The Perfect Life

Tonight on Dateline.

I'm innocent. I've always been innocent.

A dramatic new turn in a riveting case.

The way I was portrayed, that's not how it went down at all. I want the truth to come out.

You come home from school, and your mom is missing.

Yeah. You don't know what to do, you don't know how to behave. I was told that a body was found. It is my wife. Law enforcement were just so focused on him.

I am her closest friend. I betray her in the worst way, and she's gone.

Did your dad say anything to you, like, I didn't do this?

Yes, he did, and I believe him. He's a master manipulator.

How certain were you that Remy Ramsaran killed his wife? No doubt in my mind.

We discovered that under Jennifer Ramsaran's fingernails was male DNA.

A wife murdered, a husband accused, and an ending that you won't see coming. I'm Lester Holt, and this is Dateline.

Has anyone ever described you as quirky or odd or a goofball?

Absolutely.

At Dateline, we meet a lot of big talkers, but few as big as Remy Ramsaran.

If there's one thing about me, I can talk to anyone. Any question, ask me. I'll be more than happy to provide.

He had lots to say about his happy life in his tiny upstate, New York town.

I had the perfect life. I have everything anyone would want.

And when tragedy struck and the details of his so-called perfect life came tumbling out, Remy kept talking.

Here's the thing. I have truth on my side. I don't have any deep, dark secrets.

Now, a decade after we first spoke to him, Remy has more to say. You don't have any regrets about saying that?

None whatsoever. Don't take my word for it. Hang on.

So this is new information?

This is absolute new information.

New discoveries, new evidence, and a brand new ending.

Bombshell. Bombshell.

To understand how we got here, we need to go back to a cold winter night.

Okay, tell me exactly what happened.

It was evening, and his wife, Jen, should have been home from a shopping trip.

I remember seeing my mom that morning. I gave her the hug in the morning, and then I went to go make my breakfast and lunch.

Glenn, the middle child of three, was 10.

My dad drove us.

Just like any other day?

Yeah.

Remy got back from dropping the kids off around 8 a.

When I came home, Jen was eating Chobani yogurt and Kashi cereal at the table, and she was on her iPod Touch. And then I went to the living room, and I sent some e-mails and certain things to that effect.

Remy was a project manager for IBM, who worked from home most days. Jen took care of the house and kids.

That morning, she was supposed to go to Syracuse.

The mall in Syracuse was a bit of a drive, but it had all the nice stores, and she wanted to get their daughter a new dress for Christmas.

Gave me a kiss on the cheek, and then she left.

Left in her red Chrysler minivan. The mall was 60 miles away through winding backcountry roads. Not an easy drive, especially in winter.

It gets dark, kind of early, and Jen doesn't like driving in the dark and stuff, and she was supposed to be home like around 4, 35 o'clock-ish anyways.

When do you start to get a little worried?

Right around that time, once it started getting dark.

Remy had been texting Jen all day with no response. He checked in with her best friend, Eileen Sayles.

Well, he actually called me that night. she didn't come home and asked if I had heard from her, and I said no.

What are the scenarios playing out in your head?

Car accident was the big one. I really thought some type of car accident.

That's when Remy made that call to 911.

Have you attempted to cell phone? Oh yes, that's how I've been trying to call her. I've called her numerous times and texted her, and no response. I told them. the reason I'm worried is I haven't heard from her since about 11 when she left, which is highly unusual.

Well, I think it would be normal for most people to start to be concerned after nine hours.

Detective Richard Cobb worked for the Chenango County Sheriff's Office. This was just a trip to the mall. She should have been home by then.

Yeah, she should have been home.

Officers started looking up accident reports, checking hospitals.

Had there been a crash, or maybe her vehicle broke down, and some other police agency had stopped to assist her, and she was on her way back, but that wasn't the case in this one.

Are you able to sleep at all?

Oh, no, I was up all night.

The next morning, the kids woke up with questions. What are you told?

You know, she went shopping or she's not back yet. My reaction wasn't too severe, because she's my mom. Nothing's going to happen to her. Mom will probably be home by the time you guys come home from school. She'll probably still have shopping and stuff.

Did you believe that?

That's what's my hope.

But did you believe it?

I didn't know what to believe.

I was concerned. I needed to know what happened.

Remy also called his best friend, Jason Wicks.

After he told me about Jen missing, I was talking with some of the guys at work. A couple people asked me if they had tried the Find My iPhone app. So I called him. Remy, did you try this?

He hadn't. So after driving the kids to school, Remy headed straight to the police department. While talking with the police chief, Remy tried the Find My iPhone app.

And lo and behold, it connected to her iPhone.

You figured out where her iPhone was?

Yeah, right there at the police station with him. And it looked like the phone was moving. And I was freaking out.

The spot was almost 20 miles outside of town.

It did show a location of Jennifer's phone on 23, at the intersection of Moon Hill Road and the town of Plymouth.

Officers headed there, looked around, didn't find anything. So Remy decided to go look for himself. He got out of the car and opened the app.

I'm hitting the play sound, play sound. And it's a high, shrieking, loud sound. And I walked the bank, and I didn't hear anything yet. And then I crossed the street, and I started hearing it. And I looked, and then I saw it.

It was the first big clue in the mystery of what happened to Jen Ramsaran. And it launched a saga that would consume this small town for longer than anyone imagined.

You've got a love triangle. You've got DNA. You've got some blood evidence.

That's twisted, very twisted.

That's a mysterious element to this.

It is a mysterious element. There's no words for it. I've never seen anything like it.

Jen Ramsaran had apparently gone out shopping and didn't return. The only clue in her disappearance was her phone, ditched off the side of the road. Her husband, Remy, was the one who found it.

I found my wife's iPhone. I'm on Moon Hill Road in South Plymouth. I haven't touched it. I can see it from here.

Where exactly was it found?

It was kind of right over in that area. It's a little more weedy now than it was then. But it was amongst some weeds, some shorter weeds and some rocks.

You must have felt like we have a key piece of evidence pretty quickly in this disappearance.

You know, obviously it was key evidence. It was the first real physical clue that we had in the investigation.

Remy called Jen's best friend Eileen with the news.

He said, I found her phone. And I said, oh my God. I couldn't believe it. My heart sunk.

Did you think something sinister had happened?

Absolutely.

But to investigators, a ditched cell phone could mean anything.

This was, for all intents and purposes, an adult woman who may have just left her life on a whim.

Police treated it as a missing persons case, checked hospitals and searched roadside accident reports, but didn't immediately launch any large-scale physical searches. Jen's father went looking himself, driving around anywhere he could think of, up and down country roads, looking for a sign of his daughter or her van. She'd been missing five days when he saw something.

9-1-1,. what's the address of your emergency?

It was Jen's red van. It had been abandoned here in this apartment complex, eight miles from her house. That must have been just an awful, awful discovery for her father.

I'm sure it was.

Investigators arrived on the scene. The van was empty, but inside they found spots of blood. Now that the van has been found, and it's clear that something bad has happened to Jen, are all your worst fears being realized?

Absolutely.

I was scared to death.

It was the big news. I mean, this is such a small town.

Pat Newell is a local newspaper reporter and friend of the family. The story hit home for him and a lot of people around town.

A woman with three children has gone missing right around Christmas, so it was right at the heart of the most, probably the most joyous time of the year, and this is what the police are dealing with.

Jen and Remy Ramsaran lived a quiet life here in the backwoods of upstate New York. Their town, New Berlin, is so small, it barely registered 1,000 people in the last census.

It's the stereotypical small-town living. We had a great house. It was a lot of fun, family gatherings.

This is a great place to raise a family.

Absolutely. We found a beautiful home right next to Chenango Lake.

Remy and Jen had been married 13 years. They were college sweethearts. What was it that you fell for the most about her?

Her personality. It was special.

She was so friendly, and you felt instantly comfortable with her.

Jen and Eileen met through their daughters in Girl Scouts, and the two families had become close.

We would say good morning to each other. on text. She'd either say it or I would say it first.

It's so nice when you can find someone like that.

It is. I mean, she was always there for me, always. No matter what I needed.

To Eileen and everyone who knew the couple, Jen was Remy's opposite. She was sweet and quiet. He was loud and boisterous.

There's so many people that would walk up to my wife and go, I'm so sorry. How do you put up with him?

Has anyone ever described you as quirky or odd or a goofball?

Absolutely, including Jen and probably anyone that's ever met me.

Remy is a real force.

Yes, we knew when he walked in the room. At some points, you're like, oh, here comes Remy, you know. Yeah, he's loud.

Their opposites attract relationships somehow just worked. Jen's friend Teresa Leiser says Jen seemed happy and busy being a stay-at-home mom to her three kids. That's pretty much the biggest thing that she talked about was her kids. Jen was a Sunday school teacher. Yes.

26 marathons, and I was sponsored.

In one year? Yeah. 26 marathons. Yes, ma'am. You would go with him as a family when he would run the marathons?

Yeah, most of the time. I ran a 5K and then a 10K. the day after that, when I was, I want to say around 11.. I think I was 11.. I was the youngest person there doing the 10K.

Remy also got his wife's friend Eileen into marathons.

We started working out, and then he had mentioned running.

But as Remy spent more time training for marathons, Jen immersed herself in a competition of her own. She started playing an online game called Kingdoms of Camelot, where players from all over the world take on medieval rules and team up to wage battles together.

She would show me pictures of her castle and her kingdom that she was building on the phone.

Do you remember your mom playing the game Kingdoms of Camelot?

I'd see her on her laptop a lot, but I don't know what she was playing.

The game had Jen in touch with strangers from all over the Internet, and now Jen was gone.

The first thing I thought was these people on the game.

Which could be a recipe for disaster.

Right. And that's what I thought in my heart.

But it was more than just a theory. Eileen knew a secret, the kind only a best friend would know.

They are the families of the missing in America. And they're desperately searching for answers.

Somebody knows something.

I'm Josh Bankos. Join me for Season 3 of Missing in America. Listen carefully, because just one small detail might allow you to solve a mystery.

We have seen miracles happen.

Dateline. Missing in America. All episodes available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Never miss a moment of the 2024 Olympic Games from Paris. For in-depth coverage of the athletes, events, and medal counts, download the NBC News app.

While Remy Ramsaran spent much of 2012 running marathons,

She just wanted to be on her game. And I would joke around about, Jen, you know, come back to the real world, you know, pull yourself out of that game. She was definitely sucked into it.

She was checking out a little bit.

Very much so.

It started turning into addiction. And she was on it quite a lot. Close to eight hours a day, maybe more. Even in the evenings.

Did you feel like you were losing your mom a little bit because she was on the computer so much?

She stopped coming to the living room to watch, you know, the family shows. She became more and more withdrawn.

She wasn't cooking, you know. They were ordering out every night. You know, I did their laundry one night because it was just so stacked up. The kids didn't have anything. And I said, you want me to do your laundry?

While on a recent shopping trip together, Eileen says all Jen could talk about was her game and the new friends she was making online. There was one player in particular, a British man named Rob.

And she would joke around about, you know, things they would talk about, you know, because in England it's different than it is here. So different. And I think she liked that.

Eileen says Jen confessed that the online friendship had turned flirtatious. She even knew what kind of cologne he wore.

We swung into the mall, and she wanted to smell his cologne. And we did. We smelled his cologne.

Had her appearance started to change?

A little bit. But it wasn't an everyday thing. It was just randomly. One day I would stop by, and she had makeup on. She said she was taking pictures of herself.

And he's in England.

Yeah. I said, what if he does come up here? And she kind of giggled.

Now, with Jen missing, Eileen felt she had no choice but to tell the police. Did you think that perhaps this man, this quasi-stranger, had come all the way to New York and just wanted to meet her? that badly?

You know, I didn't know. I didn't know if he was really from England. What if he was closer? You know, people lie online all the time.

Did you feel the need to get in touch with this Rob immediately?

We worked to do that almost from the start. We sent him messages through the gaming app. You know, this is the Chenango County Sheriff's Office. Jennifer's been reported missing. We're wondering if you had any contact with her.

Turns out Rob was in the U.

Well, Jennifer had sent some sort of lingerie, and he had sent her, I believe it was $150, that she never picked up.

Did he express what that money was for?

I believe it was for her to buy herself a gift. You know, this is early December. It's close to Christmas time.

Rob and Jen had talked about meeting in person, but he insisted he hadn't been anywhere near New York when she disappeared. In fact, he said he'd been worried too, wondering why Jen hadn't been online for days. As the detective worked to check out his story, Eileen broke the news to Remy about his wife's online romance.

When I told him, he was furious. You know, he's, what? You know, she was, I said, you know, this man online knows where she lives.

An emotional. Remy spoke to Jen directly on the local news.

I don't think you ever, ever knew how much, how much we care for you and how much you're loved.

Remy says that, despite the blood evidence, he clung to hope that Jen was still alive. He posted frequent updates on Facebook. He was alone with three kids, and I thought he was grasping at anything that he could get to feel like. maybe his wife was out there still. Are you asking your dad, where's mom?

He always told us we'll find her, and we did, I mean, various things, like, you know, awareness. I remember one time we were lighting a bunch of lanterns, and it got on the news. There's no doubt in my mind, I've said it before, there's no doubt in my mind that we're not going to see her again. There's no doubt in my mind.

Winter snow was blanketing the town, and underneath it all, another secret. Some people are going to remember you as being the worst kind of friend to Jen.

You know, you can't take back what you've done.

Jen Ramsaran had been flirting with a guy she met playing an online game. She confessed to her friend that she'd even sent him lingerie in the mail.

The lingerie, that really bothered me that she had sent that. I thought that was serious.

Remy felt betrayed, but he didn't get much sympathy from his best friend, Jason. That's when he realized that Jen was cheating on him, That's because Jason knew that Remy also had a secret.

Why were you so mad at the possibility that she was having an affair? And I was like, Remy, you've been having an affair yourself.

That's right. Mad, as he was about Jen's online romance, Remy had been cheating on her, and with the last person on earth she would ever expect.

In my heart and in my stomach, I knew it was wrong.

This is your wife's best friend, the Girl Scout troop leader.

Oh, yes. Very bad thing.

The affair between Remy and Eileen began nearly a year before Jen disappeared. They'd been spending lots of time together training for marathons. That's when Remy had an epiphany while running in the Arizona heat.

And it was one of the first marathons I wanted to try and run without drinking a drop of water. I eventually got that done. Challenged myself. There was like streaks of salt on my back, and I started cramping up and hurting, but I didn't give up. I'm still going.

Will tomorrow be too late?

And as I'm running, my mind just drifted. And that song hit home. And I love that song. And the person that came to my mind was Eileen.

It's this man in the middle of a desert, running without water, who realizes that you're the real love of his life.

I didn't know that.

A few weeks later, Remy told Eileen he was falling for her.

I asked her if I could kiss her, and I did. And we both felt extremely guilty.

And did you kiss him back?

I did. And then I left, just like that. Sat in my car for a minute, thinking, what did I just do?

Some people would have been.

Shocked.

Shocked and said, what are you doing? Jen's, my best friend. Why are you doing this?

Right.

What was your gut telling you?

My gut was telling me, no, you can't do this. It's wrong.

Still, not long after that first kiss, they took the relationship to the next level. Did you feel any guilt consummating this relationship in the house that you share with your wife?

I know I should say yes, but I didn't. Jen, and I had already grown apart.

Did you talk to Jen about getting a divorce?

Yes. Oh, yes. A handful of different times.

For Eileen, at least, it was more than just physical. Even though she was married with kids herself, she was falling in love with Remy.

To feel that someone cared like he did. Everyone wants to feel that importance.

What was it about him that you were so attracted to?

His personality was huge. I mean, always lifted you up. Always made you feel important. I felt invincible.

Eileen says Remy's confidence was intoxicating. So was his good job and generosity. So also during this time, he's buying you clothes? Mm-hmm. With some rules attached?

I could not wear them around Pat.

Your husband? Right.

He was not allowed to see me, and there were a lot of running clothes, you know. I was not allowed to wear them in front of him.

Did you abide by those rules? Yes, I did. Why? How did he have this power over you?

I don't know. I really honestly, unfortunately, one of my bad characters is I'm a very weak, weak person.

Eileen says they would get together whenever they could slip away from their jobs and kids. That's a lot of sneaking around.

Yeah, I couldn't take it. I couldn't, it was too much. It got to be too much.

Did he say to you, I'm going to divorce Jen?

He said it, yeah.

Did that make you happy?

No. No, because I knew it would hurt her.

During the affair, Eileen separated from her husband and moved out, though he was in the dark about why. Then, a few weeks before Jen went missing, Eileen broke it off with Remy and moved back home. But she and Remy weren't completely done. In fact, they were together the day before Jen went missing.

We did have sex. I did not want to further the relationship at that point.

How did he handle that?

You know, he gets upset. You know, he wants what he wants.

An affair with a best friend. What would investigators think? That's kind of a bombshell.

It's a big bombshell, yes.

Eileen's affair with Remy had lasted for nearly a year, something she'd been hiding from her husband, Pat and her best friend Jen. But after Jen went missing, Eileen knew she had to come clean to the police.

I needed to help Jen. I needed them to find her, and I would do anything to help them at that moment.

How did they react to you when you told them that you were having an affair with Remy? You're having an affair with your best friend's husband, and your best friend is missing. Mm-hmm.

You know, they really weren't.

You must have been so nervous, though, because this is the first time you're openly talking about this affair to someone other than Remy.

Mm-hmm, yeah, and I was nervous that, you know, Pat's going to find out at this point, and here comes my world, and now my family's going to know that I deceived them, too.

But she wasn't alone at the police station. Remy was there, too, right by her side. Though he initially lied and told investigators his marriage was fine, he quickly fessed up.

I don't have anything in my life to feel embarrassed about, except that. You know, yes, Eileen and I fell in love, but I don't have any deep, dark secrets.

That one's pretty deep.

It is what it is, but besides that, there is no.

But you're wife's best friend, and she's gone missing. That's a bombshell.

I don't.

Word does get around, I don't think his affair was as secret as he thought it was.

Is this the classic have-to-look-at-the-spouse?

I wouldn't say, in this case, this was the classic look at the spouse.

You know, so were others.

It was as much to rule him out as it was to rule him in. at that point. We needed to clarify a couple of things. You know, one about his whereabouts and what he was doing on the morning of December 11th.

Remy went over the details of that morning with investigators.

Dropped the kids off, came back home between 8.

Remy said Jen left to go shopping around 10.

Anybody who was a suspect in the beginning of the investigation, Rob and anybody else that she may have had contact with.

The detective asked U.

I've told that to the police many times, many times.

And do you think it was a direct link to these online games?

Absolutely.

Do you think she was having an affair?

I can almost guarantee it. In fact, that's what I believed happened. on December 11th. She went to go meet someone.

Even if she had not met up with Rob from the U.

Mm-hmm, and the lingerie. I thought, well, did she do that to someone else? You know.

While Eileen was wondering about that, investigators were wondering about her. Why was Eileen a possible suspect?

Just because of her relationship, or her involvement with Jennifer and Mr. Ramsaran. Generally you would think a husband or a male might commit murder, but women can also.

Police asked Eileen to take a polygraph test. The results were inconclusive.

And they spun it around on me. You know, said I was lying. And I wasn't. And I was truthful from the beginning. And all I wanted to do was help.

If you're being open about the affair, what did they think you were lying about?

You know, they would ask questions. You know, where were you on such and such a day? I was working. You know, yeah, I met up with him.

Police investigated the case as a potential homicide, even though Jen was still officially a missing person. Now you've got the van, you've got the phone, but you still have no body. Right. Is that frustrating?

It was very frustrating to not be able to find her.

That was about to change, along with another discovery. What was and wasn't on these security cameras?

Ooh.

Wow. So this could be your ace in the hole.

And not just ad-free. You also get early access to new intriguing mysteries and exclusive bonus content. So what were you afraid of? Dateline Premium. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or datelinepremium.com.

You ready for what's coming?

The disappearance of Jen Ramsaran had officially been a missing person case for two and a half months. February 26, 2013,. that all changed.

11 o'clock at night, I get a phone call, and the police tell me they're downstairs. I went downstairs, I unlocked the door, and that's when I was told that a body was found. It is my wife? Are you sure? That was heart-wrenching.

Heart-wrenching.

How did you tell the children?

I called all three kids into the master bedroom, and I told the kids,

Wow, that's so devastating.

You grow up fast,

Jen's body had been discovered on an embankment about 20 miles from her house.

The snow had started to melt and settle enough that part of her became exposed.

She had no clothes on?

Right, she was found naked. I sent people out here, and the scene was secured until we were able to get the forensic people here to process it.

It was awful, the grief. And I knew at this point there's no telling her. I'm sorry.

What really frustrates me, Jen's body was found just a little over 3 miles away from where that phone was.

You feel the police should have looked harder?

Absolutely, even a helicopter, something.

On the day Jen's body was found, Remy called the local news media back to his house.

Gotta be strong for the kids, make sure they're okay. There's a lot of cabin, and we'll figure it out.

Despite Remy's tears, one by one, folks around town began to turn against not just him, but Eileen too. They soon realized they hadn't kept their secret. very well. Were you wearing a scarlet letter? Absolutely.

They were saying I was involved somehow, you know, and that crushed me. And I couldn't stand up for myself. There's nothing I can say to make anyone believe me. And why would they? It felt awful.

Did you start to talk about being together permanently?

I would go over, make sure everyone was okay, if they needed anything, you know.

Did he want you to?

He did. Why wouldn't you? No, it's not necessary. You know, the kids are going through so much. You need to focus on the children.

Back then, Glenn didn't think there was anything strange about his mom's best friend being around their house.

I saw her frequently. Like, some days after school, she would just be there with her kids. I was more than happy to play with her daughters.

Could you tell if anything was going on with your dad and Eileen at that time?

I kind of assumed, but there was no inherent, like, proof that I had, as.

How did that make you feel, assuming that, that they were together?

I hadn't harbored any hate for it. It wasn't anything like it was... It didn't make me upset, but I didn't feel good. Like, my mom, will always be my mom, and I love her.

Glenn says his dad tried to protect him and his sisters from all the attention the investigation created.

I knew that he was experiencing some major sadness.

He was trying to keep things as normal as possible, would you say?

Yeah, he was trying to make sure we were all happy and as well off as we could be.

At home, he may have been shielding his kids, but online, Remy was outspoken. He started saying things about Jen, like, you know, well, she wasn't really a mother for the past 6 months. She was, she had disconnected herself from the family. He seems like a total over-sharer. Yes, yes, over-shared everything.

He was using social media and news media to kind of get his message out.

What message was he trying to get out in the media?

That Jennifer had changed, that she wasn't, you know, the mother or wife or housekeeper or cook that she used to be.

Trying to deflect off of himself?

Is that what he believed?

Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, and put this on Jennifer.

For investigators, the key to ruling Remy out or in meant corroborating his timeline from that day. He told the detectives he saw Jen leave to go shopping around 10.30 a.m.

We started looking through her cell phone information, we found out that her cell phone last connected to the home Wi-Fi network at 10.

This is a red flag for you, that her phone is clearly at home when she's not supposed to be.

Right, it's hard for him to explain.

What else was starting to bother you?

Well, we were starting to collect different surveillance videos from various convenience stores, banks, anywhere along the route that Mr. Amstram claimed he ran from the residence to the YMCA.

Turns out, Remy wasn't on any of them. But he was on tape here, stretching, before entering the Y at 12.42 p.m.

So his alibi of running this certain route appears to be false. So we have all these things that are now taking the focus off. this could be anybody and putting it really on, Mr. Amstram.

Investigators now believed Remy lied about what he was doing the morning Jen disappeared. As for Eileen, the detective was able to verify her alibi for the time Jen disappeared. She was at work that morning, but not that afternoon. Both she and Remy told investigators this. After his run, Eileen picked Remy up from the Y and dropped him off at home.

We still had the question, though, that Eileen picked Mr. Amstram up from the YMCA shortly after 1 o'clock that afternoon.

He wondered if she wasn't involved in the actual murder, maybe she was somehow involved in the cover-up. Did you still think that maybe she knew all along what had happened?

That was still a possibility that she had some kind of guilty knowledge.

They thought I wasn't giving them everything, in which I was. You know, if I had more, I would have given it. I would have given anything to help.

Eileen says it was clear investigators were trying to build a murder case against Remy.

And I just said no, that, you know, I'm not believing that.

Remy could be controlling.

Yeah.

But just, in your eyes, not controlling enough where he would take his own wife's life. No.

That never even crossed my mind.

But it certainly crossed investigators' minds, especially when they found a bloodstain on Remy's sweatshirt, the one he was wearing the day Jen disappeared. Then, 3 months after Jen's body was found, more forensics came in with the autopsy report. What was the medical examiner able to tell you?

Well, he was able to rule out any natural cause for her death, any toxicological cause for her death. He ruled out suicide, and he didn't find any accidental cause. So, I mean, essentially, you're left with homicide.

What would that leave, strangulation, if there's no visible marks on the body?

Strangulation or suffocation would be possibilities, yes.

I get a phone call. Can you come on down? We have those medical results. We'll finally get to talk to him and tell you exactly what happened.

Well, we wanted one more shot at interviewing Mr. Ramsurant.

This time, investigators didn't hold back.

I told you, I always have!

May 17, 2013,, 6 months after Jen Ramsurant had gone missing, her husband, Remy, was back talking with detectives, and it wasn't friendly. What's the truth? What do you have in there?

I have the truth. Did you kill Jen?

You had something?

I never. You did. Your alibi is bull.

And clearly, I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know why you think you're on camera, running past these places. You're not.

I don't know why you cannot get that in your head, Remy.

The camera doesn't lie. The person does. And you're the one lying about it. I'd like to leave. No, you're not leaving.

Booked that same day?

Oh, yeah. Not just booked. Perp walk, from a block away, straight through, in chains and manacles and leg irons, the whole ball of wax. I get pulled into the elementary office, and my grandparents are there to pick us up.

And, I mean, how do they even.

I don't even remember how they explained it to me. I just know they probably did. There's just, you know, skips in time that I don't have any particular memory of.

Eileen saw it on the news. You want to believe that Remy is incapable of this?

Absolutely.

A man you've loved, or loved?

Absolutely.

By the time they arrested Remy, investigators were convinced Eileen had been telling the truth.

There was no evidence that she had any involvement in Jennifer's homicide.

But from behind bars, on a recorded jail, line, Remy was calling her, a lot.

Oh, my girl, oh. That's what, you know, I close my eyes and I imagine what you're wearing and stuff, you know? Mm-hmm. I miss you terribly.

I miss you.

What does he want to talk about?

He wanted to know what I was doing, trying to talk me to move into the house. Still, at this point.

Do me one favor, right? When you get back from Potsdam, are you really, honestly going to move in? finally? Yeah, probably.

And I would almost agree, yes, yes, you know, just so the phone calls would stop a little bit. And, you know, it's strange, I felt guilty that he was in jail. Because part of me thought, there's no way, there's no way he hurt her.

When did you start to have doubts that what you had believed all along maybe wasn't really what happened, that maybe Remy was somehow involved?

His dad called me and said they found blood on his sweatshirt. And I thought, okay, but I'm thinking back, I'm thinking to their house and how messy the house was. And, you know, I'm thinking, maybe it's old blood. Just little things were starting to play in my head, and it scared me.

Were you starting to live in rewind? Mm-hmm. Going back over every moment, every word? Eileen slowly cut off all contact with Remy as his case went to trial.

The case will be about the murder of Jennifer Ramsoran.

Remy's trial began in September 2014.

I think that the defendant was obsessed with his girlfriend, Eileen Sales. He was constantly asking Ms. Sales to leave her husband so that they could be together. So when December 11th rolled around, it was time for him to get rid of his wife.

The D.

Yeah.

He called you around 2,000 times?

Yeah, I had no idea. it was that much.

Remy's friend, Jason testified for the prosecution. He told the jury Remy planned to divorce Jen and keep custody of the kids.

I mentioned to him that Jen would end up getting the kids, and he was very confident that he would be the one that had the kids. I kept telling him, I was like, I don't think that's exactly how it's going to play out.

Jennifer was going to get custody, and why is that important? That gives him another reason, another motive to kill his wife.

Eileen was the centerpiece of the prosecutor's case. He called her to the stand where she faced Remy in court. How difficult was it for you to testify?

It was very hard. You know, who wants to talk about their sex life in front of so many people, and for it to be written in the papers for your kids to read?

She testified about the day Jen disappeared, how Remy called her and asked for a ride home from the gym, then said goodbye outside of his house.

He got out, he said, I know you're busy, and never invited me in, nothing.

Eileen told the jury she was trying to break up with Remy, but the two had been intimate the day before. And now it seemed odd that he didn't try again that afternoon.

And that's one of the things that, looking back, why didn't he invite me in?

The defendant was always interested in sexual relations. when he was alone with his girlfriend. That afternoon, the defendant didn't ask her to come into the house to be alone, so they could be together.

The prosecutor told the jury Remy had been lying to the police all along. Remy said he was working on his computer that morning, but a forensic expert testified that couldn't be true.

In examining the computers, the expert said that there was no work done during those hours. Once again, the defendant's story doesn't match the evidence. In our theory of the case, the defendant had killed his wife, probably in the bedroom, and he was using that time to plan his cover-up and to make sure that he got rid of the evidence against him. And at 11.30 or 11.15 approximately, the defendant left the scene with the body of his wife in the van. And then he drove the van out to where he dumped the body.

Police testified that when they examined the phone, it was in perfect condition.

There wasn't any damage, so to us that said that somebody had actually come down here and placed the phone.

McBride said that after planting the phone and dumping the van at the apartment complex, Remy, the runner jogged a short mile to the YMCA.

Where he was shown on the videotape for the first time, walking into the Y, stretching his arms, acting as if nothing was wrong.

And the DA reminded the jurors that it was Remy who found the phone the next day.

I found my wife's iPhone.

I found it, come on down, I'm going to wait for you. Found it, because he put it there.

McBride called a former person of interest to testify, Rob from England. Over Skype, he told the jury he became alarmed that morning when, like a ghost, Jen disappeared in the middle of their Kingdoms of Camelot game.

She left the game and had never been heard from since. 15 minutes later, the gentleman from London sent her a text message, where did you go? That message was never replied to. Why is that important? Because she never, ever left the game before.

The DA believed that was a key moment that tied his theory together. Remy caught her playing the game in bed and snapped, killing her right there in the bedroom. Investigators even found a spot of blood on the mattress, and there was that bloodstain on the sweatshirt. Remy wore that day.

And the DNA on that blood spot was also partially Remy's, and it was partially Jennifer's, and that was powerful.

But Remy was about to make his case right to the jury. What would they make of his story?

I had the perfect life. I had a wife, I had a girlfriend, I had kids. I had everything anyone would want.

They are the families of the missing in America, and they're desperately searching for answers.

Somebody knows something.

I'm Josh Banquets. Join me for Season 3 of Missing in America. Listen carefully, because just one small detail might allow you to solve a mystery.

We have seen miracles happen.

Dateline, Missing in America, all episodes available now, wherever you get your podcasts. Never miss a moment of the 2024 Olympic Games from Paris. For in-depth coverage of the athletes, events, and medal counts, download the NBC News app.

Is there no doubt in your mind that you will walk out of here a free man?

I'm scared to my death that they're going to send me to jail or prison. But here's the thing. I have truth on my side. I did nothing wrong. I did nothing.

As Remy Ramsaran faced life in prison for the murder of his wife, Jen, his parents hired attorney Gilberto Garcia to defend him.

I liked him very much. He was extremely respectful, was very open with me, and was very happy that I was there.

When he came to visit me on the 26th of December of 2013,, it was finally the light at the end of a tunnel.

In his opening statement, Garcia told the jury the police botched the case from the start.

The police did a very shoddy job here. And why? Because they concentrated on Mr. Ramsaran from day one as the suspect. Yes, Mrs.

Remy's lawyer challenged the state's timeline of what happened that morning, highlighting when Remy left the house to go on his run.

Mr. McBride said in his opening that he left at 1130.. If he left at 1130, I have the easiest case in the world, because it is impossible, time-wise, to have done that trip in an hour and 12 minutes. Drop a body, get out and place a phone, come back, and then walk to the YMCA. Just can't do it.

As for the security cameras that had not captured Remy that day, Garcia said the tapes were worthless. One video was missing a timestamp. Another had a partially obstructed view.

And I argued to the jury, you can't see this person walking because there's still another 75 feet further that the camera doesn't see.

But the defense was centered on Remy himself. Remy spent two full days on the stand. Video cameras were not allowed to record witness testimony, including his. Do you have a strategy?

What strategy? Tell the truth. There is no strategy.

Remy told the jury his wife had changed in the months before she disappeared and that the two had discussed divorcing, but he was adamant that he had not killed her. Aileen felt uncomfortable sitting in the gallery as Remy testified, so she listened from just outside of the courtroom.

I knew he was lying. You know, I could tell. Some of the things he was saying, I needed to hear. I needed to hear how he was talking, how it was sounding coming out of his mouth.

The D.

I was frustrated. I would ask him what day it was, and he would tell me how much he loved his wife. He was failing to follow the rules, and I was doing everything in my control to try and make him to comply and do what he was supposed to do. And when I was doing that, I did raise my voice.

Garcia says letting Remy be Remy was part of the plan.

I let the prosecution yell at him because I wanted the jury to see his human reactions so that they could judge him on that aspect and say perhaps he said this wrong, but he's honest.

Reporter Pat Newell was in the courtroom.

I just don't think he could help himself. That's just how he is. Honestly, I'm really surprised he testified. I can't understand why he did. It only hurt himself.

Remy was the defense's only witness. In his closing arguments, Garcia addressed Remy's tendency to talk too much.

Mr. Ramsharm testified. Oh, my goodness, if I would have had a pan, I would have hit him in the head with it. I was so frustrated.

And he also acknowledged that he himself had wondered about Remy's guilt or innocence.

Is it possible that he could have done it? I've asked myself that question a million times. Is it possible Remy could have done it? That's not enough. Suspicion is not enough.

How do you want people to see you? Who are you?

I am who I am. I'm never concerned. Who is that? I tell the kids, specifically, the kids, don't worry about what people think you are or who you think they are. The only people that you should be concerned about are the people that love you, the family, your true closest friends, everyone else.

It is a circumstantial case.

Totally circumstantial.

Do you worry about motive and how the jury will feel about motive, the affair?

People have affairs all the time and they wind up killing their wives. It is what it is. I don't know what it is. I didn't do anything. Here's the thing.

You were living, though, with a secret.

Okay.

That isn't always fantastic.

No, no. Here's the thing, though. It might be a secret, but in regards to Jen and I splitting apart and whatever happened, it was always there. I mean, it's not like a bad thing.

You had a plan. Absolutely. Did you have a plan to kill your wife?

Of course not.

Is this all about Remy? Remy wanted to have the life he wanted?

Whoa, that's where you're absolutely wrong. I had the perfect life.

I had a wife.

I had a girlfriend. I had kids. I had everything anyone would want. The worst thing to have ever happened to me is Jen go missing. Absolutely worst thing.

It was one of the oddest defenses we've heard from a murder suspect. His affair made him too happy to kill, and yet his lawyers seem to agree.

What could trigger a man to kill his wife the morning after he's back with his girlfriend? Apparently, they had sexual relations, so that should have been hormonally good for him. You heard a lot of stuff about sexual activity.

Remy's fate was now in the jurors' hands. How would they judge the man who says he doesn't care what anyone thinks?

I was worried.