Prepare For Your Future Instead of Paying For Your Past

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.

know how this show is going to go. Big Kenny Boy is going to take your career questions and work.

questions. That's right. Purpose questions. That's it. You want more money?

helps you with the bigger shovel. I'll help you with everything else. Boy, it's going to be a fun.

one today. I feel a great studio audience, by the way, out in the lobby. Fantastic group of people out there watching the show. Let's go to Natalie to start it off in Portland, Oregon. Natalie,

how can we help? Hi. Yes, I'm going to talk about a mix of career and life question. Currently, I am nine months pregnant and just starting my maternity leave today. On Thursday, we found out that the mill that I work at is shutting down for kids.

Okay. Everything, all like that. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm sorry that the carpet has kind of been pulled out from underneath of you.

So, before that, I was going to take standard three months leave and then come back and do a gradual return to work of like three days a week. Okay. And then kind of go from there. Okay. What were you making?

$90,000.. Wow. What did you do? What was the role? I was a supervisor.

you came back slowly?

Do you have no debt in the emergency fund? Yeah, we're in four, five, and six right now. Great.

All right, George, here's where I'm at on this. Natalie, here's what I'm thinking. So I think we go with the same plan. It's just that we've got to find something while, in the first three months, becoming a new mom, and this is going to be hard. But I think you immediately start telling everybody that'll listen to you, hey, here's what happened.

At times.

As a whole.

Yes and no. As a whole, looking at my job, I absolutely loved what I did and, working with the people I work mostly dealt with the optimization and kind of like more of the tech side, not so much as like the supervision side.

Okay, good. So here's a fun exercise. And I'm not going to make you do it on the air here, but I would like you to do this sometime in the next 24 hours. I want you to write down what you're doing. I want you to write down specifically.

Yeah.

And do you like tech?

Kind of. I went to school and became an engineer and didn't really enjoy that side of things. And so that's why I went into working at a mill.

Right. But you had mentioned you liked the optimization and some of the tech side of what you were doing at the mill, correct? Did I hear that right? Mm-hmm. That's what I'm getting at.

I know it sounds kind of silly, but being a financial coach, just because I've been obsessed with the Ramsey everything for the past few years and seeing how much it changed my life. My husband and I taught FPU and I helped friends and family with all things budget.

Fantastic. So, George, do you think that's silly?

That's not silly at all. I thought you were going to be like, I want to go twist balloons for kids' birthday parties. That's a little silly,

but I've heard that one before. We've heard it.

Wow. That's very generous.

Yeah. So I want to give that to you as well. It's going to set you up well. And think of that as George and Ken's baby shower gift. What do you think, George?

I like that.

All right. Hang on the line. Austin will take care of you. For the rest of you, don't move. More Ramsey Show coming right up.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number for you to jump in is 888-825-5225.. The question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services, with 19 service brands nationwide.

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Today's question comes from Bethany in Georgia. My husband and I are having a disagreement on our monthly personal spending money. We budget for each of us to have a hundred dollars. My husband says I can't visit my family in Florida because we're paying off debt and the cost would be around 500, but he also talks about saving his allowance over several months to go to a concert. I was under the impression that if you only plan on spending 30 out of the hundred, you put the 30 into a spending envelope and use the rest towards debt.

George, I feel like I need to get you one of those judge robes. I would love that. This feels like an episode of Judge George.

A little gavel?

A gavel? Why does it have to be a little? Why can't you have a full-size gavel?

A big gavel is a little bit superfluous.

Superfluous?

It's a little bit much.

Oh, you think you're trying to overcompensate?

I think the gavel should fit the judge.

I'm going to get you a giant gavel, like where you're like this.

All right, let's see.

It's like a carnival game. America wants to know. This is a spicy one.

Well, the hot take is, I think this is less about finances and more about their communication. A hundred percent. And expectations around this. Yeah. So they have a hundred bucks each month, but he's saying to her, you can't use $500 to go on this trip, even if you saved up your $100 spending money.

Yeah, a guy wants to go see Whitesnake.

So she's saying, my understanding is, if you don't spend all your spending money, it needs to be used towards debt. So can you clear this up? So the question really becomes, are you allowed to sort of not use the spending money and then use it for whatever you want down the road? Or does it have to be used every month or it goes away? So that feels like semantics at that point.

Right. So you know where my brain goes. Back to the old school envelope system, right? The day of a spouse for years. So if you had what was called blow money, right?

Well, to me, if you said you can use this on whatever you want, as long as it's moral and legal, then she can save it up for five months and go to Florida.

I feel like we got a control freak on our hands. I think the guy here is like, do what I say, not as I do. Yeah.

So if he's able to save it up for months and go to the concert, I don't know why she can't save it up for months and go see family.

And listen, this is not just a money question. Can I just talk to guys everywhere? Okay. Dating, married. Listen, this guy's missing the boat.

Time it perfectly.

I don't know what his problem is. He's really playing against himself here. This is a not a happy wife, happy life type of move.

Well, and there seems to be an unspoken rule book that he has on how this should all go down. And so they need to be very clear as to what this money can be used for, what the stipulations are for each of them and agree on it. That's what this comes down to. But I don't think she's in the wrong if she wants to do that.

So, Judge George, what is your ruling?

She wins, Bethany.

Bethany wins.

Yeah, I don't know what they say in court. It's not a guilty or not guilty. This is more of a Judge Judy situation.

I'll tell you, the husband's guilty of being a bonehead. That's what he's guilty of. That's my ruling. How about that?

You can't go to prison for being a bonehead, though.

You can go to prison because you're a bonehead. You do something boneheaded. and the next thing, you know, you're on an episode of Cops.

You do the crime, you pay the time.

There it is. All right, let's go to Austin in Rochester, New York. Austin, how can we help?

Hi, I'm 19, full-time, working full-time while pursuing a bachelor's degree online. I'm currently looking... My long-term goal, I guess, or short long-term goal, is to buy instead of rent. I'm currently living with my parents. And I was just curious what you guys' thoughts would be in terms of picking up really aggressively for a down payment or sort of stepping back, contributing to a Roth IRA, that sort of thing, and maybe not being able to put a down payment down quite as soon.

So this is what we would call baby step three, B, meaning you don't have any debt, you have an emergency fund, and you're ready to A, invest, or B, start getting the down payment going. Correct? And so you might be doing what we would call C. And so this is kind of a choose your own adventure. People can choose to invest anywhere from zero to 15% while saving up the down payment.

Probably around 20%, ideally, obviously, but...

So what would that be for a place in your area that you're looking at?

Probably somewhere between 40, 50, maybe. No, maybe 30, 50, somewhere in there, you know?

So 50 grand is your goal, then for down payment?

Yeah, so real quick question, George, here. Austin, what's your professional path look like? I know you're 19 and you're in school, so there's a lot that's up in the air, but what do you think that looks like? What's your expectation?

Yeah, so I'm not entirely sure, obviously, on that. right now. I'm working in the state legislature, so I could keep going down that path. My degree will be in public relations when I graduate, so I'm not sure if I'll continue on that route or go into some form of nonprofit work. So I guess that's a little bit up in the air right now.

Okay, but just for sake of conversation, George, jump in here. I'm going to hand it to you. I mean, you're looking at, I think it's safe to say 40 to 60.. I think 60 is probably on the high end, certainly in the legislature. I used to work in the...

What are you making now?

Well, he's in school.

But you said you're working full-time. on top of that.

Oh, I missed that.

So what are you making and what are you doing?

So I'm making, I'm just about where he said, an aide. And I'm making, at that job, 37.. I have sort of a part-time job outside of that as well, which gets me around five more a year. So I land right around between 40 and 42, I think.

That's what I was thinking, because even if he goes into PR, I still think he's going to be sub 60,000 starting out. So I wanted, I think that's a fair...

Set the expectations.

So what's he looking at? What's his play, then for his mindset to do what you would have him do?

Well, are you going to stay in your area, in the Rochester area?

I'd say so, at least in the short to midterm, probably.

When do you finish school?

Anticipated to graduate in a couple years here, because I'm doing a part-time, obviously, while working full-time.

My plan would be, don't make any decisions until you land a full-time job. So continue saving aggressively. And I think you're going to hit that right on the mark. Fund, the Roth IRA for the year, whatever's left over, let's put in the down payment. And then, three years from now, you graduate, you got 50 grand in that account.

Right.

And so that would be my plan, to save aggressively. You can invest. while... I mean, at 19, you start to pop in these numbers in an investment calculator, it'll blow your brain. what that Roth IRA money will turn into 30 years from now, 40 years from now.

But even at that, George, he's going to be way ahead of the game. He's going to be a multimillionaire.

I wish I was as smart as Austin at 19.. I was making bonehead moves.

I thought he was interning. I missed it. I didn't realize you were full-time in the New York legislature. Yeah, I missed that. That's really fantastic.

And what's your GPA, Austin? Do you know yet?

Unweighted, it's a four. I'm not exactly sure what it looked like weighted.

While working full-time. That is impressive, my friend.

See, Austin?

I appreciate that.

He's at the deep end of the pool there. Four, a four. That's what I got on a quiz, a one to 10, and I got a four. This guy's a 4.0.. He's casually dropping it out there.

Well, parents always think, well, Austin, he's got to go to do his schoolwork and he can't work. I'm like, no, he's doing other things than schoolwork.

Austin is more talented than I am. We have to be okay with this. They're just people that are smarter, better looking, jump higher, run faster. And this guy, Austin-.

Stop talking about me. I'm right here.

Well, I'm talking about myself. The only thing you and I do well is talk. And that's debatable to some of our audience. Some of our audience is like, yeah, I got a comment for you, pal. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm staying hydrated today, Ken, and caffeinated. So I got my, everyone knows I love a nitro cold brew. I wanted to crack this on the air so everyone can hear the nitrogen escape. this can. You ready for this?

I love sounds.

That's beautiful.

That's better than anything they could ever put on the show. Folks, that's real. If you're listening, that was not a sound effect from James and the fearless guys in the booth. That's the real deal.

That's the sound of caffeine about to enter my veins, Ken. It's about to be a spicy show.

I'm not a fan of that. I tried one of those once and I felt like I was drinking the bottom of a shoe.

Well, at your age, it's dangerous.

My age? What does my age have to do with it?

I mean, you know, you're getting there.

Getting where?

You're a year away from being able to get an AARP card.

That's not true. Is that true?

I think it's true. Can anyone confirm? 50 and up?

Is that true?

My man is on the cusp.

Studio audience is not sure.

Well, technically, 18 or older can open an AARP card, the discount card. So you're fine. Yeah.

You act like I'm ancient. I'm what we like to call seasoned. Wow.

Yeah, so are baseball gloves, aren't they?

Now you don't know what you're talking about. Oh, Bobby, the Engineer's got a cold brew in there.

He's got one too. All right, great.

While you get caffeinated, I'm going to help Micah. How about that? Micah joins us in Dallas, Texas. Micah, how can we help?

Hi, so I was calling because I had a little bit of a career question. So my dad's an appraiser and a broker, and I'm about to have my real estate license. And I didn't know what would be the best financial decision to work for him or go and work for like an Eddie Holiday or Keller Williams.

Okay, Micah, I got to ask, how old are you?

I'm 22..

22 years of age. And so you are at this kind of this precipice of dad's. offered me something or I can strike out on my own. Is that a fair description of what's going on?

Yes, sir. Because I've been, they have rental properties too. And I've been working for them remodeling homes for about two years now. Yeah.

So here's the question. I think it's pretty simple. What is your heart telling you?

I don't know.

No, I think you do. So. here's how I know this. So when we have big decisions like this, okay, and by the way, it seems like both are good options. Is that fair?

Neither would be fatal here.

Yeah. So both good options. I believe that in situations like this, every human on the planet has a head voice and we have a heart voice. And the head voice, Micah, is always going to go the route of, is this smart? Is this safe?

Yes, sir.

And the heart voice always goes with, will this be fun? Will this be rewarding? Does that sound like that's true?

Um, I would say that my heart voice is a little bit towards which one is the best, like to make the most money.

No, no. I know, you think that is, that's your head. Okay. And it's okay. I'm not, we're not going to choose voices.

I think. short term, probably, you know, the, the Keller Williams or the Ebby holiday. in the longterm, it would be the amount of, you know, houses that I would want to sell, um, with a lower, um, I forgot the word for it, but, uh, a higher commission that I get to keep, um, with my dad.

So working for dad, there's more upside, because he wouldn't take the traditional commission as a broker. Yeah. Okay. And long-term, the work that you're doing for your dad, is that what you want to be doing versus just straight up selling homes for Keller Williams, for example?

Um, so I just sort of grew up with real estate. That's what they live and breathe. And that's what me and my brother, my brothers in the Prager, what, you know, we got into that way. I really like horses, but they don't make any money.

Thank you for saying that out loud. I've always felt that way.

Okay.

Well, so, Micah, what we're trying to determine for you is help you walk through this fork in the road. And which way were you leaning before you called? working for your dad or working for another company?

Um, I was leaning towards working for a different company, um, just because I live an hour from my parents and drive into work every day.

Oh, well, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I mean, so, well, let me just say this. I wouldn't make that decision without going. All right.

Yes, sir. But most of my personal own rental properties are an hour away. Great.

You've already answered me. So, so you need to stay where you are because of this other property, right?

Yes, sir.

I mean, again, this is coming down to what's the best common sense decision for Micah. And I think I'm hearing go work for somebody else. And I think that's the way you are leaning, because you just said you were, but I think you're questioning it because you're like, ah, I can make more money working with dad. And it feels like you're making the wrong decision. Am I starting to get on this?

Yes, sir.

You're not making the wrong decision, George.

I mean, here's my thing.

We went to Judge George.

Let's say you tried this out for two years and you went to work for another company. What's to say? you can't work for your dad down the line? Your life doesn't change down the line. I wouldn't make this thinking.

I agree.

And I think that will free you up to go. I know what the right next step is, instead of the next 17..

What do you think of that, Micah?

I think that's perfect, because it's accurate.

I think that's the play. That's where you were. And we agree with you. You have plenty of common sense. I would use it.

Okay. Yes, sir.

Yeah, you got it. Anything else?

No, sir. That was it.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it.

Yes, sir.

You know, here's the deal. In your 20s, okay, so the caller's 22.. So we just go, all right, at 22,. I have my entire 20s for what I would call exploration. Now, that does not mean I'm off on adventure, traveling the world, not working.

Absolutely. I would have never guessed this was the destination for me. I just knew the direction. And so I started exploring, and I would do marketing, and I was a musician, and I got into PR and writing. And I was trying to think what are the threads through all of those to where I can use those skills and talents and passions to do what I meant to do.

But while it is a zigzag, I'd like to see people zigzag up a mountain intentionally. Yes. There's a way to do it. I'm headed in this direction. In this case, Micah is headed in a very clear direction of being a real estate professional.

That's impressive. And a lot of wisdom and maturity.

Very mature.

I didn't have that. I'm still working on that.

I love it. Thanks for the call, Micah. All right. He's George Campbell. I'm Ken Coleman.

Oh, yeah.

And it's called Total Money Makeover Weekend. Obviously named after the goat of all money books. Total Money Makeover. And the event is here on our campus. So in the Nashville area, it's called Total Money Makeover Weekend.

I saw a preliminary rundown of what the event's going to be, and I'm very excited. Very different than what we've done before.

Very, very different.

Lot of interaction.

Early bird tickets start at just $99.. Those will not last long. Only 2,400 seats. It will sell out. Jump on it now.

I was just wondering. I have two different debts that I'm looking at, and I'm wondering whether or not I should consolidate those debts just so it's easier to pay them off.

What would make it easier?

I have a line of credit from my schooling since I graduated in 2019, and it's starting to, like, this year, it started the repayments, and so it comes directly out of my account, where my credit card, I've been trying to pay it down. I've been trying to do the first baby step, and right now I'm struggling with it. So I'm wondering whether or not I should try to figure out if I can consolidate those debts, and then it's just a monthly payment.

Well, I'll tell you, debt consolidation is not the answer to the problem. We need to address the momentum, the behavior, and debt consolidation is really just kind of moving the debt around, putting it in one giant pile in a corner, thinking that we've actually done something.

Yeah.

And so when you do these consolidation loans, there's no guarantee that your interest rate will be lower. The lower interest rate doesn't always stay low. It usually means you'll be in debt longer, and it doesn't equal debt elimination, on top of the fact that we didn't actually change the behavior. So what I'd like to see you do is lay this out in the debt snowball method, from smallest to largest balance, break out every loan separately, and attack that little one with a vengeance while making minimum payments. Regardless of how it's paid and what account it comes from, that part's not that difficult.

It's so variable right now. with my job. I work my home base, and then I travel nurse as well. So my income varies from month to month.

What are you making in? general?

Between $44 and $55 an hour.

Okay, great. So that's six figures. And so, making that six figures, how much do you have left over? What's your total debt that you have?

Around $50,000.. So I have a credit card that has a $5,000 max, and that's $4,479 right now.

Have you cut up these cards yet?

No.

I think that's the first step, don't you think, is to stop the bleeding?

Yeah.

Because then, once that card's cut up and you close it, there's nothing you can do except go pay that off and never touch it again.

Yeah.

And so that would be my first move.

No, I don't have anything in saving right now.

Okay. So your first step is $1,000 in savings. Can you do that on the next paycheck?

That's the plan right now. Okay. I'm getting two paychecks from both jobs, and so I'm going to try to put $1,000 into saving. And I know that I've...

Change your language, Miranda. There's no try. Say, I'm going to put $1,000 into savings. no matter what. No matter what I have to cut from my life, no matter how many extra hours I have to work, I'm going to put $1,000 into savings.

And it was just poor money management over the past year. I had the credit card paid off this time last year, and I put $10,000 into my line of credit.

And what happened? If you had to really look at your heart and go, what happened? Why did I go back into debt after I worked hard to pay it off? What would the reason be?

I was working a contract that was higher paying. It was up to $87 an hour, and then it was just poor spending. Purchases and traveling, yeah.

You made more, and then you spent more than you made. So it tells me where the things we're spending money on travel, we need to cut that. The only travel we're doing is for travel nursing. The only eating out we're doing is if I'm picking up food for DoorDash, because it's my side hustle. And you see when you draw that line in the sand, how it all changes?

Yeah, we need to change the word, Miranda. George, not consolidation, elimination.

Ooh, that's our word. And there's no, I wish there was some kind of life hack to just eliminate all your debt through one of these ads that you're seeing, you're being marketed to. They're scams. Yeah. The only solution is Miranda.

So, Miranda, I got to ask you, George, just lighted out beautifully what you have to do. Where's your head at on this? Do you believe you can do it? Do you want to do it? Be honest, if you don't mind.

I know that I have trips coming up that, like, for the month of April, I have one week that I'll be working, which I know that if I work really hard at this point right now, then I can start contributing harder to that credit card and making sure that I'm not taking any traveling on that point unless it's absolutely saved up for and I'm not putting it on that credit card.

But even then, I think you have priorities. For the next 12 months, what if we cut travel and we just got rid of debt?

Yeah.

How old are you?

I'm 27..

So what if, at 28,, you could travel as much as you want because you don't have debt in your life and you just budget for it and you never put it on a card? From 28 to 68, you get to do whatever you want.

Yeah. That's a nice trail.

Like, I want to start saving for a down payment on a house or just being able to...

And you're in Vancouver. That ain't cheap over there.

That's right. So, Miranda, what needs to change for you to have a shot at throwing $5,000 a month? Is that even possible?

Last month, I worked a two-week contract and that was almost $4,500 for the two weeks.

So this is two weeks. This is the shift. Mentally, you go, this is what I have to do, and I can actually throw close to $5,000 a month. And I believe you can do more than that. But let's just using that as a round number, because George brought it up.

That's 10 months.

That's 10 months. You're done.

Yeah.

So I'm going to give you a tool to help you with this. It's called EveryDollar Premium. It'll help you make a plan for every dollar coming in and that'll show you exactly how much margin you need to create to get to that $5,000. And you might see, oh gosh, I spent $1,200 on food last month. I need to do better at that.

Okay.

So hang on the line. We're going to give you those tools on us, because I believe you can do this. But again, it points to the lifestyle. is the problem, not this debt consolidation as the solution. And so if you can get control of that person in the mirror, they're going to be very wealthy and debt-free very soon.

Do you see a direct correlation in the data, or I know you probably see it from human behavior, any kind of data that says that people pay off debt, take some longer to pay off debt once they consolidate?

Oh yeah, because they think they've done something and therefore they let their foot off the gas. And you need to put it on the accelerator.

So the data, this isn't just your opinion. The data backs you up. Yep. The numbers don't lie, folks.

Doesn't solve anything.

But, as I've said before, and I'll say it again, George, dusting this one off, numbers change when people do.

Ooh, I like that one.

So we start seeing some people change. We'll see some number change. Great hour, George. Thanks, James Childs. This is The Ramsey Show.

I'm irritated and caffeinated.

You're irritated and caffeinated. You need to gargle that cold brew right there on the mic.

I don't do that to America. They deserve better.

It's the sound effect that America wants to hear, but the guys in the booth do not.

We need healing, Ken. It's the last thing America needs.

And I'm telling you, a good gargle sound effect will bring people together. It really will. Let's go north of the border. Ontario, Canada is where Rose joins us. Rose, how can we help?

I've got kind of a loaded question.

Okay, we're ready.

I'm recently separated. in the spring of last year. I finally had my husband removed from the house by police for a protection order. And I've been in the house by myself. I'm finally feeling safe.

Why would you be unsafe if you moved out on your own?

My neighbors know what's going on. And I'm in an area where I feel protected by my neighbors.

Are there any kids in the equation?

No.

Well, that's good news.

Yeah.

Why don't you lay out your financial situation? Because I think that the financial component to me seems, on the surface, George, a little bit more black and white. Well, lay out your money situation. Do you have any debt at all?

No, no debt.

And you have an emergency fund. How much is in there?

It's waning because it's going into lawyer fees. But at the moment, I have, let's just say, about $9,000 in savings.

And are you working?

I do. I work full time. What's your income? I make $55,000 a year.

$55,000.. Okay.

So, with this buyout, you'd have to refinance and be able to handle the mortgage on your own. Yeah. With the current rates in Canada.

There's $155,000 left on the mortgage. The house is worth approximately $215,000.. Although I've had real estate agents say we can get more. But the average I've been getting from real estate agents is around $215,000 to $220,000..

Okay.

What are your chances to grow your income?

I think I could easily grow my income. I'm very happy. where I am at my work. People know what's going on. And they're also kind of protecting me.

How long has it been since he got removed from the house?

It'll be a year.

Okay. And he hasn't pulled any stunts in over a year?

No, he has.

The restraining order?

And then, yeah, we call it a protection order here. But yeah, restraining order. And then a peace bond was just put into place. So right now, they're not proceeding with the trial. He's taking a DV course.

Yeah, I'm so sorry, Rose. I'm so sorry. The reason I'm asking is because I'm trying to, just from a common sense standpoint, if I were your brother, I'm trying to take on the role of older brother here.

Well, I just keep thinking this abuse happened in this home, didn't it, Rose?

It did.

Yeah, I think we need to remove ourselves from the physical. Yeah, I would get out for that reason alone, on top of the fact that you straight up told us you're barely going to be able to pay the mortgage on your own and you deplete your emergency fund. So it's not financially sustainable. And emotionally and mentally, this is not the best place for you.

I agree with George, Rose. I was going to say, I wouldn't want my sister to add financial stress to everything else you're dealing with. It just doesn't make any sense.

The problem is rent prices are so high now, though, too.

So I'm like, if I were to go and rent, it doesn't matter. You're going to get foreclosed on.

Yeah, I could afford the mortgage.

You just told us you'd have to deplete the emergency fund.

I'd have to get $10,000 extra a year if I wanted to really be comfortable for travel and all those extras.

Well, you're what we call house poor right now. You can't live the rest of your life because you're stuck making the mortgage payment. And so, for that reason alone, this is a bad idea.

But I want you to hear what we're hearing, Rose. And Rose, we're on Team Rose. OK, hear us. Listen, we're not trying to disagree with you. But you need to hear what we're hearing.

Yeah, and equity, you know.

Yeah, but wait a minute. here. You don't have much equity at all. And equities aren't going to matter if you're-.

And if your refrigerator breaks, you're screwed over, right?

Well, yeah, you don't have the money for the just home. renovate, the home repair and maintenance costs.

You need a roommate. That's what you need.

That's what I was going to suggest is get a roommate, because that's going to add to the level of safety that you feel.

Cut your costs.

And cut your costs in half.

Get your life stabilized. There is a home in your future. There's equity in your future.

So you sell this place. You each get $20,000.. Is it an even split?

Yeah, that's the hope.

Is he paying his portion?

My lawyer already gave him a separation agreement. They had already said, these are the terms. His lawyer agreed to it.

I'd get him out.

And then my lawyer wrote up the separation agreement, and then he won't sign it now.

Now, I have no way of proving this, Rose, but my gut tells me that if I sold this house, and I give him a chunk of money, and he's not on the hook for his payment, it goes a long way to get him out of your life. George?

Yeah, you've got financial streams.

Well, I'm not giving him anything towards the house right now either.

Well, whose name's on the mortgage?

Both.

Exactly. That's what I'm saying. You have financial strings attached to him until you get out of this.

And he gets out of it too, because if anything goes wrong with the house, he's on the hook. So I think it's a clean separation.

Yep, I'm going to go sell that.

Judge George, give us a final judgment there.

The gavel's down. Sell this thing. Move out. Get an apartment. Get a roommate.

Glad you're thinking about you in this moment instead of Rose. But Rose has been through it.

We are pulling for Rose.

Rose, we're pulling for you. I'll give George a hug during the break, America. He'll be ready. I promise. Don't move.

I think you're upset because you don't have the day off. Could be. But you also love to work. I do love to work.

Thank you very much. I'll be taking your work questions, because that's how we make more money and get through the baby steps faster. George Campbell will be taking your money questions. So we are here for you, America. Very excited.

Well, to make matters worse...

Am I that grumpy today?

You had no break. Uphill both ways.

See, that's really funny. You think you're really cute with that.

I thought that was cute.

I'm just saying we got too many breaks.

Too many breaks. Ken said, get off my lawn.

We got smoke breaks. We got cell phone breaks. We had too many breaks. But I digress. We're here to help you.

You sound more like Seinfeld, but like the generic brand. You know what I mean? Like great value Seinfeld.

Generic? Yeah. With this sweater, it doesn't quite... It wasn't generic about me.

I don't want to give you too much credit and say you're Jerry Seinfeld. That felt like egregious.

That would have been egregious. John is in Minneapolis. John, how can George and I help?

Hey guys, I have a question. Is it better to invest in a Roth IRA for my kid's education or open up a 529 plan for them?

Great question. I am assuming. the heart of this question, and you can tell me if I'm wrong, is that you're not sure if the kids will go to college, if they're going to use all the money, and therefore I'd rather have it on the Roth side.

Exactly.

Well, the 529 plan acts as a Roth IRA, but it's for education. And the beautiful thing is, with the new Secure 2.0 Act ruling, you can now roll over a portion of the 529 money into a Roth IRA if they don't end up using it.

Yeah, that's the caveat that I was wondering too, because I feel that when, what is it, like 15 years or so, when they don't use all the money, they have a retirement fund eventually, because they're 10 and 7 right now. So they'll be mid-20s, when that would convert into a Roth.

To have a Roth IRA in their name, it would have to be a custodial Roth, and they would need to have earned income.

Yeah, I thought the 529, if you don't use it for 15 years, or after you're done using it for like 15 years, it converts to a Roth.

Yeah, and you can convert up to $35,000 over to the Roth side. So I would just go with that plan. And number one, there's no income limitations or contribution. The contribution limits are way higher on a 529 plan versus your Roth IRA. And also the other piece of this is, it's going to count as regular income tax.

Let me add another wrinkle to this, John. So just give us an idea. if the 10 and 7-year-old don't go to a traditional college university, what would you see them doing? Do you see them getting some type of training? And if that's the case, give us an example.

Yeah, their expectation is some sort of secondary education after high school, whether it's be a plumber, electrician, some type of secondary education.

So here's the point. The 529 is pretty liberal in your application of those funds. And so any kind of trade school, certificate program, coding bootcamp, it's going to cover all that.

Okay.

And you can always change the beneficiary. I mean, that can be loose. It could be a first cousin. It could be the first cousin's spouse, aunt, uncles, son-in-laws. I mean, so there's a lot of options to still pass down this money and use it.

So much is going to change to parents everywhere of 7 and 10-year-olds. Hear me now, listen to me later. Okay. Think about that one, George.

That'll take me a second.

I know. I'll tell you this. What education is going to look like for a 7 and 10-year-old in America right now is going to be dramatically different. Mark, my words. Mark, my words on this.

I've got one for my now almost six-month-old. Do you really? Yeah, very excited about it. Yeah, that's great. And I'm hoping family can contribute.

Yeah, I like that. A little. 529 party.

She'll be going to school debt-free. I mean, we know that 100%. But that's what I do personally, and that's why I recommend it.

Yeah, I love it. Let's go to Marilyn now, in the City of Angels, Los Angeles, California, is where she is. Marilyn, how can we help?

Hi, Ken and George. My name is Marilyn, and my husband and I are debating on selling our condo and renting.

Whoa!

Who wants to sell it? Who wants to keep it?

Well, we're actually kind of at peace with selling it, both my husband and I.

So there's no debate. Yeah.

I feel like George and I are useless, which happens a lot, by the way.

Okay, what's the reason you want to sell it?

Okay, a couple reasons. Our HOA dues are increasing. We are now at $563 a month in HOA. What? Yes.

Welcome to condos in LA.

Ugh, HOA.

That is correct. Yes. And also, another main reason is we are in 950 square feet for three people. Ooh. Yeah.

Who are the three?

Who's the third person?

It's actually my stepson. His name is Clay.

How old is Clay?

Clay is going to be 12 in August, and we have shared custody. So we have him 50-50, but I'm worried about teenagers, right? And friends coming over and things like that.

As a former 12-year-old, I wouldn't want to share a bathroom with a 12-year-old boy, all right? I mean, they're the most disgusting human beings on the planet, and I say that with love. I have two boys. But they're disgusting. All you parents out in the lobby with little boys, when he turns 12, disgusting.

Wow.

I just needed to say, Maryland—.

That's an aggressive—. Well, I was going to say, this is a good idea. In a 1,000-square-foot home, four of us, my brother and I, my parents, we had one tiny bathroom we shared. And I'm saying we survived. I'm just saying.

But I don't want them surviving. I want them thriving.

Beyond the space and the HOA, what's the reason you're wanting to sell it?

Pay off debt.

Ah-ha.

We have, yep, $84K in debt. That includes college loans, $56,000.. Car loan, $11,000.. Personal loan, $17,000.. Ooh.

Okay. So how much equity do you have in this house? Or what will you net if you sold it?

$91,000 in equity. We would sell it for $455K and profit $63K.

Okay. After fees and all that, you've done the math?

Yes.

Okay. And do you have anything in savings?

We have in savings about $7,000..

What's your combined income?

Combined income for last year was $183,000..

Wow. All right. Okay. I like your plan, but I have this gut check. And here's the gut check.

We couldn't have bought the condo in the first place.

Like you guys, are willing to sell the condo to get out of debt, but are you willing to never go into debt again?

A thousand percent.

And she just said something.

We are totally on board.

She said they should have never bought the condo. Did I hear you say that you should have never bought it in the first place?

Yes, you are correct.

So you're going to go rent somewhere in the area?

That is correct. A three bedroom, two bathroom is about $3,200 in rent. We are spending $3,100 living here in a condo.

Well, I mean, you're just going to be paying someone else's HOA fee. So it's not like it disappears. It's built into the rent. But I think this is the best move for you and your family right now. And I'm proud of you.

Yeah, I like it. But George is right. You better change your behavior, not just the numbers. This is the Ramsey Show.

I've heard you talk about this.