a clothing designer's mind, a talk with emily bode [video]
2023-08-17 00:31:43
emma prefers to share her thoughts with a microphone rather than a physical human being, so thank god she has a podcast. recorded from the comfort of her bed...and some other fun places, emma talks at length about whatever is on her mind every week. anything really does go on this podcast. sometimes philosophy, sometimes a random story from 10 years ago, sometimes advice, sometimes fun interviews, and sometimes nothing at all. you never know what you are going to get, but that’s what keeps it interesting. new episodes every thursday and sunday, video available only on spotify.
Today, I'm going to be interviewing one of my favorite, if not my favorite, designers. She is the founder designer of her brand, Bodhi. Maybe by definition, Bodhi is a menswear brand, but Bodhi is very much more than that. Bodhi is a luxury brand with this sort of casual.
Vintage Eclectic Edge Her brand is truly the epitome of vintage-inspired clothing. Like she fucking nails it, Bodhi makes it feel like you plucked it out of a store in the 50s, you know? The brand really is helping to preserve the magical, beautiful craftsmanship of the past. That's kind of slowly dwindling out of our day-to-day life.
And Bodhi is really one of one I present to you, Emily Adams Bodhi Ajla, the creator of one of my favorite brands, Bodhi. Okay, I first found Bodhi at. It was a Vogue event, 2019 Paris Fashion Week that you were at. Yeah, it was a cocktail event, but then there was sort of like a shop.
I don't know if it was like a shoppable area, but it was kind of like a showcase of everything. And I found, you'll know, this shirt. It was like all of the little foods, and it was like a button-up. Oh, with the calorie counts, with the calorie counts on it, so, so good.
I remember I saw it and I was like, I've never seen anything like this, looks vintage, and it was like this whole mind-expanding moment.
For me, yeah, okay. So that print is a reproduction, which you can find that print as like hand-painted or like on kitchen kind of decor. So like, you see it on, like tea towels or aprons. Or the one that I reproduced was on a handkerchief. And to me, it was just like, so hilarious because it's so good.
How many calories are in, like coffee and carrots and really bizarre foods? But it's colorful and it's in a cotton voil, so it's like super thin. And people kind of went crazy for it because Harry wore it for.
Something, Yep, I remember this because I bought the shirt, and so, okay, listen, so I bought the shirt pre-Harry. Okay, everybody, listen up.
Pre-Harry, I bought the fucking shirt because I saw it at that event and then, like two weeks later, I saw it at opening.
Ceremony. And I was like, Think God, I'm so depressed about it, but that was a good shirt.
Amazing, yeah, was it like? I mean, obviously, when somebody like Harry Styles wears a piece of clothing? I think part of you is probably like, Fuck yeah, that's awesome. But then also part of you is probably like, Oh, shit. Because you know, a moment like that where somebody who has so much influence like Harry styles wearing something, it's going to skyrocket.
Things in a way, was that scary? Yeah, I mean, we're quite intentional with like, our runs. So I don't know about back then. But today it's like, that's one of like, 50, or one of 200, or one of two, or one of one.
He's just such an incredible Renaissance man that anything he wears, you know, I love when he wears our clothes. And you know, I truly value like our relationship. And so that's really inspiring to me, especially him. I'm really curious.
About like you as a young person, do you feel like the love for clothes came first or the?
Love for crafts came first, I think I would have to say crafts, because as a kid, I mean, as much as I was definitely a fashion obsessed kid. You know, I used to do like runway shows for my uncle and aunt. Like, you know, I have like videos of that, like visiting him in the south of France and like, you know, shredding down. Yeah, like that. That was definitely a part of my childhood, for sure. But I think the first understanding of aesthetics, or just building, like your world in general, came through craft.
And I really think largely through dolls, and probably through, um, like doll, furniture and, you know, making little things for that world. So I think that's where I think, that's where it came from for me, when.
Do you think your point of view, your strong point of view, really started to blossom? You know, when it comes to aesthetic things and creative things. And you know, even I've heard you discuss in in videos and things about. You know how you love collecting things, and you're such a collector. And and you do have such a distinct vision that is is so consistent. And I'm curious when that sort of became solid, like when, when was that really solidified? Was it when you were super young, like 12, or is it, you know, even more recent?
I mean, I do think I had a very distinct vision of, you know, the worlds I wanted to live in. The kind of the imaginative environments from when I was a really little kid, you know, the I found a notebook that I think I must've been like five or something, maybe a little older, but I was trying to explain that. Like, this dress came with this colored sash, and this colored dress came with this color. And I would have like these little drawings. And so I was always interested in that idea of making things, but also of selling things and having objects and a vision available for other people.
Well, it's interesting because a lot of people, I feel like just sort of discover, they're sort of calling later and they. They never saw it coming. I mean, you saw it coming, I think like you knew this was like your, this was just destined from day one. That's really special. What was like your go-to outfit as a kid?
I've always loved vintage, my mom saved all of her vintage, so it's not that necessarily. My mom's clothes, of course, are from when she was a kid, or vintage now, but she also was buying vintage with her sisters. So so I have things that they, like, had thrifted and bought at flea markets, and things that they had saved.
And I love that they had saved those things that I can now like, cherish and wear. And I've worn them, you know, throughout middle school and then in high school. I wore it and then, you know, now the t-shirt is no longer huge on me, but I have.
I love that moving on to a little later in your life college, so you went to Parsons, which is it's a design school, correct? I personally, I didn't go to college, so I'm always so curious about the impact that college has on, especially creative people. Because did going to college help you become more creative? By giving you sort of the technical tools to really, you know, create whatever you want?
Or do you feel like, in some ways, it might've actually kind of put you in a box in a way and made you feel? Because I think at school, you know, you're obviously taught a curriculum, right? That can sometimes kind of make you feel confined in a way. What was your personal experience?
Going, to, you know, an art school, well, for me, because I come from a place where I personally love institutional learning. I thrive in those environments, whereas it's definitely not for everybody interesting. And I think that, you know, especially when I talk to young people who are deciding their trajectory or what they want to do. I often believe in an older model that is not really around so much anymore, which is like the apprenticeship model. If you know for sure that you want to go into this thing. And you don't necessarily thrive in a more institutional educational environment, then you should apprentice or intern. You know, somewhere that you see fit.
But for me, Parsons, I did the dual degree program, so I did a bachelor's degree in philosophy and a bachelor of Fine Arts in fashion. And when you enter into the program, at least for the fine arts degree, you have a set of. I guess it's foundational learning, so like you mentioned, it's like providing you the skills to then make decisions. So it's like foundational skills of color theory and basic woodworking, things like that.
Do you do?
You find moments when, like, maybe you're working on a project and you end up going a direction that's the complete opposite of, like, what you learned in school. Like, does that?
Happen, of course, in art school. One really valuable thing I feel like I learned, which what you said reminds me of that is like, you have to learn to be able to throw something away. Because as somebody who is making stuff from such a young age, everything was so precious that you'd make. And then if it broke? And obviously, I come from a world in which I love preservation and saving things, so if something got destroyed, it would really affect me or lost. Whereas that's one of the first things that you learn at art school is like, they'll do this kind of little exercise where you draw something for like three hours and then you have to erase it.
Oh, that is so evil.
You don't know that you're going to do that. So I remember the first time that happened in my, you know, one of my drawing classes, I was like, No, I would like this one. Like, I understand what you're trying to teach me, but like, Do I really have to do this?
But, you know, those kinds of exercises then help you for even I think of that one often, you know? A bodhi where we do an embroidery layout and you're like, Oh, my gosh, or, you know, it's finished and someone did it by hand. Or they laid out all the buttons for something. And you're like, Oh, you have to unpick all that, and it's like, but you're gonna make it better. And totally, you know, it's the same idea of, like, painting over a painting, yep.
It's like, it's heart wrenching, but you know?
100 moving on to starting bodhi menswear. I love this. What made you want to start bodhi with menswear?
Okay, so when I was a kid, I didn't necessarily know that I wanted to be a fashion designer. I think I just knew that I wanted to work in fashion. I have a video of me from high school saying I wanted to be a stylist, you know, I think I just knew that this was like the industry I wanted to work in. But by the time I was in college, I really felt like more challenge designing for someone outside of myself.
I had a professor that tasked us with doing a menswear project. He truly was the first one to be like, you're actually really good at this. It's like, come so naturally to you, like, maybe this should be your track. And it made sense. Once it had kind of come to fruition, it definitely made.
Dressing my high school boyfriends and making clothes for everybody. That wasn't necessarily me, because for to make something for myself felt really simple. And yeah, I wasn't as interested, I was definitely more interested in making for the other, you know, whether it was like a specific character or a guy.
Personally, I'm super like I love masculine clothing, silhouettes, like I prefer them most.
The boxier fit like, I like, sort of like, maybe even the oversized whatever. Personally. Are you more drawn to masculine or feminine silhouettes, or kind of just both in whatever you like?
I was intrigued by doing workwear silhouettes, traditionally men's workwear silhouettes, because I wanted something that felt like extremely timeless. I mean, the whole launch of Bodhi, or you know why I started? It was to create a line of clothing that you could technically like. Or essentially take a picture of somebody and not know what time period they were from. Yes, whereas it's definitely a lot harder to do that with women's silhouettes.
Yep, and that was interesting to me that with menswear, you could really hone in on this idea of, like, a timeless silhouette or a timeless narrative. And then have clothes that would last forever, or that people would want to wear forever.
I'm curious, though, what you think, what makes something timeless?
It's different for everybody. Yeah, for me, it starts from the material we use, like natural materials, you know, whether it's cotton, linen or wool. And a lot of times, you know, those are traceable.
There's definitely a sustainability component to it. But also, you know when something is made of a certain material or has a certain finish to it. Like, what era it's from, or when it could have begun to be from? That doesn't mean that we don't use something like like viscose or rayons. We definitely have that in our collections, but I'd say the foundation of our brand is natural materials.
And that's why, you know, doing certain projects with certain suppliers and supply chains have been, like, so important to us. Because, after all, we are aiming at the preservation of craft, but also prolonging the life cycle of our clothes. And I think that's easier to do and to wrap your head around when when you're dealing with natural materials.
I want to do something futuristic. Do you ever have, like, a moment where you're like, Wait a minute, No, I want to do. I want to do something like, Does that ever cross your mind? or are you because I'm?
I'm similar to you, where I love vintage, I love all you know, all things sort of nostalgic and all things that have history. That's personally what I'm attracted to, too. But then every once in a while I'll have like, a weird fit where like, I want to dress like I'm in mad Max or don't know why, and I want to look like I'm an alien or something.
So I'm curious if you ever have that sort of like this like creative outburst where you're like, hold on, I want to break this whole mold. Or do you feel like you're you're in this world and you're so happy in this world? That?
You're never, like, restless. I don't think I really venture outside of No, but that's good. It's hard to tell because I feel like when I talk to my husband about this, sometimes he's like, I, you know, I love it. Like, I never saw that coming in the collection.
Like, you know, I love the way you make that, but I think the key is that, especially with having a brand. You know, you're put in a box, not by yourself, it's by the perception of the people, that are the consumers. So it's really interesting that they might say, like, Oh, that's so bodey, but then, you know, like, the trousers you're wearing are plain cashmere polo.
Is that Bodey still like, how do we get people to feel that, like all of these different worlds fall into the Bodey world? And you can do it. As a brand, I don't think you're beholden to like a specific.
Kind of vision. Do you ever feel pressure from, you know, the fans of your brand, to sort of create in a certain way? Do you do you experience that, or do you feel like you just?
No, of course. So you have to remember anybody who makes things. And we tell ourselves this all the time because we get comments, not just from customers, but like from stores and buyers and press. And if they knew what was best for your brand, then it just doesn't logically make sense. Because when I launched Bodey, these shirts made from these textiles and these silhouettes and the lace shirts, for example, none of that, I was told, would succeed. So, and yet it did.
And you have to remember that, I guess, you have to trust your own instincts and trust your own gut on that. Because it's it's really easy to be like, Oh gosh. This person has worked at this like incredible, historic department store for 15 years, and they worked here like 20 years before that, right? And it's really tempting to listen to those people and to like. Your top client wears the clothes so well or has 80 pieces of body. But at the end of the day, they're buying it because you made those decisions and you.
Yes, started that vision, so you have to take it with.
You know, with a grain of salt, do you wear only your own clothes? Because, honestly, I would if I was you. If I knew how to make clothes, I would not wear, I would just make what I want to wear.
Do you do you wear your own clothes? I do wear my own clothes, but I wear.
A lot of vintage. I'm not necessarily buying all of these to wear, though I am also buying them for inspiration. But I'd say, on any day. I mean, I try to wear a booty every day, too, because I think it's really important.
Totally, and even, you know, I tell like our employees to like. It's not just because I love seeing you in the clothes, but we learned so much about the clothes. Yes, like, Oh, gosh, like.
I love the red lining on the inside of our shoes, it definitely comes off on your socks. I'm like, who's annoyed by it? and who is like, you know? Because to me, I'm like, doesn't annoy me, because I love the lining, you know? But you learn so much about wearing the clothes, yeah.
And I think it's the best way, especially when you're starting out. It was the I think it was the most organic way for me to grow my business, and it was how I got really organic press. And totally from day one, you know, from wearing my own clothes.
How do you feel when you see people wearing the clothes? I mean, customers, but also celebrities too. That would be kind of interesting to see. Like, what celebrities? But although celebrities aren't special, they're also just like the regular customers. So fuck.
Does it feel to see people wearing the clothes? Oh, God, it's the best. I mean, I I truly think it justifies what you're doing, totally.
More than more, than even. Like winning a competition or an award, running into people wearing your clothes, especially not in your neighborhood. Oh yeah, it was one thing to. We opened a store on Hester Street and like, So, downtown New York, you know, you might go over to this coffee shop and you see a guy and then you might. Or if like, I recognize the client. Mm hmm.
That's super inspiring, but it's when you're like, driving on a random street. Oh, I can't imagine like there's a guy in a coffee shop wearing a shirt. It's bizarre.
You know, totally, and it's amazing and yeah, especially. I think a turning point for, like, the celebrity thing for me was, you know, when I first started, the only way for people to really.
Like through our office, right? Or maybe through like a handful of stores. Maybe there were like eight stores. And now that there's so many stores, we're kind of like, wait, so they didn't even go through like the press office. Like this person, just like, shopped it, you know? Yeah, and that makes you feel really good because they're actually like, people are actually buying it, absolutely.
You know, especially when, even when you're event dressing, where you could easily just ask for a press low, or, you know, like a press piece or a loan. Yeah, but if like your event dressing for red carpet. And you actually bought it from, like a random store and who knows where, that's. That's pretty incredible because it means that they've truly.
Fallen in love with the clothes? So you have a lot of vintage, you're very much a vintage collector. Do you feel like you get your inspiration? I mean, I'm assuming you get it from everywhere. Sort of. Treasure hunting and finding these antiques is the main source of your, of your inspiration.
Or would you say you also are like watching the movies and reading the magazines? Like, are you like going back in time, across the board? Or are you just more into the antique side of things? Like, I know, I guess my question is, are you sort of, in this world, fully like it's your entertainment?
It's your because I know some people sort of fully dedicate themselves to sort of their, their aesthetic or their theme, like, are you electricity? Yes, yes, yes.
I'm like, curious if that's like, if you know, the Spider-man movie comes out like, is that a little bit too modern? I can't see that, I can't see that.
Not, not, you know what I mean? Definitely not, no.
I, I, you know, my design practice is object based, like, for sure, you know, from tangible product, but I I love older movies, you know? That was one thing that really shocked me after doing some student critiques at a couple of colleges, was I actually feel like that is not as much in. I don't want to say in trend, but when I was in school, it was normal and encouraged. But like primary resources, so whether it was books or movies, or newspapers, or going to exhibitions, or working with catalogs.
And this was the first time that I had ever done, like senior crits, where people weren't necessarily doing that. Which I thought was kind of a shame. Because I learned so much about, you know, my place in the world, yeah, and who I am based on. You know, the histories, not just like my own family histories, my personal history, but by others and the cultures of others. So, yeah, going into designing a collection, I have the objects themselves that are super important to the inspiration process, but it's also the narrative, so it's I'm interviewing somebody.
Usually it's somebody who I can physically interview, sometimes it has been, you know, a family narrative that I'm referencing. But so that's like the intangible concept behind it, or the overarching concept. And then I have the artifacts and antiques and objects from another place. Wow.
So obviously, that sort of.
Creative process that you have to do twice a year, I'm assuming, or even more. Because there might be times when maybe you start it and then you're like, and then, you know, a lot of work. Do you enjoy the fashion industry? like, Obviously I feel like there's you can love fashion and hate the industry. I'm curious how you feel about the industry and maybe you have mixed feelings.
As we do about most things in life, but you know, what's your sort of feeling about the?
Industry itself, I mean, we definitely sit within the fashion industry we show on the Paris calendar. But, I mean, that being said, we are definitely not as much of a capital F fashion brand as a lot of brands that we might like sit with in Bergdorf Goodman.
You know, when I launched Modi, it was virtually unheard of that. You could sell one of a kind product on, like an essence or matches. Or that didn't exist, you know, I, you know. There were definitely brands who had done it, who had made product from antique materials, but it wasn't in the way in which we were doing it. I made the choice to be a part of the industry, like, yeah, I made the choice. I wanted to show on Paris Fashion Calendar, you know, from starting on the New York fashion Calendar. I wanted to sell in these stores because I, I loved that.
Like, I could have dreamt that I was going to be selling and like Sacks and Bergdorf, you know, as a kid and Barney's. And then that we actually made it happen. So that's like, a big part of who I am, you know, is is like hitting those goals.
I also think what's so even more sort of satisfying about it, I can imagine, is.
You didn't do what anyone else was doing, touching upon what we talked about earlier with, like taking advice from other people. When I launched, I remember this extremely important menswear guy coming to my studio. And he was like, there's no way these shirts are going to sell. They're too heavy, you know, cause I was making clothes out of well, I still do domestic textiles, so it's like tablecloths and yep.
And they're boxy and they, you know, they drape in a certain way, and they're short, and they're crotton. He was like, there's like, there's not a customer for that, right? And there totally is, and it's like, I, you know. That's an instance in which, like, you can't always listen to people because they just didn't they, they didn't know it yet.
Like, it wasn't a part of what they had ever sold before, so, of course, they couldn't imagine.
Selling it? I don't know if you can succeed and bring something new to the table unless you kind of flip off. Literally everyone who's succeeded before, who comes to you and says, you got to do it like this? Like, I don't think you can listen to anyone, cause I think the second you start kind of listening to everyone. Then you disappear into the abyss of what's already been done in a way.
Of course, and it's just, but it's so hard, like it's all. It's almost like the hardest test of, you know, like staying true to to what you want to be creating. It's it's why I think it's.
So hard, right? And what void are you trying to fill? You know, I think it's it's a really important question to ask, you know? I felt that it was really hard for guys to buy clothing, especially to buy vintage clothing and have it fit them. Or, you know, even last a certain amount of time.
And that was, you know, another impetus for launching the brand was filling this void of like, I have guy friends, you know, that loved wearing vintage, but it was like, Yeah, definitely a lot harder to shop vintage as a male. And so, you know, filling a place in the market was, you know, is a really good exercise to thinking like, how could I create a successful business? Like, does this already exist in the market? I'm curious to hear your thoughts about.
You know, sort of the internet's impact on the industry as a whole. I mean, there's this whole new phenomenon about like, no outfit repeating, like nobody outfit repeats on social media.
And that's the complete opposite of your ethos, you know what I mean, but do people like exclaim?
That, like, I don't repeat outfits, you know what? To be honest, no, it's like a silent.
Okay, okay, it's not like people, well, there's probably, listen, it's like a social rule, or?
Something, yeah, it's become, I mean, there's a lot of people now that are sort of like, completely.
But even, you know, growing up in the age of social media, as I did, it started when I was like 14. And all of a sudden, like, the girls were all like, we're posting on Instagram or we're like, going to the dance. And it's like, I can't wear that because I've already worn that. And it was something that sort of stemmed from social media. Somehow, I don't know, maybe it's like seeing celebrities constantly in a new outfit, never in the same outfit. And then my generation was like, Okay, so now, you know, a lot of us are unlearning it.
Me too.
I think, like, one way for me to say how I've experienced that is with like, event dressing.
Yes, I noticed that.
It's the same thing like you can't wear, I mean, you can, you can, but you don't traditionally wear the same dress. Unless it's like, years apart, you know, to events if you're going to do red.
Wear the same dress you wore to the event last week.
Celebrities get weird sometimes because they're like, I'm not wearing that, because she wore that and the people are going to be like, that's. That's kind of what I thought of, like, you know, which I do get. Because then it's like, everybody's making a collage on Instagram, like who wore it better? And then it's a nightmare.
Well, some people do it purposefully, too, yes, because they do the who wore it, but and they know they'll do the who wore it better.
Which is kind of fun, and if they know that, they're going to wear it better.
Yeah, it's all, yeah, but you, you have. Yeah, that's yeah, Catty.
Yeah, that's the women's wear world that, like, I'm not so into, yeah, but it is. I mean, it's crazy, cause like a men's are like men's clients, you know, we have, we dress a lot of people for their weddings.
Those guys are wearing their wedding suits like every event after their wedding. Forever, you know, yeah, and I mean, even with like Aaron, like, he wears his wedding tux all the time, you know. And like, that's totally normal, but I think that's that's more of like a basic tuck.
So I think it's like, if you have, like, a perfect black dress, maybe you can get away with it. But but yeah, it's an interesting concept. And you're right, I'm sure social media has only like fueled that. I guess I, yeah, I guess I don't post enough on, like, my personal Instagram to really even think about, did I wear that dressing? yeah.
But I it goes through my head for events. I, you know, I passed you in the Met Gala line and I was like, I should say something. No way, wait, you were there. Well, yeah.
Cause I did red carpet and then I was like, Oh man, she's like, literally in interviews, I was like, I'll see her, I'll see her in a little bit.
To be honest, I, I get, I'm so blacked out in that setting, I'm like, I'm just like full robot mode. Who knows how pleasant that would have been? I think I'm in a much more pleasant.
Year, um, you also always forget that. Not, I mean, of course, your interviews are being filmed, but, like everybody on the carpet is being filmed, about to go on the carpet.
Oh, well, that was new. Oh, that's never so they. They decided to move the camera from the top of the steps to the bottom. So everyone's in the back being filmed, cause some drama, yeah.
Yeah, well, what's next for you? what's next for you? What are you excited about?
I'm really excited for women's wear, that's pretty exciting to me, huge cause we're going to learn so much. Like this first season, you know, some things might like, fail terribly, or some things might sell out really quickly.
That, like, we didn't expect. And that's always really exciting because I worked retail for so long, like throughout college and after college, and that learning experience is so valuable to a brand.
And I'm excited to see what happens there, it's going to be huge. And I mean, do you think? do you think designing for women's wear is now designing for you?
It's probably more so the women in my family, it's like my mom and her sisters when they were young. At least. That's what this last collection was, and I think that's the entire identity of the Bodie.
Woman is my mom and her sisters. I love that. I'm going to be wearing all of it.
Can't wait. Thank you for coming in and flying here. For me. I mean, like, Oh my gosh, of course, I'm honored. thank you for coming in and flying here.
For me, I mean, like, Oh my gosh, of course, I'm honored, thank you for coming in and flying here. For me, I mean, like, Oh my gosh, of course.
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