You’re Doing Better Than You Think!

I must tell you, for the YouTube audience, you're going to have to make sure you really check out the fit today. She is, look at that, she's going to stand up, she's rocking the Air Jordan. Is that actually suede? Is it suede? It's a...

The suede sweatsuit? That's what I like to say. Call it suede, yeah. Suede sweatsuit. I am just rocking the brawny shirt, because I couldn't find anything else in the closet.

But we are here for you. That's your choice, Ken. That's your personal choice. No matter what we're wearing, we are here for you. David is up in Springfield, Massachusetts.

David, how can we help? Hi, thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? Alrighty, so I am a mattress salesman.

I'm currently driving an hour to work every day and back. I have zero debt. My total cost of living is $700 a month. That includes $520 for gas. Now, I was wondering if I should move out towards there, because I currently am not paying rent.

So that could jack up my cost of living, but it could take a lot of stress off of myself. Or I can move within the company to a location closer to where I live, like within five to ten minutes. There's no guarantee. I'd stay at one store, though, and it could possibly lower my income. So I was just wondering what I should do.

Okay, so no to lowering the income. So that's not an option, because you have too many other options in this economy right now, to where there's just no viable reason for you to lower your income. So making the move closer to the current role, to me, is the best option you've given me. I'll give you another option in a minute. I'm going to tell you why.

Yes, you're going to have to pay rent, but you know what? That's called adulting. It's time to do that anyway. Number two, you're going to save money on the gas, but you're also going to take less wear and tear, or put less wear and tear on the car, too. So I think, if I look at less wear and tear, Jade, and I look at less gas money, and I look at less stress, those are three viable reasons to move closer to the current job.

Now, the third option is, all right, let me look at a better job. If you want to be in mattress sales, and that's setting you up for a better position within that company, then I think you go option two, which is moving closer. But I look at a third option, which is, can I make more money? Can I get on a better ladder and remove the drive as well? That would be my favorite option.

But I'm curious, what is that professional future? What are you thinking about?

I mean, I didn't really have a direction until I got into sales. So I do personally love sales, working with people and everything, so I definitely would like to keep it in there. Going to school and becoming an electrician was also an option, just being in the trades. Love that. I just don't...

I currently... I just don't know if I want to take out student loans or just save up for that. How old are you? 18.. 18..

Yep. All right. So because you don't... 18, sorry. It's very normal to be 18 and not know what you want to do with your life, okay?

So I say we go to moving closer to the current sales job. That's going to change your life. We laid out all the positives to that, all right? Now you begin to think, do I really want to make the move and go to trade school and be an electrician? Do I want to go into plumbing?

Do I want to do something else? And I'm going to give you my Get Clear Career Assessment as my gift, an early Christmas gift for you, and the book From Paycheck to Purpose. Think of the assessment as a compass and the book as the guide to climb the mountain that you choose. Because at 18, you have plenty of time to experiment and check this out and get some awareness of who you are and what you want to do, why you want to do it, and where you can do it. That's the next step.

So stability is key. Jade, you cannot make big life decisions when you're stressed out. Facts. And you're driving two hours in the car and you're frustrated. You need some life stability that will lead to life clarity.

I'm going to play against you on one of these, though. Of course you are. Here it comes. So here's the one thing that I would also think through. I think what Ken said was great and really, really good advice, but there was one thought of it that I thought, okay, well, if you do Ken's assessment and you start getting clarity around something that you would like to do, that requires some form of investment on some form of education, I'm not saying it's college, but maybe it's something that's going to cost you to get the training that you need.

There could be a piece of this where it's good for you to stay where you're at temporarily in order to save money, because your cost of living is so very low. That might be the margin that you need to save up. I don't disagree. So my point here is- But I don't want him to go backwards financially, so at least he gets a better paying job locally. That's right.

That's right. The point is it's not urgent for you to be like, I've got to make this choice instantly. I want you to do Ken's thing first and then that's going to inform what your choice is next. That's right. Makes sense, David?

Yeah, absolutely. And one last thing. I think I was a little unclear on the income. So it is a flat rate or commission, so it's a possibility of lowering my income, however, that's not a definite. So I could be making even more money by moving closer- I didn't know that was an option.

That's my favorite option. Yeah, so I wasn't clear about that. I'm sorry. Yeah. So here's what Jade and I are saying.

We're in a complete agreement. Yeah. I just want you to be stable. I want you to make that work rhythm. Here's what I know.

I'm getting ready to post right now on the commercial break. I'm going to Instagram. I was working on this and I'm reading all this wellbeing at work stuff. Let me tell you something. If you're sick of your job, I can promise you you're sick because of your job.

I'm getting ready to post that. And so when a young male like this is, and anybody, is driving all that hours in your, You get sick, literally. You know what I'm saying? Mentally, emotionally, and then that leads to the physical lack of wellness. So my advice, David, was I want you to be well so that we can make the right choice.

But if you can stay local, meaning we switch jobs and we don't go backwards financially, I agree with Jade, that is the best choice for all of the reasons. The car wear and tear, the gas, money, the rent, hey, you're saving money on rent right now. I love that move. And, oh, by the way, I get to stabilize my life. And then I decide, is it welding?

Is it electrician? Or whatever you use. And I know you mentioned electrician work, but can I give you a quick piece of advice on the electrician piece? I want to challenge you in the next two weeks to go to coffee or lunch or a cocktail with an electrician or two. And I want you to just go, hey, I'm thinking about kicking the tires on this deal and going into this.

Before I do, tell me what you love, what you hate, the good, the bad. How did you start? When did you launch your own business? I would love for you to get that advice from an electrician. Jade, I can't say that enough for young people.

Don't you have to be 21 to have a cocktail, Kim? Oh, I forgot. Look at you catching me on all the particulars. I'm just playing. You got me on that one.

I'm not promoting underage drinking at all. I forgot that he was 18.. No cocktails, David. All right? Get yourself an O'Doul's.

Do they still sell that trash? A Zima. Oh, that's cocktail. Is it? It's got alcohol in it.

Near beer. Yeah, just because you put the Jolly Rancher in it doesn't take the alcohol away. We have lost, we have lost the train. Let's get it back on the tracks. Hang on the line, David.

We've got the Get Clear assessment and from Paycheck to Purpose, but you've got some great options, my friend. Thanks for the call. Don't move. More, Randy, show coming up.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your money life, your work life, and your relationship life. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. Jade is one of our money experts here on the Ramsey Show and I am the work, I don't even like ever using the word expert, but I help people win at work.

How about that? If you're winning at your work life, here's what I know, you have a better chance of winning in the rest of your life. So, wherever you're at on the journey, maybe you're not happy at work, you want to make some more money, you want to launch a side hustle, get out of debt, I want to help you make more money while we're in the baby steps. How about that? And so, to the extent that we can take any of those calls, I'm here for that.

Jade is ready to go for you as well. We continue with Preston in Columbus, Ohio. Preston, how can we help?

Hey, how's it going? Good. I work a job where I have to move every three-ish years and I rent currently and I didn't know if I should continue renting or, when I move next, I should look to buy a home, because I've heard that you shouldn't buy a home unless you're planning on living on it for at least like five years. And so I didn't know if I should just continue renting for the rest of my career or should I try to buy a home. So how much longer do you plan to be on in the military?

I'm doing the whole 20.. This is the whole thing. 18 more years. Is it just you or are you married? Do you have kids?

I'm married with one kid and one kid on the way. Okay, cool. You know, I think you need to take it on a case-by-case basis. So far, you've made it this long without buying, correct? You're currently renting?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I'm currently renting. I think there's something important about, you know, not stacking up a bunch of real estate in different states and cities. Two years is kind of where you want to be as far as like not having to take on capital gains and things like that.

So I think, if you can take it on a case-by-case basis, because at some point purchasing real estate is going to be a big part of your wealth building, but I don't think that you're there yet. I think right now that you can continue to rent. And, as you've been in the military longer, if you end up being stationed somewhere longer and it seems like this is going to be at least four or five years, it could be worth it to get into real estate, buy a home. And then, if you know you're moving somewhere and it's going to be a short-term thing, whatever that profit you have, just pocket it, put it in a high yield and let it grow, whatever baby step you're on, that sort of thing, until you can buy again long-term. Does that make sense?

Yeah. Currently we save, so we have our rent, obviously, but then we also save, we have a brokerage that we call our house fund, that we put money into. I'm fine with that. We just kind of figured we wouldn't be buying a home for a very, what we assumed was a very long time. We figured we'd just invest it into a brokerage and then, whenever we can buy a home, we have this nice pot of money to pull from.

What's that very long time? What's that number in your head? Well, we'd like to build a home eventually, and that's probably when I retire, so 18 years from now. Okay. I love Jade's advice and we get a lot of these calls from folks in the military and a lot of the advice you get is, you know what, you guys can, everywhere you go, buy a house and now you're building a real estate portfolio.

Yeah, I've heard that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've heard it. Terrible. We really want you to avoid that temptation and Jade can explain why, but I would just say this, you think about 18 years from now, you think about that home fund that they're investing in, that is going to be a sweet down payment on the house you want to build.

Maybe even pay cash. Maybe cash. And so I love the idea of you guys renting or taking advantage of military housing and just stack cash to build the home of your dreams. I think that'll keep you going if you keep your mind on, I'm just playing a little mindset thing here and I'll get back to Jade, but my mindset would be how sweet of a home could we build? or how can we pay off, I mean, pay cash for this house we want to build, and it's just 18 years.

Let me tell you something, my friend. I'm old enough to remember going, 18 years is a long time, and I could sit here today and tell you 18 years goes by fast. Man. What baby step are you on?

Currently, we have no debt except for student loans. Okay. So, as much as I love the picture that you're painting and I love the idea that you're thinking ahead and putting money away in a brokerage, I'd like to get you a little bit more focused so that we can get to this beautiful reality that Ken has painted, and even the reality that you're saying of, hey, in 18 years, this is when we're going to do our dream home. So let's pedal back just for a second and make sure that we're going about all of this in the most efficient way possible. Is that fair?

Yeah. Okay. So how familiar with you are, how familiar are you with our baby steps? I know him. Yeah.

I've listened to Dave for a while. Okay. So, then you're well aware that first we want to get a thousand dollars saved. Do you have that? Yeah.

Yep. Okay. We've got, so we've got an emergency fund. that's a little over 20,000 sitting in a savings account. Great.

And how much student loans? I have about five left, and then my wife has about 10.. Okay. So, if you're following the plan, then you know that the first things first is we keep a thousand dollars and we take any extra money and we throw it at our debt, right? Yeah.

I think the only reason we do that is we both have the military paying our student loans, so we get payments alongside our payments. What does that look like long-term?

They'll pay it off completely? Yeah. Completely. Like my loan, so I just got out of school here recently. My loan was originally 10,000..

The Army's already paid five of it off in the last like three years. while I was in school. They were paying off. If you pay them off early, will they reimburse you? No.

They don't pay me. They pay the loan provider directly. Okay. So if there's no need for them to pay the loan provider, they won't pay them. Interesting.

Interesting. All right. I'm going to let that slide because I know that that's going to go. Which is why we didn't tackle them aggressively, as we did when we got out of like consumer debt. So you're not on the hook for any of this whatsoever?

I mean, we make payments alongside them, so we're making payments, but I've done the math. What I'm trying to understand here is, is it worth it for you to... Because if you're paying payments now, if their promise to you is, hey, we're going to repay all of this, I'm not really sure why you're making payments now. So part of you... Go ahead.

They don't... So they pay alongside us, so we pay, they pay, but we have to be in good standing. So the loan provider says, hey, this is your monthly due, and you pay that. And what's your monthly due?

I think my wife's owes like $2.10 a month, and then I pay like $70 on mine. Okay. So she pays $2.10 and you pay $70, and then they match your payment?

Yeah, they match your payment based off... It's weird. But they pay about $1,500 a year. Okay. So I would just love for you to get clarity on that, because I would hate for you to kick this around for five and six years apiece.

I would love to find out and get clarity and be like, hey, I want my cut of this, but I also don't want to be paying payments for the next 10 years. Is there any way that I can pay up and get my part of this done, and then you guys pay your portion of it? So do a little research on that for me, because I want you to get the money that they're happy to pay, but I also don't want you doing this for years and years and years to come. Is that fair enough? Yeah, it's fair.

We're pretty... No, I'm pretty sure. They'll be paid off within the next three years, and it's like another month, but with me and my wife. And that's with you just keeping this payment as it is? You don't have to do anything else?

Yeah, we pay the thing, and they pay based off of the initial principle. So my loan was a $10,000 loan, so they paid a certain percentage of that initial principle, and they keep paying based off the principle, whether the principle... Because now it's at like $5,000, but they still pay. that... Last payment was like $16,000..

Okay. I still stand by what I said, and I'd still look and see, is there any way I can make this thing go faster? Because I don't want to pay payments for three more years. So just check into it. It'll make me sleep better at night.

And then are you... So? that would put you to baby step three. Are you currently investing 15%? I just want to make sure you're doing these baby steps, and then the next thing is putting aside for that house.

So go through, check and make sure those things are clicking for you. If they are, you're doing excellent. I'm just poking holes in this because you're already doing so well. I want to make sure that you're just... You're already running fast.

I just want to make sure that you win. the race, is basically what it boils down to. I like it. Good job, Coach J. Thank you for the call, Preston.

Hey, don't move. We're going to take a quick break. Coming back with more of your calls, this is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Kent Coleman. Jayde Warshaw is my partner in crime today, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225,. talking to you about your money. Jayde's here, our resident money guru, and I'm going to talk with you about your work as it relates to your income.

Maybe you're not so happy where you are and you're going, can I make a transition while I'm in the baby steps? The answer is yes. We can walk you through how to do that. Remember, David said for decades, your income is your greatest wealth building tool, and I want to help you with your income. I think you can make more money and experience more meaning, and so that's very relevant.

I'm here to help out on those work questions. Let's get right back to the phones. Going back to my old stomping grounds here in the hot Atlanta area, Ricky is on the line. Ricky, how can we help? Hey, how's it going, guys?

I am in baby step two, and my question is, how should I best set myself up for filling my boss's old position? Oh, I love this question. Kim, that's right up your alleyway. We're talking promotion here. We're talking more pay, right, Ricky?

Correct. All right. Tell me what we know right now. Where do we stand? Is the position officially open?

Is the boss saying, okay, tell me more? Yeah, so it's officially open. His last day is tomorrow.

I've already talked with my boss's boss and told him I want to apply, and he welcomed that, but kind of let me know that he's looking for someone who has a lot of leadership capacity or experience in managing a team or, on the other end. The job is facilities management, so just experience and knowledge in that field, managing a budget, those kind of things, so those are the kind of two things that I think is going to play against me, because I don't necessarily have that experience, and I'm a little younger. It feels to me like the boss set you up. The boss's boss set you up, and I'm going to give the real real always. That was a bit of a stiff arm.

Well, sure, I welcome that, but I'm looking for ... So it's kind of a way of going, I don't see you as maybe the top candidate, but I love your question anyway, Ricky. I love your spunk, because you felt the stiff arm, and you still called me and said, how do I change that perception? So, this is what I'm going to lean into, okay? What experience do you have?

In those two areas where you don't have a lot, do you have some? Yeah. Okay, talk to me. I think I have more leadership experience than he realizes. I've had two direct reports for about a year and a half as far as leading a team, but as far as my college basketball experience ...

You play college basketball? Yeah, small ... It don't matter? Yeah. It don't matter?

You're talking to a guy who would have probably chewed my right leg off to play D3 or NAIA, which I would have been problematic once I made the team if I only had one leg, but you get my point. Yeah. I really, really, really think that that is a huge, huge thing for you to talk about leadership in the college basketball setting. I would talk about what you love most about leading those two direct reports. See, here's what I don't want you ...

I don't want you to go in and go, look, I've done this and I've done that. That's great. I want him to see you light up when you talked about being a captain or a leader in the program. I wouldn't tell a story. What was the leadership role?

How would you describe your leadership role on the basketball team?

Yeah, I mean, being a point guard, floor general, leading the team in multiple different ways. Here's what I want you to do. Instead of talking about what you did, I want you to talk about how you led, which is, I was a point guard, and then I want you to talk about what you loved most, about the pressure of leading. Yeah. That's a narrative.

Now, same thing with the two direct reports. I've had these two people report to me for the last year, or whatever it is, and I really, really enjoy this. I'm really challenged by this. Do you see how we're going to create? ...

Because it's one thing to go, I've led, and I think I can do a good job, and it's another thing for him to see your heart and to see your face light up when you talk about leading as a servant, or however you want to describe your leadership style. That would be the only advice I'm going to give you, because I think you're quite capable as a guy who is a point guard. You know how to distribute the rock, baby. That's what a good point guard does. We get into the set.

We're looking at the play. When I got to ad lib, I'm going to ad lib, but I am the captain on the floor. I would grab that narrative and just say, listen, what's his name, by the way?

Who? My boss? The boss's boss. Make up a name. Make up a name.

Bob. Okay, Bob. Bob, listen to me. Thank you for even encouraging me. I know you're probably looking for somebody with this experience and this, and this experience here, and I get that, but listen, because you've given me the opportunity, I want you to hear my heart.

Here's why I want this gig and why I believe, with your leadership, I can fill the gap. That's the narrative. If I'm Bob- And on the logistics, I would just say the same deal. Tell them what experience you have on the logistics side, but really it's about the people on the team. They know what they're supposed to do.

Your job is to help them do their job. Go ahead. If I'm Bob, I want to. ... I'm happy to hear you talk about all that stuff.

I also want to know how it transfers. If I'm Bob, I want to hear you say, I understand certain things about this job and here's how that skill transfers into that. Here's how I see it helping. That's part of what I want to see. At the very least, coming out of this, Ken, and you can tell me if I'm off track.

This is your field. I'd also be asking questions about knowing going in that he was given the stiff arm. I'd also want to know what the track is. And some of my questions would be like, how do I attain it? How do I get there?

What do you have in mind for me reaching this next level? That kind of thing. Yeah. Either way, I love that advice. You know what?

That's at the end though. That's at the end. That's at the end. And then you go, listen, thank you for the opportunity to share my heart. Now, if this doesn't work out, here's what I'd love.

What can I do? How can I do it to get an opportunity next time? I love that advice from Jade. I think that's great. I think that's great.

That's good. And I've even thought about, or had some mentors suggest, looking into some commercial HVAC education certification courses, things like that. But no, that's really good. Hey, listen, Ricky. Last piece.

Yeah. Yeah. Last piece on this. And this is all mindset stuff. All right.

This is my favorite. I love to coach. My favorite thing is on the mindset here is you have nothing to lose. If I was talking to my teenagers right now, I'd say, look, there is zero risk. I feel like I've given you a nice little framework.

You choose to use what you want, but you go in with confidence. Take your shot. You're a point guard, baby. Five, four, three, two, take the shot and get yourself in the best position for the shot and then be okay if you miss the shot. Michael Jordan famously, I got Jordan's on today.

Me too. You and I both. What you got? I just got the old school. There we go.

Old school sneaks there. Here's the deal. Jordan said once, and I'm paraphrasing, I'm known for making the last second shots, those clutch shots. But the fact is I've missed thousands more, I'm paraphrasing, than I've ever made in that clutch moment. That's right.

And the thing is, Michael Jordan for all of his greatness, and by the way, for all the people out there, yes, he's the greatest. Come on, Ken. It's not LeBron. Come on, Ken. It ain't LeBron.

Take your LeBron stuff and just, I'll raise you a Michael Air Jordan, okay? Nothing against LeBron. No, I got it against LeBron. Well, see, I don't. People think because I say Air Jordan that I'm against LeBron.

It's not true. He's just not the greatest. The GOAT is Michael. Okay. Anyway, the point is- We're on the same team is all I'm saying.

I know. Michael was the GOAT because he was willing to keep taking the shot. And also because he won the most. But fact, more rings. Yes, that's right.

It makes me, can I just go into something that- I'm already seeing you go there and I'm out of the way. Look, there's an episode of Family Matters where Harriet goes to apply for the job that she knows she's not qualified for. I love it. And they're trying to give her the stiff arm. And she's like, they're like, you're not qualified.

And she goes into this whole rant about how raising a family gives her the transferable skills to actually do the job. I agree with that. She's like, I manage the budget. I'm the draft. Like she goes into this whole thing.

And at the end of the day, she gets the job, Ken. Because she's the CEO of the house. That's right. He better shoot his shot. I like that.

You never know it. It might be the winning shot. This is where you come to get incredible life advice and a strong opinion on the greatest basketball player to ever live. Michael Jordan. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you. win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is my co-host, cohort, and we are here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225..

Of course, Jade's going to take care of those money questions, but hey, I'm in the seat today, which means we can talk about your work, and your work is tied to your money. You want to make more money? You want to launch a side hustle? Maybe 2024 is where we increase the income with the side gig, or we get the raise because we finally say it's time to move. We're going to talk about any of that.

It's the year for all of that. It is. It's all of it. and above. Here we go.

Sacramento, California is where we go next, and Daniel joins us there. Daniel, how can we help? Hi, Ken and Jade. I'm glad to be here. Well, we're glad you're here.

What is happening? Well, my parents are in their late 70s, early 80s, and they're thinking that they want to put my sister and I on their bank account, and, in case something happens, that we can access funds. Just in general, my dad has a debilitating disease, and so my mom feels like she's kind of the only one, and if something happens to her, she wants. ... It gives her a sense of security, I think, and so I just want to think if you think that's a bad idea for us to be on my parents' accounts, bank accounts.

I don't think it's a bad idea. You're probably ... Are you the power of attorney for your dad? No power of attorney. My mom makes all the decisions.

He's still in good shape and motoring along, but it's a degenerative disease. It won't get better. It'll only get worse, but there's no power of attorney right now or anything. They just ... For the first time, we did it last week.

We just brought our IDs to the bank. They added us on the account, and that was it. I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea. The only question mark I have is she's worried that something would happen and you guys would need access to the money, but not her? I guess I'm trying to figure out what's the scenario that she's concerned about.

Yeah, the scenario that she's concerned about is that if something happens to her, my dad can't really make good decisions, so that's, I think, her primary concern. That makes sense. That does make sense. What would happen, and so, yeah. Yeah.

I'm not mad about that.

Yeah. I'd say go for it. I don't have any red flags on it, as long as it's just the bank account. I mean, it's not like you're being added to debt accounts and things like that. I'd absolutely do it, unless you.

... I was wondering if you had any red flags. This makes a lot of sense. I think there's a lot of wisdom here, given their health and their age. Yeah.

Do they both have wills?

Yeah. Okay. Great. I know they have a trust. Okay.

Great. Great. The thing I like about this, too, Daniel, they came to you on this. You're not nosing into this. There's no tension here.

It just feels right. Yeah. Am I correct? Do you have any misgivings about it? Is that why?

... In other words, why did you call with that question? Which way were you leaning? Well, when I asked her why we were doing it, she said, well, all my friends have done it. It seems to be the thing to do.

I want to support them 100%. It's just that that didn't seem like a great reason to me. I wanted to more to just kind of think through if it makes sense or not, and yeah, that was basically it. Well, there's not really ... Unless you're not trustworthy, there's no downside that I can find.

If I really put myself in your shoes, if my parents were getting up in age,

especially if there was any degenerative disease at play, I certainly would want access to that stuff sooner than later. Just in case. Really putting myself in your shoes, I would do the exact same thing. I don't know that. my parents ...

There's four of us kids. I don't know that they would give all four of us access to their account. Not that we're not all trustworthy, but it's just not necessary. One person kind of heading up the thing makes sense. In your mom's case, I could totally understand that being something that she's concerned about.

I don't know about the thing of, oh, all my friends are doing it. That might be her reason, but my reason would just be, hey, it is important that someone who can really think through things cognitively has access to this money in case something were to happen to her and money was needed. That just makes sense to me. I'm good with it. Yeah.

Thanks for the call, Daniel. Let's go now to Knoxville, Tennessee. Christian is there. Christian, how can we help? Hey.

How are you all doing? Good. How are you, sir? Doing good. Yeah, good.

So to make this short and brief, I'm 25. I got probably about $30,000, $30,000 plus in debt. I'm a tower hand. I make roughly on an eight-hour day, $200 a day, but I got a car loan that I haven't, you know, that I got to pay for. I got medical debt that's in collection.

Here recently, I just had the state of Mississippi come after me for child support, so they're going to be coming after me pretty quick for that.

I'm going to work Monday through Friday. I'm home on the weekends. I'm just trying to figure out some way to basically get more financial freedom and get out of debt and have a better lifestyle, I reckon. Okay.

So let's start first things first. So you're making, what, about $5,000 a month?

$4,500, $4,000?.

I'd say more closer to like $36,000 on a good month. Is that after taxes? Yeah. Okay. And you said you've got around $30,000 of debt.

Do you know the exact number?

No, ma'am. Okay. That's thing one. The first thing here is in order to get organized, to understand what the problem is, we've got to see it for what it is. So when you get off the phone today, I want you to go check all the, you know, log into all those accounts and see exactly what the debt is.

If you could sparse it out, what type of debt is it? You may not know the exact amounts, but can you tell me what type of debt it is?

More like personal loans and stuff like that. for the vehicle, auto loan, you know? And I just know, when I look at it on my, like, on my credit apps and stuff like that, they just say they're in collections and stuff, you know? So is everything in collections? I believe.

so. Okay. So, right now it's just kind of, it's like you've been going along, all this stuff is happening and you're just kind of like letting it take place. The fact that we're not really sure what the debt is, we're not really sure how much the amount is. Do you kind of see this theme playing out here?

Well, I got, I got some of my, some of my debt, mainly the auto loan, and a couple of the, a couple of the health, like hospital loans or hospital collections. I got them on a debt relief program. I pay like $380 a month for them to basically keep it in a savings account and they negotiate prices with them. Hey, Christian, Christian, listen, I'm going to, I'm going to shoot you straight. We're going to get you some help.

He needs one of our coaches, but let me tell you what I think you need to hear. Your hands have not been on the wheel. You, you are just, I don't even know, I don't think it's Jesus. take the wheel, but somebody has taken the wheel and it ain't you. And listen, nothing, nothing against you at all.

I'm trying to be a wake up call to you. You've got, you've got children, you're supposed to be supporting and you're not. And the state's coming after you and everything's just been kind of like, I'm letting life happen to me. And I think you need to start happening to life. So one of the things that you need to start to do is, as Jade said, is get aware of what's going on.

And I want to give you a free session with one of our financial coaches, but you have got to do what they tell you to do. The second thing is you better start making some more money. You need to be working crazy hours with the skillset you have, because that will help you do what Jade's coaching you. You've got to get some more income and start putting it to work. See, I also, the question is, I pay a lot in rent.

I live by myself, I have a service dog, but I live by myself and I live in a three bedroom single wide trailer and I pay $1,200 to live by myself. Change that. Go, live with somebody else. Well see, with the state of Mississippi wanting child support, and I figured later on there might come a child custody case, I'd also need somewhere to call my own with room for my child. Well, we cross that bridge when we get there.

Or go, get you a two bedroom. You getting all this, you getting this mess cleaned up, it's what's going to ultimately even give you a dog in that hunt. But right now you don't have a dog in the hunt. You've got to get your mess cleaned up and you've really got to show that this matters to you. Because right now I hear a guy that's kind of like, if it happens, cool, if it doesn't happen, no big deal.

You've got to go somewhere and find that enthusiasm to really make this happen for yourself. Get out of that debt consolidation thing. That ain't working for you. Hang on the line. We're going to get you a session on us with one of our financial coaches.

Great hour, Jade Warshaw. Thanks to James Childs and the crew. This is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your money life, your work life, and your relationship life. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me.

She's our money guru. I'll be helping you on work-related questions, because that plays into your money big time. 888-825-5225.. Let's go to Tiffany, who joins us in Cleveland, Ohio. Tiffany, how can we help?

Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

Basically, I'm an esthetician, so I have my own spa room. I've been here for two and a half years, and my business is doing great, especially starting off during the pandemic. I have lupus, so this isn't really the greatest job for me, but this is what I love to do, and that's the one thing that I'm actually good at.

When I work myself too hard, it flares up. I have a hard time. My husband and I have been married for eight years, and together four before that. He is a juvenile probation officer with a bachelor's degree. Okay.

I guess my main thing is that's the job that he's been in for 13 years now. Okay. We're seeing a counselor. We're kind of working on things, but I'm finding myself getting frustrated with the fact that he kind of refuses to go and find a better job that would pay better. What's he make?

He makes $2,000 every two weeks. Okay. $4,000 a month after taxes? Yes, after taxes. Okay.

Yeah. I bring in more than that. What do you bring in? On average, like $3,000, $3,500 or so a month. I thought you said he did $4,000..

No, no, no. Sorry.

I'm sorry. $2,464 a month. That's him? $2,464? A month.

Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Sorry.

Sorry. What is his job? again? He's a juvenile probation officer. So he's making- He has a bachelor's degree.

Okay. Is he salary or hourly? He's salary. What's his salary? What is it?

40? 40, 45? Something in that range? Yeah. Yeah.

It's got to be like 40.. Okay. Yes. So then, after taxes and insurance and all that good stuff. Okay.

So this is not about numbers. This entire call is not about numbers. This is about you feeling like he should be, or excuse me, he could be, and he should be making more money. Could be doing more. Yes.

Yeah. And it's creating a lot of tension. Yes. And am I being unreasonable? No.

I don't have a degree. No. I don't- No, but the way you're going about it- Yes. It might be. So what is the narrative?

When you sit down with him, to the best of your recollection, how are you talking to him about this?

I've tried it a couple different ways. I've tried saying, hey, I can help you with your resume. Let's try and see. Or I've tried to say, hey, this is a great time to apply to jobs. They're hiring everywhere.

I have so many contacts. I've got to throw a flag on the play. As long as we get back to what he said. I've got to get that part. What's your flag?

My flag on the play is everything. is you towards him. Yes. And I think that this is just, again, all I can tell you is how I would do it. I feel like, and I know the lupus plays into it, but I feel like when you're talking about our money and our finances, everything's got to be a we conversation.

Everything's got to be, okay, we need to earn more. What does that look like for us to earn more? And I think that's just approach wise. And can you complain to this? But there's something about, and this is a little bit old school, but there's something about when you come to somebody, it almost feels like an attack.

Well, those are questions. Even if you don't want it to be, and come from me in the comments, but even when it's like a lady coming at a guy, about what you're making, you have the right to question it and you have the right to want it to be different. But it's almost like there's got to be some tactfulness getting in there, because it's almost like he's probably like the ego part is feeling it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

And he becomes defensive. He gets defensive first and you can't get anywhere. Okay. So here's what we have to focus on. You can't, you're giving him the what he should be doing and you need to be focusing on what is keeping him from doing anything else.

That's what's holding him back. So what is his language? What are the words? What are the things that he's saying? Back to you.

Well, he's saying, well, I applied for that higher up job before and they told me that they needed to see more from me. I went to college, but it was really easy. I don't think he has a very good self-esteem. He doesn't? No.

No, he doesn't. So what I'm trying to help you understand is, as a spouse, and Jade's right, but we've got to, you've got to understand what he's dealing with. He's not lazy. He's lost. Yeah.

And it presents as lazy. And I'm not saying you called him that. Right. This guy is, he's afraid to stick his hand back up because it's been slapped before. And he's got bad self-esteem issues, which, by the way, go deeper than just what we're talking about.

Yeah. So there's a couple things. And I'm not saying you got to walk around, building him up and saying all these compliments, but to the extent that you can, as his spouse, supporting him in the area of what is holding him back. So you're no longer idea person. And, by the way, I'm not saying your heart's in the wrong place.

It's not. But ideas aren't the fix. You know what the fix is for him? Him having a vision for his future that he actually believes that he can get. Right.

I don't think he has one. No, he doesn't. But he can't. He can't have an idea about the future when he's clouded about the present. He doesn't believe in himself.

He doesn't think he can do much more. Maybe he thinks he missed the boat. Maybe he thinks he's failed too many times. There's something going on. And so, in the moment, it's like driving a car and you hit a patch of fog.

And he's hit a patch of fog. And the only thing you do when you hit fog is slow down, pull over, and wait for the fog to clear. So the only thing you can do is speak love into him, belief into him. I believe in you so much. I hate that it happened to you.

Hey, let's have a dream night where we dream together. And instead of dreaming about his job or dreaming about the career path that he needs to be on, why don't you get him talking about the life that he longs for with you? And when we can get his head into that, then you go, okay, what must be true? What do we need to do collectively together? Yeah, Ken, because that's the big one for me on this.

And I'm not coming for you at all, Tiffany.

I'm just telling you what I heard, okay? And sometimes it's good to have an impartial person, because they can tell you what you heard and say it back. When you initially started the call, because I want to make sure the talk in the house feels right. When you initially started the call, it made it kind of seem like I've got my anesthetician thing, I've got my own room, I'm making $3,500 a month. It kind of made it sound like, hey, I got this going on, and this is the one thing I know how to do, and this is what I do.

But then, when you kind of started talking about him, it was kind of like, and he needs to do this, and he needs to do that. He probably thinks what he's doing is the one thing he knows how to do. So I feel like there definitely needs to be a little bit more balance in how we talk. And when you finally have this conversation, it's what both of us are doing to improve. Because even though you're doing well, there is something that you can do to improve too.

And that's how you keep it balanced skills and not just you pointing a finger at him. Real quick. When a person is clear, Tiffany, they can be confident. So I'm going to give you two tools. I want to give him the Get Clear Assessment.

Will you please gift it to him and say, hey, I think this will help you see more about who you are and where you want to go, and giving the book From Paycheck to Purpose, and then just loving and supporting. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Jade Warshaw. We are here for you, 888-825-5225, taking your money calls and your work-related calls today. 888-825-5225..

Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Fall is a great time of year, but nothing can get you down faster than plumbing problems. Neighborly brand, Mr. Rooter, can handle plumbing emergencies as well as repairs and drain cleaning. Visit Neighborly.com slash Ramsey to find a Mr.

Rooter near you. Awesome. Today's question comes from Madison in California. She says, I work in L.A. as a self-employed fitness model.

Okay. I have worked for the same company on 1099 for seven years. No contract involved. They just keep booking me. The company is looking to hire a full-time model, which would kick my position out.

Ooh. Would you recommend I start looking for other clients at a higher rate to diversify my clientele or work as many hours at my current company to make the most money possible and pay down my debt? Both. Next question. Moving on.

It. really is the situation here that I'm going to do both. I'm starting to look, no question. You want to have your head on a swivel, looking for many opportunities. By the way, she should be doing that as a self-employed?

1099 anyway. 100%. You are living and breathing off that. You and Sam understand that. That's essentially your world.

You guys were running a company. You were the musicians, plus. you were booking. That's right. You're always looking for that next client.

Again, what's your max? How many gigs can you do? I would absolutely be looking and getting new gigs, but I would stay with them until the last possible day when they go, hey, we hired the newer, younger model. That's true. I took some liberty with that one.

I don't know if that's what they're actually doing. As an artist, you do have to diversify. That's the name of the game. You should very rarely ever sign anything exclusive. It sounds like there's no reason that you can't start diversifying your clientele and building up your thing.

Doing all that, you're paying down your debt. I don't see why there's a downside to that. No, not at all. I just got a good idea. In fact, no, it's not a good idea.

It's a bad idea, but I'm going to share it with you. I wonder what the market is for the dad bod fitness model. There's a market for everybody. I'm not in great shape, but I'm not in bad shape. Maybe I could do some of that.

Look at Marcin and commercials on TV. They're regular guys. There's got to be a spot for me to sell pickleball equipment to middle-aged guys. Yeah, you got the one pack.

Not a six pack. That's hysterical. Just got a pack.

I'll tell you. one thing you're not going to do is ever see me modeling this kind of shirt. I see it on camera now and I go, I can't pull that off. I feel like you're modeling it now. You're just wearing it.

Nobody thinks that I would ever wear this shirt in the woods with an axe. No, you're like Hallmark. You're a Hallmark movie. Yeah, that's a stretch. Milwaukee, Wisconsin is where Tanner awaits.

Tanner, how can we help?

I am looking for advice on how to utilize my wife and I's savings to attack some debt we still have while expecting our first child in April. Great, lay it out. Lay out the debt for Jake. We have $47,000 in student loans still and a $15,000 auto loan. Okay, cool.

How much do you have saved? We have $45,000 saved right now. Okay, I like that. You've got this baby coming along. I probably would just honestly push pause on the baby steps until the baby gets here.

Knowing that you've got this debt, knowing that you've got this, savings, keeping in mind once this baby gets here. we're going ham on this. What I would do is stack up as much money as you possibly can between now and April. Magically getting to the number that allows you to pay off your debt. But we're just sitting on it just until the baby gets here, because I just want you guys focused on that.

And then, when the baby gets here, everything is all good. You've paid your deductible. You've paid for the baby to get here. Then take that savings, take all the money you've saved up with it and knock out every penny of this debt. Sound good?

Yeah. And then you're going to build up your 3-6 months of expenses after that. Sure. How much money do you think you could save between now and April? We could probably save.

I don't know.

probably another 3-4,000. before then I'd say. Yeah, then I'm doing that. And your wife, when she has a baby, she does her leave. Does she plan on going back to work?

or what's the plan for that? I guess our plan right now is that my income would be all we'd kind of be living off of, and she actually is not going to be getting any paid leave, so I'll have to account for that as well. So with her income out, it'll be between 45 and 48.

pre-tax is what we'll kind of have to be working with. Interesting.

I'm a little worried about that because right now, with both of you working, there's only 3-4 months. there's only 3-4,000 that you're putting aside to pay off this debt and that's not going to help you clear it by the time you have the baby. Then you're taking this pay cut and I'm worried that you won't have margin to continue paying off the debt. so what's the plan to create that margin? Right.

I guess it would have to be limiting our expenses a little more than we have, and I guess my thought was potentially paying off the rest of our auto loan to free up some more income each month. but I guess I'm not sure if that's advised or not, but that's something I thought of to try to free up more of my income for when that would happen in spring. That's going to get paid for first anyway, because you're listing the debt smallest to largest, unless the student loans are teeny tiny ones and you're doing those first. No. The auto loan is going to be smaller than the two student loans combined.

So that's happening regardless when the baby comes, that $15,000 is gone and then the rest coming out of your savings and the $3,000 and $4,000 is paying off another $34,000 of student loans, right? Yeah, give or take. So you've got $15,000 or $17,000 left of that. so that's the money, that remainder of debt, that $17,000 or so of debt. that's what I want to make sure you guys have the margin to pay down and keep that intensity and go quickly.

Sure, yeah. So when your wife stops working, what chunk of money are you losing? What was she making? $40,000..

That's half your income right there. So what would make me feel better is if tonight, or whatever night this week works for you guys, sit down and really play out these numbers and see how is this really honestly, not just in our minds, because we all have the fantasy of we have a baby and now I no longer work anymore. like for a lot of women, that's what they want to do, and so you really have to look at these numbers and see if they work, because it might just be honestly just that tweak of going hey, after your maternity leave, even though you don't get a, you know it's not paid or whatever after your maternity leave, is it possible to go back and work just for a little while, until we get this debt cleaned up and then we transition to that lifestyle, because that's going to save you a lot of months. I would also like to suggest, Tanner, that if you and your wife have this conversation, Jade's right and we go okay, what's our reality? One of the options is for you to step up and go alright, baby's going to be little.

I'm going to be there, Mama's, more important than you are right now, bro. let me just lay that out for you. I got three. they want mama as teenagers. they still.

my wife knows everything about what's going on in this kid's life. I don't know anything. they just tell her everything, Jade, and so mama's more important Tanner and this season specifically. here's what I'd be thinking how many hours can I work? can I make some extra money to accomplish the same thing?

Jade is saying I just think you got to consider do I bust it, work some crazy hours knowing that I'm making life better for little one and mama, and it's a season. I just have to push that. well, regardless, and sorry, we're belaboring this, but regardless there is something that needs to happen. whether you decide to work more, she decides to go back to work to pay off this debt. there's still this long term picture of okay, you still got to put three to six months.

we still are saving for kid's college and I'm challenging this $48,000 income long term, not just with a side hustle, because you're not going to want a side hustle until you pay your house off. we've got to look at what it's going to look like to get this core income up over the long haul. and is it just you, or is it you guys working together for a short term to accomplish that. great advice and congratulations, young man, exciting. go ahead and let me get a little extra naps between now and when the baby comes, because you also aren't going to be sleeping.

whether you're working extra or not, just part of the deal, it's going to be okay, you'll make it. this is the Ramsey Show.

welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, James Warshaw joins me. the phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225 if you're new to the program. yes, we talk a lot about money, but a big part of your money life is your work life. it is your greatest wealth building tool.

that is your income, and I help folks win in their work life. so we'll take those work related calls, anything you want to talk about on that issue and I promise you Jade's got an opinion on that too, so you get plenty of advice on that. let's go to Mark now in Portland, Oregon. Mark, how can we help?

hello, Mark, you're live. what's happening? alrighty, so I have kind of like a weird multifaceted question. I am a 100% disabled veteran, but I'm totally permanent and I'm still allowed to work, though I have pretty much all my GI bill and I have minimal student loan debt from getting my degree, and I got my bachelors in mechanical engineering.

but kind of the big kind of crux of what I'm wondering is I get a one time federal student loan forgiveness.

because of the nature of my disability from being in the Navy.

so I'm kind of like trying to see is it worth it to just go to grad school and then just max out the student loans and just get them forgiven? it seems kind of sketchy to me. a little bit hold on a second. so what would the masters be in, and why would you get it? it would probably be a masters in mechanical engineering, focused more on building science and the built environment.

so would that set you up for growth financially through promotions? yeah, it would.

because he has the GI bill, because I can use my GI bill that pays for the entire tuition and I get a housing stipend. like if I were to be going in Portland, I would be getting $2,300 a month tax free while in school. and then, on top of the, I had one more question. but go ahead, and then, on top of that, if I were to take out student loans, I could take out up to $65,000 a year for the two years to do that, to kind of offset the loss of income that I have now.

and then another kind of weird aspect to this too is like this would be like if I were to do that, that would be more than what I'm making now with the GI bill and those loans, because there's no taxes associated with that.

and my wife is also in medical school right now too. so just kind of the money is kind of fundable because we're married. but, like realistically, a lot of the money would probably end up going towards, like reducing her loans. so let me get, let me make sure I got my head around this, cause, I'll be honest, like with all the military payments and stuff like that, sometimes it gets confusing. so you've got a little bit of existing student loan debt.

how much is that? $10,000? will the GI bill pay for that? no, but I could get it forgiven right now if I wanted to just one thing at a time, cause I want to help you. but I also want to make sure the people listening understand.

why won't the GI bill cover that? because he's already done that, but the GI bill would cover you going to grad school correct?

so my question is why can't you just use the GI bill to go to grad school if that's what you want to do? and why can't you use the other piece that you had, the federal student loan forgiveness because of your disability to pay off the $10,000? what's wrong with that? yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking. but to me and this is where I'm like kind of the moral and ethical dilemma, like I could do all that, but then I could also take out more student loans and then those would get forgiven, cause it's just a one time deal.

so what you want to do? you want to take out extra student loans, knowing that you can get the federal government forgiveness, yes, and not use those for education. I mean it would be covering my housing expenses and all that like. that's kind of where I thought I heard you say hold on. I also thought I heard you say that would go towards paying off some of your wife's medical loan debt as well.

so you're talking about taking out a student loan to use personally. well, you can use student loans to cover your housing expenses, but didn't you say the GI bill already gave you a stipend for the housing? that's just for like living expenses and other, Portland's like a more expensive city. hold on, hold on cause. I'm hearing you, but I'm also feeling a little the fact that we're going back.

there is a shady quality to it because the GI bill covers what we would call living expenses right, like whether that's rent or other things that goes along with living. but you're saying I would take out student loans to continue to do that. my problem with that is the GI bill saying hey, we have a stipend for that. that's what that money is intended for, the federal student loan. forgiveness, student loans, by definition, should be to pay for education.

so it does bother me. expenses well, no, not necessarily related expenses, yes, but are you living on campus to go to school? no, no, I have a house and a mortgage and a job. so that's what I'm saying. I would stop working to go to school.

I feel like that's a little weird. it's not like you're going to school. you're taking out student loans. this is covering room and board and dormitory, and that I mean they are student loans, which, by the way, I wouldn't tell somebody to take out student loans anyway, but in this case they're forgiven. I just.

so wait a second. pardon us, we're not trying to be dense. it's just the way you set this up. it's strange. well, it's strange because you know it's not right.

that's what I think. so you agree that you just said okay, we finally got it. I didn't mean to lead you there. so my first lawyer moment you don't feel this is right and I don't feel like it's right. it is sketchy.

well then, why are you calling us? asking us if we think you should do something sketchy, because free money makes you do funny things, Ken. it's not illegal, like with my friend. listen to me. first of all, two things.

since you called. now I'm going to tell you what I think it's sketchy, because it's wrong. it's wrong because you're taking out money. that's all taxpayer funded, my friend. I'm paying for that.

Jade's paying for that. I could go around the room. we got some nice people out in the lobby. I don't think they would like to pay for that either. they don't feel good about it.

it's wrong. the reasoning behind it, because I feel like we do have to point out the reasoning. for me, the reasoning is student loans really should be for education and I don't think in your case, I don't think the living expenses are an expense of you getting your education. if you were going to live on campus, if you were staying in a dormitory, if you had to get an apartment in another city to take the classes, then I could see, maybe, but in your case, because this is your situation, I don't see how your personal mortgage has anything to do with you choosing to go to grad school, and so for that reason, I think that's where the ethical barrier is for me. we're agreeing with you.

you said it was sketchy. we think it's sketchy, and let me just say this you're a great American. you served our country disability. because of it, you're a great American.

and you know it's sketchy. so it's up to you, my friend. I don't think you can rationalize this for me or for Jade. well then, trust your gut. look if you were like, if you had said something, I'm just trying to come up with some scenarios.

if you were like, hey, when I was in the military, I'm just trying to come up with a way if you inquired a bunch of other debt because of school. but I just don't see that this just doesn't hit right. you're a good man, a great American. thank you for your service. your gut's right.

we agree with your gut and you've got a bright future in front of you. you don't need this. life's going to get through medical school. you guys are going to be fine. don't try to shortcut it.

you guys are on the right path. thanks for the call. this is the Ramsey Show.

listen, tickets for the live like no one else cruise are selling fast. this is the ultimate debt free vacation and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who have worked their butts off and changed their family trees. we will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities and other special guests. a bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at RamseySolutions.com slash events.

welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, I'm joined by Jade Warshaw. we're here for you, taking your money calls, your work calls today, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

okay. so you said I'm going to do this. I guess we do it in the comment section. this is when we need a. we need a poll feature.

is this real? I didn't clear it by James. he'll talk to me about it. I like this, this is hard hitting. he likes it.

I'm going to set it up quickly. I don't want to eat up a lot of time. that's my little friendly ask.

here. it is fair, fair point. I see what you did there last call.

gentleman served our country was in the Navy, disabled and has the GI Bill, has $10,000 in loans the GI Bill won't cover, but then he also has the ability to get as much as $65,000 in student loans. and he was thinking, hey, should I just take that out, live off of that while I'm getting this Masters blah, blah, blah wife's going to be a doctor. he said he felt sketchy about it and we told him it was sketchy because at the end of the day he wasn't using the money for education, he was using it for other stuff. but during the commercial break you said it does feel sketchy. but as my portion of being a taxpayer because of his service for our country, I would be fine with him doing it.

and I said I'd be willing, because the forgiveness is taxpayer dollars $65,000. and I said, as a taxpayer I would be willing. this guy served our country to the point of 100% disability. I would be willing to give him my portion, which is 0.000000091 of that $65,000. and my question was, if enough other folks in the chat say I'd give him my portion too, then that means what say you?

in the comments. have at it. would you give him your percentage and I'm happy to go on record as saying I'm a bleeding heart conservative. let me define that. that means that I feel really, really bad for his situation and plight, and I'm so grateful for his service, but I am not going to donate my tax dollars to his.

this is such a silly argument. it's about principle, not actual percentage. can you sound stingy? no, sounding principled and it gets called stingy principle works. whether it's stingy or generous, comment away, let the people speak.

you're trying to sway the audience. there's a couple of folks in the audience. look at this guy 100% with me. wait, it's less than a penny. stop, it's a principle.

thank you, Deanna, Deanna is with me. y'all are funny. she's a whole nother situation. that doesn't even count. what does that mean?

drop it in the comments, because I really want to know. would you give your hey penny for this man's $65,000? you reframed it. should taxpayer dollars go to him living off a student loans? no, should not.

I don't care how much the amount is. let the people speak if someone wanted to be generous.

that's all I'm saying. it doesn't mean generous vs stingy. you've reframed it. Christina is up in Salt Lake City, Christina, how can we help? yeah, well, I'm totally with you on that, you who you support, Ken.

thank you very much. I appreciate your vote. so I have. I have a mortgage. it's at.

it was originally $295,000. it's about $280,000 right now and I have PMI, because we really we really needed to move back to where we were, and it was anyway. we also have $30,000 in student loan debt and when my husband and I went to college, it was 3%. so we were in a good time. so the question is should I pay off my mortgage to get rid of the PMI, or should I pay off the student loan?

and my PMI is about $43 a month? the short answer is no. I would not pay off your mortgage first to get rid of PMI. I would walk the baby steps, which is paying off all your debt except your mortgage. so it's almost the complete opposite.

and there's good reason for that. your student loans are debt and it's costing you money every single month. and there's something to be said for when you get on a plan, walking the plan the best way, the way that the baby steps is constructed, is the most efficient way to paying off debt, saving money and building wealth. and it's not just me saying that this plan has been around for over 30 years and millions of people have walked it this way. so the thing about it, Christina, is, everybody out there goes.

my situation is a little bit different and because my situation is like this, I think it would work better if I did it like this. now, the fact of the matter is, you can get off this phone, you're grown, you can do whatever you want, and I'm not going to be mad at you. we're both going to sleep good at night. but if you're asking my opinion, I do think that the best use of your money is to get these student loans off your plate free and clear. I think this 20% PMI thing, it's just like a bad song that won't get out of your head.

it's cool to save money, but in your world it's really not that big of an important thing, because once you get this debt paid off, once you get 3-6 months saved, once you start investing 15%, you're going to be on such a great trajectory and by then, probably the amount of money that you've paid off on your mortgage I don't know what your payment is, I don't know what your interest rate is, but you might be close to knocking that PMI out anyway, because once you hit it, it's off. once you get to that 20%, it's out, and if you're not there by then, then you will be sooner than later. does that make sense? yeah, we hit the interest rate at 4.8, so it's not great, but we just thought that $500 a year was kind of high to pay MPMI. it is, but you're going to be there again, everybody's got that.

why I'm the exception to the rule and my point is, if you walk through the plan, ultimately you're going to have more money to throw towards this and you're going to have the peace of not having debt, having your savings. do you have any savings 3-6 months?

we have about $7,000 in savings exactly, so my point in this is I think you're trying to do the right things, but I think you're trying to do the right things in the wrong order and at the end of the day, you still have debt, you don't have quite enough savings and you've got PMI. so let's start doing this stuff in order so that we're not kind of. I put a little money here, I put a little money there, I put a little money there and you look up and it's like yeah, but I still have debt and I still don't have savings. you're not accomplishing what, at the end of the day, we all want, which is that peace with our money. and you get that peace when that debt is paid off, when you've got the right amount of savings, because for you guys, $7,000 is not enough.

and then, at the end of that road, the final thing is we're paying off the mortgage with intentionality, and if you want to go intensely for a while to get rid of that PMI, that's your business, but does that make sense for you? Yeah, no, that's fine. I just wanted to know what you guys thought, because we aren't full disclosure, we're not fully following the baby steps, but, like we have, all of our cars are paid off, our campers paid off, all of them paid off. That's awesome, but I do think that.

I have an analogy in my brain. I don't know that it's appropriate. I'm kind of intrigued now. Well, it's like, if I'm married and I got this from my pastor if I'm married, I'm 100% committed and it gets real funky when I say hey, I'm committed on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, but Sunday is when I get into it, like that doesn't work. he'd be like, this is not a full commitment, and so we would not be able to have the marriage that we should have, because I'm not fully committed, and I think it's the same way with this plan.

when it comes to your money, when you commit to this plan and you go all in on it, you get the full benefit of the plan, and it's all that it could be and all that it should be. but when you take Sundays and you're like on Sundays, that's when I I don't know, use my credit cards and on Sundays, so it's like you get some of it, you're paying off the cars, you're doing that. that's great, I would love for you to go fully committed to this plan and see what happens next. Great stuff, you said in that call, it's like a bad song. you can't get out of your head, my nomination, you can't touch this, MC Hammer.

great hour, Jade, James, our fearless leader, and you, the people. this is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, it's where we help you win with your money and with your work and with your relationships, all of those somehow are very interconnected, and we want to help you win in all three areas, because that means you're winning in your life. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225 that's the phone number to jump in, I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour, and we are here for you. so let's get to it, we're going to, this is always exciting, I always love when they tell us on the screen where people are from, because it gives you an idea like the world's a really big place. and we've got Janae on the line, but I think this is Missoula Montana, is that right, Janae?

Missoula, Montana, yes, it's a hard S, not a soft S, correct? I got it, Missoula, Montana. it's like a Z. how can we help? so I am a relatively new widow, and I had a series of unfortunate events this past year and I resorted to racking up credit card debt, which I knew was a big no-no, but I'm living on half of the income that my husband used to bring in and now I'm backpedaling because I can't pay the debt off, and so I am either contemplating credit card, like debt consolidation, or just closing the accounts out and just seeing if the credit card companies will work with me.

I'm very limited on the income that I can make and so I just don't know what the best option to do is. What happened? So my husband was ill and had a very rare tumor that the NIH was studying, and he developed COVID and essentially died from COVID, but he had COVID-19.. I'm sorry, so sorry for you. So, yeah, I was a stay-at-home mom, he was the breadwinner, for, you know, 21 years of our life with four kids, so Wow, I'm sorry.

Any life insurance? No. No life insurance, no savings, no 401k. I'm sorry. Oh my gosh.

I do want to say that we hear this a lot, like something traumatic happens and there is more spending. that happens in a lot of cases after that, whether it's just out of emotional spending or whether it's truly, like, I haven't figured out how to make life tick without this major breadwinner, and in your case, because there was no insurance and because you've got four kids, that does put a wrench on it. How old are the kids? So my oldest is 20, and so he is not really in my household, but not directly in my financial household. I have a 17 year old son, a 12 year old daughter, and a 10 year old daughter, and I don't have a traditional income.

I rely on death benefits and the reason, my two girls have health issues, and so one of them takes a medication. that's like $9,000 a month, so I have to rely on Medicaid. So my income is very limited as to what I can bring in to have her medicine covered. Yeah, so let's dive into that. So what is the limit in order to get the medication covered via Medicaid?

What's the limit on you financially to what you could actually earn? $26,000 a year. Isn't that crazy? Yeah, it's keeping you in poverty. Let me ask you this.

The two girls and their health issues, is that also keeping you at home? It would not allow you a traditional, let's say that we could get child care, we got a great job with great benefits that help with it. Let's just assume all of that. Is that even possible for you to be able to work outside of the home? It is possible.

I do clean homes, so I have a couple of homes that I clean a couple times a week.

to get some cash. But you're keeping it low on purpose. But you're capped. I am capped. I am capped out to what I can bring in, and so my kids go to the doctors quite often and so I'm multiple times a week, my schedule kind of has to be flexible, but if I could find a job that I could get this all taken care of, that would be amazing.

Can we play out some real numbers to see what it would take? Have you done that? I mean, I don't want to do work. you've already done, but what if we sat? Yeah, go ahead.

I was going to say, what if we sat, so one child's medication is $900, did you say a month? $9,000.. Oh, $9,000.. Girl. Okay, I feel it.

I feel it. That's $9,000 a month, and then, do you have a mortgage? I do not. I rent. What's your rent?

It's currently $950, but it's going to be going up at the first year to $1250.. Can I ask a question again about this medicine? If you had regular insurance, what portion of the $9,000 would the regular insurance cover? Whenever we did some research, because my husband offered a great job offer years ago in the marketplace and stuff like that, we could not find an insurance company that would cover the medicine, because it's human growth hormone, and she takes a lot of it, and so it's kind of one of those tricky medications that I don't know. the ins and outs of it.

I just know whenever we contacted health insurance companies about three years ago, we could not find one to where the rate that he would be getting would even be beneficial for us. I see. What was he making before he passed? $48,000 a year. How did Medicaid allow that?

That's what I'm wondering. My son was in our home, and he was a minor, and then my husband was in our home. They go by how many people are in your home, and now that my son is no longer a minor and my husband is deceived, my family went from six people in my home to technically four people in my home. They deduct about $10,000 per person who is no longer considered under your household.

I see. I get it. The math. This is so maddening to me that you get penalized. You get some help, and then you get penalized because $9,000 is extraordinary.

Even if you were making $150,000 a year, that's almost all your take-home. It just eats up so much.

You've got debt. How much credit card debt have you racked up? Just under $20,000.. I had a master moved at the beginning of the year, and that went septic, and that was a domino effect. I was not able to do my normal house cleaning for about five months.

I just started. I was like, well, I'll just use the credit card and I'll work extra. It just was too big of a problem for me to get my feet back under. I have not been using the credit cards for months now. Does Medicaid cover the entire amount of the medicine?

Yes. My two daughters both have open-heart surgeries, multiple ones. They cover 100% of all of their medical needs, medications, surgeries. Even if we have to travel to Seattle for their surgeries, they also provide travel assistance. I'm out of pocket for my children's medical needs is zero.

I pay nothing. I would want to look into other, even if they're outside insurances, anything else that might have the ability to cover this. You living on $26,000 a year with four kids, I don't see how that's sustainable long-term. I would just want to get as much information as I can. At the very least, can we connect her with Xander and see what the heck could be out there that could help offset this $9,000 a month that you're paying.

Hey, I wish we could have been way more help to you. I feel like we spent more time learning than helping. Here's what we're going to do. We're going to get you connected for free to one of our best financial coaches here in the building and they're going to walk you through what you can do. Hang on the line.

We'll take care.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jay Warshaw joins me. Hey, if you're new to the program or you've been listening for quite some time, we would love for you to help us spread the word. If you're enjoying the program, like the videos you're watching on YouTube.

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Let's go to Houston, Texas, where Kristen awaits. Kristen, how can we help?

Hey, glad to be on. I have a question for Baby Steps 4 and 5, primarily. Okay. Really, on how to actually make them both happen at the same time. Okay.

Is it just Baby Steps 4 and 5 or Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6?? 4, 5, and 6, but I mean, we can't afford to pay off our home early yet, so we're working towards getting up to that 15% reach. Right now, we're doing about 11.5% of our income for retirement. We're also putting some for the kids and we're kind of worried that we're not going to have as much as we want saved up for the kids, because we and our kids are really young. Right.

So we have a lot more time before retirement versus when the kids are going to go to college. I mean, our daughter just turned 7 and she's going to graduate high school at 17.. We have 10 years left of that, but we still have 35 plus years for retirement. Let's work through these percentages a little bit so I can understand where your money's going. So you're completely debt-free, except the mortgage.

Let's say there's 25% that's going to your mortgage. Is it that or less or more?

I think it's just under with the mortgage, property taxes and insurance, I think it's about 28.. Okay, so that's a little higher. That's okay. Then let's say you're giving 10%? Yes.

Okay, so there's 35%. and let's say 15% is supposed to go to retirement. So we're at 50% of our income, in your case, 53%. What's happening to the other 50% of your income? Because that's assuming you're investing.

Groceries and the kids. How many kids? Activities. We have two kids. Okay, two kids.

So four people in the house. What's the income, combined income for you and your husband?

I just started a part-time job, so we don't know how much that'll end up being over the year, but my husband makes $115 a year. Okay, what I'm going to propose?

is that something in your budget, the other 50%, something there is inflated, because essentially what you would have if you're not, I think you said you're at 11%, so the other 54% of your budget is inflated somewhere. So are you on an every dollar budget? Yes. We've been using every dollar, and I do know one area is inflated, and that is our property taxes. We just bought this house, and they didn't purchase the value, and so that should be going down a few hundred dollars a month.

Oh, okay, so that's good. So that's going to help you get from 28 to 25.. Yes, and so in January, how much of this should I dedicate to actually getting 15% to retirement? Do like 13 and a half, and then have a little bit more for the kids' college fund. I would do the 15% no matter what, because the time is going to come, no matter what, when you have to retire, right?

What I would start talking about with the kids, how old are they? We have an almost six-year-old and a seven-year-old. Okay, so you've got a little bit of time there, and it's not to say that you can't put any money aside, because again, with Baby Step 5, we're not saying it has to be this specific amount. I mean, if you can get 50 and 100 dollars in there every once in a while, that's something, but I want you to get to this 15% as quickly as possible and then, as things start to change with your property tax or whatever the thing you said that was inflated. right now, you're going to start to see a difference.

That $300 to $400 is a big deal, but I really want you going through your budget with a fine-tooth comb, because there might be some other areas that, for you, seem normal, but when you really start to peel back and go, okay, what's a bigger priority for me to do this, or for me to make sure I'm getting at least $100 a month into a $529, right? And then the thing with the mortgage, you might, right. now, again, it's about being intentional. There doesn't have to be a layer of intensity to that whatsoever at this point, so if you had,

ideas that you were going to be paying double payments in this season, maybe you're not because of the age of your kids, but there will be a season where you will be able to do that, but I really want you to look at this in term of percentage, because this plan works for a reason and it works because of those percentages, so you've got to really look and say, okay, what's the 50% going to? Is somebody in private school? Is there something about your budget that kind of feels like, oh, maybe that's what it is, other than that property insurance for $300 more? Well, so we've had a three-month emergency fund for a long time, but we have been working towards the full six months. Right now, we're at about a four-and-a-half month, but we are still contributing a few hundred dollars every month.

There it is. And we have been putting $100 between the two kids every month for... Wait a sec. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

This is it. This is the money. This is where your money is. You're doing the most. You're doing all of it.

Should I pull back on the emergency fund then and be okay with the four-and-a-half months? No. I mean, if you guys want to... I'll do what you think is... If you used some of it and you need to replenish it back to six months, go on and replenish it.

I want you to get back to 15%. Whatever it takes you to get to 15% investing, and if you want to replenish your savings back to six months... If you're putting $100 a month in your 529, that's great. The biggest thing with that 529 is projecting out to the future and really understanding what's actually going to be there when your kids get to college, so you can start having those conversations. now.

I think you're doing better than you think you are. I think the couple hundred that you're putting aside to try to replenish this emergency fund, plus the overage that's going on with the property tax right now, that could be $600.. That's a lot of money, right? Yeah. It just seems like you're kind of in this limbo phase.

Once that fire goes out, then you're going to be like, oh, there's the money. That's where it went. I'm hearing a mindset, Kristen, where you're just feeling almost guilty that you're not doing as much as you'd like in each step. The steps aren't a taskmaster. They are a guide.

You move within the steps when you need to. It feels like you're beating yourself up a little bit, and you shouldn't be. You're doing enough. You're fine. If you want to replenish or boost the baby step three, then do that.

To Jade's point, we just want you getting on a consistent investing, but don't be beating yourself up over this. You're not doing anything wrong. You're doing right. You're just doing a lot. Does that help?

Definitely. It's always nice to have another perspective, because when you're in it, you kind of see all the flaws and not the strengths necessarily. I just want your mindset right now to go, we're doing a great job. We're ahead of just about everybody in America. Have you seen the data?

Give yourself a break. Focus on the priorities, not the productivity part of this. I think we get hung up on, well, Dave says, Jade says, baby step four, five, and six at the same time. Wait a second. Life happens.

The steps are there for a reason. There's a reason why three is before four. In the point of four, five, and six, obviously... That was brilliant what I just said. I just heard how silly that sounded.

What did you say? There's a reason why three is before four. The point is, the emergency fund is more important. Yes, thank you, Big Bird. The emergency fund is more important than the 15%.

That's right. There's a reason why we have it there. That's right. If you feel comfortable with six months, then that's what you do. Then get back up.

I guess that's the point. Method to the madness. Don't get hung up on how well I'm doing in each thing. at the same time. It's what matters most to me within the steps.

Yes. Kristen, deep breath. Get off this phone call going, I'm doing great. I'm going to continue to do great. I'm going to be fine.

Yes? Yes, and I'll have to have my husband hear that, too. That's right. Y'all are killing it! This is great, Kristen.

This is on YouTube right now, right? Yes. You could just have him get to this moment and go, look at what Jade said, look at what Ken said, look at the guy in that goofy shirt. You've got to listen to that guy. What's his name?

His name is Michael. Michael! You're doing fine. Relax. Michael and Kristen.

Take Kristen out for a steak dinner, man. I know, that's right. Y'all been working hard. Come on. You guys are crushing.

Alright, don't move. Quick break. We're back with more of your calls. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Helping you win with your money, your work and your relationships, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Diana is on the line in Providence, Rhode Island. Diana, how can we help? Hi, I just had a question about a car lease. Okay.

My lease is up in May. I owe approximately $18,000 on it. I was wondering if I should go trade it and buy a car?

In May? Or sell the car back and go, buy and take a hit for $2,000 and buy a car for approximately $8,000..

Okay. Walk through that again. So, one option is to buy it at $18,000? Correct. And the other option is to come out of pocket for $2,000 and just get out of the lease?

Yes. And then you go, do you have some money set aside? Because you said buy a car for $8,000. so that means you've got the $8,000 set aside. if you do that?

I was going to do a home equity line of credit. No.

Okay.

Let's look at this. Do the entire advice, singing, please, like. it's a musical. You don't want me to do that, Ken. Well, maybe you do, but I'm not going to.

So, the first question is what other debt do you have? I have about $38,000 in credit cards. $38,000 in credit cards. And I own a home and I owe about.

$230,000.. $230,000 on the home. Do you have any money set aside? Do you have any cash that you could get your hands on? Stocks?

Some money? Nothing. What's your income? Well, no. Don't pull out of your retirement.

$105,000 a year. $105,000 a year. So, you've got some money coming in. It's just you? Are you married?

Do you have kids? I have a kid. Okay. So, here's the thing. I'm not opposed to you getting out of this car and taking a hit if I felt like you could take it without going into debt, to cover another car, because you need a car.

It's you and your 10-year-old.

You've got this $18,000, that if you turned around and bought the car, and then you've got the $38,000 of debt.

All right. So, let me just jump in really quick. while you're thinking here. How would you come up with the $2,000 out of pocket? Or, in other words, how long would it take you to scrape the $2,000 together so that when you did turn in a lease, you had it?

Probably two months. Okay. How's your credit?

That's the problem. I just did a debt consolidation program, and they hadn't paid any of my credit cards for approximately six months, so my credit just dropped. Okay. And, you know, in some cases, it's like if you have an $18,000 car loan, you know, and you're trying to get out of it, or a car loan in general, we might tell you to get a small loan for the difference. so you can get out of it and get just a cash car, $5,000, something like that, so at least your debt's going from $18,000 to $5,000, right?

In this case, that might not be the case because of your credit.

Do you drive a lot in that car? Yes. Here's the thing. The $18,000 car, with your income, the fact that you have an $18,000 car that you would purchase, or that you'd be, you know, trying to get the lease off of, doesn't bother me as far as the price of it, but because you've got this other almost $40,000 in debt, I kind of hate that for you. How quickly could you pay off...

Let me look at this. Your credit cards in the debt snowball, how many are there? Is it just one or two, or is it lots of little ones?

It's about... There's eight. There's eight. And do they all... Are they all less expensive than the $18,000 car?

The car, the $18,000?? Combined? No, individual. Are they all less expensive? Are they in the debt consolidation program, though?

That's what I'm not understanding.

Yes, but I was going to try to get a personal loan and pay them off.

Okay. I think we're trying to look for an out, but at the end of the day, you've just got that debt, and you're just going to have to pay it off, because you don't have the money to get a less expensive car. You don't have the way to get a loan to do that, and you don't have the credit to do it. That's my question, Jade, so I've got a question for you and Diana. If it's going to take you two months, give or take, to come up with the $2,000 to get out of the lease, how long would it take you...

Is it fair to say that you could, let's say six to eight months from now, have about $6,000 to $8,000?? If you started working extra hours, you started doing everything you can, here's where I'm going. That's right, because how much time do you have before you have to make this decision?

Oh, you've got time. Okay, so here's where I'm going. I'm working like a maniac, and I'm going to save up money, I'm going to get out of the lease, and I'm going to fork over the $2,000, plus I'm going to have about $6,000, and I'm going to get myself a decent car. That's right. And it's not great, Diana, but it'll get you from A to Z while you get out of this situation.

Yeah, a crucial piece of information is you've got time. I'm thinking we're deciding today. You've got time. So get $6,000.. As much as you can save up.

Yeah, because watch what happens. What's the lease right now? What are you paying every month on that lease? $375.. So we get a $375 raise in about six months.

Now the $375 goes into paying off. So you can get out of this with $105,000.. Listen, you can find a way, Mama Bear. You don't have a baby. You've got a 10-year-old, so we figure out some super cheap child care, you're working like crazy.

Let's see if we can make an additional $50,000.. I'm going to put that challenge out there. Could you make an additional $50,000 in 2024?? I think the answer is yes. Wow.

And if that whole $50,000, minus taxes, of course, goes toward getting out of debt, I think you're free quick. Well, at the very least, if she has $105,000 income, they can live on $50,000 of it. That's exactly right. Where are you cutting expenses? What are you selling?

How much are you working? I think you can get out of this, but I would definitely get out of the lease. Okay. That's good. I appreciate it.

You helped greatly. I owe you guys. You're awesome. By the way, I love that Rhode Island accent. Can I just say that?

Yeah. When she started talking about the car, I was like, yeah! I wish I talked like that. I got this goofy southern thing going on. I like that Rhode Island accent.

That's fantastic. Hey, how about our backyard? We take calls from local. Ashley's calling from Nashville. What are you talking about?

You have no idea what he's talking about. Folks, I try to keep her on her toes. Let's go to Ashley, who's calling from Nashville.

Hi, everybody. I'm very excited. So, quick question. My fiancé, his company, just decided to give a 12% contribution directly to the 401k, so that he needs to contribute the additional 50% or additional 3% with that. Is it a continuous match?

Or they just did this one-time thing? No. They're going to continue doing it as he's working there, so 12% every single year is not a match. You know, when it comes to Baby Step 4, and for those listening, Baby Step 4 is putting 15% monthly into retirement. The reason for that, and I kind of want to get to the reasoning first, and then it'll inform why my answer is what it is.

The reason for that is we want you building the muscle of investing your own money into retirement. Because he's at this job now, but let's just say on down the line, he decides to go work someplace else, and they don't do that match, or they don't do that contribution over the course of the year. You want to know that, no matter what, you've built it into your lifestyle, and you've built it into your budget. We just invest, and we invest 15%, and this is off the gross number, and that's just our habit in life. So, yes.

All of that to say, yes, I still want you investing your 15%, and think of any match or additional contribution or anything like that. That's just icing on a very delicious cake. You know what I'm saying? Making me hungry now. That's great that they're matching that much, or that they're contributing that much.

It sounds like even regardless of what you put in, so that's really good. Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much, Ashley, for the call. All right, so we've got to do these things called commercial breaks, but hang on, because we have another segment coming your way with some great calls. She's Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman, and this is The Ramsey Show.

After these messages, we'll be right back.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 21-31..

The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but victory belongs to the Lord. And then our quote from the Iron Lady herself, Margaret Thatcher, you may have to fight a battle more than once to win it. Love it. Isn't that true? All right, let's go to Irvine, California.

Bonnie is awaiting. Bonnie, how can we help? Hey, Ken. Hey, Jade. It's such an honor to be speaking with both of you today.

Thanks so much for taking your time to speak with me. I'm a little nervous, so sorry. You're doing great. That was quite an intro. You're crushing it.

What's up? Thank you. I have a question regarding completing a bachelor's degree. I have an associate's degree, which I earned in 2020, and I've been working full-time in insurance since then. I recently applied to a four-year university, and I got accepted.

And I'm just having gold feet, and I think it's not the right decision for me to go, based on my finances. Okay, let's see if there's any evidence to back up your gut. How about that? Right? Absolutely.

All right. So, you don't think it's a wise decision, because your finances paint the financial picture for us. Well, you know, overall, my husband and I are doing really well. We make roughly about $125,000 before taxes. Okay.

And the only debt that we have is $3,000 in credit cards, which is just mine. And then we also have about $33,000 left on a loan from his parents that they provided a down payment on our home for, so paying them back for that, and then roughly about $323,000 off on a mortgage. Okay, so $36,000 of consumer debt. And how much is the schooling going to cost if you were to do this? So, it would be about $16,000..

Total? And that would be going full-time for the next two and a half years, total, yeah. And that means you're not working in the insurance job. It would be, actually. Oh, you could?

Yeah, I would be working full-time, only 35 hours a week, trying to tackle both, yeah. Okay. Yeah, the reason that I'm getting cold feet is because there are personal reasons that I want to complete this, but ultimately, I just feel guilty, spending $16,000 to complete school when I don't know if it's necessarily going to get me ahead in life. Well, that was my next question. I love the personal reasons, not going to question those at all, and because of that, I'm going to say, I think you should do it, but I think you should do it later, not now.

Absolutely, yeah. I don't think you should feel guilty about considering it, and I don't think this ought to be about guilt, this just ought to be about, you know what, it matters to me to get the degree one day, but I'm going to do it when I can, and when I can is certainly after we pay off $36,000 in consumer debt, and then get to the point where I can cash flow, or I have saved it up to then be able to do it, and I think you, the degree's always going to be there. And I think you should put it off. That's what you're thinking and feeling, and I couldn't agree more with your feelings here. Yeah, it's definitely coming from wanting to plan ahead and set things right for the future, like my husband, and I really want to start a family in the next couple of years, but I'm just, you know, kind of reverse engineering it and going, well, if I'm going to put all this time and effort into completing school, you know, I could be spending just a small amount of time getting a part-time job, maybe making $20 an hour, and, you know, I was doing the numbers, and I'm like, I could, you know, I could earn $16,000 in one year versus paying it over two and a half years.

I would just, I'd press pause.

Not the delete button, the pause button. It's going to be there. You good with that? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, you're awesome.

I think it's simple. Press the pause button. Yeah, you bet. Thank you for the call. I love it, love it, love it.

Let's go to Mel in Salt Lake City. Mel, how can we ... Hi. Hi, how are you, Mel? I'm good.

My question is pretty straightforward. Should we sell our current home to pay off the debt that we have and move into my parents' home who are going on a church mission for a couple years, or should we keep it and rent it out? We're feeling a little bit tight because we're about negative $1,400 every month. That's like, earlier this year, we cut out all of the extras

and... Why are you negative? $1,400 every month?

That's just like basic needs. I mean, this is like basic necessities. Okay, so you aren't making enough money. Yeah, what's the income between you and your husband?

About $100,000.. He makes about $85,000 and I make about $12,000.. And how much debt do you guys have? Total, $180,000.. Okay, $100,000 bringing in...

Yeah. Hold on, she was about to give us something. $130,000, what? Well, I was going to say the monthly payment for just loans, we have about $60,000 in student loans, $53,000 in car loans, and $60,000 in credit cards. The monthly payment for all of that is $26,087..

Okay, the cars, $53,000 in car loans?

Yes. We got to get out of these cars.

So do we... I mean, we owe $26,000 and $27,000 on 2016 cars that are 125,000 miles, one of them. One of the reasons... That was one thing, we had car problems all year, so we just put into that car almost $10,000. this year.

The transmission had to be completely rebuilt. So they're not worth anything? Is that what you're telling me? No, they're worth. I mean, we could...

So if you sold the $26,000 one, what's it worth on Kelly Blue Book?

It's in the low 20s. Okay, like $21,000, $23,000?. So are you like maybe $3,000 upside down? Probably. Okay, and then what about the $27,000 one?

That one's in good shape. We could break even on it. Okay, break even on that. How quickly could you scrape... Could you guys live on one car for a while?

We have five kids. You've got five kids. Okay, that's something in the equation here. Here's a super quick question. I'm going to get in and get out on this one.

If you all sell your house, clear off all this debt, and go live rent-free with mom and dad, or not at their house while they're on this mission, it may bail you out, but it's not going to change your life. if you guys don't fix what got you into this mess. You guys are living way, way out of bounds. Yeah, I think that you guys can make this happen, and I think that whether or not you live in mom's house for a while or not is kind of besides the point. I want you to look at this situation and see where the problem is.

The problem is you keep taking on debt. You've got student loans. You've got cars you can't afford. I think you're going to need to feel the pain a little bit on this thing. I would get rid of one of the cars.

I'd take the hit on the $3,000.. Scrape up $3,000 as quickly as you can, and get out of that one and scrape up a little bit more money. One of you is going to be driving a beater for a while. Then, I'm going to look at this $100,000 income that you're making, and I'm going to look for any way that you guys can add to that income over this period of time. I don't really like the idea of you guys renting out your personal home.

I don't know how long your family is going to be on the mission field, but if they should come back sooner, suddenly it's like, okay, we've got to take these folks out. I would either sell it or stay, but don't rent it. Exactly. That's creating more problems for you guys. Your house, what's it worth?

About $800,000.. $800,000?. $200,000 equity. $200,000 equity. When did you buy it?

About two years ago. What does your husband want to do?

He doesn't want to sell the house. I would not sell it. I wouldn't. I would work through this debt. I think you guys can do it, and I think it's going to teach you a really great lesson.

at the end. I think there's going to be some pain involved here, but I think that you guys have the ability to get your income up. $100,000.

with $180,000 of debt, I think that there's some real moves that you guys can make to even this out. The average person is getting out of debt in two years and under. I think you guys can be done with this in three years maximum, if you guys work hard. This is up to you guys how quickly you work this thing. What can each of you guys do to bring in some extra money?

I feel like I'm maxed out, honestly, with time and going to kids. He also does a bunch of side hustling. He does music work. He does voiceover, interpreting. That's aside from his 85 job.

Getting these cars cleared out and you each getting a couple of beaters is going to be the ticket to you guys. cleaning this up super duper, fast. That's thing one on the list, and then we're just going through those baby steps, man. Thank you for the call, Jade Warshaw. Great show.

Thanks to everybody in the booth keeping us on the air. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.