Financial Freedom Helps You Solve for Peace

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney, best-selling author of Building a Non-Anxious Life. I guess I'm an aspiring best-selling author, John. I just pre-launched a book, and I hope that it's successful as yours.

Work hard, George.

Inspiring.

May you accomplish all of your dreams.

But we're both YouTubers, so we succeeded in that regard.

Well, you're crushing me on YouTube.

If that's success. There you go. Well, let's take some calls. The number is 888-825-5225.. We'll help you take the right next step with your money, your mental health, your relationships, whatever it is.

Hi. So, I'm wondering how my husband and I have—we're a family of five. We have three kids, five and under. We both work. We make a very good living, north of $300K a year, which almost 50 of it is tax-free because my husband receives VA disability pay monthly.

I'm sorry to hear what you're going through. Yeah, what happened? What were the crises?

Yeah. So, we—the height of the real estate market, right? We sold our first house. You know, this is our opportunity to get debt-free. We were probably, I want to say, between $50,000 to $65,000 in debt.

So, how much debt are you in now?

It's probably—I want to say between $22,000 to $25,000 total.

And what kind of debt?

Yeah, so it's unsecured loan debt, credit card debt. Should I include the car or no?

Yes, that's debt, isn't it?

Okay, then it goes up from there. So, I would tack on a total—an additional $60,000..

So, you're probably $85,000 in consumer debt.

Are you back to working now?

I am. I am. I found a new job fairly soon, within a month, and I am working.

Are you still making $300,000??

It takes some time to build the pipeline again.

Okay. What's your husband do?

Yeah, he works for the government, and he was a Marine, and now he works for the government as a safety inspector for OSHA.

So, I'm going to let George talk you through this debt situation, but I want to say a couple things, okay? Okay. The first thing is, I'm really, really glad you're still here.

Thank you.

And making that call when you're holding a baby is one of the scariest calls you can make, right?

It is.

Yeah, because there's that demon telling you that they're going to take your baby away. People are going to say you're crazy, and they're going to lock you up, and I'm so, so proud of you for doing that. That's hard. And we're good now, right?

For the most, most of the time.

I still have moments. Yes, there you go. Let me ask you this way. You're always going to be around here, right? Yes, for sure.

Okay.

The more you try to, quote unquote, get back to what we had, the more you're going to make yourself nuts, because you're just going to run in a circle. You're going to be dragging what used to be.

That's a fair assessment.

Right? So, we used to have $60,000 cars. We don't anymore. We're a Camry family now. We used to have a humongous house, and we had our forever house.

Okay.

So, Jessica, this is going to start with some simple math, but it's going to end with some sacrifice and behavior change. You ready for it?

Absolutely. Okay. Keep the mind is-.

Is your husband on board, too? This is an important factor. He is. He knows how you feel about all this. Okay.

Yes.

Correct. So, let's look at what our expenses are. What do we need to keep the household running?

For cutting out all the expenses?

The total expenses that would keep the house running. Food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all that.

Probably $12,000..

$12,000?.

Yep. With our nanny included. Childcare included. Oh, my.

Remember those sacrifices I mentioned, Jessica? This is where we might have to figure out how to get that $12,000 down to $5,000. so we have $10,000 to throw at the debt and we can be done in eight months. That might mean selling the cars if you can't make those sacrifices.

It might mean letting the nanny go for a season.

This is not going to be fun, but your life on the other side is going to be way better for it. So, hang on the line. We'll gift you EveryDollar. We are wishing you the best.

All right. Today's question comes from Leanne in Virginia. Leanne writes, I've been hearing that the U.S. dollar may be obsolete and so-called experts advising to do something with money sitting in various large banks like Wells Fargo, Bank of America, et cetera. Since the market has been all over the place and the CD rates have been up, we stockpiled a couple hundred thousand dollars in Wells Fargo, but now, after seeing these alerts, we are a bit concerned.

Wow. A lot going on here, John.

A lot going on here. All right. I'm going to let you talk about the investing strategy, George, but here's my two cents and you can do with it what you will. The U.S. dollar is how the world does business.

Not tied to us.

And then everyone goes, it's all coming down. So here's what I can tell you. I can tell you that if the U.S. dollar does not continue to be the world currency and Wells Fargo, Bank of America, and fill in the blank, all fail,

That's one way.

Right. And then you go, what's coming down? The dollar!

Well, John, if you upload a video and it's like, guys, the dollar's fine, everyone just go to work and love your families, it's going to get zero views. Nobody wants to watch that. It's not exciting.

And is there some challenges? Are you freaking kidding me? We have $37 trillion. We have people in Washington just throwing crayons at each other in a sandbox. Like, you're dumb.

That's the game. That was a good intellectual take, John. Mine was not that smart.

What do we do?

I just underlined things that I thought were funny in this question, like so-called experts are advising me to do something. So no, I'm not going to trust the so-called experts out there, who are using fear to get your clicks. And I also wouldn't stockpile hundreds of thousands of dollars in a bank account, because your biggest problem there is not devaluation, it's inflation feeding away at your money. Which is very real. That part is real, and so I would be investing that money, anything beyond your emergency fund and your current savings goals, invest it in the long term.

I do think what you said earlier is something I wish everyone would double down and triple down and quadruple down on. Which is, a great inflation hedge, don't owe anybody any money. A great got-just-got-laid-off hedge, don't owe anybody any money. A great anxiety mental health challenge, don't owe anybody any money. And if more people would default to, as for me and my house, I'm going to take care of that.

Yeah, that's an interesting take. If you're truly worried about what could happen with the economy, then why are you owing Ford Motor Company a giant check every month for that car you must drive?

Why do you make a payment to Visa?

It just doesn't make sense.

You don't care about the economy.

And it sounds like this question, they have a bunch of money that probably aren't carrying debt. But it's one of the best things you can do to sleep better at night. Because when it all comes down, the lenders are still going to want their payment. And they will do whatever it takes to get it. They will take you to court in the midst of a pandemic.

It's just become like an old trope, right, which I control, what I can control. And so when I hear something going on like this, I mean, what can I do? What can I do about it? What can I literally do about this? I know I'm going to lose money due to inflation if I put the money under my bed.

It's that simple. And, John, you lay out six daily choices we can make in your new book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, which I highly recommend. for Leanne in Virginia. It actually may help more than anything.

And George can turn anything into a sales pitch.

That's what I do, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. It's a free call at 888-825-5225.. You jump in, we'll talk about money, mental health, relationships, and whatever is on your mind.

Would you consider yourself quick and nimble?

I am actually. It's the one thing I am good at as a small person.

I disagree.

I appreciate that. I'll outrun you any day, John.

You're a small person, but you're not quick or nimble.

On that note, Chris in Albany is waiting with bated breath for our answer to this question. What's going on, Chris?

Hey, George, Dr. Don. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

Sure. What's up? How can we help?

So I guess one of the things I notice when trying to get on a budget, and one of the things that's kind of like hampering things, I should say, is the constant bombardment I'm getting of emails, marketing emails. It seems like every time I check my email, like 99 out of 100 of them are something trying to get me to spend money. So I was just wondering if you guys had any tip, strategies or anything to kind of combat this and to stay on track with the budget.

What does that have to do with your budget?

Well, just making sure that we don't spend extra money, that temptation to spend money from the constant emails and trying to have you to spend.

So if I gave you a really sophisticated answer, which was just don't,

Other than I don't have much pushback. I didn't know if it was something that your audience or anybody has issues with, maybe just trying to combat that.

Yeah, there's a simple and effective way to do this, and I talk about this in Financial Peace University. John and I tag team a lesson on why spending, and I talk about this tiny thing. at the bottom of that email. There's this tiny link. It's an invisible font about size 0.4, and if you click it, it'll say, sorry to see you go.

Unsubscribe!

There's an unsubscribe link, and that gives me no greater joy than to hit that link on every single marketing spam email, unless it's a Ramsey email, and then I accept it with great joy. But for real, that's all it takes. What kind of marketing emails are you getting, and did you sign up for them? Are these stores that you love?

It's mostly just because I really try to get on track with my spending and getting on a budget. To be honest, I really haven't been that great. So products I've bought in the past, whether you signed up for a rewards program or something in the past, and then you're just consistently getting those emails, and it feels like it's nonstop. And also, I'm not sure, has my email also been sold to other companies as well?

Yes, 100%.

I think it's so much, and I get the unsubscribe thing, and I've done that. It feels like there's so much. It's just very overwhelming at times.

I don't even open them, though.

What's underneath this? There's something underneath this.

Well, I think it's also just in the email, there might be important emails that I'm neglecting. Sometimes I'll just won't even look at them. But then I may have missed an email as a result.

Give me an example. What's a store that you might be tempted to spend at?

I don't know. Maybe it could have been anything from... I'll throw one out there. Maybe it's Amazon. Maybe it's another company where I bought clothing, things like that.

All right. So if you were struggling with alcohol,

People have it. I don't know why, but they have it.

Yeah, I have the Hotmail address.

There's ProtonMail. There's stuff all over the place. Delete your email account. Just delete it. And if there's three or four people that you want to have your thing, just send them a note that says, hey, this is my new email address.

And, Chris, you mentioned the budget at the top of this. And the budget is going to dictate your spending. And so you're the boss of the budget, but when the budget's done, it's the boss of you. So if you have a $200 shopping line item, then you have permission to spend $200 on shopping. And it may be stuff that just Chris wants.

Yep.

Just hear me and George say, I don't fully get the link between your budget and these emails.

I think it's before I had a lack of a budget, Dr. Jon. And I think now that I'm trying to get on a budget, get everything set, I'm still seeing those emails, just to avoid that temptation, don't go off the budget. I guess that's kind of what I'm trying to do.

Delete your email account, dude.

And whenever you sign up for stuff, here's what I do. I have like a spam marketing account. I do too. And that's what I give to all of these companies, and then I never open that inbox. Because I know what's coming.

Yes.

So that may be another way to go about this, if you can't delete your email account, if it's connected to 14 million things.

I appreciate it.

That becomes your junk email account, and you send it over.

But I usually go through a tirade where I just keep unsubscribing from every single thing for a week straight. And then I tend to stop getting those emails. It's really nice. It's a nice feeling. Hold on.

Hold on. This is important. Any behavior that you think I can't stop, like I can't control. A, do what he did and reach out and talk to somebody. Whether it's alcohol, whether it's spending, whether it's pornography, whatever it is.

And that's tough. That's a scary moment. When you look at your bank statement for the last month or two. And you go, this represents who I am as a person. Yep.

Mine is mostly thorn supplements. But I get what you're saying.

That's who John is. That's right. A man who values his health. That's a good reminder. And, John, you walk through three really important questions in that.

Or the dollar's going away. Like the earlier question, right? Like, are you safe? Right. Do you belong?

Usually the latter. But, hey, if you want to check out that lesson, it's Lesson 5 of Financial Peace University. John and I tag team it. I cover all the ways companies go after your money and what you can do to regain control of it. You can go check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're a new listener to the show and you want a deeper dive on the Ramsey baby steps, you can go to RamseySolutions.com and click on the Get Started button and we will help you figure out the next best step for your financial journey. That's RamseySolutions.com and click on Get Started.

Hi. I'm calling to figure out next best steps. My husband and I, we've been married about 20 years. About, I'd say, 10 years ago, we did the Financial Peace University. We were in a ton of debt.

So you thought we're going to turn this into some Victorian dream?

Maybe not that, but we just thought we could do a lot more than we have in 15 years. So I'm very aware. I even take all the blame because this is 100% on me to tell. Well, he's right on. So where we're at now, my husband has always, always wanted to build a sizable workshop.

That's a good combo. Really expensive machinery plus hoarding.

No, it's expensive. They're just big. So right now we have about $120,000 or so from the inheritance. And he clearly wants to go forward on building the workshop, because the plan always was build the workshop. Then we would have the space to solve other house problems.

So just sell your house. Sell your house.

That's what I'm thinking we should do. It would be smarter to sell our house and find another house. The area we live in, Maryland, is an incredibly high cost of living area.

Just sell your house. Just sell your house.

What could it sell for, as is, without you putting all this work into it?

I might be able to get $20,000 out of what we owe.

What do you owe?

$190,000..

And you've lived there 15 years?

We bought it in 2007, right when the market crashed. So it took a long time just to get back to what we owed.

Just sell your house.

Sell your house.

Sell your house.

I'm there. The other concern I have is that I really like our mortgage.

Hey, Heather, sell your house. Sell your house.

I'm on that. I want to do that. But to buy another house, I'm looking at like 400,000, 450 other houses that I could convince my husband to move into.

Okay, here's another idea. I just thought of it. Don't sell your house. Okay.

Uh-huh.

Ta-da.

How does that hit you?

Well, that's the other one I'm at. But then I have to spend all the money, either. I still can't say yes to what.

All right, I've got a new idea. I've got a new idea. I have a new idea. Sell your house.

And we're back.

Here's the deal. There's not a right or wrong here. You have just twisted yourself up like a pretzel.

Oh, I have?

Yes.

That was tricky, John. You talked about the anxiety thing.

Do what?

You talked about the anxiety thing. My $1,500 a month mortgage doesn't give me anxiety anymore. A new house, another $1,000 a month mortgage on top of that does.

But you're forgetting that $1,500 is not $1,500.. It's going to be $150,000 because of what you're going to have to do to this place over the next decade.

But if you just got a $100,000 inheritance and you put $100,000 into that house, it will appreciate for what?

No. Because the money that would put into it is like the invisible stuff that still just gets it back from not falling down anymore. Okay.

Here's an idea.

If I put $1,000 into it, I'm probably getting close to $300,000, to $350,000 maybe.

Okay.

Which almost doubles it.

Well, it's at $200,000 now, but yeah.

Okay.

What would it cost to rent somewhere? Let's say you sold it. You have $140,000.. You keep saving and saving. on top of that.

Not for five seconds.

Why?

He has stuff problems.

Okay. Well, let's deal with the stuff problems instead of putting ourself in a terrible financial position.

Here's what I think. Can I tell you? Can I just say what I think? You can tell me? if I'm wrong.

There could be relevance there.

There could be relevance there.

That was awesome. So, this doesn't go anywhere.

Right.

So, if I were to take on additional mortgage.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

What do you mean additional? I'd sell my house.

Okay, listen to me. What about this? What about taking your husband out for dinner? And saying, honey, I planned us a date. And sat down and said, I'm scared to death about the trajectory of our marriage.

This wouldn't be a new conversation.

Okay. Then you have to deal with that reality. And selling your house or not selling your house, you and your husband are going to go with you to your new house.

Yes.

You and your husband are going to go with you when you build a shop that you can't afford.

Well, that's not happening.

Yeah, him. having this dream workshop solves zero problems.

Yes.

So we need to deal with the root problem. Which, number one, is. we are way far away on our values when it comes to our dreams and vision financially.

You sound really close to resentment.

That's not resentment.

What is it?

This has been here for a long time. This is our reality.

You've resigned.

I can't change another person. I can choose to make decisions going forward based on the reality that exists. Or I obviously could leave, but that's not an option.

Sometimes, when I've had a house that I just want to get out of really bad, I sometimes over-inflate just how... The house is falling down. It's going to fall down.

I promise I'm not.

No, no, no. I'm just saying what I do, not what you do. I would go through that list of questions, like the things that you think have to be done, the things that you had planned to do because of HGTV back in the day. And then the chip and join of things that would just make it amazing. Make a list of those things.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Hi. Thank you.

What's going on?

So, I've been listening to you guys for a couple months now,

Well, first of all, I love that you guys are aligned on wanting to get out of debt. The goal is great. The method is terrible, of robbing our retirement accounts to achieve this. So, let's talk about what's left on these loans.

The larger one is around $37,000, and then the smaller one is a little over $20,000..

Okay. And what's your household income?

Together, we make about $150,000..

Good. Okay. Awesome income. So, let's look at it this way. If retirement accounts were not an option to rob, which, by the way, if you take a withdrawal against that, you sound young.

No, but we're not super young. He's 43, and I'm 41..

You're really young!

According to the government, you are not old enough to be retired. You're not a retired person.

We're young, but, yeah, that's why we're nervous about... You know, that's why I called is, because it sounds like a good idea, but I'm a little nervous about...

Do you know what it's going to do to you guys, not only with taxes and penalties, but also robbing from your potential future growth on that money?

Against a depreciating asset?

And then we've thought about, you know, because the company we're with allows you to, like, basically take a loan against yourself. No!

Okay, how about this? If you're that desperate to get out of debt, why not sell the trucks?

Well, we need them.

Hold on, hold on, hold on. You need a $40,000 truck for what?

You guys are ruthless.

Hold on, hold on. I live out in the country. I live on some acreage. I do need a truck. I'm an avid hunter, and I have stuff all over my property.

We are avid outdoors people. We have a camper that's bought and paid for, no payment. So we need the truck to pull it. And then the other one is just, you know, our, the smaller truck, which we use, my husband uses, drives it all the time. I guess we're not desperate to pay it off.

You're desperate enough to rob your retirement at 30% with interest and penalties.

Not to mention lost future earnings for a car that will go down in value every year.

Okay, well, I guess the reason that got me thinking about that is because I listen to you guys all the time. And I hear, like, Dave, always talking about, like, go Scorched Earth. Like, don't, you know, like, put everything into getting debt-free.

Yeah, but he also says never rob your retirement account to pay off debt. Or you don't go. Scorched Earth. and, like, Scorched Earth means we're going to sacrifice and use our future income and sell everything we can in order to get out of debt. It can also mean we're going to sell the trucks to get out of debt.

Which, that was my next question.

And what is your APR on your trucks?

I think, well, the 20, we got them in the last couple years when interest rates have been high with inflation. So I think they're around, like, 13..

Nothing says I'm thinking about our future like taking out a $37,000 loan at 13% interest.

Trying to earn it in a volatile 10% market. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So your math doesn't even work.

Emily, we're having fun with you. We're not trying to just rag on you. I'm trying to get you to the point where you're willing to go, you're right, our plan is not working. Trying to invest while taking on debt, while having the camper debt free, but then we need a $40,000 loan to run the camper. We didn't think this through.

So easy to solve.

Okay.

But there's only two solutions. You either sell the trucks or you pay them off very quickly with future income by selling stuff, getting on a budget, cutting expenses, increasing income. That's it. No life hacks, no retirement robbing. That's it.

Do you guys, what do you think about, because I know, well, I think I know in the baby steps that I read that you don't invest into your own retirement and everything.

I would pause every dollar.

Add up what it would be to pause all retirement. My guess is it's going to be close to a thousand bucks a month, if not more.

Well, and here's why that's important in your situation.

Yeah.

You having a paid for camper and a $40,000 loan against the truck that makes the camper usable. And you choosing to pause your investing while you're quote unquote, getting serious about your future. You will see how insane what you're doing is. Because you're going to say, there's no way I want to pause investing. We have a match and everything.

And you're also going to double your investing. if you follow our plan. You're going to go from 8% to 15% of household income. You're going to build extreme wealth by doing that. And when you spend cash on that next camper and that next truck, you're going to spend it differently, because it's your own money.

Fake it till you make it. It's popular career advice, but it doesn't work for very long. If you don't love what you do, you can't fake the enthusiasm and energy you need to win at work. You also can't fake your physical health and energy. Everybody knows we should eat more fruits and veggies, but fruit chews and veggie chips don't count.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Well, big news, if you missed it, we prelaunched my new book, Breaking Free from Broke. It's my first book ever.

Hey, guys. Thanks. Hope you're doing well today.

Absolutely. What's going on with you?

Well, I have an 88-year-old mother who's getting ready to run out of money, like really run out of money. But let me give you a background here. My dad passed away 15 years ago, and he left her the 15-acre property that they were living in. And she stayed there. The house is now, say, neglected, certainly dated, needs some work.

Have you not called your brother and just said, what in the world do you do? How does that conversation go?

It usually goes with, I'm working on it. He wants to make sure the house is perfect before it sells, which it will never happen. That's one thing. I've asked. what's going on with the finances.

I'm being honest. I've got a brother. He's a person of such impeccable character. This would never apply. But I would be really close if I were you to, in fact, not really close.

Everything.

It's time to stop waiting for a plan.

One of the problems here, and I'm sure it's something you've probably heard of, she's come out and said in the past she likes him better. As a person and everything else. That aside, every time I ask about something, oh, I trust him. I'd take her to the doctor. I'd take her shopping.

Do you think he has some kind of vested interest that he's driving this wedge between you guys on purpose and he stands to gain something?

No, I think he's pretty much kind of like just a dumb-dumb. And he has always had issues, OCD type issues, but also just can't make a decision, those sorts of things. He's the older brother. I'm the younger brother.

Yeah, but nobody's that dumb. to where there's $240,000 in an account and two years later, at a burn rate of $10,000 a month, there's $3,000.. It's crazy. Everybody knows. this train stops next month.

Yeah. And actually, when it stops, it's going to park itself in his house. Yeah. Now she says she's going to get a camper and take her cat and drive around.

Of course she says that. That's not happening.

Of course, of course.

So here's the deal. It sounds like there's two things. One is, there's the money aspect of it.

Yeah.

What if she lives another decade?

Well, yeah, she says she's going to live to be 100.. And then, on the other hand, you know.

Well, do some quick math with her and show her that she's out of money in a year.

I'm more worried that there's way more money in this trust than your brother's done something nefarious with it. He's either so,

Well, she refinanced this house 10 years ago. Now, she's been in it for 30.. So she would have paid it off. My dad had sold our old house when they moved out to this other place. So there's $300,000 that was put into it, into a $500,000 house.

Here's the deal, man. You can wipe your hands of this and grieve like bloody hell. your mom. Yeah. And your relationship and it shouldn't be this way and you wish you were still one of her boys, and she has chosen the other one.

No, and it's actually more than devastating. It's actually a relief, because now I know why things are happening the way they are.

Okay, it might be a relief.

Yeah, he's the executor, but not the power of attorney.

Who's the power of attorney?

Nobody. She still retains everything. Okay.

Well, this is bordering on elder financial abuse, and so that makes me think we need to get some third parties involved to look into this before we continue to destroy her life.

Yeah. Those are the words I was looking for, because that's what I was thinking.

I mean, I'm no lawyer, but I would contact one immediately and just explain the situation.

And here's what's hard. She might talk to an attorney and say I have directed my oldest son to do every single thing I want. And when I run out of money, I'm gonna move in with him or I'll move back into my magic home.

She said so.

The bottom line is an 88-year-old woman should not have $10,000 in expenses every single month.

No.

Especially with a burn rate, with a finish line coming up real quick.

Which tells me her expenses aren't 10.. That money is going somewhere and it sounds like it's going partially to your brother. So I'm sorry you're dealing with this, Mike. This is a tangled web of just broken relationships and financial abuse, and I hope you find some resolution, even if it's not the one you're looking for.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real, and I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams. but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's. And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too.

This is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is 888-825-5225.. Chris joins us in Seattle, Washington.

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I have a question. I found Dave Layton, so I'm following, I'm just now getting started with his Baby Steps and I'm on Baby Step number two.

I don't know. At what point did you think this is about the interest?

Right.

So what's the balance of the 401k loan?

It started at six. It's 5,000 now.

Okay. And what other debt do you have? You have the credit card, personal loans, 401k loan.

And I have a deficiency balance from a vehicle. So I'll give a little back story. I found Dave a few months ago and I got on a thing. I stopped all 401k investment, which was really hard for me because of the match.

But you took a loan against your 401k.

Right.

So we can't get too excited about the free money when we just robbed ourselves of it.

Right. And so I got rid of a vehicle that was very expensive.

You already did the voluntary repo? Yeah. It's done? Okay. What's the deficiency balance on that?

33 and some change. Whew.

Good gosh. Was it an airplane car? What was it?

It was a brand new diesel truck.

Okay. What are you driving now?

It's a little Isuzu car. It's a little Isuzu.

Paid for?

Worth about $1,500, yeah.

Good. Okay.

Hey, hold on, hold on. How old are you, Chris? Real quick. George, then get back. How old are you, Chris?

I'm 37..

All right. I keep hearing some shame in your voice. Brother, let it ride. I'm freaking proud of you.

Well, I'm ashamed or I'm embarrassed because of the amount of money I do make.

And we talk to millionaire teachers all the time. So, dude, you are not dumb. You're not an idiot. You're clearly good at what you do professionally. You probably just did what everyone in your life told you to do.

Right. Yes. And that was sort of my thinking when I quit the 401k investing. It was really hard for me, because I'm like, all I could see was that money.

But it hasn't worked. When you approach George with the interest rate in it, that model hasn't worked. Not just for you. For most of America. It doesn't work.

What's your total monthly payments on all of this debt?

It's about...

Okay. Now, what's your income?

It'll be $150,000 this year, but it's going to drop to $135,000 next year because they want us to have a more work-life balance, so they're cutting some overtime.

Okay. Well, you can go pick up a side hustle and keep it at $150,000 or even higher, right? Sounds like you just freed up some time to work.

That is with my side hustle. My day's salary is $127,000 and then I... about $10,000, $11,000 on the side hustle. Great. And I take a day for myself.

What's your take-home pay every month? Without investing, what's your take-home pay going to be on average?

It's going to be probably about $7,000..

Okay. So your goal is to figure out how much gap and margin we can create between your expenses which is going to be food, utility, shelter, transportation, and those debt payments.

I estimated two and a half years.

I'm saying two or less if you're following our plan.

Eighteen months max.

Okay. So now think about this.

I just haven't been able to see the numbers.

That's what I want you to see is the numbers. See what your life looks like two years from now, when you've freed up $2,000 worth of payments and you have a fully funded emergency fund. You never have to turn to a lender again. You never have to feel the shame of one of these money mistakes again. You just get to walk in freedom, making $150,000 with no payments.

I am.

What's left on the mortgage?

$330,000..

Okay. I want you to start dreaming about what does Chris look like ten years from now, when he's got a paid-for house making $150,000, probably more, ten years from now with no payments in the world, including no mortgage. Think about that. And then let's reverse engineer it to where we make decisions today that get us there. And one of those decisions is pausing investing.

because your gross is about $12,500.. Where's the other $5,500 a month going that you only bring home $7,000?.

So my mortgage is right at $3,000 with all the expenses.

Okay.

And then fuel.

So you're talking, you have $7,000 left after you pay all your bills and everything.

No, no. I take $7,000 home. So $3,000, anywhere from $3,000 to $3,200 is monthly expenses for the house. And then I have my phone bill, my other...

But John's saying, hey, you're grossing $12,000.. You're taking home $7,000.. $5,000 can't be going to taxes every month.

Well, a lot of it was going into 401K. So that's going to stop.

But you freed up that money. So you might be taking home $8,000 or $9,000..

Yeah, I'll be about $8,500 or $9,000..

Right. And so next year, my base salary will drop down to $127,000 and then I'll have about $10,000.

Okay, cool. So we're still working with $9,000 and you have $2,000 off the top that you have to pay. So now you're down to $7,000.. And then you got $3,000..

Actually, I take that back. I pay $3,000. amongst all those loans and stuff. $3,000 was what I paid. Sweet.

We're going to start knocking them out, smallest to largest.

I'm going to help you out with that, Chris. Hang on the line. We're going to send you every dollar premium. You're going to make a list. Income minus, expenses need to equal zero.

Hey, folks.

Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.

This is The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You can call us at 888-825-5225.. John is with us in Boston, Massachusetts.

Hi, guys. How are you doing today?

Doing good. What's up?

So, basically, I'm 37, married. I got three kids. One of our two reliable vehicles has started acting up, so I started looking at replacing it.

Does that make it the unreliable one?

I mean, that's hard to say. It's only a five-year-old vehicle, right? It should not be in this situation, but it is. It's a truck, and my transmission is essentially blown, so I can limp around town in it, but we're talking like a $7,000 repair. Right now, I owe $11,000 on the truck.

So you thought the solution was let me borrow more money to get out of this pickle.