Recognizing You Have a Problem Is 90% of Solving the Problem
2024-03-28 01:57:14
The Ramsey Show believes you can build wealth and take control of your life—no matter what stupid mistakes you've made with money. Join as Dave Ramsey and his team of experts answer your questions on the top problems holding you back. Listen now or ask your question live by calling 888.825.5225 weekdays from 2–5 p.m. ET. Learn more at www.ramseysolutions.com
From the headquarters of Ramsey. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. I'm, Dave Ramsey, your host, number one best-selling author, host of The Rachel Cruze Show, and the Smart Money Happy Hour co-host. My daughter, Rachel Cruze, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225..
Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Shane is in Denver. Hi, Shane. What's up?
Good afternoon, sir. How are you doing today?
Better than we deserve. How can I help? Of course.
Yeah. Hey, I'm just calling to... My wife and I, we bought our house in 2021, we bought it for $500,000.. We put $100,000 down on it. We had about $100,000 in our savings account that we kept in there, too, for our emergency fund.
We have now paid it down to about two, we owe about $280,000 on it as of today. Good. Very good. So in three years, we've put down another $115,000 into it.
You're killing it, Dave.
We have no debt. Our cars are paid off. We have no debt, and we have still about $100,000 in our savings account today as well. We are worried about the house economy crashing here in the next six months or so, and our mortgage rate is at 2.5%.
Well, let me stop you. I'm sorry. Why are you worried about the housing economy in Denver, Colorado, crashing?
I don't know. I think my... I don't know. My wife is... She's more of a realist than I am, and so I'm just kind of going with the flow and we're just trying to...
I'm sorry. What does being a realist mean? You mean a pessimist?
I guess so. I'm not trying to talk down on her, because...
Oh, I wasn't either. I'm just saying there's a realist. is someone who observes facts. There are no facts in the marketplace that indicated a housing crash in Denver, Colorado in the next six months. That's absolutely zero facts.
Okay. Well, that's good to know. And then also, we're trying to... We're wanting to see if we should sell our house also and collect a revenue... No.
It's already at 700.
No.
No. Okay.
You guys need to get off the internet.
That's what I say, too.
I'm sitting next to the Ramsey family conspiracy theorist. I'm a conspiracy theorist. I don't know.
When AT&T went out last month.
Rachel. This is it. I know. What's the Denver housing conspiracy? I missed this one.
You're up on all the conspiracies.
It does have the Denver airport. You are close to the bunker. That could happen if it all goes down, Shane. That's your greatest asset right now.
Again, at the same time, too, my son, we have a seven-year-old son, and I travel a lot for work in the state, and we're trying to maybe move to the southern part of Colorado, to where I don't have to travel as much and I can work for my office down there.
Please don't do that because the Denver housing market is going to collapse in the next six months. That should not be one of the factors that drives your decision. Okay. Because it's not. It's not going to collapse.
Okay.
Okay. Well, I mean, percentage-wise, I didn't want to go get a new house and then pay a percentage of something with a higher interest rate when we're at $2.5 billion.
You're not going to have a higher interest rate for much longer because you're paying it off so fast.
Yeah, that's true.
I mean, it might be three or four years. You carry it, but you're not going to carry it for 30 years, so it doesn't matter. But make your decisions out of a glass half full, not out of panic, and really quit reading the internet. I'm serious. Okay.
There are some really dumb, dark people out there.
Yeah. And I'm too busy with work. My wife's a nurse practitioner in psych, and the last couple years, she's been just a stay-at-home mother with our kid during these years, and now my son's getting to be where he can be in full-time school. So she's about to go back to work, too, now. Good.
So we're going to have a double income.
Yeah, that'd be great. As well. But I mean, psych nurses, maybe she. ... Oh, my gosh.
She's just seen a lot of crazy stuff, no pun intended, right? And so that can leave a mark on you, but I don't want her to live in fear. I don't meet people who anticipate the end of the world who prosper.
None. Great. I just don't. The people who ... I mean, there's preppers, and then there's crazy preppers, okay?
Prepper's one thing, but crazy prepper, that's anticipating the end of the world. I've got a friend who has gold bars. I have a friend who has gold bars in his basement, and it's just not right.
And let's keep talking about this, though, Shane, because the housing market is a point in our economy that a lot of people are panicked about. And back during COVID, when everything surged in 2021, we sat here at this desk, and people were like, it's a bubble, it's a bubble.
It's going to bust. It's going to bust.
And you're like, it's not. Supply and demand, supply and demand. We did the real estate. It's going up. Yes, we did the real estate hour and all of it.
So it is, though, Shane, to your wife's credit, it is a point of fear for a lot of people, because I think it's-.
Not to her credit. Empathize with her. I understand how people are afraid, but that doesn't mean that it's accurate or logical.
Okay. So then give us the logic behind it, because-.
Well, the logic is there's a housing shortage. Still? There's still three buyers for every stinking house on the market. And houses have gone up right now, today, in most major markets. Homes that are on the market are getting multiple offers.
But they're sitting on it longer, though. It's not-.
Yeah, like eight days longer. No, but it's not-. No, the average days on the market has gone up eight days in the past 12 months.
My wife sent me something the other day, and it says new home sales fall as mortgage rates weigh down housing.
Well, people- I know.
When the mortgage rates go up- It slowed it down, though. It did.
No one clicks on stuff unless it bleeds. So that's a clickbait lead.
Okay.
Housing starts fall as mortgage rates go up, which they did. A lot of builders slowed down. There's not as many houses coming out of the ground. You know what that does? It means there's an even bigger shortage of inventory, which makes your home even that much more, but house prices didn't fall.
Builders slowed down building because they didn't want to get caught with specs if the market slowed down on them, but not if the market crashed. Housing starts did drop, but headlines always go, everyone's dying. That's what the headlines always say, because that's what people click on. is that stuff. Yeah.
So look, that's what I mean by. don't read the internet, okay?
And with the election year coming up, traditionally in election years, things slow down closer to the election too. So you may see that happening.
Traditionally, interest rates go down because the sitting president doesn't want to get unseated by a stinky economy. We'll see.
Yeah.
Yeah. We'll see. But interest rates have come down a little bit in the last month and a half. They've come down a full point. And the market is, you know, some areas, the Southern areas of the country, the grass is starting to get green.
People are coming out of their winter caves and starting to buy houses. And the house market is heating back up. It's a dirty little secret. Nobody's talking about it. But I've been anecdotally involved in three or four deals lately where I'm watching and there's multiple offers coming in on these.
And so I'm getting ready to put our home on the market. And I was just looking, it's a different dollar amount, but I mean, I was just looking at the, you know, what's the average days on the market, average days on the market. What's the inventory? Inventory's dried up. I'm sitting pretty.
My timing is excellent. to put a house on the market. It's far from a crash, quite the opposite. You know, you're going to see your homes go up in value in the next 12 months. Just write it down and say the old bald guy said it.
This is the Ramsey Show.
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Well, there's one thing most of us agree on, taxes suck. This is the time of year which I generally stay grouchy. Just in general. Just because I think about how much theft my government is involved in.
Can we talk about this real quick, too, as it adds on to the tax? Yeah. I don't know why, it was kind of an epiphany I had yesterday, where I was like, it is weird that you could pay off your house, you could be completely debt-free, but the government, to a degree, still owns it. You've got to pay your property taxes, and in a sense they kind of own your career. You get put in jail, and then car insurance, you've got to pay off car, but you've got to pay insurance.
There's a level of this that you're like, man, it's not like.
Some of these things never stop.
It's what it feels like. Yeah, for real. I don't know, I had that epiphany the other day. I was like, man.
So you've got two choices for claiming tax deductions. Understanding the difference can save you big bucks. Literally, over 7 out of 10 Americans get a tax refund. That means 7 out of 10 of you are doing math poorly. There's a shock.
Listen, I'm old. I know Santa Claus. He's a friend of mine. He never goes to Washington, D.C. That money that's coming to you is not from Santa Claus.
He has nothing to do with it. It's not a gift. It's your money. You sent too much money to the freaking IRS. They held it all year at no interest, and they send it back to you, called a refund, and you have a celebration.
like you hit the freaking lottery. All it was was a bad Christmas account. You just saved up money, and then they sent it back to you with a zero percent interest with the stinking IRS, because you had too much taken out of your check. Stop it. Adjust your deductions to the proper amount of tax withholding to where you don't owe any taxes, and they don't give you a refund.
That's the proper thing to do. Now, this is what you've got to do, guys. If you're doing your taxes right now, you can take a standard deduction. That's the easy option. If you're single, you make $65,000 a year.
The standard deduction knocks off close to $14,000.
. So you only pay taxes on $51,000 of your income and not even that, really. That's if you're single.
So itemize your deductions. If you're going to do that, it takes more work, and you need a bunch of deductions, right? So if you want to know more about all this tax stuff, there's two things we'll do to help you. One is, if you have a very simple return, you can get the Ramsey tax smart software, Ramsey smart tax software, I can't say it, and I'm not smart enough to say it. And so it's not very expensive, and it's very easy to implement, and a whole bunch of people have moved from those other guys, like 100,000 of you will do your taxes on the Ramsey smart tax software this year.
So it's very easy, very simple. Now, if you have a complicated return, like you have a small business beside us, so you bought or sold a house or whatever like that, and you want to get a tax pro, we've got tons and tons of tax pros that are endorsed local providers that we have vetted. I was just talking to one a minute ago from Houston, and there she is waving at us. She was at the break getting her picture made. She does taxes for you in Houston.
So good folks, taking good care of you. That's the way to do it. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax, and you can find out about either one of those. Noah is in Sacramento. Hi, Noah.
Welcome to the Ramsey show.
Hey, Dave and Rachel, huge fan. Thank you for taking my call.
Sure. What's up?
I'm just, I'm in a, I got myself into a predicament. I, um, I moved, I was living in Huntington beach, um, around 2021.. And then, after COVID and stuff, I lost my job and my family in Sacramento said I can come live with them. So that's where I've been the last three years. Um, I got a good job.
Well, I make about 60 K, um, and, but over the three years being here, um, I've made some very bad decisions, um, severe gambling addicts. I think that me just having to pay my parents a couple hundred a month, like, gave me too much, uh, not enough responsibility. And I was just blowing it left and right. Uh, maxing out credit cards, long story short. Um, now I'm here.
Um, I told my parents everything and I just told them that I have a game plan to move out of here by September and just pay off everything I can until then. Um, I got a job opportunity, uh, to go out and spray for pest pest control in Texas. that is guaranteed 30,000 for about four months of work until September. I'm wondering if I should quit my current job and go do that and go pay off all my debt, but I'd come back with no job.
We're in Texas.
Um, Waco, I think we go, yeah, you think, I'm sure where it is.
Okay. Um, what have you done about your, what have you done about your severe gambling addiction?
I haven't gambled. What is it? It's three or four months. It's been about all year. Um, but it was bad.
I broke down and told my family and how have you dealt with it?
You just decided to stop, and that's it. You've got no help at all.
No, I, I, it cost me, um, my relationship and a bunch of stuff. And it just, I just realized I just had to stop. No, I haven't got like a therapist or anything, but I've been good. Deleted all my, all the websites.
There's two possibilities in this conversation. One is you don't have a severe gambling addiction. You were just stupid. That's one possibility. And you decided to stop being stupid to issue of a severe gambling addiction.
And if that's the case, you have not done enough to fix this. You would need to get into gamblers anonymous and you would need to be seeing a counselor. Okay. Okay. How old are you?
Okay.
I'm 25.
. I just turned 25 in December. Okay.
So, I mean, I've, I've, I've never had a severe addiction, but I have done stupid stuff, so I can relate to one side of it as a possibility. I don't know if this is just immaturity and stupidity, and you can ask yourself that question. I'm not calling you that. I'm just saying your actions were. And the way that you just quit cold without any help at all, kind of makes me think it was on that side rather than the addiction side, but I'm not a therapist.
What do you, what do you think?
Was it, is it a compulsion? Do you know what I mean? Noah, like usually with an addiction, there's a level of compulsion there.
It was, it was, it was compulsion. Yes. It was the dopamine. It was being bored. I, um, all my, I don't have any friends in Utah.
I mean, sorry, in Sacramento. And, um, when I got here, I got a job right away, but it was just work from home. I've been working from home for three years, so I never met anybody, and that's my bad, but I could join a club. I could do stuff, but I haven't. And so I've just kind of been working in my room and after I get off, I'm in my room gambling, because I'm, it's just, it's just been horrible.
Yeah. How much, how much debt did you go into for it?
Uh, I've been climbing myself out of it all year. Um, I also have a car payment because I just had to have the Lexus. You guys know, it's stupid. Um, but I have a credit card with 1800 on it, um, 4k on another card. And that's it for the credit cards.
And then I have a $10,000 car loan. I also owe the IRS $1,300,. um, because I decided to go exempt on some paychecks, which was really dumb.
Yeah. Cause you were gambling. Okay. Um, so.
Well, you hit your rock bottom, though. And I think for a lot of people, there is that part of their story where it's just, you, you lost everything, your relationship. all. I mean, it's just, you got to a point you can't, you couldn't continue to move forward until you had those conversations, right. That to, to actually bring up what's been going on.
Um, but I I'm with Dave on that, that I would just for your own sake. And I think that all of this is good for anybody just to do some work around who you are, how you got here, what, what are these things, these compulsions, where is it coming from? I mean, just doing some digging into your story.
Yeah. The problem with going to Waco is you go with you.
Yeah.
So all of these, all of these things are still there. You're not, you're not getting away from them.
Totally. I, the, the, the good thing is they're, they're putting me in a hotel.
I don't know, which is. you were in a room before by yourself. That was dangerous.
They're paying for a rent. I have a work truck waiting for me out there.
It sounds like a good deal, except that you're going with you and I'm worried about you.
Yeah. I would just say, if you were to do this from a financial aspect, I would put, I would put some parameters around it and I would, I w. I mean, things like, like GA is so great. I mean, the 12 step stuff is so good to plug into gamblers and yes, being in a weekly group. I mean, honestly, it's like these practices that you put yourself in front of.
continue to work on the shame. It continues to work on the actual act of it. I mean, I just, I think it's, I don't know.
So I, I, without having, without making sure you're healed or in a healing process, just taking off to Waco is a bad idea. So if you, if you're engaged in some kind of healing process and Waco is part of that process, great. But running away and you following you is a bad plan. This is the Ramsey show.
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It's common sense. for your dollars and cents. This is the Ramsey show.
Proving that having common sense is somewhat like having a superpower. today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. in the lobby of Ramsey solutions. We have a wonderful thing called the debt free stage.
When people stand on it, they do their debt free screams. We do the show on the glass for five days a week, from one to four every afternoon. You're welcome to stop by and join us here in Nashville. Anthony and Susan are on the debt free stage. Welcome, guys.
Hey, where do you guys live?
St. Louis, Missouri.
Oh, wow. Nice. Well, welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid off?
We paid off $54,773.
Very good. And how long did that take?
About eight months.
Good for you. And wow. And your range of income during that time?
Yeah, we went from making $165,365 in 2022 to $266,678 last year.
Oh, my gosh.
Jumped $100,000.
. Yeah. What do y'all do for a living? So I'm a nurse.
She's a registered nurse. And I'm a precision plater for a defense company.
Okay. So what y'all do? just like work overtime out your ears, or promotions or what?
12 hours a day, seven days a week.
Y'all went nuts.
Oh, my gosh.
What kind of debt was the $55,000?
It was. the big bulk of it was student loans and also a Discover card. And then we had a lot of smaller stuff, like jewelry loan. We had phones that we owed money on. We had a 401k loan.
Y'all were like normal.
Pretty normal.
Yeah. And normal sucks. Yeah, it did. So you woke up and said, this sucks. How long y'all been married?
15 years. So 14 years. This has gone by. Yeah. And what happened a year ago?
What was the blow? What was the blow up? What was the Ramsey connection?
Well, a year ago was about a year of us really being stressed out with having a lot of debt. And we would, I remember we were like always sitting in the hot tub that we, of course, got a loan for finance and complaining about, like, the burden of the debt and what do we need to do to get through it?
That is a great picture. Yeah. Yeah.
It was pretty crazy.
I'm sitting in my finance hot tub whining about the debt. Right. Yeah. And it's so great.
I actually had an injury where I had to have a medical procedure done and I was
out of work for three months and that put the pinch on stuff.
It did. Yeah.
And you went, oh, this crap ain't working.
Yeah. We took a 401k loan out to try to cover that span of time, and then the credit card just took off because it wasn't enough. And so at that point, we knew that something had to change.
So at the point, OK, so the pressure built up, gave you a wake up call. Then what'd you do?
Well, we had your book sitting on our shelf for three months, the total money for a long time, the total money, makeover. And we started to read it probably three or four years prior because we wanted to change things, but we didn't think we had a big enough problem when we dove into it. Well, God put it on our hearts at the beginning of last year that we could, we could change. And the book was staring us in the face. So picked it up and and read it within a couple of days, started really listening to the podcast and and watching you on YouTube.
And then we just we buckled down and we started to create a budget. We used the EveryDollar app and that that was the game changer.
Was there one of you guys that was more like hardcore? We got to start. We got to start more urgent about it. Or were you both pretty equal?
I think he started things off, but then we were together wanting to get rid of the debt.
OK, yes, yes. In that process. So what was the hardest part for you guys for eight months? I mean, you're working insane hours and I mean, you're doing a lot.
You went crazy in a great way. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it was like he's working all the time. So I'm taking care of everything at the house and the kids.
And the scariest thing for me, honestly, was putting my 401k on hold because I've always invested like 10 percent. And he was like, we have to do this. And I was like, I don't know, but we did it. And that was the scariest thing. And the weird thing is only eight months.
It didn't hurt. No, it didn't hurt. We ended up doing the whole year and saving more money. And this year we started with a new investor. And my 401k is like doing better than ever before.
So, OK, yeah, funny, how that works.
Yeah, we hooked up with a smart investor pro and he really sat down with us and explained what we were doing and, you know, like you always say, the reasons we started to understand and she just pulled up a statement the other day. and and that since she started taking some of that advice, the changes have been pretty insane.
Wow. Good for you. So encouraging. Well done. Well done.
Excellent. All right. Now, when people find out you did this, you got completely out of debt and we were just bopping along. Fourteen years of marriage. And then, boom, we get a year of hell and we get out of debt so that we don't have to live in this mess anymore.
When people ask, how do you do that? What do you tell them? The secret to getting out of debt is.
I think for me, the big thing was that you got to go to work, you have to, you have to work hard, you have to, and not only that, you have to get on the same page and create a budget for us. For the longest time, she, Susan, always handled the finances. I was like looking back in ostrich with my head in the sand, like she would come to me and say this is going on. And I I didn't want to hear it because I felt like it stressed me out. And I needed to grow as a man and step up.
And we needed to lock arms and come together and and create a vision for, for for what we wanted the money to do.
So every wife in America just went touchdown.
I don't know if they said touchdown. They probably said, amen, amen. Hallelujah. That's so good. So, so good.
And this had to impact your marriage. then. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Susan, you're not carrying the whole way, the stinking thing on your back.
Right. Right. It's been really awesome sitting down with him. We sit down every week and do the budget, do the bank book together, do everything together, and, you know, it was just me for like the longest time. So that's just.
it's amazing. So, Anthony, did it. when you actually started leaning in and doing it, did it stress you out as much as you thought it would back in the day when you said, I don't want to look at that, I might get stressed.
in the beginning? I wouldn't. It might have stressed me out, because I know for a while it was hard to learn how to be, how to how to compromise. So there were things that I saw that like that, money was going to places that I had no idea. And so I had to learn that, like this, this needs to go there, like this isn't like frivolous or or anything like that.
Like I, because my eyes were open to where the money was going. That makes sense.
So you weren't scared of hard work before. But when you had a reason for your hard work, you went after it.
Kicked it in overdrive. Yeah.
Big time. You kicked it hard. Well done, guys. Well done. I'm so proud of you.
You're heroes, man. Thank you. You're heroes.
And you have three kids. Yes.
Yes. All right. Let's bring them up and introduce them, and give me their names and ages, please.
So our oldest daughter, this is Courtney. She's 14. Hey, Courtney.
Good. Good.
And then our middle daughter is Sophia.
She's 12.
And our youngest daughter, Abigail, is seven.
All right, Miss Abigail. All right. Very cool.
And there's so many families that are in the middle of this journey. And I really think you guys, just being here, is such a beautiful picture that it's possible. Yeah, so possible. Well done. It's amazing.
We've got a one year subscription for every dollar, for you for the premium and another one as well for you to give away to somebody and get them started on it. Way to go, you guys. You're heroes. Very proud of you. Those three beautiful girls.
Lives have been changed by a grown man and a grown woman doing what they're supposed to do. Well done, you guys. Very cool. Anthony and Susan, Courtney, Sophia and Abby from St. Louis, $55,000.
paid off in eight months, making $165,000 and then went to work $266,000.
. Count it down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Three, two, one.
We're debt free!
That is how that is done, man. I mean, all the questions we get. I can't get my husband involved. I can't get my wife involved. That guy just outlined right there.
He just stepped up. That was the most manly, masculine thing I've heard in a long time for that guy. He owned every bit of it and stepped in there, beautifully done.
And so many women were hurt that are running the household on their own. And it's a lonely place to be. And so when you sit down, you end up talking about life. You end up talking. This is where the money's going.
What's going on here? And it's so much. the connection point is so huge.
It's so massive. This is the Ramsey show.
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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality, number one, the bestselling author, my co-host. today, Emily, is with us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Emily. Welcome to the Ramsey show. Good.
How can we help?
Good. So I'm reaching out today. I feel like I'm a Ramsey kid growing up. Your theme song has been like a jingle in the household for the last 26 years of my life. I'm reaching out today and kind of nervous, not sure kind of what to do at this point.
We make just under $100,000 a year, my husband and I. And he is getting ready to hopefully go back to school here in a couple of weeks, just kind of waiting on that official acceptance. And we will be losing about 60 percent of our income. And we are running numbers last night, sitting down and trying to evaluate things. And I'm just not sure what we do with such a large reduction in our income, based on what we kind of saw with our expenses.
Are you guys able to cover the basics on 60 percent or on 40 percent of your income?
Barely. We do have two kids, so we are bearing the price of child care times two. On the positive side, he's old enough. now. He's in his early 30s, where he's going to be going to school on Pell Grants and scholarships, so we don't have to necessarily work on the cash flow in his education, but I'm just kind of concerned with how we're going to structure, like our living expenses.
How long will he be in school for?
Roughly eight to 13 months. And it's a whole, roughly seven days a week, nine to five. They said, don't plan on working during the program because it is such a vigorous course.
Well, that means that means child care is no help at all.
Exactly.
OK, so child care stays there and you're making 40 K. And you can live on that or not. If the answer is no, you can't do it.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't think, you know, and we've looked at a couple different options, you know, my parents are getting ready to retire, but I don't really want them spending their whole retirement.
watching their grandkids five days a week, eight to 10 months is not their whole retirement.
True, true.
Yeah,
I mean, if they want to do it, that's another thing. I mean, they may not want to do it. It may not be an option, but but I mean, what's he going to study?
A electrical line man, so he wants to do high power voltage.
OK, and so he's making 60. now, he'll come out making 80..
Day one, yeah, I think they said apprentices start roughly 45 to 50 an hour flat rate, not including any overtime, you know, so the in-keep.
and his apprenticeship is only a couple of years, and then he'll be making serious money. Yeah, yeah. Is he going to travel? Travel with it?
No, I think he plans to stay local. We bought our house in 2020 for fairly cheap, at a super low interest rate. So we're not really willing to give that up right now.
Because, I mean, if he's traveling, it's a whole different world, even in that world, as you know.
OK, well, here's the thing. It feels like the way you're describing this, that you first decided for him to do this.
And then tried to figure out if you could afford it rather than the other way around.
Like you, should have figured out if you could afford it before he decided to do it, because his primary job is to not become a high wire guy. His primary job is to feed his family.
Yep, and if he can't do that, then he can't do this.
Yep, and he talked about picking up like a part time job or working with his current employer to see if he can work odd end hours to kind of fill those gaps.
But they said not to do that.
Yeah, they didn't recommend it until they kind of get into, like the core of the program. So he's been working towards this roughly about six years. He paid off roughly seven thousand dollars in debt because currently we've done step one, we've been working on step two. But as soon as he started to get the beginning of the acceptance, we kind of froze step two for a minute to say, OK.
How much did you guys have left, Emily?
For our debt? Yeah. Not including our mortgage, about thirty five thousand.
OK. On what?
Student loans, a vehicle, and then we put a new roof on our house after we purchased it.
How much do you owe on the vehicle?
I want to say roughly five thousand.
Is there a way for him to delay this like a year? And you guys get in a position where you pay off debt, you. Can get savings or like any level of traction.
If you had no debt and had your emergency fund fully funded, you could probably see your way through this a lot more to Rachel's point.
Yeah, and that's something he's considered. I just know the program he's currently in, you know, put it off and talked about it and applied.
And so what? No, that really matters. If you have hungry children. When?
Yeah.
So, you know, it's tough income is a scary grown up land. Yeah. You got to do what you have to do to feed your family first and then you do this. So you'd be in a much better condition if you said, I'm going to intentionally spend this next year getting our crap together, so that when I do this, it doesn't put my family in jeopardy, because you're really calling, saying you can't figure out how you're doing this. You keep saying we're barely going to make it.
But what you're really saying is, is we can't make it. OK, aren't you?
Well, looking at the numbers, I think it's slightly doable, but then again, getting out of our comfort zone of our current lifestyle and getting into that new lifestyle and I'm just I can handle you.
I mean, you can give up your comfort zone. That's what you know, that's nothing. It's not comfort zone. I'm concerned about. It's food.
Yeah, you know, the necessities will be met. That's our biggest thing. You know, I'm just worried about, you know, any additional expenses or things that come up.
How much is your house payment?
A thousand.
And your take home pays thirty three hundred.
Yes.
And you're going to run the rest of this household on twenty three hundred bucks a month, including thirty five thousand dollars worth of debt.
Bull. that's that.
Well, yeah, that's all right. Yeah. The numbers aren't crunching.
No, they're not crunching at all.
Yeah.
So they're crunching, but it's not a good sound or crunch.
Yeah.
Yeah, I.
Yeah, I, I would wait, Emily, I don't. I'm not a dream killer, but I love killing nightmares, yeah, and so I don't want to kill his dream. But if his dream to us, his whole family, you know, you call me back eight months from now, you know, he went. But we're in foreclosure.
You know, I don't. I'm not going to sign you up for that and and have my stamp of approval, I want him to go do this, but I want him to do it in such a way that he doesn't put all of you guys in jeopardy. and he he doesn't want to put you guys in jeopardy. But you just you guys, have not thought this through until last night.
Yeah, so we've been, you know, looking at stuff and, you know, I've pretty much run our budget, I mean, he's not a spender.
It's not the question. I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I'm saying you guys together have not thought this through until last night. And you have to. Stephen Covey says one of the seven habits of highly effective people is they begin with the end in mind.
And last night you did that for the first time on this and it took your breath away, and that's why you called.
Yeah, because I just wasn't sure, I know.
So here's what I'm going to tell you. If I were in your shoes, here's what I would do. My first choice would be for him to wait a year. Rachel's suggestion is excellent. And if it, if it takes 18 months or if it puts the whole thing in jeopardy, so be it, I'll call that God.
And so God put it in jeopardy, because God says don't do things where you can't feed your own family. Those that don't take care of their own household first are worse than an unbeliever Bible. OK, so we're going to call it that. Now, the if. but I am, but I am convinced that if he can get in there this round, he can probably get in another round.
So that's choice. one. Choice, two is you guys look around there and figure out how we're going to increase our income above your base, and mom and dad are going to commit to keep the kids and drop your daycare bill, because your daycare bill is probably what? Two grand a month. Yeah.
Honey, your daycare in your house and you don't have any money left for food. I just did that.
Yeah, so that's right. And we're looking at child care alternatives and reaching out.
Yeah, trying to find what is your child care? Two grand a month. Yeah, plus a thousand. Three thousand. Your take home's thirty three hundred.
Your budget's not tight. It's impossible. You cannot go forward unless you adjust something. It's fantasy. OK, you don't have any.
that that's just ding, ding. So adjust the child care, sell a car, take six jobs. He works on the side, even though he's not supposed to.
For eight months, you grind it out like that.
And for eight months, you pay a price for him to get to be this. I'm OK with paying a price to win, but I'm not OK paying a price knowing I'm going to lose. That's a bad idea.
It's one life event away from to your point, foreclosure, a car.
No, I can't even make it. It's not, it's not. It's one month away. Yes. You can't even get to the food budget here.
This is the Ramsey show.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships, I'm, Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. America. Open phones at Triple Eight, eight to five, five to two, five. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.
And we're happy to talk to you, America, about your life and your money. So when I wrote the first book, I ever wrote, Financial Peace in 1994.. Raise your hand if you weren't born yet, OK?
They did in the lobby.
Yeah. When I wrote that book, I proposed a concept in our seminars that we were doing in those days. And it was a different world in 1994..
Sure. Yeah. And the 90s are back a little bit.
I proposed a concept and I got so much. On the first times I got just showered in hate.
Oh, I can't wait.
It was fabulous. And so the concept was this. And I don't remember the exact numbers, but they were a whole lot lower than they are today. So I'll make up some numbers that would be similar to what they probably were. I said something like if a lady is making thirty thousand dollars a year at her job.
She has two kids and daycare is a thousand dollars a month and she buys clothing, professional clothing to go to that job, and she dry cleans the professional.
Because in the 90s, you were wearing suits to go to that job for a lot of well,
they weren't. you know, they weren't wearing sweatpants to work in those days or your pajamas. And so it's a different world, like I said. And if she were, and if, because she was working, she didn't prepare meals from scratch at home, because time and fatigue, the family would go out to eat more and they would spend from scratch.
But just meaning like, well,
could spend more on pre-prepared things or going out to eat. Yeah. Because of fatigue. Ordering pizza, because I'm tired and I don't feel like cooking.
Or the husband is choosing not to cook.
Yes. Well, whatever. I'm just saying. And so 1994, I just hang with me here. But, and I propose that if you add all of these things up, making twenty eight thousand dollars a year, paying a thousand dollars a month for child care, these other things added in after taxes come out and gasoline to drive to said job and wear and tear on the car to drive to said job.
When you take all of those things out, she's probably losing money working.
And it might be cheaper, net, net, net, net, net to stay home with the kids if she wants to, I didn't say she should be at home barefoot and pregnant. I did not say that. I said if she chooses to and wants to be at home. Now, people said I said a lot of things I didn't say, but that's exactly what I said. But even on the premise that she can't afford, she's not making enough to justify working, yes, or he's with the expenses at that time.
Yeah. And I caught hell for suggesting that net of daycare, net, of all these other expenses, she might not be making anything, as you know, because I did some math and. That blame, if I didn't get blamed for the other side of that, not that, but the other way of what I'm not understanding the cost of daycare and that you can't afford to work because of the cost of daycare, the stinking Wall Street Journal, some woman writes an article trash and recently not.
No, just the other day.
Just the other day said. I said on the air that that women that they can't that daycare is is ridiculous. And so you just need to shut up and go to work. I didn't say that at all. I've said quite the opposite since nineteen, ninety, freaking four.
And I get I don't. if you're going to hate me, hate me for the right thing. OK, if you're going to do something, don't pick out something. he actually said.
OK, but I think they clipped. I think there was a clip of you saying that's a ridiculous amount to pay for child care. And they clipped that not knowing the whole call.
Well, of course, because it's the freaking media.
I know. But that's specific.
Some idiot on TikTok.
Yes, that specific guy was paying.
He was, but he was paying like twenty eight thousand dollars for one kid. Yeah, that is dumb.
Well, I don't. Yes. No, right now. Yes. Average right now is sixteen thousand.
Yeah. OK, so depending on where you are, if you're in New York City and Manhattan, that is going to look different.
That guy was calling in. He was trying to put his kid.
I don't remember. I don't remember. No, I don't know.
It was Gucci daycare signing up, for. I don't know. His upper lip was sunburned. His nose was in the air. I don't know.
Yes, I do.
No, we don't. No, we don't. But I am not.
I'm on quite the other side of what I got blamed for, which is what I'm upset for. I did not. I mean, I'll talk about that particular instance. It's like somebody calling up and going, I'm paying forty six thousand dollars a year for my child to attend a private elementary school and I make sixty thousand dollars a year. What do you think of that?
I think you're a moron. That's what I think of that. OK, you can't do math. Your kid shouldn't be in a school that fancy. OK, because you're just stuck up.
That's all that is. And that's what this guy was. It had nothing to do with the actual cost of daycare.
I think I think the thing is, it is such a. it's such a hard subject because, unlike ninety four, you fast forward to today where it is. It's like child care. It's ludicrous. Thirty to almost forty percent in some areas since like 2019..
It really is going up faster than tuition. I know that.
Yeah, for working moms and so and parents.
No, it's not different than I thought. So the exact same thing is true. Some people now, with the cost of daycare, aren't making money.
That's right. I agree.
I totally agree. So I'm still saying the same thing.
Yes. No, I know.
I know I'm getting hated for saying the other thing that I didn't say.
I know. But I think, too, the conversation of a household income, because so many families are dual income and a lot of families are dual income and make on average, right, like in that in that 60, 70 range per year. Yep. And then in order to pay the mortgage and have the food.
I mean, like these days, mama might be making more than daddy. A hundred percent. Not unusual at all.
Yeah, that's. the other option is that that the that the dad is the one who goes home.
I don't care. That's not the point. It's a math thing is all I'm looking at.
And the problem is, though, again, people are getting to this place now because it's risen so quickly that it's that they're having to look now at exactly what you're saying, at the options of like, oh, my gosh. And I've known some moms that they're like, I got to go home. Like I have three kids under the age of five, and we can't afford it. Literally can't afford it.
Or you make $40,000 a year today and you have three kids under the age of five in daycare. You're not making money. I know. That's that nineteen ninety four, example into twenty four dollars.
Right. Right. Twenty, twenty four dollars. I know. And there's some other.
there's some, you know, other ways you can look at it.
I mean, there's. you've got to find an alternative child care situation. if you're going to work in that situation. Yes, yes. And because you're not actually making money.
Yep. You're working and going backward.
And what's hard is for the single mom to who does it's almost impossible. Yeah. Who almost doesn't even have that. Here's the other thing.
Sixteen thousand, the average nationally, this includes expensive markets, inexpensive markets. Yes. And it includes expensive daycares and inexpensive daycares. And so there's a lot of ways to skin the cat. There's a lot of ways to take care of the kids.
But it is a valid thing to sit and look at it as a family and make and make a call. and the values. Yes. But people don't use. they get emotional because it's the issue is their children and their brains melt down.
Yeah. And they quit doing math.
Because as a mom with little kids who work, you go through some of these places. You're like, I don't want to. I don't feel comfortable sending my kid here, too. Don't? there's?
I know, I know. But it's the idea that it's. it's a. it's a hard subject for a lot of people.
It is.
OK, so we left everyone with. we're not going to keep the rant going, how hard.
that subject is, how high child care is and how hard it is. Yes, it is high and it is hard. The trick is to not be irrational. And justify stupid numbers, because you love your children.
Love of your children does not make math go away. Math still will roost. It'll still come home. So we want to help you face this high cost. And if you go to Ramsey Solutions dot com, we have a blog there called 13 Ways to Afford the High Cost of Child Care.
Almost like everyone at Ramsey knows that child care is high. Just in case some of you on TikTok weren't listening. We're aware that child care cost is high, but that does not mean that you suddenly get a pass on math. The cost of real estate in Manhattan is high. But some of you can't afford to live there because of math.
It's that simple, the cost of real estate in Tokyo is high and some of you can't afford to live there because of math. So we'll help you with this. But I'm not going to help you with denial or the system is broken. So I'm going to ignore math. No, that's not what.
we're not going to go down that alley.
No, but there are some. there are some different ways, creative ways to kind of look at it. And one of the options is what we talked about in the last segment was maybe one one parent decides to stay home. Right. Like, maybe it gets to a point.
that's a valid option.
Yeah. So here's the interesting thing. I'll add one more thing. I said we weren't going to extend the rent, but now we are. OK.
There are parents out there right now. With this thing, you and I have talked about this at length. Mom guilt. If you work, you're guilty because you're not home. If you're home, you feel guilty because you're not working.
Moms can't win. Yep. They got guilt either way. Society and heaps on them. They help keep it on themselves.
If I'm at work, I feel guilty because I'm not home with the kids. If I'm at home with the kids, I feel guilty because I'm not using my degree and I'm not out making money. And so you just can't get away from it. Guys, don't struggle from this, by and large. Yeah, the mom guilt is.
the mom guilt is a very real thing. So in the midst of that statement, there are ladies who really would prefer. To be at home with their children, and have never sat down and done the math that says you should be. And so this sets you free to stay at home. I want to set you free if that's you.
Yes. If you, if you're a professional lady, Rachel's in the workplace, my other daughter works. If you're a professional lady in the workplace, I'm not trying. We're not trying to say you should go home or you're not a good mom. We're not saying that at all.
We're saying, if that's your choice to be at home, but you feel, like you should, that the family needs money for working and yet you're not netting anything. I'm this math is going to give you permission to go home.
Yes, there's a value, a dollar value for stay at home moms. The amount of work that they do.
No question. For sure. Ashley in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Ashley. Welcome to the Ramsey show.
Hi, y'all. Hey, what's up?
Well, I mean, to continue off of what y'all are talking about. How do my husband and I pay off debt, rebuild our savings and potentially have another baby while living in this world where expenses keep increasing, like daycare and rent?
What do y'all make? What's household income?
We both make eighty thousand.
Do you make one sixty?
Yeah, you make one hundred sixty thousand dollars.
Well, our joint.
Well, that would be how much debt you guys have.
So I have. so we are renting twenty three hundred and then obviously like power and all that stuff.
How much do you owe? Just debt.
Yeah, we have. we have no car notes, car loans. My car is paid off, but she is reaching two hundred thousand miles. And my husband has an old Blazer that we just can't rely on.
If you have any debt, Mark, what debt do you guys have?
So I have two credit cards, one is thirty seven hundred that I'm making minimum payments on, unfortunately, one was charged off recently. My other card, which is about 15.. And I'm pretty sure there's some medical debt floating around.
How long have you all been making one hundred and sixty thousand and over spending?
The hundred and sixty just happened this year.
What were you making in the other years?
Uh, well, it really rocked us. Sixty day, furlough turned into over a year. And then I took a job for fifty thousand and I just got back up to eighty.
What was your husband making?
Um, he's been slowly progressing as well. So probably about 60 and just got to 80 as well.
OK, so you are around that 100 mark for a while.
So here's what's happened, OK? You went through a downturn in your incomes and you slowly progressed back to and beyond where you were before. And you. Faster than your income, went up. Your spending went up.
Because you didn't give me anywhere, nothing you've given me so far tells us where one hundred and sixty thousand dollars is going, I have no idea why you should be this broke.
How in the world you have a three thousand dollar credit card charged off. making one hundred and sixty means you're out of control, disorganized and chaotic in your house.
So the credit card, I haven't put anything on a credit card in years. This is like really.
But why do you pay it off? You make one hundred and sixty grand. It's three thousand dollars because you didn't have any money, because all your money is going to restaurants. And trips you can't afford.
We're not eating out, we're not going on trips. I'm not getting my meals done. I haven't got my hair. Seriously.
Where's your money going? Seriously, where's all your money going? then? If you're in control and you have a budget laid out, where's your one hundred and sixty thousand going? Because it's not going to rent.
You don't have that much. How much is not going to debt? Twenty three hundred. She told us. your rent's low.
You don't have any debt. Where's your money going?
All of our money goes to bills.
What bills?
We don't have any bills.
This is hilarious.
Yeah. What bills do you have?
Don't yell at her.
What bills do you have?
Hello?
I'm sorry. What bills do you have?
All our bills combined are $4,000 a month.
Okay. That's $2,300 for rent. What's the other $1,700?.
$1,250 for daycare, which keeps going up year over year.
Yeah, it does. Okay.
And then power, electricity, all the basic minimum.
So did you say $4,000 a month? Did I hear you right? Correct. That's $48,000 a year.
And then plus child care.
No, no, no. That includes child care. Did it? The $4,000 is $1,250 for child care. So that's $48,000 out of 160..
So somewhere I'm still missing $102,000.
Taxes. Okay.
Somewhere. I'm still missing almost $100,000.. That's what I'm talking about.
This is recent. And then any money that we have left over is going into the snowball method.
How much is left over per month that you guys have?
About $500.
I'm sorry.
$500.
We're just dumping that into savings.
$500.
Okay. Something's really, really, really, really off in your math, because you gave me $48,000 worth of debt. $500 is $6,000.. That's $54,000 out of 160.. I'm still over $100,000..
It's missing, not counting taxes. You following this?
Are you looking at a yearly number? I am. Monthly.
I am. $500 a month, is $6,000 a year.
Hold on, Ashley, how much do you guys, how much hits your checking account every month? income wise, after taxes? What do you guys bring home now?
I get $1,800 every two weeks.
And what about that?
That's around the same thing as well.
Okay.
That's not $160,000 a year.
Before taxes.
Yeah. How much you got? You got money going in your 401k?
No.
Okay. You have way too much withholding.
Okay. You guys need to. I'll tell you what. Hold on. Here's what we're going to do.
I can't break this because I can't break her.
So I'm going to hook you up with one of our financial counselors, Ashley, who can sit down and calmly go through this and try to explain it to you, because I can't. Nothing you're saying makes sense. These numbers are $50,000, $60,000 off. She's just so far off. It's unbelievable.
And so there's something else going on with your math here. I don't know where your money is going. You don't know where your money is going. All you figured out is that it's not working. And so you guys have got to sit down, because $160,000 a year is not $1,800 every two weeks times two.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Our event season is in full swing. We have three events coming up where you can experience the Ramsey teachings live and in person, with thousands of people, just like you. Our next one is the Total Money Makeover Weekend event. Rachel and me, Dr.
John Deloney, Ken Coleman, Jade, George, all of us will be speaking at this two day ultimate motivator event to get fired up and wired up to live the life you've always wanted, tell every dollar what to do, make every dollar, behave and learn to win with money, get out of debt, become wealthy, be outrageously generous. We're going to show you how to do every bit of it. May 10th and 11th, here on our campus. We're already half sold out. So if you want to come, you need to get your tickets immediately.
Then, on May 21st and 22nd, I'm going to be doing a virtual event with George Camel helping me as we unpack not only the basics of investing, but the Dave Ramsey's investing essentials, something I've never done before. I'm going to open my playbook, my personal playbook on real estate. I own several hundred million dollars worth. And I'll show you what I've done and how I've done it. And it's not a tick tock video.
It's not easy, but I can show you how to really do it. I've actually done it. It's not a theory for me. I don't live in my mother's basement. So we're going to walk this, walk, this through for you.
Then Rachel and Dr. John Delaney will be doing the money and marriage getaway October 24th and 26th through the 26th, that is here on our campus as well. Spend a weekend away with your spouse in Nashville and with Dr. John Delaney and Rachel Cruz, real life answers.
To real marriage questions gets a little dicey in there sometimes, I'm just saying, but you're going to love the event, you're going to learn a lot. It's pretty incredible. So any of these three things you can get at Ramsey Solutions dot com slash events. And they all three are likely to be sellouts well before. So get your tickets quickly on the debt free stage.
in the Ramsey Solutions headquarters lobby is Tyler and Jesse. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve, man.
Tell me, where do you guys live?
Worcester, Ohio.
Cool. What's that near? Akron, Akron. All right, cool. And how much debt have you guys paid?
Two hundred eighty nine thousand dollars.
Oh, how long did that take?
Forty four months.
Good for you. And your range of income.
We started at one hundred sixteen and now we make one hundred sixty nine.
Good. What do you guys do for a living?
I'm a firefighter and I'm a physical therapist.
Very cool. Awesome. Very cool. What was the two eighty nine? What kind of debt?
It was two car loans and then most of it was a student loan.
Wow. Nice, y'all.
Good for you guys. How long y'all been married?
Four years today.
Oh, happy anniversary. They said it in unison. That was perfect. Great. Very cool, you guys.
So somebody comes out with a bunch of student loans. Maybe physical therapy could be, I don't know,
possible doing a P.
T. degree. Yeah. And you guys get married and you go, OK, cleanup time. Tell me how that happened and what the conversation sounded like.
How'd you plug into Ramsey?
So I grew up. My parents did the Dave Ramsey program, the Baby Steps. And so when I graduated in 2017 with my doctorate degree, I asked my dad, I'm like, what do I do about this? And he said, you need to read, you know, Total Money Makeover, and you need to get signed up for FPU. It'll be the best money I've ever spent.
And so I went to FPU a year before meeting Tyler. And then I met Tyler at work. We started dating the next year. We started talking about marriage and I said, OK, I want you to go through this course with me.
And you need to know what comes with me.
Yes, that's right. Yeah.
So we had the, we had the talk, the money talk. Yeah. How long had you been dating before you disclosed hundreds of thousands of student loan debt?
Two months. Yeah. Get this out of the way.
All right. Just see if he's a keeper or not. Right. Yeah.
So great. Oh, my gosh. OK, so for four years you've been doing this. So pretty much since you've been married, you guys have been on this. OK, so how hard was that?
Because I feel like, especially when you have a new event, like whether it's marriage or a baby, or you graduate from college, like whatever it is, you kind of want to jump into a new season and just enjoy life. So how, how hard was it being newlyweds, knowing like we're buckling down and doing this?
It was rough. I mean, we got married during the pandemic.
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
And so my income actually reduced.
You got married at the height of the pandemic. Yeah, about the time the quarantine started.
Yeah, we were on shutdown whenever we got married.
Yeah, this is like this is this is the end of March. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. And it's your anniversary. Yeah.
Whoa. OK, so yeah.
So the whole pandemic, you guys were doing this. Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. Trying to get my income reduced by half because my outpatient hours were reduced. So it's just amazing, because I actually found other opportunities screening in the E.D. on third shift, going in, you know, doing cash based physical therapy in people's homes that didn't want to go out in the community. Yeah, God really showed up.
Yeah. She got after it, too.
Wow. You were getting it. Good for y'all.
Amazing. Wow.
So you get married right at the quarantine and then you go wide open into this thing. So what was the hardest part of the whole journey?
I think the hardest part was just not playing the comparison game and walking our own path. You know, we're at an age right now where everybody in our life is making different milestones. And, you know, we just had to celebrate ours, you know, through the debt snowball. The way it's set up, you can still celebrate while you're paying off your debt. So, yeah.
What do you think? Yeah. Yeah. Just just got to shut up and do it.
I mean, you just yeah.
You know, I think what got me through is that I was hearing the debt free screams of all these other people who, you know, lost a spouse or, you know, you know, just different things.
Hard life stuff. Yeah.
And, you know, it's like, OK, they can do what's my excuse.
You know, it's our excuse. How much did you guys work? Would you say what was like at the peak? How many hours a week was like the? oh, gosh, we were like animals.
We, we would go whole weeks without seeing each other because we worked opposite schedules. with my job. I think I sometimes was like somewhere around 60, 65 hours in a week.
Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
Yeah. As a fireman, I could go upwards of 100 hours a week. But, you know, sometimes we get to sleep, but not always. It's not guaranteed by any stretch.
So, besides work and income, what's the other part of this that you would tell somebody, you know, the key, what's the key, what's the thing?
The number one thing to get out of that.
Oh, just just take every opportunity you can to increase your income. I know we did. We just went after every certification. We're at work anyways. We're spending hours anyways.
Let's just do that, too. Let's try to get, you know, our time worth more. And then also to at home, just making meals at home, packing lunches. We made our own laundry detergent. I mean, just, you know, all these little things that really add up.
Yeah. And just to add on to that, you know, we're lucky enough that the phase of life we're in, we don't have children yet. Anything like that. So we took this time for a lot of professional development. Like our life wasn't on hold really, because we've developed a lot.
So that's another way. Yeah, for sure.
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