MYSTERIOUS DEATH OF: Molly Young

Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.

And I'm Britt.

And the story I have for you today is about a talented young woman whose tragic death has been shrouded in mystery and controversy for more than a decade. This is the story of Molly Young.

And he's saying that she died by an overdose and bled out through her nose?

Okay, so he was saying that, like on the first call. And they hang up, whatever, they're sending ambulances. But then, just minutes later, at around 9-10, Richie calls again, this time on a non-emergency line, directly to Amber. I have enough, please. Hey, Amber?

I guess I'm confused. How did he not see the gunshot wound to her head the first time he called?

I don't know. That's the first of many questions you're going to have. Now, when police get to the apartment, he's in the living room. He's wearing pajama pants, and he doesn't have a shirt on. According to police reports, he seems distraught as he starts telling a sergeant about how Molly came over because he had drank too much and threw up on himself the night before.

So she shot herself in the bedroom where he was sleeping, and he didn't wake up?

So I guess it was he saying that it was because he was so drunk.

But you'd think a gunshot just a few feet away from you, that would wake you up.

Well, he says it didn't.

And again, he didn't notice the gaping wound in her head when he called the first time?

Honestly, I don't know when or if he ever says anything about recognizing that as a gunshot wound. Like, he never talks about the wound. What his story is is that, basically, after 911 was called the first time, he moved Molly around to try and give her CPR, and that's when he spotted the gun, and that's when he kind of put it all together.

Okay, is he still drunk? I mean, none of this makes sense.

I know. I don't know.

What about that, Wes dude, the roommate? What's he saying?

Well, not much yet, but police are planning to clear the scene and bring both of them to the station for questioning. But get this, Richie wants to get dressed first, and when he asks the sergeant, Dude's basically like, yeah, go ahead. So Richie just picks up some shorts from the kitchen floor, ducks into the bathroom, and changes.

I mean, I have a question as to why the shorts were in the kitchen, but also, are we just saying basic crime scene protocol now?

Right? Like, I don't know why they're letting him change his clothes and go into a room by him.

Or like, not supervising him? I know. I mean, is it like a professional courtesy? I mean, he does work, I guess, closely with the police department.

There is no explanation in any of the records that our reporter Nina got through FOIA, or even the one she got from Molly's dad, Larry Young, as to why they let him do this. But you might be onto something with that, because Carbondale PD realizes that there is a conflict of interest at some point, and that's gonna be an issue. So they call Illinois State Police to take over the case. But, for now, Carbondale PD's still got their hands in the pie, so to say. They kind of have to babysit Richie until the state police investigators arrive and they can help out with some of their early tasks.

Right, everything's kind of just paused, for now. Right.

And they're letting him, like, in rooms by himself, to do whatever and change his clothes.

Uh, yeah.

Now, down at the station, an officer stays with Richie as he calls his dad and tells him what happened. And for the most part, his story stays the same. But he does elaborate on something. He says that at some point after he conked out last night, Molly must have taken his gun out of the safe, that he keeps it in, which he says she has the combination to. Then he asks his dad to contact their family attorney.

Sure. So this was sent from a state police investigator to a bunch of others at 10.16 a.m. It says, quote, the victim is the girlfriend of a Carbondale PD dispatcher. The death of the victim was initially believed to be a suicide. However, when questioned, the dispatcher suspiciously lawyered up.

You mean him getting a lawyer?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a crime junkie. life rule. Always get a lawyer.

Yeah, he's being held by the police. That's the next logical step.

But that's probably not the only reason that they're questioning Richie's story. So they're looking at the whole picture. Supposedly sleeping through the gunshot, lawyering up right away. I mean, again, I didn't send this email, but they're thinking something, right? It's being investigated as a homicide.

Seeing, like, hanging out? Or seeing each other, like, romantically?

I mean, there was definitely still an emotional component to their relationship. I don't know if there was anything physical at the time, though. But last night was one of those, like, emotional support nights, or whatever. Like, that's why she came over. And she did have to come over because they didn't start the night out together.

happen. Had she ever expressed thoughts of suicide before?

Well, according to Richie, at least, yes, she had. So they're going back and forth in these texts leading up to when Richie came home drunk and started calling her. Once he started doing that, she ends up coming over, and he passed out, and when he woke up... I mean, you know where the story started. But that's about all the information police get, because Richie's lawyer and parents show up soon after he says all of this.

Did he hear anything that morning, though?

Well, at the time police think Molly was shot, which is around 4.45 or so, Wes actually wasn't there at the house. He works overnights as a baker, and he didn't get home until like 5.45 that morning. And when he got there, he says he saw what he assumed were Molly's shoes and purse in the living room, but no Molly, and even when he passed by Richie's open door and glanced in, he just saw Richie asleep in bed alone. But she must have been there by then, because he tells police that when he plugged in his phone, which had died during his shift, he got a few texts from her, like all at once. He sees that the first one was sent at 3.54 a.m., and Molly told Wes that she was at their apartment taking care of Richie because he called her for help.

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Britt, can you read the last text that Wes got from Molly's phone?

Yeah, it says, quote, he was texting Crystal saying he needed her and asking her to sleep with him. I think I'm going to shoot myself in the head. I'm really, really sorry if you come home to that. End, quote. Uh, I feel like Wes kinda glossed over all that, right?

Yeah, he says he doesn't remember her saying that. I mean, if you remember, he told police.

Like dramatic.

Yeah, that he might come home to something really dramatic, something like that, right?

Which sounds kind of like if we're in a fight, I'm sorry if you're like walking into that. I feel like this text would be super relevant to mention.

Especially knowing now how she died. And I don't know, maybe when he like initially read it, it didn't really register. I mean, if he's reading this while at the apartment, the apartment is quiet, roommate's sleeping. I mean, the last thing on your mind would be that that actually happened.

I guess. Do police have Richie's phone?

Well, they do. But here's the weird part, kind of along the lines of like changing your clothes. He had it with him at the station for at least a half hour before they took it from him.

Awesome. And just to triangulate everybody, what about Molly's phone?

So that's still back at the apartment. What's weird, too, is Richie actually called Amber, that 911 dispatcher, while he was at the station, and he asked her to have someone get Molly's cell phone from his apartment, presumably to bring it to him, so that he could get her family's numbers, he says, and contact them, because at that point they didn't know what had happened. And Amber passed this message along to cops, but thank God, the cops at the apartment were like, yeah, this is a crime scene, so no.

So you're not getting the victim's cell phone, prime person of interest? Yeah. That's what they're asking, though.

Right. But Richie was right about one thing. Molly's family doesn't know what has happened yet, because police haven't notified them. It's actually not until early afternoon that troopers go to her grandma's house, where Molly had been living with her grandma and her mom. That's when they break the news to them both.

So what are they thinking right away? I mean, do they think suicide is possible?

I mean, they don't know what to think about anything yet. They know she had some struggles. Molly was artistic and creative and talented, but she had experienced bouts of depression since she was younger. Her grandfather died by suicide back in 2006 after being diagnosed with terminal cancer, and then actually, Molly had a cancer scare of her own in 2010.. She had this mass removed from her neck, which turned out to be benign, but the whole ordeal took a toll on her both physically and mentally.

GSR testing? I know it's not super reliable, but it's something.

Yeah, I mean, unreliable is like a key term here. Gunshot residue testing isn't the be-all end-all. A lot of agencies don't even bother with it anymore. But this case, at least in this one, they try. They test Molly, Richie, even Wes.

And, like you said, they check Molly's, right?

They do. And unreliable or not, this forensic scientist tells investigators that if Molly shot the gun, there should be at least some residue on her hands. But there's only residue on her right sweatshirt sleeve.

That's it? No residue on anything else?

Well, not on her hands, but it is like about everywhere else in the room. Like they end up finding some residue on parts of Richie's pajama pants and the shorts and shirt that he wore to the police station too.

Just not his hands?

No, right.

But note, stuff, his hands had touched, right?

Yes, right. Like even the new shorts that he pulled from the kitchen and put on. And let me tell you about when they collected those clothes to test, because something interesting happened to them too. So they take Richie to the locker room because he's got some spare stuff in there. Because again, he works here.

Those seem really fresh. Right? They're like long and right on his back.

Wait, okay, hang on. So if you're in the app, you're seeing the picture. But for those of the listeners who aren't in the Crime Junkie app. Oh, yeah. What is it you're looking at?

So I'm looking at these two long, again, super fresh looking scratches on Richie's back, kind of near his armpit.

Police determine they're like six inches long.

Holy cow. And how the hell does he explain them?

Okay, the explanation is so bizarre. There isn't a world where you can actually guess it. But I want you to try. What do you think his explanation is for how he has these two fresh scratches on him at the police station after his girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, has died in his bedroom?

Um, he like, fell on a nightstand. I don't know. I honestly don't even know. I have no idea where to start with this.

He says that he got these scratches while he was giving Molly CPR.

I'm sorry, what?

Mm. hmm.

How? That doesn't make sense.

And by the time he wakes up, Molly is deceased. Like, I just want to make that clear.

Right. Again, like, I feel kind of vindicated in that the nightstand is the only thing that could have done it at this point.

You could say a lot of things that make a lot more sense than what he said, but that was his excuse. Now, I can't bring up Richie's scratches and not tell you that Wes had scratches too. And here, I'll send you a picture of those.

These are weirdly kind of similar.

I know. So it's like, again, two scratches, like side by side, kind of like similar size length. But Wes's are in the middle of his back, more like in a diagonal direction, like than Richie's, which are to me like horizontal.

Mm, hmm. And Wes's look older scratches, like they've kind of been healing, a bit scabbed over.

Yeah, not like as pink and raw. And when he gives an explanation, he says that his job as a baker is fairly physical. So he thinks that he must have gotten his scratches somewhere at work.

OK, I don't work as a baker, but I do bake a lot. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. Calling all bakers. We have some questions.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, again, like you, you back up into something. Truthfully, I've gotten scratches worse than both these guys. And I'm a podcaster. I've nicked myself at work with my kid, getting too rowdy with Chuck.

Right. There's like too many things that are describing and connected to these scratches to make it make sense.

And not to give this guy any ideas, but I mean, dude, you were out last night, supposedly blackout drunk. So saying, I don't know, I got them while I was drunk is actually a way more believable story than while you were giving your deceased ex-girlfriend CPR.

I mean, was he that drunk, though? Is that something they ever even tested for while they had him in custody?

Fine, we'll go back to the story and not talk about all these weird things.

I could spiral for hours, but this is not what we're here for.

So they do kind of test his blood alcohol level, but in actuality, kind of not. Basically, one of the paramedics told investigators that she didn't smell any alcohol on Richie. But by the time paramedics were at their house, that was hours after he'd stopped drinking. And then by the time they were legally able to check his blood alcohol content, it was Saturday night. So yes, they checked it, but the results were totally useless.

So she was moved?

Yes, by Richie. He admitted to moving her when he said he was doing CPR. Beside that, though, there's not much blood in the room, just a little on the comforter and the muzzle of the gun. And there's a casing by the bedroom door. Now, Richie's gun safe is still there in the room, too.

So, like, there's stuff that would have needed to be moved for the safe to open, and it's all kind of still there.

Yeah, we actually have, again, if you're in the app, you can see the picture right now. Otherwise, you can go to our blog post. We have a picture of this, and there is. There's stuff all over it that you wouldn't imagine. you would take it out and then, like, reposition everything.

Right, right. So something's off, but not really off enough for police to be like, yes, this is exactly what happened.

Exactly. And unfortunately, when they do an autopsy on Molly, it's kind of the same thing. The pathologist determines that her injury is a contact wound, which is kind of expected, but there's no blood on her hands, which I guess usually you see that when a gunshot is fired at close range, especially a self-inflicted one. There's usually some blood spatter on the person's hand from the recoil. And even stranger is the fact that the pathologist determines the bullet entered two inches above her ear, angling slightly downward.

Well, and it doesn't make sense that she'd be holding it in her right hand across her body, over her head. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. And again, not impossible probably, but again, statistically doesn't seem likely.

Right.

And either way, there's no residue, right, or cast-off, or whatever, the blood spatter we expect to see on either hand. But despite all the lingering questions, the pathologist summarizes his findings like this, quote, The investigation conducted by the agencies involved indicated self-inflicted wounds. The manner of death is classifiable as suicide. Wow. End quote.

I was at least expecting, like an undetermined.

I kind of was too. But I guess something had changed for investigators when they searched Molly's room the day before this autopsy.

So that note you mentioned, was that written the night before her death, too?

Well, so this is the thing that doesn't totally work. Like, the note wasn't laid out for her family to find. It was under a jumble of stuff and there's no date on it. Her dad eventually hears from one of her friends that he'd seen that very note months ago. So her family kind of wonders if that wasn't, like, this goodbye note because she planned to do something that night.

Truly, what are the odds?

Struck by lightning, I am so serious. So they have to piece the night together as best they can. without that. They learn that once the bar closed at around 2 on Saturday morning, Richie and his friends all went back to a friend's place, and Richie actually drove there. But once he was inside, it became clear that he was pretty intoxicated.

So it does sound like he was pretty drunk. Yeah. I feel like the best indicator of this would be his text messages. We know what he said, but, like, how did he text them? What was the typing?

What do you mean?

You know. like you know, you're getting a drunk message from someone?

Oh, like misspellings or like it doesn't like, doesn't even make sense when they're that drunk.

Yeah, just like hot mess texts. Were his messages in drunk person type, I guess?

Well, so there's this one. So 328 a.m. He texts, Molly quote H E space P, which is end quote. So presumably that's help. But, and to your point, maybe in like drunk person text.

Or honestly, I love you so much. Ashley. text. That's a really easy.

I'm the exception. Like all my texts are drunk. people text. But well, here's what's weird. Okay, so we have this one from 328..

But they have his phone.

Yeah. The problem is, when they go to look at it, virtually everything seems to have been deleted.

By him?

That's the assumption. But since police don't get to interview him at all after that first day, I don't know what his story is about, why there's nothing on his phone.

Okay, is it like everything, everything? Just everything about Molly with Molly, or like all the stuff on his phone?

From what Larry, Molly's dad, told us, Larry says all of it, everything's deleted off his phone.

If Molly genuinely sent that text, it has to mean that she saw the text between Richie and Crystal on his phone. And they were erased after that.

If she sent it, yes. But here's kind of a theory that her loved ones have. They don't think that she did send that text. To them, it all seems too on the nose. That text to Wes saying, I saw this message.

Questionable.

Yeah, like Larry checks Richie's Tumblr page and he sees that weeks before Molly's death, actually, the day she found out she was pregnant, Richie reposted a quote from the infamous Son of Sam, serial killer. Britt, can you read that part I highlighted on the police report?

Yeah, it says, quote, and huge drops of lead poured down upon her head until she was dead, end quote. What the f***?

Yeah, I don't know why he was reposting that, but it's chilling to Molly's family, especially considering how she died. Now, the more time that passes, the more convinced Molly's family becomes that Richie orchestrated the whole thing. And they worry that investigators will either be swayed by his version or even protect him. since Richie is one of them. I mean, he may not be a cop himself, but he does work with them as a dispatcher and his father's in law enforcement too.

Do we know any of the specifics on the DNA? Like, was it blood or just skin cells?

No, all I know is that her fingernails were, like, intact. So no visible injuries, no blood on her hands, stuff like that.

No sign of a fight or a struggle?

No, not on her hands.

I mean, there are other ways she could have gotten his DNA under her nails. If scratching, fighting is, like, the key way to get DNA under nails, shouldn't they be trying to identify who the other two male samples are?

I mean, they probably should be. I don't know if they are. But to your point, yeah, I mean, there are tons of other ways his DNA, or these other two men's DNA, could have gotten under her nails. And I don't even know how much DNA we're talking about. Like, I've heard in so many different cases that, again, like, touching someone, like, even just transfer.

So, when police are sharing all these results with the family, are they telling them that they're in line with the pathologist? Or are they saying they don't know? What's the tone here?

I'm not sure if they share any thoughts on homicide versus suicide. But behind the scenes, the lead investigator on the case, this state police special agent named Aaron Cooper, he thinks that, based on the bullet's trajectory, Richie was either standing over Molly when she was shot or standing on his bed. Which, to me, implies that he thinks Richie fired the shot. But 2012 still ends in a question mark. No one's been charged.

And that's happening in his bedroom while he's there.

So going back to the inquest, after 45 minutes of deliberation, the jury makes its call. Or should I say, no call. The manner of death is undetermined due to lack of evidence.

Well, wasn't Agent Cooper the one who had the theory about Richie, like, standing on the bed, like, for the trajectory?

Yeah, so he was, but that doesn't come up at the inquest. And the thing is, I don't even know if the family knew about his theory at the time. Because it's not until after this inquest, like, when they're feeling so frustrated, they feel like it was slanted. That's when Larry does this big FOIA request. And everything he gets is, like, heavily redacted, which I know our reporters can definitely sympathize with.

Yeah, she was the one who got the call. Then Richie, like, called her back directly with the update about the gun.

Yeah, right. So if you remember the call, Amber had tried to contact him that morning because he hadn't shown up for work, right? Like, before she knew anything happened. Well, Larry gets his hands on a statement that she made to police later that same day, explaining all of the calls and texts that were going back and forth. But, and keep in mind, this is still the same day Molly died.

What? Why?

She says that she didn't know she would have to write a statement.

Okay, does she just delete all her texts every day or something?

I don't know, but Larry thinks it's strange.

Same.

In fact, he asked Jackson County State's attorney, Michael Carr, if it could be considered obstruction of justice. But apparently that doesn't sit well with Carr, because Larry says that he threatens to shut down the case if he keeps pushing. That's on July 1st. And then a couple of weeks later, in response to a new FOIA that Larry submitted, Larry gets a letter from state police saying exactly that. Basically, it's being shut down, the case is closed.

Sounds like backpedaling, okay.

But at the same time, he says that he's also not going to be filing any criminal charges, that he's thoroughly reviewed the case, and even though there are lingering questions, there's just not enough pointing to homicide. In fact, Carr thinks that there is compelling evidence suggesting it might have been self-inflicted after all, and he reiterates all of the stuff that came out in that inquest. But he has this caveat, he's, like, you know, that's not necessarily conclusive either. And basically, if something new comes along, he'll consider it.

I'm going to be honest, that sounds like a very long-winded political way to say, I'm not having anyone work on it.

Which is like, kind of closed, a little bit, right? Yeah. No, it's not closed, but like, we're just, sit back and wait.

He talked in a circle.

But they don't have to wait for long, because actually, a couple of weeks later, something new does come along when another tenant, who lives in Richie's apartment complex, throws a wrench into the timeline that they've been working with. This anonymous woman tells Crystal Britt, who's a reporter with KFES-12's Heartland News I-Team, that on the morning of Molly's death, a female officer knocked on her door just after 7 and told her that there'd been a homicide. Shut up. I know.

But the 911 call didn't come in until a few minutes after 9..

I know. And it's not just this one isolated account. There's this other woman who apparently doesn't even know the first tenant. She vouches for a similar timeline. She tells Crystal Britt that she clearly remembers that same officer at her door between 7 and 8 that morning.

But even if that's the case, in no universe would that officer, checking up on a potentially oversleeping dispatcher, would then go canvas the neighborhood and tell people there was a homicide. Right.

And, like, you, don't jump to homicide unless you somehow were, like, in the place. And if you were in the place, then we're not getting a call at 9..

Right.

But then it begs the question, like, where are these accounts coming from? Why would someone even be there? And if it was some kind of cover-up, like, oh, oh, you know, he's got connections to police, someone's coming to, like, take care of things before police actually get there. This isn't a cover-up. Why would an officer go around announcing a homicide that you're trying to keep a secret?

This is giving me major Joanne Mattook flashbacks.

I mean, well, both cases have connections to law enforcement, so maybe that's not a coincidence. I don't know. But mystery officer announcing a homicide aside, her family thinks it speaks to a bigger issue, which is the thoroughness of the investigation. Larry says a lot of Richie's neighbors were never interviewed at all. And he's frustrated because he feels like authorities are just waiting for evidence to fall into their laps.

Which is something at least. Yeah.

To Mollie's loved ones and the growing legion of supporters that have joined the Justice for Mollie movement, this feels like a flash of hope. Maybe fresh eyes can reinvigorate this case. According to Carbondale Times reporter Jeffrey Ritter, a detective speaks with 10 other witnesses from nearby apartments, tries to speak with one of the anonymous tenants who told the media police were on the scene prior to the 911 call. But she apparently gave them the runaround and then they didn't learn anything new from the other residents.

So she's scared, or she was straight up lying?

It's one of the two, right? So maybe we just have to like discount that. Maybe there was never a mystery officer. Like, focus on the people we actually know were there. They interview Wes again, who this time mentions a totally new detail.

And he's just now remembering all this.

I guess. Again, it's like one of those. he already downplayed the text that he got and then he just forgot to mention that. I don't know. It's weird, right?

Either he has been keeping it intentionally or he has no proper hierarchy of information.

Now, even during this reinvestigation, it's not like Larry and the detectives become buddies. He often hears updates on his daughter's case from the media rather than police. And there are endless FOIA fights. But it finally all culminates to a wrongful death lawsuit in June of 2014 that Larry files against Richie, hoping that this is going to compel people to release the information he's looking for. In his complaint, he alleges that Richie lured Molly over to his apartment in order to do something bad or illegal.

Like what?

That's the thing. It doesn't say. Like the lawsuit doesn't mention what he thinks this bad or illegal thing is.

And did he tell Nina, our reporter?

No. Based on everything I learned, it sounds like he's accusing Richie of calling her over so she could be killed. So, like, I think he's saying that maybe the illegal activity is like murdering her. It's very confusing to me. Anyway, Larry alleges that while she was there, he caused her death, meaning Richie, either by shooting her or giving her the gun.

Right, or they're two separate things.

Ultimately, the prosecutor thinks pretty much everything is inconclusive. Although, whatever happened, he doubts. Richie deliberately lured Molly to his apartment to kill her. And he says there's not a shred of proof to suggest Carbondale PD or state police ignored or manipulated evidence to protect Richie or his family. But Larry pushes back and says that Parkinson's report is filled with omissions and half-truths.

Okay.

And what he's basing it off of is back when they got Richie's phone and saw that all of that stuff was deleted, I guess they tried to recover his data. But for some reason, his phone wouldn't connect to the extraction tool. And listen, there are a lot of good reasons why that could actually happen. But there are also nefarious reasons. We don't know what the reason was in this specific instance.

So, have his parents ever been connected to any of this in any way? I feel like this is the first time you've even really mentioned them.

No. Investigators have asked them about whether they, you know, even went to help him or helped tamper with electronics or whatever. And his mom and dad both deny it. So they have never been officially connected. And again, there's no link here.

Right. Right.

At the end of the day, to Molly's family and supporters, their bottom line is this. No matter how Molly felt emotionally, even if she said she wanted to take her own life, honestly, even if she did want to take her own life, they believe that the forensic evidence points to homicide. But two different states' attorneys have said otherwise.

So where does this leave the case?

Well, according to an article in the Illinois Bar-Journal by Matthew Hector, after Larry's wrongful death lawsuit was dismissed because of the statute of limitations, he advocated for legislation changes. In 2016,, Molly's law was passed to strengthen Illinois' FOIA process and extend the time that people have to file wrongful death lawsuits in certain cases.

But is Molly's case just closed?

I mean, it's actually never been closed. In fact, it's finally active again. A man named Joe Cervantes unseated Mike Carr for state's attorney in 2020.. And when he was running for office that year, Cervantes told Daily Egyptian reporter Keaton Yates that if he was at the helm when Molly was killed, based on what he knows of the case, he would have prosecuted Ritchie. And this year, he filed a motion to basically unrecuse the Jackson County office from the case.

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We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.