"Selena Gomez"

Hey, Will! Hello there. Hey, Sean. Will, you've got some real sweaty pits today. Are you concerned?

about anything? I am nervous. I just took a lie detector. Oh, wow. And what was the?

result?

out some truth. Yep, it's an all-new Smartless.

hot mics. Send us pics of all your hot mics.

your hot mics. He's so tired, he's still got it. So tired, still got it. Sean, you had a hot bob once, didn't you? I had a hot toddy, hot bob, and a hot mic.

Yeah, you did on the, whatchamacallit, Stooges film. I had that shelf haircut in the 80s where you cut it short in the back. Did you really? Yeah. That sounds very Depeche Mode.

TDM, total Depeche Mode. I used to, I had like, like kind of long, and then it's short in the back.

Ew, you had it like covering one of your eyes? Yeah, just kind of like coming up, you know. Archie's kind of got that, right? Your eldest son there, listener. He's got a little bit of a,

what's that? Kind of looking through his hair. Now it's kind of long all around. What's that?

That's a. what's that haircut? What's that? Yeah, I can't hear you, because my hair is blocking my.

eyes, not my ears. Richard Ehrlich, the last thing he says to himself before he leaves,

what's that? Yeah, yeah. Our buddy, the most incredible real estate broker in the world. He is so good. If you're looking to buy a home in the Los Angeles area.

side of Los Angeles area. Tricky, Dicky, Ricky Ehrlich. Richard Ehrlich is your guy. Yeah. Amazing.

if you're listening. Richard's got a, Richard's got, I may have bored you with this before. He's got a, he's got a mirror face, like we all do, but he's got a, he's got a trigger sentence that, that launches that mirror face. You know, everyone's got a face that they use. Well, when you look in the mirror, when you want to look your best, like one last look to go out, you kind of probably tighten up the eyes and maybe turn your head a little bit.

a good, that's a good. red carpet, like sexy disdain. That's the new one, right? Yeah. He.

never looks hotter than when he says it's where? Which is so crazy because he's such a nice guy. He's a nice guy and he's nice looking, but he just is not good with directions. Sean, good morning. Good morning to you.

I sleep in it. He sleeps in it. And, Sean, what was the sleep schedule last night? Because you wake up in the night and then you go back to bed early in the morning. I go to bed at about.

midnight. I get up at about 3 a.m. I stay up until about six or seven. Then I fall back to sleep for a couple hours and I'm good to go. And then I need like a 10 minute nap.

morning. I love the way your impression of me just has the dumbest look.

You know what we've done here, Sean, though? We've boosted up young Willie. Willie started the pod a little bit down, a little bit out of sorts. And then it's just a little bit of love. And now the wings are flapping.

laugh. It was so hard. Wow. Oh, my gosh. Selena, hello.

I'm so happy you're here. This is a very nice thing you're doing for us and our listeners.

I don't know. This is more my thing. I'm so happy. It's pretty cool of you. If we didn't know,

it looks like you were lying in bed in sheets. We have an overhead shot. Oh, yes. Well,

that is my beautiful background that I made for you guys, because I figured that would be better.

than... You're keeping it real. Listener, she's got just a sheet draped over, just a bunch of dead bodies behind you. Yeah, perhaps. Is that what it is?

I'm about 7, 730.. Are there animals to feed? Yes, I have two dogs. You do? What kind?

because your body gets you up at 7 or you just like... No, my body does. I think,

I don't know. For some reason, maybe the show or something, it's just embedded in me that I'm automatically up, and then I feel like a piece of shit if I wake up at like 10, even though those.

are nice. What is that about the body? that'll just wake you up at the same time every single day?

Circadian rhythm. Circadian rhythm. Marveling at the body. Look at this guy.

And then if you just point... And then if you point your eyes at something,

it tells your brain what you're seeing.

movie. Just the wonderment of discovery. Because if you put one foot in front of another, you'll just end up moving forward. That's incredible. All right, so, Celia, with these two dogs, they're multi-poos?

They're brother and sister? No, I got them at two different times, but they definitely don't act like brother and sister. No. Rescues, purebreds, we can cut that if you want. No, no, no.

Clear out for a joke. Go ahead, Will. No, no, no, no.

No, it actually was really sketchy, though. They drove in from Vegas and rolled the window halfway down and passed me, the dog and wanted the cash. I was like, all right.

I did have a bad experience once because this guy posted on Craigslist and he said, who wants, for a hundred bucks, you want to come out and check out these puppies? And let me say,

when I got to his house, it was not what I expected. It was not dogs. Come check out these puppies for a hundred bucks. Thank you, Will. Thank you.

We are super slappy. Super slappy.

Selina, isn't it better to get this over with than in the afternoon?

No, I actually don't mind this. This is a great way to start my day. You guys are making me laugh.

Well, keep your knees bent. It's not over yet. We'll let you revisit that at the end. See if you still love it. All right.

Yeah. She actually never pressured me or said, that's what I should do. She just did a lot of theater growing up. So she never really did anything television wise. And I was seven when I got my first job, because I was the only child, super dramatic.

Okay, that's crazy. You were in, Barney?

With Barney. Yes. That's pretty rad.

The guy who played Barney, he was pretty hot.

Was he? Was he?

Yeah, he was hot. He had to be fit and cute because he's one of them. that's like, well, he doesn't have to be cute, but he was. No way, hot, Barney.

Hot Barney. This is changing everything.

It's a new doc. So he was a plushie. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh.

I'm sorry, Sheldon. Just quick for Tracy, really quick.

Just break it down. Does Tracy need to know this?

Does she want to know what a plushie is? A plushie is like a fetish where people dress up in like costumes and stuff, right? I heard you guess.

What do you mean, right? You don't need to say right question mark to us.

Yeah. Like. we're going to verify.

Right or something or something. That is correct, Sean.

All right. So we're with Barney and we're having fun on that. And then from there.

How did Barney happen? I really want to know.

It was. Yeah, it was like a little like thing. But I was in line with fourteen hundred people on a hot Texas day. And my mom was like, are you sure you want to do this? I was like,

yeah. I'm like, I'm fine. Because because you knew what TV was and you thought it'd be cool to me.

Yeah, I was. I mean, my mom wasn't very intense about what I could watch. So I would stay up and watch Friends with her and Will and Grace. And that was like what I grew up with. For the longest time, by the way, on my bio on Instagram says I love Will and Grace.

And I was like, that's very sweet. Did you ever see the episode where where Will was in a dance off with Sean Jackson, with Janet Jackson?

You did. I was a backup. I played a backup dancer.

Oh, that's right. And then Karen got mad because she fell for you. And yes, I remember.

Yes. Oh, my God, you really are a fan. Wait.

Will, I remember you snapping those moves. I think I was there that night, right? You were there that night. You really know how to finish a move.

But we're so tired. And Jimmy's like, OK, let's do it again. I looked at Sean and I'm like, I'm not going to do it again.

No, I do know. I actually do know. And I remember, like my friend sent me the link, because she knew that I was obsessed and I had no idea.

No way. Sean, did you know that Selina Gomez was such a huge Will and Grace fan?

I did because I'm really good friends with Marty Short. Oh, yeah. And then we chatted on the phone. Me and Selina chatted on the phone, like a year ago or something. And you were like, oh, my God.

I know, I freaked out. And then I was like, oh, my God.

And she was like, shut up.

Likewise, Selina, I'm a huge fan of yours.

That's kind of a bit of a meet cute.

No, I'm very, I'm very excited. I grew up with you, so.

Me too. And I grew up with you.

Now.

53.. 53 years.

All right. So we do. We're galloping along with acting. We've got the Barney under our belts. We're moving to Waverly Place.

Yes, my Disney show.

Yes. And a few other jobs here and there. And things are really moving and cooking. And then there's a cooking show. later.

Well, I think that Disney is safe to say they're a machine. And they kind of, in a way, not forcefully required that I know how to sing. So I could sing like the theme song. Like they know how to package someone and like make it like a whole triple threat thing.

This was happening during Waverly?

Yeah. So they asked me to do the theme song and I had fun with that. And then they were like, would you like to do an album? And I thought it would be fun. And I thought, more than anything, it would be like a hobby that I really enjoyed.

And how old are you at this point?

I wanted to be a serious actress. I was 15.. And I wanted to be an actress. I'd never really intended on being a singer full time. But apparently that hobby turned into.

Yeah, you're doing all right. Now, did you have any idea that you could sing before you tried it?

Yeah. Well, I was on Barney and I do. I love you.

You know, that's not very challenging.

And, you know, it warmed up my vocals.

Okay. All right. There you go. And then, and then, because of that, did you take like singing lessons and developed your instrument, as they say?

You know, I did. I don't think I'm the best singer, but I think I. I know how to tell stories and I love being able to make songs that, you know, I get more like. I always get people coming up to me saying, I had no idea it was you that was singing that song. And that kind of makes it feel nice.

I mean, Wizards of Waverly Place, was a gigantic hit show.

Yeah, I miss it.

I want to say my sister wrote on that for a second. Really? She was a writer on that. Maybe I might not be right.

But it was. it was a blast, like I will say. Yes. That's why I love sitcoms.

Would you say you have a good memory, Jason?

No, not really. Okay. Wayne, we're going to get right back to you. But, Selena, I want to. The.

So, guys, the bits. I love the bits.

I love it.

We'll be right back.

Hey, it's Guy Raz here, the host of How I Built This, a podcast that gives you a front row seat to how some of the biggest products were built and the innovators, entrepreneurs and idealists behind them. Every week I speak to someone new. Stories like Justin Wolverton's lawyer, who just wanted a healthy alternative to ice cream. So he created Halo Top in his Cuisinart, or Todd Graves, who grew his fried chicken restaurant, Raising Canes, into one of the most successful fast food chains in the US. All of these great conversations can help you learn how to think big, take risks and navigate crises in life, and work from people who've done all of that and more.

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As writers, we'd written our share of murder mysteries. So when suspicion turned to Dan's Nancy, we weren't that surprised. The first person they look at would be the spouse.

We understand. that's usually the way they do it.

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And now back to the show.

All right, so then you know that you can kind of sing a little bit and the music starts to take off. Like, I guess what I'm asking is at what point was the acting and the music at the same level? and you thought, do I have to pick or should I try to keep both these things going at the same speed?

I started having a lot of fun with music and then touring was really fun. Um, but I was doing my TV show at the same time. And it wizards and I just, uh, I found it really fun. So I just kept going. But the older I get, the more I'm kind of like, I would like to find something to just settle on.

Yeah, well, it's exhausting, right? I mean, that sounds like super, that's so hard. I just think about the energy.

It's such an oh, my God, I went to a mental institute and canceled one of my doors. Really?

Yeah, because it was so exhausting.

Yeah, it just got to me because I love working and it distracts me from bad things. And I like that. So I just like working.

I was just, yeah, I was just saying that this morning. By the way, it reminds me of my three-year-old, Denny. He calls lizards, um, because he can't say L, he calls them wizards. So he's always like, we. just, there's a wizard in the backyard.

Because I want to talk to him.

But wait, but, Selena, you're saying that in a perfect world, you would pick either one or the other going forward?

Well, I do feel like I have one more album in me, but I would probably choose acting.

You would? Yes. God damn, you're so great at music, though. Yeah. Well, thanks.

Here's the good news, you don't have to pick.

Don't have to pick.

You're right, but I am going to want to chill because I'm tired.

But yeah, I mean, reading through, I can tell you, we've had some very accomplished people on this show. Thank you, listeners, for making it a place where accomplished people want to come. I have never read so much information about a guest than I have about you. I mean, the things you have done in your, I mean, you're just barely 30, aren't you?

31..

It's just so admirable what you've done.

It's mind blowing.

In philanthropy and in global sort of charities and being in, what, a UNICEF ambassador?

I was a UNICEF ambassador and now I have my own foundation.

Yeah, it's just stunning. And we haven't even gotten to Rare Beauty, this beauty company, the makeup company, what do you call it?

Rare Beauty.

Yeah, but I mean, what would you describe it as, a beauty company?

Yeah, I would say cosmetics. You know, it's been really fun, but we're actually starting to get into skin now. I know this is all girly stuff, but I'm excited.

What are you talking about? I'm wearing makeup right now.

I mean, I know, but we're going into skin now. It's about three years old and it's honestly been the biggest gift, because I launched it during COVID and it just took off and I couldn't be more thankful.

Did you launch it during COVID because you had time to finally, because you weren't on tour and you weren't shooting, you're like, now I have time to dedicate to this, and it kind of came up, or was it something you always?

It sucked. I was supposed to release it like a month right into COVID. So I had done all the promotion and everything. It's about to come out and then we figured, all right, we'll just try online. And I think makeup became really big during COVID because people would do the videos and they would create looks, and it kind of just took off.

For everybody, yeah.

I'm really proud.

When you started Barney at seven and then Wizards, do you think that your work ethic and your drive and your ambition was instilled in you or would have happened anyway?

Oh, I don't know. I probably would have been a hot mess if I wasn't doing this. I already am. But I don't know. I don't know.

I mean, we are all hot. Obviously, tell us how.

Oh, I've been to like four treatment centers.

Just because of depression and anxiety, right?

And I'm bipolar as well. Cherry on top.

I would say you've got an incredible dynamic head on your shoulders. that takes a lot of management and analysis. And it sounds like you're doing a pretty freaking good job.

Thank you. I don't know. Disney was like boot camp. You know, they were definitely-.

You know who doesn't have problems? You know who doesn't have problems, Selena? Dummies. I mean, it's true. I mean, that's where you get that blissful ignorance.

Yeah, and I'm pretty, I don't know.

Yeah, I think you're doing great.

It's not getting in your way of your accomplishments. And you and I have talked a few times. You're incredibly nice. So your personal success is fantastic as well, as opposed to your business success. So, whatever you're doing, keep going.

Are you super tight? So your mom, as you said, your mom is or was an actress. And that sort of paved the way for you to get into it and take it seriously. And you mentioned you're an only child. I imagine you're still pretty close with your folks.

Yeah, I think when I was younger, my mom, I mean, my mom was my mom. I was under 18.. So I was getting invited to these events and stuff. And my mom, from a very early age, was like, you're going to walk the carpet. Maybe we'll stay for five minutes.

Right. And the hours of people don't understand that. the hours and hours and hours of work that it takes to do a TV show, a tour, whatever it is, or a movie. It's just like for a kid.

It's hard enough to be a kid. I just think about my own kids and being, you know, young teenagers, my older boys. And I'm just thinking.

And then the younger ones with the speech problems.

I was looking for wizards. It's like the idea of them. Like, Sean, we were over there watching the movie the other night with Archie. Can you imagine Archie? He's 15..

He wouldn't be happy. He was what Selena's saying.

It's tough, right?

No, it is. And the transition honestly happened around 25, where I didn't feel like I had to impress my parents, more so. But my mom was also really cool because right after Disney, she put me in a movie called Spring Breakers. Like, she found that movie. And it's, you know, very racy.

Yeah. And it wasn't. I mean, I'm sure your mom was not strategic with grabbing that, nor were you. But I'm sure that there was some thought put into it where this would sort of broaden the public's idea about that which you can do and that which is fitting of when they think about you. She can do this.

My mom was a huge Harmony Curran fan. And she heard there was a script out. And so she was interested in it. And the character I play isn't as racy. So I was like 19 when I did it.

How did your mom have the sense to know good material from bad material?

Or she's really great at that stuff. You know, we, we, uh, she found the book 13 reasons why, which we turned into a TV show. So she randomly was at a bookstore and she was in young adult and found mad and we developed it. She, she just has really nice taste, you know, instincts. clearly.

That's great. Awesome. Yeah. I love that you guys are so close.

Yes.

Um, well, you know, uh, we can cut this part too, but I, I am fascinated and, and thankful for how outspoken you are about mental health, because I have somebody very, very close to me who I've had to deal with, with it and not deal with it, but just like help with it. And I was happy to help with it. And, um, but do you ever,

Will you say thank you to him? You've never publicly thanked him.

No, I was going to say the same thing. All jokes aside, Jason, you dick. Um, I was going to say, oh no, JK. Uh, I was going to say, uh, uh, I like the way, I like the way that you're so open and frank about that, about mental health. And I think that it's something that people luckily talk about more and more, but I think it's really refreshing to hear you talk about it in a way that's very, just sort of matter of fact.

It is. It's great because my mom, you know, died of Alzheimer's a long time ago. I forget when and because I, uh, because it was so painful, because it was so painful. I just, me and my sister and my family, we would, there's a point where you have to start making it funny because you've cried too much about it. So then you cut it with humor.

No, we cannot prove that that's mine.

And we would laugh because you, because it was past the point. So my question is, have you, uh, me, dealing with somebody with, have I taken a shit? and?

forgotten?

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Have you ever, no, have you ever like? I've ever just kind of infused humor into the whole situation?

Definitely. Um, I also have a few friends that are, you know, in comedy and writers, and it, it's, it's just fun, you know, and now me and my family are in a place where we can do that. And, um, and I don't mind saying the things that I'm walking through, and they can be fun and they can be messy, but I've always, you take the power back. Yeah. I just, uh, knowing more, I feel better.

It gives so many people, uh, myself included, uh, you know, a little bit more comfort in the reality that I'm not, you know, uh, I'm, I'm kind of broken upstairs. We all are there. There are as many mental variables in all of us as there are physical ones. You can see the physical ones. Someone's taller, someone's shorter, someone's thicker, someone's thinner, someone's got bigger feet, smaller feet.

And Jason, Jason, on top of that community, the idea that you talking about it, it sheds a light and says, you're not alone. There's somebody else and somebody else can relate to that and identify with it. Certainly I know from my own life and I can go back and somebody else says, I have this, and they go, oh, and they talk about their experience and I go, oh, you have this too. And then we can talk about it in a way that, and, and that kind of really breaks it wide open.

Definitely. It connects you as well. I mean, that's why I released my documentary. It's all based on mental health.

Thank you so much.

I haven't seen it. I'm so, forgive me. I'm going to watch it.

Don't worry.

We're going to watch it. Nope.

But it, but it ends. well. I just, I think that's why I did the documentary. I was terrified before it came out and I had already signed the contract and I was like, damn, I can't go back. But that was a really big moment for me.

Yeah. I love that.

Sometimes with all my health stuff, like I've had a kidney transplant. I have high blood pressure.

I love talking about all that.

You can think about like a situation and say, why me? Why me? And instead it's given me the gift to say, oh, I know why it's me. I'm there for those people that are going through what I went through. And I can say, I hear you and I see you, not just be in and say, my life's perfect, but I'm sorry.

I'm a big believer that the person upstairs or whomever's upstairs for anybody doesn't give you anything more than what you can handle. Yes. And so the fact that you've been given all of these gifts, challenges, um, uh, and that you're able to go through them so successfully in a public space, such that you can give encouragement and support and, and, uh, to, to others, is like, I mean, talk about using your years. Right. You know, we've talked about it in the show before, about, you know, when you, when you get to the end, you're gonna, we're all gonna look back and hope that we used our time correctly.

It's like 20 lives.

Mentally. Um, certainly.

I guess, I guess the question really is slated. Now what?

Yeah. You know, you're fixing your brain.

I don't know. I think I just, I, I gravitate towards things I connect to and, um, and I'm all about authenticity. I can't really force myself to be anything other than who I am. And it's just, you know, luckily worked.

It's, I'll bet, your ability to, uh, recognize and attract those who are equally authentic, uh, is really keen to, you know, like I'm just thinking when you're talking about the documentary, thinking about Alec, Alec and, and, uh, and his, his sister, uh, Aline, we both work with, I mean, people like that, like you, probably have a great team around you, uh, great friends around you. Like all of us, as we get older, you have less and less friends, but that's usually by choice. Um, talk, talk to us about, um, your ability to kind of pick up on, on, on people's uniqueness and authenticity or lack thereof. Is that something you always had, or is it just gotten sharper?

Maybe it has gotten sharper, but ever since I was younger, I had, I like to think I had good discernment with people and I could just sense when I felt that it was being forced or that there was something they were wanting or whatever. I just could feel that in a lot of people. And I mean, obviously I, I put some of those people in my life when I was younger and then I, you know, later realized, but most of my friends, like I said, they're, I mean, they can go from being a writer to one of my friend is a real, one of my friends is a realtor.

So, like, I, I kind of Richard Ehrlich, kind of just, it's not Richard Ehrlich. No. Um, yeah, well, it's, it's, it's, it's like P, it's having people skills. Right. And I wonder if, if you're like me, that's part of what has always attracted me to being an actor is cause.

Also, it's, it's just staying curious, right? The moment you stop being curious, then you, like Jason, just said, you become one of those dummies.

Yeah, no, I love life and I love people, and I, I find it really fun.

Do you find that, um, which do you find is more cathartic for you? More sort of a, a, a, a lane to, uh, explore and enjoy parts of you. Is it with playing different characters, or, or, or being a songwriter?

I think it's a little bit of both. Um, I, I wrote this ballad called lose you to love me. And that was probably the most personal song I'd ever released about something that was on everyone's mind for some reason. And then, in acting, I feel like I, I have these moments in my life that have happened and I'm able to use that. And it actually feels great.

Um, is there something that you, I mean, this is going to be one of the dumbest questions you've ever gotten. Is there something with every single thing that you've done where you're, just like, you know what I've never done? I want to, I need to do that before.

I don't think I've even began, like in a lot of areas. Like I, I not necessarily cosmetics and stuff, but, like I've said many times with you guys, I think, acting, like, I don't think I've been able to even touch the surface of what I know that I'm capable of doing. And, um, I'm very selective, or else I'd be in all of the movies that I get offered and I just fight for my roles and I'm always auditioning. So I like to earn it.

Yeah, that's great.

We'll be right back.

And now back to the show.

Something I've, I've sort of really gotten more and more passionate about is, uh, is, is not playing characters as much as just playing somebody? that doesn't force me to, to do a lot of acting and play a character. I kind of like to be the audience. And a lot of that comes from my desire to try to be as, as not full of shit as possible in my life and not be fake and phony and pretending to be other people. So I really like trying to be as authentic as I can.

Kind of, but I, I just finished this movie, uh, this Jacquard Yard film, and it's all in Spanish, and it's a musical, and it was one of the most challenging things that I'd done. But it's, it's really, uh, Emilia Perez. Um, I think that will come out next year.

And it's so good if you just said none of your business.

I'm excited for that because there's, for example, there's the scene where I'm being left, I'm not giving anything away. And I remember I channeled the moment when I had to go to, um, rehab for the first time and leaving. And I, I remember, I, I told my co-star, that's what I was feeling in the moment. And I just felt like it was getting that out when I remembered that first moment and being terrified. And, um, so it felt really cathartic.

Speaking of that, have you ever wanted to go to, you know what I'm going to ask, go to the Broadway or do live theater? And maybe you have.

I haven't. Um, I think I would like to, I'm not sure I'm there yet, because I think I'd still be a little nervous.

Oh, really? Yeah. After, after touring and stuff, you've already been like a stage performer.

No, but it's, it's different. Cause I love when I'm doing my concert, cause it's like, oh, these are my peeps, you know, like you feel comfortable.

You feel safer. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Well, will you talk more about that, about, about battling? Cause, like I get very nervous when I have to speak publicly, like I can't even give a toast. Really?

Yeah. He goes white.

Yeah. But I have an enormous amount of confidence when it comes to other things that are going to be made for the public millions of camera from millions of people, as opposed to 10 people at a dinner table. So I don't understand that about myself, the difference between having a lot of confidence or zero confidence, um, that are sort of similar things.

Jay, because you're so well-spoken in life. Just, I mean, clearly in life, that's why it blows my mind that anytime we're at like a dinner parties, or like two, three years ago, we are at your birthday dinner party at Richard's house.

Yeah.

And I said, let's go around the room and say how grateful, how much we love Jason. And I'll start. And I got up and I gave this little speech and it got to Jay and you were like, I'm out. I don't want any part of this.

But I, yeah. So how do you manage that? Like, what is that switch that flicks for you when you can stand up in front of, you, know, a hundred thousand people and give a concert, or do a movie or a television show? that's going to be for millions of people. versus like maybe going out on a date for the first time, or, or, or doing an interview for a magazine or whatever, might give you anxiety.

I think when I was younger, uh, I had a very, very public life and it wasn't fair and a lot of ways that I got to the point, so much so that I was like, if I don't talk about what's going on, everyone's going to continue to narrate my life and people are just going to buy it. And I need people to hear from me. And I genuinely stopped caring. Like I don't, I don't care. Like.

Yeah. I have a friend of mine, um, Maria Shriver. She, you know, I've known her for years and years and decades. And she, I, whenever I would have dinner at her house, she, she's the one who forced me to get up and talk like that. And it's so, I was littered, you know, sorry, I was riddled with fear about it.

You were just littered. Is that what it was? Like, I'm having a tough time following what happened.

But, Jay, but now that you're saying it, I think like for me, it's like, I'm afraid of being, of being accused or judged as either being an, uh, being full of shit or being stuck up. I think I, I had a real complex about being conceited and stuck up when I was in, when I was in middle school, like sixth and seventh grade was really hard for me in school because people, Oh, here comes that guy on TV. He stuck up. So I, I, I wasn't really, I was, I was shy about being confident because people would think I was stuck up. So then I tried to seem not confident and then maybe that part of me kind of took hold.

You know, but what's crazy about that, though, is think about it. That's inauthentic.

Yeah, exactly.

If you think about it, you, you, you fell, you fell victim to the very thing that you were trying to prevent. I mean that honestly. And when you're thinking about it that much, you put it, you put a space between you and people. you're trying to connect with. Jay.

And it makes me so nervous because I'm having to manage two things at the very same time.

Right. Because you're, because you're taking care of their feelings before yours.

Yeah. You're never going to be able to, you, can't, I remember somebody saying what you can't, you can't tell everybody how to treat you or how to look at you. There's nothing you can do about the way people think about you.

All you can do is take care of it. None of your business.

Well, yeah, there's, there's that. And also, like, you'll never, you'll never get.

Selena, one second.

Yeah, no, it's okay. I'm enjoying this. I like the conversation.

But really, just, really quick. It's, it's the same thing that I've carried around for so long. Being gay is like, I've constantly. my entire life. I just came out.

But why did you do that? for being gay? with regards to you, being gay? Is that what you mean?

Yeah. Yeah. With like, if I enter a room, even today, I still have a little bit left over, but for the most part, I don't care. It's like, I have to check. Like I, I'm so used to, it's in my blood now to check how people think about me entering a room.

I used to do this when I was younger. I remember I was doing an interview and I sat down and there was probably 14 people behind the camera and I was, I think I was maybe 21 and I started to sweat and I like ran away and I started crying, because this is what I was thinking. I was like, these people probably think I sound stupid. They're going to go home and tell their partners or friends about how much of an idiot I am. And I feel like a horrible, like interviewer.

Yes. Panic attack. Yeah. I've had that. And I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I was stuck there and it just becomes exponentially more horrific and terrifying because you now you're convinced.

And so you have that too, huh?

I mean, I, I still fall back into it, but I've, you know, here and there, but for the most part, I'm like, I really mean this.

I'm sure there'll be a lot of listeners like shut the fuck up. Well, you know, I really, this is new to me. I don't understand it in that way. I just, everybody's wired differently.

It's a form of paranoia.

Like when I got this, you know, when I got this, and I was so obviously.

He's holding up just some sort of, um, just plain white faceless body.

And I thought, okay, thank you to everybody.

Um, but I, I feel like the older I get, the closer I get to our favorite term, uh, sexy indifference, uh, or, or rather better, better said, a healthy indifference, where you do care what people think, but you're not, you're not obsessed by it and you're not, you're not pulled around.

I will challenge you on that, because we're doing it right now. today. That is also put on. It's not real. Cause if you have to think about the sexy indifference, then it's not organic.

Right. If it's no, no, I'm saying I'm trying, I'm trying to get to that place of, of, of honest and healthy indifference where it's just right sized, you know, where you do care about people, you know, like you don't want to be rude. You want to be sensitive.

You just don't want to see the freedom.

The freedom is when you don't even have to recognize that you do have indifference, that you're just living. That's the freedom you're. otherwise you're shackled by the idea of it. still lives there as an idea, but it's also what we do for a living, right.

It's part of our job to be aware of what people think and kind of manipulate that. And like, that's, we're professional liars, you know? And it's, so it's, it was a little bit of a head screw for me. Obviously still is when I was a kid, when you're trying to figure out who you're, who you are and who you're becoming, you're training yourself how to fake, to be somebody else. It was, it's kind of a little bit of a blender.

It's very weird. Do you still think about that, Selina?

Absolutely. I remember I was talking about, I was talking about this with someone and there was a study that said, um, the moment you get famous at a certain age, you end up stuck in that area for a while because it stunts your, yes. Cause it stunts every, you're, you're dealing with things that no child should be dealing with and criticizing my body or something weird. Like it. just, it felt, uh, just, it doesn't feel good.

You can't grow privately, like, like most people, do, you know?

Yeah. So, I mean, I don't regret my life, but there's a huge part of me that's like, yeah, I wonder what that would have been like to just be me for a second.

So, but this, uh, I'm, I'm assuming that, uh, you know, you've got millions, literally millions of people that, that admire you more than any of us could probably imagine. Um, and because of how brave you are with how honest you are, um, and that is not going to go away. Thank God. I mean, you're, you're, you're, you're a role model, whether you like it or not. Um,

Until I run away from everything.

No, no. You're not going to go. wherever you go. You're going to be there.

No, don't take away her out until you run away. If you want.

I've run away.

Yeah, but, um, but I now get, I now get it, though. Jay, I want to say, cause you just mentioned that. I want to say that I now get it. when I sort of earlier, flippantly, when we first started talking about how many millions of followers you have. I now understand.

No, no, it's, it's intense. It's weird. It's such a bizarre thing. And they give you way too much information. Like they'll, they'll tell you how many accounts you had reached and they'll tell you the percentages of women versus male or, or non-binary, whatever it is.

And they are definitely attracted to all the things that are very special about you and not to take away from any of that. But I think it is also very indicative of how common it is for people around the world to be not perfect, you know? And I think they really are, um, are comforted by how you are so honest about how not perfect you are. And I think that's just a real gift that you give to people and myself included. I thank you for that.

Not an hour right now, but it is pretty crazy.

Yeah, it is.

I'm like, guys, let's go have brunch.

I want to let you go, but I know we have probably a couple of more questions. Sean, go.

Yes. No, I just want to know. Only Murders. I love the show. I love you in it.

Did you just love murderers? Was that how you got into it?

To be honest, yes. And I like very dark documentaries sometimes. So I tend to like lean into those, especially scary stuff, like mentally.

And John Hoffman is one of my very, very close friends of mine.

But no, it actually happened. because, well, Steve's original idea was that it was going to be three men. And then John Hoffman suggested that they hired. Yes, who created the show. He said, I think it would be really cool if we added, like a younger character, maybe a female.

It's a good hang.

Yeah. And then the success after was just such a like surprise. And we just were happy to do it.

And only murders in the building, never manslaughter.

Never manslaughter, just murders. Yeah.

OK, I'm fine. I'm allowed to ask.

Yes, you are.

And that is in its fourth year, or fifth year coming up on the show.

We just got renewed for season four.

Season four. And we may have to cut this, but John, I asked John, I was like, how many more seasons? And he goes, well, I asked Steve and Steve said forever.

I know he does. My favorite thing about Steve and he knows that I've said this before, but my favorite thing is Steve will be like, I've got to get, I got to get home. I got to get home. I got to go. I'm too old for this.

And I'm, like, you, got to get home.

Exactly. But you need to be home. So sometimes I'll be like, I'll carry the load, because it is the greatest trio.

But, as it has been said before, one of the oddest trios.

Yeah.

Awesome. Yeah. Great.

Thank you. Well, Selena, this has been great. Thank you, honey.

Yeah, of course. I just wanted to tell you, Jason, really quick. I am going to send your wife, Amanda, and your girls some of my new collection from Rare Beauty and like a whole little box, because I would love to see, you know, what they thought.

or I love their enormous fans of yours, as is Amanda, my wife.

So I can. I want to send you that, because this is going to be, this is going to be one of the biggest collections that I've released and I'm beyond stoked for it. I know it's little things like that that make me happy, because.

Yeah, but it's not a little thing. It's really impressive. what you've done with this. It's this company is potentially, if it's not, already, bigger than anything you've done in music or in film or television or in social media. I mean, it's an enormous company and you really should be proud of that.

Good products. And we also just try not to be everything else, you know, like. I'm not huge on promoting like crazy, you know, makeup. I love makeup, but I I want my line to represent yourself and to have fun with it.

And it seems very consistent with you and what you represent.

And yeah, well, might I say, your skin is flawless.

Oh, my goodness. Well, thank you.

She takes off her glasses. She goes cross eyed.

She did a Richard Ehrlich.

What did I say? It's where he's a little bit confused. And then that look at that beautiful letter saying it's where say it ready and action where I swear.

Oh, my God. That's good. That's really good.

You look just like Richard Ehrlich.

Great.

Selena, you're the greatest. Thank you so much for doing this. This was this was a big, big get for us.

It's so awesome.

I am so happy. And hopefully I'll get to meet you all in person. I'm sure I'll run into you, Jason. I'm just. I'm a big fan of all of you.

Yeah, thank you.

All right. Have a great, great rest of the day. And thanks for talking with us. Yeah. All right.

Bye. All right.

Bye, Selena. Thank you.

Have success. Isn't that your theory? Have success.

Well, but then after that, try to be not before somebody is not before.

Because then they're going to be accused.

You're kind and as gentle, as loving as you know.

OK, what is that? Will's holding up a fake award.

This is my dressing room. I don't know. Like it looks like an award.

It doesn't look like an Oscar.

Yeah, she's really true.

Yeah, no, she's.

What did you both? Did you learn anything? You guys?

I did. I feel like I'm lazy.

Yeah, I think.

Well, a lazy, because she she's just so. it seems like everything she does. She's successful at even even mental health.

Right.

She's successful. I know, right, right.

Because she's not running from it. She's going right through it.

Yeah, it's. it's pretty remarkable. And she's so. she's such a talk about. we were talking, you know, authenticity was was the central theme today's.

Yeah, she's like superhero.

Really doesn't. like she says she doesn't. She just does what she loves to do. Everybody's welcome to come or don't come.

Like, you know, it's funny. I was going to say she said that she didn't care. But it's almost like she. it's not that she doesn't care. It feels like she.

And what she loves, she turned that care internal. She's taking care of number one, which for me, always lets me be a better person to the people around me. Sometimes I over index in the selfishness, but I'm trying to get the right balance.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I'm sorry. No.

Still rolling. Let's get one more of those. Well, a little more convincing.

Oh, no, Jason. I was. I held up on so many because it was such such, so many things I wanted to throw in. And I did it because it was just out of respect.

Oh, you've got some unused jokes. You'd like to workshop real quick.

I mean, no, no, no, no, no. There's one at the end. Certainly that I wanted to.

Yeah.

Let's hear it. Don't worry. I'll carry the load, Steve. And I was like, Sean, how many times? Okay.

So do you want to know?

Right. It's deep.

Do you want to know, though? I speaking about Archie, your son, you know, one time outside. No, no. This is outside. Once I had a wizard crawl up my pants.

Truly, truly lizard wizard.

And how hard did it get up before it pulled a quick 180 and said, no, thank you.

Now, that's such a funny thing. Wizard. You could use it for so many things. We are. Oh, you know what?

Okay.

So part of my part of my what's he called? The gay tray that Jason calls it.

Oh, yeah. No, no, no. What?

It wasn't the gay tray. It's an Invisalign thing. Yeah.

I didn't know you had it in today.

Yeah. So, uh, I have it in every day and then, but I can whiten my teeth. But my dentist on three days ago said, you care, some teeth, whitening stuff. You can put in the Invisalign trays. And, but you, you don't have to put them in the back where the.

Bye.

Bye.

Cuspids are.

Bye.

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