JRE MMA Show #157 with Craig Jones
2024-05-28 02:09:40
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What's going on? I like the one ear side. That's professional, a lot of guys do that.
Help my hearing, hey, it's fading in my old age.
Do you have fucked up ears because of the cauliflower? Does it fuck up your hearing?
Yeah, just one of them. I thought it was cool until the inner ear started to swell and it was messing with my hearing. I was like, that's not cool anymore.
Did you get it fixed?
I just face it at the women I'm talking to.
Did you get it fixed?
It eventually drained out, but it's as good as it's going to get, I think.
I always wore ear guards. I was always scared of the ears. There's a design. It helps capture sound and bring it into your ear.
I didn't know the AirPods were coming. I threw a curveball on how cool this was.
You can't stuff them in there.
I jam them in, but they pop back out.
Yeah, you've got to wear over the ears.
Let's talk about your tournament.
The tournament, all right.
Where did this come from, first of all? You've competed at Abu Dhabi. This is what I don't understand.
You're going to go head-to-head with ADCC, which is the biggest grappling organization in the world. By the way, that's Gordon Ryan's belt up there, if you want to look at it. Gordon Ryan.
I might take that home with me. I reckon I've got the money to buy it.
What started it? Obviously, you can't win a tournament. You put your own tournament on that you can win and probably lose anyway.
Really, it's for the growth of the sport. We're getting some beef involved, some Tupac, Biggie, Drake, Kendrick, energy to this, but really to compensate the athletes well and to raise some money for charity along the way.
Who's funding this thing?
That's one of those things. Your girl takes a trip to the UAE. She comes back with a handbag. You don't talk about it. You don't ask too many questions.
You brought with you a million dollars in cash, which I've never seen before. I've never seen a million dollars in one place. I've never even seen a million-dollar check. Should we tip this out? Yeah, I guess tip it out.
Make sure we don't spill any.
Ladies and gentlemen, that is one million dollars in cash.
That is so ridiculous. Look at that. That's so crazy.
Wow.
Whoever is running. this really trusts you. They should. Those are loose. A lot of these are just kind of flying around.
Flopping around here, you know. That's a lot of money. You have way too much faith in me.
Yeah, a lot of faith in you.
I mean, this was the proof. I had the idea. I was like, I'll bring a prop million dollars on Joe Rogan. I was thinking then, they already don't believe I have the money, so if I pulled out a prop million and you were like, oh, that's fake money, then I'm like, oh, my tournament's fucked. We had to do some bad things for that.
How does one even get a million dollars out of a bank? That's got to be a pain in the ass, right?
Yeah, so my buddy that's helping me out with this basically called his bank. He said, I need a million dollars. on Thursday. They said, yo, that takes two to three weeks. He's like, get me the million on Thursday or I'll find a bank that can.
That put the energy in him to get it. Here we are.
What does this guy do? that he has all this loot?
I really don't want to say. I'm going to keep it all directed at me. It's all above board, legal, but we're sort of keeping it mysterious. I want any negative energy towards the tournament come in my direction, not the anonymous sugar daddy in the background.
Okay, so you don't want to say what the business is? Does the business profit off of this at all? Does this benefit the business to do this?
We're running it as a non-profit. Obviously, for people that want to support the sport of jiu-jitsu, we're going to donate all the ticket sales of this event towards different charities. We really want to do this as a non-profit because my thoughts were, if jiu-jitsu doesn't make a profit, we might as well make a non-profit. Okay.
Does jiu-jitsu make no profit? Abu Dhabi doesn't turn a profit, right? It's done primarily because of the Sheikh's love of the sport.
It's like a passion project. My problem with the latest event is we're selling so many tickets. Their event is in T-Mobile. T-Mobile is super expensive. As far as I know, I remember, their event organizer posted the amount they paid for T-Mobile.
It was basically two of these.
Just to rent out the venue? Just to rent out. You were at the Thomas & Mac?
The previous event, they were at Thomas & Mac, so I just thought, hey, I might as well check how much Thomas & Mac costs. It was a lot cheaper. In my opinion, we're really doing this because the prize money has been the same for so long. A lot of events don't pay a lot of money, but obviously ADCC is the biggest. This sells a lot of ticket sales, but really, they made a lateral move in the venue that didn't really grow much in the way of seeding.
How much does Thomas & Mac seed?
I think we'll have about 11,000 seeds for this one.
And T-Mobile is, what, 18?
Not a massive difference. Really, ADCC prize money stayed the same. You have to win four matches to get 10k. Not that I'd know, because I could never win it, but we're going to do two divisions and pay 100 times that amount of money to the division winners.
10k is the winner of ADCC?
We're going to pay $10,001 to show up to that tournament.
$10,001?
That's for me personally.
Anybody who competes gets $10,000?
. Really? Even if you just get smoked?
I'm thinking of the other guys like me in these tournaments that don't make the final. Compensate everyone, you know?
Well, that is nice, but ADCC has never made money, right? So for them, raising the money would just be losing more money.
Yeah. But if you could sell 11,000 seeds, you know what I mean? If you could sell streaming rights to an event, I feel like some of that should go back towards the athletes rather than just spending it all on production. A lot of people talk about the cost of production and it's important to grow a sport, but I really feel like at least the athlete compensation should go up a little bit. In terms of ticket sales, some of that should go back.
towards the athletes. Even if the ADCC is not making any money at all?
But in terms of they do make money, but it's where they spend it. They choose to spend it on production rather than the athletes.
Right, but it's not profitable in terms of the organization itself. It's not really profitable, I don't believe.
I would imagine if they chose Thomas & Mac, with the streaming rights and the cost of the venue that they've spent on T-Mobile, for sure they would have made a profit off this event. You could curtail production costs down. It's not going to be that crazy if you choose the right venue. My opinion is Grappling's amazing, but I don't think we're ready for T-Mobile. That's a massive, expensive venue.
The Thomas & Mac was very impressive last year. It was very impressive, the whole overall production and just the scope of it and the amount of fans that came out to watch ADCC. It was pretty impressive.
It's crazy, yeah. It's crazy. I've never competed in front of that many people before. It was awesome. It was an awesome spectacle.
That was basically my opinion. It's like, why are we making a lateral move, in my opinion, when we could still keep the same venue?
What was the idea about going head-to-head with ADCC? If you want to grow the sport, wouldn't it be better to do it in an alternative weekend? That way, the people that compete at ADCC can also compete at your event?
We kind of.
. Obviously, athletes can't do both, but in terms of the fans, the fans will be able to go to our event Friday, Saturday, still see ADCC finals on Sunday. But in terms of doing it at the same weekend, we're really trying to make a stand that the athletes can unify in this sense and we can get compensated better. Because again, none of the athletes care where we compete. You know what I mean?
As the sport grows, grappling's growing, obviously, thanks to people like you. You've blown it up. Whenever you shout us out, our followers go up. The events are getting more eyes on it. People are...
more ticket sales. We should get at least some token gesture of a payment increase.
Well, I think the best case scenario out of this is that ADCC does ramp it up and that the sport does get more eyeballs because people are aware of this huge increase in pay. I always feel that competition is good. I just don't necessarily like the idea of going head-to-head, because I feel like it just kind of messes with the athletes, because it puts them in a situation where they have to choose first of all between ADCC and the Craig Jones Invitational. And if they do, that, ADCC's going to probably hold a grudge.
I mean, hopefully, not. Hopefully they won't.
But likely they will. I mean, doesn't it make sense that they would? I mean, if you're kind of crippling their organization by taking the elite guys and offering them potential for... How many people are going to jump ship?
Do you know? I mean, who? have we got confirmed already? We've got Fion Davies, past champion. The Tackett brothers were the first two.
We've got Nicky Ryan. I'm going to announce today. Nicky Rod's jumping across. We've got Luke Rockhold in there. We threw him in because he's just...
He tapped me out in the gym. I was like, fuck it, we'll throw him in. In terms of the under, we've got Joseph Chen. So I mean, a lot of people are going to make the move. And what's interesting to me, I can't say any names in particular, but a lot of the old legends obviously want to be a part of this event, I think they believe.
They want to support the cause. And you say, make the athletes make a choice. I mean, really they should be able to make the choice. if there's an event with such a huge amount of prize money on display. You know, the argument is prestige versus prize money.
And my argument is, if the prize money is there, that becomes the most prestigious event.
Yeah, it does ramp up the prestige, but will this happen again? Is this a one-time thing? Or are you guys planning on doing multiple ones of these?
Yeah, we want to do it. ADCC every two years. So most of the time, the guys have to wait every two. We want to do it every year.
Well, that would be good. Then there'd be a year where it's not in competition. We don't want to just.
kill another organization and then I just disappear off into the sunset. Maybe sneak a couple million, but we want to do it every year, for sure. The goal is really to raise money for charities and do some film projects around the world, using jiu-jitsu, really, helping out some underprivileged kids.
and stuff. Well, the whole idea of using it for charity is beautiful. That's amazing. But is this guy willing to fork up this kind of, like, does he have a commitment to do this? more than once?
I mean, basically.
he says, if, hey, we do a good job of this one, you can do it every year. He's super invested in the sport of jiu-jitsu, loves it.
And this guy's just throwing loot away.
Throwing a lot of loot away. Thank God.
That's a crazy thing to commit to, though. I mean, even, no matter how rich you are. I mean, because if you're giving away $3 million in prize money, is that what it is? So how's it go all together?
We basically got a budget of $3 million and we decided to give $2.
3 million of that to the athletes, and the rest we're going to spend on production. Obviously, we're going to have sponsors come in. We're going to work with particular sponsors, but we're going to again, the ticket sales, that's going to charity, and we're really allowing some of the athletes to choose. Like, if we have an influential grappler and stuff, we're not really trying to leverage the money we have. We're saying, hey, if we get you on board, we're happy to donate a percentage of the ticket sales to a charity of your choice.
So we give them a bit of freedom in who they want to help. Well, that's nice.
And if this does go well, like, what is, what's the, when you say go well, like, what are the guidelines? What are we trying to achieve in terms of, like, going well to do this again?
I mean, based on the investment and how much money we can raise for charity is really the goal there. Like, if we can sell out Thomas and Mac and we can demonstrate that we can do this in a cost-effective way, we can bring in more sponsors, definitely going to keep doing this every year.
Well, like I said, I think competition is always great, and I think just more eyeballs and more people paying attention to it is great for the sport. Obviously, I love jiu-jitsu, and I think, you know, the athletes getting paid a million dollars to win first place is fantastic. I mean, because, you know, we both know that most athletes don't make much money off of actual competition. The money that they do make, they usually make in seminars.
and.
. Holy fans.
Yeah, holy, that's you.
Yeah, that's a lot of underwear I have to sell,
you know. Holy fans, and what else? I guess.
DVDs. Yeah, I mean, that's the number one revenue source for athletes would be instructionals, but, like, again, that's, like, you can win the biggest tournaments in the world. It doesn't necessarily translate to seminars. It doesn't translate to instructionals. That's the sad thing.
It's like you hold certain events so high that you're like, when I win that, I'm going to make it. But then there'll be some arsehole like me that never won, but outsells you. It doesn't make... You know what I mean? It's like it's not...
Your life's not set if you win one of these events, but if you win a million as a grappler, you're pretty well set up, especially if you're, like, a grappler from a poorer country. Like, a million U.S. and Brazil is going to go a long, long way. And also,
it's just going to elevate the whole profile of the sport, just people knowing that a million dollars is going towards the first place, grapplers. And then, like, has UFC Fight Pass had a positive impact? Has that helped at all?
For sure. I mean, obviously, it helps so much. Like, my dream's always taking on MMA guys, you know? Like, they got the clout, they got the big name. So, obviously, UFC Fight Pass helped that happen, but, I mean, Techi's put a lot of work into the Fight Pass events, and those are very, very popular.
I think that would be the pinnacle of, sort of, professional superfight events.
And what is, like.
. Like, if you fight in UFC Fight Pass, like, what is a big payday at UFC Fight Pass?
I know some of the athletes might get.
. I don't even know how I should say it. Techi will probably kill me, but I mean, it's broad. Like, I could go from 10 to 6 figures, really. And, again, that's...
I mean, that's the thing. When you compete for an event like a tournament, you might face four guys. Like, for me, personally, I might face four guys that I could have made much more money, facing off in a superfight setting. Right. So, really, like, in terms of the investment, the commitment, the training, the time to prepare for potentially four opponents to win something like $10,000, when if I just had four superfights.
Right. It would make so much more money. Obviously, I wouldn't get the medal.
And the amount of money that you're going to spend in camp anyway, just with nutrition,
supplements.
. Steroids,
the damage you do to your body.
. All the jabs. Everything. Everything. I mean, you're spending $10,000 anyway.
Yeah, your blood pressure.
goes up, your liver values go up, you redline it for a thing like ADCC. Well, that is the craziest.
thing about the sport, is that steroids are openly tolerated. It's probably the only elite professional sport where, particularly because of Gordon, because Gordon's been so open about steroids, that everyone knows that the athletes are on juice. Well, I'm.
sponsored by a local company called Evertone. This is the sad thing. I tell people, hey, I'm on TRT, and I'm sponsored by them, and no one believes me. They're like, you look so out of shape, there's no way. He's just joking.
And I'm like, no, believe me, I'm taking steroids. Do you lift weights? I mean, sometimes, yeah. Sometimes? Every now and then?
Yeah. Honestly, I'm the worst example of athlete ever. I don't stretch, don't do any recovery, I don't sleep properly. You don't stretch at all? No.
I just go easy. the first round. I feel like them pushing on my legs. It's like hip mobility. I think.
if you get a bad injury, that's a sign. Maybe it's time to hang it up, you know?
So, when you train, all you do is just jiu-jitsu? I do a little.
bit of lifting, but man, I don't even track anything. I'll just be like, oh, that seems like enough lifting for today. Really? Yeah, that's it.
Do you ever wonder if you?
did hire a serious strength and conditioning coach and really get after it, it would make a difference in your performance?
Maybe, but I mean, if it was millions of dollars on the line, maybe, but that's a lot of fucking work.
But it's your whole life. I mean, you're a professional jiu-jitsu guy.
I mean, I love the technique and the strategy aspect of it, you know? Sometimes when I've lifted or taken more steroids than usual, it's like I'm starting to overly rely on my strength. What I love about jiu-jitsu is laying traps, tricking people, making people feel silly. That's the part I like. Right.
Rather than just. I want to look jacked just for me,
not for the match. But don't you think, even with the laying traps and just overall, your ability to move would be enhanced?
It's true, but if I look too jacked and I want to buy the instructions, I'd be like, I can't fucking do what that guy does. You know? I've got to look like a weathered old man out there.
Wow. That's a crazy approach.
We've got another announcement here today. Another one? The biggest superfight in grappling history. We signed it, actually. I signed this maybe an hour and a half ago.
So I got the contract date approved. Okay. Yeah.
Bust it out. Uh-oh. The biggest superfight in grappling history? Really?
Yeah, it might be one of the biggest.
events in sporting history. What is the biggest so far? It's probably Gordon and Galvao.
Yeah, Gordon Galvao, Hojibu Shesha. But now we're talking. the most decorated female athlete of all time, Gabby Garcia, has put pen to paper to face me on my own event. So we're talking 10-11 time world champion, four-time ADCC.
champion. You have been joking around about this forever. This is actually going to happen?
100% going to happen. We signed this contract earlier, so I had to do a lot of things to get it done, you know? What did you have to do? I had to talk to Gabby a lot. I had to go over there, give her.
a back rub. Did you have to dance with her?
Getting this done, she's like Harvey Weinstein producing, you know? But I'll do it for the fans. But we got that booked.
So that's really going to happen?
Yeah, she's 6'4", 250 pounds. I don't know what she weighs. So I'll take her on. Wow. I feel good.
I probably won't train for it. I'll be planning this damn event. You won't train? I wouldn't train that hard.
I'm happy she's doing it, though. It took a long time. We've been talking about this for two and a half years. Feels like an arranged marriage or something.
I know. I was always thinking that it was just
a joke. I know. We've got to get rid of the sexual tension somehow,
but if I lose, I have to do some things. Maybe sell that on her OnlyFans.
Good luck.
So, when this all goes down, are you going to stream it live? How are you going to do that? Free on YouTube.
Really? Yeah, we want to put it free on YouTube. Everything I want to do about this event is to grow the sport. Jiu-Jitsu scoring is confusing. It's hard to keep up.
Some events don't even know their own scoring. And, to be honest, I compete in events where I don't even know the rules. I'm just hoping for the best. But this one, we're going to do for the lead-up matches, the non-finals, qualifying matches, three-by-five-minute rounds. And we're going to have the judges score according to your traditional Jiu-Jitsu.
If you get a good position, it might be a four-point discrepancy, something like that.
Are you using a specific rule set, or are you guys making your own?
Making our own one. We want to make it our own completely. So we want to take what Jiu-Jitsu guys already know. So we'll have three judges. use some sort of pre-existing point system.
they understand, but we'll have the judges translate into a ten-point-mile system so that MMA fans will understand. So say, if there's a... After round one, the guy finishes on the other guy's back. The ref stops him. We get up.
We have a minute break. That's a strong position. We'll score that at ten-eighth. And we'll do open scoring. So Jiu-Jitsu guys are used to knowing the score as the match progresses.
They don't like the surprises. Like MMA, it's surprise at the end. Jiu-Jitsu guys, they don't want things to be too different. So we're basically keeping it very similar to what they already understand, while trying to introduce it in a way that's friendly to fans that tune in. Because fans that tune in will be like, what the fuck's happening?
You won the round, ten-eighth.
I wish that MMA had open scoring, because it would expose a lot of really bad scoring.
Yeah, you know where you're at.
Because there's so many times where it's just not.
. And the argument against it, I think, is silly, because the argument against it is that the person would coast if they were ahead. But my feeling is that would make the person who's behind really get after it. Because they know they're behind. And then in fights where you know a guy's ahead and the guy's getting tooled up, that's already the case.
There's no.
. If Adesanya's fighting somebody and he's just dominating the fight, we all know that. And the only thing that could fuck him is a bad judge.
Some crazy judge.
And we've seen that. We've seen two scores that are like, that's right. And then one score, one judge is like, what the fuck was that guy watching?
That's the guy we're going to hire for our event.
That guy's going to be cheap.
Why? That guy's going to be dangerous. Why ten-eighth? I don't even like ten-eighth for MMA. I think it sucks.
I mean, just for a way that we can grow, like. we can have an easy to digest... I mean, I guess MMA's still pretty confusing, but we want an MMA fan. We want to steal MMA fans. My whole strategy is I'll take on guys in the UFC because I know they're drug tested and I'm not.
And I'll be like, and they're famous. It's like a perfect matchup. But we want to do that because we want to steal their fans. And we're also changing... It's very fucking expensive, actually.
Every jujitsu event's basically on an elevated stage or just on mats. And we have this problem where there's all these weird resets. Like guys might fall off the stage. They crash into the table. That's crazy.
So, inspired by karate combat, we're going to do a rectangular mat space with an angled wall. Because there's nowhere to run. And we're going to call this rectangular mat space the alley. You basically only head to the back alley to fight or fuck.
But isn't the angled wall a bit of a problem? I saw your match with Phil Bro. Yeah. And the angled wall, all of a sudden he's fucked. Because you're just going to go down.
It's not like a wall. I don't like the cage. in MMA. I've said multiple times. I really think they should be fighting in a basketball court.
Just make it all matted up. Have a long red line. We're going to bring it back.
30 by 40.
. It's going to be massive. That is big. So we heard the basketball court, but we threw some angles on the end. But it punishes them.
We want to punish guys for backing up. So again, like you said with the cage, they back up, but they remain vertical. You can use that angle to not get taken down. But if you back up, if you're running away, we want it to be detrimental to you, while not having any referee interruption. So if I'm, like you said, I see I won the first round 10-8, I'm coasting, I'm backing up.
That guy can chase me and there's nowhere I can go. And if I back up, it's detrimental to me.
I want to ask you a specific question about the Phil Bro fight. Because he posted his arm down against the angle. And I was like, well, you're kind of fucked. If you're doing that. And then you threw up the triangle.
And you trapped him. Did you train for that? So this is the setup. And this is in Karate Combat, which is, by the way, in Austin this Thursday. I'm going to go check that out.
So, like this. When he posted his arm down, I'm like, oh no.
Honestly, here's the funny thing about it. Our center promoter said to me, we've got to sell the angled wall for grappling. He's like, can you try to submit him off the wall? And I was like, fuck yeah, I'll do that. I was like, I've got no plans of that.
Did they ask you to do it?
They said that'd be cool if he could do it. And then afterwards, he's like, did you plan that? I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, anytime someone posts a hand on the ground and we have an overhook. And we can put weight on that hand.
They can't lift it off the ground, so we can shoot a triangle pretty easy. As soon as I saw him, I've got an overhook here. We've got the Russian tire. As soon as I see him put that right hand on the floor, I was like, we can do something flying. And I saw, because of the angle, you can be a bit more brave.
It's not as sharp a fall. I'm 32.. I probably shouldn't be doing flying shit. But you throw an angle in there, I'll give it a crack.
Well, especially with everything padded up like that on the walls.
Yeah. But man, me and Phil were laughing before this match. I had a couple beers before this. I thought we were just going to have a good time.
You had a couple beers before the match?
Yeah, Phil said he was going to drink a tequila shot to start the match. But then I saw him put water in his cup. I was like, I've been misled here. And then we went out there. I didn't even know the time of the match.
I thought it was eight minutes. And the guy's like, oh, a 12-minute match. I'm like, oh, fuck. And then his coach started cornering him. serious.
I was like, what have I got myself into, eh? So I was like, better give it a crack. I thought we were going to have fun, play around a bit. But he was ready to go.
You really had a couple beers?
Yeah, I do. sometimes. Do you really? Take the edge off, yeah.
Does it fuck with your performance at all?
You know what? I never know what helps my performance or makes it worse.
Taking the edge off might help.
I think so. Because I do a long training camp. Sometimes I'm thinking every day, putting pressure on myself. But I finished that match. And because I hit a flying thing, we just got hammered.
that night. I was celebrating. And then the next day I was like, fuck, I have to face Lovato next week. I was like, what have I done? So it's like sometimes, I guess the Jon Jones approach.
Having some fun the week before takes the edge off. Relaxes me.
Ilya Taporia does that too.
He gets drunk on Thursday night.
When he weighs in on Friday.
I don't like what he did to my man. But I respect the drinking of the wine for sure.
Yeah. That fight. I wanted to talk to you about that too. I wanted to talk to you about the Volkanovski fight. And training him in general.
Did you try in any way to discourage him from taking the Makachev fight on 10 days notice?
No, I'm not involved in that process at all. I got the call that it was happening. He called me. I was jet lagged at the time. I had just gotten to Austin for a day.
And I get a call at 4am from Volks. He's like, I think I have Makachev booked in two weeks. And I was like, fuck it. Tell me, I'll just book the next flight. I just got on the plane down there.
So I'm not involved in the matchmaking decision process at all.
Were you apprehensive about him taking that fight on such short notice?
I mean, I wouldn't say apprehensive. I believe in him fully. I knew it would be a very difficult challenge. I didn't know what sort of shape he was in at the time. I hadn't seen him for a while.
But I believe in him that he can do it. And it's like, I'm going to just do everything I can to get him ready for that moment. And yeah, I mean, it is the risk of the game. Especially you take a short notice fight like that.
Had he been training at all?
I honestly don't know. I don't think he... He wasn't in the same shape he was for the previous Makachev fight. The previous Makachev fight, I was down in Wollongong with his team. I was down in Wollongong freestyle for like 6-8 weeks helping him prepare for that one.
But I mean, this one, yeah, such short notice.
Well, that made such a huge difference. The 6-8 weeks. Just the fact that he was able to survive on the ground the way he was. And not just that, but... Not just survive, but be completely safe.
He was never even close to being threatened with a submission. And the fact that he was laughing it off and punching him from behind.
It's crazy, yeah. I mean, I can't take too much credit for that. The guy just is a beast. He's an animal. Yeah, he's just a monster.
He's so hard to hold down, even for me to hold down. I don't get it. I'm like, fuck, you're 145.. This shouldn't be the case.
Rugby.
He has some rugby energy, hey.
But also, he used to weigh 214 pounds and he still got those fucking tendons from being a big gorilla.
That's true, yeah. The rugby days, that's crazy. I mean, when I trained at his gym, one of the rugby players come in actually. And I was just fucking around rolling with him. And he put me in a chin strap and I was stuck.
I was like, fuck, thank god these guys make real money in other sports. I don't have to deal with this shit.
Yeah, it's a hard fucking sport, man. It's a hard sport that Americans don't necessarily appreciate. They don't understand. Those are guys that could compete in the NFL. They said they're playing rugby because they live in a different country.
But when Volkanovsky fought the first time, and he was perfectly prepared, it was an amazing fight. I thought he won. I thought it was very close. But I thought he won. I think round two was the difference.
And I could see round two going either way. But I gave it to Volkanovsky. I gave it to Volk. But I was like, when they announced it, the rematch, part of me was like, ooh, that's a great fight. But the other part of me was like, eee, this is the number one, in my opinion, this is the fight for number one, pound for pound.
I believe Volk won the first fight, although very close. I don't think it was a robbery, but very close. And I think that puts him as the number one pound for pound fighter in the world. And then he loses the fight to Islam. He gets caught with that head kick.
And then he gets knocked out by Taporia. And now he's not even in the conversation anymore. So this is a short amount of time, and then everything kind of falls apart. And I think it wouldn't have fallen apart if not for the rematch. If he just waited for Taporia, I think, I kind of think that head kick has a factor.
I mean, to get brained like that, with a shin to the dome, which is the worst way to get knocked out. It's so much power in legs. I mean, your legs are, you're carrying, your legs, are carrying your body around all day. I don't think people that have never been kicked understand how much more power is in a leg.
Yeah, I wouldn't know.
You get head kicked like that, and then you fight a guy who's obviously the most dangerous boxer in the division in the next fight. And get KO'd.
I mean, yeah, it's crazy. I've had a couple concussions from grappling, like accidents.
Knees and headbutts.
Always that one asshole, you know, going crazy, but I don't know really the effects of that. It's so hard to judge. It's like, I don't know what testing they can do, but it's like...
They can't do much, unfortunately. There are some tests, but the reality is, every time you get knocked out, it's easier for that person to get knocked out again.
And psychologically, I think, for the opponents. For me, coaching VOLGs, there were matches where the fights went like, say, Ortega got him in the sub. And it's like, when he keeps doing these impossible things, you believe in the myth of your guy more and more. And other fighters do, too. They go, we couldn't submit him.
Look how deep Ortega was.
His heart is just unstoppable.
But I think when a guy gets clipped like that, everyone else goes.
. They suddenly have a bit more self-belief. It's like two factors.
Yeah, I think you're probably right. But I think Taporia thought he was going to do that to him anyway. But I would just love to have seen him fully recover. Like when Manny Pacquiao got knocked out by Marquez, Freddie Roach wouldn't let him do anything for a year. He was like, you're going to take one year off.
He was like, this is the only way. And Freddie Roach, who has trauma-induced Parkinson's from his boxing career, he's well aware of the impact of brain damage. you know, it's so tricky because I'm just such a huge VOLG fan. I just look... I wish I had his ear.
I don't know if you would have listened to me. But if I had.
his ear.
. I think that's what makes those guys special, though, is that they're like, it's the self-belief.
100%? That's what makes you a champion. You cannot become a Volkanovski without this unstoppable.
belief in yourself. Me and him are the complete opposite. If someone was like, bro, you're probably going to lose. I'm like, yeah, you make a good point. I'm like, how much are they paying me?
You know? We're complete opposite in everything. He takes everything super serious. Sporting, everything. I don't know how we've blended together.
I'm able to.
coach him somehow. Well, you're very technical. I mean, the thing about your, you know, joking around and being silly about it. all, it's like, you are, but your technique is very, very good, obviously. You obviously are one of the elite guys in the world when it comes to technique.
So it's not.
. you are serious.
Yeah, I mean, personality type, you know? Yeah. But I guess we have the Australian bond. He has faith in me. More faith in me than the guy that gave me this, I think.
They both probably should. What is Volk up to now? Do you talk to him? I think he's in.
Thailand training at Bang Tao with his Volk's wrestling coach, Frank Hickman. They have a gym in Thailand, so he's out in Bang Tao getting some work in. I want to get him a grappling match. I said to him, I said, man, like, if we're going to take some time away because of the concussions, let's get you a grappling match. And my thought was, how cool would it be to see him and Ortega have a grappling?
match? Oh my god, that would be incredible.
I would just love to see it in that setting, because Ortega, obviously, struggles to submit him in MMA. Yeah. Let's see what happens in a grappling.
match. Right, with no gloves, too. Yeah, that would be very interesting. Ortega's very good on the ground. He's very sneaky, too.
Yeah, he's super slick. He catches some crazy shit out there. He'd be losing a fight, like, two, three rounds, get one. look at a guillotine.
It's crazy. No, and his guillotine is fucking deaf. I mean, when Volkanovski got out of that, the mounted guillotine, his face looked like a grape and just would not tap.
I had no idea how he got out, but I told everyone, I was like, yeah, obviously, that's me. Buy the DVD. Support his grappling coach. I take credit for that.
He's an animal. 99.9% of the world would have.
tapped. He's like that in the gym. I remember I would choke him in the gym sometimes, and he'll go from putting his chin in to taking it out. As your grip's in there, he'll try and switch it from, I guess, the front choke to the blood vessels. He just changes how you choke him and can survive down there.
Wow. I don't know how he does it. He should teach me.
that shit. I think it's just his brain.
Yeah, too tough.
Yeah, he's a fucking animal. And so, does he have a plan to come back? Does he? I don't.
I don't know what's going on. I imagine it's probably Holloway versus Teporia. I think that's going to happen. I hope so. I hope personally.
we get Volk's grappling match. Maybe we get him at this event. I'm hoping we get some MMA guys at this event.
Is he thinking about doing something like that? You guys don't have a whole lot of time, right? When is this event? This is August 16th,
17th. Yeah, so not much time. But, I mean, if he's in shape, he's trained, he's out of Bangtown, Thailand, get some rounds in, I think it's fine. Especially against another MMA guy. They both have the same type of training.
It's not like he's taking on a pure grappler, that's only grappling. So, do you.
have a budget to do something like that? To do super fights as well? Actually,
yeah. So, we're going to start taking sponsors to try and get more super fights. And I'm in talks with some legends of the game right now. Some guys, that you'd be shocked. Can you say any names?
I wouldn't say any names, but potentially I'll tell you. Can you make the names rhyme?
One of them has a Mexican-sounding last name, but I'll talk to you about that. Okay. I know that one. Yeah. All the legends.
So many people want to come out of retirement for this. I think they just know. Especially when I explain the rules, explain that it's in that alley, like the sunken floor. They like that format. Obviously, you throw a million dollars into Instagram, you get some messages.
You know what I mean? You get some, hey brother, what's going on? Yeah, I think people.
are going to be shocked at how good Luke Rockhold.
is. Yeah, he's so tough. He's very good on the ground.
I remember when he got Weidman down and mounted him and Weidman could not get up. His ground. game is very underrated. He's just known as an MMA guy.
He's going to come train with us. He's going to come to B-Team for five weeks. So he's going to prepare with us for this event. So we'll watch him and Nicky Rod kill each other every day. I'll love to watch that shit.
Wow.
Yeah. I always wondered how he would have done if he had gone straight grappling. Because the people that I know that train with him said, dude, I think he could have competed with the best in the world as a grappler, just as a pure grappler. Yeah.
Look at the guys he's training with, Khabib and Islam, Cain, Velasquez, DC, all those guys. People think it's like MMA is in isolation, like those, skills won't translate. They translate, especially with athletes like that.
Especially in such a grappling dominated camp. He's going to surprise.
some people. What I keep laughing about is like, it's a million dollars for first place, $10,000 for second place. I'm like, who's tapping? Right, for a million dollars. Yeah.
I think what we're going to do, I haven't finalized this yet, but I think if you're in a submission and the round ends, we keep going. Get out of the submission. Well, there's been.
so many times where guys were almost submitted where you.
think.
. Yeah, this guy. I let him out of that armbar to join the team. Look at him. I didn't get any money out.
of that. How bad was his arm fucked up after that? That armbar was so tight. Well, that was the funny thing, right? That was EBI.
What's the prize of EBI?
Well, he had some.
. If I had submitted him, I would have won $15,000.. I think he had only had two submissions in regulation, so he only made $10,000.. I'm like, we could have made a business deal there. Just let it go.
Man, his arm popped on the day. He said it was fine. Next week, I show up. We're both competing in another event again, and there was like three, four locker rooms. I would just travel by myself.
I wouldn't even have a coach. I just post an Instagram story, who can corner me for this event? Against Gordon, I had Denny Prokopos, and he was saying 10th Planet stuff to me, and I didn't even know what language he was speaking in the corner there. Oh, right. So I was confused.
Crackhead control. Yeah. He's saying, do these things. I'm like, what's happening, bro? And then I show up to this next event, Kasai Grappling in New York, and of all the locker rooms, they throw me in there with the Danaher guys, and I'm just like, this is a bit weird.
I had this going on about last week, then he choked me, and now it's just me in a locker room with him. It was very awkward, but then broke the ice, and I came in the train the next week.
And you were with them for a long time. You were with them for like, what, five years?
With Danaher? Two years. Two years.
So did it start before Puerto.
Rico? Yes. Yeah, I lived in New York for, oh, I mean, man, my memory's hazy, but we did, we survived Puerto Rico for six months, and before that was, I would come and go from New York. I was probably with the team two and a half years. But yeah, things get weird out there in the jungle, you know?
Yeah. Bucklips down style.
Well, everyone's confused as to what happened with you guys. That's what, like, there's no real version of the truth.
We got a book deal. We got a movie deal coming out, you know? I'm gonna exploit that story to the bitter end.
You have a book deal? For real? Nah, I'm joking.
But I could. The story's weird enough, you know?
What happened with you guys?
I mean, there's so many things we really can't discuss, you know? A lot of problems, obviously. Obviously, two brothers split up. There's gonna be some serious issues there. But yeah, it's not really my place to say, but hopefully, one day it comes out, I think it'll be an interesting story.
Who knows? This shit might kick things off. It might be.
World War III again. So when you left, did you leave to start your own place? When you guys started B-Team, was that the?
plan all along? Nah, I honestly never even wanted to start a gym. I'd already told the guys at Danaher's that I was like, hey, this'll be my last ADCC, and then I just wanna travel around, see the world, visit interesting destinations, teach seminars. I felt like I'd already built a brand. But then, when the team split, I felt like I sorta wanted to help them kickstart something.
So we came here. We started the B-Team. I've been with the B-Team. We've had the B-Team two, three years, but I'm not there too much anymore. I helped kickstart it.
We got the gym. The guys have it. So I like traveling around.
So are you basically semi-retired?
For sure, yeah. For sure. I mean, obviously, when you put on, like, if you put on an event that pisses off every other promotion in the sport, it's gonna probably be hard to get matches in the future, so I'll probably compete for my own show, and that's it. That's the plan. We wanna keep doing these shows.
Well, I think you're gonna piss off ADCC, for sure, by going head-to-head with them, but I don't think it would piss off Fight Pass.
or who's number one. Do you think? Well, I mean, if whoever's streaming ADCC's obviously not gonna be happy. There's always more competition. But again, I still think long-term this story is gonna grow the sport.
It's an interesting story. It's fun. Let's see what happens. It'll either be the best event ever or the Fyre Festival. I'm hoping for the former.
The Fyre Festival.
Are you, besides the Gabby Garcia thing, which is, you know, no disrespect, kind of a gimmick fight. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Are you done competing? I'll probably do.
another match. That's Gabby. Gabby will be one day. If someone's down, I'll do a match on the other day as well. We'll see.
But I also wanna leave it open because I am talking to some crazy big names. And I'm like, man, if we can put that together, like, I'm gonna try and save some space. But like, obviously I have to run this thing. I wish you could.
tell me some of those names on the air.
It's everyone you could possibly think of. I'll tell you after. Really? There's a potential matchup that I'm working on. that's insane.
It'll be the craziest shit ever. Really? Crazy, yeah. You wanna tell.
me now and we'll cut it out? Yeah.
Can we do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm working on...
Holy shit. Sorry, folks. You can't know. Damn. That would be insane.
That would be insane. Wow. Is the former, is he training? Training, yep.
People have said, man, he feels good. It'd be like obviously a crazy inspirational story. I'd love it. Wow.
Yeah. That's insane. It's insane to, you know, and then it's like Abu Dhabi for a lot of people is the Olympics of grappling. One of the things is it's every two years. I mean, I remember when John Jacques won Abu.
Dhabi. You know, I had just started, I think this was like, what year was this? When he started training, when he fought in Abu Dhabi. Early?
2000s or mid-2000s? Yeah.
I was thinking I was like a blue belt at the time, and when John Jacques went over there, we were just so proud that he went over there. He had this advantage over a lot of the Gi guys in that he only has one hand and so he never relied on grabbing collars. Everything was over hooks and under hooks. He had sort of already developed a no-Gi game that he was applying to the Gi. Obviously, he could do all the Gi techniques as well, but he was more of a no-Gi guy in the beginning and it was so interesting watching that style.
You know, watching no-Gi, which is, if Abu Dhabi didn't do that and if they didn't have this prestigious event and make it no-Gi, I think the sport would have really struggled, because it's so hard for people to appreciate what's going on with the Gi. It's very slow and when you see a guy getting choked by a collar, it's just... It looks silly too.
Yeah. But yeah, man, I'm so happy Abu Dhabi exists. I think the inspiration for me to do ADCC was Stuart Cooper's highlight reels. Like when I was coming up, like 2009,, 2011,, CM Browley, Andre Galvao's runs, like that inspired me. Losing in the Gi more than no-Gi also inspired me to chase the no-Gi dreams, but like I'm following in Eddie Bravo's footsteps.
We both did. ADCC, couldn't win it. We have our own Invitational, but yeah, I'm thankful for everything they've done. I still obviously love ADCC. I wouldn't have a career as big as it is without ADCC.
But do you feel?
any loyalty to ADCC? You're kind of fucking them, right?
I mean, I feel loyalty to the athletes. I think, for what we do and how much bigger the sport is now, we should be compensated better, you know? And that's sort of why I've taken a massive risk in doing this. I appreciate.
what you're saying, but if ADCC is not turning a profit, like the idea of compensating the athletes more, I mean, they have essentially made stars out of so many of these athletes and because of that, by the fact of that, they've.
profited. But therein lies the argument, and the argument is that I believe an event of that magnitude should turn a profit. I'm going to do it myself and see. Obviously, I could be wrong, but based on the production and the things we've paid for thus far, I don't see how you couldn't run it in a profitable way. Obviously, we're giving away a hundred times as much for two divisions, but man, if they had even upped it to 20k, you know what I mean?
Some token gesture, like, if we're going from a basketball court with a hundred people in there to selling out T-Mobile, like, if there's room for a fireworks show, if there's room for dramas, I feel like there should be some room in the budget for the athlete pay to increase.
No, that's a good argument, and hopefully, by forcing, by this, you guys will, like, inspire them. And the argument.
is about making stars. Like, it's true, it's true. Obviously, you get a huge platform, but you could win and not become a star. You know, I know plenty of guys, well, not plenty of guys, but I know a few people that have won ADCC,
but really, like.
. No one knows who they are.
That's crazy for me, is I'll go to a seminar and I'll sell out just because of just fucking gay jokes and stupid jokes all the time, you know, and I'll see real champions that can't sell out a seminar. So if we can make an event that those champions can make some real money in, I'd be super happy. Well, I think.
also your popularity has increased because people know that you coach Volkanovski, and you've worked with MMA athletes before. Do you plan on still doing?
that? For sure, yeah, for sure. Love Volkanovski, always be there for him anytime. I mean, obviously, MMA's got a lot of crazy individuals in there, but, like, to give up the time to work with the correct athletes, I will always have time for some of the real good guys out there. Like, obviously, Izzy.
Awesome. I'd always make time for Izzy. Jack Deller from Perth. Like, guys like that, just super cool guys. I'd always find time to help them.
Yeah, Jack Deller.
What a big win. he got over, Gilbert.
Man, I still moves off him. I remember when he went in the Contender Series, he hit a, like, a Makikomi reversal in the first round of the Contender Series fight, and I was blown away by his grappling, and I've been watching it since. And his reversal with Gilbert Burns was crazy. Yeah, very crazy. I've trained with him, and I'm just like, I still moves from him.
Like, he's, man, he's so good at grappling. Yeah, he's.
very good at striking, too. He's, in my opinion, he's, like, one of the best in the sport at mixing up shots from the body to the head. Because so many fighters, for whatever reason, are headhunters. You know, and, because you can knock a guy out with one shot, but Jack is so good at mixing shots up to the body and to the head. I mean, he just breaks guys.
down. Yeah, it's, man, he's a scary guy. I was lucky, actually, because before the Taporia fight, we were able to, sort of, link up, so it was like he came out to Wollongong and trained. Izzy came in at the same time, so I got to watch Jack Deller and Izzy mix it up, and then them train with folks. And for me, even as an MMA fan, it's like, I have to pinch myself sometimes and be like, wow, that's amazing.
It's just like putting on this thing. when I'm talking to these guys about superfights. It's the dream. As just a grappling fan, I'm just thinking, oh, what could we do? Who could we convince into this event?
You know, like, just from a pure fan perspective, it is pretty fun. No, I'm.
sure. It's going to be interesting to see whether or not this can work, because a lot of people have, like, looked at the UFC model and said, hey, athletes should be getting paid more money, and so they put on these events, and none of them are profitable. I mean, maybe Bellator was, and they sold Bellator, and then there's the PFL. I don't know how they do financially, but they have the same sort of similar thing. They have a tournament.
At the end of the tournament, the guy wins a million dollars. But my.
point is, right, is like, if you're an Olympic champion or if you're a UFC champion, it has so much prestige that every single person in the world knows what it is. It has this intrinsic value. Yeah. If you say you're an IBJJF champion or an ADCC champion, a very small percentage of the population know that. So it's like, that's a case in point.
We've put on a tournament with much more money. Everyone jumps ships because they know that's money, whereas, like, obviously, Olympic gold medal, that's timeless. That's just crosses all sports, you know? That crosses into the culture. How many guys.
are jumping ship?
I mean, I'll tell you afterwards, but.
So is it public that they're jumping ship, or are they not talking about?
it? Well, we've got 16 spots in under and over, and I'm navigating through who.
wants to be in there. 16 spots each, so 32 total?
I'm trying to navigate to the best guys we can get, and it's like, everyone wants.
in, you know? Really? So? no one's worried about the repercussions or the blowback from ADCC?
No, because I think they see it as, wow, I could get the money to show. So the Tackett brothers, local Texas guys, some of the nicest kids ever, you know? And they were the first ones to reach out to me. They won the trials. ADCC's been their dream their entire life, and they just hit me up.
Because no one believes anything I say, unfortunately. You make too many jokes, everyone's like, it's full of shit. But these guys were like, man, is this real? And I was like, yeah, it's real. And they're like, well, even if I have to deal with the consequences, even if I have to go back and win the trials to qualify again, I want a shot at a million.
And they're not even talking about themselves. They're like, I want to take care of my family. And I'm like, wow. That's a super cool motivation to do this. They're willing to risk it because they'll fight their way back in.
Well, I hope there's no repercussions.
I don't think there will be.
Well, we'll see, right? But I think the best case scenario is that ADCC recognizes that there's competition, and they have to raise up the amount of money to get the athletes. You know, maybe it'll just elevate the profile of the sport enough so that's profitable still.
Yeah, it's a good experiment. Prestige versus...
But why do it the same weekend as them?
Well, you want the athletes to make a stand, you know? Are they together? Or, you know, what is the motivation here for these guys?
Money's the motivation.
It's sort of making a stand, but it's making a stand. that money is more important in this organization that's propped up the sport for 20-plus years.
Well, there's other athletes that say a million dollars is easy to make.
Well, it's easy for Gordon. I mean, Gordon makes a lot of money. I mean, Gordon makes a lot of money for instructional, just from dominating for all these years.
But, again, like a million for most guys. I mean, you grow up in Brazil. A million's not easy to make by any means. Especially, the instructional market is predominantly English-speaking people. They're the ones that are going to pay the highest price, so it's like us that speak English have a huge advantage in that area.
Even me, personally, just for having an accent. A lot of Americans are like, wow, he's fucking smarter.
That's why we use people like you for infomercials.
Yeah, exactly. They take it.
You can sell a mop.
John Donahue, you throw a Kiwi accent on him. He's obviously a smart guy, but that adds points for sure.
Are you still close to him? Do you talk to him?
No, we don't talk.
So he's upset about this?
I don't know. I've run into him a few times. We shake hands. But you know his general demeanor. You don't really know.
I look back when we walk past.
I helped him hide a few bodies in New York. Some missing women. But we had a tight bond.
He's a unique character. He seems like a guy from a fucking movie. He doesn't even seem like a real guy. Some professor of philosophy at Columbia who becomes obsessed with jiu-jitsu. Sleeps on the mats.
Teaches everybody and forces everybody to train 365 days a year.
Yeah, that's an interesting fella.
What was it like doing that? Like this? Training 365 days a year.
I mean, I wouldn't do it. I would be like, bro, we're taking a day off. Let me have a day to relax. I wouldn't necessarily do it. It was a lot of training, though.
He wanted it to be your life. And obviously it should be. But a lot of pressure. A lot of pressure to be a part of that team.
Did you talk to him about the philosophy behind those decisions?
I mean, we had a lot of discussions. I think we were actually really close because I'm from... He's New Zealand, I'm Australian. I'm from his part of the world. So a lot of the time Australians visit, he actually has a tight connection with them because we have a lot of things we can relate on.
So we talk all the time. Unfortunately, probably me and Nicky Ryan were two of the ones he was closest to before the team split.
Hmm. And when you guys were training there, how beneficial is it having a guy like him around?
Super beneficial. And also not just because of who he is and how smart he is, but he basically approached it like an MMA coach. An MMA coach is always watching, is always guiding your training. Most Jiu-Jitsu coaches are participating. They teach you a few moves, they roll with everyone.
So to have a guy that approaches it like an MMA coach, where he approaches it with that level of professionalism, watching, making adjustments, I think even something as simple as that is a huge benefit.
Hmm. Yeah, I think so too. Also a guy who's physically impaired, where he can't compete, but he has so much passion for it that he pours it all into the athletes.
Yeah, and I think what made him so brilliant as well is obviously his college and university. He knows how to study. He knows how to take notes on everything. He knows how to teach. You put him in Henzo Gracie's in New York for 20 years, when it was the hub of MMA, and grappling.
Guys like Hodja Gracie are passing through all the time. He's basically in this position where he can just watch, train with all these guys, pick up all these details, and have it locked and loaded, ready to teach in a perfect way. Like, obviously, his game's heavily inspired by Marcelo Garcia. He just takes the really useful things and can articulate it in a way that's better than most of the people in the sport before him. So I think there's all these factors that have made him who he is and why he's so successful.
How much of a factor is the constant training, the training of 365 days a year? How do you balance the burnout with the discipline? Because I think inspiration is almost... Enthusiasm and inspiration are almost... I think discipline's more important, for sure, but they're factors that can't be ignored, because when an athlete loses inspiration and loses enthusiasm, they just don't have the mental drive to push through very.
difficult situations. You know what I'm saying? You just lose the steam. You lose the engine.
I mean, I don't think you should do 365 a year. I think you should peak for events, have a period of time afterwards where you slow down, and then, when you're not preparing for an event, you're studying technique. When you get closer to an event, you're refining those particular techniques and skills for that particular event's rule set or opponent, or whatever, and we should go up and down. I like it. when you have an event, whether you win or lose, you don't train too much after and you have this period where you miss training and you're pulled back into it.
I do, and I think, I mean, even. obviously, Gordon's had forced breaks with health issues, but as long as I've known him and we train together, there would be time periods where he wouldn't be at training for a week or two. You know, so it's like, I think it's like a myth we should all strive for, but everyone should be entitled to some time.
off. Did you ever talk to John about?
that? I mean, I would just take a day off every week, but luckily I think he had some love for the Australians, let me get away with some things. he wouldn't let other people do. So, I mean, I would be chilling, you know?
Does he enforce that, like the 365 days a week?
I don't know if there's a real strong enforcement, but there's like an unspoken. you better be there, you know? But I don't know, who knows what it's like. now. Obviously, he's moved to Austin.
My memory's probably phasy, probably forgot some things, but yeah, obviously I'm super appreciative that I had or was a part of that team. But I mean, I was with like Lachlan, I'm lucky. I moved to Melbourne, I was with Lachlan Giles for a few years, I had a massive splash at ADCC 2019 and then I was with John. So, like I've been around some good coaches, you know? So I think I've got a lucky position, despite coming from Australia, not as lucky as others.
Like. it would have been amazing to be like a Nicky Ryan, born right next to New York and got to train with someone, with the people in that team or have that coaches. But again, like we're all not that lucky. I didn't even train with a black belt until I was already a purple belt. So it's like we all weren't exposed.
Because I'm from Australia, I probably came up with a time period in my city that was more like an older time in the US, where black belts were like, whoa!
Never met one.
What year did you start training?
Oh, probably 17 years.
ago now. And even back then, there weren't many black belts around? No, when.
I started training, I just trained with my cousin and he was like a four stripe white belt. There was like two people on the mats, you know? There was nothing. I trained twice a week. I didn't train properly.
for a long time. You trained twice a week?
Yeah, it was just like, I didn't even think, I didn't even know what it was, you know?
You were just doing it for fun? Yeah. What were you doing for a living?
back then? I was still in high school when I first started, and then I was just flipping burgers at Burger King, basically. Then I did a psychology degree, just a bachelor's. Like, I had to work, jobs, study, and do jiu-jitsu. So these assholes today, they get a just train.
I'm so envious of them, you know? Like, it's just the sport, again, the sport's growing that much with the sponsorship, deals and stuff, so. So, back.
then, how did you learn technique?
Man, I had Eddie, like, here's the funny thing, I had Eddie Bravo's Mastering the Rubber Guard book. That came to me at a very influential time, where I read the chapter about weed. I was like, fuck it, maybe I should start smoking weed, you know? So, like, I was, like, thinking I'm gonna learn some techniques, ended up smoking weed all the time.
Yeah, it doesn't work for everybody. It's interesting the weed thing, because some people think it makes you lazy, and I think you're just lazy. I think if weed makes you lazy, you're lazy. I just, I don't, I don't, it makes me think about the consequence. Like, the idea of paranoia, like people talk about weed.
paranoia, I think it's, like, a hyper awareness, and you know, Eddie once said this to me, like, if your life is shit, and you smoke weed, it's gonna feel terrible. But if your life is great, and you smoke weed, you're gonna feel good. Like, if you've got all, you don't have any problems in your life, you don't have any things you're dealing with, if you've dealt with your problems, and you're just, like, on a good path, then weed's good for you. But weed has never made me lazy. It's the opposite.
I smoke weed, I always feel like, don't be lazy. You gotta get things to do. You don't want these things fucking with you. You don't want these things hanging over your head. Like, that hyper awareness, it's, like, part of my work ethic.
You know, like,
like, oversight. Like, someone is looking over me all the time, making sure I, I can't lie to myself or to other people. Like, I have to do the things I'm actually supposed to do. That's my feeling about it.
Well, I mean, I read his book, and I was, like, 17, smoking bongs, driving to training in the car, having pre-workout, getting ready to go to war, you know? Like, that's. basically, it floats it out on me. But it was good. I think.
roll it, like, rolling high keeps you fluent, keeps you, I wouldn't do it all the time. Sometimes I meet guys that are so high that I've just smashed them for a round, but they've done one thing, but they're so, like, fascinated by that. Like, their perception's off sometimes.
I think that's possible, true. That's true. But I've always felt like I was, like, 10% better when I was high. I really feel like, that's, it was quite a few.
things. You gotta try a couple beers.
I'm scared. Beers don't help me. Like, when I play pool, if I play pool high, I play way better. If I play pool drunk, I'm not good. Oh, really?
Yeah, I think, with me, alcohol just makes me not pay attention to shit. Alcohol, for me, is, like, ahhh! I'm not, I'm not a focused person.
if I'm drinking. I need that for sport, that gives me a false sense of confidence, you know? I think that's useful.
Maybe one or two beers. But drunk, have you ever competed, drunk?
I've felt it, for sure, you know? It's usually a vodka soda or something, so if a fan sees, I'm like, that's soda water, man.
And you've done that many times? Where you just to take the edge off?
Five, six times. I mean, I was, I had a couple drinks before the Lovato match, because we had the Howlerhead bottle back there. I was like, hey, come on, throw us some sponsorship money, you know? Put that up, but sadly not.
Well, isn't Howlerhead owned by Dana?
Yeah, that was the thing. I was like, go, sneak us a bottle back here, man. Put it in the vlog.
When you were training and you were learning from books, like, did you have any videos that you studied? Was it like, how did you learn techniques other than just books?
I mean, I'm trying to remember what books I had, man. I had, like, PJ Penn's book, Eddie Bravo's book, like, the actual textbooks, and then I started buying the instructionals. Like, I had Cara Parisian's Judo, for MMA. I had Ryan Hull's. He really changed the game with instructionals in the early days.
So, like, stealing all his moves. And then I learned about the world of torrent sites, and I started illegally acquiring every instruction I could. And then we'd try to self-learn on the mats, studying these, and then drilling the moves. That's really... So, I was really self-taught up until Purplebell.
Really just focused on.
using instructionals. And then where'd you go for?
Purplebell? Then I moved to Melbourne with Lachlan Giles, and basically was, like, two and a half years there, and then two and a half years with John.
That's a crazy little amount of time.
Yeah, I didn't spend.
. That's the thing. A lot of people, obviously, they just notice when you achieve something, you know what I mean? So, like, I trained by myself a long time before I was able to join any.
big teams. What do you think attributed to your success?
I think.
. I mean, honestly, I don't know. I put in the work in the early days, for sure. And then studying, studying, studying, and then just being at the forefront of the Leglock, sort of, saga. You know, like, I got in at the right time.
I saw techniques in the Gi, like the Birambolo, that would just.
. A new technique that would wipe the floor with experienced black belts. You could use it on people. you had no business beating. Those are the techniques I wanted.
And I saw the Danahoe guys use heel hooks, and I was like, man, if I, as a Purplebell, can submit some black belts, I'm like, fuck it. That's the way I gotta go.
And so, how did you wind up training with John and the.
Well, I mean, I would just.
. Obviously, Australia's far away. Hard for me to keep doing that 16-hour journey back and forth. I wanted to stay in America, so I just started doing my camps there. That was the best place to do it.
It was, like, 100 people in the room doing Nogi. Obviously, it had that DDS squad there. that was awesome. Danahoe focus. At that time, there really weren't too many places in the world that would take Nogi as seriously as.
those guys. How bad was the staff infections going around down there? I got staff.
every month. Every month there.
How the fuck is that possible? I got.
it under my eye one time, and the doctor was like, bro, if it's right, you're fucked. I was like, oh, that's reassuring. Hey, thank you. But, yeah, every month I was on it. I remember I used to go trips to Mexico to get some medicine.
So I'd go down there, buy a bunch of doxycycline, buy, like, 90 tablets of it. I'd just sit on it, keep taking them. Used to buy my steroids down in Mexico.
too. But isn't that... That probably would fuck Gordon's stomach up. The steroids? No, I mean the antibiotics.
I don't think the steroids help.
Yeah, probably a bit of everything. Who knows? Yeah. The antibiotics definitely not good for you. But when you're on antibiotics...
He was on antibiotics for a year straight. Which, first of all, is crazy, because the amount of discipline it takes to train that much while you're on antibiotics. For people who don't know, antibiotics wreck your cardio. Just, wreck your physical strength, wreck your vitality. I got staff once, and I remember I took antibiotics, and I don't think I'd ever taken antibiotics before while I was training.
When I was recovering from staff, I was like, this is nuts. I feel like I'm 50%. You're at 50%. When Luke Rockhold beat Chris Weidman, he was on antibiotics.
I've taken it a lot during matches. I've taken it a lot. I've been on it all the time. The last two matches... It fucking wrecks you, though, right?
Yeah, I had bad stuff in my leg. Even during that Phillip Bro match, I remember. I submitted him, and then he had staff. a few days later. I was like, got you twice, mate.
That was bad when the doctor had to cut that open and squeeze it out. That was horrible. I think the more you take antibiotics, the less effect they have on you. Now I get staff, it's fucking really annoying.
Do you use anything to protect your skin? Do you use defense soap or anything like that?
Nah, I just try to shower straight.
afterwards. Just regular soap?
Yeah, anything. I think we have some branded soap in there, but I think it's just important. I mean, we're dealing with some people that don't even know how to shower. That's crazy. Yeah, so I have a quick rinse, get out of there.
I would see guys do that when they would train and they would just go home sweaty. You're out of your fucking mind. You're allowing that stuff to breed on your skin while you're in your car, it's hot out.
That was Puerto Rico. We had no showers at the gym. Oh, God. So we'd have a 60-minute drive home after each class without having to shower. Oh, that's insane.
Not good for the car fabric smell. But was the?
Puerto Rico gym, wasn't that exposed to sunlight. at least? Wasn't the mat exposed to sunlight?
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