Don't Let Your Relationship with Money Ruin Your Relationship with People

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show, it's where we help you. win in your life, winning in your money, winning in your relationships, and winning at work is the goal. And we can help you do that, 888-825-5225 is the phone number, that's 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour and we team up to help you.

Good, how are you? Good.

What's going on?

Yeah, so, I was sent in this message the other day, trying to get some feedback on it, and yeah, my wife and I have been married for about three years now, and we decided, when we got pregnant with our first kid, that she'd be a stay-at-home mom. I was able to financially support that all as well. And then, a year into our marriage, when she stopped working, I found out she had about $60,000 in student debt that she was paying on, so.

That's awkward, huh?

Yeah, yeah.

So, with that being said, it's a private loan, and we're three years into our marriage, second, kids here, just bought a house because it was cheaper to do so than renting with where we're at, and now I'm kind of feeling the push and pull of having her get a job, because what was a 2% interest rate is now a 10% interest rate, because it's a variable loan, and she co-signed on that loan with her mom. So, feeling a bit of obligation to keep these payments up and active, even though it's pulling quite a bit from our monthly income.

Hey, bro, you're playing at the periphery here. This isn't the main issue. The main issue is the woman you dedicated your life to and said, I do to, lied to you and had a huge debt, and you were making decisions, and y'all were moving full steam ahead with one version of your life, not knowing there was another version. Have you dealt with that? We call it financial infidelity around here, and we use that level of, that depth of language because it's that serious.

Yeah.

So, have you dealt with it? Yeah.

Have y'all dug into that?

So, it's been two years now since this came to light.

Why did you go buy a house on top of that, then?

Well, with our second kid, we were paying about $1,500 a month for a two-bedroom apartment,

Yeah, but you traded $100 a month for what?

Yeah, pretty gnarly.

Yeah. So, I don't know that you can afford for your wife to stay at home because of the choices she made and then lied about to you. And now y'all have set yourself further back by having a home, because y'all want to continue to perpetuate this fantasy. You can't afford this house, but you got it, so now you got it. And so, y'all have to make some hard decisions in the short term, especially for the next few years, and rewrite this ship.

So, Josh, this happened two years ago and you call us today. Yeah, glad you called us, by the way. We want to dive into this. But John's making a very, very good point here. I think you're at the end of your rope, or pretty darn close to it.

Yeah. So, I've been kind of pressing her to find employment again and start working again.

How's that going?

It's been very, pretty lackadaisical for the past six months.

Yeah. So, you don't trust her. and then now you're really frustrated at her because she's not pulling her weight, in your opinion, to help out with this undisclosed rock that she revealed around your neck.

Right.

Okay. Are you talking to her when you sit down with her? Are you talking to her in financial terms? Hey, we have this many bills and we have this much money. I need you to get a job that makes this much money.

Very futuristic, because I want to be debt free as soon as possible and trying to get on the same, like, hey, we have things we can look forward to, but this is like a ball and chain. This $60,000..

But she doesn't feel that, does she?

No. No.

She thought so little of that $60,000, she didn't even bother to tell you about it.

It's almost like Josh and John. It's a question for both of you here. Did she withhold that intentionally or was it just literally a whatever?

Well, when she started staying at home, we had, like, switched our finances to a local bank. And then I started seeing these automatic withdrawals of $500, $600 a month. And I confronted her about it. And then that's when it came to attention that this is my student loan.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is, did she do this intentionally? Or do you think it was just kind of a, well, whatever, I don't even worry about it, so I don't bring it up?

Yeah, I don't think it was intentional. What do you think?

I feel like it is.

Dude, you can't hide $60,000 to a guy who's, like, intent on being debt-free, right? Right. I think you came in and you're like, dude, I'm never going to borrow money. We're going to be debt-free. And she went, whoopsie doo.

All right, Doc. That music means we've got to hurry. What are you prescribing here?

I think he's got to sit down and be real honest with her. I think he needs to take 24 hours and write down what he's scared about and write down just how angry he is and how much he doesn't trust her. And then, with compassion, he has to sit down and say, here's where we really are. Will you build something new with me? And hope she says yes.

And Josh, I'm not clinically trained, but I've got a lot of common sense. And that last question we went through with you is you've got to start to acknowledge that you feel like she did lie to you. And you need to stop covering that up so you can heal from it with what John is saying you need to do. Thanks for the call, man. This is the Ramsey Show.

I have to believe it's because they weren't honest about their financial issues. Yeah. Or they secretly bet the farm on Dogecoin.

What about just not seeing things eye to eye?

I mean, I think it depends. Like, I have to have a $70,000 new truck. I just started a lawn business, right? And someone might say that guy's financially irresponsible. Well, that's a much bigger picture.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Both my wife and I married somebody with student loans, each other, right? And then we partnered together to knock those things out.

Same thing with Stacey and I, yeah.

So that isn't a reason. And having debt is not a reason to not continue into a relationship. It is, what is this person's relationship with money and integrity? And I can imagine somebody looking at somebody and saying, I want to build a future with them. And the way they do life is not going to end up in a good future.

I absolutely would. I don't think you end a marriage over it because you should have done your homework before the marriage. Right. But certainly, yeah, if you're dating someone, you're thinking about it. I mean, I know that I've been on calls when I've co-hosted this show, where I've sat there and listened.

But I think it always comes back to what the old man says, what Dave says. It's just a symptom, right? That's right. If, I mean, I could get mad at you for how you just spent your paycheck or borrowing money. That's just a symptom of I can't trust you.

That's exactly right. That's true.

Or you don't tell the truth. That's a relationship killer, right?

Yeah, yeah. So what say you? Certainly for those of you on the YouTubes, if you want to jump in and comment on it, what do you think? I feel bad for that guy, by the way, just kind of revisiting that. In fact, actually, just real quick, I want to come back to that.

He's trying to honor his wife. He was. Or better yet, he's trying not to dishonor his wife.

100%.

And she lied to his face.

But this is, just real quick, coming back to you. I mean, this is not a financial issue. This is a marriage issue first and foremost.

It's an integrity issue.

They've got to get that figured out. And it just feels like maybe she doesn't think it's that big of a deal. Now, we're only getting one side of it.

Yeah.

So speak to that. Because there's always two sides to that. Yeah. That couple comes in and sits with you. Where are you starting?

Well, I'm starting with, what was it about this relational dynamic that you felt like you had to go into the rest of your life with this secret? A, thinking? he's so dumb he's not ever going to know.

I thought it was very telling that he's calling us after two years.

Oh, he's at a breaking point.

He chuckled and said, we're working on it.

They're not working on it?

No, not at all.

And I think that's, again, it's easy, if they broke up today, it would be, quote, unquote, because of the money. Yeah. It's not it. That's right. It's because she deceived him about the money and then would not participate in making it right.

Good stuff there. I hate that, man. Phone number's 888-825-5225.. A lot of stuff revolving around money, and it's not always just the money issue. Let's go to Michelle.

Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

My mom, unfortunately, passed away unexpectedly in February. I'm so sorry about that. Thank you. Me too. And I have come into a sizable inheritance.

Okay. $440 in investments. Yep.

There's $600. that's in life insurance money. That's just right now sitting in an interest-bearing account until I know what to do with it.

Okay.

And then there's $350,000 that is going to come from selling her house, which I'm in the process of doing now.

That's what you'll net?

Yep.

Okay. So, what's your question? We've got about two minutes, so we want to make sure we get to your key question. Okay.

My question is, my goal is to invest most of the money. But currently, my husband and I have a mortgage sitting at $307,000, and it's at a three-and-a-quarter interest rate. And I was wondering if you would advise that I take some of the inheritance money and completely pay off our mortgage, because that's our only remaining debt.

Yes, instantly.

What was your mom's name? Okay.

Loretta.

Loretta. So, imagine yourself having a cup of coffee with Loretta this morning. And here in Nashville, it was kind of cool. It was kind of chilly, and it was beautiful out.

Yeah, she would definitely smile. I think that this money was set up so that I would be set up, and I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing with it.

Well, yes. And let's look practically. If I heard you right, you've got $600,000 from her life insurance policy. that's sitting in a money market or interest-bearing account right now. You've got the $600,000 sitting there.

Yeah, have them, set a table for three.

Oh, that's cool. Right? Yeah. And maybe order her favorite dessert and do something fun to thank her for this special day, because I would be free of that mortgage if I were you.

Right now.

Right now, as soon as we hang up, which we're going to go ahead and do that for you, so you can do it. Thank you. So sorry for your loss, but excited for your future.

This is what legacy looks like, Moms and Dads. Wow.

A life well lived, and what a great legacy that we'll live on for a long, long time. This is The Ramsey Show.

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This is where you get an honest and hopeful opinion about the problems in your life, your money problems, your relationship problems, your work problems. This is The Ramsey Show. So excited that you're with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr.

That's the Ramsey audience right there.

All you rice and beans people, I'm waiting on the discount. Every time we put out a new book, we always hear on social media, I'm waiting, man. Exactly. I got to wait until it's in the budget, and we like hearing that. We do want you to buy our stuff, but we do want you to do it the right way.

He's humongous.

He's big. Yeah. And thin.

Yes. But I've seen your two boys, and now the Paycheck to Purpose for under $16. America.

That won't cut my bacon bill.

Help a brother out.

My bacon bill alone. I've got two giant kids that are just filling out. Yeah, Paycheck to Purpose, under $16.. And, by the way, more best-selling books, so that you can get confidence to win in your money, in your relationships, and at work. RamseySolutions.com slash store.

Hey, Gabby.

Hey. So, first of all, I just want to say, my fiance, and I love this show so much.

Okay. Before we tell you what we think, I'm curious about what you're thinking right now. Where are you planning right now, before you get anybody else's advice?

I've honestly been back and forth. Like, I feel like there's no wrong answer. The reasons why I don't want to go into nursing school is because I'm getting married in March of next year. So, you know, there is a wedding to be paid for. And then I'm also a little bit nervous about not working for two and a half years.

By the way, very good reasons. Let's have a little hypothetical. What if you didn't lose your income? What if the income was still there and you could go to nursing school without any loss of income? How would that change your decision?

I would totally do it.

Wait a second. What? You're telling me. with no financial risk or hardship, you would jump into nursing school? Why?

It's just.

I know, I'm being sneaky. But there's a reason. Tell me why. Why would you jump at it if you knew there was no financial hardship or sacrifice?

Because it's something that I've always wanted to do. I've always wanted to be in healthcare. And obviously, I've been working at this for a really long time. And yeah, I would love to be a nurse. I want to be a nurse.

Just so comfortable until the day it becomes miserable. I want to bring in my psychologist expert pal. Before we get into the money. side of this, John, I feel like I've dug enough here. There's the sandbox.

I was just trying to keep a quick note, Gabby, of.

Yeah, that's the thing. I don't really like. what I do. I mean, it was just a job to get me through and to save money until I got into nursing school. But honestly, my family makes me feel a little crazy for wanting to leave a comfy...

And your family's broke.

Okay, here we go. By the way, you're talking to the two worst possible hosts. you could have called on this issue. Because I wrote a book called From Paycheck to Purpose, and that's all I think about is meaning in the soul. And you've got a psychologist here who, you know, I can't even get through half a sentence without him knowing what I'm thinking.

The things that they didn't do in their life, they probably were paycheck to paycheck. They were grinders. And then you got this magic thing called a government job, which is stable. It's got a pension.

Pardon me while I choke over it.

Are you crazy?

That's exactly what it is. Yes. No, that's exactly what it is. I mean, the cost of living is high. here.

Which is about $3 an hour in San Francisco. Yeah.

And, by the way, you know, the San Francisco government is not what we would call stable. Am I right, Gabby?

There's a lot to be said.

All right, so let's dive into the money piece, because we've already established that.

You're going to nursing school.

You're going to nursing school, if you want our opinion, and we know why you're getting pressure. And, by the way, we're not demonizing your family at all, but we can kind of call out some stuff and say some stuff that maybe you don't feel comfortable saying, right? And we're not even going to make you agree, because we already know we're right. All right. But, okay, how much money did you save?

I had about $15,000, but I just had to get my car repaired recently, so I'm down to about $10.

Okay, and how much is nursing school going to cost you all in?

$15,000.

How much?

$15,000.

Okay, good. So we're great. So now, John, we've got the wedding, the wedding planning, and she's got to save up for that. We're going to cash flow that, because that's the other thing that you're bringing up. And then we've got the month-to-month expenses.

So the wedding, my fiancé and I budgeted about $30,000.

Great.

And then my fiancé also has money saved, and obviously he's also going to be contributing.

So we're going to be able to cover that cash, right?

It's looking like it.

All right, so how are you going to take care of yourself during nursing school?

So my fiancé, God bless him, he's totally reassured me and taken on the responsibility and has said, you know, I'll get us through and I'll take care of us.

Do you already live together?

Yes.

Okay.

Did you do the service?

I did the service.

Did you get online? You did the whole thing?

Oh, it's amazing. Your organ? Aunt Josephine, was the flower girl.

Perfect. It was perfect.

Here's what I'm saying. Get married right now. Today. Get through nursing school. Together.

Gosh, we've got to do an online service for a premium where you marry people. By the way, for a small part of your fee, I'll sing. Actually, we'll have to pay people for that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was a bad idea. Good stuff. Hey, thanks for the call. This is the Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable.

Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible. People that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills?

How am I going to eat next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. It's terrible. Life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance.

And it doesn't cost much, because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. It costs no stinkin' pizza.

Shauna, how are you?

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call. I'm good.

Good. What's going on?

I was calling because I have started reading The Total Money Makeover, and I'm wanting to get started on my baby steps, but I'm having a hard time with my budget getting started. I'm a single mom, and I stay at home. I am unemployed, and I'm only getting about $50 to $150 a week currently, just odd jobs and selling things out of our home. Wow. And I guess my question is, how do I increase my income as a single stay-at-home mom?

Are you getting child support payments? Is that how you're sustaining yourself?

No. I actually just donate plasma, and I babysit when I can, in addition to selling old toys and furniture, just whatever I can get rid of.

Tell me about the child. One, two, how many?

I have a four-year-old and a 10-month-old.

Oh, my gosh. A four-year-old and a 10-month-old. And if I heard you right, you're making somewhere between $600 to $400 a month. Am I hearing that right?

That's correct. Yes.

How are you feeding the children?

We currently are receiving state benefits.

How much?

And we get about, I'd say about, $800 for food.

Anything else? I'm trying to get the entire financial picture. What's the total amount of money you've got coming in between everything you've told us so far and any other benefits from the state?

My children are on Medicaid. I'm still young enough that my dad is carrying me on his health insurance. Okay.

Okay. And all of our utilities.

Okay. Yes.

All right. Let's talk about your support system. Any family or good friends in the area where you are?

I've got most of my family here with me, and they help me when they can, but most of them are working 40-plus hours a week. Okay. And the other ones are, you know, not old enough or too old to keep up with my children.

Does your family go to church, or do they have any kind of community outside of church, outside of the immediate family, where they would know, maybe some grandmas who are retired?

Yes, we belong to a church here that I've grown up going to, but I haven't. That's mostly my family as well, too. About half of the church I'm related to.

Okay. So let me tell you where my brain is going, and I'm really going to recommend that you try this. If you strike out, you strike out. One of the things I would be looking at is, is there a grandmother, somebody who's retired, and they're still young enough and vibrant enough to where they could potentially help out during the week for you? Because I understand that there's no way you can send your kids to a traditional daycare, but I'm trying to get very creative here, and I think you ought to ask.

I'm not thinking so. I was recently offered a job, but it was only going to be $12 an hour. And after the child care cost in our area, even I found someone.

No, no, no, no. Listen, I'm sorry. I'm not talking about going out and putting the kids in child care. I'm saying working from home, which there are a lot of remote jobs. There's customer care where you're just customer service.

I see. I was managing to work 30 hours when she was from two months to about four months old.

Okay.

Or six months, something like that.

Okay. That tells me a lot. John, what I'm digging here is I want to know what your commitment is, because right now you've got some family support, but not as it relates to child care, it doesn't sound like. But if you're willing to work the 30 hours and you've done it before, then once baby's in bed you may have to work harder than you've ever worked in your entire life to get a baseline here. So real quick, and I want John to jump in as well, but let's talk about your skill set.

I'm not afraid of hard work. In high school I helped remodeling houses. I've worked in child care. I've worked in retail. I think I'm pretty versatile when it comes to work.

All right. So here are a couple things I hear right away. I hear that you can talk to people. So there might be some remote sales positions where you're smiling and dialing. Maybe you've got some leads depending on the company.

No.

Yeah. John, I want to bring you in here. What are you hearing and feeling?

Two things. One is just a continuation of what you were just saying.

Yes, sir.

Okay. You're right there on the edge, aren't you?

Yes.

Okay. I am going to do something, and I haven't even made this phone call, but I'm going to make the phone call. Two of my mentors, Lynn and Steve Jennings, who own Jennings Counseling and Associates out there in Amarillo, Texas, they're going to give you two free sessions. Okay? Yes, sir.

Yeah. They have so much to offer.

They're going to stand up for you. Jennings and Associates, Lynn and Steve, we have not talked about this, but I just know your hearts, and so you're going to take care of this sweet woman. I want you to stay on the line, Shauna, but you have to decide. We're going to get radical, radical, radical right now, and I will not become another statistic. That's right.

And let's do this, too. Shauna, we're also going to give you my Get Clear assessment in the new book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. Not for the short term, but I want you to begin seeing that there is a path that John's talking about, but first and foremost, you've got to do everything that John said. We'll give you that tool because we want you to be looking forward. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Ken and John, pleasure to speak to you all. How are you doing?

Good. Hey, can you maybe move your phone a little bit? It feels like you might be a bit muffled, so we can hear you better.

How about now?

Oh, perfect.

Daniel, what a lovely voice you have. What's going on?

Hey, appreciate it. So, I've got a question on my parents. They are pretty deeply in debt, and just wondering how I might be able to talk to them and have some kind of walls come up as I'm talking to them about their debt, because they're in about $60,000 of credit card debt, and it's been a struggle.

Oh, is that the only debt they have?

They've got their mortgage. They say that in about three years, it'll be paid off. They've got cars as well. I'm not sure how much. They've got pretty nice cars, like a Toyota and a Mazda, relatively, maybe a couple years old.

Okay. How old are you?

I'm 30.

30.

Absolutely not. No.

It's been my experience, and the experience of those of us who do this show, parents don't like receiving unsolicited feedback on their money or their sex life from their children, just as a general rule.

Hold on a second. Just a quick question. Are 30-year-olds talking to their parents about their sex life? I got the money thing, but you just threw me for a loop there.

Yeah, it's part of the. I'm best friends with my kid generation.

Oh, I see.

And we talk about, quote-unquote, everything. There's people in the audience like, nope.

My body was waiting to release that one. I just, no.

Okay, keep going. So here's the deal. You love your parents, don't you? And you hate seeing them struggle, right?

Oh, yeah. It's the worst seeing them go through it.

How did it come up, by the way? The first time you made— Yeah, no, no. How did the whole conversation about their debt come up? I'm curious.

I've been through it for decades, but I recently wanted to talk to them about it, because now, hey, I'm on the Ramsey Plan since the past couple months. I can actually see a way for my financial future. Like, hey, perfect for my parents. Let me try to help you guys out.

So you called them up with the formula for cold fusion. You're very enthusiastic.

Hey, man, you're 30, and you've probably seen this before, and you'll continue to see this throughout your life. One of the hardest things to experience as a person is watching people you love continue to make decisions that you know are hurting them, and they will not take your advice. They don't want your input.

Daniel, when you brought it up, was there real tension? I mean, and we don't need to hear blow by blow, but I'm just curious. Has this been a very tense situation, on a scale of one to ten, one being chill, ten being World War III? Where would you put this conversation? How would you rank it?

Yeah, I'd say three or four. They're willing to talk about it, but as soon as it comes down to, hey, maybe we should look at income and expenses and talk about a budget, then that's, well, let's change the subject.

Yeah, of course. So I'm going to run this by John,

That's exactly what it is. It's the powdered butt syndrome. I powdered your butts. I don't want to hear your thoughts on money. And there's a little bit of shame, right?

That makes sense. And I was really hoping, Dr. John, you were going to say, hey, just let them know how you feel, how this is affecting you, and maybe they might be willing to. But it sounds like that's not a good route to go.

If they ask you, then yes. I do think at 30 is the age when my dad and I – and, again, my dad's a homicide detective, so we joked and talked about death way too much in my house and probably more than was healthy. But 30 was when we started talking about wills and where stuff was, and where the insurance paperwork and the state of things in our house. And so maybe in that same conversation you can say, I'm just nervous about. I want to honor you guys in the future.

Okay.

Yeah, I think, John, if he goes that route – and you didn't give him that advice because it still couldn't come across the wrong way if he's like, this is how it's affecting me.

No, they didn't ask for it. They'll stop you. I didn't ask you how this is affecting you.

I could see my dad going, get over it. I don't know why it's affecting you that way, pal. It's very interesting. The dynamic is really interesting. I was talking to somebody the other day because I'm in that stage now where my parents are in their 70s, and you're beginning to see the slowdown.

No, and that's why I love – I mean, I've just been blessed to see it done in such a, quote, unquote, the right way, with my family. Talking about it before there was any emergencies. Talking about, I know where the will is. I've got a copy at my house. I know where the stuff is at my dad's house.

Tough stuff. We're rooting for you, Daniel. Hang in there. Just honor them and let it play out. I know that's harder to do than it is for me to say.

Dane, if you were my friend, I'd call you Great Dane. What's up, dude? I would, too.

I hear it all the time. How are you guys? We're doing well.

I'm kind of deflated now. I thought I just made that up, but such it is. I know. What's up?

Every baseball coach since I've been a little kid. All right. My wife and I are in a debate right now. Should we hold off on building a second home until we can cash flow it? I've heard you all mention before that second homes are quote-unquote toys, but does this apply if my primary residence is already paid for?

Do you have any other debt?

No, I have zero debt. Yeah, and I'm a babysit millionaire. My net worth is like 1.5.. I've saved 23% of my income.

How much money do you have? We're doing everything right. How much money do you have set aside for this second home?

Well, we've been cash flowing up to this point. The last four years. we've done $89,000, and that did the land, the septic, the well, the access road, the electricity, and a foundation.

Okay.

So my real problem, my wife wants to wait, just cash flow it all, and I do see the point in doing that. But my problem is I feel a rush for time. I'm trying to do this for us to enjoy with kids up in the mountains of Colorado, and it's going to take us about seven years to do that. My daughter will be 18.. My son will be 15 at that point.

Well, no, you are. No, hold on. You are. You're opposed to it, and she wants to cash flow the rest of it, and you're like, no, man, I've sacrificed and waited long enough. And that's why you guys are having the debate.

I know which way y'all are going to go. I just thought I could be the exception to the rule.

You know, Dane, I will say you have an exceptional name, and we already told you how great it was, no pun intended. But you don't get a pass on this. Now. my question becomes, now this is the way I think, John. Dane, I understand completely how you feel.

Well, I'm already stretched thin, man.

I didn't ask that. I didn't ask that. I get it.

I literally, I can't do anymore. I mean, I work, I have three jobs. I wrote some successful books that I gained revenue on. I'm working on another one.

Okay, hold on. I'm with you. But I still asked you, what's the number? roughly that would turn seven years into three?

About 100,000.

Okay. And how much are you bringing in? How much are you bringing in with these three jobs and all these books?

It varies. Book sales up and down, but I'm at low end, like 140, high end, like 160..

Okay, and that's all in. That's all the jobs, all the books.

That's everything.

What's your primary income? What field are you in? What do you do?

Yeah, I'm a land surveyor for the state of Colorado, and I can do a lot of the work. I already have done as much as I can on the property myself.

Of course. As far as that goes. What are the other two jobs that you're spending all this time on?

Yeah, I'm licensed across the country, so the state of Oregon is very low on licensed land surveyors, so I work part-time for some firms out there. That pretty much takes up my nights, sometimes my weekends, too.

And what's the third job?

Well, I have two of those firms. Okay. So, yeah, I'm doing that for two firms, and then I got my normal state job, and then my third job.

Is there a way for you to make more money than doing those two surveying things? It feels like that's capped income, and it takes a lot of time.

Yeah, I know it is.

Right? Or is there a way for you to partner with your wife and say, All right, we'll cash flow this, but I need your help getting a job over the next three years, maybe even part-time. And I understand we want to keep the house free, but also I don't want this thing to be built as our daughter's leaving the house to go to college. Would she participate in that way?

She does. She manages some Airbnb-style places. for some people. She makes, I don't know, like $800 a month doing that.

Okay, so here's what I'm challenging you on. And, John, jump in here. I just think you guys are exchanging too much time for the money you're making. If I was all in and I needed $100,000, and my guess is you don't need $100,000, do you? Do you need $100,000 from this point on to get there in three years?

No. I could throw about $50,000 at it.

So wait a second.

But that's kind of like our emergency, emergency stuff, you know? Well, no, no, no, no, no.

We don't use the emergency fund for the dream home.

Well, that's on top of the emergency fund.

Okay, so if I'm hearing you right, Dane, you need to make another $50,000 and we cut this timeline in half.

Yep, about, yes.

$50,000 between the two of you? You guys are spending too much time doing the wrong thing. The question is, how do we make more money for our time?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, you're right. I know. You know what I would be doing if I were you? I would be running an exercise on how much am I making per hour? just for fun?

And then you lean it up against $22 an hour for throwing boxes at Walmart or $21 an hour working at McDonald's. And it's not sexy. But, man. Yeah. If you're surveying and she's cleaning Airbnbs or managing Airbnb properties for less than what you can make at a local Arby's, I'm going to have some hard conversations with myself.

I just don't understand how you came up with, seven years from now having $50,000, unless I misunderstood something.

Well, yeah. I mean, y'all are right when y'all say, I've heard Mr. Ramsey say all the time, this is what you think a house is going to cost to build, multiplied by four or two.

That's what it's going to cost. What I'm saying, Dane, is I'm working off your numbers. But my point is that if what I heard is that you only need $50,000 more to get to that $100,000, that would allow you to finish this house. Bro, that's just a shy above $4,000 a month. You guys could figure out a way to do that.

Yeah, we could. Yeah. You're right.

So I got to be honest with you, man. This is, I don't get what's going on here. You're the one holding up your timeline.

Don't say it too loud.

Well, here's, Dane, it's a common thing that we all experience, which is, well, we pretend that the fences that we've built in our own lives are concrete. They're just not. And sometimes it takes a third party like Ken to go push on it and the whole thing falls over. And you're like, oh, that, I don't have to do that. I don't have to do that.

Man, I'm ready to build a house now. Ugh, it's exhausting. I feel bad for him. But you've made it this far. Stay the course.

This is a real person saying real things.

Bills are not created for single people, John.

Hold on, even better. This is my favorite part. My groceries are $200 a week. Let's talk about the fact that it could be $100 a week because I'm throwing out half my food because nothing is created for single people.

Apparently, neither are storing devices such as Tupperware.

No.

Tupperware, he's throwing out half his food.

I know.

This is a real genius here.

Here he comes. I'll tell you what I'm upset about.

Please, break it down. I'm surprised you made it this far.

Here's what I think is ridiculous in the 21st century. Where's the miniature unicorns, Ken? It's ridiculous.

Well, okay. Can I just throw something at you? Why do you have to share the bed with the person? This sounds like a roommate to me.

Oh, how privileged are you? Because you don't understand what it's like to live in these humongous, cool, hip metropolitan cities and the expensive rent on these teeny, tiny, closet sized apartments.

No, I do understand. But have the roommate. Why does it get creepy? Why do you have to have the person in the bed with you? Can we just do like Dick Van Dyke and Mary Tyler Moore?

If we had that kind of space, jerk.

Oh, so you're saying they have to.

It's because we only have enough space.

For a queen size bed.

For a queen size bed.

Yeah. Okay.

I'm just curious.

Are there any women out there that find that to be creepy? I find it to be creepy if some dude's putting that out there. I need you to be my platonic partner.

Well, so there's another 36 year old entrepreneur from Australia. Recently revealed. she rakes in $600 a month via hot bedding or renting out the unoccupied side of her bed for extra cash.

Folks, I'm not kidding you. I am not an alarmist, but today it starts. If we don't have a meteor crashing down on us inside of six months, then I've missed it. Because this kind of thinking... I'm not even trying to be irritated.

Mila Kunis.

Mila Kunis. Thank you very much. And this is Friends without Benefits? Yeah. Otherwise, a roommate that we sleep in the same bed because we can't afford two beds.

Food is not for single people.

Well, that's great. Then, I guess, if they starve, the bills go away. And it makes it a little bit easier for the rest of us. This is natural selection, folks.

This is Darwinism at its finest. Am I right? Yeah.

Take it away.

I don't have anything to say. How did we get here? This is the longest I've been speechless, I think, in my adult life. But I have no words to say, because this is the absurdity of it all. Yeah, things are super expensive.

Yeah. All right. Yeah. Because there's always get a better job, get an actual roommate.

Or move to a community that you can afford to live in.

And here's what's.

Mark, please pull us from this distorted world. we're in.

Yes. Mark, how's it going?

That was hilarious. Thanks for having me on. I'm a huge fan of the show.

To stay? Is a $600,000 job staying in your area?

Yeah, exactly. It would be still within the Bay Area.

Okay, hold on. Plot twist. Have you thought about moving to Ohio and renting out the middle of your bed?

Very good point. Maybe you could get an entire family to all sleep with you.

I'm just saying, the relationship is real.

I think that's a good point.

I think you could make up the other gap. You know what?

I stand corrected, John. There you went and you just totally disproved my entire theory.

Mark's a smart guy.

Mark, here's the question. Can you not pay everything off with this new $600,000 job in a pretty short amount of time?

I mean, I guess, yeah. My mortgage was about $860,000..

What do you want your life to be, dude? Yeah, this is pretty simple.

No wrong answer. What's your heart telling you?

I think, having my kids grow up closer to their family. Go. Done.

You have our permission to not take the $600,000 a year job. It's awesome. You're a talented guy. You're always going to have opportunity. You get to decide, like a few people do, what kind of life do you want to have.

You'll make it. You'll make it up. I don't think that's a pay cut that stays very long. I love this decision. I agree with John 100%.

Yeah.

And the head's going, turning down $600,000?

That's your dad's voice. No, you're not.

You're a genius. Take the life change that you know you guys want. Dr. John is absolutely right. Thanks for the call, man.

Right.

And they got another one coming up.

That's right. And good news and bad news. The bad news is we have one coming up in October and it's sold out in record time.

Oh, wow.

So it's gone. Congrats. The good news is we added another one for Valentine's Day 2025.. You're welcome, gentlemen. We've taken care of everything for you.