"Jennifer Garner"

Hey, guys, listen, I'm super high-energy this morning.

I'm high-energy.

You think you're high-energy?

I'm high-energy.

No, I'm probably the highest I've ever been.

I just got a call from the high-energy institute.

Guys, I shot the coffee into the back of my knee. I'm on fire right now, okay?

Listen, I just pulled my car here. I didn't even have time to let it drive.

You didn't even turn it on?

I just had two pints of Haagen-Dazs, and I'm, like, guys, flying.

Let's make sure we get this episode started. What? We still got the gas.

You already said it. Welcome to SmartLess.

Smart. Less.

Smart.

Less.

Smart.

Less.

Jay, I don't know if you want to start, or I'm going to start.

Wait, are you retiring from SmartLess?

No, no, no.

I'm making an announcement right now.

I'm not. Wait, why are you?

Well, we do have a very great replacement waiting whenever you're ready to. It doesn't have to be now. It can be next year or whenever.

I feel fucking sideswiped. I feel sideswiped right now.

I just want to give him a heads up.

You're not retiring. Okay, no. What I was going to say was, Jesus.

Sorry.

How excited we are for Shaunie winning the Tony.

Oh, well, there's that. I mean, looking forward. Shaun Hayes, you won. Yeah, Shaun Hayes won a fucking Tony.

Tony. Best actor for Goodnight Oscar.

We don't have that level of class here.

I know. It's so.

That's very nice.

Very nice. Remember when you said you were going to go do this play in Chicago, an idea that you had. You got this great writer, and gosh, you're scared, and you don't know how it's going to go.

Doug, what's his name?

And then it went well, and you got great reviews, and there was a possibility of it going to Broadway. You weren't sure.

Remember, you and Scotty were in that shitty apartment in Chicago, right above the fire station? Yeah. Yeah, the police station or whatever.

Oh, it's got such a deal on it. And you were so scared. And then you go to Broadway, and you're not sure.

Quick name of the theater, Jason. Name of the theater.

Tabasco. The spiciest seats in the West.

But they give him the Drama Desk and the Outer Circles, but the Tony, he's not going to get. Oh, man.

But yours is spelt with an I, right? And it's dotted with a heart, right? I mean. It's more of a certificate than an award.

The Tony, Tony, Tony's.

Tony, Tony, Tony's done it again. But no, that's very kind of you.

Sean, fucking congrats, man.

That's very sweet. You guys already have showered me with so much love and praise in our texts and things. So, but thank you. And it is wild. It's wild to, Jason, what you just said about doing, you know, the week we shot that documentary, or the two weeks we shot that doc series that it's now airing.

Where would we see that? By the way, if somebody wanted to see that. If somebody wanted to see that doc, where would they go? Streaming, Max. What's Max?

No, no, you're learning. We arrived, we did those shows on the weekend, and the next day you flew to Chicago. That's right.

And the next day I flew to Chicago to do it.

After the last show.

But, Jay, you were sleeping or something, and I asked Will to run lines with me.

Yeah. Oh, really?

And Will ran lines with me on the couch, and I was like. Yeah. That's so bizarre to me. Bizarre. And then.

That's why I got the special.

You got a certificate?

I'm on the Tony, yeah. They engraved just a little spot.

Just look underneath it, Sean.

It says ran lines with.

Will's name sketched into it.

It is. Wow.

But we just could not be prouder. And the fact that we've both seen it. Yeah. And can attest to its quality is also.

Well, and I, you know, you get so nervous when you get up there, and you receive an award, and you forget to thank people. And I really honestly forgot to thank two of my best friends in the whole world, you guys.

Oh, wait, what? Oh, my God.

And my family, too.

No, I was actually taken by how, together, you were up there. Me, too. Oh, my God.

I was a wreck. I was shaking.

Because you seemed nervous at all.

I love when you said Scotty. It's Scotty, right? And you were so funny. Sean.

And the only one liner I had ready, should I had one was, this has got to be the first time an Oscar won a Tony. Yes. And in the room there, eh, didn't land so well. It was like.

On TV, it played great. So who cares about the room, right?

But the rest.

Listen, I was watching that thing, and I was just thinking, you see all these theater people in there, and they got there in the biggest night. And I thought, man, this is, this is showbiz for losers. You know.

Will texted that. Will was texting me in real time while he was watching the Tony Awards, saying this is the first time I've ever watched the Tony Awards because.

And you better win.

But it was wild when you know, it's that also when they call your name, it's that weird thing where you watch TV your whole life, whether it's Oscars, Emmys, Tonys, whatever, and you watch other people walk up there and you're like, oh, that's so nice. I'm a big fan, or I love that show or that whatever, that actor. And then when you're while I was walking up the steps, it was like, I'm not supposed to be walk like other people walk up the steps. That's supposed to be you.

Didn't you get used to that walk with the was a half a dozen Emmys you've won? I won Globe SAG Awards, all these other things.

I was just thinking, I was just thinking between us, between us, we've won a handful of Golden Globes and Emmys and SAGs, and Tony. I mean, that's amazing, isn't it?

We didn't have to be an EGOT group.

No, but between the three of us, we won all these. I mean, I haven't won any of them, but, but you guys. and then I, but, but between the.

three of us, you ran lines with both of us.

I've run line with both of you guys and you've both been one. So yeah. If you look at my thing, like, yeah, technically I've never won an award, but you know, that's.

we won. Hey, we all three won a Webby.

We did.

We did. We did.

A few of them.

We did. A few of them.

Guys. Thank you so much for saying that. Truly. Truly. Thank you for all the love and support you've shown me and the show by talking about it on the podcast.

No, we love you. And anyway, we, we had to, we had to talk about it because it was just, uh, it was too important. And, uh, and now we can get to, uh, our regular scheduled program, which is, uh, the fantastic Jennifer Garner episode.

Can't wait. Welcome to smart list.

Welcome to smart list.

Welcome to smart list. That's very sweet. You guys. Thank you.

Johnny, are you happy that we're on a day? two of your, uh, days off?

Yes.

This is your weekend right now. Monday, Tuesday is your weekend.

It is Monday, Tuesday is my weekend.

How's your eyeball? Have you been performing?

I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to go back after we're done here. I'm going to go back and see if it, my retina is detached. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah. But did he, did. he restick it last week?

Well, I don't know. Do you got, we talked about vasovagal, right? Where you get sick and you faint.

Yep.

Yeah. He, he puts this, he puts the anesthesia in your eye and then opens it and stick something in your eye to keep it open.

This is an eye doctor or just a fellow downstairs, a proctologist.

And, um, and he, then he shoots lasers in your eye, and it's kind of painful.

Like from the hip?

Yeah. He shoots from the hip.

Pew, pew.

Yeah. And he puts those Star Wars sounds in it to make me, to soothe me.

He does, huh? Pew, pew, pew, pew. Yeah. That guy's not an accredited doctor, Sean.

But, Sean, you've been, you've been doing the show, right? Didn't you, what did you have, like one day off or two days off with the, after the eye?

surgery? Monday's and Tuesday's off.

No, no. But I mean, after you got your, uh, your lasers in the eye.

Last week, yeah, you did a full. Yeah, I did the laser thing on Tuesday and had two shows the next day.

You did seven shows after the laser thing.

Yeah.

Did you bump into any, any, any cast members or set decoration?

No, uh, no, set decoration. No, I did okay. But I'm supposed to bang my head, you know, when I try to get those voices out of my head. So I cut that and I just grabbed my head now.

That's good. Not as good.

Do you, do you feel like it might be a nice kind of homage if eventually you end up using your mom's eye?

Uh, well.

No, I'm serious. Cause I know that Tracy's got it, right? Trace.

I could use that.

Trace, get it shined up.

I could get, I could finally see how my mom saw.

No, you're not going to have to do that. I think you're okay. Uh, because you made it through last week.

Well, we're going to find, I know I made it through one week. So we're going to find out what happens today, after, after we're done here. And then I'll, I'll let you guys know. Cause I'm sure you'll be on the edge of your seats.

Hey, quick question. Jason, are you wearing one of those, those sauna sweatsuits? Are you trying to, are you trying to cut weight?

It's just a, just a crappy, uh, overthrow. It's a little cloudy today. Um, you know, speaking of proctologist guys, um, our next guest. Wait, what? It's not my guest.

Jay, me and you have the exact same glasses on today.

And same hair. We should start a band.

Well, your partner's in the middle.

No, it's not meant to be in the middle. It really isn't. Uh, you know, I look like a water yak when it goes down.

We've been through what it looks like in profile when it's just the outline. Yeah.

On the smart list logo, I look like a dickhead.

Yeah. A literal dickhead, but let's not.

By the way, let's talk about our FaceTime last night. Well, for two seconds, FaceTime.

Was I on it?

No, no. And he in literally never seen any human being eat this fast. He's talking, he's talking, he's talking. while I'm talking to him. He's making a sandwich.

Was it a small size bread or something?

No, it was a big fucking sandwich.

Yeah, big sandwich. I just hammered it in like four bites.

And then he went on a hike.

I needed fuel.

To go on your hike.

You know? And I went on a hike.

Did you put on, did you strap on the heavy hands and the heavy ankles and walk up the hills?

Yeah, I wore the weight vest.

And did you zip into the rubber suit?

I wish.

Do you ever talk on your hike while you're on the phone? Do you ever pass anybody?

What?

Wait, what kind of question is that?

Meaning like when you're walking and do you talk to people on your hike? Because I don't like it when people are like. I do sometimes. What are you doing tonight? And I'm like, just call me when you're done.

I'll roll calls. I'll roll calls sometimes.

What if you got one of those, you know, they use them for motion capture. Where you wear the helmet with the camera, that's looking back at you. Oh, that's not bad. You could do FaceTimes while you're walking.

You could do full FaceTime.

Yeah. But you know what I mean. when people are like talking to you? I do.

Of course I do. I'm that guy. And what happens is also is that that street is, I will have. And you don't always look the best, because it's quite straight, uphill and you get quite tired. Jay, we've done it before together.

At noon on a weekday.

Actually, you saw me there a couple weeks ago. You pulled over.

Yeah.

You pulled over. You didn't know, it was me. You thought I was just a hot guy walking up the hill. You said, hey, hot guy. And then you saw me.

Hi, guy.

Instead of hi, guy.

Hi, guy.

Our guest doesn't need to hear us.

Oh, wait.

Really quick. Sorry. Go ahead.

I guess our guest doesn't need it. No, no.

Just really quick. One of the most embarrassing moments of my entire life, I was driving off the NBC lot. This is decades ago. And there was this really good looking guard. And I rolled down.

Well, we always need something to cut. Will, your guest?

I don't know. That's pretty good. I'm not figuring out why I cut that.

All the way there and no destination.

I'll tell you who never gets cut.

Oh, great.

Is our guest today. This person is not going to get cut. Because you're going to want to see this person. And the people who hire this person want this person to be in every frame of everything they do. Because this is somebody who has been in many frames for many years.

Jen Garner.

I usually have a baseball – Okay, wait a minute. Jennifer Garner. Yeah, you always have a hat on. I always do.

Yeah.

You, me, and Jason have the exact same glasses frames on right now.

Listener, we've had a lot of nice people on this show.

Sure.

None as nice as Jen. Bateman, I'm so happy to see you. Hi, guys.

I got so nervous. Do people get nervous when you're about to introduce them?

No. I have a runny tummy right now. Always. Wow.

That's nuts. People do. I don't know if people get nervous. But I think that nerves are always a good sign. Okay, great.

It means you're ready. It means you're prepared.

It means that you're in the moment. Hi, Jennifer Garner. We've never met before. Really? I know.

That is so weird to me. Yeah. We have a lot of friends. I remember you from the Venice days and the whole, yeah, your whole compound.

Yeah, I was in the compound with everybody who was in your show.

Wait, you guys have never met?

What compound?

I know.

Isn't that weird? When I was living out with Bradley, Bradley and I were in the back.

And Ron and Iva.

And Iva were in the front.

And where were you, Jen?

How could you never meet if you guys were that close?

I would kind of skulk around to try to avoid him.

But here I am. You were living in the same building, Jen?

No, no, I wasn't. It's just like Ron and Iva, Ron Rifkin and his wife were in one part of this compound. And Ron was on Alias. He played Sloane. And Bradley Cooper was there.

So when Transpo was driving the van in the morning, picking up all the cast members,

you were surprised. Oh, you must not have seen this show. No, no, no, it wasn't that kind of.

Sometimes I saw Will taking out the garbage.

By the way, I didn't take out the garbage. That's why Ron got mad at me. Did you know that story?

No, but I'm not surprised.

I thought that's why you brought it up.

You don't want Ron Rifkin running after you.

Ron, I used to, we were, I guess, working on Arrested Development at the time. And I was never there first thing in the morning, on Monday morning, whatever it was, or Thursday mornings. And at this point, Bradley moved out and Robbie Bates had moved into Bradley's place.

Right, right, right.

Right? So Robbie was there. And I go, and all of a sudden, like, Ron was kind of, I go, I think Ron's mad at me because I haven't taken the trash out. Because I don't get it.

Why is it your job?

It was anybody's job. Whoever could do it. But Ron would do it right at 5 p.m. The moment you're allowed to put it out. the night before, he would put it out.

All right. If we don't cut me.

You don't want that story?

Checking out the NBC guard.

You don't want the Ron Rifkin trash story?

People just listen to it in double time. See, John, there's nothing to be nervous about. We don't let you get a word in edgewise. I know. We just like talking.

Wait, it's Jennifer Garner, everybody. Yeah, I know. By the way, you're the most delicious person. You are so sweet and kind. What's with the 1950s microphone?

This just came. Your lovely guys sent it.

We sent it over. So Jennifer Garner, and I was, again, can I call you Jen?

Yeah, unless you're going to use the whole thing.

Does anybody call you, Jenny?

Very few people. There's a first AD that I love, who calls me Jenny. People like that. Just random people in my life. But I never mind.

Well, you call Aniston, Jenny. sometimes. I always find it very cute. I think it's very affectionate.

Yeah.

I like Jenny as a nickname for Jen.

Yes.

In a weird way, but I didn't grow up as a Jenny. But I bet Jen Aniston would agree with me that we, you know, why weren't we named like Savannah or Ireland or something?

Well, Jason, I also call your wife Mandy, and nobody else calls her Mandy. That's true. But so, Jen, I want to go way back because I love your trajectory. It's so great. And I mentioned it in the lead-in when I was reading about you.

All the frames.

Yeah. Well, I also felt very similar in that, like, when I looked at all the stuff that you did and the shows that got canceled and the three episodes and this stuff, that was my pain for so many years as well. You had all these near misses. You think, like, oh, this is the one. I'm so excited about this show.

I remember I did a movie. My first, like, movie movie was Mr. Magoo starring Leslie Nielsen as Mr. Magoo.

Oh, my God. I remember that.

I'm sure you do. I do. And when it was coming out, I knew so little that I thought, well, I guess I get to go to the Oscars this year because I'm in a movie.

I seriously was like, well, I guess. Get a dress.

I better get ready.

I better go shopping.

Is it true that Leslie Nielsen, every day of his life, walked around with a little fart machine in his pocket?

He did. There was a fart machine. Oh, my God. There was a fart machine.

I think that's so awesome. That'd be good. There's also this guy, and I can't remember who it was.

Or there wasn't a machine, but there was farting one way or another.

Maybe there wasn't a fart machine. I was going to say, Jay doesn't need a machine.

There's a guy, I feel like, it's not Jeffrey Tambor, but it's somebody like that, equally hilarious, that his whole life is to walk around with a little bit of loose change in his pocket, and he just drops it as he walks by people. Why? Which is because you can't help but go, oh, sir. You just keep walking.

It's a fun bit.

You just drop loose change. It's a great bit.

It keeps it fun.

Happy birthday. That's another great bit.

Just say that like in an elevator.

Out of nowhere.

Sorry, Willie.

So you're ready to go to the Oscars after Mr. Magoo. What was the thing? –? what had you done before, Mr.

And by the way, weren't you a theater nerd too?

Yeah, I was a theater, nerd. Well, let's go back then, Will.

Let's go back. You started as a – you weren't a theater major to begin with. Is that true?

Correct. I was a chemistry major.

Wow.

Wow.

Wow. Do you have like that kind of the brain that loves that still?

No.

No, no. I don't think I had it then. I just think my dad was a chemical – he's a retired chemical engineer, and I come from a chemistry town. Like it was Union Carbide, Dow, DuPont. Yeah, there were like five people left.

Do you ever like? –.

Oh, the drinking water must be delicious.

It's all different colors, rainbow flavors. Sure.

Do you have a sci-fi brain, though? Do you like sci-fi because of alias and all that, or no?

No. Uh-uh.

All right.

Well, you don't have to be – No, I'm just thinking. Like you would think that, but no, I just –.

Your girls aren't taking chemistry yet, are they? Franny's taking chemistry. I don't know how she's doing it.

Oh, my gosh. My daughter's a junior.

Yes? Yeah. So then she is, yes? Yeah. Or she's done with chemistry?

Okay. I have 16, 14, and 11..

Are you helping out with chemistry at all?

No, no, no.

No? You didn't retain any of it? I don't remember.

I mean, truly, I can't help with that homework of my high school junior. Not even – Yeah. No.

I can hardly read it. What about math? What about math?

She had her AP – No. Her BC Calc AP – Whatever. Her exam yesterday. Oh, right. So no.

Today? I mean, what time –.

I feel like we really shouldn't have to do it. Jason, I haven't seen you in a long time. I know. You know? I know.

Remember when we used to work together like once, every like eight or nine months? Yeah.

Remember when we worked together all the time?

You guys did Juno?

We did Juno. We did Juno.

What else?

We did Kingdom. But before that, we did the Kingdom.

Oh, you did the Kingdom. Of course.

Was Kingdom before Juno?

Kingdom was before Juno.

Didn't? we do a third thing together?

We did. And I always forget, and I actually looked it up. Because we didn't have scenes together. That's why.

Oh, it was the Ricky Gervais thing?

It was Invention of Lying. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. Ooh, I love that movie.

Yeah.

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So you become a theater nerd. You're at Denison. You switch majors. You don't want to be a chemical engineer. You're working on the sets.

Okay, so then I worked at a Shakespeare Festival in Atlanta, Georgia, the summer after I graduated. And while we were there, there was a musical, because I really loved musicals. And there was a musical, a new version of, what's it called? Taming of the Shrew.

Okay.

No.

What is Taming of the Shrew? Taming of the Shrew is the name of the, which is Kiss Me, Kate. There's Kiss Me, Kate, but apparently there needed to be another one, so it was called Dancing with the One I Love. And so that show was taken to a theater in a strip mall in Fort Lauderdale called the Bryan C. Smith Off-Broadway Theater.

We're still with you. This is next to Turbo Tax.

It literally was. It was shut down for tax evasion later.

Oh, no, sure.

But I went down with that show and performed there, and I was there as a non-equity performer because I had been hiding from my equity card because I could work more, you know?

Yeah, right.

So I was working as a non-equity performer, so they didn't have to put me up. So, in exchange for being someone's roommate, I was in charge of the laundry for the entire cast, and there were 35 men. We did eight shows a week. So I washed and ironed all there, but I got really good at ironing.

No way.

Yeah. I did all of the washing, drying, all of the dry cleaning.

I can't touch anyone's dirty clothes.

I love dirty clothes. I can't do it. I want to iron your little poncho so badly.

Oh, gosh.

How dirty can it be? You got to look for the waistband. Grab that.

Oh, my God.

Do you love that? Of all household chores, you love ironing? Like, do you love that? I have a friend that loves ironing.

Yeah, I get that. I got really into it at the time. I was so – I just ironed all the time. So, yeah.

It used to be one of my chores on the weekends.

I just learned a new hack is to – if you have, like, rings on a wood table, something like that, and you put, like, just a damp towel on it, and you iron it, and it'll bring the ring mark off.

Who taught you that?

Oh, my God. I learned it on the TikTok. Hey, so listen –.

YouTube shorts?

Yeah, YouTube, short shorts. They're called culottes.

I was doing a ton of laundry, and after it was over,

I was driving north to audition for –.

Back to Georgia.

Yeah. I was driving up north to audition for Utah Shakespeare for the next summer, and when I was on my way there, I met a casting director in Philadelphia at a restaurant, and he said, you should come and read for this little movie. Anyway, I ended up in New York for a couple of days, and while I was there, I went on an audition, and I – actually, I opened the backstage. I went on a bunch of auditions, and because I was so green and so fresh off the bus, like West Virginia girl, I just got everything that day that I went on. They were all these little non-equity jobs.

Hi, y'all.

I'd hire you right now, based on this interview. It's unbelievable, right?

So somebody said, you should meet an agent. I met this agent. She said, I want to send you to the roundabout to see if you could get an understudy job, and so anyway, then I did, and then I started working at Isabella's. Do you remember Isabella's? On the southeast corner of 77th Street and Columbus Avenue.

Yes.

That's a bar?

Yes, I do.

A restaurant? Yeah, it was across from the Natural Museum of History.

Yes. I know Isabella's. Yeah.

Did you ever get loaded in there, Will?

I sure did, but that was a different lifetime.

So how quickly after that were you back on the bus out to Hollywood?

A few years, because I only wanted to do theater. Right.

And you have this amazing singing voice that not a lot of people know that you have, but you do.

No.

So that was the dream, to do musicals on Broadway, never to go out to Hollywood?

I mean, it was just to be in theater. I didn't really, I mean, I love dancing. I don't really have a voice that could be a professional singing voice, unless it's the range from here to here.

A Broadway quality.

Yeah, I don't have a Broadway voice, but I have a karaoke voice. We've done karaoke, sort of, fancy karaoke. But anyway, yeah. Then I was super broke, and I had just finally auditioned for a TV thing this agent sent me on, and she said, well, they want to test you for this, and I said, I'm understudying right now, and she said, they'll give you $150 a day cash per diem, and I so badly needed that cash. I was so broke that I came to LA to test for something, and I got that job, and it was to play Melissa Gilbert's daughter in a Daniel Steele miniseries.

I was up for the same part. Wow.

Wow. Melissa Gilbert was one of my first crushes.

Yeah, no, she was. You guys were so tied to each other because I was just thinking, Jay, you worked with Melissa Gilbert on Little House.

Yes, sir, yeah. That's right. That's when things all started to happen for me. Testosterone and my career.

I kept calling her Laura. I remember. in Hair and Makeup, I kept calling her Laura.

Did you really? Yeah.

She taught me everything. I'd never been in front of a camera. I'd never paid attention to any of it. She taught me what a call sheet was, who to talk to for things. She taught me about the camera turning around.

Oh, my God.

She was really good to me. That's so sweet. That's so nice. Did you guys, did you stay connected with her at all after? Yeah.

Yeah, I have.

You know, she's in government and politics.

in Michigan. Yeah, I had a fundraiser for her, yep.

Married to Timothy Busfield.

Yeah, very happily.

A great Timothy Busfield, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Couple of gingers.

Yeah, yeah.

Found each other. Well, my son's a ginger, so I always have a soft spot. One of my sons.

Sweet, sweet ginger.

Mm-hmm. Sweet Abel. So you do the movie with, now you've, and then she's taught you everything you need to know about showbiz in half an hour. So then I'm in. So now you're in.

and I was still, you know, and I would, every time I would get some kind of play, I would be so broke, I would get like an episode of Law & Order or some dumb thing, and I would have to, I would take that job because I needed that type of show.

Well, you did Law & Order, right?

I did, I did.

Scale plus 10..

Scale plus 10.. You're just so stoked. Scale plus 10, baby. So stoked. But also you're working in the city, and as you, like, you, like you're working in the city, you're so excited that you get to shoot in the city, and you end up like shooting on, you're like, I was just here yesterday, buying milk, and now I'm here shooting, you know what I mean?

It's so crazy. Isn't it, when you're, when you first are driving, or going up somewhere, and you see, like, you know, big caravans and a whole set in a base camp, and you're like, wow, there's a movie shooting there, and you're like, wait a minute, that's me. Yeah. Do you remember that?

Yeah.

I mean, I still feel that way a little bit.

I still get that way, yeah, totally.

Driving up to a location and just seeing all the trucks, it's like, oh.

Yeah, because I remember like moving to Los Angeles for the first time, seeing that, and like just waiting tables, and you're like, that'd be so cool. What are they filming over there? I'd love to be a part of it.

How did, so? right off the bus from West Virginia, you're in New York, you're very green. How did that, how did you find the city? Was it scary, or did you adapt immediately?

I was pretty happy. I mean, I just, I really went right into it. I just would pay my $20 to stand at the back of the Broadway house to watch every show that I could by myself like this, and I would go to museums, and I mean, I just was, I was nerding out.

So you weren't going to the discos and the bars and the-.

No, I wasn't doing any of that, but I, my mom, always told me that the more people you make eye contact with and smile at during this day on the street, like strangers, the happier you are as a person. Mistake. Oh, the cuckoo clock, sorry. But, so, as I was walking down the street-.

Does that go off? every time you quote something cuckoo, your mom says?

Yes.

It would be very busy. Quiet.

Wait, wait, by the way, by the way, Jen,

there's a- That was cuckoo.

There's a lot of wisdom in that, because I like that. your mom said that, and I was just listening to a thing today, because it is, it lends itself to, the cuckoo clock's amazing.

Could we get locations on the cuckoo clock? Yeah.

I wish Melissa Gilbert had told you about sound while we're rolling.

I've got a deal with that. Cuckoo.

So there's a, there's a lot of wisdom in that. I like this idea that it's kind of, you know, you get what you put out there, and so, and I think that that's true. If you go out and you make eye contact and you smile at people and you kind of, you project joy, you're going to get joy coming back your way. Yeah.

Right, okay, but when you first moved to New York,

Well, that's crazy. Yeah, no,

that's insane. That is very hard on the population of New York. It's very tiring. I was like, hi,

hi,

how you doing? Nice day. That's true. I like your shoes. I mean, it was a lot.

I was a lot.

They were a lot for me.

You can't compliment people's shoes in New York, but when you're, where was your first apartment? Do you remember what part of the city? Yeah,

I lived on a woman's kitchen floor on 85th and Broadway.

Wow. Mm-hmm.

She had a studio, but the kitchen was kind of its own alcove and I had a little futon and my suitcase for nine months.

Wow,

like a puppy.

What year, what year was that, do you think?

Like a puppy. What year was that? 94..

Okay.

Why,

were you on 85th and? No,

I was, I lived at, I lived at 87th and West End with five other people. That was like 90, 91, and then, by 92,, I was living on the Upper East Side in a railroad apartment with two other dudes. Wait, are we,

are we falling asleep? Jen, I'm on 81st and Broadway right now. Oh,

no way. No way.

Anyway, who cares?

Wait, so,

so,

That's a nice apartment, is that your apartment?

Yeah, it's brand new.

And all he does is watch TV in there.

Yeah.

So, so, you do this, now. you're living there, you're living in New York and you're doing some, you're doing Law and Order, you're doing Spin City, gotta go, go back and watch your Spin City episode.

Yeah, you do.

I'm shocked that you haven't. I know, I know. And then, and then, how, where does alias fall into all of this? Like, well, sorry, you meet J.J. Abrams because you do Felicity.

Yes. So, a few years go by and it's, I had been working probably seven years by the time I met J.J. and did Felicity and alias.

And how'd you meet J.J.?

I just auditioned for Felicity for a guest spot.

Oh, gotcha.

Wow. And then it's like, he remembered you.

But I, I had heard, and J.J.'s a friend of the show, so he's listening, I had heard that you, um, that he wrote alias with you in mind.

He did. I know. Isn't that cool? He gave it to me. Yeah.

That's awesome.

He's such an incredible director,

too. Yeah, it turns out. Yeah.

It's such a great, it is a great pilot. And it was, and it was a, it was a great show and you were great on it. And, um, I,

energy. I mean, it's pretty infectious. It's so positive. He gives you his full attention. He's super sincere.

And is that where you met our lovely Victor Garber, that we have in common?

Yes. That is where I met our lovely Victor Garber. Although I'd been a big fan of his, I'd seen him in art. I'd seen him in the one with Billy Crudup that started with an A at Lincoln Center. It's, you know, the one I'm talking about.

Whenever we have dinner, whenever Victor and I got to dinner, he's a very close friend of both yours and mine. He was at your premiere party or your opening night party. Yes, he was at the premiere opening night. And any time we go out to dinner, I'll always say super, super loud, oh my God, were you in Titanic? And everybody looks and he's,

you motherfucker, fuck you, you fucking asshole. Because everyone's looking for Leonardo DiCaprio.

Did you guys see him in Godspell? Yes. With Martin Short and every other Canadian actor.

Every Canadian actor. And they're all still super close, that entire cast. I know. Really, it's like 40 years later.

I love that. Wait, am I showing my dumbness by wondering why would they all be Canadians? It all really started this, there was like,

so Godspell was this thing on Broadway. It was a huge sensation.

Wait, wait, Jen, Jen, before, I hate to interrupt you, but I have to, Jason, we've had at least five members of that production on the podcast who have talked about.

the fact that they were all in that production. No recollection at all. I just thought maybe Godspell was written by a Canadian, it's a Canadian story, and no?

Yeah, Jesus. Jesus, it turns out, was a Canadian. Everyone knew it.

So wait, Jesus is in Godspell? Oh my God.

How do you spell? How do you spell God?

G-A-W-D? Oh my God.

Victor, and you know, I used to see Victor too, back in the Alias days, through Bradley. All the time, yeah. Yeah, and we would have dinner out on the west side with that little, me and the rest of the cast of Alias all the time, because Bradley was on Alias. I felt like a sort of an eighth member of the cast, if you will. You were.