amount, it makes that a lot easier.

Yeah, good stuff. All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Winter is rougher in some areas of the country than others, but there are things that make sense to do, no matter where you live. That's why Neighborly has a helpful winter checklist that you can download for free.

Today's question comes from Naomi in Utah. Is it greedy or ambitious for me to work towards reaching a specific number goal of making $20,000 a month? I work as an insurance broker. We are expecting a little boy in March and we have 15,000 in debt. I want to help my family get out of the financial hole.

Do you? I think it's very straightforward.

I love it so much, but I think a lot of people deal with this. And there's a lot of angles we can talk about this. Number one, the answer is absolutely not. It makes you a woman who is loving her family well, that you want to step up and pay off your debt and make sure that life is good when baby boy arrives and make sure that you're pulling your weight in your home.

I would say it's not greedy, but it is ambitious. By the way, ambitious is great. It's a great quality to have, because what I see with this is you've got a very clear goal and a very clear why. And that kind of ambition is fabulous.

And a good point to add to that is, and I want to say this for anybody, you may have heard Dave say this, but it's so true. Money only makes you more of what you already are. It's completely amoral. It's nothing until you add yourself to it, right? And so, if you're an ambitious person, it just makes you more ambitious, right?

Dropped the Kenneth on me. I thought I got in trouble.

Listen, if we really go on, I'm saying Wayne. I'm getting to the middle name.

Yeah. I like teaching lesson number two. And here's what I would add to that. You've got to be careful that if you make $5,000 a month right now, and you set a goal for $20,000, that can be a very intimidating and very quickly discouraging mountain to climb. So, to your point, it's kind of like going, I know I need to lose a hundred pounds.

That's right.

So, if you're thinking about paying off $380,000 all day long, as opposed to going, no, baby step one is. And so this is the idea. And that's why we talk about it. So just, I loved your advice there. And I think that's the key, because if you go, oh, I got to make $20,000..

Yeah. Yeah. You got to break it into those bite-sized chunks. Yeah. Yeah.

All right. To the phones. we go. Christine is joining us. And I think this is Coeur d'Alene.

You did. Good job.

Well, I'm hooked on phonics.

Oh, no.

How can we help?

So my husband and I have been considering selling our house.

Wow.

Shoot.

So, with the work that he was doing and the company he worked for, he couldn't go find a temporary job because they could call him until late morning. About 10 o'clock, I think it was. Every single day, they could still call him into work. And they did every once in a while. So he wasn't able to go find work elsewhere.

That's like a carrot dangling.

It was not fun. So he doesn't work there anymore.

Yeah. Well, and, by the way, real quick lesson. And I know you've learned this, but I do want to point this out. He could have left.

He could have left.

And he should have left in the future if this happens. And I'm just talking to him right now.

He's listening in the other room. Oh, good.

What's his name? So I can make this work.

His name's Daniel.

You're a good man. You're a hard worker. But this is something you need to learn from. Never again, let a situation like that hold you hostage. You got to go, do what you have to do to take care of you and that amazing wife.

Okay. So we were pre, before we moved up here, we were in baby steps four, five, and six.

Great. Okay.

So we were prepared for a layoff, not prepared for something that long. Then, in April, my husband had to have his appendix removed.

Oh, yikes.

Literally right when he went back to work. It was great.

Oh my gosh. That's horrible. By the way, I've had that happen to me and that's not fun.

Oh, that's horrible.

It was not fun.

Yeah, been there, done that.

No, we, so now we have about $3,000 left of medical bills. After that happened, then my husband realized I don't want to go work for that company anymore. So we quit. We started a small LLC where he was doing material deliveries, some construction things, with his brother. Which was great.

Was it replacing the income fully that he was making before?

It was not fully replacing what he was supposed to be getting from his previous employer. Okay. There's a lot of things that happened with that employer. We ended up paying $1,200 a month in insurance. So that really took a huge hit on us, that they told us they were going to work with us so I wouldn't have to pay that.

Okay, Christine. So here's where we're at. That music means we have to step aside, pay some bills, but we're going to put you on hold. Okay. Because we got to come back.

So we have a big income problem. Our mortgage is $2150 a month. And then in our budget, our bills, what we owe comes to about $4,000 a month.

Well, what I'd like for you to go through is list out your debt, what you owe, like the entire balance. So, for instance, if I said, you'd say we have a car and we owe $14,000, or we have, like, go through all your debt, so I can kind of see how this is.

We have only medical debt. Okay. And it's $100,000.. Yeah, it's supposed to be $150,000 a month is what we're supposed to be paying.

No, no. What you're supposed to be doing... Sorry.

No, go ahead.

I'm revving up,

Yes.

And how much is it?

And it's $3,000?

So here's the income problem. Well, no, no.

Answer that question first. Yes, yes. But I heard the income problem. The income problem is you're only making $2,150 a month. And I'm struggling...

No, no, no. That's the mortgage payment.

Oh, that's the mortgage payment. What are you making? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. What are you making?

We are making just under $3,000 right now.

Okay. So I wasn't far off. Okay. Just under, is that $2,500 or is that $2,900??

That's about $2,900.

Okay.

That's take-home?

That is our take-home. Goodness, gracious.

Who's doing what?

Who's working? We are both working part-time because I feel scared for my husband to go back full-time.

Why?

We have two small children at home.

Okay.

And last winter was not a good winter for me.

Because of?

Moving to a new area, not knowing anybody.

Okay. I feel that. I feel that. Yeah, being alone.

And then when he would work, he would leave in like 4 a.

Okay. So you've got some real trauma based on that situation. It was very uncomfortable for you. And so that fear is you're kind of holding him back going, I don't want you to go. I don't want you to leave me here.

Yes.

Okay. All right. And so why aren't you working full-time?

I don't. I think, because he also doesn't want to be home full-time, because he wants to be the provider for our family. Okay. And I don't want to take that away from him.

How old are your kids?

One and a half and three and a half.

Okay. So real talk, real talk, real talk. When my husband and I moved here from South Florida, it was very difficult. My husband works from home. We have two small kids, similar to you.

Don't worry. We're going to play pickleball with Stacey and Sam. We'll do some of those hours. Hey, you know what?

I want you to know that it's a real thing, but don't let it hold you back. Just embrace it and go, this is where we're at right now. The good news is you guys don't have a lot of debt. And it can be gone in a month if you guys would just work.

Well, Christine, listen, you've nailed it. You have an income problem, not a debt problem, but you actually have a deeper problem. You've got some real trauma and you've got some real fear. And you're making this harder than it needs to be. So I understand how hard it was.

That's right.

We've got a false narrative there. Bad experience. What do we learn from that? Not going to do that again. Not good for Christine.

Got to.

I mean, and if he can't get it quickly, he's got two part-time jobs to equal full-time. And you need to work and you guys are going to be okay. Because let me tell you something, if there was a person on the planet who was not ready to have three kids under the age of three, it was me. And I survived it. If I can survive it, not lose my mind, then he can.

Like you, won't even have the choice.

Which makes it even worse. So stop the bleeding now. Stop the bleeding. And it's a band-aid. And the band-aid is income.

Yes, sir.

All right.

Christine, we love you, Christine. We're pulling for you.

Sweet, sweet, sweet.

We had to give her the tough side, the rocky exterior.

Yeah, because here's what's encouraging about that.

They have no.

$3,000.

Their thing. one is keeping their house. Like, their thing one is keeping...

Well, 100%. Keeping their house. But do you agree that too many people rely on the emergency fund when there's a job loss as opposed to going, no, that's to replace the HVAC. I'm going to go work, do something. I try to guard our emergency fund.

I'm going to say it like this. I think that it is there for if you lose your job, because here's the thing, it might take a few minutes. Not for long. But it might take a little minute if you're like, hey, I had this wonderful corporate job. I was making $70,000 a year.

I'll give you that. How long is too long to use the emergency fund?

Oh, well, here's what I wanted to say. You're always supplementing it with something. So you're going out and doing some type of work until you find the next work.

That's what I'm getting at.

So if you're-.

I'm going to go two and three jobs to not use it. Yeah.

If you're contracting your own work a little bit, you're picking up some Instacart type stuff and it's supplementing you, but you need a little bit from the emergency fund just to make it meet.

Little bit.

That's what it's there for. I'm not going to be mad at someone for that.

I didn't know I was so hardcore on that.

But I feel the sentiment of that. I don't want to touch it, but I get it if you do. I don't want people to view it as a failure when they have to use their emergency fund for an emergency.

Okay. You know what? Great point. I don't want to judge anybody that's done it. I would rather take on the older brother coach role and go, hey, I have always viewed it as the HVAC that goes out in the middle of winter, and it's eight grand or 12 grand.

Don't touch it. How can we do it without-?

Well, here's the deal. If I rely on the emergency fund, it takes away some of the urgency to go get paid. You're right, Ken. That's all I'm saying. I'm not judging.

I think you're right, Ken. We need to have that Ken Coleman mindset.

There we go. Oh, wow. This is very exciting. Hey, Jade agrees with me. I'm going to take a break while I can.

Hi, I'm fangirling a little bit. I'm so excited. Thank you.

Well, you got to have faith.

You got to have faith, the faith, the faith.

There it is. Look at that. That was seamless. She didn't even know I was going to do it. Faith, what's going on?

So I recently stopped my business, I guess, or sold it. And I have all of my equipment, which I am now selling for $3,000.. And I'm going to get the $3,000 in a lump sum tomorrow.

Sweet. Nice.

I've been following the Baby Steps pretty religiously by the book. And I'm on Baby Step number two.

Cool.

So currently, right now, I have four credit cards total. But my lowest is $600 and then $3,000 exactly.

OK.

So the question comes in where I'm going to get this $3,000 tomorrow. And I know, usually we go, you know, first you pay off the $600 and then you'll go on to the $3,000.. However, since I am getting exactly the $3,000 and the minimum payment on the $3,000 credit card is $130 versus the $600 is only $29, I was wondering if it would be smarter to go ahead and pay off the $3,000 in full. That way I have that extra $130 each month where I had paid that off. And then it would really help me pay the $600 off quicker.

Listen, it's a $600 difference. So the minimum payment is based on what the balance is on the card. So if you pay off the $600 one first and then you turn around and pay the rest on the $3,000 one, it's still going to knock your balance down to almost nothing, all but $600..

Right.

So if we're splitting hairs here, which we are splitting hairs, I would still do it the correct way, just for the feeling of like, I'm done with this one and now I'm going to the next one. And, honestly, what we're doing here is we're teaching ourselves to submit to a plan and a way of life that's different from the way we've always done things. And that's what's at the crux of why I'm telling you to do it that way. Because I mean, like I said, we're talking about two bills here, Ken. It's not like we're talking about a long list of debts.

Awesome. That sounds great. Thank you guys so much.

Yeah, you got it. Listen, what I want to clarify here, listen, if she goes home and she's like, listen, I want to do it that other way, because I like that. Lightning's not going to strike her. But I just told her that.

I agree with you. It's still going to be, she's still going to have $600 to pay off.

Exactly.

It's one way or the other.

It doesn't matter.

But I will say, I agree with you, Jayden, because you could almost hear the psychology in her voice that she was like, if I pay off the three, I only have to do $29 a month. And that's the whole point when Dave devised this thing.

Yeah, it's not about the monthly payment.

You don't give yourself this little out to go, well, I only have $600 left on this, but it's only $29 a month. So I could fudge here. And that's why. It's all mindset.

It's all mindset.

So great advice there. Let's go to Warren now in Houston, Texas. Warren, how can we help?

Hey, man. So, essentially, in a nutshell, my wife quit working because we decided it was going to be best and we didn't try to make it work. For her to stay home and just try to live off my income. And that income is $62,000.. She was a registered nurse.

How much was her income when she was a registered nurse? How much did she make? How much did she bring home when she was a registered nurse?

She was roughly $30 an hour, maybe right around the same, about $60,000 or so.

So you've taken a cut of 50%.

Okay. So we've got about a couple of years ago. We've been living off that for a little while, but, like I said, it wasn't hit.

Okay. So, because we've got about three minutes, three and a half minutes, quickly lay out for Jade, what your actual debt is, smallest to largest?

So the smallest would probably be student loan, $3,200.

Okay. And how much is left on your personal mortgage?

That's about $2,300.

$2,300 on the tractor?

Yes.

Okay. And then go back and tell me, sorry, I talked over you. The property, what do you owe on it?

The investment property is $90,000.

Okay. And then your personal mortgage, what do you owe on it? Just curious.

I don't have a mortgage.

Oh, you guys are renting?

No, we own the house.

Oh, you own it. All right. Okay, great.

What's the investment property worth?

Ballparking, if I had to guess, probably $120,000. if it was on a high-end, maybe $130,000..

Listen, if I'm you, I don't.

As far as what?

You're not on a budget. Okay. There's your answer.

Like a general day-to-day budget? Yeah, so I got a budgeting app that I downloaded recently and I started putting things into that. So yeah, I've kind of started to budget things out.

Okay, you're starting to budget. I'm happy to hear that. I hope that you're using the every dollar budget, because it truly is the best way to budget. But I think when I'm looking at these numbers, I'm going, okay, the debt is not astronomical. I really truly think that you guys need a plan for your money.

It's cash flowing. It's about $6,000 a year or so.

I have a radical idea. Sell it? Radical. How long has the wife been home?

About two years now. So I have a daughter, that's two, and I have a relatively...

I got to tell you something, the hard conversation that I'm having with my wife in this situation is go back to work, the kids will be fine. It's such a small amount of debt.

I know, I know.

And if we double our income, you can work at that snowball fast.

I know that's crazy. And then you can keep the income property.

Am I crazy, Jay?

No, that's right on right.

For a small amount of time. Just to pay this debt off.

Lickety split. Doink! Yeah.

So I think it's a tough conversation. Kids will be fine. You need that income. That's the fastest way. RN, come on.

It's either that or get rid of the income property. Yep.

Yikes. This is The Ramsey Show.

Yeah.

But I know you have, and I know you've got an opinion. Listen. So I am seeing that now, in our outrage culture, some student loan borrowers are going, I'm not going to pay. I'm going to protest.

Wow. Yeah.

It's one thing to protest in the streets over a political candidate. I'm all for that. Or some civil society problem. But this is not that. This is, you borrowed the money, and now, am I hearing this right?

What? Listen, that's my take on it as well. Some student loan borrowers are refusing to pay out of protest. The article says millions of borrowers with existing student loans still have not made a payment since the bills resumed in October after a three-year hiatus. And some admit that they're refusing to pay for spite, like, strictly out of protest.

That's going to work.

Oh, man. 44% said they believe their protests will lead to cancellation of some federal student loan debt. And 28% think that it is likely that this boycott will convince the government to cancel.

all student loan debt. That's like me believing, if I commit to leg day, that I'll be able to dunk a basketball.

Listen. It's not going to happen. King Coleman.

I don't have the fast twitch. I don't care what I do. I can't dunk a basketball. When I hear this.

I only hear it in a whiny voice. Make it stop. I only hear it in the voice of my three-year-old when she doesn't get her way. Because here's, like, it's time to let it go. Like, can we just let it go, guys?

You, let it go. Let it go right now. Let it go.

It's time to let it go and finally accept the fact that these student loans are here. But I understand. Let me just say, Ken, I understand why people are starting to feel like maybe there's a way. Like, you remember, on Dumb and Dumber? Yeah.

Yeah.

And what's happening is this administration does keep kind of dropping these little bread crumbs of forgiveness. that is making people feel like maybe there's a chance. I know earlier this month, Biden-.

That's a great point.

Yeah.

Because that was dangled for well over a year.

It's still being dangled. Like, Biden just did. another one that says that they're going to forgive people who have $12,000 or less of student loans. That's the headline. But the underlying part says, and they've been paying for 10 years already.

You got to show me how to set up an Instacart on the commercial break. Listen- I hear a lot about it.

The problem is people are thinking to themselves, I can get away with just not paying my student loan. Like, if I don't want to pay it, I'm just not going to pay it.

I think I'm going to try this with my taxes this year. I'm going to tell my accountant that I'm protesting in hopes that the IRS will see the error of their ways. I think it's that ridiculous. I think it's the same level of ridiculousness.

But this is the perfect situation where we apply that adage of like, it's drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. Because the government is in their office with their feet up on the table eating a ham sandwich. while you're destroying your credit. You're making it hard, next to impossible, for you to ever buy a house. You're setting yourself up for them to garnish your wages.

Okay, I'm glad you're talking about this. Because the real real is what? How long does this protest last before they start cracking on them?

Well, you know, the first thing that happens is like when you don't pay your bill, it's like, okay, you're late. And then it goes into- There's fees, 6% in some cases. Then you go into default. And if you stay in default for long enough, then you go from owing what your missed payments were to owing the entire balance right up front. Like it escalates very quickly.

That's what people don't realize.

Yeah. They can hold your passport.

You know what? While you're protesting, while you're protesting, they can do those things to you.

And the thing is, you think that these people are losing sleep over this in the government? They don't care about that. They don't care about you.

In fact, they make you a poster child for vengeance. Listen. I'm telling you, there's nothing. You know that old phrase, how's it go? Nothing like a scorned woman.

Something along the lines. Something about a woman scorned?

A woman scorned. Let me tell you what's worse than a scorned woman. A scorned bureaucrat. Oh, gosh. I'm telling you, you take a DC insider, they're all about regulation.

That's it.

They're coming for you. I promise you right now.

Listen.

There is no protest.

There's no protest. It's over. It's over. I just need people to understand. it's over.

They feel lied to.

They feel lied to. And they feel like they're owed something. And I totally get that. Like anybody who's had student loans feels that. You feel like, hey, I did what my parents told me.

I like that. I got a question for you.

It's like when you were good at high school basketball, like you were good at basketball in middle school. I was. And people, you just keep reliving it and keep replaying. It's like, let it go, man. That's why I shouldn't be playing pick up.

That's exactly why I don't play pick up at lifetime, because the glory days are so far gone that I can't even remember them. All right. Now I have a question for you. OK, because I think you make a very good point that these people feel lied to. And OK, but how should those people feel that way when you've got people like me and my wife who paid off our student loans?

Well, everybody feels like they're the exception, Ken. And I get that. Some people, some people, are like, listen, I signed for my loans. I know I signed for my loans. I knew I knew it was going to be 60,000.

I gave you the shot. You did a great job. I'm going to be a little bit angrier about it. All right. I'm tired of the fairness doctrine.

I'm sick of fair.

Life isn't fair. Life is hard. Life sucks. Life can be great on the other side of hard and suck. You know how.

Come on, Ken.

And my life is great right now. So I'm tired of fair. Life, isn't fair, you little Snowflake. Get inside or you're going to melt. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, thanks for taking my call.

You bet. What's going on?

So I've got a question about contributing toward educational expenses for my kids. And I've got it kind of needs my advice on two different sides. So I divorced in 2020 and sort of really leaned into the Ramsey principles. I was able to pay off $80,000 to $90,000 of debt.

Way to go.

And I'm sitting in a much better situation financially.

That's great.

So that covers that side. So, on my four kids, there is no saving. There's nothing for them. They're 16,, 14, 8, and 6.. So, kind of feeling a little pressure on that.

Why would you care if your ex-wife resents you? Because you're putting money...

No, he's saying him resenting her.

Oh, I misunderstood. I apologize.

Me having resentful toward her is that, you know, I'm sacrificing to better them. And she gets to be the fun parent and do all the trips and...

Well, you got to rise above that.

Yeah.

Why? Yeah.

And that's going to come out in the wash, though. Like, as they get older, they're going to see the reality of what's really gone on here. Right now. they're young and they don't know the difference, but just trust me, that'll come out in the wash. What I would say is it can't hurt to go to her and say, listen, I'm thinking about the kids' college.

No, I'm free and clear.

Okay, perfect. And do you have some savings for yourself?

Yeah, I've got three to six month expenses. Last year, we bought a new vehicle for my wife. We have a net worth probably in that $600,000 to $700,000 range, just for clarity. We're $37,000 and $39,000.. So we're in a better spot.

And are you investing 15% towards retirement?

Both of us are investing 15%.

Okay, so here's the deal. You've got a 16-year-old, it's too late for the 529.. You're not going to be able to do enough for it to matter. What was the second age?

14.

Yeah, you're kind of in that situation there. So you're looking at scholarships and cash flowing and all that. So now you're looking at the youngsters. And it comes down to what, Jade? The line item of what he can actually do each month for the littles?

I just want to make sure. It sounds like you and your current wife are on the same page with money. Is it just you putting your income? Or are you guys in agreement that we're both paying for this?

Yeah, so that's where it gets in. We've combined everything together. We're living as one. We have sort of a different mindset as it relates to how life works with money and kids and everything else. Because while she had a family that had a lot of money, they were very controlling with it.

She feels like they need to make their own way? Is that what you're saying?

A little bit. My 16-year-old works 14 hours a week on top of school and everything. He's making money, but he has a wife and a girlfriend and everything else. Kind of, where we struggle a little bit is because I make 4x her income. I make 160..

You guys need a marriage counselor. Craig, listen to me. You guys need a marriage counselor. You guys got to get on the same page with this stuff. She's dragging baggage in.

Yeah, I agree.

Jade, give the financial advice. But I just have to say that.

I think that I can tell you what I think numbers-wise, but I truly agree with Ken. And that's normal. We're not saying that in a like, you need counseling. Listen, I go to counseling. Everybody needs counseling.