Camila Cabello

Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. I'm Dan Rather. I'm joined by Monica Paust. Hi. That's your French name.

Ooh, I want to be French.

And people don't know if they should call you Paust or Poust. Monica Poust? Is it Monica Poust or Monica Paust?

I, um, and I'll be very French about it and I'll be very snobby.

You won't answer, right? Yeah. You'll just go like, oh.

Oh, oui, oui.

Oh, we like it, though. We love the French though.

Yeah, I love the French.

They hate us. They hate our guts.

I know. That's why we love them.

Yeah. So charming that they hate us.

Oh, so flattering.

Oh, it makes it so much more fun interviewing people who know all the background, inside jokes and everything.

Yes.

Camila is a Grammy nominated singer and songwriter. Her albums include Camila, Romance, Familia, and her new album, CXOXO, is out June 28th. But people will already be partying to. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. And people might have heard from Fact Check.

Our Fact Check. Yes, we did an Easter egg.

Yeah. My daughters have, for whatever reason, forbade me to listen to that song. That cutoff, apparently in their eyes, is somewhere before 49.. What would I say that north of, south of?

I think south of.

I think you're going south, right? You're going down.

Oh, this is like the downhill, uphill thing.

So I'm going to say they've decided you have to be north of 49.

Do you think maybe they had a make out to the song? And so the fact that you're singing it is just too much.

I don't think so, but that could happen in a few years. Yeah, it's coming. Oh, gross. This is my like. make out song with my.

My dad's singing it.

And now that I'm realizing my boyfriend looks like my dad. Gross, why do we do this? Please enjoy our new friend, Camila Cabello. He's an armchair experimenter.

He's an armchair experimenter.

He's an armchair experimenter.

Hi.

Please excuse my four minute tardiness. Oh my God, no, don't worry. Hi.

Hi there, welcome.

It's so nice to meet you guys. I am such a huge fan.

No way. So nice. Can I tell you? Not possible.

My mom's like, are you excited? I tell Liz all the time.

Yes, I can believe you, because, Liz, they're friends. Oh, you guys are?

Yes.

But you didn't bring your mom to this. You brought her to call her daddy.

Oh, okay.

Well, I'm sure that's our fault. I'm sure we said no one should.

You guys were like, mom.

Moms can make vulnerable conversations difficult.

To be honest, and I'm not just saying this, not my mom. My mom is very.

Cool. I have the same one. That's nice.

I would not want my mom in here.

I wouldn't want my dad to hear most things I talk about.

But my mom is okay.

Guys, you have no idea. When I tell you.

Tell us, we love hearing it. Say more.

I know the history of the chair and that you used to sweat in the other one.

Still sweat in this one.

Right, but you can't see it.

Maybe you'll tell us something about us. we don't even know about ourselves.

Oh, my God, I can't wait.

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't know. I only know from what I've heard on the episodes.

What do you hold? Because you were holding something in the other interview. I just watched of you. And I thought it was a vape, but it seems to be a lip moisturizer.

Yeah, it's just some Aquaphor. I think I just like holding things. Yeah. If you saw my Call Her Daddy, one, that was my first interview that I've done in so long. I was so fucking nervous.

Aaron Winkley, he's here. Right.

I know all about it.

First of all, you're so stunning. It's kind of overwhelming. Yeah, you are.

Well, I didn't expect you to be so, like, jacked. Wait, can we stop and pause?

We have to stop and pause. Because Dax says that no women notice that. And you just proved me 100% correct.

No, I'm sure women notice that, but I'm saying it like, you know how bros will be like, bro, you're so jacked. Right.

I'm saying it in a bro way. Also, don't you think there's a safety in the fact that I'm 60 years older than you?

100%. I'm literally saying that to you as objectively, like I'm growing up. But that's what I'm saying.

And not even in a sexual way or a romantic way. He just says women don't notice it, and they obviously do. And I say they do, and he's just never wanting to hear it.

I think also because I listen to the podcast so much. You know how you put a face or a physicality to a voice? Yeah. And then, when I met you guys, I was like, whoa, this is like the real thing. You know what I mean?

Yeah, 3D. Totally.

Because features get really blurry on pictures.

Well, I don't think, I don't feel very photogenic.

I used to be when I was one.

When you were a baby. Most photogenic baby of all time.

I was super cute.

How cute is that baby?

Really so cute. And I felt like such a creep because I recognized that it was baby. you instantly. I was like, is that baby Monica? I feel like I'm literally president of the fan club.

And you're afraid people are going to be like, get over yourself. You're fucking beautiful. Right. Look, but all things are true.

I know one side of my face looks fucking crazy on pictures. There is one side of my face where I literally look like a different person. And one side of my face where I'm like, wow, I look like a supermodel.

Same, same. So I'm curious.

Uh, oh, which one?

Oh, that's the right one.

Oh, good.

Yeah, no, thank you. Okay, so, Kristen and I kind of are made in heaven because she has that side and I have that side. And when we stand next to each other, it's always the correct side. It's perfect. You and I could be bros.

So wait, so you think-.

Like, stand up.

So we have the same-.

Because this is my good side and that's your good side, right?

No, that's good. Oh, wow. How cute.

But the hard part is when it was like the other way and we'd have to do like the prom picture. Yeah. Because we have the same good side, which happens and you get creative. Or you just embrace the bad side and you're like, I promise you, I'm cuter than this. This is me.

Okay, now, super self-indulgent, but I feel like it'll be informative. When did you start listening? And who turned you on to it? Because I want to say you were dating Sean when we interviewed him.

Yes, I was, yes. Okay. Because I remember we were both such huge fans of the show and he was so nervous to be on the show. And I was like, I don't feel like I was even ready to be on the show until this point in my life. Wow.

Was there a guest that got you to check it out?

For some reason, the David Sedaris episodes are really- because you guys have like four with him.

Yeah, he's our guest.

Yeah, yeah, David Sedaris returns. But I can't remember- I listen to a lot of the actors that are on the show and David Sedaris.

Okay, now, why were you nervous to be on Call Her Daddy? Just because it had been a long time since you were interviewed?

Yeah, it had been a long time and I was like, fuck, anything that I haven't talked about, it's all going to come up in this one interview. Yeah.

Did anything naughty. come up that you were like, ugh?

Yeah, but I feel like I was okay. Like, I knew the Sean stuff was going to come out. I knew the group stuff was going to- I love that. I'm just bullet pointed. This means I've really overcome my fear.

Cheat, cheat for me. Yeah, exactly.

I just had forgotten how to be public for a bit.

What were you doing?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just stopped being a public facing personality.

And it was a conscious decision, right?

Yeah, it was a conscious decision. I think I just needed to do it for my mental health. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, when I'm talking about it with my therapist and stuff, it's really healthy to be who you are out loud.

And who cares? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And who fucking cares? Yeah.

Fuck you guys. I'm kidding.

Suck a dick, motherfuckers. I'm here.

Yeah, the thing that I- and we just had a guest on that I was bonding with over- Tiffany Haddish. It'll be out by then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the thing she and I both had- the feels we maybe have a touch of is it's a power thing for me. It's a control thing.

That is the power move.

I'm not giving you the power to whisper, and, oh, she doesn't want to, you know. It feels way more empowering.

This is extremely timely. I probably shouldn't say it, but I'm going to.

Is it gossipy? Yeah.

Well, no, it's not gossipy, but-.

I love some hot goss, for sure.

So, right before I got here, I got some information about a previous guest whose publicist has reached out. So, there's all these articles about this person that are-.

Ridiculous.

So ridiculous.

You mean frivolous?

It's Maya. Rudolph? Yes.

Oh, so it's excerpts from the episode that she did.

I don't know what they're saying. There's something happening, I guess, where they're calling her a Nepo baby, and they're referring to this episode. But there's no reference of Nepo baby. There's nothing.

But also, I feel like it's also kind of a neutral phrase. What? Like, if you are a Nepo baby, why does it matter? Then you just are.

Let's add, nepotism cannot get you on to Saturday Night Live for seven years, where you score every night. What the fuck are we talking about?

Exactly.

Nepotism's, like the dumb, dumb son running the Fortune 500 company that he inherited.

It's not literally the obvious talent that Maya Rudolph possesses.

Yeah. So, I don't know what they're saying, because I haven't looked, but it is so annoying that someone decided to grab onto something.

You can't control other people's stupidity and their moods and how they fucking want to react to you. And don't give them the credit. Now I'm 27, and I think I'm finally really letting go of what people think of me as just none of my business. I can only control being me. And, like you said, if you're upfront about all of your shit, then it's like, well, you can't say it to me first.

Yeah, good.

I'm just like, I can't. It is hard to know, right? I'm writing about my childhood right now.

Are you writing a memoir, a book?

I am, yeah, yeah. Oh, my God.

That's so exciting.

And I'm describing why. I had to read out loud, and I was stuttering and fucking, chorting and making all these weird noises, trying to sound out shit. And I could see my face. The freckles, there's too many, and it just looked like a cloud of fart gas. It was like yellow freckle gas on my face.

You did like a reading?

I'm talking about the experience of being in class with dyslexia, and they call on you to read. And you're like trying to read a thing, and you're fucking the whole thing up. But there's not only that. I can like see my face fucking it all up. And then I'm describing my freckles and my crooked teeth and my huge overbite.

Like even before you were in the public eye?

Yes, like as a kid, I felt this searing self-consciousness. Like the spotlight effect. Yes, it fucked me up. But then I'm also probably like, no, it's probably standard.

Everyone, yeah.

We all probably are like panicked half the time.

I think, especially if you're sensitive. I find that my favorite people, a lot of the times, for some reason, have some anxiety. Because it makes them really empathetic and sensitive. The people that are just like, I don't care, and blasé about everything are more likely to be dicks sometimes.

Aloof. Monica and I had this little, it wasn't a riff, but she was using an emoji just for a few weeks. I think she was trying it out.

Ooh.

Wait, which one was it? It was the emoji with the girl like throwing her hands up. Oh, yeah, I love her. Which one?

What does she like? conjure? She's wearing a purple shirt. She's like, whatever.

After like 20 of these, I told her, I don't like it. It feels aloof, like you're over everything.

It hurt his feelings.

Yeah, that that emoji's like, I don't give a fuck. And I'm like, I don't really want to interact with someone. that's going.

You want like a panicked emoji? Yeah.

It's kind of weird. It's kind of like you want me to have all. No.

I'm kidding. Yeah. I just don't want you to be over. everything like. Yeah.

I'm super sensitive. Yeah. Whatever.

Sometimes it's funny, though, because it depends on what you're.

I wasn't saying it. You were getting pretty rapid fire with it. I was.

I was getting, oh, fast and loose.

Well, I had to test out all the iterations of it.

Like. are we meeting at 12? No.

I don't fucking know.

We'll see. Figure it out. Maybe. Okay. I was going to ask this question at the very end, but you just said it.

You were a full person.

One argument I can make is like you're already post. You're like, seem to be emotionally and spiritually where I was at, at maybe 39, which is kind of cool. But then I don't know. What are your thoughts?

I don't think I would have changed when I started, because so many parts of my personality today are because of the tools and the skills, and some adaptive and some maladaptive.

Oh, I like that word maladaptive.

Mechanisms that I had to develop to survive and thrive. For example, I'm really into like Buddhism. That would have never happened because I needed those tools, being on stage and being calm and being able to pull through. But also it just carries over to other life stuff where I feel like I'm wiser than I would have been.

Yeah, I don't know how you enter into this huge arousal cycle at like 15, where it's like heightened, heightened, heightened dopamine.

My nervous system is definitely like, oh my God, poor baby.

In my much more minimal experiences than you've had, it is a very heightened experience. And then you get into this, I think, dopamine deficit cycle. When those highs are gone and normal life resumes, it could feel very low. I mean, to me, it would be so obvious. You discovered Buddhism because I got to regulate in some way.

Right. Or the amount of self-growth podcasts like Armchair Expert that I listen to. I listen to so many.

That's a maladaptive one. Yeah, that's a maladaptive one.

There's some adaptive ones. But I listen to a lot of stuff where maybe other people my age weren't listening to that. You grew up fast. I grew up fast, but then there's been times, for example, COVID. I learned how to drive and I learned how to cook, and I was just living the most normal life.

I don't want anything salacious to come out of this, but also you were like-.

I fucking do.

Okay, you- I'm just kidding. You look like this town on fire. I'm a Nepo baby.

Exactly.

You heard it here first. Nepo, baby from Cuba. Yeah, exactly.

I don't even know if there's such a thing.

You were having a domestic experience too during COVID. Yes.

I became a way more well-rounded adult. I was like, what do I like to do? I learned how to fucking ride a bike. I had never ridden a bike before. Oh, my goodness.

Oh, yes, yes. Poor Things. Yeah, I was like, Poor Things.

I left in the beginning of 10th grade, so I never had the high school. My sisters were picking out prom dresses for her now.

Wait, Sophia, is that young?

My sister is 17.

No, I know it.

Wow.

Yeah, okay.

You're such fucking legends. I can't even take it.

I didn't realize there was a 10-year gap.

A 10-year age gap. Yeah, I know. It's crazy.

So she was born here, obviously, then.

She was born here. And she is living all the reckless teenagehood that I didn't. And do you feel jealous? And that I still feel like, do I feel jealous? There were times where I feel like I had bad COVID.

Well, let's start at the beginning. Okay. Because it's fun and unique. Let's start with your dad, because I want to know what's happening where a man from Mexico City decides to emigrate to Cuba.

My mom emigrated to Mexico.

That makes sense.

Yeah, when she was in her, maybe early 20s. She was kind of let down by the revolution. My grandparents were a part of it. And then there started to be the power outages and the lack of food. And that's when she realized, oh, this is not the promise that they sold us.

Can I add one fun thing right there? Yeah. I went to Cuba right when you were allowed to. Kristen was shooting there, and I took the babies there. And we had this amazing, I guess maybe like a fixer.

Yeah, no matter how hard you work or how smart you are, or how high up you get, there is a ceiling. That's it. That's the house. That's the car. Everybody gets.

No homeless people.

Exactly. So my mom and her cousin go to Mexico.

Really quick, was it easy to leave and go to Mexico? Because you weren't allowed to leave and go to the US, right?

You can leave. I think it would have been hard to come back or something like that. I get more and more information as I get older. Immigrant parents are such liars. It's crazy.

Yeah, they do lie a lot.

They lie so much, right? They're like, wow, I didn't know you were fucking married before my death. They're crazy. Wow, secrets.

Things were different then.

I know, yeah, so many secrets. So they go to Mexico. I think my mom was working, as, I don't know if she was an architect or a bottle girl. She was both during her time. What's that?

But she was trained as an architect in Cuba, right?

She was trained as an architect in Cuba. Like you, just bring the bottles to the club.

Oh, like bottle service.

My mom was and is hot.

I don't doubt it. Are she and I the same age? How old? are you? 49..

No, she's older than you. Oh. She's 54..

I'm in.

You're stacking up a lot of people. You already have somebody else's mom too.

I'm an addict, you know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget who it was. Yeah, I have the disease of more. Round them up.

Right. And she's hot too.

Sorry. Yes. I said the wrong word. People obscure me.

Camila Mendes.

No, I said airline stewardess. You can't say that.

Oh, flight attendant. Flight attendant.

Apologies. I didn't know that.

But anyway, she meets my dad. She's a bottle girl at the club. My dad is a bartender.

So he's a stud, because the bartender's always a stud.

Yeah, my dad is a stud. I have to show you a picture of my dad.

Date him too. I'll date him too. Yeah, great.

More, more, more. I have the disease of more. So they start dating after maybe seven months of being friends. And my mom in Mexico, she stayed with a family friend from Cuba. But I'm really proud that I feel like I come from a family of fucking hustlers.

Oh, good friend.

So he was always like-.

He's a stud and a good guy.

Yeah, good guy, good guy. So he was always taking care of her. And so then she got pregnant with me, I think, maybe like in the first year that they were dating. No judgment. I didn't mean that with judgment.

So you were born in Mexico?

No, I was born in Cuba. Sorry.

Yeah, you were born in Cuba. Okay, great.

I skipped some chapters. But yeah, they would go from Cuba to Mexico. I went to school in Mexico too.

And then mom takes you, when you're six, to Miami, Florida, under the false pretense that you're going to Disney World.

Exactly. What?

More lies. How long did it take before you actually went to Disney World? A year. A year? That's not terrible.

Yeah, I'm like, when is it?

Wait, so she takes you there.

Because the mom's a hustler, so the mom's in Cuba. She's like, fuck this, let's go check out Mexico City. Still not good enough for me. Let's go to Miami.

She was just like, this, ain't it. But yeah, I think she was just like, I want to go to the fucking United States. Yes, of course.

The land of hustlers. The land of hustlers. Let's get it done.

Exactly.

And you go and you end up staying with grandfather's colleague, friend. And you live with her, who becomes godmother.

Yes, wow, my goodness.

My lord.

My lord. He done, did a deep dive on the fam. So we stayed there for a month in a room in her house. And my dad had not yet.

18 months. for him. He's got to wait a year and a half.

Oh, because of a visa situation?

Bitch, I don't know. I really, there's. so much I know for him.

It's his business.

You'll find out in 15 years. Exactly, yeah. She'll tell me at some point. Not even. It'll just come out through somebody else asking her a question.

Because you're right.

At that age, one year is one-seventh of your life.

Yeah, and it was a year and a half, if my facts are right. So we're talking like a fifth of your life. Right. I wonder if something more happened. Did you happen to listen to the Gabor Mate episode?

Yes, I probably did, and I fucking love Gabor Mate. See, like, if I hadn't started in this industry at 15, would not know Gabor Mate. No way. Exactly.

There's no way. I was 48 when I learned of Gabor.

I needed him.

I needed him. But he tells the story of having been separated to evade Nazi capture, then reunited with his mom. And then, even as like a one-and-a-half-year-old child, was icing out mom as this protective thing of, I'm not going to trust you again because you're going to go. I'm not going to go through that again. Right.

Exactly. Yeah.

Or is he going to bounce?

And I feel like there's probably so many ways in which immigrant kids carry that stuff in our bodies when we're older. That instability.

It gets passed down. I just had therapy about this because I was home. I mean, home. I was with my parents recently. And the last day of the trip, I was so anxious.

I was like, what's going on?

Why am I so anxious? And I get anxious around them a lot. But I was talking to my therapist, and I was like, I guess I feel like how are they surviving? Like, are they OK? They're in this world of white people.

It's just a feeling. It's just a feeling.

And my dad was like, well, what do we do about the ballet? Where do we park? And I was like, what?

It's like, it's fine.

It's like overly triggered. Yes.

I was like, what do you mean? It's fine. Why is this so stressful? And then I was realizing, well, I need to say that to myself. Why is this so stressful for me?

Like they're exposing themselves as being other when they don't understand these. Yeah.

And it has nothing to do with that. But I take everything like that. And I bet that you carry so much of that as well, I assume.

Yeah.

Now, and I'm not trying to make you cry. But I think when you're 27,, I'm assuming you don't have a terribly clear memory of being separated for that year and a half. But it's part of your story. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's just a piece of your story. But I can tell you, as someone who is an 8-year-old and an 11-year-old, if they hadn't seen me at 6 for a year and a half, it would have a big effect on them.

I'm such a daddy's girl.

Then, yeah, it had to be a very disruptive bit of time.

It's crazy, because I think my brain is like anything that feels emotionally traumatic, I just black it out. I don't remember some chunks of my life. Yeah. To be honest.

We just had a memory person on and he was talking about that. Does that happen?

Yeah.

And there's some conscious choosing of what you keep at the forefront.

My brain is so excellent at that.

Similarly, we learned, which is so fascinating, is your memories are altered by what perspective you're currently in when you look back on the memories. So if you're sad, you're going to kind of more dial into those. If you're happy, you'll remember more happy. It's as subjective as the conscious experiences, of course. So, yeah, it's hard to really know what the actual truth is.

Which is so relieving, actually. I definitely had the habit of going back and trying to just figure out, not from childhood, but adolescence, what was right and what was wrong. And there's something so freeing about being like, I don't fucking know. I'm never going to be able to objectively assess it all. It always brings you back to, there's no choice but to just fucking be present.

When do your memories start? Mine start in second grade, if I'm being honest. I have little glimpses, but from probably second grade on, I have a pretty good picture.

I have some sensory little sparks of things. Once our house in Cuba, or certain smells, we'll be like, whoa, I really remember this. But I feel like the first visual memory is first grade, when it was like the first time I liked a boy. And I remember seeing him. And I remember exactly what this little boy's face looks like.

But again, look at, I mean, it's so fucking basic, too. It's like, you miss dad. You miss the male attention or the maleness. And then in first grade already, you're like, ah, boy energy.

Yes. I always, in any guy that I am pursuing, if they have any dad-like qualities, somebody like my dad, I'm in love with them. I'm always looking for somebody like my dad. But I also think he's the best person. I remember, I think you had Gwyneth on, and she always talks about how she was in love with her dad.

Yeah.

Maybe not exactly, but.

Sure, the 2.

Yeah.

You know, it's funny. I know exactly what you're talking about, and I know the exact sentence, because I happened to be behind her on an airplane, randomly coming home from Nashville on Easter. And she was directly in front of me, and I leaned over and I was chatting with her. And I said, when you said everyone has a father, but if you're lucky, you get a daddy.

I remember that.

But it wasn't here. she said that. I have to be, it wasn't here. Right.

She said it on Stern, and then we talked about it on here.

But I remember you talked about it on here.

And as I'm saying, daddy, I'm fucking crying. And I'm sitting next to my nine-year-old while I'm saying it. But yes, I couldn't agree more. Same. Love, everyone that was like my mom.

Yeah, I've definitely dated guys like that, for sure.

Okay, so you're a boy crazy from first grade. Yeah. And then when do you start singing? When do you know that you have a good voice? What pocket of Miami are you in?

We moved around, but we moved into this apartment complex. And the first friend that I ever made in the United States was because we had this boom box. And I would bring CDs and we would just listen to music. And then we pretended we were in a girl group. Like my, first friends that I made were always because of singing and music.

When is the moment that either your parent or someone you admire says, oh, you're actually good. When you go from, I sing because I like it and I'm happy to, wait, I actually have this skill.

I think my friends, when I was in elementary school, I remember High School Musical had come out. And I would bring my High School Musical CD and I would play the CD and I would try to hit the high notes. And my friends would be like, wow, that was really good. Yeah. And I don't know if you had this experience, but singing was its own form of power currency.

You guys are also kind of close to the source of the fire. They're doing a lot of that shit in Orlando.

Holy fuck, this is delicious. I'm sorry.

That is so good.

I know. We always feel perverted telling you the name of it, but that is a cream top. Wow.

Yeah, this is a cream fucking top.

They need to change it. I don't know if it's working. They cancel them fast enough. Wow. How do we get from elementary, wow, I can hit the high notes.

Even when I was in ninth grade and when I was in middle school, I just wasn't going out and hanging out with people and partying. My summers were going on YouTube, looking up the instrumentals of songs and singing. I got more and more obsessed. This is what I like to do more than anything. And I was a really big pop culture fan.

I was going to say earmark Taylor Swift, because it's crazy to have a phase and then open for her. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God. I know. Yeah, that was fucking crazy. There have been so many moments that have been like that for me, where I'm just like, I just can't.

Do you have a hard time internalizing them when they're happening?

Yeah. And sometimes I feel like I can't. I bet you guys feel like this. If your favorite person in the world is sitting right in front of you on this couch.

Camila for me. Sure.

Yeah, whatever. Matt Damon. I can be honest.

What'd you say?

I said, Matt Damon. I can be honest. Right.

If Matt Damon is here, you're not going to watch like five Matt Damon movies the night before, because you can't.

You'd explode.

I just did Coachella with Lana. Yes. I've been telling people. Oh, I haven't been telling people. I told one person.

Being a fan is tricky.

Problematic for performance. It is. Yeah, I had to do that with Letterman. I had to do 10 days with my therapist of going like-.

I love the 10 days with your therapist. That is so real.

Yeah, like I got to walk in there. as for this, 90 minutes as a peer.

But sometimes I try to, and this is the Buddhism thing is right now. I just had a moment where I was like, wow, really fucking, take this in. You've been listening to this podcast and now you know what the inside of this room looks like. Nobody really, like you guys. don't take pictures in this room.

Well, we do for the social, but you obviously-.

I'm still the biggest fan.

You obviously don't follow us on Instagram.

I actually do.

I've never seen this room in here, though. It's really such a nice vibe. I love it. here. I like, don't want to leave.

You chose to not wear headphones. You don't have to. Explain that to me.

I feel like I'm a little bit of a sensory overload person.

Yeah, I could see that.

You can see that, right? I have not let go of this chapstick.

I know. I kind of want you to vape. I mean, I don't want to free your health. No, my dad vapes. My dad vapes.

Of course, because she's 70.

It's fun.

I know. Like if I started hearing my-.

I love it. Monica is so embarrassed for her dad right now. I love it. My dad.

Wait, wait, what? I missed this thing.

I was like, oh, yeah, because that's fun. And she looked at me like, dad, stop trying to act young. Then I recognized, oh, I'm embarrassing, Monica, which can be a very fun thing. And I started leaning into it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you vape. I did. I had a phase. I smoked forever. I was a smoker.

Aaron Weakley. Shout out, Aaron Weakley.

Boom. He was smoking darts, blowing camels up on a vacation. And I was like, well, I can't smoke. And then our friend Matt had vape. Well, I'll do that for a week.

You're still vaping.

Well, I haven't for a while, though.

My dad does it because it just really calms him down. Does it really calm you down? Yeah. I can't tell if I have an addictive personality or not.

Well, I want to get into that.

I think I do have an addictive personality, but I think, because I started so young and X Factor and whatever, I think I have a very like military discipline. I'm very disciplined. So I smoked a cigarette in Paris and I fucking loved it.

Sure. It's the perfect place to smoke.

It tasted so good with the espresso. And like, because of that, I was like, I can't do this every now and then.

I keep interrupting you. I really want to apologize. Oh my God, no, please interrupt me. I'm very excited.

First of all, I'm Cuban. Okay. It's all interrupting. I'm going to spit it. Yeah.

So my daughters were making fun of me yesterday because I told them I was interviewing you because I knew they would be excited and I was trying to steal your cultural capital to make them like me. As you should. Yes. I want this for you. And I was pronouncing Camila a little off.

Yes.

Sabrina Carpenter.

Sabrina Carpenter. Yes. Yes.

Thinking about me.

And then my daughter said, pronounce that word. And I said, Espresso. And she said, but do people say Espresso? And I said, yeah, people say Espresso. People like me say Espresso.

Sam, that's a coinkydink.

That was a zap to my brain. Whoa. Okay. Now, so you smoked that one cigarette and then were you inclined to do it again when you got home? I always do.

I miss cigarettes.

You do.

Like I'm a smoker and I never, never have.

But here's what I would say that's kind of parallel with the addiction and the OCD, is you're spending your summer as a kid in your room listening to YouTube.

You fucking busted me. Right.

Also, I think where it parallels addiction is like you did that once, it gave you a feeling.

Yeah. No, you're right. My therapist would say we actually don't even call it OCD. We call it obsessionality. Oh, okay.

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah. Because why?

I don't even know. I think something about OCD, just that- Oh, because it has disorder in it? Yeah. It's triggering for me for some reason.

Yeah. It's just you have an obsessive nature.

I have an obsessive nature.

Yeah. Which is a superpower. So do I.

It really is.

You got to learn to wield that sword.

100%.

100 P. Yeah, you're right. Part of me is like, stop trying to euphemize everything. But at the same time-.

What does euphemize mean again?

It means like, make it sound better than it is.

Yeah.

She had a strong smell. She smelled like shit. Yeah, but- That's a euphemism. Okay.

What? That, you should use a euphemism if someone smells like shit.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, if she's in the room. Yeah. If she's not in the room, you can say she smells like shit. For sure. I guess.

Yeah. We can be honest amongst ourselves.

Yeah, amongst ourselves, for sure.

But I don't know that we need to euphemize every single thing. And it is weird to call OCD a disorder because it's a personality type and it's super beneficial.

And I also think there are some things that don't fit into neatly labeled boxes. Like sometimes it is just, you're being obsessive. It's not necessarily obsessive, compulsive disorder. Or pathological. Yeah, because then it's placebo effect and you start giving yourself symptoms that you didn't even have.

Did you have tics? Yes.

Hug my parents for 11 seconds, or else they'll die.

Yeah.

Pray to God, then kiss your fingers three times, or else you'll have cancer. Like all of that just adorable stuff. Yeah, why do we do that? I had one time where I was in seventh grade, I got my period. Then I didn't have it for a year and I thought I was the Virgin Mary.

Oh, my God, wonderful.

No wonder you and Liz are friends. Yeah. That's so, Liz.

And then it was a whole neurosis. I would just like pray every night for God to take away the new Jesus Christ that was being born in me.

Ah, you didn't want to be the new Virgin Mary.

No, I was like, please. No, no one wants that. It's time to confess.

It's too much responsibility.

Too much for a seventh grader.

Are you going to guide this messiah?

No, totally. Not me, God, please.

Yeah, it's like I'm stressed out because I think my kids have the potential to be good singers. I hope we get them there. Or writers, but not the messiah. Oh, wait, wait.

I have a question for you. Yeah. So my mom is like, I really hope my sister isn't in the industry. Are you like, I hope they're not? Or are you like, no, I hope they are, because they'll have somebody great to guide them.

Well, what I think is I don't want them to do it as children.

It's really important.

Yeah. I just want them to do it as a family. I want them to have stuff to draw on. I want them to fuck around in New York for two years without thinking about people looking.

at them. Like if they're going to be filming them.

Fuck up pretty big time.

No, fuck up. I just started giving myself permission to fuck up literally a year and a half ago.

Right.

Before that, it was like every mistake I made, I would just punish myself. I was so hard on myself.

Well, the world was watching you. Oh, yeah. It wasn't even in your head. It was a reality. But so I would like them to have childhoods, but I do have a lot of friends that don't want their kids to go into it, even as adults.

You what? For 16 years?

I know your father and I have this in common. I washed cars. I detailed cars from 14.. I guess I just exaggerated 14 to 28.. So, 14 years.

Yeah.

And then had a family business construction company.

Oh, my God. So cool. That's incredible.

And I think this is also like an immigrant parent. Like even now, my mom cannot fucking sit still. Yes.

She just has to move. She's always like going.

But wait, talking about the industry, I agree with you.

Like go say words in front of a camera and hang with a bunch of creative people. How could that not be great?

I feel really lucky that I've held on to the sacredness of what made me get here. And I feel like I love music and art so much. If anything, I love it more and more the more I'm exposed to things. I watch an amazing movie, or I read an amazing book, or I listen to an amazing album. And sometimes it's frustrating, because I do feel like there's a big difference between like commerce and art.

Don't you think you're dancing with the devil, in that what you don't want to do is make your art service the commerce? Because you're afraid that it'll no longer be art.

That's what I'm trying to say. I'm not trying to sound like. I'm fucking like Michelangelo.

You should want the success that you're trying to prevent yourself from letting it guide your artistic output. Yes.

It's hard.

I've done that for 95 percent of my career, which is really good.

That's huge.

That's a really good batting average. And I feel like now, for example, in this last album, 100 percent. I never, ever did anything that I'm not obsessed with.

I love it. I love it. I love it. I love it. That's the song.

Take a hit of your vape after you say that.

I am really delighted to hear you say that, because I do think what could happen, starting at 15 and it being professional since 15 is. you could kind of be like an Olympian, where you fall in love with a sport and then the sport becomes everything. And then you don't enjoy doing the sport anymore.

No, there can be something fun to the competitive aspect of it, too. For sure. But sometimes I feel it in myself and I'm like, the competitive thing has to take a backseat and you have to get back to joy.

Again, that's another thing. I don't think it's black and white. I don't think it's like, don't be competitive or not. It's like, what's the ratio? that you don't feel sick about yourself or disappointed?

Exactly. And it's constant. I love this meditation that I did once, where it's like, life is like riding a bike and you're constantly micro balancing. You're constantly like, oh, a little more weight here. Just tiny adjustments.

Did you do the meditation after COVID, when you learned to ride a bike?

Because before that, that would have been very confusing. It would have been a bad metaphor. What are they talking about?

I thought it was all about pedaling. I think the zone is like, I want to win, but I'm not rooting for someone to fail. That's like the line. I'm not actually seeking someone to fail, but I am seeking to win.

And I think that's something we don't practice a lot in our culture. Like anytime I catch myself feeling jealous of someone. I did this last night. I practiced genuinely trying to find the space where I feel happy for them.

Who are you jealous of? Because that's really hard to believe. I'll list some people I'm jealous of. Okay, go. Vince Vaughn, still to this day.

I get jealous whenever I feel like they're having their moment and I want to fucking have my moment.