What Is Your Relationship With Money?
2024-05-27 01:55:13
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions. It's the Ramsey Show where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people actually build wealth, actually do work that they love, and actually create amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, and my daughter is with me today as co-host, will be taking your questions about your life and your money. The phone number is free.
Some say the advice is worth what you pay for it. 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225.. Looks like Mario's going to start us off this hour, and he is in Atlanta. Hi, Mario.
How are you?
I'm doing better than I deserve, as you would say, Dave. I'm doing great. Glad to be on the show.
We're honored to have you, sir. How can we help?
The big point is I'm fairly new. I'm not new to you, but fairly new to the show, and I'm really on fire and on board about just becoming financially free, debt-free. The teachings that you and your team teach are phenomenal, and my big question is I want to know the best way to get my wife on board with implementing some of the drastic changes that we would need to make in order to get to that point. I have a strong income.
I know all of our debt areas. I know the areas where I feel like we're spending too much or overindulging, but I know that I'm going to get some resistance with the changes that we're going to need to make in order to get to where I know that we can get to. Give me an example of one of the changes.
that you think you need to make, that you think you're going to get resistance on.
Some areas are convenient, like going out to eat a lot or ordering food.
How much debt have you got?
A lot, including house.
No, not including house.
Okay. Credit card debt, I'm at about $15,000. credit card debt. Student loans total around $75,000, and I have one car that's not completely paid off, and I think we owe $12,000 on that car.
And what's your household income?
$175,000.
Yeah, it's a great income. So, Mario, what's causing you to believe that she's going to have a hard time with all of this? Is it comments she's made? Is it something that, in your head, you just know her and you know what's going to be coming? Has she given you clues on it?
Oh, I have proof. Oh, yeah.
I have proof. So yeah, absolutely. Comments she's made. There's other things that I've-.
So why?
. implemented.
So then, for her in these conversations, what are her hesitations?
A lot of it has to do with our kids.
So like, for instance, I'll say, okay, hey, we've completely paid off this particular credit card. We're not going to use it. We're going to put it up. Interest rate is high on this thing. It doesn't make sense.
I'm paying somebody to borrow from my future self. I do all of that, and she's great. Sounds good. But then time will go on, and I'll see charges on the credit card. And then when I say, hey, what happened here?
Why did this take place? And it was like, oh, I had to do this. I had to make this decision and do this. And so it's just kind of like these things come up. Like I said, a lot of times, it's with the girl.
Yes. You know, my kids.
Sure. And it's life, right? Because you guys have not put systems in place for life to look different. So you're still keeping the credit card. We're going to put this credit card over here.
We shouldn't touch it, but it's still there. Get rid of it. Get rid of it. Do you guys have a written budget that you have together sharing an account saying, hey, here's the line item for the kids. This is what we're going to spend on the kids.
Here's the line item for you, me, food, out to eat, clothes. Here's where every single dollar this month is going.
I've done all of that.
No, have you guys together? Some kind of way things will happen. Have you guys together done that? We? have we done that?
or have you done that?
So I have done it and I've shared it and it's communicated. This looks good. I'm on board. Let's do it. Let's run this plan and we'll start running the plan and.
Okay, totally. So, Mario, I also think I'm sure Ramsey has become a cuss word in your house, because, a little bit of me, I'm fearful that you're using this against her, because I don't believe your wife is malicious. I think she's a great mom, probably a great wife. And so these things, life is just happening to her and she's reacting, obviously not in the way that you prefer or that even what we would teach, right? She's going charging the credit card, all that, but it's not malicious.
And so I think that there needs to be a higher level conversation to say, okay, you and I together as a couple, where do we want to be? What do we want life to look like in five years? What do we want? What is our? why?
Like, does she have any level of pain or stress around money? Is she worried in any way? Like? I want you guys to.
Yeah. Me, for the most part, I am.
The weight's on you.
I don't want to have to work until I retire.
A hundred percent. Totally.
And right now I'm the.
Listen, listen. She's a homemaker. You're treating her like she's your teenage daughter. She's not a partner in any of this. You're just bringing the budget and laying it down, giving some instructions about a credit card, and then you're shocked that she didn't do what you told her to do.
She's not a partner. Rachel's right. You need to get above this. And the two of you need to sit down with the kids away or the kids in bed and say, we have $102,000 in debt. We make $175,000..
That makes us stupid people. We need to change some stuff here. We're broke and we make $175,000 a year. We have got to, as a couple, aim at something bigger than kids clothes. Lord Jesus.
Really? Yeah. Okay. And so we've got to have a big plan that we're going at. Now, honey.
And he feels it. I know, I know, I know. But this is him and his wife talking. Okay. Yes.
We have to get on the same page. I do not want to be your daddy. I don't want to be your daddy. I want to be your husband. I need a grown woman beside me helping me make decisions about our future.
And she needs an input in all of that too.
And then she gets input.
That she gets to say.
And then, by God, when she gives input, it's a contract.
Yes. Yes.
But she has no reason. She has no contract with you now because you dictated it to her and walked away. And then we're shocked that she went and bought kids clothes on a credit card because she had no buy-in. She had no buy-in. None whatsoever.
She didn't have a voice in this. And she has no belief in the overall vision. She was just going along with you.
Yes. And I would say this too, just as an encouragement, Mario, that the conversations that I feel, like Winston and I, the best conversations we have around money, is not really even about money. It's more like, hey, let's just dream. And in five years, what do we want our life to look like? How old are the girls going to be?
What kind of car do we want to drive? What vacations do we take? What do we want to be giving to in general? Allow your numbers then to motivate you to your goals together as a couple, where you guys both want to go. And then the day-to-day plays into that.
I mean, I'm looking at her and I'm going, I make $175,000 a year. I'm really not okay with us being broke.
I think that's fair.
It's just crazy.
But also there's a level. Yes, I know. But there's also a level, marriage-wise, to get above it, to have a conversation as a couple.
I think it's all of that. I think it's every bit of that. But I think you've got to say, look, we're sloppy. We're disorganized. We're fat.
And what can we do to help you for the life? What can we do together to fix this?
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Gets conversations going among the kiddos. And grab one of our family favorite children's products. Help out with all this. We're all there to help you at RamseySolutions.com. Evan's with us in Winston-Salem.
Hi, Evan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi, Dave. How are you?
Better than I deserve. What's up?
Well, me and my wife, we're on baby step three B, trying to save for a house. And we've got a chance to buy a house from a family member. She's my wife's cousin. And not really like a close family member, but they're offering it to us at 3.5% interest on a 15-year fixed rate owner financing. And I've called around to the bank.
The best that I can do is probably around four or a little over four. And so me and my wife, we're longtime listeners. And we just wasn't sure about owner financing or if that was a safe thing to do.
Owner financing is as safe as anything else. If you have a good attorney, draft the documents. It's not a land contract. It's an actual mortgage. And the deed of the house goes into your name.
Yes. Okay. No land contracts at all. We don't do those. Okay.
Now, the downside of the whole scenario you're giving, the other upside is you're going to have a lot less costs involved, closing costs, other things that you're going to not have with owner financing. So that part's all wonderful. How often do you have dinner with this cousin?
This is the first time that we've spoken to him. And probably at their wedding about 10 years ago, maybe.
Okay. So you never see them. You're not mad at them, but it's not a relationship you have.
No, it's just not one that we have. Okay.
Because here's the thing. It's going to affect whatever relationship you have. The borrower is slave to the lender. When you borrow money from someone, you change your relationship from cousin to master.
Yep.
Okay. And so if your father-in-law loans you this money, I would tell you no, because Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master. It will change the tone, the relationship between you and your wife, her dad, all that kind of stuff. Never do that one. But this one is really, there's not much of a relationship here.
This is almost like a stranger.
Yes. And so I'm probably doing it.
Okay.
I agree. It's another one, Evan, in most of the calls, though, when it comes to borrowing money from family, it's just an absolute no. But there's these exceptions like this. This is so distant. Yeah, where it's so distant, and it's like, you're not going to be with them.
You're not seeing them every day. You guys aren't chatting and talking. There's not really much of a relationship to hinder, because there's not much of a relationship. So in that, it makes sense.
Nobody's mad. We're not saying mad, but it's just a, you know, the thing is, if it absolutely completely went bad and went sideways and everybody was mad, it really wouldn't change your life.
Right.
Yeah. And we're not calling that. We're not saying it's going to happen. But the point being that, you know, if you borrow from your father-in-law, you lose that relationship. Or a sibling or an in-law.
Yeah, somebody you're spending time with. But, like Rachel's, got cousins that she actually has really tight relationships with. Right. That you would not do this. You would not do this.
deal with them, because it would change it.
Yeah.
Not a chance. I'm not changing. Because I'm telling you, man, the old joke is, if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it? Right. I mean, you know, because it does change the relationship when you loan or borrow money.
It just does. So, but the point being here is there's not much relationship to change. That's, I'm doing it because it's a cheaper interest rate. It saves money. Make sure you have an attorney.
Close the deal like you would any other professional transaction. Get title insurance. Get an inspection on the house. Get an appraisal on the house. All of those kinds of things you would do if you're doing a normal transaction to where no one's getting screwed here.
No one's, it's all very businesslike and buttoned up. All the documents are done. They're properly filed at the courthouse. A title company does the closing. You do everything right here.
If you do all that right, you're going to have lowered cost and lowered interest rate, and it's a good deal. Go get it.
There you go.
Matthew's with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Matthew. How are you?
Great. How are you guys doing?
Better than we deserve. What's up?
I've just got kind of a career question, but I was going to give you a rundown of myself and my wife's financials first. Um, I make, we're both self-employed, um, no debt other than our home. I make about one 20.. She makes about 60.. We owe one 60 on our home.
It's worth about three through five. Um, and I actually sell real estate, really looking forward to the reality check. Um, and I'm just curious, should I take the chance, because I have an opportunity to start my own brokerage, but should I take that chance with a baby on the way, with all the risks that we know come with starting your own company?
So you're a real estate broker, now making 120,000 a year.
I'm an agent. Yes. I'm not a broker yet. I'm getting my license shortly. Yes.
Okay. How long have you been selling real estate?
A little over a year.
Okay.
I'm 22.
. My wife's 22 also.
Okay.
I was doing the same thing you're doing when I was your age.
Um, and I got my real estate license when I was 18.
. Okay. So, uh, I know what you're facing. One of the things you're facing is it's tough to have credibility with people to sell them houses when you're only 22,, right?
Yeah.
You've got an uphill battle there, and having your own brokerage would probably help with that a little, or it might scare them even more.
Well, see, I feel like I don't have as much of a problem with selling real estate. Customers as I would with people working under me who have been doing it 20 years, and.
think how young you are. Right. Probably like a leadership perspective. Someone respected. Yeah.
And just with a kid doing October, it's like, do we take a chance when we're sitting pretty good right now?
Yeah. And we've got a real estate market that is, um, twisting and turning in the wind. So it's very unpredictable right now. Uh, I, I think the market's going to slow down. I don't think house prices are going to go down.
We've already said that out loud, but I think it's going to slow down.
So my, yeah, my only concern would be, Matthew, you got into the real estate business in the best time ever. So like what you made then, not saying you can't make that again by any means, but it was probably easier to make what you made then. Then it's going to be easier to make that same amount in the next coming years because of the slowing and softening of the market.
What's your wife say?
She says do it because it's a, it's a pretty good option. I mean, it's a pretty good opportunity with a business partner who has a very good end.
I'm sorry, a business partner. That's new information.
Yeah. I would be opening it with a, with a partner.
No, don't do that.
Oh, really?
No, you're already married.
Yeah. Listen, the only ship on sales of partnership, the number of business, small business partnerships that survive one decade, is very close to zero. Almost none of them do. We work with entre leadership businesses, tens of thousands of them, and have for decades all across America. And one of the biggest problems they have is a stinking partnership.
It's gone sideways. Now. the exception is medical partnerships and law partnerships, but they're structured differently anyway. It's all different sets of setup, but two guys opening a real estate company, two guys opening up a heat and air company, two women open up a nail salon. This is just a, it's just an, it didn't know.
No, no, no, no. You don't, you don't need a partner. Okay. So what I, what I'm going to tell you, is, is scary for me to tell you, because I believe in getting after it when you're young and you're an ambitious and smart young guy. And I hate to tell you not to do something, but while you get, another 18 months is going to give you a lot of information about life.
A lot of perspective, especially if it's your first baby too. There's just a lot of change.
Let the baby get born. Let's get past some of this rough patch in the real estate. Let's see what's going on. You save up, you open up with your money. Doesn't cost that much to open up a brokerage firm.
If you open it up on your 25, instead of your 22,, you're going to be just fine. And a little patience. Yeah. I think it's gonna be good for you.
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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host. today. Emma is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Emma. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.
Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.
Sure. What's up?
Okay. So my husband and I used to own a bunch of rental properties and we ended up going bankrupt because we listened. We had your book and somebody else's book and the other person's book said it was okay to have debt whenever you're renting. We ended up being over $100,000 worth of credit card debt just because things were breaking in all of the houses.
Yeah. And you had no margin because you put nothing down. Right.
And we have a family of six. So there was a lot of mouths to feed and I had some health issues and I was homeschooling those four kids. So there was only one income.
And y'all lost all that.
We did lose all of it. Yes.
When was that, Emma?
That was 2017.
Yeah. Me too. It was 1988.. Yeah.
Okay. Well, we got out of that, got to the point where we could buy another house. And now, as I speak, we've got $16,500 worth of credit card debt, which I'm trying to pay that down. I've got a spreadsheet where we're down $3,538 in the last six months. But still the total debt is, with a $5,000 balance on a car, is $223,480..
That counts your house?
Yes.
How much is that your house? I mean, that's all your house, except for you got the low credit card debt and the... You got $20,000 plus your house, right?
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's about it.
And what's your household income?
It's right now sitting at 95.
. Okay. And...
So what's your question?
So my question is, I'm finding my emotional relationship with money is bad. You know, the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. I hate money. I get rid of it.
You are avoiding evil.
It's a spiritual stance on it's part.
Honestly, I have some family issues where my one family member has a lot of money and he is not a really nice person. He uses it to manipulate people, and so I don't want to be like him.
Well, money didn't make him that way. Money exposed the fact that he is that way.
All money does is magnify.
Okay.
If you're a jerk and you get money, you're a big jerk. If you're crazy and you get money, big, lots of crazy. Okay. If you're kind of compassionate and generous and you get money, you're what we would call a philanthropist.
Like you, change whole worlds because you give so much. So, you know, it's not money. It's just you just got a jerk in the family. Well, welcome to being in a family.
Okay. So you... But you've had... You have a negative relationship with money is what you're trying to say. I'm not making fun of that.
I'm just laughing with you because you're funny. I like you. Okay. So...
And so it's caused a lot of pain, Emma, is what you're saying. Money is a place and you don't feel like you have a good handle on it, because you guys have this credit card debt and you just think, oh my gosh, I just feel like I have no control over this part of my life. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel safe.
I've already proved that by going bankrupt once.
Yeah. I did too. And so, yeah, then you got to decide, am I going to happen to this money subject or is it going to happen to me?
Mm-hmm.
And what's going on is it's been happening to you.
Yeah. And I think, understanding, Emma, it's not just the money part. I mean, I think the money exposes some things, but I think I wrote a book called Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and I'll give you a copy of that.
Yeah, that book is perfect for this.
But it's to understand. why do I handle money the way I do? And I think for you, Emma, I think it's some good kind of questions to ask yourself. Everything from how you were raised, what kind of tension was money in the household? What kind of value did your parents place on it?
And kind of walking through that, understanding your tendencies. Are you more of a spender or a saver? Are you more scarcity, mindset or abundance?
What's your biggest fear? A lot of people are driven by fear. They don't want to end up how they grew up. A lot of people have that fear. So they'll swing the pendulum so far where they save so much because they don't want to be poor like they were growing up and they saw the hardship or whatever it is, right?
So everyone has their own step. So that, plus Emma being married, you have a spouse that has all different factors of everything we just listed. And so working together and all of that can create, yeah, just a lot of tension, a lot of stuff.
That, combined with the failure on the other part and with a house full of kids, a homeschool, all of those things combined to take away your confidence and your power, your emotional power over money. Does that sound right?
Yeah, that sounds perfect.
Are you guys, Emma, you and your husband, do you guys do a monthly budget?
We look at money, we look at the debt together and we're trying to get that number down.
I'm going to pile you on with some stuff. I'm going to give you every dollar a premium, okay, as well in this call, because I think one of the things that can feel so out of control, and people do this a lot, Emma, so I'm not picking on you, but they're like, oh yeah, I just have kind of all the expenses in my head and it's just, it's like, it's this imaginary thing that can suddenly become very isolating. It can be very scary when you don't see the facts. And Dr. John Delaney talks about this all the time, that facts are your friends.
And I think a budget, honestly, working in that and seeing, okay, here's our income that's coming in, because you guys make a great income, nine to five grand, you're doing great. But to be able to say, here's the plan for that. And then for you, over the course of time, and I bet you, if you guys start that this month, I bet by January, February, there's going to be a level of confidence over this, Emma, because you're going to learn how to live within boundaries and make different decisions. And you're going to be at the grocery store and be like, okay, we got 200 bucks this week.
And I can spend that and I don't have to worry.
Yeah. And what do I have to spend to stay within that? And it's this practice of discipline and being in control of what the, that's what the budget does. And I think that really will give you guys a sense of confidence too.
I think the $3,500 in debt that you paid off is absolutely amazing, because you've been beating it with a hammer, not slicing it with a sharp knife. And Rachel just gave you a sharp knife. It's going to go a lot easier. You're just beat the heck out of it.
I mean, yeah.
You just beat the snot out of it. This $3,500 was heavy lifting. You gutted that out, girl, because you didn't have it. You didn't have a sharp knife. You're just wailing on it with a club.
You guys should also know that most of my children are six foot tall and our food budget is $1,600 a month.
So that's okay. That doesn't mean you can't get control of money.
Okay. That, I know there's places, I know there's other places I can cut spending.
Yeah.
So I think that's what it is.
You don't even know where your spending is, because you don't have it all written out. Right. You get every stinking detail. You will be amazed. You and your husband sit down and look at where every single dollar is going before the month begins and give every dollar an assignment.
That's why we call the app EveryDollar. Because you're giving every dollar a mission. And when you do that, you're both going to go, where the crap have we been doing?
And Emma, and try this, you know, $1,600, that's before a budget. Try $1,400 for the month, right? Like you, start practicing this like ebb and flow and see, okay, where can we get an extra hundred, few hundred dollars here or there? I mean, like. it's amazing the power that that really does give you and to be able to cut stuff.
But honestly, I think for you guys getting some quick wins, I think you said, Emma, Confidence. That it took six months to pay off.
$3,500.
That. So I want you to do that even faster.
No, you're going to do it a lot faster because you're going to have a sharp knife instead of a club.
You're going to have that. So I think that's going to start to give you guys confidence. But I think it's just rewiring these habits and it takes time. But you're not a failure, Emma. And that's the other thing.
Is that this people equate their net worth or their money mistakes to who they are. And that's when they talk about shame, that shame is your identity. So take those apart. That you are not the past mistakes that you've made. You are not your net worth.
That is not who you are, Emma. And so there's a level there that I want you to release. that, because that stuff will follow you. And those lies will just play a tape in your head that you don't need.
Yeah. You're doing better than you think you are, especially considering how blunt the instrument is you're using.
Yeah. But stay on the line, Emma, because, Austin, I want to give her Know Yourself, Know Your Money and Every Dollar Premium.
You're going to love that book, Emma, because it's exactly talking about you. It's a number one bestseller and you don't want to miss it. It's Know Yourself, Know Your Money, by Rachel Cruz. And it's all that, not only family history, but your tendency, scarcity, abundance, all that stuff. It's brilliantly done.
You will love it. And we'll put you in the Every Dollar budgeting app, and that will change everything. You and your husband do that together and turn off the stupid TV and tell the six footers to go in the other room. We're working on the budget. This is The Ramsey Show.
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Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.. Hey, if you're brand new to this show and a whole bunch of you are based on our ratings increases and our ranking increases and so forth, we appreciate all of you being here. And, of course, if you're hearing stuff like baby steps and debt snowballs and you don't know what all that means, you want to get plugged in, go to ramseysolutions.com for free and click on the Get Started button. When you click the Get Started button, it'll help you figure out where you are and what your next steps are.
And you'll start to learn the lingo of the stuff we're talking about and figure out how you can best apply some of this and start to change your life. So, hey, that's what we're here for. The phone number here, 888-825-5225.. Brian's, in New York City. Hey, Brian, how are you?
Hey, Dave, Rachel. Pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for taking the call.
Sure, what's up?
So my wife and I are out of debt. We built up our fully funded emergency fund and we're in baby step 3B. We are currently renting. We're about an hour away from the city. So, and we commute into the city to work and we're trying to save up for a down payment.
and we're doing, we're trying to cut corners and take every step we can to increase the amount that we can save each month. And I'm just wondering if I should change my retirement down to zero and what my wife should do with her percentage at work. Currently, I'm working part-time and I'm also staying at home with the kids. So we're cutting out childcare there and she works as a nurse, manager and full-time, and her job has a 4% match at 50%, I mean, I'm sorry, a 50% match, and she currently has it at 4%.
So I'm just not sure what we should be doing to try to get the most amount possible and just trying to figure out ways to.
Yeah, have you guys kind of done a timeline, Brian, to say, hey, if she does pause, cause I would encourage you guys to pause for a period of time while you're saving, just to increase the cashflow, like what you mentioned. Do you know how long it would take you guys to save up a down payment if you guys paused all retirement and through all the extra money you guys have per month?
It's probably gonna be a couple of years. Currently, we have 6,000 down payment and we have 5,000 in a car fund and I guess, if need be, we can combine them. But yeah, to get a good down payment, especially in this area, it's gonna take a couple of years, at least.
How old are you?
I am 31 and my wife's birthday is actually today and she is not gonna say.
So if you started saving for retirement at 15% of your household income, beginning at age 33, you would retire a multimillionaire.
Okay. And so if you take two years off and save up a down payment and then you start. The trick is don't take two years off and then keep spending like you're in Congress. You don't need to be going out to eat. We're saving for a house.
We don't need to be going on vacation. We're saving for a house. We're saving for a house. We're sacrificing the match. We're sacrificing the compound interest.
We're sacrificing our investments to get a house. So, by God, let's get the house. Don't screw around the edges of this. You see what I'm saying? You got to play through for this to make sense.
If you just stop retirement and then you lollygag along for five years, this is not good.
Okay. So you're thinking somewhere in the range of one to three years. Yes.
Three years will be the max. I would be unplugged. And so you got to set yourself a goal and say, how much have we got to save a month to be there? And what have we got to do to make that happen?
Okay. And that may be working extra. That may be cutting other things or maybe other things involved. But you got to set this as a detailed thing. Because the danger of some of the stuff that we teach is, if you don't do it all, it'll leave you hanging.
Because we tell you to stop retirement and get out of debt. But if you don't go, get out of debt, and you never start retirement again. In your case, you've got your emergency fund. I'm trying to, I'm going to really enhance this 3B because this is an expensive area. I need some down payment money.
And Brian too, we, for first-time homebuyers, because you said you're renting, we say anywhere from five to 10% for a down payment. So be looking on that side so that you guys can press play back into retirement. Yeah. And then you're on baby steps four, five, and six. And then you're throwing extra money that you guys have at the house.
But yeah.
We love 20% down because you avoid PMI. But for first-time homebuyer getting out, Rachel's right. Let's get the deal done.
Yeah.
And, you know, five, 10% down, something like that. You're going to have some PMI, but get her done and then get that retirement going and then get that mortgage paid down and get rid of that PMI. That'd be your next thing. Arthur's in Richmond, Virginia. Hey, Arthur, how are you?
I'm good. How are you guys doing?
Better than we deserve. What's up?
So I had a question. I've seen you guys give some career advice. I want to ask you, I am in a job right now, and I don't think my boss is very good at doing his boss job. And so I'm wondering, I really have one main question is, how do I, when do I know how bad I have to get before I leave? And then also, if you're doing things that I know aren't useful to the people under him, including myself, when do I, and things that I just think are wrong, when do I, when would I go to his boss and kind of report things?
I don't want to obviously stir the pot and just like start fights at work with his boss about it or cause problems at work. But I just don't know, like, when is the right time to go to his boss about things that he's doing or lack of or not doing? And when would I know it's just time to move on and go to a different company?
Arthur, is it any of it moral issues, or is it more just leadership style? Like he's not engaged where he should be and he's not communicating. Is it more of those kinds of attributes, or is there stuff going on that you're like, that's flat out, wrong, borderline, immoral?
So leadership style, I can get over, but, like one is competency in leadership. Like I'm a salesperson, I've been number one in my company for the past five months and some of the advice he gives me, I'm just like, yeah, I would never do that. Like, I don't, I don't understand where you're getting this advice and I don't believe he has the experience to back up his, like his, role as also a teaching manager in sales.
How long have you been there? Five months?
I've been there about six months.
How old are you?
I'm 26.
How old is he?
Oh, gosh, like 50 something.
Okay. So what do you think? the probability that you, talking to his boss, is going to fix all this?
Um, I don't know. I, I don't know. His boss does ask me questions about him and I'll give him honest feedback. I don't know what it's going to change. Honestly, I really don't.
Well, I mean, there's two possibilities. One is realistic. One is not. One possibility is they move him on. They fire him because he kind of can't do his job.
And their number one sales guy is talking to leadership about that. Okay. Um, that, that's a possibility, that's reasonable. The possibility that this 55 year old guy who is not competent suddenly becomes competent because you talk to his boss is precisely zero.
Okay.
Think about it. They can't train you up on the things he's doing in a short period of time. These are long pattern things that have to be fixed.
So you're, you're either going to endure him while he's growing, which is really doubtful, or he's going to be removed, or you're going to be labeled and you'll be gone. Right. So then, I'm worried about, well, I wouldn't be worried about it. You're going to quit anyway. So what's it matter?
So that's, I guess, the other question, then, in terms of quitting, um, like, so I don't know, like. it's good money and I'm making good money and I'm, I'm happy in that sense, but it's just, it's a mess all the time with, like, you know, management. So I don't know. I don't know what, what point I should leave is. I'm not growing personally, except things I learned on my own, but I'm not learning from the company anymore.
So I don't know when I would, I would have,
I would have something else in place, Arthur, before you go in and just quit, though, right? Cause there's sales jobs everywhere. If you're a great salesperson, you can find a lot of things to sale and find good culture and other companies. It doesn't sound like it's a great culture.
I think you've lost faith in the entire organization, not just this one guy. And it's probably time for you to go get something else.
Which, thankfully your, your skillset is very broad, right? Arthur's. I think you could kill it a lot of places, but go get something else.
And then be aware that you might be 26.
. And after six months, you don't know it all. That's possible too.
Yes. I thought about that too. Arthur, a little humility. Just remember that.
This is the Ramsey show.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one, bestselling author, co-host of the smart money, happy hour. And my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.
Dylan is with us in Miami. Hi Dylan. Welcome to the Ramsey show.
Hey guys. Thanks for having me. I am 22 years old and I just graduated undergrad and got married the next day. My wife and I don't have any debt, but two weeks after our wedding, my mother passed away.
Gosh, I'm sorry, Dylan. Was that unexpected?
So yes and no. Yes. And the fact that she declined so quickly, she died at 61.. So she left us, um, her IRA, which has about 300,000 in it. And then the main reason I'm calling is because, um, the house that she left has $60,000 left on it.
And I'm just wondering, should I, what I'm planning to do is rent it out and have my renters pay the mortgage, but I also have the life insurance, which is, I got about 90,000 left on that. Just kind of sitting in my bank account. Should I just go ahead and pay the mortgage off completely? And then have that passive income? or, or what would you guys do?
Wow. I'm so sorry.
That's completely tough. Two weeks after you're married, to make all these decisions. I wish we could, I wish we could slow down. Okay. Here's the thoughts that pop into my head.
Okay. Number one, uh, renting a property as a landlord is not passive income. That's humorous. Uh, that's crap from tick talk. Okay.
Uh, because there's nothing passive about dealing with renters.
I've got a bunch of them. Uh, I have been, I am planning to hire a property.
Doesn't matter. It's not passive. This is very active. You, you have a hassle factor in your life called renter. Okay.
You'll be renting your mom's home and they're going to be in the home.
You probably grew up in, right? Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's weird.
Emotionally. It's hard. Okay. So that, that's the number one thing. So, um,
can this be done? Yes, it can be done. Uh, you're 22,, you're brand new married. In my opinion, the last thing you need is the hassle of a rental property. Um, but if you're going to keep this and give that a try, uh, you should pay it off.
Okay. Okay. And, uh, cause that will lower the hassle. You won't have a payment anyway. And so take, it'll take the insurance money out of the checking account and pay the mortgage off.
I normally wouldn't like to make that decision on that property that quickly, but I will tell you, like the current, the rate, the home Rachel grew up in is now in my rental portfolio. We kept it. It is weird. I haven't lived in that house in 20 years. It is weird to go over to that house with other people's crap in it still emotionally.
And I'm, I landlord a bunch of property and I grew up in the real estate business. So I've got a huge advantage over you and I'm old. I've done this a lot. Okay. You're 22..
This is your first property. I'm warning you that the first time that they screw around with the house you grew up in, they being the tenant, uh, it's going to be emotional for you. Just be ready for that. Okay. No one, it's never going to be the same.
It's never going to smell the same in there. Okay. Uh, and so all of that now, so, if you want to get a professional property manager,
that's great. Uh, are you local Dylan? where the house is? Are you guys close?
I'm not, I'm about, I'm in Miami. The house is in central Florida.
That's not too bad. I, I, I don't like long distance landlording either. So I, I'm going to tell you that it, uh, with all the emotions, if we had a little bit of time to digest all of this, I might just sell it. But that's even a harsher thing than letting a renter be in it. So I, it's not an automatic thing that at 22 years old, two weeks after you're married, you ought to be a landlord.
That's not an automatic thing. Okay. So it's an automatic thing you probably shouldn't do. actually. Uh, just in terms of quality of life for you, but it's thrown in your lap.
and here we are. So if you want to try it, just be forewarned that this is not, it's not passive. Uh, you're going to have some emotions around other people and being in your house, no pets. I love pets. One of my favorite things on the planet is my little dog, but no pets, not in my rental properties.
Okay. We call them $10,000 cats. They devalue your house $10,000 when they put the cat in there. Okay. And so, sorry, that's the way that works.
So this is an experienced landlord talking to you. Dylan, for you and your wife, where are you guys?
at financially? I know you said you have no debts. Um, you obviously have this $300,000 IRA from your mom. Uh, are you, do you and your wife, do y'all rent? Do you own a home?
Where are you guys at?
Yeah, we're renting. We're, we're just kind of getting started. financially. Our combined income is probably around 70 or 80.. Okay.
I would sell this house and buy you a house. I know. How much.
is that? How much would the house, how much is the house worth? Do you know? Right now it's probably.
worth two, 50, maybe 300 tops. I would sell this house and buy you a house. And when I say that,
out loud, two weeks after you got married, your mom dies. That's very harsh for me to say that. Yeah. It's hard for you to even hear that and think about that. But five years from today, you having, this is a rental property, versus you and your new wife having a new home to live in that that's a much better, wiser decision.
And, um, I, you know, I'm, I know I'm asking a lot for you to process of a lot of emotion. And you don't have to make this decision today, Dylan. And you don't have to do it cause I should do it, but you know, give yourself some.
time and kind of just, you know, and maybe you try the renting thing for a year and I would still pay it off. And maybe you look up in a year and you and your wife, like, man, we want to get settled somewhere. You have a great asset that your mom left you, which is such a gift. And you can use that gift to continue her. Like I say, I mean that, what a beautiful thing that she, you know, has for you guys.
So, um, maybe it's not right now, but maybe you look up in six months and think, okay, we can make, we can make this decision. But for you and your family now going forward, you and your wife, um, you can really use this to jumpstart you guys. If this house had no emotion.
tied to it, if it was, if she had it as a rental property, you would have sold it already in your mind. You wouldn't, you wouldn't, I'm going to buy me and my bride a new house. You wouldn't be.
going, I'm going to rent and keep this as a rental property. And let me say this, this may not be Dylan's case real quick, but the idea of having real estate. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. People want a rental property.
I mean, the idea of having a rental property two hours away and be renting yourself. Yeah, no, I agree. But I'm just saying, I know Dylan, I mean, I, if I can get into a 22 year old's head, what the, the kind of content that's out there and what people are saying about, about personal finance, I'll tell you, you've got to have a rental house. Yeah. But it's a very appealing thing, right.
To have this quote unquote, active income, not passive, but so, so there's a, I, I get where you're at, Dylan, but I think what you have to realize is when you set you and your wife up, really well, then in 10 years you could get into this if you.
want. All the rentals you want. Yeah. Yeah. And you'll be a millionaire and you'll have a paid for home for you and your new bride.
The impact on your marriage is positive. The impact on your health is positive. The impact on your finances is positive. I just, man, I'm sorry. Sorry, you're having to make these decisions, but that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes, sir.
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slash Ramsey. Why refi is not licensed by the California Department of Financial Protection and Innovation. Why refi is not authorized by the New York State Department of Financial Services to service any New York loans. Funding may not be available in all states.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Hi, coming up is Jackson, Michigan. Mike's on the line.
Hey, Mike, how are you? Good, Dean. How about you? Better than we deserve, sir. How can we help?
Quick question for you. I am retired. We are retired and we have no debt and we're purchasing a new car. If we could pay cash for the new car, if we could get a financing deal and we can invest that same amount of money in CDs over that same period of time, what's your recommendation?
Pay cash for the car. Pay cash for the car or don't buy it. Okay. Yeah. Okay.
Here's the thing. How much, how much, what's your net worth? About 2.5 million. Yeah. You didn't get that by playing games like this.
You know, you got this by saving money and investing money. Right. But you didn't borrow on a car and invest the difference. No, what I was talking about is, I know what you're talking about, but I mean, my point is, is you steadily invested over a long period of time to get 2.5 million. You did not borrow money and invest borrowed money to become a multimillionaire, did you?
Correct. Correct. And now you're going back on all your old ways. Don't do it. Go, stick with the plan that got you here.
You're incredible, man. Congratulations. Thank you. I wish I would.
have found you a lot earlier. It would have made the path a little bit easier, but I enjoy your.
show. I don't think it's ever easy, but you, you scored touchdown in the Superbowl as far as I'm.
concerned, my man. Well done. Thank you. Worked hard to get there. Thank you very much.
That's.
so cool. You know, it's funny that, Rachel, when you start paying attention to money and obviously that's one of the things that's required to end up with $2.5 million. I kind of thought he was going to tell me that, by the way. Yeah. Kind of felt that, you know, he's just like, hey, but people, just, you're, they're thinking about money, not in a negative way, not in a greedy way.
Not, I'm obsessed with money, but instead of just, you know, it's like people that drive and pay attention when they're driving and the ones that drive and don't pay attention when they're driving. And that's what they do with their money. They don't pay attention, or they do. And the ones that do pay attention. If you just think about it, even though he was getting ready to do a dumb thing, but I mean, he's a guy that thinks about it.
That's why he won. Yeah. It's why he won. And,
and I think this is where people can overthink something and take the math of something and think, okay, well, I can kind of beat the system here, because we hear that all the time, right? Paying off your house or even debt, you know, people use debt and want to keep debt around because, like, well, if I invested that amount of money, instead of paying it off, I would make more. And you know what I mean? Like, they start to, they start to overthink it, where I'm always like, oh, my gosh, you have to like untangle it. And almost in a sense, remember what brought you here?
Yes. And what is the emotion that you have when you're not attached to debt? What, how do you feel? And that behavior part, I feel like some people, you know, jump, but I, but I appreciated his question, because I mean, I think there are people, naturally that are like, I want to do well with money. What's my, what's the quickest path from point A to point B?
Exactly. Exactly. You're.
exactly right. And so sometimes what can happen is, is you try to fix something with the math and you forget the heart. That's right. You know, use only your brain and not your heart, because your heart measures risk and your head does math. And so, if you're, if you, you know, oh, I worked so hard to be debt free.
And then all of a sudden you forget and go back into debt on a car. So, so absurd when you think about it. Right. But, but at least he's on task and he's thinking about it. He's a, a person that considers these things and is asking questions.
Yeah, absolutely. I'm still curious. Yeah. Still curious. Yep.
Two and a half million dollars in. Well done, sir. Well done. I'm proud of you. Stephen is in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Hi, Stephen. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?
Good. Yeah. I had a question.
for you. I'm well-versed in your program. I'm 52 and I've got three boys. One is a junior in college who's going to be a junior. The other one is going to be a freshman in college and the other one's just going into high school.
So he's not far off from college either. My wife and I have made the decision to try to pay their tuitions in full. Good. And we've got, yeah, we've got good 529 programs, but they're just not going to cover all of it. So we're trying to make up some ground in a fairly short period of time.
And I wanted to see what your thoughts are on basically moving the principal that we've paid into our Roth retirement accounts and moving that over to the 529.
. It's about 110,000.. That would basically kind of get the deal done. And I ran, you know, we ran the hypotheticals. I'm still going to have about $2.2 million when it comes to retirement time, which is more than enough for our lifestyle.
So just wanted to get your thoughts on.
that.
How much money is in your retirement now?
About 900,000.
. Okay. And you don't have any other.
money?
I've got our emergency fund. When you're saying pay in full, Stephen, you mean just like.
semester by semester, right?
Correct. For all three boys, for all four years. What's your?
household income?
$150,000.
. Okay.
Go ahead. Well, I just want to make sure, Stephen, that, yeah, you're, I mean, you guys will pay each semester when the semester comes. You're not looking...
How much is in the 529?
Let's see. There's about 110,000 in there now.
Okay. And what's the total budget for the kids to go to school, the tuitions?
They're about, let's see,
about 45 a year, or yeah, about 45 a year for each kid.
That includes dorm and everything. Yeah, that's everything. So you weren't talking about just tuition. You're covering everything. Correct.
Okay. And so you got 80 a year right now.
Correct. And you got 110 in there. So you got a year's worth. You don't have enough, even if you.
move the Roth.
Well, no, so we can get out. We'll continue to save for our youngest. So we will basically, you know, fund that difference. Yeah, but you don't have enough.
even if you move the Roth because you're burning 80 a year for the next two years. That's 160.. And after that, you're burning another 80 on here. No, only two are in college. Only two.
I know, two are in college now. 40 each, right?
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 40 each. Yeah. So, 80k per year.
And you got a freshman and you got a junior. So for the next two years, that's 160..
You only got 210.
. Well, we'll cash flow some of it. So yeah, the math isn't.
apples to apples. You're not going to get there. You're not going to get there.
Trying to think. So, your freshman, when your freshman graduates, will you have another, will you have two in school ever again? Or is the one going to leave?
about the time the other one comes in? No, the one leaves as soon as the other one comes in.
Yeah. Okay. So you're going to be, once you get past this two years, you're at a 40 a year burn rate, give or take. Correct. Correct.
And that doesn't count them getting a job, which they need to do. And applying for scholarships, which they need to do. Right.
I just, it just goes against everything. I am to start cashing out retirement for college. I'm certainly not going to borrow to do it. So I do that before I'd borrow. And by the way, you can't roll a Roth into a 529..
You can just cash it out.
Correct. Yeah. So it's not, you said I'll put it in the 529.. You can't, but you can just take it out and spend it. And I wouldn't do that until I'd emptied the 529..
I'd let it sit there and grow, grow additional growth before you move it tax-free. Right. And so you've got, I'm going to try to make it two more years and get that, get the first one out of school and then get down to the 40 burn rate. If you got down to the 40 burn rate with this money, that'll get, no, that just makes it one year.
Yeah. It's interesting to me. It's the, you know, it's, it, it rubs me the wrong way. Cause.
it's kind of against the principle of borrowing. It's against everything I believe. Yeah. I just, I'm going to do everything I can to not do it. So, so here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to cashflow like a bandit and, and I'm going to put kids to work and I'm going to go for scholarships and try to not touch this. If you do touch it, make it the last thing you do and you allow it to sit there and grow until then. So maybe only in the fourth or fifth year, or whatever else, what else can we sell? Do we have any other assets? Do we have anything we can do?
Cause this hundred thousand is worth millions if you'll leave it alone and not take it out of there. What's your, what it's going to cost you and miss is just ridiculous, because you're getting tax-free growth on it. I hate to touch it. I really hate to touch it. So it'd be the very last thing I'd do.
This is the Ramsey show.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality. Number one, bestselling author, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey. solutions on the debt-free stage. Ben and Angela are with us. Hey guys, how are you?
Hello, Dave. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're from Kennewick, Washington. Whoa.
It's a bit of a trip. Yeah. That's the sane side of the state.
You know what? Most of Washington is sane. There's a few spots, though, that offset it. Yeah. A lot of states have that disease nowadays.
Welcome. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you paid off? So $436,959.. Way to go.
How long did that take? About six years, one month. Love it. And your range of income during that six years. in one month?
We started at about 140 and took a quick dip for when the Lord blessed me with a job loss and then bumped our all the way up to a little over 300.
. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a registered nurse. Of course. And I help people get mortgages that are 15-year fixed rates.
Very good. I do. mortgages for a living. Very good. So I'm going to guess the high amount, 437, in six years maybe you paid off your house.
We did. I love it. Weird people. Our kids have told us we're weird for years, but now we officially are. Now it's been declared on national radio.
Oh man, a mortgage broker with a paid-for house. That's so crazy. I love it. Way to go. Congratulations, y'all.
How does it feel to have no payments? You know, it feels really good, knowing that's one less stress in our life, but we still live below our means and we have goals, but we're not certain what we're going to spend money on here forward. We're just kind of like, okay, what's the next goal? But yeah, we are very thankful to where we're at. Six years of focus.
and now we're like, wow, what do we do with all this? And so we started our next thing fund. We have so many things that we want to do, we couldn't decide. So we just started piling it up in every dollar under our next thing fund, and I'm sure we'll figure it out pretty quick. So I like that.
That's so fun, you guys. So you have kids? We have four. Okay. What are their ages?
27 is Kylie, Jacob is 25, Hannah is 22 and Abby is 17.
. Okay. So most in their twenties. And what do they, what do they think of mom and dad? You know, they've been our greatest supporters through all of this.
And I think it was our goal all along to make sure our kids knew what that, that journey was like, and hopefully they became smart with their money as well. So, very good. You guys are great examples. Thank you. Good modeling.
Good modeling. Rachel always says more is caught than taught. Yeah. Very good. So what starts you guys on this journey?
Six years ago, doing this Ramsey stuff. So, you know, April tax time, we sat down and we had our, probably our biggest tax bill we'd ever seen. And we were sitting chatting and we're like, we also made more than we had ever made in our working careers. And we're just like, wow, how do we make so much money? Oh, so much money, the IRS.
And we felt like we were still living. paycheck to paycheck. Yeah. We were one expense away from a disaster. I think that's how we could sum it up.
Wow. Yeah. And how long ago was that? Was that? six years?
That was six years, one month. Yeah. We, I had heard of Dave, you know, prior to that. And, and, you know, some of it sounded pretty cool, but I thought I was smarter. So, you know, mortgage guy.
So, you know, but, you know, we just, we'd had our, you know, I had it moment. And we also had a situation. How did you get connected with us? after that? I had a coworker actually that had turned me on to you.
I read the book and listened to the podcast quite a bit. And we chatted about it, you know, probably four or five years earlier than that. And we kind of did, I don't know what you call it, Dave-ish, but we did, Dave a little bit.
But once we had that, you know, I had it moment, it was, it was all game on. It was just, you know. Amazing, you guys. Congratulations. He decides we're going to do this stuff.
Angela, what'd you say? You know, we talked about it. initially. I was like, I don't know if we're ever going to dig out from this mess. But we started, and I think what kept us going in the driving force was paying off the small debts and seeing them go away.
And so it just kept us in that momentum. And we knew at that point that we'd get there. Wasn't easy. A lot of struggles along the way, but we made it. And so we're very thankful for that.
Wow. So what was all the other debt? Part of it was the mortgage. I guess a big chunk of it. Yeah.
So we had two cars and an RV for 61, six credit cards at 39,000, a big honking $78,000 student loan. That was mine. The IRS debt that we chatted about 401k loan and about 190 for the snowball. And then it took us about three and a half years for that. And then we had about a five or six year plan on the mortgage, but the last two years have been super good for, for my business.
And so we, we accelerated. Yeah. And, and now we're sitting, you know, with no mortgage payment, and my business is extremely slow. So, um, and, and I would probably be freaking out right about now and thinking about, you know, what the future would, uh, would bring for us, but with no mortgage, you know, I can,
don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about a lot on, uh, Dr. John's alone.
He talks about it too, that even when you own debt psychologically, like your mind knows, it's not because someone else has control over a part of your life. And there is this deep sense of peace when no one has a say over your life, you know, you truly are being able to control that. Did you guys feel that? I know, I'm sure, with the consumer debt, when that one 90 was gone at the consumer debt. And then did you feel it again with the mortgage when you paid it off?
I'd say so.
Absolutely. I mean, we had refinanced the house and done so many home equity loans that I'm, I swear, our mortgage probably contained a pizza from college, um, or something like that. Some shoes from Sears, you know, when they were still around. So, you know, I, I've been in debt since I was 18 years old, when, when I bought my first stereo for in college, you know, at a little, little mom pop store where you had to go in and pay cash for your payment once a month, you know?
So, um, so, it's just, so. it's an ultimate feeling for you to feel like I've never experienced it.
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. You ever go back? Never, never, never.
That's obvious. Yeah. Not a chance. Not once you've done what you guys have done. This is impressive.
Well done. Thank you so much. What do you guys tell people? The key to getting out of debt is, um, we have a saying, it's the three C's communication, commitment, and compromise. And it's really the same as keys to being married.
for 25 years. We celebrated our anniversary three days after we paid off our mortgage. So that was a killer celebration, but communication, the constant, the budget meetings that we had, we'd never done anything like that. And it really just opened up a ton, you know, commitment, you know, commitment to each other, commitment to the plan, you know, just, you're just, you know, committing to it. And there's a whole lot of compromise, you know, when it comes to these different things, either wanting to spend money or not, wanting to spend many different priorities.
Um, especially after we hit baby step, uh, four or five and six, figuring out, you know, how, how fast to go after that, uh, mortgage and still live. So this is the perfect time for you guys in the mortgage business, because it's tough out there. It is absolutely perfect timing for y'all to be free. Congratulations. So well done.
Hey, we got a copy of total money make-over for you and the live and give bundle. You can give that away and help somebody get started. the baby steps millionaires book, which is the latest number one. And that's the next chapter in your story, for sure. And of course, the, uh, financial peace university, one-year membership.
And again, you can go through it, give it away. However, you want to do with this stuff. It's our gift to you to say, thank you for making the trip here and to say, congratulations. We're proud of you. Thank you so much.
Very well done, Ben and Angela from the state of Washington. They did it house and everything 437,000 paid off in six years in one month, making one, 40 to 300. count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.
We're debt-free.
I love it. I love it. I love it. So fun. Way to go, guys.
This is the Ramsey show.
Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. Jake's in.
Canada. Hi Jake. How are you?
Hey, Dave, a pleasure to talk to you. I had never thought I'd be able to actually communicate with you, but it's a blessing. Well, we're honored. How can we help you?
So a little bit of a backstory. I got married at a pretty young age. So, you know, life was good. You know, we're doing the five baby steps. We managed to pay off a lot of debt and then got about three to six months of an emergency fund sitting.
And so, a year and a half ago, we were a little baby boy. And so now, you know, our marriage started getting really rocky. We had a hard time. And so now my wife, she's saying how, like, she doesn't want to be together anymore. She doesn't love me anymore.
She's talking to somebody else, like in the middle of the night, I'll hear her on the phone with another person. And I just don't know what to do with that. And she wants to basically, like, live at home, still, like in the same house and so that she could raise our son. But it's like, it's a very, like, it's a very difficult place for me to be in. So I just need some advice on that.
I'm sorry.
How old are you? 24.. Okay. Dude, you don't deserve this. No, it's, uh, I mean, it's, I mean, it takes two to break a relationship, right?
I'm not blaming her on it all a hundred percent, but it's like, I wanted to make things work. We were seeing a marriage counselor and everything. And for a while there, I thought things were going good. And then, about three weeks ago, she said she was done. Like, she was completely done.
And then, like a couple of days later, she was talking to somebody else already. So it's a tough situation. And how old is the baby? He's a year and a half. Oh, Jake,
I'm so sorry.
Yeah. I mean, what do you do? Well, yeah. I mean, in this case, I mean, if she's like, I mean, in a sense, having an emotional affair and she's, you know, talking to people and all that, I'm like, she's breaking her vows, um, that she made with you and choosing not to walk down a path that you guys can have healing and move past this. And so, so sure.
No one's perfect in a marriage. Um, but she's making these decisions consciously to, to go against everything that you guys had in your marriage. And so, yeah, I mean, what they've said earlier, but I'm like, at that point, like she doesn't, she doesn't get a lot of votes right now in your life, in my opinion.
Yeah. So let me back up and just address your initial question. Okay. Um, if you guys can work this out and be married and, with a marriage counselor, walk through this, this patch, and she can set the phone down and devote her life to you. You can set your issues down and devote your life to her.
That's great. And I hope that's what can happen. If the, if she actually gets once a divorce, you can't stop her. It's her. You can't make other people do things.
I can't make my wife do anything. Believe me, we've been married 40 years. I can't make her do anything. And she really can't make me do anything either. in all fairness.
Okay. We all make decisions as individual adults. Okay. So you can't, you can't make people do what you want to do, but what you can decide is what's right for you based on the decisions they're making. And, um, and you know, when you say out loud, we're going to get a divorce and live in the same house and be roommates, that that's just strange, weird, and dumb.
You know, when you say that out loud, that it is all of those.
things. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like it's, it's heartbreaking.
Not even, not even a possibility.
Okay. If we're going to go through a divorce, that means we're not going to be married and we're going to have separate lives. No, we're not living in the same house. That's asinine.
Right. So she doesn't want to leave, Jake. Is that like, he said? she wants to stay in the house. She wants to be in the house with you, or she just wants the house.
No, she wants to, because she.
doesn't have a degree in anything. And, uh, for her to right now, like the way the market is right now, for even renting a home would be super hard for her. So she basically wants to just live there and like, so, like, she does not want to go back to work. So that's because she wants to raise her son, which, like it, it would be better for him. I agree.
No, it wouldn't. No, no, it wouldn't.
He does not need to be raised by divorced parents living in the same house together. That's so freaking weird. It's psychologically damaging to your son. No,
yeah, no, that's not better for your son. It sounds this poor girl. She's so screwed up.
I don't want to work.
and earn money, but I don't want to be married. Well, darling, you can't get to choose one of the other. It's not the way this is going to work out. So yeah, I think, if we're going to get a divorce, that she's going to have to go get an apartment. You guys are gonna sell the house and you're going to go get an apartment.
Okay. No, you're not going to live together. I mean, does that make, I mean, you knew that, right? Yeah, I did. And I just, I just, like,
I didn't want to be the guy to, just like, decide something, you know, and or to not work out in.
the end. That's why I think, if you guys staying in the same house involves healing your marriage, I'm all for it. Yeah, but not work out in the, there is nothing where you divorce and live in the same house together. that works out in the end. You're a highly unattractive single guy at this point that you live in a house with your ex.
Cause it says it has a big arrow above your head that says stupid. Okay. No, really? That would not, you don't want to do this. You don't want to do.
this. I know you don't know, but no, no, no, no. And he seems like such a kind person. So, to have the conversation with her, Jake, is that she's doing this. Like.
that's my thing. You're not the one putting her out on the street and not letting her be home with her child. She's making decisions about her life that is now choosing to isolate herself because she's chosen to go against her vows to her husband. So like, yeah. And yeah.
And you're probably not perfect. I'm not saying that, but like, man, it is, you reap what you sow. And there's a level of consequences that she has to face, because she's making big girl decisions and now she's about to get some big girl results. And she's got to deal with that. Like that's, it's unfair to you to be the brunt of all of it.
And she calls me mean. That was very kind. That was very kind.
But man, it's just unfair to you, Jake. Like I feel for you. Cause you're a kind person. Even.
the way you're asking the question, you're so nice. I'm not sure. We're pretty sure. you're not perfect, but you are a nice guy and you don't deserve this. So no, we're going to set up a normal process that says you have a future away from her.
If she doesn't want to be with you, she has a future away from you. because she doesn't want to be with you. We can't, and then you can move on with your life and she can move on with her life. And we've got this connection with this one and a half year old. And this is all the caveat that for some.
reason, if there's an issue that she's running from the marriage to all these other relationships that you guys, in counseling and therapy, can work through and build a stronger marriage, that's our number one, right? Number one is that you guys can heal this over time.
But divorced and living in the same house is not on the agenda. Yes. Okay. It's not on the agenda. We're just taking that off the table.
Just not, let's just be real clear, if we hadn't already been.
The way you can look at some of these things. sometimes when you're in a fog on the decision-making folks, whether it's something deeply relational, like that, where your brain just shuts down because the stress level is so high and you really can't see clear. The way you can get clarity when you're overwhelmed with that kind of stuff is just projected out 10 years. Okay. 10 years after moving in with your ex and living in the same house, how's that working out for you?
Yeah. And I think, and he probably knows that, but following through with that decision means confrontation with her, making her move or he's moving. And like, do you know what I'm saying? Like, following through with the repercussions of that decision is messy. And so entering into that.
probably sounds exhausting for you, Jake. Not his decision, though, it's hers. I mean,
she made a mistake. Yes, yes. But his decision of not living in the house with her was her divorce,
which is the right decision, by the way. Instantaneous, yeah. It doesn't take 30 seconds to make that one. Three seconds to make that one. Sorry, you're going through this young man.
I hope it works out. Doesn't sound like it's going to. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show where dad is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help folks build wealth, do work that they love and create actual, amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, personality, number one, bestselling author, and my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.. That's 888-825-5225..
Jeff starts off this hour in Indianapolis. Hi, Jeff, how are you?
Doing. great, thanks for taking my call today. Sure, what's up?
So my wife and I are on baby steps four, five, and six. We have three kids, a senior in high school, a sophomore, and an eighth grader. And we have a pretty good retirement built up, and we have about $130,000 left on our mortgage. And we were just wondering, you know, what kind of is our next step?
You know, how do we split? Do we split our money or do we kind of focus it in one of those three areas over the next six years? College is coming at you like.
a freight train, huh? Yes, sir. What do you have to say for that, Jeff?
So we have about 10 for each kid and probably 20 for our oldest. We think that her college will probably be between five and 10, with her guaranteed scholarships to an in-state school. So we could essentially finance that pretty easily. What's your household income?
Usually around $120,000. this year. It'll probably be up to $160,000.. Way to go. Good.
Okay.
Well, it sounds like you're making good college choices in terms of choosing one that's affordable. That's very wise.
I mean, if I woke up in your shoes, the college would be my first concern, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to get all the math. I just want to make sure that that box is checked and I've got a way to do it before I move on to something. In other words, I wouldn't pay extra on the house until I knew I had the kids covered.
Okay. That's why it's five.
instead of six. Yeah. What about throwing more into retirement because the market's on sale?
That'd be tempting, but before I did that, I'd want to take care of my kid's college. 15% of your income going into retirement. That's why it's four. And then five is kid's college.
Now, if you have said, okay, we make 160 and we can cashflow this, if we do this, this, and this, then A, B, and C, then go do A, B, and C and cashflow it. And that's the kid getting scholarships, college choice, kid's going to work while they're in school. None of those are bad things. It's not child abuse.
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