Understanding the Baggage I Bring to My Relationship [VIDEO]
2023-06-11 00:37:05
The most-listened to podcast by women. Alex Cooper’s Call Her Daddy has been creating conversation since 2018. Cooper cuts through the BS with topics and guests - asking the burning questions you want the answers to. There will be laughter, there will be tears. There will be everything in between. New episodes drop on Wednesday and Sunday. Want more? Join the Daddy Gang @callherdaddy
What is up, Daddy Gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper, we call her daddy.
I love this fireplace, it makes it feel so cozy. Okay, we're cozy, we're back.
Oh, we're back.
We're full from our pizza, we're warm, it's like a little cold out there, but it's not as bad.
No, this is like, normally, Chicago's just gray and there was sunshine today.
Love that for us, love that for us. So we're both kind of on the same page right now in terms of we're in committed relationships. And I feel like you and I have both had very different experiences prior to our current relationships, of pretty toxic, tumultuous relationships. That looked different for both of us. But we were in them.
Seven years, you had seven of them.
Exactly, Lauren, hitting me with the hard facts. And I think it's important to everyone listening. Although you and I are sitting here, being like we're both in healthy relationships, while that can be true, it can also be true that our relationships aren't perfect.
And I think it's always good to explain that, because I think something on the internet I always recognize is. I think a lot of people, once they find that healthy relationship, are embarrassed or ashamed. To admit like, we still fight, I fight with Matt, we have our issues. It's not perfect, so even though you're in this year relationship that obviously is making you so happy. Can you kind of peel back the layers of like? But it's all not perfect.
It's not just like, Yay, we met and we're in love now.
The first thing that I learned was that when you're in a healthy relationship, qualities that you're still working on within yourself become very apparent very quickly. So things that I maybe would have got to eventually work on within my own therapy. I was hit in the face with them like, Oh fuck, I gotta work through this shit because I'm dumping it on him.
Can you give us an example?
Yes, I guess the way that I approached arguments, when we would get into an argument, my mind would go to I have to prove my point. And I wasn't listening to what he was saying or where he was coming from, or what was bothering him. I was trying to out-argue and out-maneuver and disprove him. And win an argument when you're in a healthy relationship, it's not about winning an argument.
It's about seeing both sides, how did we get here and why do we each feel this way and moving from that perspective?
I feel like you're so right, though. There's such a difference when you get into a relationship that you're like, I really, really want to make this work. This is like, right now, I'm going to prioritize this and I'm not going to bullshit myself. And I'm not going to also give myself free passes of. Like, well, it's their fault because at the end of the day you want it to work.
All of a sudden, when you're having issues, you have to always have. I remember Matt and I always would talk about this. No one is winning, we actually have to just find a way to get back to. How do we move on from this, how do we each feel seen from our perspective, and how do we move on in a weird way? Learning how to fight, that's a whole segment that takes a long time in a relationship to figure that out.
Are you still in that phase? Yes.
That's where it gets really deep for me because it's bringing up a lot of, I guess I love how I'm saying, I guess this is trauma.
Lauren.
It's bringing up a lot for me in my past about learning how to fight. Because my dad was very severely mentally ill, he had bipolar disorder. And he would be manic, and I would be the one who would be arguing with someone who's manic. In my mind, it was like, Well, you're crazy and I'm right, I guess. Similar to my last relationship, which is funny how they're repeating themselves. It was similar where I just pinned it as like, You're crazy, you're wrong.
I can take no fault or no accountability here.
That's so interesting, too, because I think about you got so good with your dad at also compartmentalizing.
You're wrong, I need to survive, so I'm going to be right. Then. I do think, when you got into that seven-year relationship, weirdly, it mimicked a lot of your relationship with your dad in a weird way. Also think, and that's anyone that has trauma. You're not attracted to it, but it's familiar to you and you know how to survive in that environment. Even though I remember, I used to always say to you that relationship is safe to you, that's why you're not leaving. It wasn't safe in any way.
You weren't being respected, it wasn't healthy, but to you. You knew how to do it. You knew how to have someone be going through illness or whatever, and you could easily combat that, it was second nature to you.
That was the wall that I had built so deep that if in my mind, I can justify that, I think you're being crazy, whatever crazy means. That. It doesn't cause me to feel anything, because it doesn't make sense to me, that doesn't upset me, or that doesn't bother me, or I'm not jealous about that. Or go do whatever you're going to do. I'm my own person because that is the mentality I had to have my entire life to survive.
I appreciate you sharing this on the podcast too. Because I feel like every time someone does open up in that way. The amount of DMS I also get from people being like, Okay, fuck, maybe I do need to work on myself. I had something traumatic happen to me when I was younger and I haven't worked through it, but I keep having this. I'm hitting a wall in all of my relationships and daddy gang, I hate to say it, but almost 100 of the time, it's going to be. Because you haven't resolved shit from your past, you need to unlearn the shit that you may have been. Survival mechanism, but they're so ingrained in you. I remember we were having a conversation. You with money, a trigger for you is you're in survival mode of.
I need to take care of myself. I remember you at 6 17 having to learn how to do your entire family's taxes and take it over now. I think in every relationship, you have this aversion to instability because you don't want to feel it again. You only can rely on yourself.
I don't know if I'm saying that correctly.
No, you are. I didn't realize it was such an aversion until I got in this relationship and my boyfriend was like, I'm confused. You're being very unempathetic in these situations and you're grilling me. For example, he would come home and say that he had a bad interaction with someone at work, a very normal thing.
I would start interrogating him unconsciously because my mind is going well. Is he doing bad at his job? Is he going to get fired? is he going to be on the streets? Am I going to be providing for the two of us? I didn't consciously, really realize at first.
That's where my mind was going. I was like, Well, did you do what you're supposed to do? Why is she mad at you? Are you doing enough?
It just made me realize it sounds so backwards. But until you get into a relationship with a partner that's willing to try to make it work and be a healthy balance, and you're a good fit for each other. You actually never have to acknowledge all your baggage and your demons and all the shit that we all have. That's our flaws, or what we should work on. Because when you're in toxic relationships, and even if it's not toxic, even if it's just like, they're not the one, you're not that invested, you're not that upset. If it doesn't work out, you can keep kind of moving the way you do and letting all of your past just like this is who I am. If you don't like it, get the fuck out.
Then when you meet someone like your new boyfriend, that's like, Wait, Lauren.
Hello, where did you go? This is not who I'm used to seeing what you just said. Obviously, this trigger and this fear of financial instability still existed. Because growing up, there was a time when, all of a sudden, one day, the electricity was off and we didn't know where we were going to live. It was that level and thinking back, I remember just feeling fucking scared and that innate feeling it can come back so easily.
And when it was just me being single, that was still there. But I was just overcompensating it for a way of being a super high. Achieving in my job, out of fear of, well, I can never lose a job.
And you were the only person that could disappoint yourself.
Exactly, and I was just like, I won't disappoint myself.
So then when you let someone else in that you do love. And then I think you're saying, my boyfriend's coming home with pretty rational, normal things happening and your triggers. And had it been maybe your last relationship, you would have gone off on him and not actually hurt his side because it wasn't the right relationship. It wasn't going to be a healthy situation, you knew, in the long run, now it's encouraging, but it's also scary to think that it's okay. If you're sitting at home, daddy gang, and you maybe haven't found that clicking, healthy relationship yet, because that means you're probably not ready for it yet. I look back at my past and the partners that I chose were so fucked up of. So much chaos and drama. And just everything was high stakes and high strung, and it was so much back and forth.
And it was just because I wasn't ready to actually look inward of my personal insecurities. And I always held myself to be like, I don't need you. I can leave at any second when really, I was in love and hurt, but I could never show my emotions. And I think that goes back to the whole bullying thing of just wanting people to like me. So when I would get the prize, when I would get the guy. I then also didn't want to get rejected because that's how I felt in my childhood, all the time rejected by guys. And so I was like, so insecure that my defense mechanism was being like, I don't really give a fuck. And then I'd go home and cry alone after breaking up with someone, because I thought they were going to break up with me.
And it was like I was constantly running from the fact that I was like, I have feelings. I do have insecurities and I need to find a partner that makes me feel safe. That we can have conversations when those insecurities are coming up and when I don't feel good enough.
The conversation when this is going down, my boyfriend wasn't like, Lauren, what the fuck?
What's wrong with you?
Yeah, it was like, let's take a pause, something feels off here. Are you? okay? What's this bringing up for you?
I just feel like we're both getting to a place and I think everyone will have that moment. I didn't really envision what it would feel like. Until you're in it, where weirdly healthy relationships take so much fucking work, if not more than your past flings or situationships or toxic situations. Because you're able to, just you're only giving yourself and you're not actually having to. I don't know, I'm not saying for every relationship, but most of my situations were like, I wasn't really compromising, I wasn't really right.
Oh my gosh, don't get me started on compromise. I was not good at compromising.
And now you're finding yourself being like, Fuck two people, I don't give a fuck. If it's romantic, if you're in a job, if you're in a friendship. If you actually want two human beings to work in a situation, you have to do a given pull. And that I think is the beginning of a healthy relationship is finding that balance, and it's fucking hard at first.
What's a compromise you recently made in your relationship?
I'm really good at communication in terms of like.
In the emotional moments of like, connecting with my partner. But in the day-to-day, I think that I can be very individually focused. That I had to start with my partner. And then, like, start thinking about Matt of, like, every fucking day, Matt goes downstairs, he gets me coffee, he brings it up, he asks me what I need. That day, he'll go to work, he'll text me cute things. And like, we may have different love languages, that's not it. It's like I feel like I was not really giving him the like mutual respect of like, hey, like you're my partner. Like I can communicate, not just when it's hard, like I feel like I'm like, so good in moments, like even with friendships.
I feel like when someone's going through shit, I'm like, talk to me, like, I'm in it. But in the day-to-day, I realize I need to compromise on, like being selfish, of like, I'm an individual. I love my job, I'm in it. I never would like he would just be like, sometimes you could just like, send me a text, like when you're coming home.
Like, it doesn't have to only be like the morning and the end of the day, like life can exist in between.
Yes, my therapist always says that to me, like, I'm very. I'm working on it a lot and I don't know how to explain it. Kind of, it's like, I'm very, like, it's all or nothing. So I've had to, like. Work on communicating better to him and having respect for his time and his schedule and like, what he's up to. I never don't know where Matt is.
Like, he's so just good at communicating in that way. And I feel like sometimes I then become unloving of, like, I'm a little cold in those moments where he's like, hello, like.
Is that something like, did he? how did he bring up this conversation to you? Like, did he express it as like, I need a little bit more from you, like, you're making me feel, yes?
Matt What like is so his mom is a therapist, so he's been in therapy. That was like, the one thing I was like, Oh yes, like, he's very in tune with his emotions, he's very emotional. And he was like, I just want you to understand. Like it doesn't feel great to me that. I feel like I'm always trying to take care of you and be there for you. And like, there's just times where I feel like you're not. It takes like two seconds to send me a text to, like, check in. And just like, even when I'm on a trip, I used to, like, go to bed and like, sometimes I wouldn't even text him.
But it was just because I wasn't thinking about it. And it's like, be more thoughtful, like because he's in bed, like, wondering, like, I hope she's safe. And those were things that I was like, why do you need to know? I feel like I was like moving through my life, so focused on my independence and so like I can survive alone. That, like letting in a partner, was like, really difficult for me to like, aside from like logistical shit, like being more thoughtful to the other person's feelings.
I can be laser focused on something, but then, like, yeah, it's a deficit of mine to, like, I look around and I'm like, oh, like, I haven't, like, texted anyone today. Like, I was literally working on the podcast for 12 hours and I'm like, that's great for the podcast, but then I have, like, my personal.
Life still exists outside of the podcast.
And that's what Matt used to say to me. He's like, life is going on and you're literally in your editing bubble over there. And I think, yeah, I think that's something that I've worked on is like, there's a lot that goes into this job that is very like, there's a lot of pressure. It feels very isolating at times. And so I sometimes just kind of like, close off and I'm like, I can't have distractions. I need to get it done.
And I think I've just been that way through a lot of things in life. But I do. I have talked about it to my therapist of. Like, I think that there's a lot that goes back to, like, being so insecure and getting bullied. When I was younger, I would go into my room, close my door and not let anyone know that I was like, in pain. So I have a lot of that that I'm still working through of, like, it's okay to, like, cry in front of Matt and tell him.
Oh, I'm the exact same way like I literally. I think I said this on like another episode. When I first started therapy, my therapist made me print out an emotion wheel so that I could, like, she'd be like, you're telling me how you're feeling.
With like logic, like, say, an emotion I'd be like.
She's like, look down at your chart, pick an emotion and like, I think that you with your bullying, and like, wanting to handle that alone. And me growing up with, like such instability in my home, and like being the parent of my home, and like the oldest child. And like, feeling like I was like keeping everyone like the one, like keeping everyone up, and like, I didn't have anyone I could go to for help, like I had this, like distrust of, like if I ask for help, like it's not, no one's going to help me. So, like, any problem is like on me, which is like, both of us have these like individual like things get bad. I turn inward when you're in a relationship that makes someone feel like, hello.
Do you even like?
Yeah, like, what? like, I'm over here, yeah.
I know so many people are probably going to listen to this and the difference of how we, where we're coming from. And yet there's such similar themes of how we, like, act in relationships. I think, I'm sure so many people are like, I am this way too. And I think, I mean, then we both have friends on the other side of the spectrum that are like heavily emotional. And that also is like, totally fine.
We're like, I feel like we're more like these Ice Queens that we've been like, why are we not like Lovey and sweet?
Like, I'll fight like not like, fight like I'll be in a disagreement with my boyfriend. And he's like, Lauren, like you're being silent, like you're not saying anything. In my mind, I'm like trying to, like, force myself to be like, say something, and like, feel something, and I'm like, I'm working.
It's about to come out, give me a second. It's like the grinch, it's a little grinch.
So, like, you're ahead of me, I think a little bit in this process. You've been in a relationship longer, in moments where you and Matt are in disagreement. Or you're not seeing eye to eye. And you're feeling like Ice Queen, come on, like, I just want to walk out the room, or like, I just want to ice you out, like, What do you do now in those moments?
Okay, so it's so funny because Matt and I were talking about this the other day. The only time I would say in the past year that Matt and I get in fights is when we drink, and I usually instigate the fights. And I don't know what like.
Are they like a similar theme or just all over the place?
Like, something will happen. And I'm like, and it's not every time we get drunk. But the only time throughout the past year I can think of like four fights, and it was when we were intoxicated. And so now Matt and I have basically created a rule.
And like, when we're sober, I'm like, the rule is so good. I love the rule. It's such a good boundary. When I'm drunk, what's the rule?
So the rule is that if we're fucked up, we go to bed. We do not try to have a fight while we're drunk, and I don't care if we're like, only tips or whatever, we're not thinking clearly. And so when I'm drunk, though, I'm like, wake up.
Like, I'm like, talk to me, because then I'm like, you can't just go to sleep, and so I'll be like trying to talk to him. And he now knows Alex. We've talked about this. And every time I wake up in the morning because he literally will roll over and he'll just go to sleep.
And in the morning I'll be like, Mother fucker, and then I'm like, Okay, good night, and then I like, pass out because I'm drunk, and then in the morning every single time. I'm so relieved that we stopped it there because prior to that, the year before, we would go at it when we were drunk.
And we would just spiral and we're like, what are we even talking about now? And so now, Matt is so good at, like, upholding that rule. Because then in the morning he's like, I feel so fortunate. He's like the most loving person I've ever met in my life.
He'll come to me, even if he was the one that kind of, like, instigated it. He'll kiss me on the forehead, wake me up and be like, Good morning, I love you. Let's talk about what happened. And then we have this rational conversation of, like, Yeah, I don't know why I was doing that.
So it's like having, I think, when you're fighting, there's an endless route that each of you can see where you want it to go. Especially when there's alcohol involved, It's never fucking smart to fight. when you're drunk, it's never going to work out.
That is the worst feeling when you're like, Wait, what are we even fighting about anymore? But now I'm just like, fucking pissed at you and like, I just want to keep going.
Yes, and that's where I think again, like trying to create. And when I say I'm in a healthy relationship, it's not like forever. Now, it takes every fucking day, you have to make an effort to feel like it's healthy.
And again, it doesn't mean it's perfect. It just means I now have the ability to, like, know that, no matter what, Matt is always trying to work shit out with me. Because we love each other and we want the end goal to be, let's get back to being good. And so, and our interest is not in just our individual selves anymore. It's like, this is a partnership, like, Did I hurt you in any way?
Did you hurt, like, let's talk? And I just think there's like, it takes a time, though. Like past relationships, I would be like, fuck you, like, I'm drunk, like, go fuck yourself.
Like, talk to me, and if you go to bed right now, I'm leaving. Like, you're just like, there's just immaturity there. Yeah, you don't see the end goal correctly.
Like, that made me think of, like, that's stupid, that you're sad, like I don't get why, you're sad, like, why are you feeling that way? Like the other day? My therapist was like, Lauren, emotions are not logical, but that doesn't mean that someone's not feeling them.
You can't disprove someone's emotions because you don't like that they're feeling them. And I was like, Oh.
That must have, like, hit you so hard, you're like, don't tell me that, Yeah, don't tell me that. So now, do you find yourself being able to, like, be more loving towards your boyfriend when he is coming to you with an emotion?
I'm legitimately currently working on it still okay, because this is like, deeply rooted in me, yeah.
I think another part that if you grew up in like a chaotic household. My dad was very verbally loud and aggressive when he was going through things and towards my mom.
And I. There are instances where, like, since he was like the breadwinner of the family and like through his illness, like, very, very bright. I would identify with him and when he would tell my mom, like, shut up, like, stop crying and so like, I learned to identify that. Like emotions are like feeling sad and sorry for yourself, or like, stupid and they're not going to get you anywhere, and like, pick yourself up and like, keep going.
So, like, I have that reaction towards other people. Like, even something happened with a friend the other day. And I was telling my therapist. And she's like, Where is the empathy? And I'm like, Yeah, you're right. But I think, like my advice for Daddy Gang, you can always take accountability for something.
Always, in every type of disagreement, you can own something. And, like, once you make that first like concession, it opens up the conversation for, like, a much more vulnerable dynamic. And what I learned is saying, I'm sorry, but is not an apology, because I would say, well, I'm sorry, you're feeling that way.
But like, I don't really see why you are, because I actually didn't do that, and like, I did do this instead. And I didn't mean to make you feel that way, so like, I get that you're feeling that way, and I guess you're feeling sad.
But like, I don't really know what you want me to say, because that doesn't make sense to me, okay?
And this is a perfect example. I'm like Lauren, this is a perfect example of. If you were not in a relationship with someone that you actually loved. And was a healthy dynamic of him being like, Lauren. Like, you're being mean, yes.
I think that's like we were talking about that me and you the other day, where, like, it sounds stupid. But I think there's power in any type of argument, whether it's a partner, a friend, a family member. Instead of, like, trying to disprove what they're saying or tell them not to say it, like, just saying like, that hurt my feelings. What is someone going to say to that?
So true, we were talking about that in the car, we were like, there's just moments where if you don't know what to say. And you're trying to express yourself to your partner again, this is all predicated on if your partner is also like, respects you.
Respects you.
Like, if someone's like, that hurt.
Right, if I said that hurt my feelings.
And I was like, Well, that's fucking stupid.
Right, then you're in the wrong relationship. But I feel like if you had said that to your past boyfriend, he would have probably said something similar to that. And same with me to my exes.
And I said to my current partner that hurt my feelings. And he was like, Oh my gosh, Lauren, like, and just like, hugged me and you're like, Oh my God.
This is what it feels like to be allowed to feel feelings.
I was going to say, though, but then Lauren, next time he said that you need to get up and hug him.
No, that's another thing I learned. So, like, when I'm struggling to have feelings and emotions, I have to be like, it's like a body thing. Like, I have to like, reset, like my like, nervous system. Because like, something is triggering me where I'm like, entering this like fight or flight mode.
And like, I don't have like rationality.
And like, we literally like hug and like it like, takes my like arousal state down. And I can start to be like, okay, like, now my thoughts aren't kind of like spiraling into like, he's going to lose his job and be homeless. Now. I can be like, okay, like, let me listen as like a rational person now.
As much as you may want to be like, get away from me in the middle of a fight, it like, physically does something for you to, like, be like, let's pause and like, hug each other.
You have such, and I know it's going to always be an ongoing process for you of, like, unpacking, understanding. But if someone is sitting here relating to you in terms of having a-.
A fucked up childhood.
Where's the alcohol if someone is sitting here? That has, whether it was like an abusive parent or a mentally ill parent. Do you have any high level advice of, like, where to begin repairing your individual sense of self that was so hurt and affected by that parental figure?
Whoa?
I think it's less my sense of like for me to speak on, like repairing is less my sense of self and more. These like learned reactions and like unconscious, like states that I go into and being able to recognize when I'm in those. And I think that's what we've been talking about this whole time. Of like, me reacting and like, wanting to, like, disprove them or win an argument, or me reacting and wanting to literally run away. Like when we initially started fighting, when we were first dating. I'd be like, I'm leaving, and he'd be like, you're leaving, and I'd be like, I'm out.
Like, I'm leaving, I want to go home and like, why did I? Like? I think it's understanding, like your reactions and these states that you get into, and then like, working backwards from there, and it's a lot of work. Like the other day, I was telling my therapist, I was like, Fuck, like, this is a lot.
Like, am I going to be like, dealing with this shit forever? And she was like, I'm so sorry, but probably.
Oh my God, that makes me want to cry, Lauren.
But I mean, I think there's like a sense of empowerment in it. When it's like, I've, like, I have. Like, when you're aware to the most degree, you're more in control of it and like, I think it's. I take pride in, like, how much work that I like put into myself and, like, my relationship. Are you crying?
No, I just like, think a little, keep going, sorry, I just love you and I'm so proud of you.
And I feel like I've seen like, I remember the day that you were getting into therapy because you were like, really going through it. And I remember like, you realizing you're like, I think I've been like, dissociating from my emotions, and then you, like, almost spiraled because you're like. I don't know how long, like, how many years have I been like, not connecting? And I remember like, I think it was. I think it's always been like, strange.
And I just feel so like fortunate that you have been so like watching you get into therapy and be so invested in. Like, fuck this, like, I'm not going to allow what he was doing to like, fuck up my whole life. Yeah, but like you said, it takes so much because you have to relive it first.
Yeah.
You have to relive, like the trauma in order to be like, Okay, the trauma goes here, it never leaves you. Losing a parent that's taking their own life to mental illness is like, there's like all those feelings like, I think we've kind of talked about of, like anger and like, also like feeling like weirdly relieved. That comes with guilt of, like all the things.
Watching you, it just makes me so proud of you. Because it's like, you're doing all the fucking work in your 20s right now. And you're going to be able to have like a healthy life. Because you're putting in the absolute shit work, which most people don't fucking start to later.
I was just going to say, like, I mean, like, I would never know this, obviously, but like, unless I had that one really tangible thing, I was like, it was like, I mean, like, I should probably go to therapy because this happened to me, like it feels like something I should like, maybe do. I don't think I would have like, actually gotten in therapy if like, I didn't have that one. Like, very, like, concrete thing that happened and like. I definitely just feel like I live my life as like a better person, like, not better as like I don't do bad things, but better as just like aware of what I'm doing, at least.
Yeah, and I feel like it's also important to say like, I feel like we're all so funny. Because, like to every single person in our friend group. We're like, you have to get into therapy, like it'll change your life, like, I don't care. Even if maybe you don't have a specific isolated like. If you're like, sitting at home and you're like, I don't think I have trauma. Like, it's so interesting, then have it be like a fun experiment.
If you're able to, like, put yourself in a situation of finding a way to get into some type of therapy. Obviously, I know like there's different, like accessible versions and everything. But like, you all of a sudden start to unravel and you're like, Oh wait, that's why no one's fucking upbringing was perfect. I don't care if your parents are perfect.
What was your sibling dynamic? what was your relationship to your cousins, your neighbors?
It can be so like miniscule, it's like there are moments where it feels. Felt like my parents favored my brother over me, or like my parents were really busy and like, were both doctors and they didn't get to come to my sports games. Like that type of stuff, like it doesn't have to be like my parent died, like that type of stuff can like.
Deeply affect you, yeah, and then significantly affect you. And not only the way that you speak to yourself, feel about yourself. But fucking so affects you when you then have to get into a relationship with someone else.
Where those things actually are, like, triggered and exacerbated when you start to, like, engage with someone that pokes these places that you're not even aware.
I didn't know we were going to be preaching therapy today me either. But you know, that's like our bread and butter, that's where our heart and soul lives. And like, even like, I know you probably have these interactions on like the Daily.
But mine are more far and few between. But last summer, I was at a restaurant eating. And the waitress came up to me at the end and was like, I literally want to tell you you're the reason that I'm in therapy and like, Oh, like.
Damn.
Yeah.
Because she heard the episode.
Yeah, one of them, one of them, one of them that we were preaching therapy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. And I think it's like, I always want to be careful, because it's like, if they're in a beautiful way. Therapy is completely getting way more normalized now. But it's a privilege, and it's also a very individual decision that takes a lot to even just email or make the call. Because it's like the beginning of opening up Pandora's box. And like, what I will say is like, I really, really encourage, if you're able to find whatever within your means, you're able to do, do it.
So I think what would also be helpful is, at the end of this episode, I'm going to add a clip of us talking about how to find a therapist, how to find resources.
And you can go to the end of the episode if you want to listen to that.
Do you want to pour a drink now? I know?
I'm like, fuck.
Woo.
Can you give us kind of like that two-minute spiel that you were saying of, like, how to begin finding someone?
So there's different levels of professionals that you can seek. Your psychologist has a PSYD, mine has a P.h.D. Both are doctorate-level clinicians. Typically more expensive, most likely may not accept insurance and will be out of network. You could see a social worker, a clinical social worker, or a licensed mental health counselor.
And if you have insurance, I advise you to call your insurance company and ask what are my in-network mental health benefits and what are my out-of-network mental health benefits? And you'll figure out what insurance will contribute, or if you don't have insurance. I know that there's certain organizations that you can connect with, I just, I don't know off the top of my head that can help.
Set up like they have, like a therapy fund for people who can't afford it. And honestly, like, it's kind of like a crapshoot. There's some really shitty therapists out there and the best, best, best way is word of mouth.
I agree, I feel like, I mean, that's how we both found our therapists is from word of mouth, I think the minute. First of all, what's so great is if you ever hear anyone in your orbit talking about therapy, there's no shame. And then you go into them being like, Hey, I know you mentioned your therapist, like I obviously would love. Even if they can provide the therapist's email and you can send an email to that person.
If you don't want to call, it's fine, but if you provide an email, they will get back to you. Most of the time, yeah.
I mean, I'm not going to say all, it's unethical. Typically, if they don't, yes.
So I agree a lot of it is based off of word of mouth. Because again, if you're not in the area, then they'll be like, Oh, I know three friends of mine that I went to my doctorate program with, and now they are in Chicago or wherever, or they have licenses there.
And then they can provide you that information. But I agree, I feel like in a beautiful way. Now so many people are getting in therapy that when you are able to find someone that is in therapy, that is actually like the first beginning of the journey to finding that therapist. Because if that person likes their therapist, then that person is probably qualified. And is then going to have a network of therapists throughout the country that they're able then to spot you wherever you are at.
And you might have to call ten people before you find one, I called seven.
It is a lot of work, but again, as we talked about in this episode, it's so fucking worth it. So if you feel like you're ready, dive on in, dive on in.
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