parents aren't perfect, a talk with dr. aliza pressman [video]

That's sort of a goal of mine is to have children and try to make them good people so that they can spread love through the world. You know, for the next generation. Like, that's inspiring to me. Ah, snooze fest, yeah, whatever. So, you know, as I'm vaguely approaching this time of my life, I'm thinking about parenting.

I'm thinking about what being a good parent is, I'm thinking about how I should be preparing myself to be a parent one day. How can I start now? And that's why I'm so excited to be talking to Dr. Aliza Pressman today.

She is a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and the health care providers who care for them. Aliza is also the host of the hit podcast Raising Good Humans. She has two teenagers, so she's in the thick of it when it comes to parenting anyway. And her first book is coming out January 2024, and it's called The Five Principles of Parenting Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans. Parenting is a topic that you could truly talk about it forever, but we're gonna scratch the surface today and start thinking about parenting.

So I introduce to you, Dr. Pressman. Do you think parenting comes intuitively? is it just like a human thing to parent? Or do you think that? It's something that, in order to be good at, you kind of need to research a little bit?

You kind of need to ask, you know, the older and wiser in your life, I'm curious how much of it is instinctual.

I mean, you don't waste time, I don't waste time. Okay, we're jumping right in. I have thought about this quite a bit and I land in two different places.

One is, of course, some of this is just instinct, and it's like our natural way of developing and taking care of our young. And like, even if you didn't birth an infant, if you're the person in charge of that infant. Like, things kick in, but part of the problem is that some of the things that kick in are instinct. They just might be leading you down a path that you don't mean to be going on. Because you go to the place that your childhood experience brings you to, and so, for some people, instinct is awesome.

And for other people, instinct, it's like people that you're attracted to, like, does your gut lead you to someone? That says this is safe? But actually safety for you is a memory of an unsafe home, right? So is there instinct? Yes.

And also, like, one of the biggest predictors of a positive attachment relationship with your child is to have come to terms with your own experience in that relationship in your early years. So you have to be reflective. Yeah, you know. And so I do think that it's nice to find people that you feel like safe, trusting that they have. You know, like, you just look at them and you just think, you know, and it could be your mother.

It could be just somebody that you're like. I really like the relationship that you've developed with your child. Tell me a little bit about that. So that didn't really answer your question, but it's a little bit of both.

Right, like, what, it's so not, yeah.

Yeah, and I think that that's a red flag, like anytime where you're going to be a robotic parent, because you have so many. You know, like, here are all the rigid scripts and all the ways that you should be. Because of course, it's different, it's different between kids, right? Like you have one kid with one temperament, it's going to be different.

But I do think there's an overall parenting approach where we have research that suggests. There's like one that's a little bit better, and it's how you interpret it that will be different. So there are three styles that people look at in the research, there's four, one is neglect.

That is obviously, yeah, we're not, we wouldn't be here. But the three styles are authoritative, authoritarian and permissive, and it's not like we all fit into exact categories. So the way it's looked at is you look at both sensitivity, like the connection, the relationship, the paying attention to the individual child and the other side of it, which is what's called demandingness. But really, you could think of it as, like, boundaries limits, control.

And authoritative parents are kind of balanced on both fronts, they're both sensitive, but they also have really appropriate boundaries, clear limits, like, you know what to expect. And that gives a sense of safety emotionally and a sense of safety physically, and it gives you the freedom to be who you are.

Then there's the other side of each extreme the permissive is super sensitive, loving, delicious, amazing. So hard to give boundaries and limits because those parents typically feel like so uncomfortable with their children's discomfort from having a limit. That they like, bend in whatever direction they need to to make them happy, and in doing so, this is typical. It's not always, but typically those kids end up more anxious and more unhappy because they can't, you can't always. Well, they don't have a rock.

Yeah, like you, you don't feel centered in the same way, but you have a connection and that's wonderful on the other side of it. Look at kids whose parents don't give the sensitivity. They're like, it's my way or the highway, because I said, so, that's authoritarian.

And those kids tend to just lie to their parents more because the rules are so rigid that they become like great liars. So if you know anybody who had really strict, like my ex husband's parents were so strict and they thought he was so perfect. He was crawling out the fire escape, going to out, setting the alarm, like doing everything that you know you could do, and they still have no idea. But on the other side of it, you know, so the relationship isn't strong.

Yep, so you kind of have to decide as a parent, like, Well, what do, what am I looking for? and then also what outcomes do I want for my child? And like you said, it's going to be different, like I. What I think of as a as. What I'm hoping for for my kids is going to be presumably different than what you're hoping for.

Although I'm sure there's like a baseline of similarity, totally, so I would say that's the the. The thing that always you could lean on is all feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not like you could feel and be exactly who you are. I'm still going to give you boundaries and limits, and that's going to keep you safe.

And the rest is like, do what you want. Yep, how do you?

Or can we just sort of, like, hope it, hope it kind of goes on its own, yeah?

I'm just going to react exactly like, Yeah, you know, my mother did to me and her mother did to her. But I'm actually going to take a moment and think, why am I responding this way? And I mean, I still default. My default setting is very similar to my parents, and I love my parents and they're amazing, but you don't want to be like them necessarily. I don't know, yeah, I mean, I love them.

Yeah, um, but I don't think anyone goes into psychology, particularly this tiny minutia field that I'm in, which is developmental psychology, which is sort of how you come to be who you are, and growth over time and emotional development. Like, you're not interested in that because you were around all of the normal like things that we think are easy. Breezy Yeah, it's. It's cause I was kind of watching just what wildly interesting.

You know, do you think that it's ideal and responsible, when possible, to kind of have that sorted out beforehand? It in a dream world?

Like, I'm this is nobody's, I'm not being rebellious, like, I'm just an adult now. Yes, that's a weird feeling, and I think you still feel that way when you become a parent. And you're just like, Wait, no, there's nobody like, no one's checking my work. Yeah, yeah, no, seriously.

It's just weird, but you, you start to just you. You embody it because you have no choice and a really incredible thing happens to your brain. So the first three years of life, biggest growth in our brains, the next spurt is adolescence, and the third one is transition to parenthood. And you can be adoptive parent, you can be dad, you could be mom. It's not biological, but the brain actually grows the most. The third. It's like the third peak before the decline, but it's so wild. And it's like the most flexible and motivated you will ever be in your adult life.

Wow, and I think that's so cool. No one I I've not heard.

He was like, when I, the day I became your dad, like my brain changed. He was right, like he fully, he was like I didn't. I could have never predicted it, I couldn't understand it.

And I think the same thing happened for my mom, but you know, my dad is really reflected on that. Especially. As, you know, he's always been sort of this creative, like free spirit like, also, you know, maybe more inward in a way, like, more focused on himself and his own creative endeavors. But something just switched when I was born, and it's interesting to hear that that's actually.

I feel this stuff. But I think that growth is so motivating. And it's also just exciting to know that some change really does happen in the act of the caregiving. So you don't have to be ready. I mean, it's great to get ready, but it's not like, I think you wake up one day.

Although I do think you're biologically like, I do think there's a moment biologically where you're like, it's time. I think I could have a baby. Yeah, for sure, I'm.

Tell me it's like, I mean, I'm kind of young to be like dating with this mindset. But you know, ultimately I want to get married and have kids. Not the hot cool thing to do. Excuse me everybody, but I this is rebellious.

This is rebellious, this is punk, it's fully punk now to get married and have kids. But dating through that lens is so daunting because you're like, all right. Not only am I trying to find somebody who I like for, you know, various reasons, you're also trying to find somebody who's going to be a good parent partner. And that was not in my mind at all for, you know, years, because I was just too young.

It didn't matter, and now I'm feeling the weight of like, I need to find somebody who checks so many boxes. And one of the most important ones being who's going to be a good parent to my child because I can do everything right and be an incredible parent. Not everything right you never do, but I can do almost everything right.

I can be a really good parent, but if the other parent is not, then it's like, this poor child now, you know, what a bummer, what a bummer. And so I'm curious, how do you know someone's a good partner for co-parenting?

And I will say, just to ease anybody's worry, it really only takes one caregiver that makes you feel seen and safe and secure to have positive outcomes for kids. So, like, a second one is great, obviously that's even better, but you're not screwed if you only have one.

And I think when you meet someone that is willing to be reflective and that is self-regulated enough to pause before they react. And when you see that they set appropriate boundaries, that they have the kind of rules for themselves and others that keep everyone kind of knowing what to expect and safe. And then I think repair is everything, because people in relationships and parent-child relationships do not have. Like a beautiful dance. It's messy, but when you can come back from it and this isn't, this is all in the research.

It's like how couples repair. How do you come back from a dysregulation? How do you come back from dysrepair? How do you come back from a fight? I would look at that more than I would look at whether or not you fight.

Because that's when you understand that there's stability in that person or not. You know somebody who has a fight with you and is like, that's it, that doesn't feel safe. Like the hard feelings part can't be a threat to the overall relationship, if it is. That person has to figure out what kind of experience they had in their early years.

That makes them think that any uncomfortable feelings means this is over. Yeah, so I would probably after going through all of the things that I just said, I would look at how they come.

No, that just will not happen. So, you know, it's. It's sort of comforting to hear that. It's like, who can you argue responsibly with? totally?

We look at how, not how a child responds when a parent leaves, we look at how the child responds when the parent returns. So the relationship isn't being judged by if you're screaming and sad if your parent goes away. It's not about that, it's really about do you forgive them when they come back.

Are you back in? Do you reconnect? That's the sign of the healthy relationship. Interesting. And so it's the same thing when we look at repair. And adults, like, how quickly do we have capacity to come back and make like a bid for reconnection?

If somebody holds a grudge, if somebody like, makes you prove your worthiness, if somebody makes you make up for it. Because you really did something that hurt them. What does that mean for their capacity for repair? Because, of course, you're not going to agree on everything, especially once you have kids. Yeah, so I would pay such close attention to that because that's the scary stuff. It's not when you're getting along.

It's like, how do we handle? And if you don't handle a fight well, or maybe you don't right, like, maybe you're the one who's like, when this happens, I'm out. Yeah, if there's someone that you feel so safe with, that, you can try the idea of not being out of believing that. Actually, it was just a fight and it's going to be. You're going to have learned from it, you're going to grow and you're going to come back together. That's a huge positive sign.

Like, they're bringing out the part of your psyche that's the most healthy.

Let's pivot to actually individual parent and child. Okay, your podcast is called Raising Good Humans. Give me a little spark. Notes What is a good human?

I mean, it's a little.

But we all know that if we sat down right now and wrote down on a piece of paper for five minutes straight, what is a good human? We could each circle like a few repeated words that just come to mind, for sure. And that, to me, is the exercise that everybody should do to figure out who they are, like, what, who do I want to be?

What is my center? I think the most important thing is that you are integrated, that your insides and your outsides are feeling aligned. So that's hard. It's hard to believe that your insides are worthy of showing up on the outside.

So if you can accomplish that kind of worthiness for your kids. I rarely see bad things come of that. But I definitely think raising good humans is about raising whatever you define as a good human, and it's really raising good parents, like it's really raising ourselves, mm-hmm.

Because kids are gonna be who they are. Yeah, it's not like we're controlling them, it's more like, can we, you know? Water, the seed that was planted to become the flower that's gonna bloom the best that it can while being that exact flower. But I try not to say what a good human is.

Yeah, I get it, because.

Because I can't, because, well, I don't think anyone can, like, there's not one definition.

There's not one, but it is true that we all can feel you feel it right when someone's a good person, yeah.

I mean, it's like, does that mean that they haven't fucked up? No, no, but it's like, it is very true that it's, it's something that we feel.

When do you think a friendship between a parent and a child?

Like, if you're having a blast with your parents, mm-hmm. And you're like, having a fun day and doing all the things you want to be doing and laughing together. Whatever, that's great. The minute it's unhealthy is when, let's say, your mother or father turns to you and says, I need you to take care of my emotional needs.

Mmm, it's like you want to feel like I the parent can take care of you, the child, and I can take care of me. So you can share your stuff with me. But I'm not going to...

It's not that reciprocal, like a best friend, yes, you tell each other your problems you share.

One of you is struggling, you take care of them, the other one's struggling, you take. It's very equal.

Mm-hmm. or it should be mm-hmm. With a child it. That would be a red flag to me.

If, like, that mother has nobody to turn to except for you, and then you as the child are like, I guess I have to be the caregiver to this person's emotions. Mm-hmm. That's when I think friendship takes a turn. That is unhealthy.

Yes, that makes total sense, so.

It's uncomfortable and weird, which I can imagine. Then causes a parent to not discipline when they should, to not do it right. And speaking of that, you know what is the right way to discipline a child? You know, is it being super gentle and like being like, you know, whatever?

Is it being more explosive, like, is there? Is it different, depending on, you know, the child and what they react best to?

In general, what have you seen is the best way to discipline a?

I'm not okay with you doing something dangerous with the iPad, so I will be removing it. And that's a natural and logical consequence. Yep, right, like, but if I said this is my rule, I'm not going to explain why. And it has nothing to do with the crime. That's not very effective.

So I think you can answer almost any discipline question with Did I honor the feeling like, I see you're really angry right now? That's allowed. And did I explain the behavior that is expected? You can't keep the iPad on, or you can't throw the iPad, or you can't whatever it is.

And then enforce it, like, that's what I said and it's predictable, and I told you about it in advance, and that's that. And then once your child knows, like, Oh, I'm allowed to have a feeling about this. And that's the first part you connect about. Like, I'm not just blindly. You know, I'm not just being a tyrant here. I see what you're going through and I'm so sorry about that.

And also I trust that you can get through this feeling of discomfort because that's part of being a person. Wow, yeah, and I'm still gonna take away that iPad. And that's just. That translates to every single scenario, what party you can go to, what your bedtime is, you know?

And, of course, as kids get older, you collaborate more with them. You ask them, like, in your ideal world, what time would you go to bed? You're not gonna say that to a two-year-old, but you would say that to a ten-year-old. And they might say something that feels totally unreasonable, and then you might have to say, okay, that. My job is to make sure that you're safe and healthy. So I can't say 2 a.m, but I see that you want a little bit later of a bedtime. Let's try this and we'll see how it goes.

So I think every single discipline issue can be boiled down to. All feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not, and I just have to be clear about it. What about the tone of voice? I was just thinking about that, because the thing is is, no, you shouldn't yell all the time, obviously, but yelling so if I....

I don't yell a lot, I'm not a yelly person. Yeah, me either. If I yell I, my kids would be either terrified or laughing because they would be so uncomfortable.

Yeah, if their dad yells, they don't even hear it, he's a yeller, so they're not scared. Interesting, Okay, yeah.

So it's actually more damaging when I yell, yeah, so it's like the tone ideally doesn't. When you look at your kids, if they're visibly scared, something's going wrong.

If they get you.

You know, I one side of my family is they're very loud immigrants, so, and my grandparents mostly were not speaking English in front of me. And they sounded like they were screaming all the time.

Yeah, nobody, like no one, was scared of that, right? It was their norm, that was just their norm.

So you have to almost look at how people are reacting. In the family. If that family's natural cultural norm is just like, you know, it's fine, yeah, but at the same time in another household, that could be really scary. So it's super dependent, and it's also the kids.

Like, there's a.

There's a scientist that I think divides children up in this way. That maybe sounds ridiculous, but it's so beautiful to me. Orchids, Dandelions and tulips. He studied orchid kids, and what he wanted to know was....

His name is Thomas Boise, and what he wanted to know was, why do some kids thrive in any environment like a dandelion, and some kids wither like an orchid? If they're not given the exact sunlight, water and soil? Yeah. And what was really interesting is that when they are given the exact sort of support system that they need, they bloom magnificently. Mm-hmm. And who are those kids?

They're mostly artists, creative people, highly sensitive people. They're people who's, you know, might be called thin-skinned. But really, you might think of it as like, you're just more porous, like you feel the air more. They have higher ear temperatures, like, it's a real thing being a highly sensitive person.

So to me, if I'm raising a child and I've got one who's more of a dandelion, who doesn't care? If I snap at them and say, like, grab your things, we're gonna be late. But I also have an orchid who is gonna be like, You hate me. I'm better off, just like taking a minute, yeah.

Before I say something, because they need a little bit more.

It's not coddling because they have to learn how to operate in the world. Yep, but you're just like, slowly, you're patient, because you know, they just thrive better with a more patient tone. Mm-hmm.

So I think tone of voice matters, depending on even the type of child you have. Yeah, if you have that orchid kid, you need to pay a little bit.

Interesting, It's interesting that, you know, the answer is.

Okay, I'm just gonna.

That the feelings, part of it, that you're seeing your child, you're acknowledging them, you're paying attention, and you're setting boundaries. That could be gentle parenting, right? but it could also be that gentle parenting is you never set boundaries. So because it's not, there's no one definition I like to assume. The more generous interpretation is that what people mean is. We're gonna take an approach that is child-centered, around seeing how the child feels, what's going on, being sensitive, but that we'll still have boundaries and whatever.

In which case, like with all things, it's all back to the same. Authoritative parenting, yeah, and it's just like mindful parenting, gentle parenting, whatever the popular phrase is, but it's all it means the same thing. We just like, go through different ways of talking about it. So I have a reaction to it, but my reaction is more like, it's so unfair to parents. Because it's like, so vague. And it might give the impression that it's about, like, something just soft. To the point of not having boundaries. And then parents are like, Am I allowed to have a rule?

Well, that's why I don't like the word or the.

No, but I think that's half the time, right, I think you're.

Yeah, speaking.

Okay, it's.

Like, they're not ready for that, if it's going to stretch them, they're gonna be uncomfortable, they're not gonna like it. That builds resilience. So that's like, what I always ask parents is is what you're asking of your child, something that is survivable. But you just don't think that it's fair to have them be uncomfortable, because that is a terrible message.

Yeah, right, like, they should know that your adult self isn't like, Oh my God, it's the end of the world. I'm gonna tell them to give you the part in the play that you didn't get. Yeah, like that is a weird message.

Or I'm gonna fix the bad grade, or I'm gonna tell that kid to invite you to the birthday party. Those are normal, shitty things that we have to go through in life. And then the key with the with our parents is that there are people we can come to and cry and say. That felt horrible, but that they're not gonna be like, I can't have you feeling as horrible, let me fix it. So we have this whole need to fix the hard feelings. And then kids don't experience the those very challenges that make them resilient. What about when a child wants to go do something?

But, like, let them explore a bit, but also let them explore a bit. Because it's like. My parents were pretty chill about me doing whatever, and as a result, I actually wasn't. I was the least crazy out of the group. My parents were like, go and do whatever you want, but tell us what you're doing and we'll tell you the risks.

What you do with that information is up to you, you know. Is that a good way to handle it? Did they nail it or no, I?

There are certain things that are too risky because your life is in danger, but there's lots of risky stuff that doesn't put your life in danger. That is just going to be a dumb idea and those things. It is great for parents to be like, here's the thing. If that happens, here's the consequence. And you get to make the choice of whether or not you're gonna do it. I think, to the point of, you know, reasonable, that's great.

We all have a.

I know, maybe a little lemonade, yeah, like, maybe we put a little lemonade in there, but it's the idea that you can't. Yeah, bubble wrap the world, which is just hard, and that's part of our development as adults, yeah.

That our loved ones can handle difficult experiences knowing that they're gonna come out the other side. That is like the biggest gift you can get, which you can only get from experience. Yeah, how do?

Then I'm back in sometimes, I mean, sometimes it takes some time. But I'm curious, what's the most effective way to apologize to your child? and how do you know when an apology is?

Or grown-ups, and you know, the ones who weren't apologized to because they feel like the screw-up is irreparable and like they hate themselves for it. But if you have a situation where you have to apologize to your child. I think the most important thing to do is kind of, I mean, the biohack of like, putting your hand on your heart and just taking a breath and saying, like, I screwed up. But I'm a good mom, you know, and I'm gonna make repairs.

It gives you like a little moment of self-compassion. Yes, when you apologize, I don't want you as the parent to make your child feel like you're just berating yourself over and over. So you can be like, Hey, I expect that sometimes I'm gonna mess up. This was one of those times.

Here's what I did that I wish I hadn't done. Let me know how I can make it right, you know? And in the future, here's what I'm gonna do to do better. It's a, you know, it could be as big as that, it could be as small as letting someone pick the movie and laughing together, and you just kind of know.

You just kind of got back, yeah. But I do think that the first part of the apology has to be with yourself, so that your child recognizes that it's not the end of the world to have to apologize, right?

So maybe there is no such thing as, like, over apologizing. I guess when I think of over apologizing, I think it's when parents apologize for creating boundaries, right? Totally like that's.

That's like a bullshit apology. Yeah, totally, you know, but the ones where it's like, I just took your weak, vulnerable spot and I took advantage of it. And I criticized you for something that I know you have deep shame about. That is very hard to admit because it really makes you feel shitty. Yeah, I mean, you look in the mirror and you're like, who did this?

I did this, but, you know, like then we remember we're people, yeah, and we're just gonna keep being people, yep.

Do you?

Bring some damage with them throughout their life. Because I swear my parents were fucking amazing, like I really did have phenomenal parents, but you know, I.

So open, so receptive. So, like, you know, my mom apologizes on a weekly basis to me about various things. She's like, I just remember this one thing I did when you were like 12 and I feel so bad. It was so mean and I'm like, Hey, it's all good.

And I do forgive my parents for every little thing that they've ever done. But I have noticed that certain things have impacted the way that I am in friendships, the way that I am in romantic relationships. And that, you know, the apology doesn't change that, right? And so now, you know, it's taking a whole nother.

You know, I have to go back in and now address that and unlearn that, and, you know, get to the bottom of that. Because now that's sort of become my own philosophy. That now has nothing to do with them anymore, because they've repaired what they've done, the lingering effects I have to handle now.

Who needs that? But it is interesting to be able to say, like, what are you drawn to in romantic relationships? and is that aligned with what you would like to be drawn to in romantic relationships? And how do you respond? And those things do come from.

The way I internalize that was I'm being put on the back burner. So then now I'm super anxiously attached because I'm like, I can just be.

It really, it sets you up to have all relationships like that. But it does sound like your, you know, natural inclination might be to be worried that someone's leaving. And so your challenge is to either choose people who are really comfortable, making sure you feel safe. Because sometimes when you have that tendency, you are attracted to people who are very I love an avoidant man.

Yeah, like, what's sexier to somebody with right? It's terrible, and by the way, somebody who's super, super needy would probably be so annoying for you, yeah.

I hate that, too, and you would become avoidant, so it's more like how you are in relationship to someone else. And so it's finding the fit of someone who doesn't bring out that part. That is actually a really phenomenal point, because.

And so you're 22. Like, how are you going to convince your body and your nervous system to be attracted to someone who is safe? While at the same time, that's who you want to partner with? Yeah, those are two, like, really opposing things and so growing into, especially if you bend anxious in that way, growing into finding.

And it's really.

And then here I am, decades later, and I remember it. Because it's hard not to confuse those things. But yeah, when you can find two nervous systems that bring out a sense of ease and you don't think of it as boring and lame, you win.

What their parents envision them to be like. You know you should get this job, you should get married at this age, you know you should do this, you should do that. What are your advice for parents on how to not do that and how to let go of those, you know, expectations? And what are your advice to kids when it comes to blocking out that noise and doing what you want to do, I think, for parents?

So I think that is part of it is just what values do you want your children to feel you value if that's a sentence and just checking in with what you perceive is important. And one thing that you can always do with people is like, do. Kind of a family mission statement where you kind of say, in this household, we value. And you pick three things. And when your kids get to even age four, ask them what they think you value. And if there is a misalignment, it's a good, it's just information. Like, if you're like, we value kindness, compassion and persistence, but your kids are like, I think you value hard work, performance and success.

No judgment on either of those, but there's a misalignment. So figuring out whether or not you, or be honest with your kids, you know. It's almost worst if you pretend that you don't care about certain things, but you do. And then for young people resisting, looking outward for your worth, which is impossible. But it's just a practice, it's a practice every day of recognizing and getting the courage up, starting with your parents. Because they're the people that are not going anywhere. Hopefully, of saying this is who I am and realizing you're still.

As a parent, what's the responsible way to enforce boundaries with the internet? You know, because it's so. It's such a nightmare. I mean, my parents kind.

And that's but even with me, psychologically, as much as it literally built a career for me. And and you know, I'm obviously beyond grateful for that. It also has given me. I mean, there's so much damage that it's also caused. What kind of damage do you feel like it's caused? Well, I mean, for sure, severe body image issues throughout my whole life, I mean, since I was like, 10, okay?

I think it makes my anxiety a lot worse. I'm already an anxious person. It definitely exacerbates depression for me, which I also already have. Or maybe I, or maybe those are byproducts. It could be because I've been on the internet since I was so young.

I've struggled more recently with like, kind of OCD, like perfectionism in a way that's like not normal, like it's like, okay, we need to, not. This is like too much, you know, all from the internet, or at least made worse by the internet.

Perfectionism, like you named every, everything, yeah, and it's also we're like, in a post-truth world now, like, I don't even know what's happening right now online.

I know and I also know what it feels I I will sit for. Certainly recently, for so long, I don't know how time has gone by. And I'm just watching things. And my, I can feel my entire body is just like, basically shaking, and it's so bad, I know.

And I think about like, young nervous systems, so basically, I think, because it's the kind of addictive, tricky mechanism. We have to create certain boundaries, like I do not allow electronics past 10 in bedrooms, no matter what. And that's not an argument we ever have. Because this is me. Protecting you from what is a reasonable want, which is to just be able to be up all night scrolling with your friends, doing whatever. I can't imagine how you could have the self-control with a teenage brain.

Like it, it, it's, it's all gas, no brakes. Like I. I'm there as a support system for that. Yep, but unless we're on vacation, yeah.

But then, um, I think it depends on the individual. I think you have to look and see. How is your particular teenager managing social media? How? What is their algorithm look like? If their algorithm is like a bunch of puppies and bunnies doing funny things, I'm not worried about it, yeah.

So I think you can tell by just checking in and you're paying the bills for the most part, so that can be an agreement. It's not a sneaky thing. It's like, Look, I have to know your passwords. I'm not going to just spy like I'm allowed to, but that's not, I'm not doing that for fun.

I'm going to check in every once in a while. As a responsible parent. If things are looking like there's a problem, we'll figure out a solution, yeah, if things are looking fine. But mealtime and sleep time, to me, are sacred from from screens, I think that's.

So it's like, you can't not give them, you know, the phone at all. But also they will, they will 100 surely have a negative psychological effect. There will. There will be a negative effect if they are overdoing it. And it's like, they will feel that. Yeah, and I think, if you can warn them of that, I guess that's the.

Like, but they just might need help, like, I feel like a lot of teenagers find relief in just being forced to have.

Really, you know, like, what, what do you think? is sort of a curve ball if you.

And what's been so interesting about it is when I just let myself sit in it. When I come out the other side, I feel truly resolved, right?

And, you know, my entire life before that, it was like every time I'd feel uncomfortable, I'd just try to find a way to feel comfortable again. So, you know? And now I'm like, No, I'm just going to sit in it and I'm just going to see what happens. Knowing that at some point it will end, that's the key, it.

For you, it's like, don't take away my ability to just be sad right now and just whatever. And I think that that's so huge with parenting, but also across the board in life, you know, even with how you parent yourself as an adult. You know, it's like you have to learn to sit with every emotion and figure out how you manage it. But I think, you know, when it comes to parenting, it's like, what do you say when your child is upset?

Instead of saying like, Oh, don't feel this way, do you validate without changing if that's?

Is a totally reasonable question, but first, you have to acknowledge it and let them know, otherwise the other risk is that they then have to either convince you so it gets bigger. Like, No, here are the all. It's like, try to tell somebody who's afraid of flying all the reasonable statistics about why they shouldn't be afraid of flying, yeah.

A person afraid of flying is going to be like, I'll one up you on each one of those things with, you know, whatever what. You can't argue with anxiety. Yes, an anxious person is going to outwin that argument. A kid feeling a feeling is going to have to lie about their feeling.

Or feel like they can't trust their own feelings unless you validate them and let them have them. And I just think it's important for them to know you can handle it and it's hard, it's really hard. I, I messed this up all the time. But when you can sit there and not feel total just devastation, your child's experience, you're showing them that you can handle it.

And who wants to, you know, even if you think about friends like, who do you want to talk to about your troubles or your sadness? Is it the one who's like, trying to convince you out of it, or is it the one who's just like, let this shit out, you're so valid? And then eventually, let's like, take off our sweat pants, get outside and like, do something that feels good.

But first, I'm going to let you indulge in this feeling, I'm not going to make you feel ashamed of it. Let's just do it, let's just be there. Those are the people that you're calling on because they can handle it.

Absolutely true. Amen. amen. thank you for coming on. Oh my God.

Thank you for having me. This was so phenomenal. you're so wonderful. like, what a thoughtful, cool, awesome.

I want to interview you, you should come on my podcast. I've never had a person that will be like, I would love that because I could ask you so many questions, I.