#2113 - Christopher Rufo
2024-03-05 02:23:08
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You were just telling me that Washington State recriminalized, or was it Oregon, recriminalized? drugs?
Yeah, that's right. This just came out the last week, but Washington State, or rather Oregon State, had pursued to defund the police policy, the decriminalized drugs policy, and there's now this dramatic reversal. Because guess what? When you let people shoot up heroin on the side of the road, snort meth in tents downtown Portland, it actually is not good for society. And there's such this dramatic pushback.
I was actually shocked to see it, that Oregon lawmakers, all Democrats of course, said, you know what, we've gone too far, let's bring it back to the center. And I think that's something that's very good.
It's definitely very good. It is a little shocking that they figured it out. It just doesn't seem, like when you go and drive through Oakland, for example, it doesn't seem like anybody's trying to put a cork on that. They're just like letting it be insanely chaotic, like the areas where they have the shantytown set up, and people have tents everywhere, and these makeshift structures. How?
At what point in time do you stop letting these open-air drug dens exist, where people are just cooking meth in front of everybody? That just seems so insane. So it's nice to see that Oregon's like, hey, let's hit the brakes. Is it all drugs now? Did they just put everything in the same category?
Which is also quite insane.
Yeah, I mean, no, it's not all drugs, obviously.
It just says it right here? Yeah. It says the measure makes the possession of a small amount of drugs, such as heroin or methamphetamine, a misdemeanor, punishable by up to six months in jail. It enables police to confiscate the drugs and crack down on their use on sidewalks and in parks. But what about, what are the other, see the thing is, it.
basically, what Oregon did is decriminalize almost everything. The weird thing about drugs is you throw them all into one blanket. You cover them all with one blanket. Drugs. Because caffeine's a drug.
Alcohol's a drug. There's a lot of drugs that we're accustomed to using. And I'm not necessarily in favor of those being illegal. And when you add in heroin and methamphetamine to something that we're already accustomed to, like alcohol or caffeine, it's like, why are these the same things? Why don't you just individually say, fentanyl is unbelievably bad for you.
Marijuana, not so much. Let's figure out which ones are okay and which ones are not, instead of just saying drugs.
A hundred percent. I mean, you just have to do a really simple calculation. You say, is this drug correlated with extreme social pathology? Does it obliterate the individual? Does it cause social problems, social chaos?
And then you can categorize them very simply. Yes and no. Okay, you have alcohol, caffeine, marijuana. You can have a functioning society where those are used. But you can't have a functioning society where people are foiling fentanyl.
And especially if you look at the cities, it's wrecked these cities. The big problem, though, is that the political left in the United States has lost the willingness and the capacity to say no. This is something we've all seen. We're raised a generation of kids where saying no and imposing limits is something that you can't do. It's this idea of liberating ourselves from all limits.
But some limits aren't necessary. Some limits are important. And so I think we're starting to finally see the consequences of obliterating limits. And then now we're starting to say, you know, in a reasonable way, we should start reimposing some guardrails.
Well, that's one of the things you find out when you're a parent. That seems counterintuitive. But one of the things you find out is that children are happier when you impose limitations on them, which sounds so crazy. But they are happier and they have less anxiety, apparently. Obviously, I'm not a doctor.
Because they're – by having structure to life, it doesn't seem like everything is – like if they're in charge, like, oh, my God, I'm fucking 12 and I'm in charge. I have no idea what's going on. And I could stay out late all night. The world's chaos, which it kind of is in some ways. But by imposing structure on them, it gives them comfort.
And I find that's the case with human beings. I find that the people that I know, even artists, even comedians and wild folks, the people that have structure in their life, like, have families and children and have, like, workout routines or things that they enjoy doing on a regular basis that they're very dedicated to, those are the happiest people. They're the healthiest people. They're the people that seem to feel like there's a purpose to life. The purpose is your loved ones, your family, your community, the people you hang out with, the stuff you like to do, whatever it is, pickleball, whatever it is.
That gives people, like, happiness and structure. and this idea that having no limitations and complete freedom and, you know, you want to be just able to, like, fly away on a whim. Like, that doesn't promote happiness. Like, what are you trying to get out of this life? Don't you want it to be as enjoyable as possible?
We've all had bad times. They suck. We try to avoid those. We try to have the good times. But that can be applied to a society as well.
The way you raise children can be applied to a society. Like, you need structure. You need rules. You need love and compassion. You need examples of good behavior.
You need all of those things. And when you let people fucking cook meth in the middle of the street, that all goes out the window. Imagine being 12, driving by a fucking drug den every day on your way to school. You're like, oh, my God. What do I have to look forward to?
Yeah, I mean, that was my life and my experience and observation. We moved out of Seattle in 2020, my wife, at that time, two kids. Because of this precise phenomenon, the politics had gone totally sideways.
Well, Seattle in 2020 was particularly insane.
Particularly insane.
What was the area? What was it called?
The glory of the Chaz. Chaz, that's right. Chaz. But I remember our oldest son was in kindergarten, first grade at the time. And we would be walking to school a few blocks up.
And we'd have to be avoiding schizophrenics, avoiding tents, avoiding people shooting up, avoiding people just shitting in the street.
Walking. Walking. Just walking.
Sketchy. And so, you know, you're trying to kind of navigate your kids around. There was a homeless encampment about 100 yards away from the school, with probably 40 or 50 guys cooking drugs, stealing property, causing trouble. And then you talk to the administrators at the time and say, hey, this is a problem. I don't accept this.
I don't like this. And they say, oh, well, you know, we have to be compassionate to our houseless neighbors. It's like, no, we don't. This is a danger to kids. And it got so bad that they were teaching the kids what to do when they found hypodermic needles in the playground.
Oh, my God.
This is a problem. I don't want this as a parent. I want you to prevent them having to pick up hypodermic needles. And, you know, and it's like a group of people that are so – it's like compassion also has to be limited. You have to have compassion within reasonable limits.
Well, you're dealing with people that will just burn it all down. If you just say arson is no longer punishable, they'll burn all the houses down. These are insane people. They don't have anything. Why wouldn't they just burn it all down just for funds?
Yeah. It's so hard to understand how it got this far. You know, I – and I love when they use terms like the houseless. Like you already have a word for it.
Yeah.
Like stop trying to dress it up with a new word. You already have a word for it. This one's been driving me fucking crazy lately. Minor attracted persons. Yes.
I saw two politicians in two different speeches talk about protecting minor attracted persons. You're talking about pedophiles.
That's what we're talking about.
It must be that these people have no children. It must be. I don't know. If they do, they're monsters. This idea that you are going to minimize the harm caused by evil criminals who steal children's lives, ruin their lives forever, and you're just going to call them a minor, attracted person and try to say that it's an identity, to what – for what reason?
To what end? Like? why would you want to do that?
I mean, the end is – it's not polite to say, but it's quite clear. You look at even something that has been propagandized at length, Drag Queen Story Hour. You say, wait a minute. Let's just break it down to the basic facts. These are adult men dressing up in women's clothing.
Yeah. Dancing and performing for other people's children. That's like – should be a red flag for people, but they've couched it in this language, like you're talking about. Euphemisms. Very soft-sounding words.
Tolerance. Inclusion.
But you're concealing from people the fact that it's like, actually, no, this is kind of uncomfortable. And like, I wouldn't want to do that.
Well, not only that –.
Do you want to talk about sex with other people's young children? No. Not in a million years. That's like the thing you'd want to avoid, like most in life.
There's no reason to talk to them about that. Exactly. There's no reason. They're not interested in it. They're little kids.
They're not interested. It's the adults that are interested. So the question is, why? Why are adults so interested in this? What is the ideological goal, the personal goal?
It's influence. And I find it –.
They're influencing children because, like all groups, as much as people hate to hear this, everyone wants you to join their group. It is a natural human instinct. The idea that that would not apply to gender identity, that that would not apply to sexual orientation, is crazy. It applies to phones. It applies to – People have Android phones.
They're like, dude, switch over. Look, you can use the S Pen. Dude, you can switch over. Look at my AI features. Dude, you don't need iMessage.
It's with everything. And if you don't think that happens with sexuality or with gender, you're out of your mind. It's a natural human characteristic. Why would it be absent there when it's present in literally everything? People use Windows computers.
Shit on, people use Apple computers. You should just try Windows, man. There's so much more variety. They want you to join. They want you to be a part of their church.
They want you to move into their neighborhood. I'm guilty of it too. I got a bunch of people to move to Austin.
For sure.
It's a thing that people do. It's a thing that people do, especially if they found something that's awesome. But this idea that a guy with fucking heavy makeup on dressed like a tart. If that was a woman, I'd be like, what's wrong with that lady? She's not dressing like a teacher.
This is crazy. What is she doing? Why is she dressed like that? Is that a costume? Is she in a play?
She's not in a play. Okay, cut.
Yeah, let's pump the brakes on this one.
That fucking lady's got to be insane. Does she have any kids? Well, actually, she doesn't even have a vagina. She's got a penis. What?
Hold the fuck on.
Now we're getting to a whole other level of this. What are we doing here?
What's going on?
But that opinion is completely normal, completely mainstream, held by virtually everyone. Yes. But people are silent about it. Right. Because they've been stigmatized into believing, if you offer any criticism of the ideology, of gender theory, or the practice, you are somehow a bigot.
You're somehow homophobic. You're definitely far right. You're a far right extremist.
And you're lumped in with KKK. Yeah. You're lumped in with storm front people.
This is a 90% opinion. Yeah. And so what I think is so important is to stop playing the game. Yeah. And to say, you know what?
I'm going to tell the truth, and I'm going to take the slings and arrows, because I know that the public opinion is on my side, and people fear speaking out, but they need representation. And that, to me, is the name of the game.
Well, you are really good at explaining everything that's happening and really good at laying it out in a very easy-to-understand pattern, like where it first was introduced into the education system, the blind spots that people have towards how Marxism works, even especially during the time of the 1960s and the 70s, when a lot of this stuff was gaining momentum in the United States because of the anti-war movement. They were completely ignoring what happened in the gulags. They're completely ignoring what happened in Cuba. They had this very rosy perception of communism, which always leads to military dictatorship, always. There's no evidence of it, ever not leading to that.
It's like the idea of, like, you know, I know everybody dies of rabies, but I don't think I'm going to die of rabies. Yeah, exactly. I'm just going to get bit by. a fucking rabies kills everybody. There's, like, one lady who didn't die of rabies because of a very novel treatment, where they have to put her into a medically-induced coma, because rabies is such an old disease, and it's such an aggressive disease that your immune system can fight it off, but it can't keep up with it, and eventually the rabies wins, and it always wins.
So, by putting her in a medically-induced coma, I don't know what about the biological process of it, but it somehow or another shorted out her body to the point where it had the resources to effectively battle the rabies, because she was just completely immobile in a medically-induced coma. So she actually was one of the very few people ever in history to survive rabies.
The analogy is perfect.
Marxism will put your whole society at best in a medically-induced coma, and at worst you get starvation, gulags, mass suppression, and so on.
It kills the society is what the point is. The point is the best-case scenario is that you somehow, through a medically-induced coma, fucking survive it. There's no improvement. You're probably a wreck for the rest of your life. I mean, it's probably such a horrific disease that everything's compromised after that.
When I was in my 20s, I traveled through a lot of the former Soviet Union socialist republics, so Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Central Asia, and Mongolia and other countries that had been ruled by the Soviets. What happened, and I think there is, of course, with caveats in a much lighter way here, is you have an ideology that seeks conquest. It generates failure, and then it seeks more conquest. So when you travel through those countries, it is the most depressing, gray, dismal, haunted kind of places you can be. It's these Soviet-block housing.
It has enormous rates of alcoholism. You see people strewn on the road, freezing to death in the winters. There's no economic productivity. There's no culture. The Soviets had evaporated their religions and all of their old customs.
And so you have human beings that have been totally extracted from any of their cultural traditions. They've been totally annihilated as far as their economic possibilities. But you still have 3,, 4, 5 million people, and it's what happens when your society is devoured by ideology. And so the ideology that we're seeing in American institutions is, of course, different. We're blessed with this country to have a much more robust system and history, but it's functionally the same.
And to your point, in the late 60s and early 70s, you had true Marxist-Leninist radicals, the Black Panther Party, the Communist Party USA, the Weather Underground. And if you look at their literature, their propaganda materials from that time, and you compare it to what's happening in, let's say, Buffalo Public Schools, their BLM curriculum. I actually did this. I looked at the Black Panther Party pamphlets they were selling to foment revolution and the Buffalo Public Schools curriculum. You know, it's like pretty close.
The ideas are the same. Of course, they're softened. They use the nice language about DEI or what have you. But, you know, we should take ideas seriously. And bad ideas have bad consequences for societies.
And it's a small amount of people that are having an enormous influence on indoctrinating kids. And that's why you're seeing kids today that grow up with this version of the society and reality that we live in. that so doesn't jive with people that are older than them, who didn't grow up in that system, who are like, what are you talking about? Like, it's not that bad. Like, the things you're saying are insane.
You're freaking out over almost nothing and not paying attention to the important things. There's important things going on in this world. But it's not microaggressions. It's not that Google shouldn't show images of white men. when you pump in the AI and ask who the founding fathers are.
They wouldn't even – did you see what they did with Nazis?
Did they make multiracial Nazis?
Multiracial Nazis. They had an Asian woman Nazi.
It's fucking bananas.
It's bananas. It's literally like a movie. It's a Mike Judge movie. It's idiocracy. It's a very strange thing where logic has just been blown by the wayside, because the very people that are in charge of disseminating education and challenging young minds have completely abandoned that task and are now wholesale focused on promoting this ideology that must be adhered to.
And none of these people exist that are teaching these things. None of these people exist in the world that we're currently existing in, which is the outside of university world. These people exist in this bizarre world where they get indoctrinated and educated and then they indoctrinate more and educate more and they stay in this system. And they're not out there in the world. They're just not.
They don't speak for us. But they don't speak for us. They don't agree with us. And yet they're ruling the institutions that are educating our children, that are forming the values, that are creating the very vocabulary that we use. It used to be that you'd have a quirky, tweeted out Marxist professor who would be smoking a pipe in an Ivy League school and you could say, well, that's fine.
The kids go to Princeton and they get two years with the Marxist whack job, and then they get out in the real world. The problem is that that ideology that was confined to a relatively small part of society, where it was tolerated because it added some diversity of experience or ideas, has now extended to institutions that really do matter. And so the question is, if you're sending your kids to school, the majority of the parents don't like what's being taught and it's being taught anyway, what kind of system do we live in? Is that democratic governance? Is that the representation of the people?
If we're paying for it, we're sending our kids through it, but we don't have a stake in and the control of the values that are being formed in those institutions. I think it's a very serious question. It's not trivial to say we're kind of beyond some of those limits and some of those constraints that make a democratic form of government meaningful. When the bureaucracy rules and it's pushing ideology against the will of the majority of the people, we're in a kind of scary position in our country.
And it seems like it's willing participation by the masses as well, because they feel like they're a part of change. They feel like they're a part of imposing these ideas on the rest of the world, and the rest of the world is going to have to catch up, and they will be the ones that were correct because they were on the right side all along. And it's very strange to watch it play out, because it kind of seems unstoppable at this point. It's very disheartening. You see it with DAs.
There's an issue going on right now in Austin, where they have this progressive, Soros-funded DA who's just letting everybody out of jail. What would you do? Rape people? Let them out of jail. Murder someone?
Let them out of jail. It's fucking bananas.
Microaggression, straight to prison.
And they're talking about the drop in crime. But it's because crime's not reported in a lot of places now. Because the crime went up so high and they defunded the police. In Austin they're 500 cops down and the morale is down because of the defund of police and because cops, I believe there was 21 cops that were brought up on aggression charges during the Black Lives Matter protests. 17 of those cases, I think, have been dropped.
I don't know, I'm sure, if that... Here, I'll send you an article. You can tell me if that... It's in Barry Weiss's Substack today. Or her newspaper.
Sure.
But this is a real problem. where you see the results playing out. You see that they're negative. And I mean, kudos to Oregon for correcting course. But you see it playing out with crime and with prisons.
And here's my number one beef with this. All this effort to do that. All this effort to let people out of jail, no cash bail. What about reform? What about putting all that effort into reforming people?
How come that doesn't exist? What about funding reform inside the prisons? What about going to all these impoverished, drug-ridden, gang-ridden communities and doing some good? How come there's no effort there? If you're a real progressive, you want fucking progress.
You don't want people who are already fucked up by the system and violent criminals, habitual criminals, and just let them loose to victimize everybody else, raise everyone's anxiety, create more crime and violence, and have no solution to it whatsoever. That's not the solution. It's very unfortunate. those people are in that situation where they are habitual criminals. And I'm sure a variety of factors beyond their control contributed to that.
Without doubt, right? But the solution is not let them out. The solution is stop that from happening in the future. And there's no effort whatsoever put on that. There's no conscious thought of like, how do we get at the beginning of this?
Yeah, and that's an almost impossible question to answer because it is so complex. There are so many contributing factors. But I actually don't think it's totally necessary to do that. You actually can just say, here are the behaviors that we tolerate. Here are the ones that we don't tolerate.
And then you lay out a series of simple consequences. And so what we're seeing in El Salvador, which, of course, is ongoing. It's fraught with potential problems. But what they did is essentially lock up the 1% of the El Salvadoran population that were the violent, committed gang members and drug runners. And they reduced the murder rate by more than 90%.
It used to be the most dangerous country in the world, highest murder rate. Now it's per capita, you know, depending on how you measure it, one of the safest countries in the hemisphere. The lesson is that it is actually a vanishingly small number of people that commit the large plurality or majority of crimes. And so it's not that you have to have a kind of soul-searching and endless kind of navel-gazing and philosophizing. It's simply to say, you know, people who are a direct threat to others, that commit violent crimes, that maybe have 20,, 30, 40, 100 convictions in their criminal history, cannot participate in society without limits.
And it's something that people have been scared to talk about. But I think that that is ending. Because when people start to feel a sense of danger in their daily lives, they're going to start to break through some of those taboos and to say, hey, wait a minute. Yeah, the letting people out of jail, who are violent criminals, doesn't seem to be working. And I think we're there.
Even in Seattle, they elected a Republican city attorney. They elected a moderate city council, a moderate mayor. And the big cities, especially the West Coast cities,
are waking up to this citizen rage. These are the most prosperous cities in the history of the world. But they can't keep the streets clean. They can't keep people safe.
Well, they can when Xi Jinping comes to town.
That's right. How wild is that one?
That dude is so wild because what he does is so blatant. Like the Panera Bread thing. The Panera Bread thing. The Panera Bread thing is amazing.
You almost have to respect it.
You almost have to respect it.
It's so brazen.
Explain it to people. Wait, hold up.
Yeah, the Panera Bread. So it's like you're going to raise the minimum wage for all fast food restaurants to $20 an hour, except for Panera Bread, because the Panera Bread guy is his friend. I think it's exempt.
But the way around that to make don't look that obvious is places with bakeries.
But that's not, what is the, I mean, why?
Why a specific way of cooking?
There is no rational justification. There's no rational justification for it. And so it's almost like, oh,
it says Panera is not exempted from California's fast food minimum wage law. after all. On February 28th, Bloomberg reported that bakery chain Panera would be exempt from California's AB1228 law, a law that raises minimum wage for fast food workers from $16 to $20 an hour, starting at $81.. So why is that? How is it not exempted?
That's a hell of a fact check. I didn't know that.
But they were saying that it was bakeries were exempt. So what is exempt? It said, okay, Governor Gavin. Newsom told the Los Angeles Times Panera would not be exempt from the law. The spokesperson also did not acclaim the Bloomberg piece, which cited sources close to the matter that Newsom pushed for an exemption that applies to businesses that bake bread and sell it as a standalone item, calling the report absurd.
So is it a fake story?
Or is it something that they might have corrected course quickly?
Roll up to the top. So where's the initial report? Let's find the initial report. Because why would Bloomberg spread bullshit? Bloomberg is a financial paper, right?
Yeah, that's right.
That's not something.
I don't think it would be.
You really can't do that if you're running a financial paper. It's not like the New York Times. The New York Times can say Israel bombed the hospital and 500 people were killed and put on the front page, even if it's not true. And everybody just assumes it's true because it's the New York Times. But they can kind of get away with that.
Yeah. And then they still exist. But if Bloomberg started doing shit like that, if Bloomberg started lying about businesses and what businesses would do, or tax laws, that seems insane. How Panera Bread ducked California's new $20 minimum wage. This is Bloomberg.
Governor pushed for a carve-out. that's perplexed industry observers and benefited a donor. So how do we know that this is true? Do we have to subscribe?
The dreaded paywall.
Okay, no worries. We'll subscribe. We owe you, Bloomberg. But there must be something to it. And it's so hard with that guy because when you just look at the way he praised Biden, I would never run against him, a man of character.
You know, like I'm old school. It's like he's playing someone in a movie that's a crazy person. It's like that's how a really good actor would play. a complete crazy person who's insincere enough that smart people recognize it, but that, like really dull-minded, blue-no-matter-who people are like, he's a winner. That guy, he's got my vote.
I'll tell you what. He can win. He can win this for us.
But the problem is that that's not wrong. I mean, Gavin Newsom is a fearsome political talent. And his willingness to do or say anything, and do it with a straight face, with that sincere voice and that cool, you know, swoopy hair. I mean.
I love that he keeps getting busted, too. I love that he got busted during the pandemic, eating inside with no mask on. He's just fucking.
The shamelessness on that guy is like it's like a laboratory specimen. I mean, it's actually is an interesting guy and fascinating person. in that way. I'm not a fan. I disagree with him politically.
But I don't think he should be underestimated, because those of us who can see through it, I think, are actually a pretty small number of people.
Well, I think you're probably right. And I think there's also people that just want a really good quarterback for the team. That's what I think. I think they barely care who the president is. And I think that's obvious with Obama.
Excuse me. With Biden. Not with Obama at all. The opposite. with Obama.
Obama was like the best example of what we have to offer. But Biden is, without doubt, anyone can beat him. If you were just comparing competence, you know, someone who you would trust talking, someone who you would trust to go meet foreign dignitaries, there's zero. He has no one he's going to beat. He's not going to be a single living politician.
But since he's a top of this team that people are like, this team is our team, no matter what. Like we're all in. I'm a fucking 49ers fan for life. That's what these people are doing. And they literally don't care.
They'll gaslight you into a coma. You see that piece that someone wrote the other day, how his age is his superpower. Did you see that shit?
I didn't see that.
Panera exempted from California's minimum wage hike thanks to Newsome Link. Okay. And this is Snopes. What does Snopes say?
I'm explaining what the article was and then I'll skip to the paragraph where it talks about it.
Did they debunk it?
No. I didn't get through all the article. It is explaining what.
Okay. The confusion exemption. Okay. Here's, according to California state law, set to take effect April 1st, 2024.. A restaurant chain with more than 60 locations nationwide that produces for sale bread as a standalone menu item does not count as fast food.
The confusing exemption led to controversy following a Bloomberg article published February 28th, reporting that the fast casual chain Panera Bread has dodged an upcoming minimum wage increase for fast food workers in California to $20 an hour. The article connected the bread exemption to billionaire Greg Flynn, a frequent donor to California Governor Gavin Newsom's political campaigns, who owns more than two dozen Panera Bread locations in the state. In a statement to Snopes, however, Newsom spokesperson Alex Stack denied any such connection, played a role in the law, and even suggested the exemption would not actually apply to Panera. The governor never met with Flynn about this bill and the story is absurd, Stack said. Well, they don't have to meet.
They can talk on the phone. Our legal team has reviewed and it appears that Panera is not exempt from the law. Whoops. The legal team reviewed it after they. So there is an exemption.
Right.
Right. So that's probably going to get to this.
OK, so how would they not be? The provision exempting restaurants that make and sell bread as a standalone item from the rule was included in both the 2022 and 2023 bills. The exemption, as we mentioned above, is real and was achieved by not designating such restaurants as fast food. However, Newsom's office said a legal analysis determined Panera, like other chain bakeries, does not fall under the exemption because it mixes dough off-site instead of fully producing bread on the premises of its retail locations.
Oh, my God.
Interesting. But that makes sense. Yeah. That makes sense, because they're just like Subway, right? Subway doesn't make the dough either.
That's right. So this. But why would you be able to pay people less if you have an artesian bakery? that requires more skill?
Is the baker's lobby that powerful?
The opposite. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, the bakers are the ones who would be lobbying for more money.
That's what I mean. Yeah. The actual bakers. Yes. I mean, but even look at Snopes.
Snopes has done a fact check on my work. that actually got debunked. PolitiFact has done it. Washington Post.
The history of Snopes is wild.
Is wild. But a lot of these fact check sites, they've actually had to retract claims against me where they say, oh, you know, Christopher is reporting said X, Y, and Z. It's not true. And then I provide them the documentation, the evidence. I raise a stink about it.
And then they reverse course. And a lot of these, like, that's such a mess of facts. And who do they reach out to to verify? Governor Newsom's office.
Right. Who said it's absurd. Yeah.
Of course he's going to say it's absurd because he got in trouble for it. But I think the point about Biden that you were making is really instructive, because Biden is like the weekend at Bernie's president. I mean, it's like they wheel him around. And so what you get a glimpse of is the Democratic Party machine. What are their priorities?
What are they going to put on the teleprompter? What is the staff level going to decide is important. And then they kind of wheel Biden out there to kind of kind of stammer for a couple minutes, say the talking points and get out. And so we're seeing what's important to the party as a movement. The opposite is Trump.
Trump is, you know, a unique individual figure. The party is following him. Look, these are the two models that we have. And increasingly, the voters are saying we want to have a rematch.
What do you think?
Well, it is interesting that he's so frail, that he's transparent. Right. And it's so transparent to the point where the White House press secretary accidentally tweeted as him from her account. You saw that. Right.
Which is wonderful. I love when that happens, because, like, thank you. I was wondering. And now I know, you know, I was really confused. I kind of had a feeling it was you, you know.
And is there ever been a worse White House press secretary? She's, it's. how. how did she get that job? She's so bad at convincing people.
There's. there's a bunch of like hardcore, ideologically driven left wing pundits that are on YouTube that could do a way better job. And they would be fucking psycho about it. It would be psycho about it. And the left would be like, yeah, like.
she's not the one. Like. she's fucking terrible at it. She gets called out for stuff all the time. She gets set up for stuff all the time.
Like Peter Doocy's always setting her up. He talks to her.
He's amazing.
He's so good. He'll provide a little bit of this. But then what about that? And, you know, she's just awful at it.
And she's only really challenged by one person. Right. In the briefing room and still manages to bungle it on the daily.
Well, it's just. there's so much madness that she has to, like, cover up.
And look, this is, again, a kind of brass tacks way of talking about it. But it's what happens when you put identity over competence. Yeah. Everyone knows, like, explicitly. And then, when you hire someone, it's a big celebration of all the different intersectional identities the candidate has.
Yeah. You know, this is our first, you know, black female, I don't know, LGBTQ, not really sure. Yeah. And so the problem with that, though, is when you're not making a decision based on competence, merit, excellence, you're buying into it at the front end, on that different hierarchy of decision making. But then on the back end, you can't do anything about it.
You say, well, you elevated this person for identity. You can't fire that person because of incompetence.
Unless they steal women's clothes from the airport.
Yeah. Exactly. Unless they get a little sideways, you know.
That guy was my favorite.
But the Harvard story is this exact phenomenon. Yes. And, you know, after the 10-7 attack, Harvard kind of reveals the ideology in the institution. And then another reporter and I obtained the plagiarism documents. We were the ones who broke the plagiarism story.
Just for people that aren't aware, maybe so this can be standalone, what Christopher is referring to is that Harvard, the president of Harvard and the president of MIT and Penn, they all had this meeting where they were grilled by who? Which was the?
Stefanik.
Yes. Who grilled them about using anti-Jewish hate. And is that hate speech to say death to the Jews? And their answer was essentially if it's actionable. Yeah.
Then it's hate. It was the most bonkers, bizarre mental gymnastics. And also, with that one woman from Penn done in the most condescending way. Oh, yeah. It's like she is so accustomed to being the boss, so accustomed to people like accepting her word and not dealing with the outside world, that she doesn't realize how fucking insane what she's saying is.
Yeah.
The question was if, if students were calling for the genocide of Jews, would that violate Harvard's policy? Yes. And the answer from Claudine Gay, the former president, was it depends on the context. I mean, you know, and so that is a moment where things that had been obscure, especially for people in the center left, suddenly became clear. Yes.
And so this caused all sorts of chaos, predictably. You have donors dropping out. You have alumni furious. And then a little birdie sent another reporter and me a document showing that actually Claudine Gay, you know, great scholar of Harvard, had plagiarized dozens of passages in her Ph.D. thesis.
And so, in this context of this big fight, you know, you get a document like this, and you say this actually reveals the heart of this conflict. And so published it obviously causes a huge firestorm. But the question is the same. It's to say to Harvard, OK, D.I. is the de facto highest principle of the university.
now. That's clear. But your motto for the last, you know, three, four hundred years, has been Veritas, truth. And we put them in a dilemma where they had to choose one. You either choose D.I.
or you choose truth. Which one are you going to sacrifice? And I think, as a country, the reason that story drove so much attention is because that's where we are politically. That's where we are on policy. That's where companies find themselves.
Where are we going? What are our values? And we have this competing set of values. And for me, as someone who look, I'm unabashed. I'm a political person.
I try to drive political change. I think framing the question clearly so that people really understand what's at stake is just the beginning part of the process of getting sanity back.
Yeah. And I think people are waking up. Jamie, why don't you shut your mic off? because Carl is snoring up a storm over there.
Carl.
While you were talking, I was here.
Yeah. Geez, Carl, is that boring?
Carl gets bored quick. He's only four months old. But the curious thing to me was that most people, until they saw those videos, weren't aware of how far it had gone. And then they're like, OK, now I kind of get it. And there's been a very, very big reaction since then of people realizing how insane everything has gotten.
I think that this is something that came up like when Jordan Peterson first started doing my show, which was, I think, when was Jordan's first appearance? Was it 2015,, 2016?? Yeah. Somewhere around then. When I had seen his story and seen these videos of him being interviewed, explaining to people, no, you don't understand.
If you impose this legislation, that makes it a hate crime to not use someone's preferred gender pronouns, this is not going to stop there. It's going to keep going and going and going and going, and you can't let it happen. And he's right. But back then, the pushback was so fascinating. Because people were like, why are you having this guy on your show to talk about this thing?
that's happening only in these obscure universities? It's never going to go anywhere. But now you look at it eight years later, and it's fucking everywhere. It's everywhere.
Dude, so one of the things that I do, I'm a trustee at a public university in Florida, New College of Florida. Governor DeSantis appointed me and a number of other reformers to take over this university, replace all of the leadership, and then turn it into a classical liberal arts university. It's in Sarasota. It's a beautiful campus. The tuition is less than $7,000..
And we want to turn it into a place where conservative families can send their kids and feel like they're getting a good education. But when we did this, what we did is we came in, we replaced the leadership, we abolished the DEI department. We terminated the gender studies program. And then we said, you know, we're not going to comply with these ridiculous pronoun rules. And so the old DEI director and then her allies at the ACLU and elsewhere actually filed a federal civil rights complaint against me.
So I'm currently under investigation by federal civil rights bureaucrats for refusing to call this woman by Z-Zir pronouns.
Z-Zir. Not, you know, okay, trans, okay, man, woman, okay, whatever. Z-Zir.
Either way, federal indictment, imagine for even just refusing to call this person, he, her. People have always been rude. Are we going to, like, legislate against rudeness? Are we going to say that, like, if someone decides to call me Mrs. Rogan, can I get them arrested and locked in a cage because they're being rude to me, because they're calling me a girl?
If you are a member of a protected class, yes, that's where it's going. That's where they'd like it to go. And, look, I have to spin up lawyers. Thankfully, the university is handling it. But, I mean, this is not trivial.
And what Peterson, you know, Jordan Peterson, great, what he brought up illustrates this point. If they can get you to lie about something trivial, they can get you to lie about anything. It's a simple sales technique. You get people in the door. You get them to buy some small item.
You get them to kind of cash up. And then you work them up the chain to a bigger purchase or a bigger commitment or a bigger ideology. It's how cults work. And so, like, I learned this as a kid. My father's Italian from Italy.
And we went to Rome and to the Vatican. This sales guy. It's like everything about sales and persuasion. I learned, like, 10 years old, watching this guy. He came up.
He said, oh, you know, sir, it's a beautiful day. I had a new grandchild that was born. Let me give you this beautiful St. Christopher medal, or St. Joseph medal, to celebrate this.
And as soon as you take it, you know you're hooked, because he's going to sell you the commemorative Vatican coins for 100 bucks or whatever. And so this is the ante. You know, once you put in the ante, you're playing the hand. And so this stuff is like it's rage bait for the right. It drives headlines.
It drives outrage. It drives, you know, some kind of momentum.
Ratings.
Ratings. But what it's not driving, unfortunately, is a substantive pushback. Legal, administrative, policy, and as far as kind of deeper cultural changes. But I'm very concerned because these are just these gambits where they make. And once they stick, then you're in.
It's very hard to roll back. Look at the military. You have all of these, you know, men masquerading as women that are now suddenly elevated in the military hierarchy. This is not trivial. We're the most powerful military in the world.
We maintain, you know, kind of international peace. And it's like now. the highest concern is trans?
No.
I don't think that this is how we should be making decisions. And I don't think that we should be submitting to the original lie. You should never submit to the original lie, because if you do, you can never successfully push back again.
It's certainly odd that they're pushing that. You know, this is where I get so confused. Because if I really want to go full tinfoil hat conspiracy, I would say, well, if I was a foreign country, I would be promoting this as much as possible in any way I could. I would be funding organizations to do things that would destroy cities. I would be funding universities to continue insane policies.
I'd be teaching them the kind of things that they taught people where that woman – do you remember? you saw that woman who talked to Josh Howley? And he was asking – I think it was like, can men get their periods? And she is actually laughing. I just want to point out.
What you're saying is transphobic and opens up trans people to violence. Like what?
I think she was a Stanford law professor.
She was somewhere. Might have been Berkeley. But it was whatever it was. It was like, what did you just say? What did you just say?
And why did you say it that way? You think you're so accustomed to being in your bubble that you don't recognize how gross it is when you giggle before you say something. I just want to point out what you're saying is transphobic and opens up trans people to violence. Like some men can have periods.
But this is the dominant culture in HR departments, K-12 schools, universities, government bureaucracies. That is the social game that has been established. And so when we took over New College of Florida, it was the most left-leaning university. It's basically the evergreen – it was the evergreen state of Florida. The student population was more than 50%, trans, queer, and non-binary.
More than 50%?
More than 50%.
What are the odds of that in terms of like the normal account when they do – if they get a random group of 100 human beings in the country?
There's a bit of a disparity there. Especially because non-binary is fake. It's not a thing. It just doesn't exist.
You can be non-binary.
Maybe I am.
You can be. You just need to say it. You just say it. I knew a dude who used to say it. He used to date only girls.
That was his strategy?
It's like a con. It's a con. You're a part of the – Male feminists, basically. You're LGBT. Exactly.
It's a little cuttlefish. Yeah.
You know, it is like a – it's a strategy.
100%.
And it works, maybe at the initial, but there are negative consequences.
Yeah, there's flaws. There's flaws. And then, once women figure out what you're doing, they don't respect you anymore.
But what happens? – so we go to the university and, you know, we're the new bosses. The governor gives us a mandate to do significant changes and reforms. And I remember I took some of my guys. We kind of landed on campus the first time.
Student protests, death threats, you know, SWAT team mobilized to protect us. And I remember meeting with the old administrators, you know, and walking in. And these are people that are just wagging their finger in my faces – in my face, rather. Fingers in my face. They're saying, oh, you can't do this.
You're opening up the community to violence. You're at this level. You can't host a talk on campus because – all this same stuff you're talking about. And then I think, like, all of you, are about to get fired. Do you not understand the situation that you're in?
Your finger wagging is not going to work anymore. The governor is tough as nails. He told us before we took over, if you're not driving massive negative headlines, if you're not getting flack, you're not doing your job. I'll back you up 100 percent. Go in and make the change.
But what I realized in that moment is that the people who have created little nests of power with this ideology have never been challenged. No one in a meeting says, actually, this is a stupid idea. We should get back to business. And so for me it was this remarkable realization that we've created this social and psychological pattern within our institutions, where they're, like, fragile, brittle, unhinged, because the most passive-aggressive, the most ideological, the most kind of nagging person ends up winning. And if we're going to have better institutions, we have to have people, men and women, that go in and just say, no, no more bullshit, no more games, no more ideology.
We have a serious job to do. We're going to get it done. And if you don't join the mission, you're out. Pink slip. And so that's kind of what we did.
You saw the same thing at Twitter when Elon took over Twitter. These are the hard decisions that we haven't made in a long time that I think are desperately needed.
I think so, too. And I think that what they're doing by allowing this culture where every anxiety gets justified and amplified, you're just creating more anxious people. You're creating more fucked up kids.
You're turning the whole world into this unfixable, systemically racist, chaotic scene that you have to go out and amend. And you have to amend it through DEI, and you have to amend it through equality of outcome, and you have to amend it through tax the rich. The whole thing behind it is just so unhinged.
And how many of those people, if they had gone to a place where they were met with intellectual challenges by motivated professors who are not ideologically driven, who could have taught them important things about life, that they would remember and apply to the world as they go out and try to make their way? We're not preparing people for that, because the people that are preparing the people have never done that. And it's a giant part of the problem. It's like someone teaching you how to do a thing that they don't do. That's what I say about drag queens.
Unless they're teaching you how to be a drag queen, I'm not interested.
But that's what they're doing.
Yeah, they're doing that, sort of.
For sure, it's a modeling thing. The drag queen comes in with a position of status, prestige, admiration. It's presented as this amazing life path. And even the drag queen theorists, if you read their academic papers, which is not everyone's cup of tea, but I've made the sacrifice, they say very clearly and very queerly, they say, we are training kids to move into the queer ideology, the ideology of queer theory, the academic discipline, but also for other ways of knowing. One of the phrases they use is a site of queer pleasure.
And it's like, they're not hiding the ideology that's driving this, if you dig far enough. And they really say, they say, we need to abolish the heteronormative, traditional family because that's oppressive. Having a mother and a father in a nuclear household environment is a form of racism, transphobia, whatever, all of the different social ills you could imagine. And so we have people that have no sense of responsibility. We've inherited some good and some bad.
You're born into the world in a tragic state of being. Your society and your tradition and your history is some mixture of good and bad. I think on the whole, our history, our tradition is on net, very positive, very good. Still problems to solve. That's a kind of universal human nature.
But what we're training kids to believe is that everything behind them is evil. All of the structures that have provided a sense of discipline and meaning and purpose should be demolished, and they should be replaced by ideological communities. I mean, that to me, is evident in the outcomes. We're creating a generation of anxious, depressed, suicidal, confused kids that have been deprived of all these structures that could actually help them along. I've seen that across the board in my reporting, my work as a documentary filmmaker, in my own personal life.
And so we have to start first by, I mean, assessing your own situation. What do I do with my kids? And a lot of people are asking that question right now. I don't know about you, but when I grew up, if you were an upper middle class, professional class household, your parents bought a house in a nice neighborhood, enrolled you in public kindergarten, and you kind of went up. It was set it and forget it.
That's over. Parents are finally starting to say, hey, wait a minute. I actually have to look into this. I want to be careful and considerate about where I'm sending my kids and what kind of life I'm raising them to live.
Yes. And there's not a lot of good options. That's what gets confusing. And for a lot of my friends whose kids are about to go to high school and about to go to college, they're making these next steps towards adulthood. It's really scary to them because they're like, look, your kid can go down the wrong fucking road, man.
They can go down the wrong road and not be able to self-correct, get caught up in momentum and not realize that you're not contributing to any good. You're just fucking things up worse. And that none of this unhoused or home free, or whatever you want to call it, that's not helping anybody. All this language, all this verbiage, it's not helping anybody. And you have to fucking work hard to get by in this world.
And it's important. It's an important fact, facet of being a human being. You have to learn what your capabilities are. You have to learn how to push yourself. You have to learn to do things that make you uncomfortable.
You have to learn that. And the only way you fucking learn that is by going through. And if we protect kids every step of the way from any sort of difficult thing at all, lower math scores, because people, too many people, aren't graduating. So this must be racist. Let's lower the scores.
Let's just pass people. Fuck it. We don't want to be bad people. Let's just pass people instead of teaching them. It's hard to learn shit.
It's hard. It takes work. That's the whole reason why it's so impressive when someone is really well read. Like, wow, that guy put in the work. It's really impressive when someone knows a lot of stuff.
It's really impressive when someone's really good at something. Well, why is it impressive? Because we know it's fucking hard to do. It's that simple. If you want to develop human beings that have potential and can reach their full potential in this life and be a fulfilled human being, you've got to teach them how to work hard.
That's part of the process. It's unavoidable. And if you don't have that facet, if you don't have that as a core tenet of how you view the world, you're fucking up 100%. There's no way you're going to get everything out of life without hard work. You'll be anxious.
You'll be depressed. You'll feel lost. You won't feel like you accomplished anything. You'll feel like it's been handed to you. You'll be a trust fund baby.
You'll be fucked. It's not good for you. You have to work hard. And so you have to overcome, including emotional harm. You have to go through bullshit.
You have to go through bad friendships and bad relationships, and bad coworkers and bad employers. You have to go through that. It's part of the process. It's how you become a human being. And you can't protect people every goddamn step of the way.
We're just going to create a bunch of grown-up babies who are screaming in the streets, stop oil now, blocking the highway with signs painted with oil, wearing sneakers made with oil. Every fucking thing they own was driven by a truck that was powered by oil. It's insanity. And this is what we've got.
Look, I'm in that world of words, ideas, publication. It's a pretty easy life in some ways, right? You're doing reading. You're doing writing. You're doing media.
But I have a lot of friends that live in my small town that do actual hard work. They're working in the oil business. They're working on commercial plumbing. They're working in actual real things that we depend on, but we take for granted. And those things are actually hard.
Super, fucking hard.
Those things are super hard. It takes a ton of dedication, a ton of skill. And it's the reason that those of us who are privileged enough in the real sense of the word can do what we do. We depend on this entire infrastructure of the actual physical world. And so I get endlessly frustrated with people who have these, ban oil.
Ban oil? Our whole society collapses instantly. Everything that you do vanishes in 10 seconds. And so it's like we've created people with not only no connection to the real world around them, but they have no connection to their own nature as human beings. I mean these are people that don't know what it means to be human.
They're just kind of symbols of ideology. They're like, you know, you look at those videos and you're like, these are not people who are making even conscious decisions. These are kind of puppets as part of some agenda, as part of some mimetic ideology. That is nihilistic at its heart. And that's where I think we're going.
If you hate your traditions, you hate your history, you hate your economy, you hate your own skin color, you know, you have no sense of values. And that's what we all want. We all operate on a sense of values, whether it's conscious or unconscious. And when you try to wipe away all existing values as somehow oppressive or racist or patriarchal, you're dooming people who need to grow up in a world where they know north from south. They know up from down.
And so, you know, with my own kids, that's what I'm trying to do is protect them to the extent that's necessary, create good influences, create some structure, and then prepare them to fight. Because life is a fight. Life is a struggle. They're going to confront very difficult things as they grow up. And, you know, and then at some point, you know, you hope that you've prepared them enough.
Yeah. And when you're looking at the difference between the world of today and the world of just 20 years ago, the change is so quick. There's never been a moment in time where so much of society collapsed so quickly. Like, what year was it? Was it 2020 that we had the highest jump in murder ever?
The same year we had the defund the police?
That's scary. That's scary because that's the opposite of where we expect. If you look at, like, Pinker's work on violence over time, you see that societies are trending in a very positive direction. At least we were until 2020.. And that this one change, just because it was just one year, but that one year was just three years ago, kids.
Another thing like that could do that again, especially when you're dealing with even more people who are released out into the world with these radical ideas, especially the people that are inclined to believe that violence is a necessary aspect of change.
And these are, ironically, the same people that don't want anybody to be armed. It's all so wild. It's so wild because if you wanted to create a perfect recipe for a collapse of a society, you would have a president who's not there. You would have a society that is run by fucking maniacs in the educational institutions, that when Antifa commits violence, somehow it's mostly peaceful. But yet when anyone else does it, especially if anybody else does it in any sort of a right-wing way, that is everything you could throw at it.
Transphobic, racist, sexist, homophobic, whatever the fuck you can say. It's everything wrong with the world. This is a recipe for a civil war. It's a recipe for chaos. It's a recipe for a complete collapse of everything that's around us.
If you just go from what happened so quickly in 2020, it's not hard to imagine, if you could bring yourself back to the time in 2020, to think this is never coming back and it's going to be like this forever. and it's going to get way worse. Because if it can get like this, where people can just smash into stores and loot, that's what I started seeing. That's one of the things that got me out of California. I watched these guys smash into this clothing store and steal everything.
By the way, all white kids. And I saw...
Or down in Santa Monica or something?
It was in Woodland Hills. And I saw there was a target there that got targeted too. They lit like a dumpster on fire and pushed up against the door. There was a lot of shit that people weren't getting caught for. And it was right after the George Floyd riots.
So the cop cars burning on the highway were an image burning everyone's mind still. And I was like, oh, I know how this movie plays out. I'm getting the fuck out of here. That was my first thought. I was like, I need to figure out how to get out of here.
This is... I can't stay. Because this is only going to get worse. And if you don't get out now, and you're going to wish you got out when something happens to someone you love. We got to get the fuck out of here.
This is bad.
And it's not hard to imagine that our society, given the current situation and given the current influences, it's going in that direction. And if I was in another country, I'd be fucking pumped. I was looking at... What's that lady's name? Rachel, whatever it is.
The admiral. First female admiral.
Sir or madam Rachel Levine. Yeah, madam.
Wonderful. Hilarious. And this other one, that was some recent trans-military person who was saying we should all put our pronouns in all of our emails, even if it's obvious. Like, shut the fuck up. Yeah.
Shut the fuck up. How come something that used to be considered a mental illness just 10 years ago is now at a precedent? Now it's a valuable asset? Now it's an important part of our community? Now it's not?
Like, if you found out someone was suicidal, would you want them in charge of the nukes? You wouldn't, right? Well, you know, just on paper, the amount of trans people that are suicidal is much higher than everyone else. Like, isn't it something insane, like 40%? It's something crazy like that.
What are you doing? Like, are we ignoring facts and statistics? If you know that someone is a bipolar schizophrenic and you got them working on a gun range, shouldn't you say, hey, Harry, we just pulled your file? And you fucking fly off the handle and you have 113 violent episodes since you were a teenager. Give me that gun, you motherfucker.
Get out of here. You can't work here anymore.
It's like putting Kanye in charge of, like an air wing in the Air Force or something. Like, whoa, I don't know about that.
It's just nuts where we have decided that, listen, I have full sympathy for someone who has gender dysphoria. I've met many people that I truly believe they have somewhere in there. they are a woman and they got stuck in a man's body. And I think that's real and I think that's always happened.
But when you make that more powerful than just being a normal person, more preferable than just being a normal person, subject to less scrutiny, than being a normal person, just a regular person. I'm not saying you should discriminate against trans people. I think you should just let everybody be whoever the fuck they are. But don't tell me that I'm supposed to ignore all the other things that could be at play. Say, if you're a biological male inmate and you decide that you're a woman and you want to transition to women's prisons, which in California 47 men have done.
Don't tell me that just because you're trans, like, I'm supposed to abandon that. Like, I'm supposed to ignore that sex offenders could just walk into a women's locker room with an erection, and everyone's supposed to ignore that. Like, what do you do? Now? you are fucking up the acceptance of trans people.
Because you're saying that trans people are going to come along with all these sex offenders, which is not really true. There's a lot of the trans people that aren't sex offenders. They're just trans. These other people are taking advantage of this fucking massive loophole that you've left in here. And you're victimizing female professional athletes, female college athletes.
You're jeopardizing scholarships for those athletes. You're doing a lot of things that fuck up biological women. And there's no consideration for that at all.
Yeah, and look at this kind of sorority house. I think it's probably the best example of this phenomenon where you have some, you know, 6'2", male that is now bunking with a house full of women, young women, in a sorority house somewhere. And look, obviously, you know, this guy's a pervert. Full stop. That is a kind of patently obvious thing, right?
They're exploiting it.
They're manipulating it.
You should certainly consider the possibility that he's a pervert.
I think it's at the minimum a big, bright red flag that is waving in your face. But the question is an institutional question. You know, who are the fathers of these young girls, the deans of the universities, the university presidents? It's like, hey, wait a minute.
Accommodate this person. Try to talk to this person. Figure out what the deal is. Assess whether it actually is kind of a real threat or not. Figure out some alternate arrangement for this person.
But especially if the young women are telling you, we don't want this. We're uncomfortable with this. We don't like this. Get this person out. It's a failure on our social institutions that we haven't developed any kind of method for solving this problem.
Well, it also shows our oppression hierarchy that we have always protected women from sexual predators. Unless that sexual predator identifies as a group that has a social hierarchy above biological women, which is a trans woman. And that's where we're at. And it just shows that this is cult thinking. We're in a cult.
This is a doctrine that could have been created on the top of a mountain by a wizard. It's nonsense. It's fucking nonsense. And somehow or another, it is the norm in a lot of universities. And it's fucking crazy.
And these women that have to deal with this shit, it's fucking nuts, that people aren't insanely outraged. And that it's not stopped immediately.
People are scared. That's the common denominator to all of these things.
But the problem is, the rebound of that is equally horrific. Because the rebound of that is that people have enough. And then, when people have enough and they find out, there's this biological male that's being housed in this women's sorority. And this biological man, maybe he does something to one of those women. That person, there's going to be vigilante, justice.
And that's the last thing you want.
We want to avoid that by having sensible policies now. And head off these problems before they balloon into something that is unmanageable.
It's not already.
Again, people are scared to speak out. You talk to folks that are – I used to have this idea that there's the concept of fuck you money. Once you have a certain net worth, you're untouchable, you're kind of immune to social consequences, you can do whatever you want. That's not even true. I talk to a lot of folks of considerable means, and not all of them, but many of them are also scared.
Because there's status and prestige concerns, family concerns, business concerns.
And so it really is up and down the line. People are scared to speak. They're scared to tell the truth. And because there are real social consequences for doing so.
Real consequences across the board. It's not just social. There's economic consequences. There's consequences in terms of your own personal safety. There's a lot of weird shit that's going on that people are just tolerating.
And it's so strange for me.
I'm 56 years old. I was born in 1967.. I lived in a different world. And I grew up in a world with no internet. And so to watch this world change the way and to be a part of the internet now and to have existed in both worlds is a very fascinating contrast.
Because I get to see. How old are you?
39..
Okay, so you don't know shit. You don't know shit about the pre-internet days.
I didn't get a cell phone until my senior year in high school.
Oh, you, poor baby. But you had a computer at home, though, huh? Yeah, we had a computer. And it was attached to the internet.
It was attached to like AOL.
Yeah, well, that's something. The kids today, like the 20-year-olds, they don't know. jack shit about no internet. It's crazy. They have full 5G everywhere they exist.
And they're always on. They're always on. They're always on. They also know where everybody's location is because they use Snap Map. They're all Snap Mapping each other.
So they know, like, oh my gosh, she told me she was going to go to Becky's house. She's over at Debbie's house.
It's like surveillance of your friends. It's fucking nuts, man. Could you imagine?
Also, it gets you very accustomed to the idea that you have no privacy, which is a reality that we will soon face. And the problem is also that the same people that are involved in pushing these psychotic policies, they're not just the educators. They're also these institutions that recognize the power dynamic and the amount of influence that you can have. If you can get people to adhere to these things, you can get them to do something really stupid, like submit to a social credit score system, which you would attach to a centralized digital currency. Now you've got communism, and it's like that.
It's very quick. And just like people self-censored on Twitter and self-censored before Elon Musk and self-censored on YouTube because they don't want to get demonetized, people start doing that in regular society. They will do that because you don't want your social credit score system to drop. And it could be something as simple as not using ZZer. Not using ZZer, and all of a sudden you get hit with a federal charge of not using ZZer, and now you are being tried for discrimination.
And if those fucking psychos are in charge, you might get convicted. And now, all of a sudden, you've got a real Soviet Union-style gulag situation in 2029, United States of America, with Admiral Levine as our first female president. Yeah, that could be our first female president.
But we're not far from there right now. I mean, the absurdity of the ACLU filing a complaint, and now the Department of Education Civil Rights Division following up, for refusing to use ZZer pronouns. I mean, it's like it is what it is. This is something we're already hearing. And so the first step is to intimidate, right?
It's an intimidation mechanism. You've got to defend yourself. You've got to get a lawyer. You have to spend time on it. Right.
Maybe you'll get deposed or subpoenaed for your records and texts and documents. And so a formal social credit system that's tied to your digital identity would just take this to the nth power. And I spent a year living in western China when I was a documentary filmmaker.
And this is where the Uyghurs are. The Uyghurs are the Muslim minority population of China's west. And they're ruled by the Han Chinese, who comprise the majority of the country. And so I'm observing kind of what they're doing, what they were doing over time. And it gets to be a centralized control over your identity.
You know, they wouldn't allow Uyghur men to wear mustaches, like trivial things. that are the beginning. But then it's like very serious regulation of thought and opinion. And so it's propaganda that is backed up by force. That's really all that we're talking about.
And we have in a much milder form, like a light beer form, propaganda that is backed up by the force of the state. And we have to push at every opportunity. And look, I'm a conservative. I work with conservative politicians and intellectuals because we're cobbling together the only viable counter movement. You can't solve this by culture alone.
You have to get in the arena of politics. You have to change the law and you have to replace institutions that are broken with new institutions. It's an uphill fight. There's not a huge reservoir of talent and resources at our disposal. But what I've been trying to do, whether it's with Harvard or critical race theory or DEI, all of these stories that I've broken and campaigns that I've run, is at least turn people on to the idea that something is deeply wrong, put a name and a face to it, and then offer some pathway for them to resolve these problems.
And if we don't, we lose the great promise. We were promised liberty and equality. Those are the two fundamentals.
People don't even have an understanding of what that means anymore. And so we have to recover intellectually what has been erased from our discourse. And then we have to fight in the arena of actual political power. We have to take action. We have to change laws.
We have to reform bureaucracies. We have to lead institutions. And so every day that I wake up, it's like, that's what I'm doing. What wins are we putting up on the board? Because unless we're having substantial wins in all these little areas, that social credit system that you're talking about, it's just a matter of time.
When you look at the current political landscape, particularly these trials, how disturbed are you by what seems to be this acceptance that people have for prosecuting political opponents? Because to me, regardless of what you think about Donald Trump as a human being and the polarizing figure that he is, setting the precedent of trying your political opponents to, somehow or another, either put them in jail or make them seem like complete total criminals in a way that would, for the casual, for the person who's not reading deep into the headlines, for the casual Democrat that sees this Trump real estate thing that just happened, where he got fined $365 million. The casuals, I've seen people argue that fraud is fraud, and this is that, and he's a fucking fraud. And then I saw Kevin O'Leary explain it from Shark Tank. He was saying this is what every real estate developer does.
They say, my building's worth $400 million. And then someone comes along from the bank and they say, no, it's worth $300 million. We'll give you a loan on $300 million or whatever it is, whatever the number. But also, real estate pricing in general is a strange thing to say. that's fraud because people overvalue their property all the time.
I mean, it's a standard thing that people do. When someone has a house and it's worth $700,000, they decide to list it as $900,000.. And the real estate person says, well, you know, it's really pushing it. You guys, that's what I want. I think it's worth $900,000..
People have always done weird shit like that. And then when you have this leftist judge that says that Mar-a-Lago is worth $18 million, then you just showed all your silly hands. You showed your hand because that's a crazy thing to say in a place that is the most expensive real estate on earth.
Yeah, and the Mar-a-Lago property is not worth $18 million.
Isn't it like 18 acres?
Yeah, it's huge. It covers both sides of the little key, or whatever you call it, the little island. But the bigger question is the question that was first raised by the presidency of Richard Nixon, that is now coming to fruition with the presidency and the kind of ex-presidency of Donald Trump. We have a democratic system that favors Trump in the sense that he won in 2016.. He's winning the primary right now for Republicans in 2024..
But you have a bureaucracy that is dead set against him. And the rhetoric amounts to a very odd claim. They essentially say, we want to keep him off the ballot. We want to put him in prison. We want to bankrupt him so he can't become the president, even if the people support him.
We want to deprive the people of making the decision. So you want to take it out of the realm of politics and into the realm of administrative justice or the criminal justice system and adjudicate it in that way on bogus pretexts. I mean, the cases are bogus.
And so the question that we're raising is who actually rules in this country? Is it the American people who get to decide by their vote, who represents them in the government? Or is it the permanent bureaucracy that has accumulated so much power, what they can say even to Donald? I mean, Donald Trump has been one of the most famous people in the world for decades. He's enormously wealthy.
He's already been the president of the United States, powerful person. And the message is we can take out anyone that is a threat to the interests of the system that we've built up. And so, as someone who I didn't vote for Trump in 2016,, I did vote for him for 2020.. I'll absolutely vote for him now, in 2024..
It is a contest of how we think of our democratic system. And I'm of the mind that the people should decide, not the bureaucracy. And this is a contest where Democrats are saying, essentially, we have to destroy democracy in order to save democracy. Democracy has very different meanings in the two usages in that sentence. We have to destroy democracy, as we've traditionally known it, electing a president through a vote of the people, in order to save democracy, which is ruled by expert opinion, ruled by the bureaucracy, and, essentially, left-wing hegemony, left-wing domination over institutions.
And as someone who tries to maximize whatever I can do to push forward on these issues politically, it's not lost on me that if they can wipe out someone like Donald Trump, we're all table stakes, relatively. And they're going to have no hesitation because once they cross the Rubicon, metaphorically speaking,
that's when dissent becomes a crime. And we've already seen that. I reported on the gender ideology in schools and work with some of the parent groups that we're trying to mobilize. And they all got put on an FBI list. We know this for sure.
FBI counterterrorism list that was specifically for parent school board protesters. So if you participate in the democratic process, we'll turn you into a criminal. I hate that with every fiber of my being. And whatever threats come my way, whatever lawsuits, whatever kind of investigations come my way, it's worth it. Take me to prison.
Fine. Let's do this. Because we have to actually confront these questions head on. We need to have people that have enough courage to put – to actually –. courage without risk is not courage.
What you're saying is not hyperbole.
No, these are facts. These are documented facts.
And, again, because it's a person like Donald Trump, you get people thinking, like, if you could stop Hitler by any means necessary, wouldn't you stop Hitler? And so they equate Donald Trump with Hitler and go, here you go. This is our modern Hitler. Do you see what Whoopi Goldberg said?
What'd she say?
Whoopi Goldberg said that Biden could arrest all the Republicans and put them in jail. You just need to see how unhinged this kind of thinking is. Well, you know what Joe Biden could do? Joe Biden – you have to see it because it's so crazy.
On TV.
On television. Find that now, Jamie, because it's so – Let's look at a scenario where the Supreme Court says, yes, he has that – he has all those rights. He is immune from everything. You know what Joe Biden could do, since he is presently president?
What? Whoa.
He could throw every Republican in jail.
Yeah. I mean, he could.
I mean, no, no, no, no. This is not a good thing. Because he would be immune, because he would have those rights.
What this means is he could do anything. That's not what it means at all.
Yeah, no.
But the fact that she says that so confidently,
like if you're willing to let Donald Trump use presidential immunity, that means Joe Biden could just go crazy and arrest all the Republicans, because that's what that means. No, that's not what that means. even a little bit. Yeah. You just added a whole bunch of stuff to what that means.
I mean, in fairness, though, I mean, the view has to be – if you average out the view hosts, among the dumbest people on television. It's like they say the thing that people are thinking, but they say it very directly, so they expose whatever truth.
I don't think some of them are dumb.
You don't think so?
No, I don't think Sonny Hostin is dumb. You think it's deliberate? I think she's ideologically driven and they have blinders on for sure. I don't think Sonny is dumb.
But Whoopi is certainly not the brightest person. And what she just said just doesn't make any sense. It's just like so silly to say. It's not a well thought out – it's like if you had an idea for a premise and it was totally baked and half-baked, and you went on stage with it and just fucking – Just go for it. Yeah, there's nothing there.
Sometimes comics do that.
The other question is then, is that representative of a big constituency? I think probably yes.
Well, a lot of people –.
MSNBC viewers are probably also thinking –.
I think they're a little bit more sophisticated than that. This is like low information, blue, no matter who, like older housewives who are mad at the world. That's the appeal that Whoopi Goldberg has. Does Whoopi have children?
No idea.
It's interesting too, like really politically motivated older women who don't have children.
Yeah.
They're very specific. You can kind of guess the way they think. I would like to see what the stats are on older, post-menopausal women with no children and how they lean politically.
Yeah, college educated.
I don't know why. I know, it's extreme. I bet it's like my fans being male.
Yeah, exactly. It's like ocean blue. I mean the depth of that.
Because the women that I know that are Republican, they're almost all moms. It's kind of wild. Well, there's a lot of young, like hot Republican women that are social influencers now too, which is hilarious. Yeah. It's fun.
It's fun to see like these trends. You see them in things where people realize like, oh, this is a path to success. I'm going to be a black Trump supporter. Totally. They just run with it.
Yeah. You see a little bit of that. But I feel like, with a lot of moms that I know that were like hippies. And then they had kids. And they're like, fuck this, like immediately.
Like a buddy of mine's mom who was like super fucking left wing, full on leftist. She had kids. And then the riots and COVID and all the chaos. She's like, fuck this. Like it red pilled so many of those folks.
They're just not talking about it. They don't talk about it outwardly, because they're real uncomfortable with being ostracized and being yelled at. Especially with like groups of their old friends that are single, that still live in Los Angeles. You know, especially if you're like certain ideological hubs. You know, like fucking Silver Lake.
There's like these spots where you can't escape.
Dude, I lived in Topanga Canyon for a year.
Oh, boy. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a hub. I went to look at a house in Topanga Canyon.
And the house had a tennis court. It was this beautiful house with a tennis court. I went, wow, that's really cool. So we're going through the house and we're checking out the kitchen and all this stuff. And then the neighbor just drops in.
And she goes, if you buy this house, you're going to let us use the tennis court, right? I go, what? She goes, the community uses the tennis court. I go, the community uses the tennis court. that's in my fucking backyard?
If I buy this house, I have to agree that, like, maybe I can't play tennis because you're playing tennis? What the fuck are you talking about?
You've got to sign up on the list, man.
But she, like, got in my face with like beads on and shit, you know, like the whole deal. Yeah. Like that. But she didn't say it. like, are you going?
Like this? is the community as traditionally allowed. Like, we're like a really close-knit group. You're going to love living here. Yeah.
Really nice people. But one thing I want to tell you is like we all like to get together and play tennis back there. Do you think that would be okay if you bought this house? That would be a different conversation. Yeah.
I'd be like, maybe I like this lady. Maybe, look, Alice is out there playing tennis. Maybe we're friends. Maybe it's cool. Like, if I live next door to my buddy and he was over there playing tennis, I'd be like, what's going on, man?
What are you doing? What's happening? It would be fun. Yeah. It would be like a cool thing to have your friends playing tennis in your yard.
Maybe this would be fun. But you're going to let us use the community is going to use your tennis court, right?
With the eyes wide open.
What if I get to use yours? Can I use your kitchen? What the fuck are you talking about, lady?
I'm going to go fishing in your backyard. What are you saying?
What are you saying?
It's a wild place, though, because it's like a time capsule. There's some of the old timey hippies that I get along with.
Yeah.
It's like, I love those people. I grew up around those people.
Unless they want to use your tennis court. Yeah.
But then it's like, oh, yeah. Can't use my tennis court. I lived next to a guy, this guy, white dude from Georgia. Went by like an Indian, like spiritual name. Oh, nice.
And he was, and this dude was, he set up a business called Live Water. So he was like rappelling down like mountainsides, gathering water, and then selling it to all the rich housewives down in the Palisades. It was like living water. I'm waiting for the scam.
That was his deal. Was there a scam?
Oh, yeah. The scam was like, it's completely dangerous, right? But, you know, he's like a well-meaning guy. And then, I mean, he would walk around, like he was a duplex we shared. And, I mean, he would walk around just like no pants on, just totally naked.
Really? Yeah. Just like, what's up, man? Just talking to you like it's just a normal conversation. Naked, yeah.
Normal conversation. And it's like, oh, good to see you, Mukande. Were you single at the time? I was single at the time. So it was like, and he has a girlfriend there.
They were making like nut butters and selling this raw water.
I bet they were.
That's what they were doing. And they were like, yeah, you want to come to a tea ceremony tonight? It's like, yeah, I'll check that out, man. We'll go to a tea ceremony. And there was like a peaceful, hippied out California culture.
that was fine.
Yeah.
But the second you're like, yeah, now we want drag queens in schools. You're a bad person because your ancestors came from Europe. And, by the way, we want to destroy the whole society. That's when I'm like, I'm going to tap out. And now we're going to fight about it.
Well, you know how. you know that this is an ideologically driven thing, that you have. this very clear group of opinions that you must adopt? Is the rejection of the gays against groomers movement.
Right.
Because they attack those people mercilessly. It's like, no, like. we are just homosexual men, and we don't think that indoctrinating children the way you're doing is right. It's not right. Like what you're doing is fucked up.
You're not supposed to be teaching kids about blowjobs when they're six. Yeah. They don't need to know about sucking dick when they're six. That's nuts. And anybody that wants to put that in schools and put these blatantly pornographic.
And then here's the thing. This one drove me bananas when they said the don't say gay. That it's a don't say gay law. And everybody kept repeating it. All these liberals that I know kept repeating it.
It says the don't say gay law. Nowhere in that law does it say don't say gay. Right. That's not what it's about. It's about introduce.
And it's a very specific age group. It's about introducing sexually explicit books to kids that are a certain age. And they're calling it the don't say gay law. And I'm going to say it. I'm going to say gay, gay, gay.
Wow. Yay. You deserve a prize.
Yay. Again, older women, no kids, liberal. Right. But that's not what the law said. But for low information, viewers of The View or listeners of MSNBC and the people that kept repeating that, the don't say gay law over and over.
They're like, wow, you hear what they're doing in Florida? You can't say gay in school. Imagine being a gay kid and you're in that class and you can't even say you're gay. That's fucking nuts. Like, hey, pal, we're talking about seven-year-olds.
Yeah.
And I did a bunch of reporting. And the stuff that they're doing is like insane. It's not just, oh, teaching kids about sex. Okay, fine. Obviously, they have to know certain biological realities that sooner or later we all figure out.
But it was like artificial penis packers. That was a story I did. They were teaching, like Chicago public school kids in middle school how to wear fake penis. And then setting it up with the hormone clinics.
But if they don't teach them that, who's going to teach them? That's right.
The older guy down the street who runs by in the van. Yeah.
Come on in. I've got lessons.
But it's like. I worked a lot on the policy in Florida. And what it boils down to in Florida is a pretty simple thing. There's been such a politicization and radicalization of gender theory in schools. The governor wisely just said, you know what?
Let's just take that off the table. Let's focus on reading, writing, and math. Let's focus on a good civics curriculum so that we have real citizens that were graduating from our public K-12 schools. And then let's let families, churches, and private society determine for themselves what they would like to teach their kids about these controversial issues. Just take it off the table.
No instruction on gender ideology. No instruction on, of course, the explicit sexual materials. beyond some reasonable considerations. And this to me is fair. You can't teach religion in schools.
They delegate that to the private sector, to civil society, to parents and families. Unless we want to have an all-out fight all the time over these issues, why is it even necessary?
It's not.
I have kids. I don't want them. I don't feel like a need for the school to teach them about these things. We teach them at home. We talk about them.
They naturally kind of learn and develop. And so I think that it is very wise to just say, let's take it off the table. Let's delegate this back to people in their personal lives. That seems like a solution that everyone should agree with.
Completely logical, unless you're dedicated to indoctrinating people into your movement. What is the don't-say-gay law? Let's be specific about that, just in case anybody tries to call us on this.
So it was initially no teaching on gender identity and sexual orientation in K-3..
Which is super reasonable.
Super reasonable. And then it caused this massive uproar. And the legislators said, all right, we're just going to double down. Now it's K-12.. They're saying no gender identity, no sexual orientation, no explicit pornographic materials in K-12..
We're taking it totally off the table. And look, there is a reasonable argument to be made to say, okay, elementary school, I get it. Maybe a little bit in middle school. Maybe in high school there's more latitude. Like, okay, that's a reasonable consideration.
But it's also eminently reasonable to just say we're taking it all off the table.
And just teach people.
And just teach people what they need to know to be successful in life.
Also, I'm sorry, but I had good teachers growing up. I had quite a few that I remember. I have a science teacher from 7th grade that to this day I think about fondly. He was a brilliant man and he taught me about wonder. I think about that guy.
I've also had a gang of fucking morons who taught me. And I don't want that gang of morons teaching my children about biological sex or gender, or homosexuality or heterosexuality, or oral sex or anal sex. I don't want nothing. I don't want you teaching them anything about any of those things. I don't want you telling them that you're a Z-Zer.
I don't want you pretending that you're a foxkin. I don't want any of that shit. If you're teaching history, I want you to teach what happened in 1943.. I want you to teach math. This is how you count.
This is how you divide. This is algebra. This is what you're supposed to be doing. That's what you're hired for. If you're a drag queen and you're not teaching how to be a drag queen, that's it.
If somebody wants to take drag queen courses, all for you. But I don't think you should be reading stories to little kids. It just seems fucking bizarre. It's one more factor that kid has to deal with.
Totally.
For what reason?
For what reason?
Inclusiveness?
That's bullshit.
It's bullshit.
It's bullshit. Because it's not inclusive of many other perspectives, traditional perspective or religious perspective, general kind of conservative perspective.
Also, how much are you screening these drag queens?
Well, not enough.
What is the odds that someone who's a man who likes to dress in drag has other problems? I'm not accusing all of them of having other problems. I'm sure some of them are just lovely people who like to wear women's clothes. Have at it. Totally.
Have a good time. However, there's a possibility that you might be a kinky freak.
Yeah.
There's a real possibility. if you're putting fake eyelashes on and 10-inch heels and you're calling yourself Miss Wanda and you're wearing fishnets and you tuck your dick into your butthole region, and tape it down, or whatever they do, it's a possibility you might be out of your fucking mind.
And if you're doing a drag show at a bar in the Castro and that's a kind of subculture where they're all adults, they're all opting in, have a good time, knock yourself out, totally fine. But it's like bringing that into the public schools with government funding, with other people's kids, that's when I think reasonable people say no.
Yeah. Reasonable people should say no, and the people that don't say no think that they're going to be attacked for being bigoted if they do. But there's so many people that are like on the fence and scared and don't know what to do, and their kids are coming home with these wacky ideas and they're like, what the fuck do I do? What do I do? And if you try to go to the school board meetings, you get labeled a domestic terrorist.
Yeah. This is insanity. You're just enforcing indoctrination and you're just making sure that I comply. And that is a slippery slope, kids, because you might be getting your way right now doing this and you might think that you should be able to get your way. But what if someone else gets into office?
What if there's a war? What if there's chaos? What if we have a military dictatorship? You've already established the rules. No one's going to give you those laws back.
You've already set it so that the state and the government and the institutions can dictate personal behavior and how people are allowed to communicate. If you've done that, you've fucked up, because now you've given power to the people that are in control. And if you pay any attention to donors, you realize that the same donors donate to both people. So what have you done? You've empowered the deep state to control your lives and make it easier to steal your money.
Yeah. And the economics of it is also perilous, right? All of these systems are functionally insolvent, right? University system, our federal budget.
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