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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. George Camel, Ramsey personality, host of the George Camel Show, very popular on YouTube, is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225,. very important day for Mr. George Camel and all of us here at Ramsey, in that this is the last day you can get the deal on his brand new book, Breaking Free From Broke, because tomorrow is launch day.

Oh, yeah. You get instant access to my talk, Show Me the Money. It's a video talk. We have an online private event happening next week with a Q&A. And this is the big one, the enhanced audio book.

It's a very cool audio book.

Very cool. And that's totally free when you pre-order the hardcover, and, of course, the e-book as well for you digital readers out there. And no matter when you buy the book, you also get three months of every dollar premium. So I wanted people to have an actionable plan when they walk away and not just, huh, good book. I want you to actually go, live out the principles and take control of your money and choose hope instead of cynicism this year as we head into an election, Dave.

That's hard to do in that setting. But anyway, so the deal is that you have done some in-depth, detailed research on the scams and schemes of the people that want to take your money from you, boys and girls out there, and George exposes the mythology and the villains in the marketplace.

Absolutely. The first two-thirds of the book unpacks the system designed to keep you broke. And I talk about credit scores and credit cards, which I believe are the gateway drug into all the other types of debt. I cover car loans and student loans and mortgage traps and investing traps, and marketing and consumerism, which just exacerbates the whole problem. And I think, once you get through of that, you're going to want to take a shower.

I do need to break free from this kind of broke.

I call them chains because I think most Americans, they work too hard to feel this broke. They're feeling the chains of payments in this world. They feel like they're on the hamster in the wheel, rat in the maze, an Uber ride from hell, and they just want something different. And I think this book is going to help you live counterculturally and give you hope that you can break free from those chains and have freedom with your money.

So you'll get the knowledge, you'll get the confidence to break free, and all of the evidence is there with great detail. And you guys that are a little bit nerdy and like the research, George is a consumer advocate at heart, and he can't resist digging up the dirt and proving to you how you're being screwed.

There's 130 sources in this book. It was exhausting to do all the research, but I had to prove it. Not just my opinion and our experience of you doing the show for 30 years, but actual data from the Federal Reserve and from MIT proving our plan works.

So, brand new book out on the 16th of January. If you hear this before, then, up until midnight on the 15th, you can get the new book, Breaking Free from Broke, and instant access to George's newest talk, Show Me the Money, exclusive access to an online private event next week, a Q&A with George, the enhanced audio book. And so what we decided to do was take all of our audio books from this point forward and put a little jazz to them, make them a little better, make them a little sound effects, some sounders coming in and out, rather than just us reading the book, which is what we.

So I was the guinea pig for this.

Yeah, you were the first one out. I don't know if we're going to want to be called a guinea pig or not, but yeah, but anyway, you were the first one. You were a pioneer, George.

Well, it's because, you know, I've hosted our podcast, Borrowed Future, The Fine Print, and I've always loved that kind of narrative storytelling style that has some of those elements in it. And I even did some custom music, Dave. The intro and outro for each chapter is actually my playing. Even James, producer James, got in there. He played one of them.

Oh.

So that's a little Easter egg for you guys.

Oh, there you go.

Unless you hated the music, in which case it wasn't me, Dave.

Well, until I see the bill for the royalty, sure. Oh, my gosh. Don't worry, Dave. That part is zero. I like it.

I think it's time. I think it's time.

But you talked a little bit about some of this for your section on that live stream last week, and the feedback in the comments was really excellent. I mean, people are hungry to not be stuck anymore.

Yeah. And I wanted to lead with empathy and go, listen, there's a lot of reasons. There's a lot of finger pointing. we can do, a lot of things to blame this year as to why we're not going to get ahead and why we have this situation.

You even blamed the baby boomers. I did not really appreciate that.

Well, it wasn't me blaming. It was here's what I'm seeing out there. You know, for all. like you, Gen Z, millennials are going, the boomers ruin the housing market, Dave. This is why I can't afford a house.

You paid $13,000, which, by the way, I've never lived in a house that I paid $13,000 for. I actually did buy one in the hood one time, but it was not a desirable, not a home that I lived in.

Not quite Chippen, Joanna.

Nope. Nope. Not before or after. But anyway, the yeah. So we were in the housing market for sure, buying our homes for a mere $200,000 or a mere whatever.

Wow. So we know, I mean, the appreciation of the housing market is real.

And Daniel and Rachel were, Rachel was 10 years old when I bought that. So that's a classic boomer story, but it's not 13,000, you goobers.

But it's just one of the things, Dave. I talked about the Fed and Congress and the president, and inflation.

There's a lot of things you can blame it on.

And exactly.

There's plenty of villains out there.

The only person who can fix it is you, and the more we rely and complain, the less we're going to make progress. And so that was one piece of that talk I did, and I unpack more in the book. But the other piece is we all sort of fell into this trap. I tell people, it's not all of your fault, but it's your responsibility. You weren't taught financial literacy.

There we go. Breaking Free from Broke comes out tomorrow. So order it by midnight tonight. This is January the 15th that we're recording this. So January the 16th is launch day.

Appreciate you publishing it.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey, personality, number one, bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Christopher is with us in Dallas, Texas.

Dave, I am a fellow believer, so you are brother, Dave. to me. It is an honor to be on your show today, man.

Oh, we're honored to have you, sir. How can we help?

All right. I'm 28,, married with two under two. I work for a church, making $43,000 a year take home. We are nearly done with baby step three, and we have enough for our bills, but things are tight. I have a friend and mentor twice my age who is a successful businessman.

No, this is a butthole.

That's right. That's a manipulator. Oh, wow. That's what that is. That's a manipulative move.

Yeah.

Big time. The relationship, by the way, isn't anywhere near what you think it is. And let me just say, as a guy who I still have older mentors in my life and I talk with them regularly, a true mentor, as Dave said, would never react that way. That relationship isn't anywhere near what you think it is. And I hate to tell you that, but you need to be aware of that.

I would take his name off the mentor plaque. He gets the mentor plaque beside his name. We have to take that plaque down. I like that. We have to put up a different plaque that just says, guy who wants money plaque.

Okay.

If I'm mentoring someone, which I don't do very often for this exact reason, and I say, hey, go, do this, and they don't go, do it, they don't get anything from me. But the next time I get ready to tell them something, I might hesitate. But I'm not going to go, I told you not to do that. If they come back and go, you told me not to do that, and I screwed this up. Okay.

It was really deflating. Yeah. Yeah, it was really deflating. And it seems like a really good opportunity.

It's like your dad talking down to you. Yeah.

Pretty much.

Yeah. Like your dad yelling at you when you're a grown man. I mean, it's like, golly, that don't work. You know? You're confused about that, too.

Yeah. I would say that a mentor needs nothing from you and should never need anything from you. Other than if they call and it's relational, hey, pray for me, or something like that. But this is a manipulator. The reaction really disgusts me, if I'm being honest.

Yeah, we're going to share on the profits and I'm going to put you to work over here.

Yeah. Something's off.

Yeah. That's wrong. All right. Brian's in Salt Lake City. Hey, Brian.

Doing great, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

So, question. I've followed you for years, but I am in a situation where I'm starting to give. And it is a little bit of a shame around student loans. So, I'm 49 years old and I've got about $20,000 in student loans and I've been paying for about 19 years.

What do you mean by starting again?

I have used your program and had success, but I always counted myself as debt-free, not including my home and not including my student loans.

So you used your program and said it was mine.

Well, yes. But I get motivated and then I don't. And I try to just ignore that this is out there.

And obviously, you're calling because that's not working.

Yeah. I'm anxious about it and I'd love to know what your thoughts are. I know that there are some programs out there around. forgiveness if you've been paying for 20 years.

What's your household income, Brian?

I make about $90,000 a year.

Okay. The program is cut your lifestyle and pay this off in 12 months. That's the program.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yes. It does.

It's very doable. You've got no other debt, but this, right? In the house?

I own my car.

Oh, okay. So we went back to that, too. Okay. So how much do you owe on your car?

About $15,000..

Okay. That's not too bad. All right. So $35,000 out of $90,000.. So we're debt free in under two years.

Brian, do you have any margin in your budget at the end of the month?

Yeah.

How much?

I haven't been good at budgeting, but I wouldn't consider myself living paycheck to paycheck. I have a little bit of savings.

Give me a round number, a given month. I understand you haven't been disciplined, but what's a round number each month that you know you've got margin on?

I'm not sure if I fully understand your question, Kevin, but I have a thousand dollars after.

all bills.

How much can you scrape together in your mind right now, a month to throw at this?

I could come up with, I think, between $700 and $1,000 a month to throw at this.

And then, when you start doing your budget, you're going to get that to $1,500 and you're going to be done in under two years.

And that doesn't include you going out and making some extra money. A guy who makes $90,000 has got some skill set. This is about absolute, you talked about motivation. I get motivated and then I lose motivation. You know, motivation is really about an end result.

Here's the way I look at it. Sometimes, when I'm looking at this stuff, if I'm going, because I do that too, I guess we all do.

We all do.

I go, if someone that I dearly loved, one of my grandchildren's life, depended on it, could I? Well, yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. That's a clear motive.

I mean, you know, so it's not a question of could I, it's a question of will I. Yeah. That's right. That's what it comes down to. This is the Ramsey Show.

Doing okay, Al. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. And just to let you know, I am a long, long-time listener, and this is my first time ever to call.

Well, we're honored. How can we help you today, sir?

I'm honored, too. So, okay. So, question is, this is about paying off mortgage versus leaving the money in investment. The mortgage is about $188,000 at a 3.375 interest. We owe about 26 more years on it, and I am 65 years, well, I'll be 65 in May.

About $400,000, yeah.

Yeah, I wouldn't.

That wakes me up when I look at it that way. And all that is is the exact same thing, but backwards, right?

Right. Right.

So, the only thing that gives me a little bit of pause is if you told me you had $600,000 left over or $800,000 left over, I'd go in a heartbeat, go, do it. $400,000 is kind of like, eh, it's a lot, and you've done really well, but you're going to have to be careful to not go on a spending spree or something, which I don't think you're going to do. It doesn't sound like you.

No. No. And I agree with you that $400,000 would be on that edge, because I've ran the retirement calculators, including yours, and it puts me on the edge.

Yeah. With no house payment, I mean, I always use just, on the high side, 8% of the nest egg, and so, you know, that's what, 20,. what was that? come out? $32,000 a year, right?

As a revenue stream, no.

Okay.

Together, we bring in about $118 gross per year right now.

Working. You're still working.

Yes, I'm still working.

Yeah, okay. All right. But, I mean, if you retired, you'd be on 8% of that max of your nest egg, with no payments in the world, plus Social Security, right? Correct. So, you'd have about half what you've got now coming in, but you'd have no house payment, and you'd not be, and you, but, of course, the longer you work, the more we change that $400,000..

That's correct. Yep. You know. Plus, it'll change the Social Security.

Yep. Yeah. Now, not enough to worry about. I wouldn't keep working for that, but I like working, because I like accomplishing things. I like helping people.

No. In fact, retirement can look however you want it to. You want to work 20 hours a week, 25 hours a week, doing something that keeps you mentally and emotionally active?

I'm not talking about wood shop.

No. You don't have to start out.

Talking about go, do something in your career field, in your discipline, where you make some bank.

Yeah, and you're doing something, really.

But you might do business coaching and make more in 20 hours than you're making now. Right. Yeah. I mean, something high, with a high level of sophistication. I mean, sometimes people say, you know, I'm going to be a fishing guy.

No. Listen, I just read an article last week that hiring managers, with the wave of Gen Z coming into the workforce, they are actively trying to hire older people. The ageism that has been in existence for a while is dissipating. If you're in your 60s, you got some skill and experience, you're a great locker room presence for hiring managers. They'll hire you now.

I have not heard that, but I've got an instant theory that pops into my head. What's your thought? Well, the thing that I'm hearing all over the place in the leadership circles that I'm running in and where I'm doing entree leadership stuff, is that Gen Z is highly skilled in their disciplines, but a lot of them have soft skill problems with relational skills. That's correct. And putting that old dog in there that's very relational almost to mentor and train just by their mere presence seems to make a lot of sense.

It does. And it also squares with the data that Gen Z over, I want to say about 52% of Gen Z reports saying they want to actually work in the office because they want to be mentored. Keep in mind, one of the effects of this generation of the helicopter parents, Gen X and millennial parents is that these kids have been guided in helicopter to the point that now, when they get in the real world, they actually are craving the good ones with character, not the ones we see on TikTok. They're craving some older mentorship in the office. They want that older guy.

The tough old coach.

They do. Someone they feel safe with. Hey, this old guy is going to take care of me and show me the ropes.

He loves me, but he's going to bust me.

Yeah. But they feel security in that someone's going to show me what to do. So there are some benefits. My point here to our greater audience is don't assume that your value drops in your 60s. The data says otherwise.

Hmm. That's interesting. And certainly that's true for Al. We didn't stay with Al long enough to find out what his actual career is, but he's obviously making some money. Six figures coming into the house.

And I was also going to ask you, depending on how much his house has worked, does that change your advice then on that?

No. Because here's the thing that the largest line item, folks in your budget at any time in your life, that the most expensive item in your budget is housing, your biggest expense. Even if your house is paid for, it's still your biggest expense, with taxes, insurance and maintenance. Right? So it's still.

And I like that. And this is safe money too, because as they get older, maybe they need to go into some assisted care. That house is sitting there, that's money waiting for them to cash out.

Yeah. And it's, it's, it just, it, it is one of the two things that we see with the people that have the first one to $5 million of net worth, your first million dollars, up to your first 5 million, is a paid for house and a big old 401k. And he's got both. Yep. Now.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is Deloney, and I'm always railing against social media, especially in the summer, because everyone uploads the highlight reels of their perfect bodies and perfect vacations and perfect kids. And I know they're not real. And I also know that I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams, but I still find myself wishing my life was like other people's. And, based on the data, I know this is happening to you too.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey, Personality, number one, bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Josh and Claire are with us in Des Moines, Iowa. Hi guys, how are you?

We are good.

Cool. How can we help?

Well, we had a question if we should sell our house and move and rent or if we should stay put. And the reason we're asking is because we have some debt and we both drive about 40 minutes each way to our jobs. Which wasn't how it was when we bought the house originally. Okay.

How much debt do you have?

Combined without the house is about $100,000..

On what?

$86,000 on student loans. About $10,000 on a car.

What's your household income?

About $90,000 a year. Okay.

Cool. All right. And what's the house worth?

About $200,000..

What do you owe on it?

Say that again?

What do you owe on it?

About $175,000..

Okay. So by the time you sell it, you don't have much equity, if any.

No.

Okay. So it doesn't really pay off any debt. It just gets rid of the house and you move closer.

Mm-hmm.

Okay. So it doesn't pay off of $100,000 in debt, right? Am I missing something?

No, we're just wondering.

You just want to move closer to work.

Well, that, and the cost of renting versus paying the mortgage, is it worth to be closer to work?

Well, that's what I want to know. So what's the difference? Give us the difference between what rent would be if you moved closer versus your current mortgage.

Our current mortgage is about $1,500, and rent will be about $1,500 to $1,700..

Okay. So let's pretend it's $1,500.. All you did was just write a mortgage payment for a house payment, but you got considerable blocks of time back, which I would then use to make extra money and work more and get this debt paid off. That would be the goal. I think just doing that and spinning your wheels, I would not do.

Okay. We also just had a baby boy, about three months ago.

Congratulations.

So we're still trying to figure that out, too.

Yeah, well, you're not sleeping now, so that's it.

That's true.

I want to know what Claire thinks. Claire, if all things were equal, would you rather be closer to where you work, or is it easier to change jobs as opposed to change the house situation? I know you guys have thought through this.

Yeah, so the original thought was that when we bought the house, I was, like, 15 minutes from my job, and Josh was, like, 40 minutes from his, which we knew was a sacrifice. being in the metro. We knew somebody would have to drive. But right now, Josh just finished his master's in educational leadership, and so we're not even really sure how long we're going to stay in Des Moines, but it feels like he leaves at 630 and doesn't get home until 530.. I'm an occupational therapist, so my schedule is just flexible everywhere, and so it feels like, yeah, the time, it's hard to figure out, like, is it worth the same cost and the effort to sell a house versus rent, but, like, we would get some time back, and especially with a newborn, it feels like time is more important than everything right now.

Well, what's your gut telling you? Before we weighed in, where were you leaning?

I was leaning towards selling to get time back.

That's the call I would make. So, as a parent, I'm thinking through that, and I'm also thinking about the fact that with HUBZ here, Josh getting the master's, we don't know we're going to be in Des Moines long term. I like the flexibility, and it looks like the rent is awash, basically. You said it was about $200 maybe difference, and to get that time back, as Dave said, we got that time to hustle a little bit, pay some debt, but I think renting at this point gives us options if we're moving. I kind of like that as a bridge.

Yes.

Right.

And we go, okay, if we do this part of that, then it's bad, and if we do the whole thing, then it's good, right, kind of thing. Sometimes we even write that down at our house. We type it out and go, this is the whole plan. Simply moving and getting time back and becoming a renter, no. Not a good trade if that's all you do.

Yeah.

It can't be. you get over there and you go, well, we've got a lot of time with the little boy now, and we are renters for the next 10 years because we spin our wheels. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That would be a bad plan. I agree.

And I echo everything Dave said, Josh and Claire, here's what I'd like you all to do. I think you have to have a dream conversation tonight about what Josh's next move or moves could be. And let's figure that out. That will determine the rest of this. That's what Dave just laid out.

There's nothing cuter than a brand new. No.

And so you got to make that big decision first. John Maxwell, our friend, once said, make the big decisions early and manage them for years. This is one of those decisions.

It's a big, big rocks in the glass first, then the next little, then they put the sand in. last. It'll hold a lot more. That's right. And put the big rocks in.

Hello, I'm doing good. Thank you for taking my call today and helping out.

Sure. What's up?

So, essentially I'm in the chemical engineering field and in my current position, I have a great manager and I have a great job, and a job that I enjoy a lot. And I get to travel quite a bit for, however, I do know that, uh, in comparison to other, uh, positions out there that are of similar work, or, uh, that would have the same experience that I have, I can probably get 20 to $40,000 more. What do you mean? that in mind? I'm sorry.

What do you make? Hundred thousand. Okay. All right. So you think that you could change companies and make 140, doing exactly what.

you do now?

different, uh, uh, how big, how big a company?

Uh, it is a, it is a global company. Okay.

So it's not a hundred percent up to your manager.

Uh, no, but it is run, their companies run pretty lean and, uh, it's a very, it's a similar to your company, where it's a single owned, uh, owned by a single person, and that family culture kind of penetrates through and.

through. Okay. So here's what I want to dive into. Two times you've mentioned, uh, the idea that this is either highly stressful, maybe you've got some balance issues. Is that true?

It's, uh, uh, there's a lot of requirements and a lot of expectations that I am able to meet. Um, but it's, uh, it's still enjoyable.

Yeah. So let me ask you this. If I called your boss right now and Dave and I made it happen behind the scenes and we called you back and said, Hey, good news. We got you that a 20 to. let's let's split the difference.

I'd be very happy.

Would you even be thinking about going to these other companies where you could make more and, and do less? Would you even be thinking about it? Okay. So I think that has to be the perspective. So my advice is pretty boilerplate on this.

I'm not sure what a P&L is.

Profit and loss. They've got it.

They're running a business unit. They're running a business unit and responsible for profitability.

And you, when you get a raise, guess what that is? That's more expenses for them.

Yeah. Now, to be frank, my relationship with my manager is excellent. And we've actually had a similar exact type of conversation that you're, that you are describing a few years ago. And he and the company have given me many opportunities. So now, for example, I do projects in a lot of different countries.

I want them to give you opportunities. I also want them to give you money.

That's that.

So have you gotten more opportunities, but no money over the last couple of years? Give us the track record here.

Yeah. I mean, so. I've been employed for five and a half years with the company, progressed quite a bit, level of responsibilities, and the projects that I'm doing for my...

What about your financial progression?

It's been, I think, close to $25,000 increase.

Over five years?

Five and a half years with projects.

Okay. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to do better research, to go with Ken's suggestion than you have done to date. I want some detailed written compensation studies from LinkedIn, Monster.com, whatever, showing. this is the detailed description of these people, and this is what the average person makes.

Today's question comes from Joseph in Georgia. I'm 22 and didn't go to college. I feel stuck in this customer service job. I have making a little less than $30,000 a year after taxes. I had a few other jobs besides the one I just mentioned, and my favorite was in asphalt paving.

That's kind of life.

That's kind of how it is. When I come home from my very non-labor-intensive job here at Ramsey Solutions, I'm in bed by 10 o'clock.

I don't know. There's lash marks on your back, I think.

I know, but I only have, as I see it, about four to five hours, and my life's pretty great. I think we need a perspective shift here. I'll leave it alone, so I don't sound like the old man here, but you need a new perspective on what your long-term goals are, as well as your short-term financial goals. What I would say, because I worked in the masonry industry in college, hardest job I ever worked in my life, I was on the job site at 7 a.m., Dave, mixing the mortar, dumping the mortar in a wheelbarrow, wheeling the wheelbarrow around the job site, which, if you've ever been on a home job site, that's like a mogul ski course.

That's how you develop those muscles.

That's why I am the brawny man I am today, Dave. It's stuck with me. When I was done distributing the mortar, I've got to tell the rest of the story, it was brick tongs. You repeat this process all day long. It was a 10-hour day.

A lot of partying going on. Yeah,

That's the company you keep. I mean, how could you not enjoy three hours of me day?

That's it, that's it.

Hey, can we...

The brawny man over here, the brawny, brick-tongued guy.

I know, it's terrible. Hey, you know what? Benjamin Franklin actually said. this. You know, you see all these quotes about these old, famous people from history.

I'll guarantee you that has played an element in the level of success I've personally enjoyed.

I know it has.

Because I am a, when I was growing up, I was naturally a night person. I mean, in college, I could stay up till 2 in the morning, I never thought anything about it, and I'd sleep till 10, you know? And I never took any early classes because I was lazy, didn't get out of bed.

I was the same way.

But when I graduated from college, got married, became an adult, and quit partying all the time, met God, you know, I started going, okay, I'm going to dedicate the first hours of the morning to my mind, my body, and my relationship with God. And so I'm going to read, I'm going to do some kind of exercise, I'm going to spend some time with Sharon, I'm going to spend some time in prayer and with Scripture. And Sharon and I have gotten up at 5 a.m. for, I don't know, 30 years? Wow.

Yeah, that'll do it.

I'm like, how do you start at four?

How do you get up?

He goes, well, if you want to get up that early, you've got to go to bed early. Yeah. Oh, there's that. Okay. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

Sure. What's up?

I am calling because I want your insight on how I should start with long-term investing as a 21-year-old with no debt, no credit, and about $40,000 in savings.

Way to go.

Wow.

What a great head start.

Thank you.

You're obviously very smart. How did you learn all this?

Well, Dave, I have fantastic parents who are huge fans of yours. I think I've been listening to you since I drive back from kindergarten.

You're a financial peace, baby. Okay. I love it. That's awesome. Well, then, you know that we teach folks to stay out of debt, which you have done, to have a plan, which you have done, to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, which you have done, and then start investing 15% of your income into your retirement, first with a match, second with a Roth, and third, just make sure you get 15% in there.

Okay. I'm curious about having the no credit, what your thoughts are on that, because I know you talk about buying your house in cash and your process with that.

Buying a house with cash means you don't need credit, number one. Number two, if you don't have credit and you want to buy a home with a mortgage, you do that with what's called manual underwriting. Not all mortgage companies know how to do that anymore. Churchill Mortgage, that we've endorsed for almost 30 years, does know how to do that, and they can help you do that. If you're steady on your rent and you've been on your job two years and you have a good, solid down payment, you do not need a credit score to buy a house.

Yeah. I wish more people would pay attention to these calls. Fast forward, she starts investing 15% right now. She hits millionaire status. at what age, roughly?

34.. Yeah. She's having that worth of a million dollars, probably in about 14 years.

By the way, the American dream is alive and well. Yeah.

And that's a Gen Z.

That's right.

By the way, for those of you that are Gen Zs and think that, Oh, it's all over! It can't happen! Oh, no! You know, oh, God. All the whining that's out there.

It's just the drama.

It's like every generation that has come along thinks that the generation before them stole all the opportunity. That's right. There's nothing left!

The old people took it all!

Oh, brother. And the old people, every generation that's come along, think the next generation is a bunch of doofuses.

That's true. It's generational warfare.

Neither one are the truth. That's right. I mean, this generation is full of wonderful people like Cammie. We've got a building full of Cammies. That's right.

How are you doing, Dave? Thanks for having me.

Sure. What's up?

Nothing. I just have a question for you.

Okay.

So I've been investing in real estate for, like, the past 15 years. I got kind of lucky. I didn't use your advice. I used leverage. But I sold everything.

How much money you got stacked?

About 90 grand cash. And I owe, the only debt I have is my mortgage, and I owe about 68 grand.

And you're not working?

Well, I work, I manage my rentals. I currently have about 10 units.

Oh, I thought you sold them.

I sold a few of them, and I kept.

And they're all, the ones you have are all debt-free? Correct. Oh, good. Okay. All right.

Well, the other thing I want to know is he's got $90,000 set aside and he still has a house payment. It's his only debt.

I'm probably going to clear that.

I'd want to clear that, especially while we're sitting on the sidelines. So, the $90,000 goes into the house.

Yeah, if you don't stumble upon a deal to put that back into pretty quick, I'm probably going to go ahead and clear that mortgage and then start stacking cash out of the rentals and out of whatever else I can do. I mean, you may want to go into the service side of the real estate business, go ahead and get your license, become a property manager, manage other people's properties and yours. I did that at one point many, many moons ago. I can tell you it wasn't my favorite thing to do, but I did do it for some extra cash flow at the time. It worked out good.

We knew we had a good year. It's been really fun and rewarding to see that. People getting aware of who they really are.

The way we translate that around Ramsey is it means we have something that's helping a lot of people. Yeah. Because otherwise we don't make money on it. If we make money, it means that we helped a lot of people. There's a correlation between those two things.

Oh, fantastic.

Jade is officially a national bestseller. Her first time to be on one of the lists. We're congratulating her and running around this place screaming and yelling and celebrating on her behalf. All of those things are available at RamseySolutions.com. Be sure and check them out.

Thank you, Dave. How are you today?

Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

Well, my husband and I are in a little bit of financial distress, and we're looking to see where we can cut corners, and we would like to reduce our car payments. One of our car payments is $508 and the other one is like $644, but we're upside down on them. We don't have the money to pay the difference of the upside down part, and we wondered what is your advice on what we would do in that situation.

Boy, you're deep in it.

Yeah, we're deep in it.

Let's see. What's your household income?

$115,000, and I'm looking for a job.

Oh, you're not working. He makes $115,000?.

Right.

Okay, good. What will you be making when you get your job?

Maybe about $1,200 a month.

Why so low?

Because it's just a cashier type job.

Do you have any previous work experience?

As a photographer, I was a photographer, had my own business, but I wasn't a very good business person. I didn't make a lot of money.

How old are you?

I'm 58, and he's 66.. Okay.

You can make $20 an hour, which is a lot more than $1,400 a month, at freaking Target. Okay. So, I mean, you're going to do a lot better than you think you're going to do if you get out there and poke around a little bit. That's right. Even on an entry-level cashier, you can do a lot better than what you're thinking.

I think we owe around $24,000..

Really?

What's it worth?

I don't know.

How do you know? you're upside down?

My husband tells me these things.

Okay.

It's an electronic Mini Cooper or an electric Mini Cooper.

So did you guys get screwed on the interest rate? Because that's a very high payment for $24,000..

Yeah. Our credit rating is real bad.

So they stuck it to you. They electrified you with an electric Mini Cooper.

Yeah, that's what they did.

Okay.

So what year is that?

It's a 2023..

Sorry, Dave. So you just recently made this mistake. Yeah.

Yes.

Okay. All right. So let's just give you some numbers as an example, to answer your question. Do you know who you owe the money to?

Yes.

Who?

We owe it to the Mini Cooper financial people.

What about the other car? Who's it owed to?

By Star Credit Union.

Ah, okay. And that's the $550.. Do you know what you owe on that one?

$20,000.. Okay.

I'm going to use that one as an example. Okay? Let's pretend that when you look it up, you find out that that car is worth $15,000 and you owe $20,000 on it. Okay. And you're upside down $5,000..

Okay.

Now you're going to owe $5,000 instead of $20,000.. And on the other one, you're $7,000 upside down maybe. I don't know. I'm making that up. And you're going to owe $7,000 instead of $24,000..

The credit union. letting me sign a note for the difference.

They might. Go down and sit and talk to the manager with you and your husband. Because here's the situation. If they repo the car, they're not going to get even $15,000 for it. So they have currently an unsecured note for $5,000 and a secured note for $15,000..

Okay.

You understand what I'm saying?

And sign a note for the difference.

Let me sell it for what it'll bring. I'll bring the buyer in and I'll sign a note for the difference, because these payments are killing me. And they might even loan you the money for the amount that you're upside down in that other one.

Okay.

Do you have any idea how many miles you have on that Mini Cooper, the electric?

Around 50..

You also need one of the assignments I'm going to add to this. I'm just doing some quick web research, so I don't want to hold you to this. But I would be looking to see if that thing is worth what you owe on it right now or pretty close to it.

You might be able to break even on that one.

Which would be the play. But you've got to check that out right now. What's it worth right now? If you sell it private seller. Now?

Put the thing on the market on Craigslist and Trader.com and get it sold for $25,000.. Instead of losing money, you gain money. Because I'm looking over Ken's shoulder right now. I see $27,000, $29,000 might be the value on this thing.

Okay.

So you all look at that and let's make sure. Because if your husband is looking at trade-in value only instead of private sale, and that's how he determines you're upside down, then he's just signing you up again for another mess. Because you all really suck at doing car deals. I mean everything you've touched around cars really sucks. So I'm really not trusting your husband's input at this point.

I was wondering if that's where you were going. Oh, man. And by the way, I just pulled up, just for our friend and Allison and all of you. that kind of wonder, was Dave, what is he talking about? Is it going to work?

$2,003. Honda Accord EX, $4,900..

A Honda will run for like 300 decades.

Until God comes back, I'm telling you. A lot longer than an electric Mini Cooper will.

That's true, actually.

Oh, Jack. This is the Ramsey Show.

Hi. I'm good. Thanks, Dave. Ken, thanks for having me on. Sure.

What's up?

I am 39.. I live with my wife and two daughters. We are debt-free, thanks to my wife and to your plan. We do owe $260,000 on a house worth about $550,000.. I'm an industrial designer with a master's degree.