Flightless Bird: Healthcare II

I'm, David Farrier, in New Zealand, accidentally marooned in, well, New Zealand right now. Because, as we informed you a few months ago, I got on a plane to fly back to New Zealand after being defeated by the American healthcare system. I needed to sort my back out, my spine. The spine of a tall 40-year-old man who spends too much time sitting in a desk typing. My back had decided to create havoc with my discs and my nerves, making my life, temporarily, a kind of small living hell.

Flightless, flightless, flightless bird, touchdown in America. I'm a flightless bird, touchdown in America.

I'm back!

You're back in the attic!

David's home! It's been, I was away for almost two months, which is a very long time.

Very.

It was confusing.

Yes, and Dax wondered if you would ever return.

Yeah, I heard there was a fear from Dax that I might not be coming back at all, which is such a strange concept, because I was never intending not to come back.

You never know, when you get home, what will happen. You did leave all your stuff.

I left all my stuff in America. I paid my rent check three months in advance, so that I wouldn't be panicking about that. That was the main thing that stressed me out. I have to pay my rent via check, but not via bank transfer or anything, so I thought that was my main stress. If I'm not in America, how am I going to pay my rent?

Oh, God.

And then I was thinking, what if I am away for months and months, and my landlord doesn't get my new checks? What? Do I get, is all my stuff on the street? What happens?

Eviction.

Oh, my God. That would be an episode.

That would be. I don't know that they can actually throw your stuff on the street, though, because California residency laws are pretty in favor of the resident.

So I could be protected. Maybe.

We don't know.

Yes, I'm home.

But also, I can't blame, this is, I guess, immediately is controversial, but if you're not paying rent for a significant period of time, I can't blame a landlord for saying you-.

It would be annoying not getting their rent.

You can't be here anymore.

I think being a landlord would be quite difficult if you aren't getting money.

Yeah.

But also, if you can't afford your rent, that's also very stressful. It's stressful for anyone.

All of it's stressful.

But my point is, I am lucky enough to be able to have written those checks. Yes. They all got cashed. So I kept my place. New Zealand was a weird time because I was trying to sort out my back situation.

Right.

But I also got to see my nieces and do New Zealand. things like eat cookie times. And I bought you all some cookie times.

And it looks delicious.

Is it okay if I throw this cookie time towards you? So this is a cookie time, biscuit. Rob, this is yours.

Wow. Mine is original chocolate chunk.

This is the best one. So this is from the cafeteria episode, where this is the main thing that New Zealand kids, when I was growing up, got from the school cafeteria. It was a dollar. Yes. You'd put it for 30 seconds in the microwave, and it was the most delicious thing around.

I do.

And I also bought... You have to fight over this. As I was in New Zealand, this cookie time like peanut butter came out.

Okay. Why don't you ever learn your lesson that you have to get both of us equal?

I got you both a cookie. I know. But there was this jar transporting this jar back. I only had one suitcase. It was packed with New Zealand treats.

Okay. Fine.

But this is Fix and Fold Cookie Time, Cookie Crunch. It's brand new.

Oh, I love brand new.

This is amazing stuff. And I think this is a bit like the equivalent to America, how you have cookie dough. Have you seen cookie dough flavored topping?

Well, I think it's like Speculoos or cookie butter.

What did you say? Cookie butter.

Cookie butter. It's actually called Speculoos.

That sounds like some sort of STI.

It sounds like jizz.

Yeah, it sounds sexual. Yeah. It really does. I like cookie butter better.

Well, cookie butter also could be a euphemism.

Oh my God. It could be, actually.

And this is that.

This is the New Zealand version, I think, as just a beautiful, sweet, creamy topping for your toast.

So you can try that. And it says, living wage, accredited, proudly, donating to city missions and women's refugee. Wow.

Welcome to New Zealand. This is how we do things. I love it. Yeah. That's like our premium brand of peanut butter.

Oh, that's so nice.

Yeah, it was really nice of them. So that's like a brand new thing.

Did you get one for yourself?

I ate it all pretty much straight away. I felt sick. Yes, so there were two.

Oh, my God.

But I ate one. It's a real problem.

Yeah.

I just spooned it out.

I guess it's like when people eat peanut butter from the jar.

Yeah. But yeah, halfway through, I just started feeling a bit ill. Anyway, that's cookie time. What else can I tell you about New Zealand? It was hailing a lot of the time and wet and cold.

And how did that make you feel?

It felt great to know that New Zealand hadn't gone away. Like I'd spent decades in New, Zealand, and it's not like it had all vanished.

Right.

But it also made me feel a bit uneasy, because I felt like America was becoming home and I felt like I can't have two homes, but I just want to be in one or the other. So it felt odd. So by the time it came time to come back, I was like, I'm ready to go back to the United States. I need to learn more. I've got so much more to learn about this fucking weird, interesting country.

So much to learn. But I bet, because you don't like to be vulnerable, but it's 2023 and you said you're going to be more honest this year.

I did.

I feel like what you're not saying is that you feel a real connection to America, and it's conflicting because New Zealand's your home, but New Zealand's not really your home anymore. And this is hard to grapple with. This is an identity shift.

It is weird. I've spent a long time in New Zealand and I'm really, my whole life, almost 40 years, right? New Zealand, New Zealand, always New Zealand. And it feels really good to be somewhere. There's something about America and how big it is, and just all the different things.

I like that because sometimes on this show, we poke a lot of holes into what's wrong with America and issues with American culture. I like that. you were back home and you thought, you know what? I miss that place.

Yeah, I really did. Yeah. And I missed my friends as well. I missed you guys. I actually did.

Who did you miss more?

You can't do that. That's a horrible thing to do and I won't be answering it. I miss, like a parent, talking about their children. I love everyone equally and I miss you all the same. Everyone has their different pluses and minuses, you know?

Okay. Well, you answered that correctly. Thank you. Good job, not answering. Thank you.

Friends are one thing, because I think I've got really good people here. Yeah. I miss people. That doesn't count. I miss- I want more specifics.

Oh, it's weird in New Zealand a little bit?

Yeah. You have to go out with other people. Oh. And so here I love that. I can go to a bar and I can just sit up at the bar, and that's fine.

Yeah.

So I miss that a lot.

Okay. That's number one.

I miss my local little movie theater, that I go to, the Las Villas Three, because I love that little theater and I like watching films more than almost anything. And I miss the heat.

Wow.

It was really cold and I know it was baking over here. It was. But I like being warm. I think it's better to be hot and to be able to cool down than to be freezing, trying to get warm again.

I agree. Actually, I think this is a split vote for a lot of people.

Yeah.

I'm on the opposite. You like being cold. I hate being cold. So I'm with you. I'd rather be burning up.

Yeah. Cold to your bones is such a horrible feeling. It is. And warming up again, having to be in that hot shower, trying to get warm again, horrific. Shivering.

Getting warmer. Put a blanket or a sweater on. How do you get colder?

Cold shower. Cold shower.

You have, like, one option.

I love swimming laps of pools. And so I love being in LA and being, like, really hot and being able to jump into a pool and just swim. I found a local one. now that's $3 a session. Oh, wow.

Where?

I'm going to keep it secret. No, I can't tell anyone. No, no, I'm absolutely not telling anyone, because no one knows about it.

I hate swimming. I don't know how to swim. So you don't have to worry. I'm not going swimming either.

I'm not going to. It's too risky. It's too risky. David, you're so selfish. This is one of my best new discoveries.

It's close to here?

It's eight minutes away.

So you're going to the Hollywood pool?

No. No. Is that $3 too? It's not the Hollywood pool.

It's $4.. The Hollywood pool for adults.

Look, I've just found a place that-.

You're so American. You became so selfish when you got back here, and now you won't share your secret pool. Pacific community pool?

That's it.

You should have told us. Then we would never-, Then we wouldn't have had to do this, David. Yes. Now we wouldn't have to tell everyone where you swim.

I can't. I'm really unhappy about this. I feel so stressed.

You are squirming a lot. Okay, listen. But this is good, because now swimming is also a ding, ding, ding, because, spoiler alert, you can swim and you walked in here today.

I walked in. I'm doing really well. Yeah, you're doing well. And I want to explain how all this happened. Yes.

Great. And if anyone wants to see David swimming, it's Pacific Community Pool, 509 South Pacific Avenue.

You're going to beat this out.

No, you're not.

No.

I make the final calls here. This pool.

There's no one in the lanes. I'm there. It's finally a place I can swim without all you guys and such fucking... Back in May, something happened to my spine. It was while I was recording an upcoming episode on bail bonds in Oklahoma City.

I've had all types of different injuries in my life, but back pain, almost nothing really compares to it. It becomes your entire life and identity.

I'd called up Luke O'Neill as I went through all this. We'd last talked for our healthcare episode last year. Luke writes about the American healthcare system in a newsletter called Welcome to Hellworld. I'd just read his new book, A Creature Wanting Form, and was reminded he too had a bad back. This is podcast Hell.

I don't know if you've tweeted about it and stuff a lot, but whenever you do, you will find dozens and dozens of people that want to talk about it. It's like a secret little, well, not a secret club, but it's like a very popular club.

I'd never meant to join the Navigating the American Healthcare System Club, but here I was.

Getting them to turn on the MRI machine in the first place, it's like asking them to fire a rocket to space, you know?

At the end of the following week, I finally saw my doctor. $65 copay. He didn't look or touch my leg. He didn't break a sweat. He just listened to me describe the symptoms, then offered to refer me to an orthopedic surgeon.

Paying $300.. Cash only. That's very funny. You have to know something is wrong there. But that's the thing.

I was curious to see my spine, but was handed the images on a CD-ROM. I requested a digital version as I didn't have a CD drive. Who did? They only come on a CD, sir, came the reply. Take these to your doctor.

In a way, you feel, for the doctors, I mean, some of them are just trying to gouge everyone as much as they can and get rich, and there's lots of shady doctors, but a lot of them are saying now, I can't deal with these insurance companies either. I'm just not going to take insurance anymore. I'm going to charge cash.

The next day, I called up my doctor's office and told them that I needed a second referral. I found a surgeon that my insurance covered. They seemed great and had great reviews, but it turns out, they weren't in network with my PCP. I said to my PCP, dear God, what surgeons do you refer to? that my insurance also accepts?

Dun, dun, dun.

Cliffhanger. So, it was my experience in America. Have you ever dealt with American, like, have you ever had an injury? And had to deal with, you know, nothing?

No, no. I have. I had a seizure. I don't know if you remember.

I remember the seizure. Do you remember that as well?

That was before you moved to America, or after? Yeah, that's when I was born in India, and I had a seizure.

And then- How was your experience with the seizure? Well- You've got better insurance.

I do. And that was why it was okay. It's still expensive. I still had to pay stuff, but I had a PPO plan.

Yeah. So, which is just way more flexible, right? It is.

You can kind of go anywhere you need to go. You have a deductible, and so you will pay up to that deductible, which is, you know-.

A decent hit.

It is. But it's much better than HMO plans. I did tell you both this so many times, and- You did.

And I just-.

You got bit by a squirrel, and I reiterated that you needed to get on a PPO, and then you still didn't, and then this happened.

You absolutely told me very clearly that I shouldn't have been on an HMO. I'm going to swap to a PPO, but you're locked in it for the year, so I have to get through the year, and then I-.

This was way before a year, though, because I'm PPO now. Yeah, he finally listened. You listened. Rob did listen.

And it's going well, Rob?

It's going great.

I found out a thing about the squirrel, by the way. Oh, what? Apparently, squirrels can't carry rabies, because generally, if they're bitten by something that has rabies, they just die. It'll generally be something bigger, like a raccoon, and it's more likely they'll just get eaten and killed by the thing, as opposed to-.

Bitten, and then they run away.

Bitten, and then they run away and survive. So I thought that was an interesting bit of trivia, and that's why squirrels don't carry rabies. Well, technically, they could.

Right. So they still have to give you the shot, just in case.

Just in case. Oh, wow.

But the likelihood that it's carrying is very low.

So low. It never happened.

Wow.

It hasn't happened. And yeah, that's just a very obvious thing that if they get attacked by a rabid dog or a raccoon, they're just going to get torn apart.

Wow. Anyway. Okay, good update.

A couple of stats I found out. In 2022, the US spent an estimated $12,000 per person on healthcare, the highest healthcare cost per capita across the OECD, which is just super high compared with other spots.

It is, though, but it's tricky, because a lot of that is older people. We need to maybe do brackets.

Yeah. But just overall, it's a lot of money. It is. 28 million Americans don't have any medical insurance.

I thought that was illegal when Obamacare, oh, they repealed that?

Yeah. No. I mean, it's like they're not paying for it. I guess they're on Medicaid.

Right. Okay.

I suppose they'd be on that as opposed to like having an Anthem policy or whatever policy I have.

Okay.

And 77 million people lack dental coverage. Oh, that's very common.

Do you have dental?

Yeah.

I have dental and vision. Yeah. Wow. Good job.

Fancy.

You really stepped it up.

Another crazy stat I found from diabetes in America, I'm getting off the beaten track, but I just started looking at numbers. Oh my God. A toe, foot, or leg is cut off by a doctor in America 150,000 times a year.

Yeah.

America is, like the world, leader in amputations from diabetes complications.

Yeah. Oof.

The main thing I found crazy in America with the plan I was on was just the level of slowness to everything. For instance, just getting a list of in-network surgeons, it had to be physically mailed to me in a letter.

Right. That's crazy.

It's crazy, right?

That is absolutely crazy. But I think that's where you went. That doesn't sound normal to me at all.

I think I had a very bad place that I signed up to. Yeah. Even though we're living in a really nice area, this place is real, it was real bad. Hence why I went back to New Zealand.

Yeah, but also you could have gone to a different place here.

No, that's the thing. I couldn't.

Why?

So what do you mean? Because this is the thing I found crazy.

You could have switched PCPs. You went to a not good primary care physician.

Swapping was going to take three weeks to change to another one. And then to get an appointment with a doctor there would take another whatever. So it was more like a time thing.

I mean, you probably could have gotten further outside the city and gotten in quicker. If you go to like Arcadia. It's because we're so densely populated here, I think is more right. That is true. So if you drive an hour outside of LA, you probably could have gotten in.

I was so stressed. You were.

You were really stressed. When all this was going down, I connected you with my friend, who is a physical therapist, over the phone. She lives in North Carolina.

She was great.

Yeah. She's great. Shout out, Gina. She's an amazing PT. And first thing she asked was the same thing.

Yeah. Good question.

And I texted you. How's your pee and poop? And- Can you send a picture back? Immediately. I need proof.

She did.

But you were so panicked at this point-.

Yeah. Yeah, because-.

That your leg would never work again.

Totally. No, because, and I want to reiterate this, and I still find it crazy, that the doctor I paid $1,000 to see, he looked me in the eye and told me, chances are, even if you get this operation, you will limp forever. He told me that very specifically. I'm going to go back- Yeah. And just say what's happened since, because that isn't the case.

Right, at all.

And then I had this other who was honestly super shady. I'm not exaggerating. He told me the same thing, but then also said, you need to get a fusion, which is-.

You better call Saul, doctor. Yeah.

Oh, he was pretty much, like this was dicey as hell. And I looked at reviews of him online afterwards and it was just a list of people saying things like I'm saying.

Did you find him on the internet? Oh, you found him from the list.

He was given to me by my doctor, so my doctor referred me to him. And so when I saw that he was that bad, that's when I tried to get a separate list so I could research them and then go.

People are going to be mad at me for saying this, but I have to say it. No, hit me. This is like what my dad, this is like his life's mission, like his mantra. You're not to, okay.

What do you mean? Sometimes you can't predict the crisis, right?

But like now? Do it now. Exactly. Now.

No, totally.

And whoever's listening, if they're not in crisis and they're like, eh, I just don't know, because I don't want to worry or spend. You have to, you have to do it now, or else you find yourself in this horrible position where you're going to this. better call Saul.

Totally organize your stuff ahead of time so that you can work within this slightly crazy system.

And hopefully you never have to, hopefully nothing ever happens, and it's just really annoying to have to pay that fucking amount.

After the rabies and this back thing, I feel like.

You had enough warning that you should have figured it out then. Yeah.

I just wish I'd been, I just got sucked into the vortex of, I think, fear. I got scared with the rabies, the telehealth person scared me, saying I needed to go and get the rabies vaccine if we've been bitten by a squirrel. I listened to the doctor. And then, with this, those two surgeons really panicked me again and just got me in this big spin. Plus.

We've got healthcare, being illegal or not. Health insurance is not mandatory at a federal level, but some states impose a tax penalty if you don't have health insurance. But the federal government stopped doing that in 2019.. I think Trump.

Oh, it just stopped.

Well, because it was under Obamacare, you had to have it, but then he repealed that, I guess. But it sounds like it was just a penalty anyways on your taxes. Right. Okay. Okay.

Stay tuned for more Flightless Bird. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

Okay, so what happened in New Zealand?

At 6am on July 2nd, I landed in Auckland, New Zealand, where my experience would be very different to America. And a sidebar here, I'm really lucky in that I have private health insurance in New Zealand. I pay $888 New Zealand dollars for private insurance each year, that's $553 American dollars, for a pretty decent plan. For a comparison, my shitty American plan cost me $4,320 American dollars a year. Now I could have used New Zealand's public health system, but it is crushed under waitlists and they're not particularly great at covering spines, but it does exist.

I saw you work on podcasts and writing and stuff like that. You can make your own hours. Imagine being somebody with kids, or you're working two jobs or something like that. The answer for those people here in America is basically go, fuck yourself. You're screwed.

Luke is always incredibly cynical in his view, and I love his writing, but I think he's got a point. If I had money, I would have gotten better care, and without it, you just have to battle a lot harder, I guess.

You do. This is hard. I mean, I think the American obviously everyone knows the American health care system has so many issues. I don't think anyone would fight back on that, but I think it's a little bit apples and oranges doing a comparison to New Zealand, because New Zealand is a small ass country.

It's a totally different system. A hundred percent. It's a different system and a different size. We can't do that.

We literally, I don't think we can replicate that in the same way. And when people say the same thing about Canada, and I also have friends who are Canadian who say the public health care system there isn't great.

Totally. And the one in New Zealand as well, the public health care system in New Zealand is really struggling at the moment. And there's real horror stories about people there not being able to get care as well. So even in New Zealand, the public system is really struggling.

You use the private.

I use my private system back there.

Which is essentially what here, what he's saying is the rich person thing.

Exactly. I absolutely use the rich person version in New Zealand.

Which is just a lot cheaper than here, which is amazing. But it is because of the amount of people, I think. I think if it had the amount of people we do, I don't know that it'd be able to be that cheap. I don't know. The real thing that solved your problem is they had your history.

Totally. They had more info in New Zealand because they had my old imaging.

Which wasn't the fault then of the Better Call Saul doctor. You didn't give him enough information. Also, the Better Call Saul doctor is obviously a crook. That is true. And I think maybe there's more room for scamming here.

Oh, absolutely. And yeah, obviously some of them do get paid for surgeries.

But the Ben Affleck guy wouldn't have.

The good looking Ben Affleck guy wasn't out to scandalize me.

He looked like Ben Affleck. I didn't even hear that part. He was handsome with white teeth.

He was just a handsome guy. The guy that I paid for and a thousand dollars to, he was so across everything. But what played into it, I'd gone and got that cash, MRI. That MRI was dicey. So he didn't have all the information he needed to see everything else.

But that was the $300 one, right?

That was the $300 cash job.

Yeah, but also David, obviously, I'm sorry, but no, you can't pay, what generally costs, like thousands of dollars to pay $300 to walk in cash.

Like you got scammed. But again, that's crazy that that exists. That was in this area as well. That's a scam. That's like a legitimate place that sits there.

That being allowed doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Yeah, totally.

Because obviously it's not, if the bottom's cut off, it's not real.

Yeah, I mean, they just didn't scan down far enough. I think we're both on the same page. Like the fact that exists as a thing, sure, like, I'm a total idiot for going there and paying cash for this thing, but the fact that exists is bad in the first place. It's so awful.

And it makes it impossible to navigate. People that don't have time that you do or the intelligence that you do, how is anyone else supposed to figure that out? if you're getting scammed, it's hard for you to figure it out. So many people are getting scammed. I mean, that's so shitty.

And this is the most flexible job ever, this podcast. We sort of make our own hours and we'll work around each other. And so if you're locked into a nine to five, like the amount of time I spent on the phone, you're with kids and stuff. The amount of time I spent on the phone was bonkers. And I can just imagine the people that just aren't able to navigate and just end up going down whatever road they're sent down and end up getting their spine fused when maybe they don't need to.

Yeah.

There's this really amazing book called Crooked, which it's a play on words like crooked spines, but it's about specifically the back pain industry just in general. There's so many dicey operators that flow in around it, because when you have back pain, all you want to do is fix it. Of course. It's debilitating. Like it's so sore.

We learned some stats on armchair once. Basically, you have a 50% chance after a back surgery that it'll work. That's why a lot of people really try PT. first. They're like, let's give it our all here.

And it sucks. Yeah. No, totally. And in that doc, which I'd recorded a while ago, now, I'm not limping at all. now.

Yeah.

And yeah, obviously if you need back surgery, you need back surgery and people get it and it can help. It doesn't help other people. But if you can avoid it for as long as possible, that's the main takeaway. And I just can't believe the kerfuffle. I mean, I flew back to New Zealand.

I know. I wonder if you had gone to a very highly renowned doctor here, PPO doctor, PPO, highly renowned orthopedic surgeon, if they would have said the same thing your doctor said in New Zealand.

Totally, just give it some time. Let's think about this.

Do PT, it's hardcore. And then see. I kind of think they would. Yeah. I would hope so.

And they totally, of course they don't.

Well, they also really don't. We have the best doctors in the world and that they're expensive. And then you get into, I guess that's its own sidebar conversation. If you're the best doctor in the world and you've worked really fucking hard to be that. Should you not make the money?

If you're doing amazing work, you should absolutely get paid. You just hope the incentive isn't there that you must operate. Yeah.

But that means your customer base is just people with means that can afford it. And if you're not, then you get lesser care.

And I feel that's sort of the situation. we're sitting in here a little bit. And that's the tricky thing.

But I do think that's a problem in a lot of places, not just here. If we were in New Zealand, it would be a similar thing. If you don't have the money for the private insurance, you might find yourself in this exact same position there.

The cool thing about New Zealand is the knowledge that if you don't have any health insurance, you will get help. It might take a while to get there, but you will get the surgery and you will get the help.

Completely for free. Yeah.

Completely for free. Yeah. Which is just an amazing kind of a thing.

Yeah. I agree.

And I think there's, and this is just me probably being naive, but I think there's a world where I know we pay so many taxes here, certainly doing California. But you'd think if we could all just put a bit more into health care and have that money for everyone.

Yeah. Dax has a good point on this, where he says it's obviously annoying to have to put all this money up front. He was like, but we're going to pay anyway. And when people end up in the ER, they don't get turned away. We do take care of them.

Like get it at the front. And that's the thing actually, when you think about something like diabetes and the cost of chopping people's legs off, if you could catch it upstream in the healthcare system and catch it, then, then we're not going to have to pay for all those insane number of surgeries. I agree.

I totally agree.

But look, it's weird. I had a great time there. I didn't get any surgery done.

Yeah. And you're fine.

I'm glad to be back here. And my main aim is just to mostly avoid, at the moment, avoid doctors for a little bit while I'm here. I don't want to get bitten by anything.

Yeah, but I do want you to...

I don't want to injure myself. I'm going to change plans.

Change plans. And you're doing PT weekly?

I'm doing PT. And I'm doing...

And you're swimming at the Pacific Center on...

Yeah, I'm swimming at the Pacific Pool. Community pool. No, it's really beautiful. And I'm sure they need more support.

See, there you go. So, sign up. Well, we'll know what kind of reach we have if zero people show up at the pool. Also, let's not paint with a bra, but not everyone knows how to swim. No.

No, they don't. Whoa. So... How's your swimming doing these days? So...

I don't think I know how.

This is... Okay. So you don't... This is interesting. You don't know this about...

Oh, my.

No, no. I know.

I know that swimming isn't, like, a favorite thing, but I wasn't sure. You're going to sink eventually.

Well, I technically know how. I learned when I was younger. I just haven't done it in so long.

Oh, but we've got to go to Glendale. No.

Well, there's a pool, like, 100 feet or 50 feet that way. I know, but I'm too afraid. I have to try it in private, but then the problem is, if I try it in private and I drown, then I'm dead.

No, I have something.

Yeah, so... That pool has... It's shallow enough. You could just swim... Oh, that's true.

Do a few little swims. I think that's important. I'm doing Pilates here, which I found very intimidating, because I was reminded of what LA is like.

So, fit and stuff?

Where everyone looks... Yeah, everyone's just fit, and everyone's wearing body suits, and I didn't know where to look. I walked in there, and I honestly, I felt... I instantly, like, got sweaty. I was so self-conscious, and then I'm getting one-on-one sessions, and they're amazing in there.

We're going to order you a body suit. Do we think, like, with legs, or... It's like a biker outfit, right? Yeah. Oh, horrible.

Horrific. No, no, no.

No one needs that. Like a onesie biker outfit.

I've already bought little grippy socks, because that was my other thing. I had shoes on. I was like, am I mean to take off, like, my shoes, or leave my, like, socks on? What do I do?

Yeah, you need the grippies.

I need little grippy socks. Yeah. But my instructor has called my name with an A on the end, Davida. How trippy is that? So it's me and Davida.

That's so LA. It's beautiful, isn't it? Wait. Is it a woman or a man?

It's a woman. Oh, oh, oh. Yeah, I thought I was booking a man. I thought I was booking David. Right.

You had told me that. Yeah.

Well, no, specifically, when I went to book, I was so intimidated by everyone. I just wanted a guy.

Right.

And I messed up.

One thing, because we're on the topic of fashion.

Are we? Yeah. Body suits.

I'm sorry to offend, because I'm definitely going to offend right now.

No, please.

We got into this conversation yesterday, because you're going to look for a suit.

I'm looking for a suit.

And I want to help you find one.

I've never found a suit that suits me. I look at it, and I'm like, oh, horrific. And people see me in a suit at a wedding, and they laugh at me. Exactly. Because I'm wearing the wrong thing.

And you just need one that's tailored, and we figured that out. We're going to find you a good one. But when we started talking about fashion, it seems like New Zealand doesn't care as much about it. That's not a diss.

No, totally.

Culturally, they don't prioritize fashion in a way that maybe American and other European places do. And Asia.

Yeah. I think down under. Absolutely. We're a bit looser.

Yeah. Because you told me, the biggest fashion brand was Zambezi.

Zambezi's a big one.

I've just never heard of it. And then...

I wouldn't expect you to. I mean, it's so far away.

No, no, no, no, no, no. But the fashion brands in Italy, I know. So I'm just saying, it's not as fashion forward.

Well, I think...

I think you should do an episode on this.

On fashion?

Yeah.

I know. I think it'd be a great topic. New Zealand fashion is sort of charming in a lot of ways, because I think people, they're more low key. I think I'm a reflection of that. I'm a mess most of the time.

Yeah. Well, I think that's a future app.

Fashion. I like that. Yeah. I like fashion. Maybe specifically yoga and Pilates fashion.

They don't have that in New Zealand?

We're just getting it now. Oh. Yeah. Okay, great. It's just coming in.

Okay. Well, I'm so glad you're back.

I'm back, and my back is feeling great. This is what I shouldn't be doing. I'm starting to slouch in this couch. Uh-oh. I need to be up like this.

Engaging your core.

Engaging my core. That's important. I need to keep. ... If you see me slouching like that in the future, tell me, and I'm just going to keep healing and stay in America.

Awesome. Nice to be back. All right. Well, we're back.

Enjoy your cookie time.

Thank you.