Play Stupid Financial Games, Win Stupid Prizes

I'll chime in with an opinion or two, if he allows. I will allow. Will you? All right. And I'm the work expert.

So, think income, all right? I'm the guy to help you make more income, and George is the guy to help you spend it and budget it properly. Oh, I like that. That's a good callback. You see that?

So, you're feeling stuck? You feel like you need the promotion, can't get the promotion, anything related to that? Should I take part of this job? Should I take the pay cut? Should I take the raise?

Is it worth it? Those are all conundrums that you can help with. That's right. So, happy to take any of those calls. Let's get to it.

Detroit, Michigan, the Motor City, George, is what it's famously known for. Makes sense. I'll explain that to you on the commercial break, but Colin is up. Colin, how can we help? Hey, man.

So, in a bit of a situation, I'm 21 years old, three kids, five, two, and 34 days. Woo! Started young, right? Yeah. I own a rental property, a duplex, here in town, and own the home that I'm living in.

So, two different mortgages, two different car payments. Trying to figure out what best suits me. Should I... I'm finding myself payment poor, which is probably 90% of the phone calls you guys receive, and I'm trying to see if it's smart for me to keep saving for one thing, but falling behind on the other. What are you saving for?

To get ahead, or should I.

. Well, I'm just... Like I said, I just went through a career switch, so I was in the car business for the past four years, making $130,000 a year. Now I am a nurse, making about $80,000 a year. Whoa!

And I.

. You know, it's what I went to school for, it's more consistent money, but definitely less now. There will be more in the future, but less now. And for these next couple years, it's gonna be the income that can't afford what I have. So I'm trying to figure out, does it make sense for me to give...

You know, does it make sense for me to take a minor hit on my credit and give car payments back to receive more money in my pocket so I can keep the lifestyle for me and my wife? Or does it make sense for me to sell everything so I can get more ahead of the game, or just... Okay, I'll tell you what, Colin. I just really need to know what I... We're gonna...

George is gonna tell you what to do, but can I guide you so we can get to it faster? Yeah. All right. Let's go through your debts, all right? So we've got two homes, right?

And so give us the.

. Not the primary home, not the mortgage, but just give us the rental property. What do you owe on that? About 96.8.. All right.

96.

8.

. And then now list the rest of your debts out for us.

You said, besides the home that I live in? That's right. You said you had two car loans. Okay. What are those?

So two car loans, that's about 45 and 48.

. Okay. And what are those cars worth? Are you upside down on those, or you got some equity? Upside down on them hard, upside down on them hard.

How much? On the 48?? Give me that one first.

Eight grand. Okay. So you have 90,000 plus worth of car loans, and you make 80,000?. Correct. How?

Because when I accumulated those car loans, I was making 130.

. That's right. Not that that's an income. That still hurts my brain. Correct.

It hurts my brain. How much are you upside down? That's okay. How much are you upside down on the $45,000 car?

Probably closer to 12.

. So it's only worth like 33?? Correct. And what about the 48 one? He's 8K upside down on that.

That one's worth about 40?

. Yeah. Okay. Give George the rest of your debts. We got to see your whole picture here, then he'll tell you what to do.

Yeah, for sure. So I know you guys said, besides the mortgage I live in, but that mortgage is about 250.. What's it worth?

It's a manufactured home, so probably- Less than that. Way less than that. Okay, what else? Let's keep moving. Let's keep moving on the other debts.

What's the rental worth, by the way? Student loan. Say that again? What's the rental worth? The rental is worth about 130..

Okay. We're definitely going to sell that one, aren't we, George? Yeah. You'd clear 30K worth of debt just by selling that. It is not a blessing in your life.

I'm in the process of selling it now. Okay. Or at least talking to an investment plan or property owners. Other debt is about $8,000 in student loans.

Okay. Is that it? And about $18,000 in credit card debt. Okay.

Here's the deal. I would sell this rental. You'll clear hopefully about 30K? Yep. That's the 20K you're upside down in on the cars, plus another 10 to get you a different vehicle.

Right. So that's going to clear the car debt. What are your total car payments?

Probably about $2,800 a month. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's going to free up $2,800 that you can now use to tackle the other debts.

So you'll tackle the smallest debt first. So if you have a bunch of credit cards, I'm guessing, those are split amongst a few? Yep. So whatever the smallest balance is, you're going to free up the $2,800, all the margin you can muster up from your normal income. Is your wife working outside the home?

No. Okay. I imagine she's got her hands full with a one-month-old, a two- and a five-year-old. Correct. When you go home, can she do something part-time and you take over?

No. I work nights. Or I work afternoons, so 3 to 11.. So when I'm home, I mean, I guess she could, but my problem is, this is another kind of nerve I find myself in. I mean, because my income is reported for the past two years in the sense of what daycares and all that stuff take, because I made so much then but make so little now or less.

now, I still don't qualify for any help. Can you pick up more hours doing nursing?

Yeah, I'm mandated three nights a week already. Okay. If you can do even more of that, we've got to get this income up, but if you at least do what we say, sell the rental, you'll clear the amount you're upside down on the cars, that will allow you to sell them, then you're going to take the $10K and get you a beater car to get around in for now. Now, with that free $2,800, you attack the rest of your $26,000 in debt, student loans and credit cards. And at that amount, what are we talking about, George?

How many months are we looking at there? He's got 26,, so we'll make an 80 and freeing up $2,800, that should help you get out of debt in a year. That's right. Do you see that path? Yeah.

In one year, if you take the money that you just freed up in those car payments, you can get out of this in a year.

Okay. Do you have any savings?

Yeah, but it's very little, probably about $4,800.

. That's something. So if you're following the baby steps, which we're going to send you with Financial Peace University to walk you through this, baby step, one is $1,000.. Anything beyond that needs to go toward your consumer debt.

So that's $3,800.

. You would attack, you would knock out a few credit cards, just like that, which frees up a payment. Do you see how the snowball starts rolling? I put him on hold because we're running into a break. Yeah.

We did what we could. So that's the plan. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. It'll walk you through this.

It'll make you never want to touch debt again at Financial Peace University. That's going to give you the proven plan to get out of debt, to build wealth. Man, you got three babies. You got a wife. You got to start taking life seriously, and that means getting out of debt as fast as possible.

Colin, I mean, George laid it out as plain as it could be. There is no margin for you to come up with your own version of that plan. That's the plan that will get you out of debt in a year and allow you to start to begin to build wealth, take care of all those kiddos, try to find some sleep somewhere in there. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me this hour, 888-825-5225 is the phone number. We'll get back to the phone shortly, but first, George, I'd like to... You and I were talking on Friday, we were on the show, and during the breaks we were talking about how we just peruse the old real estate listings.

It's just one of my only hobbies. Yeah. By the way, this is not an endorsement, it's just I like the usability of it. I use Realtor.com. I'm a fan as well.

Yeah, it's a nice interface. And again, this is no endorsement. Sure. But it is listings by Realtors. And so I find it to be fun.

But the app, it's kind of fun to see what's going on. And I'll be honest with you, I'm always going to look at my neighbor to go, okay, what's going on in the hood? I want to know what's happening. A lot of people do that, by the way. It's their hobby as well.

Well, sure, you want to see where you stand. How's the old equity situation? Some of it's doom scrolling. How's the market? Going?

what if, a little bit of dreaming. And some people are going, should I sell my house? All right, Mr. Money Guy, what's your take on the current real estate market? I think it's not going to change drastically anytime soon.

So what does that mean? I think rates will slowly come down. Oh, yeah. But as they come down, home values will pipe up. So you're telling me people ought to be in the game, not on the sideline.

Is that what you're telling me? If you're financially ready to buy, do it. Don't worry about the rates. And if you're thinking about selling, it's not going to be like, well, if I wait six months, what? Just go ahead and sell.

if you're ready to sell. All right, there, you go. From the expert himself, from the old horse's mouth, right there, folks. And so we've got a great program for you. Our Ramsey Trusted Program is the only way to find an agent that you can actually trust, keep you on track with your goals.

They understand the way we teach buying and selling real estate. And so we want to make sure that you know that there are top agents in your area that we trust. And you can find these Ramsey Trusted agents with years of experience by going to RamseySolutions.com slash agent. That's RamseySolutions.com slash agent. All right, to Atlanta, Georgia, we go next.

And C is on the line. C, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. How are y'all? We're having a blast.

What's going on? All right. I am in baby step number two. And, in an effort to increase my income and just do something that I see myself doing long term, I'm thinking about going to get a master's degree. But I don't know if I should do it now or later, after I pay off all my debt.

Okay, give me a quick snapshot of your debt. I have $22,000 in student loans. That's it? Yes. Okay.

What'd you get your undergrad in?

Sociology. Okay. And what are you, what master's are you looking at pursuing? It's something different. So it wouldn't take the standard two years.

It would be three years of speech language pathology. So a three-year program to have a master's in speech pathology. Yes. Okay. And what's the income range if you were to have that master's degree in speech pathology?

According to Google, about $81,000.

. Is that starting or is that kind of at the top range? Yes, this is less than a year of experience and that's like the 25%. And what's that look like as it goes up? What do you think the ceiling is on that income?

I did not research that, but that's like the low end and that's like very beginner. Okay. Good. All right. And do you see yourself potentially owning your own firm?

I'm not sure what you'd call it. Agency? Practice. Thank you. That's the word.

Maybe, but I haven't thought that far yet. All right. Good. Well, I guess that's why you called me. I'm going to walk you through all these things.

Okay. So how much is the master's program going to cost?

Hello, C. We stumped C on that question. Did we lose her? All right. We'll see.

Hello, C. Can you hear me? There we go. Now we can. You just went into- You just disappeared for a moment.

We're glad to get you back. All right. How much is the three-year program that you're looking into, or have you looked into multiple? and what is the range of cost? Well, it'll be about $25,000 at the school that I've looked at.

$25,000 total?

Yes. Okay. Well, not including books and things like that. Just tuition. Okay.

And do you have that set aside in cash? I don't have that in cash right now. That's right, because you're trying to pay off the $22,000 in student loans. How much do you have in savings right now?

Just my $1,000 for Baby Step 1.

. She's working the Baby Steps, George. Okay, good.

Are you single income, double income? Is it just you? And what are you making right now? Yes, I'm single, no children. I'm making $31,000 as a teacher.

Okay. I'm working part-time. Here's where we are. You're part-time, only making $31,000.. Regardless of my answer on the master's degree, can we agree that you need to be full-time doing something making more than $31,000??

I said that I'm working full-time and part-time, making $31,000.

. Oh, I misunderstood. Oh, my gosh. So you're making as a teacher? They're only paying like $20,000?.

No. I guess so. Are you a full-time sociologist? No, I'm a teacher. I work at a small Christian school, so yeah, my income is not like the average teacher.

Can you go work at a different school and make $35,000, $40,000, $45,000?

? Well, I did get a raise this upcoming year. I just gave you my numbers for what I'm making right now. Well, but this is all informing my decision. Here's the challenge.

There are times where I give people the advice of cash-flowing a master's degree while they're doing the baby steps, and in your situation, you've only got the student loans, $22,000, but you've got to get your income up before I would ever say, to try to do both.

The challenge is, you've got a three-year program, and that's a good chunk of time, and you're going to have to be working, I'm guessing, full-time during that process, correct? Right. So to me, there's no wrong answer, but I would be more comfortable saying, yes, cash-flow your way through this if you were making more money. If you're working two jobs, I'd like to see that number be around 60-65, not two jobs at 31.. And I understand you were giving us your current numbers, but going forward, you're going to have to play this out, and, George, I'm going to throw it to you because this is a budgeting issue.

If the income gets up higher to the tune of, see, listen to me, my qualifications on me saying, yes, you should go get this graduate degree, I like that. it's a path to a lot more money, and in this case, I want to be clear with the audience, and see, I'll let you answer the question. A master's degree is the only way to be a speech pathologist, true or false? True. Okay, so I want the audience to know that I've got a two-part framework that I always run by people, and then they ask about a furthering education degree.

Is it the only way, or is it the best way? And if the answer is yes, then I say pursue it, but we've still got to be smart with our money. In this case, I'm bringing you in here, George, she needs to have this, so there's no question that the master's degree is eventually required. I would be more comfortable if she doubled her salary, but I'm going to leave an asterisk there. If she could double her salary and get more, let's say she gets in the 60-65 range, from a budget standpoint, I want you to walk her through what she'd have to be able to figure out to pull the trigger on this.

Yeah, well, when you think about even paying off your 22 grand in student loans, let's say you could do $1,000 a month toward your loans, right? That's 22 months. That's almost two years. 32?. Yes, I'm sorry.

Okay, so at a grand a month, if you were able to throw that, it would take you almost three years to pay off the debt. Then you still need to get your emergency fund, save up in cash for the college, then do three years. So you're talking about like a seven-year plan. Do you agree that kind of sucks? Don't you want to get there faster?

I do. So. now the question is, what if we could do two grand a month? Well, that changes the equation. $2,500 a month.

When you create that kind of margin, it's going to get you out of debt faster, allow you to cash flow this faster, and get you through school. So that's the goal you need to be thinking through, is how can I create more margin? The only way to do that is by spending less and making more, and right now, I'm going to heavily index it toward the making more side. So, see, based on how George walked you through those numbers, I want you to press pause on the master's degree. Let's get the income up, get some more headway on that debt, and get to a point where you know you can budget, and you can live, and you can cash flow your way through, while continuing to pay off baby step two.

Other than that, I'd say you're going to have to press pause and get out of debt first before we even think about the master's degree. This is the Ramsey Show.

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The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me, and we are here for you this hour, taking your money, questions, your professional and work questions related to your income. How do you make more income? Is it a side hustle?

Is it a pivot? Why are you not getting promoted? I'll take any of those questions. We want to help you get some more money in. By the way, that helps us get through the baby steps faster.

George, here to be the primary here on your money questions. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.. Tallahassee, Florida, is where we go next. And Ryan is joining us there. Ryan, how can we help?

Sure. Ken, George, great to hear from you. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's happening today?

Yes, sir. My wife and I, we're in baby step two. We've been going at it, gazelle, intense, like you guys say, for about the last year and a half. And we're doing really good with it. My big question, and my main question, is how do you keep the intensity on your debt payoff?

As far as making sure that you keep going at it and you don't lose any steam on it and you don't get disgruntled. Because we have our two loans that we have left, the big ones, and that's all we have left. We've paid off all the small, fiddly-doink stuff like credit cards and a firm and stuff like that. So how much debt do you have? total?

Left. Left over, I have about $40,000.. And we started with about, I want to say it was $89,000..

My wife, before we started, we had bought her a brand new Honda Accord.

And then I found you guys on YouTube and I was like, we got to get rid of the car. So, Ryan, here's my question. You called us, and I love this question, how do we keep the intensity up or how do we stay the course? I'm just curious, where are the temptations or where are the frustrations? Give us what you guys are actually dealing with in this journey right now.

So we're just, you know, we're working so much. I work, I'm a commercial truck driver locally. I work anywhere between 65 to 75 hours a week. And my wife works about probably 55 to 60 hours a week. And that's just on our regular jobs.

And then I'll do like Uber, Eats and stuff on the side. So you're exhausted. You're just exhausted. Yeah. Okay.

So, George, this is an interesting question. This is kind of fun to tackle.

I may have a different position than George. But I think that this is a marathon, not a sprint. Would you agree with that, Ryan? Totally agree. And, like I said, that's why I was asking how do you just make sure that you keep that intensity and the fire does not die out in your...

Well, I'm going to tell you what you're doing. I'm going to tell you, because I think there's a difference between when Dave for decades has said, be gazelle, intense. There's a difference between that. I think, I could be wrong. I don't mind if George disagrees with me here.

And maybe some of our audience. I think there's a difference between that and literally the physical sprint the entire time. And I think there might be times, and I ran a half marathon. I only did it once. I'll never do it again.

By the way, I was one and done, George. You know this. Famously. First and last half marathon. But here's one thing I learned and I took away from my half marathon.

You have to pace yourself. And that means you can't always keep the same pace. As I mapped out the course with a good friend of mine. You share the friend. He's intense.

And we mapped out. All right, so this part of the course is a little bit more hilly. So you're not going to be able to naturally keep your pace up there. It's just physically harder. So let's drop our pace back here.

But then we pick up our pace coming down the hill. And so I think the journey at this moment is similar to that, George. And I don't mind if you disagree with me, but I'm going to lead off. This may be controversial, but I think I would back off. If you're working, did you say you were working about 75 hours a week right now, roughly?

Or is it 80?

No, like, well, on my full-time job. No, I mean everything. I took into account everything you're doing. Yeah, okay. Yeah, everything's probably about 80 to 85 hours a week.

Yeah, you've paid off so much money. You're on the downhill of this deal. You've paid off 80.. Less than half to go. I would pull back, and I'm just making this up.

But I would pull back to maybe 60 hours. See what 50 looks like for two weeks. That's obviously commensurate to. you're not bringing in as much money. But again, you guys have learned how to budget.

I'd like to see some gazelle intensity on keeping rice and beans and all that kind of stuff. But maybe give yourself a little bit of a physical break. Maybe budget in a steak dinner instead of rice and beans every night. I think you've got to pace yourself. George, do you disagree with that advice?

Not necessarily. I think the way I would pace it is just breaking it down into smaller goals. It's not necessarily we want to have less income. But I think there's ways to not make it a giant slog. Which, right now, you've got the big dogs.

So you've got the mountains staring at you. You've knocked out the little ones. You've got those wins. And now you're like, oh crap. You can't keep doing 80 hours a week.

It's going to take forever. 80 hours, that's a lot. With the Uber Eats, are you guys just not making enough with your full-time jobs? What's the current household income with the side jobs?

Current household income with the side jobs, the net is just shy of $11,000 a month. Amazing.

How much are you able to throw at the debt?

We throw about $2,757 at the debt every month. And that's, according to the budget. Going hard in the main. My question is, why do you guys have $8,000 in expenses?

Well, I have my truck loan. That's the biggest one we have left. I owe $26,000 on that. And then we have a $13,800 personal loan that we had took out after we sold the car to buy my wife her little hoopty truck that she has now.

Okay. It still seems like you have a lot of expenses. So if we can figure out a way to spend less, because what we're talking about is making more, the other option to get margin is to spend less. So I'm wondering if there's lifestyle choices we can make. We're shopping at a different grocery store, less stops at the, no pun intended, at the gas station.

Are there other things we can do on that arena to bring our expenses down to $6,000, so you're not having to work as much, but you also don't lose progress. That's where I'm trying to get to. Okay. I know my big thing is we own a home, and our mortgage is $3,564 a month. Goodness, gracious.

That's a lot of mortgage. Yes, sir. That explains why things are so tight.

How big is the house? How many square feet have you got on that? Just shy of 2,300 square feet. Man. And it's a four bedroom, three bath.

Okay. Well, I think this mortgage is, that's another thing to look at down the road, because that may not be a sustainable mortgage for you guys. It's a big mortgage on a house that small. Because once you go back to your normal full-time jobs, what's going to be your take-home pay?

It would be like $9,400 a month. Okay. So this mortgage is taking up a big old chunk of that. We're talking upwards of 40% of your take-home pay going toward the mortgage. Yeah.

You guys own the water?

No, we're not. We're just, I live in Florida. Yeah. And when we had originally bought the house, right before, ironically, we bought the house right before we discovered you guys. And I told my wife, I was like, if we had only found the Ramsey show, maybe like a couple of months before.

Well, usually you make a bad decision, then you find the show. So you guys did it in the right order. How much is the house worth? The house is worth $400,000.. What'd you pay for it?

$400,000.

. With very little down, I imagine?

Yeah, we actually, we had the down payment assistance plan when we bought the home. So they kind of, they put in like a, it's all included in the mortgage, I guess, but it's... What's the truck worth? My truck is worth $18,000.. Okay.

I'm just wondering, if push came to shove and you were just done going this hard, you could sell the truck. You need to cover the amount you're underwater on, plus enough to get you something different. That's his main income, the truck. Well, the truck is not the one you're driving for work, right? That's your personal vehicle?

No, it is.

I'd sell the house. I really would. I think it's time for them to get out of this deal and rent, George. That's a lot of house. I would consider that.

You probably can get out of debt first. It's gonna take you another year. I'd keep up the intensity and look at your lifestyle choices. But if you can't sustain it, you gotta slow down a little bit. Don't burn out.

But if you can't keep up those hours, at least take a week off and then get back at it. But my goodness, that's... I think there's other fixes. I think I'd try to get out of that house. I wouldn't normally say that, George, but I think that would be a big, big fix.

That's a lot of house. You gotta go from disgruntled to gruntled. That's what I've learned in life, Ken. Ooh, I like that. I'm gonna quote that.

George Campbell, folks. This is The Ramsey Show.

On deck, my family's schedule is already so packed. And we haven't even made room for things like exercise and date nights and counseling and all the other things that make our life even worth living. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to remember to put on my oxygen mask first, meaning I have to do the things that help me stay well and whole. And you have to do the same thing, too. Together, we can show up and be strong in all of this chaos.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. You got a question about your money?

Come on. You got a question about not making enough money? You want to make more? I'm here to help on that. George is going to coach you up on your budget, how to keep it.

So, let's get to it. Is it Joan? I think we're going to go with Joan or Joanne. What do you think? I'm going to go with Joanne.

You're going to go with Joanne? I'll go with Joanne. Let's see. Toronto, Ontario. Is it Joanne or Joanne?

It's Joanne. Joanne. All right. Way to go, George. Way to help me out.

I won a prize. Thank you. How can we help? Okay. So, we have a 15-year-old son who we have been big Ramsey followers for years.

So, he has done the 60-30-10 principle. Now, he is working 50-60 hours a week,

and we are starting to see an unhealthy money habit where everything is about money and savings.

Be more specific.

What's showing up in his actions, in his comments, that's got you concerned about a 15-year-old working 50-60 hours a week? I'm having a hard time being concerned yet, but I want to hear more. Okay. Well, maybe this is where we don't need to be concerned. But he is an avid soccer fan, and he would rather work than go to his soccer games.

You mean playing in his.

. Correct. Correct. And what's his job? What kind of work is he doing?

He's now into landscaping. And what's he making per hour?

$19 an hour. And what kind of goals does this kid have with this money? Have you heard him talk about some of his goals? Oh, yes. What's he got?

He wants to buy a house. And why does he want to buy a house? He wants to buy a house when he's 20, and yes, in Canada, in our area, you don't get much of a house for $400,000.. And what is he saying about his future? besides buying a house?

Is he saying anything about a professional future, things that he may want to do one day?

He's leaning towards running his own landscaping company. Okay, there's your answer. But when it comes to college, it is off the table. He doesn't even want to think about it because he can make money instead. Well, he's making $4,500 a month at 15 years old.

What does he need college for? I couldn't be happier, Joanne. You have nothing to be concerned about at all. You have a 15-year-old who has discovered the value of working his butt off and stacking cash. And he's thinking five years ahead on a house.

He's thinking probably seven to ten years ahead on owning his own landscaping company. And he's going, I'm never going to play in the MLS, and I'm probably not going to make the Canadian World Cup team. So maybe I'll just skip my soccer game and take care of my future. I wouldn't be concerned if I were you, Joanne. I'd be throwing a party.

Okay. That's good. George, am I wrong? Here's my take. Now, the only concern is that he has skipped childhood and went straight into adulthood.

We want him to grow into an adult who is excited about work. I like that. He hasn't skipped childhood. That's dramatic. Well, I just want him to look back one day and go, what did I do this for?

I just worked my whole life. My concern, Ken, and here's where I've seen this play out, there's not a why behind it. He's got a why. Well, he wants a house. No.

He wants to run his own landscaping company one day. Yes. He likes landscaping work. Why a house at 20?? Who cares about that?

That's just a 15-year-old. That'll work itself out. She's wondering, is he working too much? Is he too concerned about money? And I don't think he is.

Does he have to be in school?

We homeschool. Okay. And he's doing his homeschooling, and for the four years, he's doing it in three. And he's getting it all done. He's doing his work.

He's studying. Oh, absolutely. He can work and make money. He hates the homeschooling, but he's so bound and bent, he can make money. But he's very disciplined.

Instead of sitting behind a desk. Yes. But that's what schooling does to a lot of entrepreneurs. In fact, I could tell this story over and over, and over and over and over again about all the great entrepreneurs. They hate being behind a desk.

They hate the process. They're about doing. And my guess is he really enjoys the outdoors. Is this something he's always been? A bit of, an outdoorsy, handy kind of guy?

Oh, absolutely. 100%. Again, I wrote a book called Find the Work You're Wired to Do, George. This kid is wired. He figured it out very early.

Yes. I'm telling you, I'm so excited I can barely stand it. By the way, this is rare. Very. But to say this kid's not had any fun.

He's had a fun childhood, yes? Yes. And trauma. Lots of trauma. Okay.

Tell us about that. Whatever you're comfortable with. We don't need to know the details. But what kind of trauma? He lost his brother when he was seven.

So that's really tough on him. Well, that'll make you grow up quick. That's exactly what I was, so sorry. Yeah. And a year later, his dad and me split.

Okay. So would you say it's possible that this is a big distraction for him, and it also is a potential win for him? He sees a big life win. He sees something that he can control. He couldn't control losing his brother.

He couldn't control you all divorcing. But he can control how much money he makes.

I think so. And potentially it makes him focused on something other than his pain. That's exactly what I'm getting at. That's why I said it's a distraction and something that he can control. It can be both.

Listen, I think getting him therapy on a consistent basis and encouraging him to do that is okay. I understand your concern. I was having some fun. I am in no way minimizing the trauma that he's had. But this is actually, he's not some weird situation.

He's rare, but he's not weird. Okay.

George, I keep thinking about my friend Graham Stephan, who's a big financial YouTuber. He had a very similar experience to your son, Joanne, where he was in school going, Wait, I can go make money doing this aquarium photography stuff. Why am I sitting here in school making zero dollars? There's a bent to him that he's going to be very wealth-minded, and that's okay. I'm just in the boat of, I think a little bit of balance is good.

As long as he has some hobbies. I don't want to be working 60 hours a week, let alone a 15-year-old. So that was my only thing, was? I love where he's headed. His mindset's right.

His discipline is there. I just want him doing it for the right reasons and have some real depth to it. Instead of just going, I gotta build wealth. I gotta have a million by 21, or else, or else, or else. And as I dig into it, people, there's no why behind it.

I just want him to have that deeper. why. And I appreciate that, but, Joanne, I would just be aware. I think George makes a very good point there. Just keep your eye on it, but really encourage him, and really just speak positive.

life over him that he's working so hard, that he's putting money away, and just remind him, Hey, have a little bit of fun with some of that money. And force him to give some too. You said you're doing the 60-30-10, I assume that's saving, spending, giving? Yeah, but he, as long as we've done that, which is all he ever actually remembers, he's never spent 30%. I think we get him to enjoy some of it more, because the only concern is that he has a flat tire, where he goes, I'm great at saving and investing, I have a harder time giving and having that open hand.

I have a harder time enjoying the fruits of my labor. So I think we can work on those things with him, but I don't think this is a crisis. No, not at all. Just make sure he doesn't get too unhealthy,

and that's the only issue. And the unhealthy would be that he's just working, working, working, not enjoying, not giving. So be that positive focus. Hey, I think you should go do this, or I think you should have some friends over. Community, I think, is huge at 15..

Here's the interesting thing. It may be very hard to find other 15-year-olds who get him. He'll be hiring his buddies to work for his business at this point. Right. So they come over to play poker or something, and he goes, hey, let's get outside and knock some boxwoods out here.

Let's play at these suckers.

But I think you've got a great young man who's been through a lot, and I think he's been forced to probably mature a little bit too early on certain things. So lean in, Mom, and love him. Don't be concerned, because he'll pick up on that. And I just don't think you need to be concerned right now. On the spectrum of 60 hours a week doing video games or working, I'd rather him be toward the work side.

That's better. I love that. Good stuff. All right. Good hour, George Camel.

Good stuff. Praying for your voice. We'll get you medicated. More honey during the break. Thanks to Kelly Daniel keeping us on the air and the fearless crew.

This is the Ramsey Show.

This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. We're here to help you win in your life. Winning with your money. Winning in your work and winning in your relationships.

That's the goal. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. And we're here together for you this hour.

taking your money calls. George will take lead on those. And then, how about your income situation? Your professional path? Are you making enough money?

You want to make more? I'm here to help with that. So we'll combine together to help you out. Let's get started this hour with Emma, who joins us in Provo, Utah. Emma, how can we help today?

Hi. Thanks for having me. You bet. What's up? I've been married two and a half years.

And my husband and I have two homes between us. And up until last month, we've done our finances about 90% separate.

And I'm just not sure where to go from here. I've accumulated $20,000 in debt. And I'm really struggling to pay it off. I make $31,000 a year. Okay.

Let's go back a second.

I want to go back here and get some details on this. You guys have two homes. And you said, up until, I thought you said two months ago, 90% of your income, I mean 90% of your finances, were separate. I don't quite understand that. Are you guys living in different houses?

Yes. For how long have you been doing this? The entirety of your marriage? Or is this a new development? The entirety of our marriage.

So are you married?

Yeah. That's how it, yeah. Can I ask a weird question? Why did you get married?

Well, a couple weeks ago, my husband shared with me that he actually didn't want to get married. That he was too afraid to tell me. Because he would hurt my feelings. And so I've wondered that. We did have a plan to find a home together.

that kind of met halfway. And we'd both compromised. And that has since been blown out the window since we've been married. So we've both been just trying to make it work. So this whole thing was built on a lie.

to avoid hurting your feelings?

That's how it feels, yeah. So you guys get married. Do you go on a honeymoon? No. So, no honeymoon.

And from day one, he had his house and you had your house. I'm actually in a rental. Oh, so you're renting? Yeah, we're 30 minutes apart. I'm so confused.

Yeah, I am too. I'm going to keep digging, George. So the house that he lives in. Are you on the deed for that? The title?

Did you own that together? Or is it his house? No, it's his house. And this is what I've struggled with and why I wanted to call.

I've really struggled financially since we've become married. I've changed my jobs, trying to contribute the best that I can. And he does help me now. But I've had to, you know, ask for help. And I don't want to put him down.

I don't want to ask for it. Does he know that you make $30,000.. You've been going $20,000 to debt. You can't afford your life. You're continually unable to make ends meet.

And what does he say?

He just thinks to be you? Well, he doesn't want to be married. Let's be honest. He told you, how long ago was this? And he said, hey, I never wanted to be married.

This was just, I just said yes. I didn't want to upset you. Like, how long ago did that conversation happen?

Yeah, I mean, I think from there, we're operating from. that statement. There's, this is not even a situation where I would say there's counseling. This has never been a marriage. Yeah, I've actually, I've been in counseling the last two and a half years.

What is your therapist telling you? Kind of what you're telling me. But my husband assures me this is where he wants to be. He just has a slow time moving forward. Assures you.

this is where he wants to be? Like, this is what he wants his life to look like?

No, I don't think it does. But he continues to want to keep trying. I'm not sure we trust the things he says anymore. There is no trying. Do you guys even have, oh boy, I can't believe I'm going to say this.

He doesn't want to make this work. Is there, no, I need to know. Is there any, like, marital intimacy at all? Or do we have a conjugal visit? You guys live in separate houses.

Yeah, we go back and forth. And I have thought with him to have a good financial conversation. So wait, a second, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. So that is happening? Yes, that is happening.

Well, this is even more bizarre. It's just like a friends with benefits with a legal arrangement. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Is that fair? And your therapist is telling you that you need to get out?

He hasn't said that specifically, but he's just, he has acknowledged that, my husband.

. It's been two and a half years of counseling. How have we not come to a decision? Listen, I'm not upset at you, Emma. I'm upset at this guy.

I think this is manipulation. This is so wacky. This is not a marriage. George nailed it. It's friends with benefits in a legal arrangement.

I would have to assume there's other women in his life at this point.

He's not getting what he needs, even emotionally, from you. I don't think he wants emotion from her. This is a dude who told you two weeks ago he never wanted to be married, and now he's doing the conjugal thing. This is wacky.

Emma, if I.

. Listen, I'm trying to act like your older brother right now. I would be like, no. This doesn't make any sense. This is not a marriage.

You're not happy, are you?

No, I've struggled. This has been a hard couple years for me. I think there may be some sunk cost fallacy here. There might be some shame spiraling. I've spent all this time trying to make this work, but it's not working.

It's been two and a half years. Here. you are, struggling with debt, not making a lot of money. I think we need to... I'm not going to tell you on air to cut ties with him.

You need to make that decision for yourself. I would strongly figure out what life looks like for Emma on her own as she starts a new chapter. Which means he has to decide to actually be married. Why in the world are you renting a place when he has a house and you're his wife? Does he not want you living there?

Well, that's partly my fault. In my divorce, my kids have to go to school at the school district where I'm at.

I have four kids at home. He doesn't have any. And my kids did not... I know it's not all about my children, but I felt like it would hurt our relationship to move them over there into a new school district, everything, which I couldn't do anyway. So I do my best to just meet his needs and go back and forth.

It sounds like he's getting any benefit, as literal as there is, and you're getting zero.

And he sounds controlling and manipulative, and as soon as you bring up this conversation again, he's going, well, you know, we can make it work. What do you need? Okay, we'll figure this out. Even though he's already told you he doesn't want any part in this. Yeah, we can't keep skipping over what he said to you two weeks ago.

Well, he said that, but then he says now that he wants to be here and he wants to work it out. I don't care what he says. What is he doing? Then? he needs to sell his house and move in with you.

Unless his actions reflect all of this, in the next week, this is not going to go anywhere. He's going to say whatever he needs to say to get out of the conversation.

Okay, that's what I was afraid of. I'm going to give you the real, real. He's saying whatever he needs to say, so he can keep up this crazy arrangement. Bachelor, all week, and then I get to play husband when it suits me, if you know what I'm saying. I mean, let's be honest.

So he needs to, if you can't legally get the kids out of the school district, and they've got to go to school where they are, then he, as your husband, needs to go, I'm coming to you, and I'm going to be married to you. That would require being a man, and currently he is a child. Yikes. So I don't know that we can get that to happen, but you've got to create your own life. You're going to have to get the income up, get out of the debt, and plan to do this all yourself.

Can we get her a session with a financial coach? Yes, please. Hang on the line, Christian. We're going to get you, Emma, with one of our financial coaches, because in the midst of all of this, you have to get your finances in shape to take care of you and those kiddos. So we're going to walk you through that.

We're going to be with you the whole way.

calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like. oh, it's terrible air people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I gonna pay my bills? How am I gonna eat next week?

Yeah, in the middle of all that grief like it's just it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids, that I'm like so big on for people to get, because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much, because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not gonna be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm gonna say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote call 800-356-4282.. That's 800-356-4282 or go to Zander.com.

The Ramsey show continues. Thrilled to have you with us, 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. We're here for you taking your questions this hour.

Let's go to Toronto, where Benjamin awaits. Benjamin, how can we help?

Hi, George and Ken. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's up? I have been listening to the show for a few months now and I know the attitude there towards whole life insurance policies.

I have one that's fully paid up, that my parents purchased for me when I was young. It's fully paid up now and I'm just trying to decide whether I should surrender it and invest the cash surrender value or, at this point, should I just keep it going. given my age? What is your age? I'm in my early 40s now.

Okay, and what is the policy worth? What's the death benefit? At the time it was for $100,000, but now, because it's self-sufficient, it keeps, you know, adding on to the value for it, and I believe it's close to about $120,000 now. So $120,000 is the cash value?

No, it's the debt benefit on it. So the debt benefit is $120,000.. What is the cash value? The cash value is, I believe, just over $15,000.. Okay, and have you paid money into this?

Who's been continually paying? I paid it for the last year that it was active and then, ever since then, it's just being covered by the dividends. Okay, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to surrender this policy, I'll take the cash value, but before you do that, you need to get term life insurance in place, and even in your 40s... I do have that in place already. Oh great, what's the policy?

It's for $650,000 for myself and $500,000 for my wife. Perfect. Okay, and what's your incomes?

Right now, I'm at about $90,000 a year and she's at about $40,000.

. Okay, and where are you guys at financially in the baby steps? Are you debt-free?

Yeah, actually, that's probably the best part. Fortunately, we are safe for a car note, but we are mortgage-free and we have no other expenses other than our month-to-month. That's amazing. Yeah, if you don't need that $15,000, just cash it out and you can invest that and it'll turn into six figures later for you in retirement.

I mean I wasn't sure, like at this point, if it's not that I don't need the money. I could certainly use it in other areas of my life, and you know if money approximately doubles, like every seven years or so, given sort of basic formulas, I wasn't sure whether to take it out now and maybe have a shot at enjoying it in this life or using it. Exactly. You know, at this point I just leave it. You don't need the extra death benefit of the 120 on that whole life policy.

It's not going to do much for you anyways, and I imagine the fees will continue to eat away. at that versus watching it grow. You can, you can do better investing it on your own than what the life insurance company is doing.

Yeah, that's what I would think. So it's really like. I think it's just over two percent with what they're doing with it right now. I could even put that in high yield. Yeah, you'll get five percent with a high yield savings account.

I would absolutely cash this out. Your parents were doing a sweet kind thing. It was a very expensive way to get pretty terrible coverage and ROI, but it's okay. Avoid the sunk cost fallacy. Just cash it out.

Live your life. You're doing great. All right, good stuff there. All right, let's go next to New York City. Joe is there.

Joe, how can we help?

My question is around.

. I moved from Florida to New York because I have a special needs fund and with more services in New York and I couldn't make more money. I've been saving for emergencies into a high yield savings account, but it's starting to cause a bit of a tax liability in terms of that extra income in interest. I was wondering, should I opt more for a brokerage account for my emergency fund? What's your game plan with this money that you've been saving?

It's sort of like my emergency fund for any issues. Like I said, I have a special needs fund, so I'll have some debt around medical costs and things like that. I do have debt that I have to take care of, but I just wanted to make sure, just in case of an emergency something happened, that I have access to money. How much debt do you have?

Between my student loans and some medical bills and some personal loans, about $100,000.

. Okay, and how much is in the savings account? I have about $25,000.. Okay, so, when you're talking about a tax liability, you're not going to pay much on this. The $25,000 is growing at what interest rate right now?

Well, you know, the growing rate right now is about 4.

98.

. 4.3 is what you said. it is on yours? No, 4.98.. Oh, 4.98..

Okay, so we'll call it 5%, right? So let's actually crunch the numbers to show you. That's $1,250 a year and divided by, you know, monthly, it's about $104 a month. Now, you're not going to pay taxes. You're going to pay, you know, your tax rate on that extra $1,250 for the year, $1,250, which is going to be $200..

Okay, so I don't think this is worth worrying about, over a $200, you know, extra that you would pay in taxes for that income. Just like if you got a raise, we're not going to tell you, well, don't take the raise because you're going to have to pay more in taxes. It's the same idea.

Okay. I wouldn't worry about that. I would focus on paying off your debt, because that's going to put you in a better financial position for the future, to take care of your son, to have no payments, so I would be aggressively trying to tackle that. What's your income?

I'm at about $80,000 a year. Great. So what is your payoff plan to get rid of the $100,000 in debt?

Well, considering the snowball method, then I would highly suggest that one. So let's say you make $80,000 net, you got $100,000 in debt. Can we clean this debt up in two and a half years?

What are?

Agreed. And so I would be less concerned about the savings account. You know, if you follow the baby steps, baby step one is $1,000, then baby step two is debt snowball. Obviously, you have a special needs child. I would try to forecast what kind of, you know, medical bills we might have, what are the actual costs associated with taking care of this child that we actually need in the bank?

And you might realize it's less than you think.

I guess over the years, you just kind of get a little bit worried, so you want to have a nest egg, just in case. I agree, but I think the worry should be more focused on that $100,000 in debt versus the future costs, because that's going to free up a lot of payments. when you look at it. What are all those payments add up to on the $100,000 right now? Just the minimums?

Between loans, you can give or take like $1,000 a month. So you would give yourself a $1,000 raise just by getting rid of this debt? Yeah. And think of that as a $1,000 margin. And peace.

Flexibility.

So I would consider taking a chunk of that savings account and trying to chip away at some of this debt, especially those smallest balances, and then just keep what you need. Maybe that's the max out-of-pocket for the deductible on the health care plan, what have you. But I think we're doing a lot at once right now, and I want you to make progress instead. Absolutely. Thank you for the call, Joe.

All right, George, here's a fun question of the day for you from Caitlin in Florida. Boy, oh boy, I may need to give you a Tums right before this. All right. I co-signed on two vehicles with my now ex-boyfriend. Our relationship ended two and a half years ago in a domestic violence situation.

He kept possession of the vehicles, but has stopped making payments on them. The loan companies have been trying to repossess the vehicles, but have not been able to locate him to do so. And now I've been sent a letter saying that if I don't pay the loans or hand over the vehicles, they will be pursuing legal action against me. I don't know what to do. George, what would you say to Caitlin?

I would be tracking this guy. I hope you find my iPhone on him, and I would get those cars back to those people, so they don't come after you. But at the end of the day, here's the TLDR, the too-long-didn't-read. Here it is. Sparknotes.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. And this guy's a deadbeat. He owes money on the cars. You owe money on the cars because you co-signed, which is the reason we say never co-sign anything, especially with someone you're not married to. And so the only way against this is getting those cars back to the loan company.

You know what I think? It feels like a bad day or something. Like a bounty hunter type show. That's what I think. I think you've got to go.

find some seedy, redneck bounty hunter who'll find this guy. You owe the money. And until you get the collateral back to them, because you stopped paying, it's not gonna solve this. Find him. Find him now, Caitlin.

This is gonna be like, taken. Yeah. I have a special set of skills. Yeah, it's got to be somebody in the Everglades down there in Florida. That's what they do for a living.

They just find people. Don't you think?

This is the Ramsey Show.

Helping you win with your money. Win with your salary. Win with your relationships. This is the Ramsey Show. Thrilled that you are with us.

My name is Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me this hour. Phone number is 888-825-5225.. George, what's the best way to make the most of your money? Is this a trick?

question? Could be, if you don't answer properly. Budget. Final answer. Budgeting.

That is correct, sir. And I used to think, Ken, that budgets were like for broke people and Excel-loving accountants. And it turns out I was broke until I started doing a budget. And it was actually a major key that helped me go from negative net worth, broke, stressed, frustrated, to net worth millionaire. And it's not because a budget's magic.

It's because it gives you a plan on paper for where your money's gonna go. And that's why we created EveryDollar. It's a budgeting app that you can get in the App Store. Makes it super simple to plan your spending. You get your income, your expenses.

You can even drag transactions in, connect it to your bank. There's all kinds of cool features. Super easy to use. If you got a spouse, they can log in and have that transparency and accountability. And it really becomes freedom to spend.

And you just actually made a plan for it. Instead of going, well, we make good money, and I don't know where any of it's going. It's because you're not paying attention. And that's what a budget does. It helps you keep a pulse on spending.

Helps you make progress on your goals. So go check it out. EveryDollar.com slash, George. You can get started for free. And thank me later, when you're a millionaire.

Making progress. Wow. Look at you. Very bold. Bold prediction there.

That's a bold prediction. I like it. I like it a lot. How about Andrew? Andrew's joining us now.

How about a Baltimore Maryland? rather. Andrew, how can we help?

Hey, yeah. So I'm thinking about buying a house, but also, at the same time, looking for a career change. I already know what that career change should be, but it's going to be a lot more variable pay. Less pay, but it's like a chasing your dream job. So I'm curious, you know, if buying a house, even though I can afford it now, it's still, you know, a wise investment.

Now, what does that mean, I can afford it now, in light of the variable income of this new play? Can you give us a little more detail? Right. Yeah, yeah. So I'm like 25..

I have like $200K saved up, and that's across different types of investments and savings, accounts and whatever. So, you know, I can afford the down payment with, you know, room to spare. You know, my goal is to get, you know, like a three-bedroom house and rent out two rooms. How much is the house going to cost?

Ideally, like $300K. Okay, so 20%. So you got the 60, the 20%, easy, and then you said we. Is that you and your wife renting this thing out?

Oh. Is it just you? Are you single? Just me. Yeah, yeah.

I don't even know why. I said we then. And I may not have heard you before. You're reminding me. Yeah, right.

Oh, I apologize. Yeah. Salt in the wound. Too soon. Too soon.

No, shame in your game, man. I'm sure there's plenty of lovely ladies that would love to meet you. My question is, what is the variable in this new industry? What is this industry? What's the variable look like?

Yeah, so, basically, currently I'm a comedian on the side, and that's paying decently, but I'm not actually live off of quite yet. So variable in that sense is, it changes month to month. Did you go all in on this? Did I go? Not yet.

Okay, but that's what, so the way you presented this is, I'm getting ready to go into this new thing, and it's gonna be variable. My question is, why? Mentally, I'm fully committed to it. I can't necessarily quit a job until I have more ways to make money yet. Perfect.

That's gonna be my response. Yeah. I wouldn't actually fully go into being full-time comedian until the opportunity is there. Right, right, right. And it'll be obvious.

What are you making right now per month? What do you take home?

My normal job, whatever that comes out to be, about like 10k per month on my standard job, and about 2k per month in stand-up. Okay, great. Is that all local gigs, or are you doing them regionally now?

Both. Good. What do you anticipate? I know this is an impossible question, but just for fun, what do you think? Knowing what you know now, if you've dabbled in it, you're obviously good enough to where you're getting some regional gigs.

What do you think it's gonna look like? How long to get the amount of gigs you would need to get to make the money you're making in your day job?

Probably, I mean, that could change overnight, but if I'm being hyper-realistic, yes, you should be. Another four to five years. Yeah, George, for that reason, and by the way, I think that's very realistic. Andrew, I really like that answer.

George, here's the variable. I don't think I'd buy the house right now. If you really want to do comedy, now is probably not the time to set up and get a house, because you're gonna be on the road for most of the year anyways, right? And so that's the question. What's the urgency to buy the house versus pursue comedy?

It sounds like you'd rather pursue comedy and just rent, and you'll be okay. Keep the 60 grand. And so here, and if you're going to do this house, let me give you these parameters. No more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, which means if you put 60k down on a 300, that's gonna be about 2,500 bucks a month, which you can afford. if you make 10k, 12k a month take-home.

It's too much. Or you can put 150 down, put half 50% down, your payment comes down to 1,700, which allows you to do more comedy, less full-time, and have a little more wiggle room with your finances. Or, or, can I give option three? I like it. Keep working this day job, the comedy grows.

I know, I know, I know you're a smart guy, but I'm just saying, I would, I would build this thing up and I would save my cash. Can you get the comedy to 5 or 6k a month? Then you're like, okay. I wouldn't buy that. I wouldn't buy the house until you know what full-time comedy looks like.

So you don't even know what that's going to look like. And I think, at the age of 25, I love that. you're going for it. And you're single in 25.. What if you move to LA or New York or one of the market comedy hubs?

Yeah. Or what if you find this one market, you go, I end up flying through this city, making this up Nashville, 60% of my gigs, I end up flying through Nashville or Atlanta. My point is, is, as this thing takes off and you get to a point where you're full-time, then I think about a house arrangement. But until then I would rent and stack your money. Take the pressure off.

I think you just have too many variables in your life right now too. And a house is a long-term purchase. You want to be able to stay there for five plus years to make it worth it. Yeah. Right.

Right. And for those reasons, I would pause. But you're doing great. Yeah. Good for you.

You're amazing, dude. Send me a DM with your comedy info. I want to check it out and see you in your town. I was going to say. Did you ever get to Nashville to do a show?

What are, what are, what are, what are your, what are your handles? Cause, I'll be honest, I'm a, I'm a. Uh, it's all right. George, K-A-M-E-L. George Camel with a K on Instagram and everywhere else.

So, send me a message. Have you done a show in Nashville? yet? I'm actually coming August 1st. Where are you going to be?

Thursday. Where? Zaney's. Yes. George loves Zaney's.

He's a regular. I think we should be there. George, will you remind me to go? and let's support Andrew? I'm marking my calendar.

I've never been more excited. I need you to mark my calendar too. Cause of the, of the two of us, Andrew, I'm the disaster of details. George, it's a Thursday night. I'll get the tickets.

This is very exciting. I'll pave my way. I'll even get you a beverage. What a guy. Well, there's a two item minimum, so you're going to need to.

I'll get me and you. You guys, are well versed. Oh yeah. I was just there last week. I saw Theo Vaughn.

Oh yeah. Hilarious. That's right. It was great. George and I were at the Seinfeld.

And that's right. The next night. The very next night. Yeah. Look at us comedy buffs.

Yeah. There you go. Who's your favorite comedian, Andrew? Me. All right.

I like that answer. Come on. Yeah. Right now? Yeah.

Right now. Let's go, Mr. Big Shot. I'd say Joe List. Oh yeah.

Joe List. Okay. Very good. All right. Fantastic.

This is very exciting. Well, Andrew, we're very excited for you. Please do what we say, cause I think it's going to make your comedy career a whole lot less stressful. And, uh. Yes, it'll do.

So, I just won't do anything. I would not buy a house right now. George and I are in agreement. Keep that money invested. Let it grow.

Keep stacking on top of that. And who knows, maybe one day you can pay cash for the house. Yeah. I like that. That'd be pretty sweet.

Tell you what. What we need to do is you need to send Andrew, if he's going to connect to you, uh, on the gram, you need to send him some of your ideas. So my comedy bits, maybe I can open for him? Maybe you open for him. Maybe he pulls you up there for two minutes.

That would be a real treat. I've, cause I'm going to be there. I'm putting a little pressure on Andrew to get George up there. Maybe we get old Kenny boy up there. I'll tell you, give him a tight five.

I'll do it. I gotta tell you. I'll just do a rant on all my, I gotta tell you about all the things that irritate me. Anytime. Ken says, I gotta tell you to start a sentence.

It's going to be a good story. I love it. Oh, my goodness. We're just getting started. folks.

Don't move quick break. We'll be right back. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. Let's go to Dave.

Who's in Detroit, Michigan. Dave, how can we help? Hi there. Thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm 36 years old and I just need an advice on, I've racked up about a million dollars that before I apparently started listening to you guys, my mortgage, uh, from $900 a month is gone up to about $4,500 a month.

And I'm just trying, I'm just very concerned because I've been constantly listening to you guys and Dave, um, to see, okay, what's the best way to tackle some of this. I've got two investment property in my family house and I'm trying to combine all and you know, with the current market, I just don't feel like I should sell. So what would be the best advice in terms of getting, you know, financially out of the situation, I guess. So when you say you have a million dollars in debt, is that consumer debt or are you including all of these mortgages? Just the mortgages.

Uh, I had some, I had some car loans. As soon as I started listening, I had the money already saved up. Um, so I paid off my car. It was about $1,200 in the car loan that was left. I was planning to buy another car.

I stopped that already. So I've got a two, two under three year old baby. So I was planning to buy a minivan already. stopped that part. Okay.

So you have no consumer debt. You just have a mortgage and then a rental mortgage and another rental mortgage. Correct. And you're saying your total payments add up to 4,500 a month. or is that just on the one mortgage?

Just on my primary house mortgage. Both the other houses, the investment properties, are more or less self-sustaining. The other one, I have got bit of a positive cashflow for about $900 a month. Okay. So if you sold both rentals, what would you net after paying off the loans?

I would probably have $60,000 additional because I bought all those houses, maybe around the peak, one of the houses around the peak of the market. So I may have to sell for maybe a little less. Yes. Okay. And then the current house, the previous house, I may make about $120,000 on that.

So why did you say your mortgage went from 900 to 4,500?

? So I used to live in one of the properties that I'm renting right now. I just moved last year. So. Okay.

And you have a wife? Yes, I do have a wife. She was working before the maternity leave. Now she's no longer working because of the two kids. Okay.

So just your income, what do you make a year? I make about $160,000 a year. Okay. And that's before any rent? I'm sure the rental income isn't much at this point.

Like you said, it's barely cash flowing. Yeah. I got maybe about $900 from one house that month. You called in because you don't want to be in debt anymore. And so to pay off these, you know, to have your, you know, the idea is people get into real estate investment thinking, well, the renter is going to pay my mortgage.

So it'll just be super easy and no stress. Well, as you know, it doesn't really work out like that. And so that you have a few options. Number one is you just tackle these mortgages on these rentals, or you sell the one you like the least, and you start to help. I would, if I'm in your shoes, I would probably just start from scratch, get rid of the rentals, pay down your primary home, because $4,500 a month is not sustainable for your income.

I agree. I make about $10,000 a month. So half of your income is going to the mortgage. Yes. Which tells me there's no way to, we're not gonna be able to get this mortgage lower unless we just sell and downsize.

Could you sell and downsize to a different home?

I would rather not, uh, since it's, uh, you know, something that I bought for the kids, that I'm trying to live. this. For the kids, they're two years old. They don't know what, they won't remember this house. Don't say it's for the kids.

The kids are going to watch you and mom be in stress for the rest of your life because half of your income is going towards this house.

It was a very hard decision to buy the house and I just don't feel, but yeah, I think, I think you're right. Tell me, what do you want to do? Yeah, I want to be financially free. That's all. But what do you want to do?

What is it? What is your next step? Let's say you hang up today and you say, forget those guys on the show who I called to get their opinion. You tell me what you think is the best move for you. So I've got about 650,000 on my primary house as a mortgage and the rest is on those two houses.

So even if I were to sell those two houses, I could make a bit of a dent on my primary house and get a, maybe a bit lower on the mortgage and then start to pay off. Maybe, like every year, I could save maybe about 60, 70,000 and start to pay, maybe in the five-year plan. Or the other option, like you said, is just downsizing to a smaller house, or maybe move to my older house, which was, which is the one that's cash flowing about $900 a month. Now, tell me, which of those plans gets you the most peace in the quickest amount of time?

I think selling my current home would. I may have to take a big hit, though, about $120,000 on that one if I were to sell it. Because you can't get what you paid for it? Yes, sir. You can pause as long as you want to make this decision, but half of your income is going toward that mortgage and these properties aren't cash flowing, which means you're losing money.

It's adding stress to your life. I would sell the rentals, take that $60,000.. I would sell your house, take that $120,000.. That gives you $180,000 to put on your next residence as you downgrade, and hopefully we can get that mortgage lower to about $2,500 on a 15-year fix. That's your sweet spot making $10,000 a month.

That's the problem to solve, for. I don't know. I mean, I wish that I could change the numbers and stamp my fingers, Dave. I want to be helpful, but there's a lot of, just a lot of debt, and you can undo a lot of it because it's just sitting there in the properties, but I don't think continuing down this path is going to be a blessing for you. I just wish my wife would have started working, maybe with the kids.

She was making about $100,000 before, which is not-. Dave, it feels like George laid this thing out for you about as clear as anybody could lay out, and you're just sitting there in pain, realizing how dumb your decisions were. Then, as soon as he lays that out and he's just going, look, you can get out of this. It's going to be painful, but it's more painful to stay in it. You're laughing about it, and then your first comment is, I wish my wife had been making more money.

I feel like it's lost on you what is going on here, which is just owning the fact that you didn't make some good decisions, and now you got a chance to get out of it. It's going to be painful, but you got to do it. It just feels like you're not. ... I mean, again, you do what you want to do, but it doesn't feel like you really locked in and accepted personal responsibility.

Am I right or am I wrong? Yes, you are right, sir. I'm sorry if I'm laughing because- No, no, no, no. You can laugh all you want to. One of the things that I was just listening in maybe previous calls was looking at some of these Instagram realtors and trying to get into the real estate, and that's how I got into this.

You saw an Instagram real and they were like, you need to get investor property now. There's a crazy idea. I watched an Instagram real and got myself stuck. Any Instagram real that causes a million dollar mistake is one worth unfollowing. I'm glad you learned a lesson, but Dave, I guess I'm trying to just lay it on you here.

I'm trying to spur you to action. Stop talking about your wife and her making 100 and not making 100. You got into this because you watched the wrong Instagram accounts. You got into this because you wanted to get rich quick. Yes.

I know. So it's okay. Okay. There's no shame. All right?

And you will survive this. This is not life or death. You're not in a crisis situation, but we need to make some drastic changes. And whether you do that now or three months from now and hope the market does whatever, I don't know what the market's going to do. It may get worse for a while before it gets better.

But I do know this, your life is real tight right now. And you got two little babies and you want to see them flourish and grow and you want to have joy. I don't want to see you distracted by money stress during that as they grow up. They're not going to remember the house. I promise.

They're going to remember their dad being there, making eye contact and they channel your energy. It's contagious. Their nervous system will take on the stress that you have. Yeah. So true.

Yeah. I was just kind of hoping there's one more Instagram real. Dave was like, maybe there's one more I can watch. I don't know. Maybe it's kind of George light.

Unless it's me talking about real estate, telling you not to do it unless you're ready. Maybe unsubscribe. Unfollow that account. Oh my goodness. Keep scrolling.

Oh, good stuff there, George. Good advice. I love it when you, I love when you get tough. I just, you know what? I don't feel good.

I get just a little grumpy. Yeah. A little grumpy. I'm sorry. Go get some meds.

This is the Ramsey show.

This is the Ramsey show where we help you. win in your life, win with your money, win in your work and win in your relationships. The phone number is 888-825-5225.. I'm Ken Coleman, George Campbell joins me. And we're here for you this hour, George, to lead out on your money questions.

I'm here on your income and getting promoted, growing, maybe starting that business. Income, income, income is where I'm here to help. So let's, we'll team up together, make you more money, keep it, invest it, save it well, is our goal. 888-825-5225.. Mike is going to start us off this hour in Charleston, South Carolina.

Mike, how can we help? Hey guys, how are you doing today? Good. How are you?

Good, good. So yeah, I was calling in, I have a question, obviously, about what we're all talking about here. So I have about 70K in debt, make close to 70K, don't have a house yet. And I'm in one of those debt management payment programs, which puts me about two years out of paying off. So I've been thinking to not do that, especially when going toward trying to buy a house eventually, or just do bankruptcy.

now. Why, where did bankruptcy come into play? Yeah, that was a little aggressive. Well, because that's what I first thought before I started reading George's book. I was, that's the route I was going to take, just to kind of start fresh.

Now that I have a different outlook on and mindset on money and all the things that we have possible and available to us. Made dumb mistakes when I was younger, trying to fix that now that I have a family. But what about $7,000 in debt makes you think, well, I had to file bankruptcy? 70, 70.. 70?.

And you make 70?

Yeah, with commissions. Okay. So let's talk about this debt. What kind of debt is this? A little bit of everything, like a little, little bit of car, a little bit of student loans, a little bit of credit, probably about the least is the car.

Okay. What's left on the car loan? 12.. And the student loans?

28,, but half of that will be paid by my job. But it takes about five years.

If you stay with the job, what happens if you leave before the five years? Well, then, obviously, you know, you're, you know what happened, but I don't get it, but I don't plan on going anywhere. Not from what. So if you stay there five years, they'll, they'll pay off half in full, like a lump sum. No, there's currently paying off through it.

It's just that it'll take about five years to hit half. Got it. Okay. And then your credit cards?

24-ish. And that's everything?

I think so. Oh, I do have a personal loan and a personal loan. Okay. About 12.. What's the car worth?

Probably a couple thousand more. It's probably worth 15 or 16?. Yeah. Okay. So, number one, you do not have to file bankruptcy and you shouldn't.

Number two, these debt settlement programs are a borderline scam. I think you probably know that by now.

Did you pay them money? And they said, Hey, we'll take care of it. Stop making payments. Your credit's going to tank and then we'll negotiate. Was that their plan?

No, that's it. No, that's the consolidation. I'm working on one of those, like non-for-profit ones, where they've reached out to my creditors to negotiate better interest rates. Okay. I'm still making payments.

I make them the payment and then I watch as they distribute the payment to the creditors. Okay. Can you get out of this? I've seen them do it. I mean, probably.

Because you can negotiate interest rates on your own. You can call and say, Hey, can you lower the rate? I'm trying to pay this down. So I tried that last year and I only got headway on two out of like the 12 I have. I know that's another story I'm going to do.

Well, the interest rate's not the problem here. We need to make some headway on the debt. And right now it feels like you're delegating all of this to other people, your work, this debt settlement place. You need to just start pounding on the pavement, throwing as much as you can onto these payments using the debt snowball method. So your next smallest debt is the car loan?

Yes. Just not to cut you off, but to go back to what you just said, I'm using the budget app. I'm under by 900 bucks. And that's with the better payments, lower payment, lower interest rate through the program. So you're in the red by 900..

What would you say? is the reason for that? As you look at the budget, is your rent or mortgage too high?

A little bit of everything, I guess. Is it lifestyle?

I mean, I know I eat out too much, but it's not $900 worth.

Well, you need to. actually, the budget is going to reflect the plan, but it doesn't reflect reality of how you're spending. So what you need to do is... Well, this is my first month, so I'm new to this. I just read the book, just started the budget, so I'm hoping I'll get a better view of it after this month.

Do you have the premium version of every dollar?

No, I just started with the basic. Okay, with the book, you'll see the QR code in the book. It'll give you three months of premium. Okay, we do have that. Sorry.

It'll connect to your bank account, and you can track the transactions. Great. So here's the deal. I show people how to go from negative $1,000 every month to positive $1,200.. But what it takes is sacrifice.

So look at every single line item. Here's the question you need to ask. Can I do better? Can I do better? Which means my insurance...

Let me call our friends at Zander and see if they can re-shop my insurance. I just saved our friend, a coworker here, $80 a month just by having her re-shop. She got better coverage for cheaper. Next, look at all of your lifestyle and go, I don't need this subscription. I'm cutting this gym membership.

I don't need this over here. I'm going to cut eating out altogether. I'm going to meal plan, switch my grocery store. I'm getting a tax refund, so I'm going to change my tax withholdings. All of that combined, it may not feel like a lot at once, but as you start to do seven or eight of these things, and in that margin is breathing room chapter of my book, it's going to give you a lot of tips on ways you can cut down.

Then the other side is make more. You said you've got commissions as well? Yeah. The job is the good thing. This all started when I took the job, which involved about an $18,000 pay cut, but in the long run, it's better.

Yeah. I want to jump in. Listen, Mike, a lot of this to me is mindset. I really hope you come off of this call, realizing that you do not need to file bankruptcy, and that was never a good option. You can actually figure a way out of this, and it's going to be a lot better for you.

That's what I want you to understand. I want you to believe that you actually can get this under control. To be honest with you, what you're going to come away with this, Mike, having done this on your own and not using the bankruptcy panic button and doing the restart, is you'll actually get into a place where you'll never be tempted to do this stuff again. Am I right, George? Absolutely.

Look at the numbers, Mike, because I want you out of debt in two years. So what does that mean? You have $70,000.. That's $35,000 a year. That's going to be, you know, if you did $2,900 a month, you would be done in two years.

Now you're going, well, dude, I don't have $2,900 a month to throw at the debt. Well, this is a solvable problem. now. We need to find $2,900 of margin by spending less and making more, like Ken talks about. So whether it's commissions, whether it's side hustles, everything you can do to create $2,900 of margin will get you out of debt in two years.

Do you believe that? I mean, I believe it, but I also believe that with that program, that's saving me over like $300 a month in payment. What's your rent right now? $1,100.. You got roommates?

I'm sorry, no. No, sorry. $2,100.. Yeah, you make $4,000 a month and $2,100 going to rent. Yeah.

This is me calling, so I didn't.

. You know what. you just did? Three roommates. So there's a little money coming in.

You just made excuses again, Mike. You said, this program is saving me instead of you going, I can save me $300 and $410,. you know, $1,000, $1,500.. You need to do it. I don't think you got anything that George said.

I hope you do what we tell you to do, because it's going to save you a lot of heartache and the bankruptcy is not your friend. This is the ranch.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, where we help you. win in your life, win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 888-825-5225.. Gennaro, I hope I'm saying that right, in Atlanta, Georgia, is up next. How can we help?

Hello. Good afternoon, sir. Thank you for having me on. You bet. How can we help?

I'll try to keep it brief. I am an independent contractor at 1099. I make roughly $900 every single week. I'm a disabled veteran, making $755 per month. My situation, I've always been financially pretty incompetent.

I've taken out personal loans. I had credit card debt. I've always paid the minimums and always been floating. Recently, I was involved in an incident that landed me briefly in the hospital and I got an $11,000 bill. My parents came in.

They actually gave me a second chance. They swooped in, took care of it, and, with the promise that I would pay them off. Sometime next year, they didn't give me a date. That really gave me a wake-up call. I had to take a hard look at my finances.

I've actually been able to, after taking that hard look and having a lifestyle change, I've been paying my debts off at about $500 every single week. My question is, I'm hoping I'm not about to do something pretty dumb in the ambition to pay them back as soon as possible. I have roughly $1,700 left of this personal loan and about $5,700 left in my car. I should have that personal loan paid off within the next two weeks with my $500 per week plan. The car loan,

sorry, I forgot an important detail. I've been putting away about 25% of every single paycheck still into this other separate savings because tax season. I'm new to being a 1099.. My question, I know this is going to be a really bad idea, but I was hoping to, when I start on my car payments, I'm still putting away that 25% into my tax savings for next year. I was thinking of when I lower the car payments to the equal amount that I have saved up for taxes next year, I was planning on dumping everything I have into that account, into the car loan to pay it off, and then dumping roughly 40 to 50% of my paycheck to recoup that for the remainder of the year in preparation for taxes and hopefully to pocket some to build on my savings more to start paying off my parents.

I don't know if that would be a bad idea or no or not. So let me recap to make sure we understand here. You're wanting to use the money you've set aside to pay taxes as a contractor and instead pay down your car loan once you have the amount in full, but then you need to turn around and use way more of your future income to save back up the tax fund. Yes, sir. The part that worries me there is I don't know if your budget can handle that, if you're going to be able to cover all of your expenses with the remaining percentage.

So I'm pretty lucky. I live in a very low rent area. I pay, with all utilities, included, about $675 per month, and my job is literally a mile and a half away from where I live. So since I've cut out eating out and stuff like that, I literally am filling up my gas tank about once a month. So what's your total take-home pay?

Right now?

Without me taking a 25% aside and stuff like that? Yes. Let's take out the 25%. Let's say take-home, minus that 25%, because that's set aside for taxes. I'm bringing out $100 per week.

$900 per week? Yes, sir. Okay. $3,600 per month. And then what are your actual expenses for the month to cover all your bills and minimum debt payments?

I mean, I have my internet bill, my streaming subscriptions, all that totals up to around $300.

. I haven't the exact number yet. Everything, with your rent, the insurance, debt payments, all of that. What does that add up to in a month?

Let me pick up the calculator. So $675 is my rent per month. $80 is about my internet bill. The other subscription services are roughly about $250 to $300, sir. Okay, but we still haven't put food on the table.

We still didn't get gas. So here's the overall thing. The numbers are less important. I'm trying to make sure that 50% of your income going towards taxes is actually sustainable. It sounds like a great plan on paper to get rid of debt faster, but you also might be shooting yourself in the foot later on down the road where you go, oh crap, I need to save up $10,000 for a tax bill and I can't do it in time.

Because you have to pay that tax bill on time. Regardless of when you file, the money is due on tax day.

Yes, sir. Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, because this will be my second year filing as a 1099 and the first year, you know, I had a lot of deductions because I was buying everything for the job and, you know, I only put it by 10% and I was lucky enough to walk away with like $900 on that. But I'm just saying your plan got you here. so far. It doesn't sound like you're doing a budget.

I'm going to gift you every dollar premium to help you get on a plan so that you are very aware of all of your numbers, what it adds up to, and then you can make the decision. But if it slows down your debt payment process, but you have the tax money, I'm okay with that. Yeah, just do not use the tax money for anything other than taxes, period. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is the old phrase that comes to mind. And the tax man cometh, and you got to make sure they get paid first.

Man. Yikes. I wouldn't do it. Joshua's up next in Ottawa. Boy, that's always fun.

Joshua, how can we help? All right. So I'm in a bit of a fun, but unique situation. I am a disabled veteran. I have a great setup for that, but we're trying to sell our house and we actually want to move on to a sailboat with our five kids for the next two to five years to see the world within.

Um, yeah. So, uh, the question is about the fully funded emergency cushion. So, um, a, and I haven't got 24 K left in debt that I'd be paying off. My house is on the market for 1.9 million. That's where I'm spending all my extra hours for the past decade and a half rebuilding the old farmhouse.

Um, so the thing is, even if I go with six months of my total income, I ended up with $67,000 in my emergency cushion, pushing through step three and then step four being retirement savings for 15%, moving forward. I got covered. Kids university is covered because my kids get the benefit through the VA, through me. Um, obviously we'd be paying off our house in full and then, when we sell the boat in two to five years, that becomes the budget for the new house period, no more dollars. Um, so we can just stay on step seven for the rest of our life and sort of one failed shot.

Uh, the question I have is that in the crazy event that, like all four of my kids, grandparents die successively and my boat ends up somewhere where it gets hit by a hurricane, my insurance deductible goes to 10% of the value of the boat from 2% of the value of the boat. Meaning that my $67,000 emergency cushion wouldn't even cover my $75,000 deductible on the boat. And my question is, should I be adjusting my emergency cushion in light of the fact that this quite unusual circumstance, um, could necessitate if, like every negative star aligned, or should I just stick with the six months? Man, that feels like an apocalyptic plan, but if you wanted to go to 75, which covers your deductible, I think that's a fine move. Yeah.

I have a question. Is this the move? Yeah. Well, before that, I guess I have a question is, let's say it happened today. This apocalyptic scenario happened today.

What would you do if you didn't have the emergency fund to cover it? What would your reaction be?

I mean, right now being in the house and not being in the circumstance where we're cruising on the water and the boat has to get pumped. No, I'm playing out your scenario. There's a method to my madness here. So let's say you're in the boat, all of these awful things happen and you don't have the emergency fund to cover it. What would you do?

The deductible? Yeah. I mean... What would you do? Given the fact that it would be less than a 10K gap, I would try to bridge that out of my cashflow.

All right. And what if you couldn't do that? What would you do?

Then I'd be stuck doing what I don't want to do, where I might have to borrow something. Or sell the boat. Oh, yeah. I'm no boat expert. There we go.

So, Joshua.

. Yeah. But if I sell the boat and it's hurricane damaged, right? I lose a lot. I know, but I just...

Yeah, that becomes a lesser.

. Do you see what I did there? I just walked you right up into... Come on, man. If you want to do it, that's fine.

But if you're so worried about all of this, is this the right decision for us to sell the house and go on the big giant exploration? I think that's where George was going. And I have some questions about that, too. But, man, you've just come up with the absolute worst case of all worst case scenarios and then said, what do I do? So that's why...

I'm overplaying that. for sure. I think you are, and I think you're going to be okay. Appreciate the call. Watch Gilligan's Island first.

Listen, tickets for the Live Like No One Else cruise are selling fast. This is the ultimate debt-free vacation, and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who've worked their butts off and changed their family trees. We will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities and other special guests. A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at ramsaysolutions.com slash events.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225..

Well, I don't know how many of you watching or listening were around when the pandemic happened and we had our cruise planned. You and I were ready. I think we even... I think we bought matching outfits for one day. Our trunks were packed, if you can even call them that.

They're more of a Borat situation. I think it was, yeah. And no, we're kidding. But the Live Like No One Else cruise is actually back, George. Have you heard?

You and I are heading to the high seas. I actually can't wait. You're excited about it? Yeah. I've never been on a cruise as an adult, so to get to go...

Oh, I see. I know our tickets are paid for. Thanks, Dave. Yeah. I'm looking forward to it.

for a lot of reasons. The actual sailing and on the sea, the high seas, I don't do so well. So we'll see how. I do. Need some Dramamine?

Maybe. I've only done it once. But other than that, it's going to be a lot of fun. You and me and all the Ramsey personalities, including the big man himself, Dave Ramsey. I think I'm going to try to get him to wear the skipper hat from Gilligan's Island.

I doubt he'll do it, but I'm going to bring it with me and see if I can get him to put it on. And maybe do a little. steering of the ship? No, you know, he'd love that. Certainly photo op.